Was This New York Bodega Worker Acting in Self Defense?
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- Опубликовано: 24 мар 2023
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The number of leftists that think self-defense is a right-wing principal is troubling
"Leftists" advocating weakness like this are a psyop. Change my mind.
Then again, that means they're practically suicidal.
They are not leftists. They are authoritarian normies. Real leftists want to take your guns away and give you better ones in return.
I know right? Mighty hard to defend other people's rights to live when you're not even willing to defend your own.
@lisarox4221 Like vaush mentioned, a big issue is gun culture. We let the right take guns as their thing. Now saying "yes, I believe you have the right to defend yourself in your own home against an intruder" is taken as "god I hope a minority breaks in so I can shoot em!"
Chat was insufferable during this segment. Unironically defending criminals and blaming the victims.
black people are free to do as they please that includes slaughtering killing pillaging and raping
I think Vaush was equally insufferable tbh. The section where Vaush jokes at the prospect of "lighting up" and intruder while chat does the Bloodstiny emote was soy as fuck. Reminds me of right-wing gun-owners who yearn for an excuse to shoot some teenager trespassing on their lawn. I'm fine with the idea of lethal force if an intruder poses a threat to your life but you should take it seriously, especially if you have 15 year old underage viewers
i guarantee you if the dude wasn't black chat would have the opposite opinion. As a leftie myself, seeing fellow leftist default to "it's cause of racism" every time a black dude is killed as if the world is 2 dimensional is annoying as hell
I just don't understand what they think the alternative should be, just let yourself be robbed? For the sake of the ROBBER'S safety?
Criminals shouldn't have any right to sue you for getting hurt while attempting to rob you. Something that should be obvious but apparently is not
Counterpoint: What if the robber was a tiny little guy. Like 1 inch tall. And when you tried to fight back he said it's his birthday. You wouldn't hurt a tiny little guy on his birthday, would you?
Depends if the robber has glasses. You wouldn’t hit a guy with glasses
I wouldn’t dare. As a matter of fact, I’d just give him my house key. And legal ownership of the house. And I’d give him a little kiss and thank him for robbing me.
I would put him in my pocket.
Still a threat, but likely immortal. Can't risk fighting back. If there's a 1in birthday boy, you run. Witness protection is the only option, because he will find you.
@@moonshoes8931 By the basic patterns of biology a 1in person would live a bit less than 2 years, so if it's their birthday it's their ONLY birthday. You are correct. Run. You can outlive them.
“A guy came into my personal space and shoved me back, then grabbed me by the neck and tried to swing me around, but unfortunately I was unable to tell if he had violent intentions and had no moral right to defend myself.” -Chat
He was probably just poor and desperate 😇
The really big red signal is NO MASK. That makes it clear you are in mortal danger
ok that's funny
@Voikona he probably was, still sad he felt he needed to do what he did. The old man still had a right to defend himself. Don't be a right winger and joke about shit like this. Anyone dying as a result of the system failing is tragic.
I swear chat unironicly was going “let them kill you”
The old guy had 2 options, and those were to either let the dude rob him and potentially harm him with a most probable gun, or to just fight back. No ordinary shoplifter walks behind a counter and pushes an old man
Should have just submitted to him, you can't know intent until something happens /s
@6millionpesoman no he should've used mind reading to find out his intentions /s
@@6MillionPesoMan me, a completely pacifist leftist, after dying; knowing that I at least knew my assailants intent before I decided to potentially protect myself from an innocent criminal:
Stop, it’s literally socioeconomic factors leading disenfranchised communities towards crime. POLICE ARE NOT THE ANSWER!!
The fact we even need /s to denote sarcasm these days is sad as hell...
I work in retail and would 100% fight back if someone came behind the counter like this. Chat has no idea what it’s like, especially when you’re alone and weaker (I’m a really tiny woman). This situation is terrifying, you don’t know what the robber will do to you if it plays out. Edit: Also, the robber didn’t hide his face. If I was in this situation, I’d assume he planned to kill me and that’s why he didn’t care if I saw his face.
I work retail I'm not fighting they have whatever they want it's not worth my life.
@@londadukes5078 if you see their face, they're gonna TAKE your life, bruh
@@londadukes5078 Thats not the point, if they just grab some stuff I'm not going to do shit, but if they corner me behind the counter with no way to retreat I'm going to fight, not because I care for the store, but because I can't know what they want and they are obviously willing to escalate the situation.
