Abandoned Smart - seized alternator. Can I fix it?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июн 2024
- All very HubNut in this one as I do battle with a seized alternator on my Smart Fortwo 450 Cabriolet, and the starter motor gets rather upset...
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#smartcars #alternator #workshop 
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Once the alternator seizes it will happen again if the car sits for a couple of weeks so just fit a new one along with a starter motor.
It's awkward but techniclly simple to lower the engine to gain access.
I lowered mine without the long bolts but I left the nearside rear wheel on and lowered it until it touched the ground and used stands to prop it all up.
You only remove the rear mounting bolts and the whole thing swivels down on the front mounting. Take off the rear wings/bumper 6 screws if I remember and that gives you access to the X frame and the rear mountings. It only swivels down app 4 inches but that is enough to get access to the top of the engine and starter/alternator.
If the car is road legal don't waste it and sort it ASAP rather than the others and you will get the most out of the soft top.
Looking at the state of the subframe I would drop it and do the job properly - little Ms HubNut deserves something reliable and SAFE !
Ian, a little trick comes to mind getting the Smart started. use a strong cordless drill socketed to the crank bolt to help the starter motor spin up the engine. I agree with you, once you've got it running the alternator should completely free off.
I love the thought of sitting in one on a rainy night like I'm in a space capsule.
That three cylinder purring took my tension away.
Here am I floating in my tin can
🎶"....allll across the worlddddd🎵"....🤪😛
@@StevensPaul Hopefully at least. You may just sit in the unit with the lights and fans on until the battery is flat, if you borrewed one of ians cars. LOL
@@rimmersbryggeri glass bubble.
@@StevensPaul I prefer , Im' a Rocket Maaann
That's excellent news on the air conditioning. Mine wasn't working when I got my car. It seems that many don't work as the system won't hold pressure after about eight years. The aluminium heat exchanger is right at the front, low down so it gets hit by all the road salt and dissolves faster than a Disprin. Getting hold of a part was the most expensive portion of the job as no one seemed to have one, but the whole front had to come off to get at it.
The car having such a small interior, it can get quite humid inside even on a cold day, so it is nice to have the AC just to pull out the moisture.
Optional rev-counter and clock was an option on the cabrio - I've owned 2 and both had them. Def recommend biting the bullet and fit a new alternator (£150). Once it has seized once it will keep happening if stands unused for a week or so in damp weather. And, yes, sump plug is an after-market mod and a very good one. As standard oil is sucked out with a pump which can never remove all the sludge from the bottom of the sump. Re the air-con, I'd recommend always keeping it at least on the first setting even with the heater on. This will prevent the a/c pump failing. A/c pumps don't like not being used regularly (all cars, not just Smarts).
The alternator problem looks similar to what happened to my old Golf tdi. It was an easy start with no belt and the alternator could easily be turned by fingers. When loaded by the belt the starter ( heavy duty for a diesel) was defeated. The bearings were locking up under the load of the belt tensioner. The only solution was a new Alternator.
In the smart this is common due to position of the alternator leaving it exposed to splash in wet conditions. If you don’t drive it for a few days after a wet weather drive it is likely to seize. A new alternator isn’t really the solution if you can free off the existing one as the new one will quickly become prone to the same issue.
As a Smart is basically a Merc, you actually don't have to hold the key to start it! You just turn the key for half a second and then the engine turns by itself!
Wow Smart stuff. I do miss mine, the tin worm got mine.
When the wipers disconnect and they all do. Hope you know someone with tiny strong fingers. It can be done via the grille beneath the window
The gauge pods can be added to any of that generation. I added boost gauge to mine.
I can recommend Tayna batteries. Good prices and speedy shipping. I once ordered a battery on a Sunday and it turned up Monday!
If you have issues with moisture inside cars that sit unused for a while, get an old pillowcase (or a new cheap one) and buy some of the silica crystals kitty litter. Empty the kitty littler into the pillowcase, tie it off and put it into one of the footwells.
Essentially what you are making is a giant version of those little silica gel packs, that will keep the air inside the vehicle nice and dry.
A funky little car! Hopefully you can get this one going as a regular on the fleet! Jon Coupland is your man to go to for info!
His smart is slightly better lol.this is scrap 😂
Get yourself the service bolts and drop it into the service pos'n, if anything like the Roady, you'll need to remove the air scoop off the intercooler to allow access to the fixing screws for the starter, obviously make sure you have the battery disconnected as the chance of sparks is high disconnecting both the alternator and the starter, when getting a replacement alternator make sure you get like for like part numbers, there can be issues with some spares that are supposed to be equivalent, good luck and don't give up on it.
Neglect is a hard thing to correct.
It’s a tiny package which makes everything so tight.
You’ll get there.
