I have found that in order to get vocalists on pitch is to do almost exactly the opposite of what you have suggested- vocalists don't get enough track to stay on pitch. If I have them turn themselves down in their mix, they are able hear pitch better. (Assuming that the other instruments are in tune.) They also get super-fearful when they hear themselves super prominent in the mix and back off on their performance, whereas having them a little less prominent in the mix makes them "dig in" more. I guess that means there's no one solution that fixes this.
Yeah indeed, one thing i noticed that when my IEM (on stage) or headphone volume is too loud, i always sing half tone lower, even what I heard from iem was I sang the right note (which was obviously wrong). The problem solved when i turned down the gain. I sing bass in an a cappella band, there are occasions that we have to sing without giving the first key (using pitch pipe) and we need to train to have perfect pitch.
That is a great tip. I've been turning up the vocals when the singer requested more vocals, but your way to get well vocal monitoring first and then turning up the band group seems better. I will try it.
Great tip and different perspective to mixing the vocal tracks. Once the vocals sit well in the mix, it's like everything is working around the vocals to compliment those vocals.
I have a simple 2i2 and I like to use a mixer a lot of times. Not just the direct ins. I have a pyramid amp and stereo speakers attached. The amp has two stereo inputs for audio playback. I like to have the interface and mixer plugged in simultaneously. That way I have main output control and monitor control. The main stereo out from the mixer goes directly into the left and right interface inputs for recording. That way my recording levels are set on the mixer and interface without the worry of a signal that's too hot. And so the monitor output from the mixer can be connected to the pyramid giving me the volume control I need to efficiently capture and simultaneously monitor. I also like using my 16-4-2 with the four bus that can be used for monitoring as well. Knowing the routing of the mixers with inserts and bus outs is fun and versatile.
Great video. I remember having to switch to open air headphones (most people say you need closed back headphones for audio bleed) for recording my vocals at first, because I sounded like a person that tries to talk to you with ear pods in their ears. I couldn't tell how I was singing. I got used to it later and switched back to closed back headphones.
I always thought it was to what confidence you had in your voice as I hate having too much vocal in my monitor as I tend to hold back because I drown everything out when I’m really going for it 🤷♂️
I personally like to barely hear myself while recording vocals. I have a couple tricks that I use for myself. I wouldn't force them on another singer, but they work for me. The first is to make a "guide melody" track. I'll use a Midi piano or something that will cut through the mix and I'll literally play the vocal melody note for note. I'll turn up that track until it's the loudest thing in the mix. Then I'll sing along to it. This gives me a guide for pitch and rhythm. The second trick is basically the same except that I'll do it with a vocal track. I'll record a scratch vocal and tune and time-align the hell out of it. It doesn't matter if sounds terrible that way. I don't keep it in the final mix. It's just a guide for my real vocal. Just like the Midi track, I make it the loudest thing in the mix and turn down my monitoring until I can barely hear myself and sing along with it. I'm not sure if this would work for other singers. But for better or worse, I don't have to record other people.
Another great tip I recently discovered: Split the singer's vocal input into 2 channels / tracks. Mix one for FOH, eq other for occlusion - only the singer gets the occluded eq vocal in his / her in-ear mix. Literally changed my life. Vocal clarity at reduced monitor volume because I don't have to raise the volume of the FOH vocal to a level where it drowns out the occlusion effect of singing with your ears plugged.
FWIW, I almost never record another vocalist, so this is just personal preference. That said, in my headphones, I like hearing myself lightly compressed, and into some fairly noticeable reverb: neither of those should be in the main signal chain for the recorded signal. I've worked out how to get that out of my DAW / interface, using a separate bus which doesn't go into the main bus, but is mixed with it in the headphone mix. I end up blending three different sources into the headphone mix inside the interface: the "raw" microphone signal, the bus signal with compression and reverb added, and the "band" signal (usually the main mix bus, as I typically mute the vocal track being recorded). If I'm not using the interface which makes this possible, then I fake it by leaving one of my closed-back recording headphones half-off my ear: that lets me hear my voice as I'm projecting it in the room, "mixed" (inside my head) with the band sound.
The headphone mix advice was good but that’s arguably the opposite of how to coach a great performance out of a singer. The best philosophy for this is found in the Tao Te Ching. Be sneaky about it. Never mention pitch issues and they fix themselves.
