As for my final answer as I never really said I would say horn strobes are the future and the way to go but in countries like mine Canada bells are superior as people just don’t care about horn strobes and don’t react the same way
Nice video. Just out of curiosity, I played the sound of the bell on my fire alarm speaker, and it just sounded off. I couldn't help but notice that the motor sound could not be heard. when the bell is mounted to the wall, the sound of the motor running resonates in the walls. That just doesn't happen with a speaker or horn, even if it's a speaker playing a bell sound and I feel that that's one of the reasons fire bells have a sense of urgency that nothing can ever recreate. As an American, I've just learned to accept horn strobes as fire alarms. Another problem with the horn strobes is that it's not a standard sound. each brand has their own sound, making it hard to tell what's a fire alarm and what's just a random buzzer. That's not the case with bells. Both bells and horns are great, just in their own ways. It all comes down to how people react to it. It's interesting to see how fire alarm devices vary from country to country.
Southeast US fire alarm tech here. Most of our business is healthcare with hospitals, nursing and rehab facilities, and assisted living facilities. We've been installing the System Sensor chime strobes. They still fulfill the NFPA 72 decibel requirements but with the handy added bonus of not making you bleed from your ears as you walk by them. Check out System Sensor part #: CHSRL. But bells are still definitely installed by the sprinkler guys on the outside of the building, usually right where the riser room is, to indicate water flow to incoming firemen. Oh and I've seen a bell right above a releasing agent panel that we didn't install but got called to relocate, it was just so it could alarm locally. The releasing panel was part of a larger system and triggered the main building FACP.
My primary school had bells and the hospital I work at has bells across the whole building. They are freaking loud but I prefer them to modern U.K. fire alarms.
It’s not always about being as loud as possible, it’s more about sending the message effectively. When I hear a modern horn strobe going off, with the crazy sound it makes, I just want to get away from it as fast as I can. Bells don’t have the same effect on me. Funnily enough, my high school repurposed their fire bells and used them as normal bells to signal when class starts.
@@nics-systems-electric well like you said, bells were everywhere in Canada, so I can see why that would be the case. I also think Hollywood has a bit to do with it too. Ever seen a fire alarm go off on a tv show and it not be a bell?
Here in the US I've only seen mechanical horn strobes/mechanical horn lights, horn strobes, and speaker strobes. Haven't seen and fire bells at least not in action. My elementary had Specturalert advances (Horn strobe don't know model), my middle school had mechanical horn strobes/ mechanical horn lights (4903-9101, and don't know the other one). Then my highschool had speaker strobes (SPSCWL-CLR-ALERT SYSTEM SENSOR, SPSWK-CLR-ALERT SYSTEM SENSOR, SPSWL-CLR-ALERT SYSTEM SENSOR). The only time I see bells are on the outside of building but I've never seen/heard them in action.
With the majority of devices over here in the states being mechanical horns, horn strobes and maybe we're slowly transitioning to speaker strobes where applicable, every now and then I will see bell's being used for sprinkler alarms and for general notification, too. I remember seeing a 10" Potter being used for that purpose. I do want to say this, however. Your results may've proved bells are louder, but as someone else in the comments said you'll need to factor in reverberations, room or hallway size, and some other things. I'm not trying to falsify your conclusion, but the results can vary with certain factors including installation vicinity, and type of device. With that chopped from the block, it is a nice video demonstrating the SPL of bells and horn strobes.
Way back in my day, I preferred bells over horn/strobes and I still do. You are never going to be able to replicate the resonating and vibration gong noise that bells put out with a horn/strobe. And, that resonating vibrating gong noise is apart of the charm of bells. Especially when the bells do code 3.
Most 24V fire alarm bells have their striker driven by a small DC motor, thus knocks a little bit slower but brighter and more "grainy", giving it the distinctive texture of sound different from general-purpose 120V bells, which are typically solenoid-operated and knocks at higher rate, generating harsh, fuzzy and chaotic metallic noise as what an angle grinder cutting through metal pipes would sound like.
