Dev Server - AIR SUPERIORITY
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- Опубликовано: 6 дек 2023
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The duels you did (besides the still early flight models) prove the fact that there needs to be an instructor rework in the game. With props and early jets tightest turn also meant best manoeuvring energy retention. With modern jets this doesn't happen anymore, and a system where you can adjust what the instructor is pulling much like you can adjust wing sweep imho should be something the community should ask for.
MiG-29 is the prime example of all this (but it affects every modern jet). After the flight model changes with full real controls you can get a lot of AoA and rate just as good as it used to be if you keep it at 650kph IAS.
Instead the instructor doesn't allow it to pull as hard as it can (it does 22 while in full it can do over 28 degree AoA without even removing the dumper. Without dumper it does nearly 60 degree AoA), and at low speed the sustained turn was rightfully nerfed (it was over performing) after Sons of Attila.
In short currently the way the instructor is set up can influence how an aircraft performs regardless of the aircraft capabilities, as it often forces the aircraft to fly in a way that is far from efficient.
same deal with the BF109's lol. they used to pull way harder, but they got a instructor update that basically fucked them over. there's supposed to be slats that deploy when you fully pull in the 109, but those don't deploy unless you use SB controls
all this ! @@ayylmao8901
The bearcat suffers from the instructor allowing too much aoa, basically destroying the energy advantage it would otherwise have
@@ayylmao8901at least they deploy when you roll while pulling lmao
You can use the pitch down key in combination with mouse aim if you want to retain energy. Reworking the instructor system would only be relevant in duels, and in rb it would be awful to play with, if you had to bind 3 more keys to get performance out of your aircraft.
The su-27 sounds like a tie fighter its sick
that's the f15
I love the F15 Eagle. But dam do the French Mirages just look gorgeous. Can’t wait to get up there for my own.
Short Cuts, The plane on left is played by Defyn and the plane on the right is played by piiot:
00:00 - 12:13 -> Normal Matches (Team vs Team)
15:00 - 21:21 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (SU-27 vs F-16A ADF)
22:17 - 26:26 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (SU-27 vs JAS39A)
27:59 - 39:24 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (JAS39A vs F16AJ)
43:05 - 49:18 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (MIRAGE 4000 vs SU-27)
50:08 - 56:47 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (JAS39A vs MIRAGE 4000)
57:34 - 1:00:50 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (MIRAGE 4000 vs MIRAGE 2000)
1:01:18 - 1:09:01 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (F-15J vs MIG-29SMT)
1:09:04 - 1:15:08 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (F-15J vs SU-27) WITH MISSILES!
1:15:37 - 1:18:38 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (F-15A vs SU-27)
1:18:40 - 1:21:28 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (F-15A vs MIG-29SMT)
1:21:30 - 1:28:30 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (F-15A vs F16C)
1:28:35 - 1:35:49 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (F-15A vs F14B)
1:35:51 - 1:42:54 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (F-15A vs F-4F)
1:44:01 - 1:52:01 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (F16AJ vs JAS39A)
1:52:39 - 1:59:20 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (JAS39A vs MIG-29G)
2:00:15 - 2:25:27 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (SU-27 vs F15J) WITH MISSILES
2:26:05 - 2:29:58 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (SU-27 vs MIG-29G) WITH MISSILES
2:30:38 - 2:34:39 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (MIG-29A vs SU-27)
2:35:50 - 2:37:54 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (SU-27 vs MIG-29A)
2:38:49 - 2:41:06 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (MIRAGE 4000 vs F-16A ADF)
2:41:08 - 2:49:30 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (MIRAGE 4000 vs F-16AJ)
2:50:26 - 2:55:00 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (MIRAGE 4000 vs SU-27) WITH MISSILES
2:55:32 - 2:57:29 -> 1 vs 1 DOGFIGHT (MIRAGE 4000 vs JAS39A) WITH MISSILES?
2:58:06 - 3:06:59 -> DEGYN IS GOING OVER EVERYTHING, AND GIVING HIS OPINIONS! REFER TO HIS OTHER VIDEO ALSO!
3:07:00 - 3:24:08 -> DEFYN AWNSERS SOME Q&A QUESTIONS FROM CHAT!