Blimey I could store about 15 of these in my garage i know they can have lots of issues but I still love the look of them and practical for a guy like me that only does town driving due to my health great video cheers Stephen ✌️✌️
Definitely not backwards. You have confirmed the starter is duff and alternator really needs changing. You have achieved confimation. Given it a run, working air con win win.
You did well with the Dihatsu, 75 and PT. I'll be mega impressed if you get the smart sorted. Plus plenty info from now to swot up on. In-between.
I'm swotting up on smarts thanks to you 😀
Those vacuum oil extractors aren't that bad. Used one on my 2003 Seat Leon TDI for the last 10 years. You don't get sludgy bits with modern oil if it's changed regularly. If there is "sludgy bits" in the sump you're best taking the sump off and cleaning it since a simple oil change isn't going to fix the problem 😊
Most fun car to drive. Tend to drop valves and seized alternator common. Otherwise I love them. Very quick and hardly ever see a petrol station as you'll find.
I drove one of these for the first time ever yesterday. I’m quite a fan now…..fun little motors!!
Hi Ian great video, just got back to London from borth. Had a great time seeing my son in uni.
All the best to you and your family
10:55 MH as David Attenborough: "Here we have a man approaching one bolt". Ha ha ha ha ha--love it!
Absolutely brilliant video Ian miss hubnut ❤👍 at least you know it's the alternator and nothing more serious well done Ian brilliant
Since you have to replace the starter motor anyway, might as well replace the alternator with a new one while you have the motor out.
Yup.
It will be worth all the effort in the end Ian. I have had my Fortwo Cabriolet for 6 years and absolutely love it.
Great to see tinkering on the Smart, shame that progress has halted #becausehubnut but you will get there.
One point to note on the lack of sump plug on the 450 models. If the correct specification of engine oil is used and is changed regularly, there shouldn't be any sludge in the bottom of the sump pan. I know this because my smart fortwo after many years had done over 100K miles when the sump was quite rusty in places and on the verge of becoming porous. Upon removal of the old sump there was not a single piece of sludge or anything that shouldn't have been there. Service your car properly and never scrimp on oil.
Great job Ian 😊👍
I reckon we'll see you yet on a hot June afternoon, roof down,scooting about in the smart.
I love driving a smart car, so chuckable and fun, as a kid who loved Mini's, smart cars are nearly same philosophy
Rev counter and clock were both optional little pods on top of the dash either side of the hazard light switch
You're gonna love changing that starter motor!!
Hope things get sorted
Engine sounds great 👍
Between this and the Fiat content I'm thrilled! Having owned some mid and rear engined cars I'm always amazed by how much corrosion they suffer in the engine bays. This one was probably just sitting a bit too long. My 2013 smart is US spec and so much fun to drive with its manual steering. Yes, the engine compartment can corrode, but the thing will look like new forever because of those plastic body panels!
A very Smart purchase. I hope she gives you both much fun. Love these bodging episodes.
The clock and rev counter were optional extras on the 06 plate. 04 plates they came as standard. My wife owned an 04 in numeric blue. We now have a 61 plate and it's lovely but not as fuel efficient. Great news for you having a sump bolt,that's a fantastic mod
The starter motor sounds like it's an earth issue? May be worth checking that. There is a diode lead which earth's the engine, whilst also being the main charging lead, because, well Smart!!
Giselle & Mrs.Hubnut. Two special girls!
Good luck with changing the starter ..... you'll need lots of it.
yeeeeees a video on the smart fourtwo 450!
First generation Smart FourTwo had diesel engines that could not meet the emission standards in the US. They were only sold in Canada. The problem is that any first generation Smart cannot be serviced in the US. They used a special suction tube down the oil dipstick that is absolutely necessary to change the oil.
Always liked these little motors, I must say.
Also, happy birthday to me! :D
In terms of less is more this car is the ultimate really. Love it. Its a keeper.
Nice try! Get a new alternator and starter. You will thank yourself for it many times. The amount of work to get at it makes getting a new one a "Smart" idea.😊
Progress is still progress. These earlier smarts are definitely classic material and despite the oddball handling, they have a quirky charm. Much like many other micro cars of the past. My Dad has had them for the past decade and loves them. His most recent one is a black convertible and has been loaned to me on many occasions. Because it's black and the roof goes down I affectionately call it "The Wheelie Bin" 😂. I do really love it though 😉.
Hello, I´ve been exactly in the same situation as you. I ended up replacing the starter motor with a refurbished one and a second hand alternator. I just dropped the engine a few inches to have access to the started motor, but you have to also undo the cooling hoses to get to it. A bit of a hassle but can be done with pacience.
I had mine a year. It had 2 starter motors in that time. You can rock them in first to free it up like you can in a manual.