Over here we just have bells on the outside on the building, and flush mounted, nonchalant, white speakers on the ceiling, and the bells are always on continuous. The internal speakers are code 3 and always are a low, deep tone. Although, sometimes a general evacuation is called for a fire, that is a rising tone in code 3, followed by "Evacuate now", "Evacuate as directed", or "Emergency"
I think it also depends on which province the system’s installed in, at least here in Ontario horns have always been a bit more common than bells, although Ontario’s building code had a big change in 2014 no longer permitting new systems to install bells and requiring any buildings with more than 1000 occupants at a time to upgrade to speaker strobes that sound like the previous alarms installed
This is a very interesting discussion to me. I'm from the US, and based on my own experiences in school and such, I find horns to be a much more urgent signal than bells. In my elementary school there were bells mounted outside, but they never had much effect on me. Fire alarms used to scare me a lot as a kid, but I was scared of (and later fascinated by) horns, not bells. Having said all that, I think perceived urgency of a signal is very much based on past experience. I recently read that 2003 Canadian study which found that people didn't find the temporal 3 pattern to be urgent (I'd love to know what people think of it now; I certainly think it's urgent), and I was surprised that people thought the continuous bell was more urgent. To me, and I think to many in the US, that sound is a school bell (i.e., signalling a class change), not a fire alarm, although my schools happened to use a square wave tone for that purpose instead. However, the ISO temporal 3 standard specifically states that it makes no stipulations in regard to the signaling device used; it only dictates the pattern of said signal. My point being, why install horns at all? If Canadians in large part are used to bells and find them more urgent, there's really no need to change that unnecessarily. In fact, I can relate to the confusion in fire alarm signals. Again in my elementary school, the electronic horns and the bells were on march-time, and the mechanical horns were on continuous, and as a kid, that confused me at first. That's why I like the idea of universally adopting one pattern, even though some don't find temporal 3 to be urgent. But it's also why I think that if bells, rather than horns, are what will make people react quickly and evacuate, then the bells should stay. And vice versa.
@@J19_vlogger74 I completely agree. I just think authorities shouldn't go around unnecessarily changing signals and creating more confusion just because other places use other signals. As it happens, I'm currently staying in an apartment in Maryland where the fire alarm is a bell on continuous. I don't think it's very urgent-sounding (or loud), but I wonder if it's a legacy system (the building was built in 1970).
The temporal 3 pattern has existed since the turn of the century. I would assume that the NFPA wanted a recognizable tone pattern that would tell everyone that there’s a fire emergency and have no confusion about it. To me, continuous just blows everyone’s eardrums out, and March time always sounded too silly. By now people should understand that a temporal 3 pattern always means fire. That’s why it’s also used in residential smoke alarms and fire alarms on burglar alarm systems.
@@mattdude Exactly how I feel, and as a deaf-blind person that gripe with continuous is double for me. Temporal 3 has those pauses where some communication can be had. I get that continuous is supposed to physically drive people out, but I also think this creates panic rather than an orderly evacuation. Temporal 3 is loud and universally recognizable thanks to smoke alarms as you said, but it also has an almost measured quality to it, if that makes sense. So you don't run away screaming, but you do know there's a report of fire and you need to leave. But beyond that, when people imitate a fire or smoke alarm in the US, it's almost always temporal 3. I think the urgency of that signal is now much more well-established than it was 20 years ago when the Canadian study was done. To be fair, though, the continuous in my current apartment startles but doesn't scare me - the bells just aren't all that loud. But the first time I heard it I was confused as to what the signal meant, and since I'm here I'm obviously a bit of a fire alarm geek. Loud or not, if the bells had sounded temporal 3, the meaning would have been abundantly clear to me.
Calgary Catholic School District has always used EST. Old systems where usually bells. But now we have Horn-Strobes. So I’ve always been around EST Genesis’s/Integrities (with my high school). But I have seen either alarms, just not heard them. But of course given I am an enthusiast now I know what they all sound like so I won’t have a problem knowing whats going on. Great vid!
I think it really depends on the specific Bell and horn in question. an old Edwards fire alarm listed vibrating adaptabel is lethal, and it’s sheer volume borders on unsafe, but a mircom BL6B 6 inch motor bell is barely louder than most fire alarm speakers! As for horns are we talking about a little 1st generation Edwards genesis or are we talking about a vibratone mechanical horn with the volume screw lifted off, I’ve heard techs in the field say horns are louder I’ve heard techs say Bells are louder! I say it really depends on the specifics of that particular device!
I was basing this off electronic horns old-school vibrating horns are equally as effective as bells in my opinion and when I say bells I talk about 10 inch motor or vibrating bells as those are by far the most common
All of my schools I went to(not including college) used wheelock, some I have seen wheel lock as, a special needs school reused a fire alarm bell as a period bell(they upgraded to a tone bell from speaker) that fire alarm bell will stil be used as a fire alarm bell.
How do you not evacuate when you hear a horn strobe? Those things scare the shit out of me and make me want to run out of the building. I hated my high school years as our school had simplex TrueAlert horn strobes that had lots of false alarms, and they made us stay in so we had to listen to those awful things.
@@nics-systems-electric Interesting. I think voice evac speaker systems are best for these kind of situations. Not too loud to be scary, and give direct instructions on what the emergency is to make people evacuate the building.
I think bells are better, because they seem louder and more noticeable. People are unreal that they ignore fire alarms in general, but I think bells would help, with strobes still in place.
Herein the UK bells were the norm and still are in my area both my high and primary (elementary) schools used bells in fact at my high school the bells were on strobe mounts and also did a single blast to signal a class change
I'll be honest, I've seen people in the US who are just as clueless when they fire alarm goes off regardless if it's a bell or a horn strobe. I've seen many places now putting in verbal announcer systems which will tell you if it's a fire or Co or some other emergency that requires an evacuation.