@@londadukes5078 completely missed the point. It’s about would you fight back if you felt like YOUR LIFE/HEALTH was on the line, not company property.
It’s “would you defend yourself if you are being directly assaulted”
@@londadukes5078 damn you are really that sad literal npc
Yes he was acting in self defense.
Stop, it’s literally socioeconomic factors leading disenfranchised communities towards crime. POLICE ARE NOT THE ANSWER!!
@@dishonoredundead tell me you didn't watch the video without saying you didn't watch the video.
@@pikapowns Just watched the video. It was absolutely self defense.
@@MANUELEYTOR friendly fire
@@MANUELEYTOR I watched the video, It was self defense.
Chat seems to forget that flight or fight response is a thing humans and animals do when they're cornered and under threat.
Nah, they must be on to something. A lot fewer people would run into trouble with the cops if they just stopped resisting, you know? Just do whatever any stranger demands of you in the moment, because you don’t know where they’re coming from or what they’re going through and the world doesn’t need MORE violence! So really, any woman who has used force to repel the advances of an emotionally disturbed incel is just causing more harm in the world. And it would sooooooo unfair to assume anyone’s intent
Probably because the most intense thing those chatters have ever experienced is trying to muster up the courage to tell a fast food worker that they got their order wrong
That's not a good excuse honestly. Even cops make that excuse
Here it's a real danger. NO MASK. The danger is mortal
@@jamespower5165 yes but rember there is a difference between shit cop doing something to hurt someone and a small woman stabbing the fuck out of a rapist you nob.
@@saltyraccoon9710It's pacifist LiberaIs in chat.
Chat proved they've never actually been outside or interacted with other human beings in any way, only reason they could acting this clueless
I often hate Vaush’s chat.
They need to touch grass fr
These people have such a sickeningly privileged view of these kinds of situations
oh noes, people, not me, but in chat, disagree with you. I also think you all here in the reply thread have not been in this situation - and everyone is talking out their asses about what they would do.
Of course, you should also not be surprised his chat, which is not most people who watch him live, saw a white dude attacking/killing a black dude in a world where that has been used to justify some really racist bullshit, and be surprised they had a gut reaction and then did the dumb chat thing of talking a lot about something they didnt really think about.
Everyone does this by the way - you yourselves have likely has a shit first take. Get over it - get over yourselves.
They all seem to think real life is anime and you can just sit there taking a beating while having a logical inner monologue watching your massive HP bar slowly dwindling while deciding if you have to take action.
Vaush: "I think that it is appropriate to kill someone in self-defense if they pose a substantial threat to your life."
Chat: "But that would be very mean. >:("
This is basically it. Chat is getting into a “vibes” phase and vowchsh needs to crack down
Chat doesn't work retail, and it shows. We are not cops. This is not what you'd call excessive force. This is self-defense, and the guy shouldn't have been jumping behind counters and attacking strangers.
100%. The fact people keep talking about defending company property is a dead giveaway.
I know a lot of them are too young to have ever had a job, but in the real world the company is more afraid of legal trouble than being robbed. If you DID try to fight off someone who was robbing your store, they would most likely fire you.
@@Ashtonyss They would 100% fire you. You are just supposed to let them take what they want and then call the police after.
@@felicityc They can't be fired if they also steal their life😃
If someone breaks into your house, there's no reason to assume they wouldn't kill you rather than get caught. This is why we should be outraged when cops raid the wrong house, and they kill someone who is trying to defend themselves.
There are some exceptions. Like this one guy whose house was broken into by unarmed teens who were probably looking for a place to have sex. I wouldn't mind if he actually called the cops on them but he took the extreme route. But yes in a typical case, you're right.
@@jamespower5165 Didn't he go to jail when the jury heard him gloating over their bodies on CCTV?
"If someone breaks into your house, there's no reason to assume they wouldn't kill you rather than get caught." Not being a fucking idiot is a pretty good reason. Knowing the slightest thing about crime statistics is another good reason. Understanding even basic human psychology is yet another.
@@Nick-hi9gx You said absolutely nothing.
Exactly if police do a no knock warrant and shoot someone preparing to defend themselves against an unknown group of attackers people are quick to say the police were in the wrong but in this case they defend the intruder
Love watching Vaush explain simple shit like “it’s ok to defend yourself in violent situations” to his chat
I can't believe basic self defense is controversial in this community
Many people who call themselves leftists are utterly without the faintest clue how violence works in the real world.
I can believe it. Full of school kids who never been in a fight or a self defense situation.
