revolvers can be automatic, where the recoil energy of a round is used to advance the cylinder and cock the hammer, but are typically restricted to semi-automatic firing for practical and legal reasons. see the Mateba 6 Unica and Webley Fosbery.
Magazine = The thing or place ammunition is stored while a weapon is in battery/firing/ready to fire. This broad definition accounts for artillery, ships, tanks and small arms. Note that magazines are not exclusively detachable box magazines, they can also be internal magazines such as in Kar. 98K and M1 Garand rifles. Clip = Convenient vessel for storing and loading ammunition into a magazine.
Oh no, please don't tell me I misspoke and referred to a magazine as clip. My entire video falling apart because of one mistake I didn't catch NOOO! (I'm being a bit hyperbolic, please tell me if I did make that mistake.) Thank you for the information. I'll double check it and make sure its right.
Makes sense. The AR platform is versatile and inexpensive. People will point out "muh AK", but that platforn's "legendary reliability" is largely a myth through testing I've seen.
Automatic revolver does seem like a contradiction in terms, but then you have autorevolvers like the Mateba or Webley-Fosbery, revolver cannons and the ridiculousness that is the Dardick magazine fed revolver...
There is always something one can miss and this plugs a fairly large hole in my malice towards the kellermorph, I'll look into it and in the case I find more info on autogun's in future, I'll include it. However, it still relies on inherent knowledge of the "auto-revolver system" and places all the responsibility on the player/wargamer to have that knowledge themselves. I know warhammer has a high amount of people with some mental challenges, myself included heh, and I believe it would be better to include that distinction within the text itself because it does offer an out and encourages a person to look up "What is a auto revolver system" and be presently surpised by how it works. Not all of us are autistic enough to make a series like my own and pushing all the knowledge needed on the person/wargamer is a bit of a large flaw that is consistent in warhammer itself. Thank you for the comment. -Sol
@@SkittySol all good dont think too many folks outside the antique or "oddball"firearms communities would be familiar it's a rather novel concept though in both of the stated executions adds a lot of complexity to the prototypical "simplistic" design of the average revolver
Single Shot and Semi-Automatic are separate firing modes in the Dark Heresy rpgs, in the later editions Single Shot would give you a +10 to hit but could only hit once, while Semi Auto would be a +0 to hit but could hit once for two degrees of success (20 points) after the first up to the mode's maximum, and for completionist's sake Full Auto would hit on a -10 but could hit once for every degree of success beyond the first (10 points) again up to that separate mode's max.
I knew I was bound to miss something. It scratched at the back of my mind but I couldn't quite put my finger on it, thank you for clearing up the air on that. However, I still feel my criticism of the phrasing is warranted to an extent because, and lord knows I know it, people will screenshot certain pages and argue for hours on end trying to convince me to allow them to do some nonsense in an RPG game. Yes, I am aware I do the exact same thing for this series, however, I am trying to teach and simplify things I've seen cause hiccups for people over my 2-3 years in the warhammer fandom itself. I do try to avoid injecting my personal thoughts when I can but sometimes it is necessary... you'll see it when I remaster the Melta-gun video because it has had a many inconsistent depictions that have tripped people up. Thank you for the comment, and correction in a way. -Sol
Great deep dive into weapons, thoroughly enjoyed that! About naming inconsistency - yeah, it does happen a lot in 40k (pulse/plasma weapons, bolt weapons, force and power devices, etc.). I’d say it’s not only because the franchise is very old, but also because Games Workshop don’t really care about lore coherency. But that aside - yet again, great lore and real life-educative video!
There is at least 1 rapid fire revolver in warhammer. In necromunda there are the ironhead squats (a recent addition added alongside the leagues of votann) who have in their arsenal "Ironhead Stub Guns" (creative I know) which are double barreled pistols with a revolver cylinder. Their stats are identical to other stub guns from necromunda except they have the "rapid fire (1)" (rapid fire in necromunda lets you roll an extra dice that can get you up to 3 total hits per rapid fire dice) special rule. The twin linked special rule does exist in necromunda. Ironhead weapons do not have this rule. Not all stub guns in necromunda are revolvers, mind you. The weapons suffer from the classic nonsense magazine design issue of warhammer. If the weapons were to be made sense of I'm not sure they would count as revolvers. Since the system would require some sort of technomancy loading system that would get the weapons in their own category. Or it just uses a very deceptive magazine.
if i had to guess i'd say it started back with the WWII troops and Garands, they got so used to using actual clips that every feeding device became a clip.