3:24:38 - 3:33:06 -> DEFYN PLAYS TWO MATCHS WITH THE F-15J (HE GOT ANGRY OPS)!
3:33:10 - 3:38:38 -> DEFYN TEST FLYES THE F-15J AND ENDS THE STREAM!
The War Thunder F-15 has the flight performance of a MiG-25: a giant brick that can go Mach Jesus.
They really took a dump on the mig 29s flight model eh?
Always gotta go for the next best thing
8 hours later, RUclips autoplays Defyn's barely contained heavy breathing as he prepares to take off in the SU-27. Good to hear you excited about something.
The SM4K seems to have a sweetspot when it start turning like a kite and then the AOA transform its delta wing into a massive airbrake
Sorry I couldn't watch live, it's usually while I'm at work. I've always gotta watch the video though. Can't wait to see the flanker on the regular server. The gripin too.
The Flanker’s turn rate is terrifying
Have u seen gripen?!!!! Its crazy
Guys the flight models are almost always wrong, don’t you remember the F-16 at first?
It seemed pretty poor to me in the gameplay.
@@Boris_The_Turtlewas just about to say as far as I know the flanker out turns the f-16 but it seemed kinda lackluster here
@@UnbiasedPanthe Flanker should dog walk the entire game maneuverability wise but gaijin lmao
Damn these planes are massive, didn’t think it would be that big of a difference holy shit 😂
720 FLARES FROM GRIPEN?????? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
with the ecm pods in 4 missile pilons, still has easily over 300 flares otherwise
The Su-27 really is a huge jet.
The F15 is small compared to the Su27 and F14. They need to fix it's flight model.
Su-27 is the same size as B-17
@@ariq4209I was going to berate you for saying that as it is heavily dependent on what exact statistic we're comparing.
So I took the biological approach and looked at weights, which surprisingly enough, are within 2,500 lbs of each other.
(Maximum payload is actually way more to the B-17, contrary to popular believe)
Gaijin giving the F15 the Mig 25’s flight model lmao
No way F-15 drops like this
probably will bro, shits ass
@@LittleBill5463always was
It will probably be a bit better. Keep in mind it is very big and heavy, with not as much lift as the Su27. Strong engines though.
@@Boris_The_Turtleit definitely has a similar amount of lift, just different aerodynamics and weight don't allow the same things
@@Boris_The_Turtle It's 10,000 lb lighter than the Su-27 with a much lower wing loading.
the missile you shot here 11:18 came back around and slammed him, very nasty
2:57:48 He shows the TechTree.
you have to fly the gripen a bit weird, like the jaktviggen. You have to use full steering mode to turn at super low speed
Because the canards are working against pulling to antistall the aircraft
When you say full steering mode, do you mean just the elevator on the keyboard?
@@LoudestHowardno he Means SWITCH control mode to Full simulator controls
full Realistic controls should be enough for low speed control but full sim Controls give you max Control
@@diprosla592 exactly
@@LoudestHoward if you want to know hat that looks like, I can recommend ACE_Viper. He's a small RUclipsr who almost perfected the skill.
Btw, f-16 and gripen both drink fuel twice faster than su-27, so to get a ~fair/equal dogfight you could have 6/3 minutes of fuel on su-27 instead of 13(this plane doesn’t turn at all(performance is similar to SMTs but with less energy retention) if it has more than 10 minutes of fuel)
Imagine when they add the EX with realistic performance and someone does a clean loadout speed test
I wonder if the M4K will get the "8-14 advanced AAMs" as described on its' wikipedia page. I also wonder what France will get for rank 8 ground. EBRC Jaguar maybe...?
It has 9 missiles now, 14 is impossible without MICA so we have to wait
"How is the Su27 gimped in DCS? It's just severely underperforming."
Maybe it's because DCS is WAY more realistic than war thunder ever will be, and the reality is the Su27 just isn't as good as its IRL hype.
Can’t say I’m surprised that Gaijin botched the F15, just extremely disappointing performance for the legendary eagle. Hope they fix it.
Same here man. I hope they change it too. The flight models are still in their early stages so it's still possible.