Yes I’m guessing you’re talking about voice evacuation system I would say they are superior to both because of guided messages however no system or sound is going to make someone leave that doesn’t want to go
Bells are cool I do like bells a lot for collection use but I’m not really a bell person for building use I’m a horn strobe person since I do live in the US
Very great comparison video on fire alarms I saw the gate of your homemade crossing signal against the wall I'm wondering when you're going to do another video about your railroad crossing signal?
Sound difference levels of the bell and the horn at 10 feet and in the room Bell: 20.7 Horn: 15.5 So it appears that the sound of the horn dropped by 15.5 dB when it was in the room because the sound it makes is a Frequency Modulated sound and it makes it travel in great distances throughout the building and through walls because FM sounds are done by pushing the carrier frequency in the opposite direction so the modulated frequency can push the carrier frequency much further without the need to get more louder. The same thing applies for amplitude modulated fire alarm sounds like a SpectrAlert Classic. So yes that must be why the bell didn't do so well in the room because the sound it makes is from the striker hitting the gong at a really fast rate which is a mechanical sound and not an electronic synthesized sound that would make a amplitude or frequency modulated sound that's designed to travel further without the need to get more louder and penetrate through walls a lot better And by the way there are some horns that do very well or don't do very well through traveling great distances or penetrating through walls
Honestly I think bells are a BC thing from what I’ve noticed. I’m not sure what province you’re in but I assume there. We stopped using bells in Alberta in the late 90s, it all horn strobes in new construction since then. I’m not sure if it’s written into certain municipalities fire codes but I remember when living in Vancouver seeing buildings built within the last 10 years still using gong bells. I can’t speak for other provinces though other than Alberta, BC and Ontario.
Horn strobes with like the lights are smart beacuse of deaf people wouldn't hear the bell if it went off and the bell wouldn't let deaf people hear the fire alarm going off.
(sorry for my bad english) I think one big problem with firebells is, that they are very often not taken seriously, especially in public buildings, such as for exsemple shopping centers, because the people aren´t clearly advised what to do, what makes them often simply egnore the alarm. That´s not only a problem with bells, but with all firealarms without a vocal announcement. Iam from germany, where you don´t find any firebells, but we also have the same problem. That´s why I think for the purpose of a safe evacuation it´s important to clearly tell people how to behave, why I think all modern firealarmss should be required to have a voice announcement, what makes devices with a speaker, instead of Bells necessary. Also the sound of a firebell may be alarming, but especially in areas with a high dencity of people, that may become a problem, because it could also result in a panic. Because most people aren´t that interested in firesafety, and don´t knew, how safe modern buildings are today, and that there is usally no necessity for a panic, but an orderly evacuation, what could cause them to overreact. But when there is a clear voice announcement, there is no need for a loud, aggressive or alarming soud. Voice Announcements also elliminate the problem of people not understanding the alarm, because they aren´t used to it. If they are told, that there is a fire and they need to evacuate, there isn´t anything they couldn´t understand. That lag of knowledge about the topic of firesafety especially stood out to me, after the incident at the Grenfelltower in London, after wich a lot of people thought that could happen to evry highrise. They didn´t know, that the fire in the Grenfelltower only got so big and deadly because the constructioncompany didn´t follow the firesafety regulations for facades, wich would have kept the fire isolated in one appartment, instead of climbing up the building, and that there are dozens of fires in appartmentbuilding, evry year, that turn out absoulutely harmless, due to working firesafety meassures. One more place where Bells could be problematic, especially today, are highrises, where you often have a stay put policy, or only evacuate the people from in and around the levels, effected by the fire, instead of the whole building. In Asia, and I think also in the US there are also often areas of refugee in very big buildings, wich make the evacuation of a whole building in the case of a fire, unnecessary. If you only have firebells, it can become difficult to provide theese specific instructions to the people effected by the alarm, especially, when they weren´t prepared. In Schools you can do firedrills, and you can expect the same persons evry day, in a building, they know. But in malls the customers change evry minute and in appartment buldings, as well as in malls there are no firedrills, becuase, at least in malls they wouldn´t make any sense due to the continous change of customers inside. So the people are usally confronted with the alarm unprepared, what makes it more important to provide clear instructions for the evacuation to avoid a panic, or people egnoring the alarm . In therms of avoiding a panic, here in germany for exsemple they often don´t say, they are evacuating due to a fire, but due to a "serious technical malfunction" or an "incident in the building". And in the London subway for exsemple, they have the phrase "would Inspector sands pleas report to .../ go to..." as a coded prealarm, to inform the person in charge, that the firealarm has been activated. In therms of the risk of people egnoring the alarm, it´s mostly already eanough, to directly tell them to do so. There have been studys, that showes, that egnoring the alarm usally doesn´t happen because people don´t take the potential thread of a fire seriously, but because they aren´t exactly shure how to behave and then tend to orientate there behavour by the bahavour of other people. So if the majority doesn´t evacuate, the single people are less likely to decide themselthes to evacuate. For theese reasons I think firealarms without a voice announcement, such as bells, should only be used in Buildings, where people are used to the alarmsound and fireaction, such as factorys, offices and schools, while all public buildings, should have voice alarms (ofcourse combined with a alarmsound, and at best in multiple languages).