Yeah people who naïvely think that all violence can always be avoided in all situations and any occurence of violence must be the result of a personal moral/logical failing are frustrating as fuck to argue with. They just don't understand that these situations unfold randomly and unreliably and you can only expect so much from people.
These people simply won't understand until they fully realise the gravity of an immediate threat to one's life.
Just sound like a bunch of easy licks to me
Stepping behind the counter would immediately get you blown away in Chicago.
Good
@@dardick1213 I mean idk about "good" but yeah
it is what it is
nah, it's good. the abolition of property rights doesn't happen through thievery. it is neither socialist nor democratic to rob liquor stores. i'd have to know the context in which such looting and rioting is socialist or democratic.
@@latinexus Not all theft is looting.
Rioting and looting isn't Socialist, but it is akin to Democracy, as it is often an airing of grievances of sorts from the population. As MLK put it, "a riot is the language of the unheard."
Like how Paris, France has had non-stop riots for weeks following their government's authoritarian over reaches of power.
And jumping behind the counter isn't theft it's attempted assault.
Your audience member who said the robber shouldn’t have be harmed infuriated me. I’m sure they’d change their mind if they were being robbed and threatened.
There are so many left people who think like this and change laws to help the bad guys, it's disgusting.
Exactly
It's because he's black. White Americans are so much guilt ridden they automatically assume what they do is right. He could've been purple. You invade from behind, be prepared for a fight. Even more if you're alone.
They literally did one of the typical anti-Leftist, Conservative memes. I'd be surprised if that wasn't actually a LiberaI chatter.
Some sad atheist bleeding out thinking to themself "at least no one is going to judge me for resorting to violence", literally nothing to prove but dying over feeling a need to prove something.
How is this even a question? This is a textbook justified self defense case. What are we doing guys.
revealing how stupid the majority of this channel's subs are, sfaict
It's pacifist LiberaIs in chat. What do you expect?
Except it legally isn't.
@@Nick-hi9gx I've seen you in multiple comments saying the same thing but funnily enough, the DA disagrees as the worker was not charged with any crimes due to lack of evidence. So legally, yes, justified self defense.
Edit: Different sources disagree whether the DA dropped the charges, or a judge dismissed them. Point is, they aren't facing consequences.
@@TYKUHN2 The fact charges were dropped doesn't mean it is legally self-defense, it means the DA thinks they couldn't win that case.
Ain't no fucking way that dude said you actually can magically deduce intent 💀
you can INDUCE it, but that's different
I think he was kidding
If he can magically deduce intent - as in literally magically - that guy needs to start a career as a psychic right away, because he'd make a fortune off that. Without having to be the lest bit dishonest.
You do realise this was a Vaush assertion for the Rittenhouse case?
skill issue, learn telepathic mind powers
The rule I was always taught was that if a burglar has no intention of hurting people, he will leave the second he suspects someone is home. So basically if they stay when they know you are there, they are going to try to kill you.
Makes pretty good sense to me
Well..no. Because sometimes people break in thinking folks won't know they're there if it's a big enough house. Someone might break in and enter an upstairs bedroom when a party's going on downstairs.
Also if you hear burglars in the house, is it a good idea to give away your position and the information that you're awake and maybe aware they're there just to determine their intent?
@@jamespower5165while someone could break into the upper floor while a parties going on downstairs, it’s unlikely. The point is that generally, if someone wants to avoid being put in a situation where they’ll kill someone, they’ll likely avoid robbing a house with people inside. Obviously this changes depending on the context ppl are in. In poor areas someone could legitimately believe they could sneak into someone’s house undetected because the house has no windows and likely no security system.
@@jamespower5165 Sorry, but if a person is that stupid that's on them. Real life is not a game, there ain't no way in hell you can just go stealth in SOMEONE ELSE'S HOUSE
@@santiagomarin1882 You can't ultimately defend castle rules unless it's self-defence. And it's not as unrealistic as you think in bigger houses. I've seen people getting burgled in the middle of having a yard sale!
I found chat to be insufferably sheltered and unrealistic in this conversation. Especially with how oblivious they were to people's capacity for violence. For the specific case the conversation concerned I'd need to see the actual complete video. Chat was talking like every person needs to act like Thorfinn or something.
Yeah seriously. I bet they were mostly men too because I feel like most women and femme people know how scared you should be of strangers threatening you or being in your house
As a guy who’s been in a life or death situation with a man both stronger and more dangerous then me this was totally logical. Fuck chat, y’all ever think you’re gonna fucking die? Yeah feel that then tell me this man is in the wrong.
half these nerds consider losing internet for 24 hours a life or death situation.