Both bolters and autoguns were originally portrayed as caseless in lore, but spitting huge casings out the side of the gun just looked cooler. That said, I love the idea of autoguns being caseless cause it gives the impression that autoguns, for all their primitive appearance, still have _some_ advancement over modern guns. ...also, my favorite autogun in Darktide hits like a truck lol.
Have you considered that no one in universe knows about guns cause they are like, useless next to lasguns. Other than a sniper rifles an heavy stubber. Like how everyone thinks a AR15 is an M16 and both are machine guns
The entirety of necromunda and rogue trader itself demolishes the useless argument. Regular guns are still present because, like I say in the video, their benefit is being dirt cheap and simple. That and Lasguns, for all their might, still have drawbacks and downsides and though it is the primary weapon for the Imperial guard, you can still see autoguns in use because in the grimdarkness of the far future: Logistics still ultimately decides a conflict. Hell, Vraks saw a tremendous amount of Auto and stub-guns because both sides were mulching each other and recycling, instead of being a benefit, became a necessity as the battlefield changed and altered. Sometimes KISS is the best choice. (Keep it simple, stupid.) Thank you for the comment -Sol
So here's a question. Effective range of weapons, like the bolter, volkite, lasgun and pulse rifle? Cause I can make the assumptions that pulse rifles, volkites and lasguns have a very limited range in atmosphere unless more power is used. but the bolter being roughly a 20mm weapon, the real life 20mm has a range exceeding 5km. Lore wise is there any stated max effective range for these weapons?
The people who designed the game/lore had no idea what they were talking about and said many things that did not make sense. In the decades since, some attempts have been made to make things more reasonable but most things still defy real world logic. there are various ways you could interpret the range of the weapons in tabletop but all of them make the ranges of most guns to be about 1% of what would make sense. Say for example that you eyeball it and say that one inch on the tabletop looks to be about a metre, due to character sizes or something. That would mean the Tau railgun (such as is mounted on the on a Hammerhead) which has a range of 72 inches would come to 72 metres, which is a range where historical re-enactors can comfortably hit man-sized targets with smoothbore muskets. (musket balls can still be lethal at quadruple that range, if they hit). Obviously, the railgun's range should be closer to 7200m than 72m. TL:DR, there will be multiple answers for the effective range of answers, based off rules, lore, or real-world estimates. Pick whatever feels about right to you.
Closest we get are the Dark Heresy line of rpgs, which have the Bolter, Lasgun, and Autogun, being around 100m for their optimal range, with max range being 4x, so about 400m without weapon mods.
Whilst the comments below are lovely, I appreciate people helping out!, I'll have to warn you not to worry all that much and whilst I appreciate KageRyuu6's answer of the RPG books giving them 'effective ranges' Tabletop and RPG rules are notouriously finicky since this is a tabletop wargame/RPG/narrative wargame first and lore second. It is frustrating to say: "Dont worry about it" and even as I look over my previous videos I'll look over everything again and include any information that may relate to that. However, I'll have to rely on that "Dont worry about it" because... good lord it can be a lot of wastewater to sift through. Tabletop can offer an idea, but its made in mind with MINIATURES, not weapons in the lore itself. Its frustating but thats just the GW charm baby! I'll note it down and hopefully I can find something for you when I remaster the Lasgun video.
The G11 is an overcomplicated, hideous abomination and caseless ammo is inherently less manly than throwing brass, not to mention bad at handling overheating and subsequent cookoffs.
Maby the auto stubb has a moter that the triger activates kinda like how a chain gun is kinda like a bolt action with a moter and chain to fire automatic Edit i forgot about auto revolvers they use the recoil to cock the hamer (recoil cocked single action)
revolvers can be automatic, where the recoil energy of a round is used to advance the cylinder and cock the hammer, but are typically restricted to semi-automatic firing for practical and legal reasons. see the Mateba 6 Unica and Webley Fosbery.
Magazine = The thing or place ammunition is stored while a weapon is in battery/firing/ready to fire. This broad definition accounts for artillery, ships, tanks and small arms. Note that magazines are not exclusively detachable box magazines, they can also be internal magazines such as in Kar. 98K and M1 Garand rifles.