Now try the bell without the gong. Would anyone notice the bell is even ringing? Also would love to hear the difference between Durabel, 439D and MB-24 bells as I've often noticed the tones differ slightly especially between vibrating and motor bells.
My elementary schools. One had bells instead horns now they moved to another building now have horns. Other school had horns. So horns when I was in school was fairly new unless that building was built before horns. I am class of 2019.
Interesting 🤔 the bell might have proved to be louder in the dB test but I think it all depends on the tone the ding sound to me isn't as harsh as the horn sound from an advance, then you gotta factor in reverb and stuff I've been to places with 120v sprinkler bells hut they just don't seem as loud as the horn strobe
I should do more tests if I ever get the chance to do it when replacing schools fire alarm system it’ll be interesting to do a walk around before and after
@PICKLE 700 - SYSTEMS & ELECTRIC Hi, Hayden here. I wanted to talk something related about schools. How cool do you uthink it is for the director of Operations to do plans and let you see mechanical rooms? I love it alot also, do all schools let people like you have apprenticeships for maintenance?
It’s not an apprenticeship as I don’t get paid and it doesn’t count as my hours towards becoming a journeyman but it does count as work experience for credits for school so the more credits I get the less other stuff I have to do to graduate which is nice
@@nics-systems-electric not to mention today I met up with my operations director and the communications director. They were getting pictures of us in there. I got to go see every single fan rooms and I was the first to ever step foot on the rooftops.
Let’s do another panel test this time an MB-10 24 bell notifer or Edwards is the gone changeable between MB-10-24 and 439D I want to see if the pitch makes it louder?
The Vermont Achievement Center (VAC) school had bells when I was last there! In 1994! It was the residential houses that had FCi FC-72 FACPs with Wheelock 7002T horn/strobes. The system at the school, was much much older! The residential systems were installed in 1989 or 1990, IIRC.
Horns unlike bells can be a durability concern because they are just plastic, like he said, but a 9838 is metal and would be a great spot replacement for a dead bell.
The Gentex bell is so big it’s about the same size as the Edwards MB10-24 but it’s bigger then the 439D it’s very rare exit sign 250 has a Gentex. bell and it’s way bigger then a system sensor bell on the left and by the way horn strobes are louder then bells
The V.A.C. school did, when I was last there, in 1994. Won't be surprised if they were taken out. I rarely come across bells in U.S.A. (except outdoors, for the sprinkler)
As for my final answer as I never really said I would say horn strobes are the future and the way to go but in countries like mine Canada bells are superior as people just don’t care about horn strobes and don’t react the same way
Same with Singapore
Singapore where I live also uses fire bells
Nice video. Just out of curiosity, I played the sound of the bell on my fire alarm speaker, and it just sounded off. I couldn't help but notice that the motor sound could not be heard. when the bell is mounted to the wall, the sound of the motor running resonates in the walls. That just doesn't happen with a speaker or horn, even if it's a speaker playing a bell sound and I feel that that's one of the reasons fire bells have a sense of urgency that nothing can ever recreate. As an American, I've just learned to accept horn strobes as fire alarms. Another problem with the horn strobes is that it's not a standard sound. each brand has their own sound, making it hard to tell what's a fire alarm and what's just a random buzzer. That's not the case with bells. Both bells and horns are great, just in their own ways. It all comes down to how people react to it. It's interesting to see how fire alarm devices vary from country to country.
Southeast US fire alarm tech here. Most of our business is healthcare with hospitals, nursing and rehab facilities, and assisted living facilities. We've been installing the System Sensor chime strobes. They still fulfill the NFPA 72 decibel requirements but with the handy added bonus of not making you bleed from your ears as you walk by them. Check out System Sensor part #: CHSRL. But bells are still definitely installed by the sprinkler guys on the outside of the building, usually right where the riser room is, to indicate water flow to incoming firemen. Oh and I've seen a bell right above a releasing agent panel that we didn't install but got called to relocate, it was just so it could alarm locally. The releasing panel was part of a larger system and triggered the main building FACP.
My primary school had bells and the hospital I work at has bells across the whole building. They are freaking loud but I prefer them to modern U.K. fire alarms.
Manitoban here!! All of the schools I've been too have bells. We have a university with horn strobes. The bells as far as I know was an Edward's.
It’s not always about being as loud as possible, it’s more about sending the message effectively. When I hear a modern horn strobe going off, with the crazy sound it makes, I just want to get away from it as fast as I can. Bells don’t have the same effect on me. Funnily enough, my high school repurposed their fire bells and used them as normal bells to signal when class starts.