Everyone is thinking the Flanker sounds like a Tie Fighter and I'm over here just thinking they sound exactly like the cloakers from Payday 3
took me a whole day to realize that the nozzles on the f-15a have been copy pasted from the F-16A Block 10-15 engine, on Eagles the actuators are outside, nevertheless i like how it looks as it is better than the real life nozzles.
The F-15 should shit on the F-16 in a low speed scissor. I think the F-16 gets a too high CL right now.
The F-15 should whoop the F-16 in the one circle
Yep. US mains were crying so loud that f16 is now essentially a UFO atm. Watch how they gonna buff f15 to the levels of even more UFO while leaving su27 and mirage the same...
Wasn't there a recap of the devserver a few hours ago? Can't find the video anymore
Is gripen getting voice warning system?
F15 fm is clearly wip. Ultimately rate wise it matches the f16 or is slightly superior with more aoa and better accell.
I would say the F16 beats it in the rate fight. The viper is unmatched in that regard. But the Eagle definitely pulls much higher aoa and has the edge in the one circle. It’s High alt turn performance is also superior to the F-16 due to its giant wings
nah bro
@@christianrimbau1557 the rate charts are out there and I encourage you to compare them. Their quite close to each other within 1-1.5deg/sec (eagle is higher for most of the envelope), close enough it’s pilot skill over performance that matters.
Are there some new sounds or am I tweakin?
Cant you run R27ETs on the outer r27 pilots on the su27?
you can
I can't quite remember off of the top of my head but the Su 27 could (I believe) carry 6 R27s, 4 of which being ER/ETs on the inner wing and under engine pylons and another 2 ERs stacked behind eachother in the middle underneath the airplane where the MiG 29s fueltank is located. 4x R73s on top of those 6 R27s, so theoretically, irl, it could :)
isnt the f15 supposed to go mach 1 while vertical? how does it stall out
Combat ready F-15s aren't capable of going mach 1 in vertical, the one that accomplished the feat was the F-15 Streak Eagle which was one stripped down tin order to be as light as possible for the test
The Su-27 FM is wrong. It basically has one turn at low speed but it has terrible roll authority at low speed.
SU-27 is underperforming lmao, it's critical AOA is wrong, it's STR isn't nearly as good as it should be, it's ITR should at the very least be better than the f16adf, you have no idea what you're talking about
@@jaek__Nah, you're just jerking it in the comments to your favourite jet. Su-27 isn't half as strong of a plane as you can imagine, it's a really primitive plane by even it's own year introduction standards
@@Miszorov it's not my favorite, I just know what I'm talking about, the VKS barely uses the su 27 anymore if at all, the fleet is entirely comprised of su 30s and su35s, you may not take the Flanker seriously but NATO and all western air forces most definitely do
1:10:05 Literally payday cloaker sound kekw
Gotta love the Sweden main whining like a man baby just because Britain got something after getting virtually nothing for years. Respect for not just ignoring them because I know I would
I love this update, but nerfing the mirage f1c 200 by not allowing it to carry missiles on the belly and missiles at the wing pylons at the same time, is a terrible move from gaijin.
Luckily for me, I gave up on the mirage f1c a long time ago. It has been terrible since it was introduced, and gaijin nerfing it now is no surprise. If you must play it, just use it as a bomber to get base kills for rp until you can get a Mirage 2000. Then throw it the f1c in the trash where it belongs.
I don't think it matters tho, the middle missile is quite shit anyways
Obviously the f15 is a boat, look at its size, it gives about 3 gripens
Then the Su-27 gives about 5 Gripens😅
na if the f15 drops like this i want 120s
No u dont
Hopefully they improve it cuz in dcs it’s a monster
If we had the DCS Eagle, gaijin would lose their marbles. They can’t handle the fact that the F-15 would destroy Russia’s top tier win rate (as they should)
@@christianrimbau1557your DCS eagle is very simular to DCS flanker. Except fkanker better instantaneous turn and 1 circle with AOA while F15 has slightly (by like 1 degree a second) better turn rate
FA-18 Hornet should follow the series...