It might also be possible to NOT include all the instrumentals in the headphone/in-ear mix. A singer primarily needs to hear only 2 things: at least one instrument that establishes the pitch and one that establishes the rhythm. Even as a worship leader with a band in a previous church, I needed to hear myself, my keyboard, and the drums (or click). The other instruments and singers could be lower in volume (especially the lead guitar, goodness...). Even now, when I record my vocals, I really only need the primary instrument - keys or guitar to sing to. All other instrumentation is mostly superfluous. Now, I do understand how the rest of the instrumentation can be inspirational, etc., but not always necessary.
When I run live sound, about a third of the time, my lead vocalist is either going out of tune or not giving me enough volume out of the mic. 99% of the time, what will fix these things is subtly adjusting their monitoring mix a dB at a time. For tuning issues, make sure the singer not only hears themselves, but a harmonic pitch reference like piano or bass. More often than Joe’s problem of turning the vocal down too much, I find most people turn their vocal up and not much else, so they go out of key when they don’t hear the pitch reference inside the music. And lastly, when people are being timid or backed off of the mic too much and I can’t get them loud enough, I’ll subtly back their own voice down in their mix. If they notice, you’’re going to distract them at minimum and tick them off at max. Do it a tiny bit at a time, sometimes between songs, maybe a dB or two, never more than three. This usually has the effect of making them lean into the mic more to compensate for the subtle volume loss, fixing the gain before feedback issues. With some musicians, you can explain gain-staging and the technical side to them, but I find more often than not, just taking care of it without them noticing is better. If you are going to talk to them, do so one-on-one, not in front of everyone at soundcheck.
I find that bass is the worst thing for "harmonic pitch reference." It's harder to pick out distinct pitches when the instrument is in too low of a register. And bass tends to mask other instruments if it's too loud. That's why if you're at a live show, you can often only hear the bass if you're up front by the PA. I want something in the midrange, where our hearing is most sensitive as a pitch reference.
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As a monitors guy, this video is so spot on
I have found that in order to get vocalists on pitch is to do almost exactly the opposite of what you have suggested- vocalists don't get enough track to stay on pitch. If I have them turn themselves down in their mix, they are able hear pitch better. (Assuming that the other instruments are in tune.) They also get super-fearful when they hear themselves super prominent in the mix and back off on their performance, whereas having them a little less prominent in the mix makes them "dig in" more. I guess that means there's no one solution that fixes this.
I'm the same. I like to barely hear myself when I sing.
Yeah indeed, one thing i noticed that when my IEM (on stage) or headphone volume is too loud, i always sing half tone lower, even what I heard from iem was I sang the right note (which was obviously wrong). The problem solved when i turned down the gain.
I sing bass in an a cappella band, there are occasions that we have to sing without giving the first key (using pitch pipe) and we need to train to have perfect pitch.
That is a great tip. I've been turning up the vocals when the singer requested more vocals, but your way to get well vocal monitoring first and then turning up the band group seems better. I will try it.
We have a studio day coming up with a good but inexperienced singer. This is going to invaluable for us. Thank you!
Great tip and different perspective to mixing the vocal tracks. Once the vocals sit well in the mix, it's like everything is working around the vocals to compliment those vocals.
I have a simple 2i2 and I like to use a mixer a lot of times. Not just the direct ins. I have a pyramid amp and stereo speakers attached. The amp has two stereo inputs for audio playback. I like to have the interface and mixer plugged in simultaneously. That way I have main output control and monitor control. The main stereo out from the mixer goes directly into the left and right interface inputs for recording. That way my recording levels are set on the mixer and interface without the worry of a signal that's too hot. And so the monitor output from the mixer can be connected to the pyramid giving me the volume control I need to efficiently capture and simultaneously monitor. I also like using my 16-4-2 with the four bus that can be used for monitoring as well. Knowing the routing of the mixers with inserts and bus outs is fun and versatile.
Great video. I remember having to switch to open air headphones (most people say you need closed back headphones for audio bleed) for recording my vocals at first, because I sounded like a person that tries to talk to you with ear pods in their ears. I couldn't tell how I was singing. I got used to it later and switched back to closed back headphones.
I always thought it was to what confidence you had in your voice as I hate having too much vocal in my monitor as I tend to hold back because I drown everything out when I’m really going for it 🤷♂️
Good tip. Basically, dim solo the vox. Thanks!
I personally like to barely hear myself while recording vocals. I have a couple tricks that I use for myself. I wouldn't force them on another singer, but they work for me. The first is to make a "guide melody" track. I'll use a Midi piano or something that will cut through the mix and I'll literally play the vocal melody note for note. I'll turn up that track until it's the loudest thing in the mix. Then I'll sing along to it. This gives me a guide for pitch and rhythm. The second trick is basically the same except that I'll do it with a vocal track. I'll record a scratch vocal and tune and time-align the hell out of it. It doesn't matter if sounds terrible that way. I don't keep it in the final mix. It's just a guide for my real vocal. Just like the Midi track, I make it the loudest thing in the mix and turn down my monitoring until I can barely hear myself and sing along with it.