Usually bells are more effective as a more well-known fire alarm
@@nics-systems-electric well like you said, bells were everywhere in Canada, so I can see why that would be the case. I also think Hollywood has a bit to do with it too. Ever seen a fire alarm go off on a tv show and it not be a bell?
Here in the US I've only seen mechanical horn strobes/mechanical horn lights, horn strobes, and speaker strobes. Haven't seen and fire bells at least not in action. My elementary had Specturalert advances (Horn strobe don't know model), my middle school had mechanical horn strobes/ mechanical horn lights (4903-9101, and don't know the other one). Then my highschool had speaker strobes (SPSCWL-CLR-ALERT SYSTEM SENSOR, SPSWK-CLR-ALERT SYSTEM SENSOR, SPSWL-CLR-ALERT SYSTEM SENSOR). The only time I see bells are on the outside of building but I've never seen/heard them in action.
The bells are for the sprinkler.
With the majority of devices over here in the states being mechanical horns, horn strobes and maybe we're slowly transitioning to speaker strobes where applicable, every now and then I will see bell's being used for sprinkler alarms and for general notification, too. I remember seeing a 10" Potter being used for that purpose. I do want to say this, however. Your results may've proved bells are louder, but as someone else in the comments said you'll need to factor in reverberations, room or hallway size, and some other things. I'm not trying to falsify your conclusion, but the results can vary with certain factors including installation vicinity, and type of device. With that chopped from the block, it is a nice video demonstrating the SPL of bells and horn strobes.
Hello, I'm in Canada, so bro. My school literally has covers over my Bells and bra. I tell them it's literally solid metal
Way back in my day, I preferred bells over horn/strobes and I still do. You are never going to be able to replicate the resonating and vibration gong noise that bells put out with a horn/strobe. And, that resonating vibrating gong noise is apart of the charm of bells. Especially when the bells do code 3.
Most 24V fire alarm bells have their striker driven by a small DC motor, thus knocks a little bit slower but brighter and more "grainy", giving it the distinctive texture of sound different from general-purpose 120V bells, which are typically solenoid-operated and knocks at higher rate, generating harsh, fuzzy and chaotic metallic noise as what an angle grinder cutting through metal pipes would sound like.
Mainly in my school in Brooklyn, NY, Horn strobes are very common but i usually find Fire bells outside of any other schol or building.
Over here we just have bells on the outside on the building, and flush mounted, nonchalant, white speakers on the ceiling, and the bells are always on continuous. The internal speakers are code 3 and always are a low, deep tone. Although, sometimes a general evacuation is called for a fire, that is a rising tone in code 3, followed by "Evacuate now", "Evacuate as directed", or "Emergency"
I love your videos
I grew up with horn strobes my whole life
The horn strobe you tested scares me because when I was younger our fire alarm was that horn strobe and it was so loud that we had to cover our ears
I think it also depends on which province the system’s installed in, at least here in Ontario horns have always been a bit more common than bells, although Ontario’s building code had a big change in 2014 no longer permitting new systems to install bells and requiring any buildings with more than 1000 occupants at a time to upgrade to speaker strobes that sound like the previous alarms installed
This is a very interesting discussion to me. I'm from the US, and based on my own experiences in school and such, I find horns to be a much more urgent signal than bells. In my elementary school there were bells mounted outside, but they never had much effect on me. Fire alarms used to scare me a lot as a kid, but I was scared of (and later fascinated by) horns, not bells.
Having said all that, I think perceived urgency of a signal is very much based on past experience. I recently read that 2003 Canadian study which found that people didn't find the temporal 3 pattern to be urgent (I'd love to know what people think of it now; I certainly think it's urgent), and I was surprised that people thought the continuous bell was more urgent. To me, and I think to many in the US, that sound is a school bell (i.e., signalling a class change), not a fire alarm, although my schools happened to use a square wave tone for that purpose instead. However, the ISO temporal 3 standard specifically states that it makes no stipulations in regard to the signaling device used; it only dictates the pattern of said signal. My point being, why install horns at all? If Canadians in large part are used to bells and find them more urgent, there's really no need to change that unnecessarily. In fact, I can relate to the confusion in fire alarm signals. Again in my elementary school, the electronic horns and the bells were on march-time, and the mechanical horns were on continuous, and as a kid, that confused me at first. That's why I like the idea of universally adopting one pattern, even though some don't find temporal 3 to be urgent. But it's also why I think that if bells, rather than horns, are what will make people react quickly and evacuate, then the bells should stay. And vice versa.
i think it just depends on what part of the world you're in.
@@J19_vlogger74 I completely agree. I just think authorities shouldn't go around unnecessarily changing signals and creating more confusion just because other places use other signals. As it happens, I'm currently staying in an apartment in Maryland where the fire alarm is a bell on continuous. I don't think it's very urgent-sounding (or loud), but I wonder if it's a legacy system (the building was built in 1970).