Do not deploy flaps, it's fly by wire flaps deploy independently when needed. If u deploy u actually hinder performance.
try Mig-21 vs the mighty F4 Phantom
Look how they massacred the F15s flight model
The only question I keep having is, why does germany not get an extra top tier jet?
This is the first dev server, a handfull more vehicles are added before the final update. The only thing i could see coming is the F-4F ICE as the typhoon is way too good for release now. I know it sucks, but the wait will be worth it
You guys literally just got a mig 29g
@@leohemmings324 ee don't wanna play with it anymore😤
The F-15A is a major disappointment not even close to what it should be.
13g turn…
f15 engine sounds like a cloaker
US needs to stop starting with Ls while USSR gets R73s, not comparable for starting missiles.
If F-15A is actually that IRL, kinda understand why Iran went for F-14
I believe there's as story somewhere that the Shah decided for the F-14 after watching a performance airshow of both aircraft.
The F-15 went first, meanwhile the F-14 stood on the tarmac burning gas to make it lighter.
It's like that one time USAF F-15s and US Navy F-14s did mock dogfights with eachother and the F-14 won.
The Navy pilots knew they were at a disadvantage and studied the F-15's flight performance for weak points.
The Air Force pilots didn't do any homework knowing their aircraft was best.
1:04:17 it doesn’t
Why do all the RUclipsrs use the Japanese f15 instead of the American one? Is the Japanese one better?
yep, better missiles
@@blurr220 bruh why the hell doesn’t America get a f15 with 40g missiles. Another USA L
@@lorenzoonblitz473cope
@PhoBos_____ moni
Don't one circle the Su-27
F-15 cannot beat the SU-27 in any regime.
Where did you get that information? From the Russian state media or from Gaijin themselves? If 104:0 is something you can’t fathom in your head, then you’re just as oblivious as the vegetables who came up with the current War Thunder F-15 flight model. I urge you to educate yourself before you compare goofy air show demonstrations to real life combat performance.
@@christianrimbau1557 most of the f15s kills were jets from the 60's with a few exceptions, my info is from USAF EVAL but ok lmao I guess I need to educate myself on 'real life combat performance' as if that will suddenly make the f15 more maneuverable than the Flanker
@@christianrimbau1557muh f15 muh 105:0 muh i can beat children so damn good with 104 to 1 and one almost killed me that definitely means that i can beat you: my equal just as good.
Damn... Sometimes you Americans really do look the stupidest ppl out there...
@@christianrimbau1557 You are so clueless, this is hilarious XD
Lol this stream showed pretty plainly just how shit the SMT is. Literally everything about it is worse than the su-27.
Yeah mig 29 needs a net buff to both energy retention and aoa ability and then nerf the smt to account for the extra weight. If we don't get a mig 29 fm this update I feel we won't be getting one for a long time
To be fair a lotta deaths from defyn were skill issues, he lost when using the f15 against su27 but when reversed he he also lost
I am dueling one of the better top tier duelists ofc I am going to lose more.
They are almost equal to eachother and hes better than me at this so its natural it goes this way.
It's also about testing different things to see what does and doesn't work. I had to test the F15 first and by the time he got to use it he already had an idea what to do with it.
yea that dude would kick both of us in the nuts
F15 and Su27 are no dogfighters. they are rather fast as fuck missile trucks compared to dedicated dogfighters like Mig29, f16 and eurofighter
Completely incorrect
su 27 is one of the best dogfighters ever made, you're onto nothing
F15 wise is better then the f16 the charts are freely available. We also have the dcs fm’s as a reference their basically equal just the f15 can pull more aoa and accelerates a bit better.
@@nighthawk2174 f15 beats the Falcon in dcs pretty easily
@@nighthawk2174 their almost identical on most em crafts, f15 airfoil is also pretty similar to the falcons if not really similar
There's no justification for giving the British a Gripen
South Africa uses it, but there is actually no justification for giving them a better Gripen then Sweden has
@@downwindfish1well the US gets the worst F15 as well soo...
@@bluefox9436 ok? it's bad in both cases
@@bluefox9436I mean, US at least gets anything every single patch…
@@WigSplitters it gets better missiles though, and tbh both variants are absolute boats atm.