I passed you [in the opposite direction] on Thursday and you were both in Ellie. I was in a big red pickup and there were two other pickups not far in front of me in the same convoy. My brother in a grey one and our fabulous vet in a green/puke-like Mitsubishi. Off to do some ultrasound pregnancy tests. As an aside, I had to have a new alternator on a 2litre diesel machine up at Maenygroes this very morning. A generic replacement not genuine due to the genuine parts being an absolutely ridiculous price from New Holland Industrial.
Will this be Miss Hubnut's car once road worthy again? Those are so easy to drive in town... and they get great fuel economy.
Plan is for it to take miles off the Charade, which gets a lot of use from both of us.
That engine sounds sweet be nice for summer with that roof 👍
another great video has always Ian and Carly miss/mrs hubnut and hublets and hubmutt 👍
It's interesting to see you struggle with different old cars😊❤ the weather is typical April.. i've seen hailstones in May. I think it's because our winters are quite long and wet that we get fed up with it.. don't worry, it's spring😊😂😂 Summer will start when it's ready, we're spoiled with the sushine on TV...😆😅😂😂😂🤣🤣 great to see you moving along with cars.. I understand the constraints of low budget hubnuttery yet you need some comfort in a proper dry shed.. We're not getting any younger, so why struggle? ❤😉😇😊 best wishes P....
At least you know what’s occurring.
I think you need to put that battery on charge, Ian. It won't have been charged since it was made.
I have since put it on charge but it was already over 75%.
Always wear your best jumper when lying on the floor tinkering 😁👍🇮🇪
Some bug-mesh on the wooden slats on the wall would help stop rain driving into the barn ?
Keep going Ian you can sort it out if not today then another day.
Sounds nice
One certainty through the history of car manufacture is that they've got harder and harder to work on.
Compare a Smart with an Issigonis Mini.
Compare the Mini with a 1920's Austin 7.
That tiny little car is fighting you all the way. You will get there I am sure
When the alternator is connected, the tension is too much for the bearings. They - the bearings - must be in need of changing. The starter motor is probably good. Some purchase may be achieved by slackening the belt but, the bearings, if they are worn, will win in the end.
At least the Smart drove and difficult to work on and a bonus the air conditioning works lovely when summer eventually comes
When my car had a knackered alternator getting the jump leads on it got it going that extra bit of voltage and current got it to go.
It looked like there were rust holes in the suspension damper! I'm guessing it has lived on the seafront (been there, done that).
It's nothing to do with the sea you would have to physically drive it in the sea 😂. Its road salt that causes rust. Loads and loads of old cars running around devon and Cornwall and Wales. Worst cars are from bonny Scotland and the North East of England
Good video😀
Mattress = Superb idea , my poor fubar'd knees are full of appreciation
Ian how long did this job actually take ? bearing in mind I sent you a video of me and the apprentice taking out the engine in 41mins to swap out an alternator and starter Just as we all know there is a M6 bolt that always brakes for the plastic scoop that cools the something and there is know way of vw cable tie it back in. If you had brought it to my workshop that would have been a 3 hour job with an new alternator (as I suspect the next video will be change it as the bearings are noisy) xxxx
Thanks hubnut another great video but possibly some over exposure of the mullet😮
I cant believe I'm going to type this.
I want one 😀
Needs a de surface rust.
The earth lead thing is not unusual problem and a simple cheap fix.
You can change the Starter motor without dropping the subframe very far down. A bit of a faf so worth checking all else first.
Was that Jon Couplans orange one you were watching and seeing all the surface rust?
At least you give it a go Ian but the not so smart just obviously didn’t want to go out into that lousy weather
Looks like your winter won’t Let go and neither will our summer let go 👍👍🇦🇺
Thinking about your damp interior: I wonder if there's any mileage in using one of those enclosed tubular heaters used for conservatories and airing cupboards inside the car to heat the interior gently?
You should get the Austin Martin Smarty pants one 😂
It's not too bad really ,Ian there is a way of bump starting them , and it may free it up ..
And yes, the sump is aftermarket, but it's best to have it, and the dash pods became an extra. Everything was extra by the end of the model production. Unfortunately, a tick box a mile long 😁
I don’t think you can bump start an automatic, but nice idea. 👍🏻
@david1976aful There is a way of doing it as it's not a fully automatic ... I just can't remember how , but there is a video on RUclips of a guy doing this
🙏
@david1976aful Dave I've found what I watched . It's on DriveLife RUclips Channel, the secret method to push start a smart car ... 🙏
@@david1976afulDavid , @Drivelife RUclips channel, the secret method to push start a smart 😉 👍
With that placement of the alternator, it is probably seized due to salt and moisture. Bearings probably buggered..
You sure the battery isn't just flat? A few cranks will discharge it pretty quick, and it was running for a while without chargeing?