The temporal 3 pattern has existed since the turn of the century. I would assume that the NFPA wanted a recognizable tone pattern that would tell everyone that there’s a fire emergency and have no confusion about it. To me, continuous just blows everyone’s eardrums out, and March time always sounded too silly. By now people should understand that a temporal 3 pattern always means fire. That’s why it’s also used in residential smoke alarms and fire alarms on burglar alarm systems.
@@mattdude Exactly how I feel, and as a deaf-blind person that gripe with continuous is double for me. Temporal 3 has those pauses where some communication can be had. I get that continuous is supposed to physically drive people out, but I also think this creates panic rather than an orderly evacuation. Temporal 3 is loud and universally recognizable thanks to smoke alarms as you said, but it also has an almost measured quality to it, if that makes sense. So you don't run away screaming, but you do know there's a report of fire and you need to leave. But beyond that, when people imitate a fire or smoke alarm in the US, it's almost always temporal 3. I think the urgency of that signal is now much more well-established than it was 20 years ago when the Canadian study was done.
To be fair, though, the continuous in my current apartment startles but doesn't scare me - the bells just aren't all that loud. But the first time I heard it I was confused as to what the signal meant, and since I'm here I'm obviously a bit of a fire alarm geek. Loud or not, if the bells had sounded temporal 3, the meaning would have been abundantly clear to me.
Calgary Catholic School District has always used EST. Old systems where usually bells. But now we have Horn-Strobes. So I’ve always been around EST Genesis’s/Integrities (with my high school). But I have seen either alarms, just not heard them. But of course given I am an enthusiast now I know what they all sound like so I won’t have a problem knowing whats going on. Great vid!
The bell is so loud that the panel is complaining
I think it really depends on the specific Bell and horn in question. an old Edwards fire alarm listed vibrating adaptabel is lethal, and it’s sheer volume borders on unsafe, but a mircom BL6B 6 inch motor bell is barely louder than most fire alarm speakers! As for horns are we talking about a little 1st generation Edwards genesis or are we talking about a vibratone mechanical horn with the volume screw lifted off, I’ve heard techs in the field say horns are louder I’ve heard techs say Bells are louder! I say it really depends on the specifics of that particular device!
I was basing this off electronic horns old-school vibrating horns are equally as effective as bells in my opinion and when I say bells I talk about 10 inch motor or vibrating bells as those are by far the most common
All of my schools I went to(not including college) used wheelock, some I have seen wheel lock as, a special needs school reused a fire alarm bell as a period bell(they upgraded to a tone bell from speaker) that fire alarm bell will stil be used as a fire alarm bell.
How do you not evacuate when you hear a horn strobe? Those things scare the shit out of me and make me want to run out of the building. I hated my high school years as our school had simplex TrueAlert horn strobes that had lots of false alarms, and they made us stay in so we had to listen to those awful things.
They just don't seem aggressive enough
There still loud it's just not the same though
@@nics-systems-electric Interesting. I think voice evac speaker systems are best for these kind of situations. Not too loud to be scary, and give direct instructions on what the emergency is to make people evacuate the building.
I am in canada and we have a lot of bells in stores hospitals and a lot more places. I would say bells are better.
I’m with you on that I don’t think people realize that people just don’t care when they hear the horn strobes too
I live in Singapore
I think bells are better, because they seem louder and more noticeable. People are unreal that they ignore fire alarms in general, but I think bells would help, with strobes still in place.
I agree
I have an edwards bell and its extremely quiet
Its a 439D series 24vdc bell
Herein the UK bells were the norm and still are in my area both my high and primary (elementary) schools used bells in fact at my high school the bells were on strobe mounts and also did a single blast to signal a class change
I'll be honest, I've seen people in the US who are just as clueless when they fire alarm goes off regardless if it's a bell or a horn strobe. I've seen many places now putting in verbal announcer systems which will tell you if it's a fire or Co or some other emergency that requires an evacuation.
Yes I’m guessing you’re talking about voice evacuation system I would say they are superior to both because of guided messages however no system or sound is going to make someone leave that doesn’t want to go
I miss the bells here in the United States 😕
Bells are cool I do like bells a lot for collection use but I’m not really a bell person for building use I’m a horn strobe person since I do live in the US
Very great comparison video on fire alarms I saw the gate of your homemade crossing signal against the wall I'm wondering when you're going to do another video about your railroad crossing signal?
I’ll probably bring it out in the summer
@@nics-systems-electric awesome I look forward to seeing it in action
Sound difference levels of the bell and the horn at 10 feet and in the room
Bell: 20.7
Horn: 15.5
So it appears that the sound of the horn dropped by 15.5 dB when it was in the room because the sound it makes is a Frequency Modulated sound and it makes it travel in great distances throughout the building and through walls because FM sounds are done by pushing the carrier frequency in the opposite direction so the modulated frequency can push the carrier frequency much further without the need to get more louder. The same thing applies for amplitude modulated fire alarm sounds like a SpectrAlert Classic.