Jesus christ you don't rate fight by just pulling as hard as possible.
they were testing the aircraft and what was possible and what wasnt he even said he wasnt gonna tryhard
This might be a little bit more accurate for the F-15A, since documents state the C boasts better maneuverability than the A. But one thing is true. The F-15 turns better at high speed than it does at low speed. In other words, it's a one circle jerk. You get one turn of amazing maneuverability before your plane just dies with your speed.
Just because the F-15 is a better one circle than two circle DOES NOT mean its a bad 2 circle aircraft, it isn’t. The F-15 should still be out-rating everything except maybe an F-16C
I’m not sure where you get this misconception about the F-15. You’d be surprised to know that the F-15 actually has very good nose authority/1 circle performance despite its size and weight. Many pilots have attested to its versatility of being able to be consistently good at both the one and the two circle fight, and can switch between the two styles very effectively depending on its bandit. This is due to its very low wing loading, >1 thrust/weight ratio, and also much lower relative weight when compared to even the SU-27 Flanker. While it is a large aircraft, the F-15 has more than enough wing area to make up for it, which allows it to be extremely maneuverable and hold high g turns very well, while also being extremely durable.
Between these two powerhouses, the Flanker only holds a minor advantage in the one circle, while the Eagle holds a minor advantage in the two circle. Overall both platforms are pretty comparable and an equal match to one another, but in a guns only fight, the Eagle SHOULD be winning due to its better two circle turn rate performance. It can hold its speed better and sustain a higher turn rate at higher g loads. However, a high-off boresight Fox 2 fight would favor the Flanker as it has the advantage of being able to whip around its nose just a bit quicker in a sustained one circle fight.
What you see here is in no way depicting the real world capabilities and flight performances of both aircraft, as they are both without a doubt underperforming (which is especially in the case of the F-15 because Gaijin be doing Gaijin things). Let’s hope that they can get their sh*t together and bring us a good update
Bruh
"muh russian bias" US mains keep coping even after watching the Su-27 getting clapped in a almost 4hrs long stream in almost every engagement, F-15 is definitely a boat but the Su-27 is not that much better, but of course it's dev server and things are supposed to change.
the air meta shifts between patches because there is so much technology and airframes we haven't gotten to yet
the ground meta is another matter entirely. It's static.
if you don’t see an issue with the current standing of the vehicles they’re adding vs the SU27 in NORMAL gameplay (aka missile thunder) then idk what to tell you. They are not balanced how they stand currently, however it is the Dev server so we’ll see. Also why tf does the F15 even have a wing rip, it’s pulled 14gs irl and only sustained slight deformation.
I only mind that the f-15 has the real life wing snap G when literally every other plane in the game has entirely fictional overload limits, other than that, I’m fine with the Japanese one being the f-15C equivalent, and can deal with the flanker being much stronger in air RB, it’ll probably be that way till fox3s are added
@@spectre0969 shouldn’t even be wing snapping though, irl documented to have sustained a 14g pull without ripping its wings, there was deformation though. basically handed us a glorified phantom labelled as F15, kinda ridiculous.
and F-16 still being broken
F15 or Su 27 👇
J11
M4K
Falcon BMS
10.000.000 GE really? 🙃
Dev Server dude
@@niksonrex88 could have fooled me. I had expected him to have paid 66.000+EUR just to have that on his account..
@@ONormanO these planes are not even out yet on the live server. Everyone on the dev servers has basically an infinite amount of money. Youre supposed to test everything.
@@niksonrex88Where's my infinite GE? They get a bunch of GE from being content creators. The dev server doesn't give you any golden eagles.
Sorry but you are very bad with the Mirage 4000.
Yet still got a lot of wins, just shows how insane it is
Flying 1 circle fighters in horizontal flat turns in 1v1 dogfight wtf is this trash? DO NOT FLY Flanker and Gripen like this in a dogfight unless you are trying to lose. F16 owns everything in a flat turn. You need to use vertical manuevers only, and cut his circle in half.
Growling Sidewinder fan located, how about you duel piiot and show him how it’s done
Uhm true if it was DCS lol look at the thumbnail.
@@_lo8241 You're right, I should.
@@OwenBeyer-nr3dv the same physics and mechanics apply to war thunder.
Lol