Clip = Convenient vessel for storing and loading ammunition into a magazine.
Oh no, please don't tell me I misspoke and referred to a magazine as clip. My entire video falling apart because of one mistake I didn't catch NOOO! (I'm being a bit hyperbolic, please tell me if I did make that mistake.)
Thank you for the information. I'll double check it and make sure its right.
love how the m16 design survived that
Makes sense. The AR platform is versatile and inexpensive. People will point out "muh AK", but that platforn's "legendary reliability" is largely a myth through testing I've seen.
@@varietywiarrior the AR just has better ergos too
Automatic revolver does seem like a contradiction in terms, but then you have autorevolvers like the Mateba or Webley-Fosbery, revolver cannons and the ridiculousness that is the Dardick magazine fed revolver...
I believe the kellermorphs "automatic" revolvers refers to a "auto revolver" system akin to the mateba unica or webley fosberry
Thank you. I was going to mention this
There is always something one can miss and this plugs a fairly large hole in my malice towards the kellermorph, I'll look into it and in the case I find more info on autogun's in future, I'll include it. However, it still relies on inherent knowledge of the "auto-revolver system" and places all the responsibility on the player/wargamer to have that knowledge themselves.
I know warhammer has a high amount of people with some mental challenges, myself included heh, and I believe it would be better to include that distinction within the text itself because it does offer an out and encourages a person to look up "What is a auto revolver system" and be presently surpised by how it works. Not all of us are autistic enough to make a series like my own and pushing all the knowledge needed on the person/wargamer is a bit of a large flaw that is consistent in warhammer itself.
Thank you for the comment.
-Sol
@@SkittySol all good dont think too many folks outside the antique or "oddball"firearms communities would be familiar it's a rather novel concept though in both of the stated executions adds a lot of complexity to the prototypical "simplistic" design of the average revolver
Single Shot and Semi-Automatic are separate firing modes in the Dark Heresy rpgs, in the later editions Single Shot would give you a +10 to hit but could only hit once, while Semi Auto would be a +0 to hit but could hit once for two degrees of success (20 points) after the first up to the mode's maximum, and for completionist's sake Full Auto would hit on a -10 but could hit once for every degree of success beyond the first (10 points) again up to that separate mode's max.
I knew I was bound to miss something. It scratched at the back of my mind but I couldn't quite put my finger on it, thank you for clearing up the air on that. However, I still feel my criticism of the phrasing is warranted to an extent because, and lord knows I know it, people will screenshot certain pages and argue for hours on end trying to convince me to allow them to do some nonsense in an RPG game.
Yes, I am aware I do the exact same thing for this series, however, I am trying to teach and simplify things I've seen cause hiccups for people over my 2-3 years in the warhammer fandom itself. I do try to avoid injecting my personal thoughts when I can but sometimes it is necessary... you'll see it when I remaster the Melta-gun video because it has had a many inconsistent depictions that have tripped people up.
Thank you for the comment, and correction in a way.
-Sol
Give this man more subs!
Fun fact automatic can refer to semi automatic & self loading terms (So double action does sorta if not fully count)
Great deep dive into weapons, thoroughly enjoyed that!
About naming inconsistency - yeah, it does happen a lot in 40k (pulse/plasma weapons, bolt weapons, force and power devices, etc.). I’d say it’s not only because the franchise is very old, but also because Games Workshop don’t really care about lore coherency.
But that aside - yet again, great lore and real life-educative video!
There is at least 1 rapid fire revolver in warhammer. In necromunda there are the ironhead squats (a recent addition added alongside the leagues of votann) who have in their arsenal "Ironhead Stub Guns" (creative I know) which are double barreled pistols with a revolver cylinder. Their stats are identical to other stub guns from necromunda except they have the "rapid fire (1)" (rapid fire in necromunda lets you roll an extra dice that can get you up to 3 total hits per rapid fire dice) special rule. The twin linked special rule does exist in necromunda. Ironhead weapons do not have this rule. Not all stub guns in necromunda are revolvers, mind you.
The weapons suffer from the classic nonsense magazine design issue of warhammer. If the weapons were to be made sense of I'm not sure they would count as revolvers. Since the system would require some sort of technomancy loading system that would get the weapons in their own category. Or it just uses a very deceptive magazine.
wrong information has been spread like wildfire got to love how people use the word clip for both clips and magazines...
if i had to guess i'd say it started back with the WWII troops and Garands, they got so used to using actual clips that every feeding device became a clip.