So yes that must be why the bell didn't do so well in the room because the sound it makes is from the striker hitting the gong at a really fast rate which is a mechanical sound and not an electronic synthesized sound that would make a amplitude or frequency modulated sound that's designed to travel further without the need to get more louder and penetrate through walls a lot better
And by the way there are some horns that do very well or don't do very well through traveling great distances or penetrating through walls
If possible could you do mechanical horn vs the spectralert advanced?
Neat
As a canadian, my school has mircom remote horns but theres 2 bells but not hooked up. But i see bells EVERYWHERE.
What I find interesting is some fire alarm panels use dover floor passing buzzer
I was always in a school in Canada with bells
What happens 6 months later when the birds have nested in the bell
We don't typically have birds inside our buildings
Honestly I think bells are a BC thing from what I’ve noticed. I’m not sure what province you’re in but I assume there. We stopped using bells in Alberta in the late 90s, it all horn strobes in new construction since then. I’m not sure if it’s written into certain municipalities fire codes but I remember when living in Vancouver seeing buildings built within the last 10 years still using gong bells. I can’t speak for other provinces though other than Alberta, BC and Ontario.
In the us aot of schools use a bell Begin and end of classes so be weird to have the same thing for fire alarm.
Horn strobes with like the lights are smart beacuse of deaf people wouldn't hear the bell if it went off and the bell wouldn't let deaf people hear the fire alarm going off.
3:42
I’ve always thought bells just sounded vintage but they are still cool
They do sound older but they still work better for getting people out of a building
(sorry for my bad english)
I think one big problem with firebells is, that they are very often not taken seriously, especially in public buildings, such as for exsemple shopping centers, because the people aren´t clearly advised what to do, what makes them often simply egnore the alarm. That´s not only a problem with bells, but with all firealarms without a vocal announcement. Iam from germany, where you don´t find any firebells, but we also have the same problem. That´s why I think for the purpose of a safe evacuation it´s important to clearly tell people how to behave, why I think all modern firealarmss should be required to have a voice announcement, what makes devices with a speaker, instead of Bells necessary.
Also the sound of a firebell may be alarming, but especially in areas with a high dencity of people, that may become a problem, because it could also result in a panic. Because most people aren´t that interested in firesafety, and don´t knew, how safe modern buildings are today, and that there is usally no necessity for a panic, but an orderly evacuation, what could cause them to overreact. But when there is a clear voice announcement, there is no need for a loud, aggressive or alarming soud. Voice Announcements also elliminate the problem of people not understanding the alarm, because they aren´t used to it. If they are told, that there is a fire and they need to evacuate, there isn´t anything they couldn´t understand.
That lag of knowledge about the topic of firesafety especially stood out to me, after the incident at the Grenfelltower in London, after wich a lot of people thought that could happen to evry highrise. They didn´t know, that the fire in the Grenfelltower only got so big and deadly because the constructioncompany didn´t follow the firesafety regulations for facades, wich would have kept the fire isolated in one appartment, instead of climbing up the building, and that there are dozens of fires in appartmentbuilding, evry year, that turn out absoulutely harmless, due to working firesafety meassures.
One more place where Bells could be problematic, especially today, are highrises, where you often have a stay put policy, or only evacuate the people from in and around the levels, effected by the fire, instead of the whole building. In Asia, and I think also in the US there are also often areas of refugee in very big buildings, wich make the evacuation of a whole building in the case of a fire, unnecessary. If you only have firebells, it can become difficult to provide theese specific instructions to the people effected by the alarm, especially, when they weren´t prepared. In Schools you can do firedrills, and you can expect the same persons evry day, in a building, they know. But in malls the customers change evry minute and in appartment buldings, as well as in malls there are no firedrills, becuase, at least in malls they wouldn´t make any sense due to the continous change of customers inside. So the people are usally confronted with the alarm unprepared, what makes it more important to provide clear instructions for the evacuation to avoid a panic, or people egnoring the alarm . In therms of avoiding a panic, here in germany for exsemple they often don´t say, they are evacuating due to a fire, but due to a "serious technical malfunction" or an "incident in the building". And in the London subway for exsemple, they have the phrase "would Inspector sands pleas report to .../ go to..." as a coded prealarm, to inform the person in charge, that the firealarm has been activated. In therms of the risk of people egnoring the alarm, it´s mostly already eanough, to directly tell them to do so. There have been studys, that showes, that egnoring the alarm usally doesn´t happen because people don´t take the potential thread of a fire seriously, but because they aren´t exactly shure how to behave and then tend to orientate there behavour by the bahavour of other people. So if the majority doesn´t evacuate, the single people are less likely to decide themselthes to evacuate.
For theese reasons I think firealarms without a voice announcement, such as bells, should only be used in Buildings, where people are used to the alarmsound and fireaction, such as factorys, offices and schools, while all public buildings, should have voice alarms (ofcourse combined with a alarmsound, and at best in multiple languages).
@NIC'S - SYSTEMS & ELECTRIC horn/strobes,strobes only and horn only are very common in the u.s
I wanna get a bell so badly!! Stay safe and have fun! ...