Ian,
Here's a thought. Now that you've freed it up, the alternator appears to rotate Ok statically. I wonder if part of the problem is that it becomes too stiff for the starter to manage when the magnetic coils are energized?
I mean, the starter may be toast at this point, so it may be moot. But what if you could start and run the engine without the alternator coils being energized, and *then* energize the coils while the engine is already running and the alternator is turning? There's probably a fuse that feeds the alternator coils that you could take out, then put it back in when the engine is running.
There used to be a green and white Smart parked usually by the Memorial Hall in Aberaeron or by the Hive on the Quay. The lady who owned and ran it passed away quite recently. Please replicate the Moose Test for us soon.
Not sure I fancy that to be honest...
@HubNut well it would do better than a first generation Mercedes A-Class...
I remember both the lady ( she used to write a column in the local paper) and that Smart which had been her partners and he travelled quite some distance from up north weekly to visit Aberaeron .
@@HubNut That would make a great video, especially if you were terrified LOL.
The electronics should sort it out nicely. Much more interesting is getting air.. don’t ask me how I know 😉
From my limited experience, once an alternator has seized or partially seized, it is game over, had this on a Toyota and a Proton. Good luck with it though. If you drop the subframe and engine, put it in TWC. No? 😂
Yeah, the bearings in the alternator are bound to be damaged. I'd be amazed if it lasts.
same problem I have had...gave up six months ago ..interested in how you get on.
Give it a bump star around the yard and see 😊
Had the same problem with mine i freed off the alternator best i could and stuck a transit battery on it cos i found the original small battery wasnt strong enough the transit battery swung it over and got it started
My mate sold a smart car and offered to reverse it off his drive as it was tight but the lady refused his kind offer and scraped all the side on his dry stone wall What a shame as the car was immaculate.
Sounds like the starter motor failing was fairly inevitable and not through anything you fid wrong. I think you should invite Jon Coupland's dad through to help. Im sure he'd happily adventure over to Wales with either his bike or trusty 406 for the chance to work on a Smart
Ian, BE CAREFUL ABOUT TURNING THE ENGINE BY HAND AFTER A FAILED START. Because with the key being a flick style it will start at any point,I found this out whilst changing a flat battery. 👍
Good warning. Worried about this, I did start disconnecting the battery before going near it.
Ian, Maybe a push start would be in order. This way you can get it moving and should sort everything out... Unless its automatic!
They can be tow started and they are automatic but they are a manual box with a clutch and basically they change gears for you with actuators.
Get some Lanoguard on the underside of that smart.
Air con ! You are spoiled. Hope it comes in handy in the summer ?. You just love working on alternators 😢
Ian , @DriveLife , RUclips channel , the secret method to push start a Smart .... it may just free it up and save you some work 🤞
Glad to see the ring spanner and penetrating fluid freed it off.
Problem is it's probably washed out any grease that was in there
Have you also checked the other things that are run off that belt? Like the water pump, a tensioner/idler pulley, etc.? It looked like the alternator was loose enough that it shouldn't have completely balked the starter like that, which makes me think something else might be to blame...
Good thinking but with the belt on, I can turn it easily enough by hand.
Don't forget to check for a bad connection to the Starter Motor Solenoid or bad grounds 1st because it did struggle when you tried after replacing the Battery, also with no Alternator maybe the battery is low now.
Good Luck 👍 👍🤞🤞🤞
Yes worth checking, though that battery has barely done any starting yet and the car ran only a few moments so should still be good for now, though I do hope Ian looks after this one with some SMART (ahah!) charger love as he has a habit of letting them go dead which kills them fast. I'd hate to see that when he's splashed on a brand new battery. If you have a fleet of batteries you want to be regularly hooking them up to a smart charger to keep them tip/top, perhaps on a rotating basis each time he visits the lockup.
Have you made sure the main engine to chassis earth lead is ok?
I need a mattress for when I'm working on my car!
Have you not tried a jump pack on as well because with all those starts you might have weakened the battery ? New batteries don’t normally come fully charged? Just a thought ?
Yay…tinkering👍
Have you checked the engine ground cable yet? It's very sluggish without the belt on, there is clearly something wrong.
Sorry Ian , bit I have faith that you'll succeed,,,,,,eventually
Happy Saturday Ian, what are the chances of a multi part European road trip with this smart in the future? Maybe a trip to where swatch was in Switzerland then finishing at the Mercedes museum? Or maybe visiting other smart owners in the UK? Jon coupland with his 450 and 451 jonny Smith with his roadster. I know theres a guy over Birmingham way with a super low mile 450 I apologise I forget his name. Much love as always and i look forward to the next one.
It's a shame things aren't going well for Smarty. Is it possible to push start it to give the alternator a good spin and free it off more? Or does the semi-automatic gearbox not allow push starting.
Apparently you can bump start them.