Both bolters and autoguns were originally portrayed as caseless in lore, but spitting huge casings out the side of the gun just looked cooler. That said, I love the idea of autoguns being caseless cause it gives the impression that autoguns, for all their primitive appearance, still have _some_ advancement over modern guns.
...also, my favorite autogun in Darktide hits like a truck lol.
A very long way of saying that british nerdy game devs are not well versed in firearms.
Which is sad because Britain used to have an awesome Marksman culture.
Every single Brit that I know is very jealous of America's Second Amendment
Warhammer is British and British people don’t know about weapon except for knives, which they know intimately
Have you considered that no one in universe knows about guns cause they are like, useless next to lasguns. Other than a sniper rifles an heavy stubber. Like how everyone thinks a AR15 is an M16 and both are machine guns
The entirety of necromunda and rogue trader itself demolishes the useless argument. Regular guns are still present because, like I say in the video, their benefit is being dirt cheap and simple. That and Lasguns, for all their might, still have drawbacks and downsides and though it is the primary weapon for the Imperial guard, you can still see autoguns in use because in the grimdarkness of the far future: Logistics still ultimately decides a conflict.
Hell, Vraks saw a tremendous amount of Auto and stub-guns because both sides were mulching each other and recycling, instead of being a benefit, became a necessity as the battlefield changed and altered. Sometimes KISS is the best choice. (Keep it simple, stupid.)
Thank you for the comment
-Sol
So here's a question. Effective range of weapons, like the bolter, volkite, lasgun and pulse rifle? Cause I can make the assumptions that pulse rifles, volkites and lasguns have a very limited range in atmosphere unless more power is used. but the bolter being roughly a 20mm weapon, the real life 20mm has a range exceeding 5km. Lore wise is there any stated max effective range for these weapons?
The people who designed the game/lore had no idea what they were talking about and said many things that did not make sense. In the decades since, some attempts have been made to make things more reasonable but most things still defy real world logic. there are various ways you could interpret the range of the weapons in tabletop but all of them make the ranges of most guns to be about 1% of what would make sense.
Say for example that you eyeball it and say that one inch on the tabletop looks to be about a metre, due to character sizes or something. That would mean the Tau railgun (such as is mounted on the on a Hammerhead) which has a range of 72 inches would come to 72 metres, which is a range where historical re-enactors can comfortably hit man-sized targets with smoothbore muskets. (musket balls can still be lethal at quadruple that range, if they hit). Obviously, the railgun's range should be closer to 7200m than 72m.
TL:DR, there will be multiple answers for the effective range of answers, based off rules, lore, or real-world estimates. Pick whatever feels about right to you.
Closest we get are the Dark Heresy line of rpgs, which have the Bolter, Lasgun, and Autogun, being around 100m for their optimal range, with max range being 4x, so about 400m without weapon mods.
20mm? Can we use freedom units for countries that have put men on the moon, please? .75 caliber, I believe.
Whilst the comments below are lovely, I appreciate people helping out!, I'll have to warn you not to worry all that much and whilst I appreciate KageRyuu6's answer of the RPG books giving them 'effective ranges' Tabletop and RPG rules are notouriously finicky since this is a tabletop wargame/RPG/narrative wargame first and lore second. It is frustrating to say: "Dont worry about it" and even as I look over my previous videos I'll look over everything again and include any information that may relate to that.
However, I'll have to rely on that "Dont worry about it" because... good lord it can be a lot of wastewater to sift through. Tabletop can offer an idea, but its made in mind with MINIATURES, not weapons in the lore itself. Its frustating but thats just the GW charm baby! I'll note it down and hopefully I can find something for you when I remaster the Lasgun video.
@@varietywiarrior no, .5 sits at 19.05mm. There is no freedom in the Imperium, also, even US engineers use metric.
The G11 is an overcomplicated, hideous abomination and caseless ammo is inherently less manly than throwing brass, not to mention bad at handling overheating and subsequent cookoffs.
Maby the auto stubb has a moter that the triger activates kinda like how a chain gun is kinda like a bolt action with a moter and chain to fire automatic
Edit i forgot about auto revolvers they use the recoil to cock the hamer (recoil cocked single action)