I'm not sure if this would work for other singers. But for better or worse, I don't have to record other people.
good song
Another great tip I recently discovered: Split the singer's vocal input into 2 channels / tracks. Mix one for FOH, eq other for occlusion - only the singer gets the occluded eq vocal in his / her in-ear mix. Literally changed my life. Vocal clarity at reduced monitor volume because I don't have to raise the volume of the FOH vocal to a level where it drowns out the occlusion effect of singing with your ears plugged.
I figured out years ago that I sing more on pitch when I have my vocals lower in my mix. It makes me sing louder and stronger.
your voice sound great! i ment here... what do you do on your voice recording for podcast?
FWIW, I almost never record another vocalist, so this is just personal preference. That said, in my headphones, I like hearing myself lightly compressed, and into some fairly noticeable reverb: neither of those should be in the main signal chain for the recorded signal. I've worked out how to get that out of my DAW / interface, using a separate bus which doesn't go into the main bus, but is mixed with it in the headphone mix. I end up blending three different sources into the headphone mix inside the interface: the "raw" microphone signal, the bus signal with compression and reverb added, and the "band" signal (usually the main mix bus, as I typically mute the vocal track being recorded).
If I'm not using the interface which makes this possible, then I fake it by leaving one of my closed-back recording headphones half-off my ear: that lets me hear my voice as I'm projecting it in the room, "mixed" (inside my head) with the band sound.
Interesting, too, that if you listen to records from '50s and '60s, the vocals were louder and more up-front than todays records.
Hello my friend, may I want to show the scale in Studio One? It has disappeared
Hello, its been years since my last visit. Wheres Graham?
The headphone mix advice was good but that’s arguably the opposite of how to coach a great performance out of a singer. The best philosophy for this is found in the Tao Te Ching. Be sneaky about it. Never mention pitch issues and they fix themselves.
68th!
It might also be possible to NOT include all the instrumentals in the headphone/in-ear mix. A singer primarily needs to hear only 2 things: at least one instrument that establishes the pitch and one that establishes the rhythm. Even as a worship leader with a band in a previous church, I needed to hear myself, my keyboard, and the drums (or click). The other instruments and singers could be lower in volume (especially the lead guitar, goodness...). Even now, when I record my vocals, I really only need the primary instrument - keys or guitar to sing to. All other instrumentation is mostly superfluous. Now, I do understand how the rest of the instrumentation can be inspirational, etc., but not always necessary.
When I run live sound, about a third of the time, my lead vocalist is either going out of tune or not giving me enough volume out of the mic. 99% of the time, what will fix these things is subtly adjusting their monitoring mix a dB at a time.
For tuning issues, make sure the singer not only hears themselves, but a harmonic pitch reference like piano or bass. More often than Joe’s problem of turning the vocal down too much, I find most people turn their vocal up and not much else, so they go out of key when they don’t hear the pitch reference inside the music.
And lastly, when people are being timid or backed off of the mic too much and I can’t get them loud enough, I’ll subtly back their own voice down in their mix. If they notice, you’’re going to distract them at minimum and tick them off at max. Do it a tiny bit at a time, sometimes between songs, maybe a dB or two, never more than three. This usually has the effect of making them lean into the mic more to compensate for the subtle volume loss, fixing the gain before feedback issues.
With some musicians, you can explain gain-staging and the technical side to them, but I find more often than not, just taking care of it without them noticing is better. If you are going to talk to them, do so one-on-one, not in front of everyone at soundcheck.
I find that bass is the worst thing for "harmonic pitch reference." It's harder to pick out distinct pitches when the instrument is in too low of a register. And bass tends to mask other instruments if it's too loud. That's why if you're at a live show, you can often only hear the bass if you're up front by the PA. I want something in the midrange, where our hearing is most sensitive as a pitch reference.
@@rome8180I actually agree - I’ll only add bass if there’s a midrange harmonic element to it or a lack of other instrumentation. Good correction
First here❤
Oh, well bless her heart for asking if you could hear yourself OK.
Joe, why did I think you lived in Florida?
Probably because Graham does.
@@DohBoi863 Yeah, I guess I got them mixed up.
@@bnjmnwst I did too when he took over the channel lol
So true. A good headphone mix makes all the diference!