Vaush: I think you should be able to shoot a man punching you in your bedroom going, "Mwahaha, I am going to murder you for fun."
Chat: Okay but if the man was actually a Girl Scout frolicking through your garden?
Chats response was 100% the people conservatives mean when they say liberals are "soft on crime"
Oof!
Sad but true judging on Chat.
No this is what people mean when they say online lefties don't touch grass.
@@jansettler4828 That too!
That wouldn't be so bad given what THOSE folks are like. Unfortunately these are the folks whom NORMIES would call soft on crime
Does vaushes chat actually want people to just let someone kill them if they're being attacked if they don't visibly have a weapon?
@@somad6997 ah yes I forgot Vaush’s audience is full of twinks
@@somad6997 So this is why Vaush hates bottoms, it all make sense, THE LORE THICKENS
Vaush really needs to go over sociopolitics again because it feels like some of these chatters are basically unironically saying you shouldn't harm a robber because they're probably a poor black person and idk I don't think i really need to explain how racist that whole train of thought is.
@@Voikona I mean, Vaush has gone over this so many time that I think about the only way that Vaush could (Legally) get this point across to the rest of the chat that doesn't get it, would be to spend multiple streams in a row just finding cases like this and cases that may appear like this but are actually not like this, and drilling it into the chats head that there's a difference between this and someone acting a little defiant or scared and having their blown off, by compare and contrasting the two scenarios with multiple examples for like an entire month, but given the climate (Fascist rising) that probs wouldn't be the best thing to do, but maybe after the fascist wave has passed
yes, they do.
I lived in the Bronx for many years and these bodega stores are vulnerable to SO much fuck-shit.
I think EVERY Bodega owner should have a gun in case someone tries to rob them.
These guys often occupy these businesses alone without a back exit in case of emergency.
The situation where someone is trying to rob you is fucking scary and the bodega owner absolutely should be allowed to defend themself with deadly force if necessary.
I'm just gonna say it.
Anyone criticising the Bodega worker for how he defended himself isn't a real leftist.
Yes they're anti gun liberals. They are conservative.
agreed.
FACTS
Thank you
This man here? Based as fuck.
No way. The moment he enters your workspace behind you, he's there to hurt you or worse. That's self defence. Grandpa called it right.
And NO MASK. No precautions against being identified. So good chance the risk is mortal
@@jamespower5165 Yeah, that dude didn't care about being identified or being on camera. He absolutely was planning to hurt if not kill the bodega owner. Definitely self defense.
A woman in Texas was left paralyzed a few weeks ago after a home break-in. You can tell a lot of people in chat have never truly had their sense of safety and security threatened and it shows in their responses.
Also, the people trying to argue against self defense in your home by bringing up corner cases of someone wrongly shot sound exactly like the people who tried to argue against trans woman in woman's prison because of 1 or 2 instances of someone feeling uncomfortable.
The problem is in Texas we already had self defense laws in place. I'm sorry you got hurt but so called stand your ground laws are just to easy to abuse. You'd think living in Texas like I do you'd notice the wild amount of road rage shootings, accidental shooting etc. And be like "hmm I don't think giving people an even better reason to escalate immediately to deadly force in this gun happy hellhole is a great idea."
it's simple, you just let people do what they want break in, hurt you, take your stuff, anything they want with no means of defense/s
TBH, I unironically think if someone is shoplifting that's exactly how it should be handled. Sit back, let them steal, wait for the cops or let them deal with them later. As soon as they pose a threat or engage with somebody, different story. This dude was not shoplifting, he entered the store to physically confront/assault the worker.
@@ZeusJuicy2 I mean, I don't know, I think that's a VERY idealistic way of looking at it, if someone can just walk in and start stealing and you do nothing, it's not uncommon that you become known for being that one store people can rob without pushback, and for that to domino into people stealing being a regular thing and people not feeling safe to shop in your store, if they have guns and are stealing sure, stay away, but if they just walk in take whatever they want and walk out and you don't at least pretend to try to stop them (Like at least acknowledge they're there, or threaten them or something) that might backfire, remember, pacifism is seen by some as a virtue and others as an opportunity to exploit someone, also this is just for if someone is entering your business to steal, if they break into your home (Specifically home, if they're in your backyard or something it's a massive grey area cause of stalking not being seen as that big of a deal) I think it's fair to shoot them, a store is one thing, your home is another, if they start running away you lose any right to claim self defense, but until then you have 200% justification to fear for your life
shoplifting sure, this is a few steps past shoplifting
@@ZeusJuicy2 don’t you think there is a difference between someone walking out of a retail store with items unpaid and someone forcibly entering your house in the middle of the night? The scale difference is vast
@@khbgkh
They just said that. Look at the last bit of their comment
Clearly self defense. Wtf is up w/ chat. This isn’t like police unnecessary escalating a confrontation
I remember a story about an old man who tried to deescalate a fight or something in a store and one of the guys pushed him and he died so the guy who said shuving an old man isn't bad has no idea what he is talking about.