Me too, one of those old Durabel 10" from the 70's would be perfect.
My school has some fire alarm bells
As much I love the bells but, the horns are louder to get your attention
That’s the thing though they aren’t bells are louder actually
Hi, I want to know if I can do something to go down the volume of a fire bell
Just a quick note, the horns are not as loud by design. The sound output is limited by nfpa72 18.4.1.2.
You should also have done a Edwards Genesis since they are everywhere in my city
Good idea I will do more in the future hopefully
@@nics-systems-electric awesome!
Now try the bell without the gong. Would anyone notice the bell is even ringing? Also would love to hear the difference between Durabel, 439D and MB-24 bells as I've often noticed the tones differ slightly especially between vibrating and motor bells.
Would you consider the AS, NS, and/or Classic vintage?
No that’s not old enough or rare
@@nics-systems-electric how old does an alarm have to be to be “vintage” bc the 7K2T is only like 20 years older
@@thefuturefrontierpilot75 maybe like 50 or more
@@nics-systems-electric oh ty
A lot of fire alarms here in the United States are horn strobes and my school has them
My elementary schools. One had bells instead horns now they moved to another building now have horns. Other school had horns. So horns when I was in school was fairly new unless that building was built before horns. I am class of 2019.
Interesting 🤔 the bell might have proved to be louder in the dB test but I think it all depends on the tone the ding sound to me isn't as harsh as the horn sound from an advance, then you gotta factor in reverb and stuff I've been to places with 120v sprinkler bells hut they just don't seem as loud as the horn strobe
I should do more tests if I ever get the chance to do it when replacing schools fire alarm system it’ll be interesting to do a walk around before and after
@@nics-systems-electric code 3 also seems louder than continuous
I am in Singapore I think bells are better as I see them everywhere except my school
Wheelock 7002Ts and Federal Signal Vibratones are the way to go. Love those old mechanical horns. This new crap is cheap and disposable.
@PICKLE 700 - SYSTEMS & ELECTRIC
Hi, Hayden here. I wanted to talk something related about schools.
How cool do you uthink it is for the director of Operations to do plans and let you see mechanical rooms? I love it alot also, do all schools let people like you have apprenticeships for maintenance?
It’s not an apprenticeship as I don’t get paid and it doesn’t count as my hours towards becoming a journeyman but it does count as work experience for credits for school so the more credits I get the less other stuff I have to do to graduate which is nice
@@nics-systems-electric not to mention today I met up with my operations director and the communications director. They were getting pictures of us in there. I got to go see every single fan rooms and I was the first to ever step foot on the rooftops.
Let’s do another panel test this time an MB-10 24 bell notifer or Edwards is the gone changeable between MB-10-24 and 439D I want to see if the pitch makes it louder?
I will I wanna make another one of comparing a bunch of different devices for loudness
Are electromechanical horns louder than modern day electronic horns?
They seem more aggressive but I'm not sure if they're actually any louder
In the hotel I saw a est genesis in Canada and I touch it. It didn’t sound how strange.🤔
I also occasionally see remote strobes
Have u seen a 2901 9838 before i seen bells too but rarely
Not 100% sure if I have or not
The Vermont Achievement Center (VAC) school had bells when I was last there! In 1994! It was the residential houses that had FCi FC-72 FACPs with Wheelock 7002T horn/strobes. The system at the school, was much much older! The residential systems were installed in 1989 or 1990, IIRC.
Horns unlike bells can be a durability concern because they are just plastic, like he said, but a 9838 is metal and would be a great spot replacement for a dead bell.
15:26 😂
You ought to hear it in the bathroom!
Yeah im not used to bells. Im more familiar with older mechanical hornstrobes.
The most popular fire bell in maple ridge is notifier MB 10-24
The Gentex bell is so big it’s about the same size as the Edwards MB10-24 but it’s bigger then the 439D it’s very rare exit sign 250 has a Gentex. bell and it’s way bigger then a system sensor bell on the left and by the way horn strobes are louder then bells
439 and MB 10 are the same size
@@nics-systems-electric yes
@@nics-systems-electric its funny cuz the simplex bell has no nut on it and the 439D and the MB 10 have a nut
Why did Canada mostly use Bells instead of mechanical horns?
Do you have any notifier bells
Can’t remember there might be one but they’re all the same pretty much
The V.A.C. school did, when I was last there, in 1994. Won't be surprised if they were taken out. I rarely come across bells in U.S.A. (except outdoors, for the sprinkler)
Nic you would love mechanical horns. Too bad your country didn't ever really use them
Kobishi bells sounds similar to potter bells
Hi
Are horn strobes older than bells?
No
15:27 horn must’ve knocked it over lol
But I only seen Roshini Sounders in my school
These are European sounders. These are common in my school as well.
I'll collect bells
kindve just Canada vs states
Mn
Fire bell better than Horn strobe
No
Hey um at 13:13 what size number did you select on that tool to take off those hex nuts 🔩