Is chat rushing to the defense of the robber because they see him as the less powerful party in this situation? Like, the bodega worker should have just stood down and let the robber rob and/or kill him because he has a managerial position (maybe), and the robber doesn't? The number of stupid arguments in this segment from chat is hitting the stupidity event horizon.
I have found a a large swath of people who pretend to understand sociological concepts don't understand the difference between interpersonal and systemic actions.
@Boomzy if anything they make too much of the distinction. it's wrong to defend yourself against interpersonal violence because 'it's not systemic.'
The moral of the story, self-defense is always valid when an assault is taking place. There is no ambiguity here, if someone attacks you, they've forfeited their own rights to health and safety. Whether the victim of assault takes their defense to a lethal point or not is up to their discretion and for the courts to decide if it was valid.
Also, buy a flashlight attachment to your weapon so that mistakes are minimized in a night home defense situation. Don't shoot your kids folks.
Don't leave your family's side to protect your tv.
@@Sam_Guevenne This is more debatable. That's an expensive fucking tv.
@@AsobiMedio Fair point
Damn it's like none of Vaushs chat has ever lived in a dangerous area or had to face any sort of threat
Gives me that Mr. Girl energy, where they would just "talk to the robber and make them see the error of their ways" and nobody would get hurt or some bullshit like that
Chat thinks they could uncle Iroh their way out of a deadly situation.
Me, bleeding out: "I was like you once."
chat after finding out social situations aren't undertale
vast majority of them are white.
@@PrismaAce Holy shit, that's it, isn't it? I'm like 3 months late but why are you completely right? "Haven't you tried the [TALK] option first??"
Like honestly, I don't know what infestation of brainworms Vaush's chat had during this stream but it was _bad._
I remember the first time this was "debated". Half of the people blaming the bodega worker, claiming they wouldn't use a force amplifier, absolutely would if they were in the same scenario. The other half of you apparently would rather die in a home invasion than risk killing the *home invader*. I hope you don't have a partner or kids that live with you. You wanna sacrifice your own life for moral purity, fine, but if there are other people under your care you don't get that luxury anymore.
The issue isn't the prospect of killing a home invader, it's that Vaush gleefully jokes about mowing them down. "I don't know how many intruders there are or what weapons they have, but I'm gonna gleefully start a John Wick gunfight, that's gonna end well for me and my loved ones bro"
@@TheChiefOrg13 I don't think that's a fair characterization of the segment. If you find his dark humour (probably amplified by the shock at how many ludicrous arguments were being made in chat) distasteful - that's fine. But hyper focusing on that rather than the disturbing number of naive people thinking you can Sherlock Homes your way out of a dangerous situation is obfuscating the larger point. Come on, you know Vaush wouldn't be happy about having to use any level of self-defense, much less lethal force. Sorry he's not hand-wringing enough for you.
@@darkmoon_dawg If you want to focus on the broader points, I can do that too. Vaush admits that you don't know about the home invader's capabilities, etc. So why is immediately engaging them in a gunfight a good idea? Suppose you see someone breaking down the door and immediately start blasting. So you kill one intruder. What if there are other intruders outside the periphery of the door/the sides of the house that you didn't get? Now you've exposed your position and who knows what kind of guns THEY have
Putting aside the humour, his strategy of immediately engaging a potential threat seems like it has a great deal of potential of harm for you and your loved ones.
As an aside, I've received temp bans from Vaush's subreddit for being overly critical of Vaush's friends (Shoe, etc), so I thought Vaush was a big fan of handwringing
@@TheChiefOrg13
A person breaking into someone house does not get to choose how the homeowner defends themself or their property. They have forfeited their right to civility.
The person broke into their house which is a death threat. Period.
If you break into someone's home, you broke the social contract and you absolutely deserve to get shot. Maybe you dont deserve to die, but that's often the result of a gunshot.
Maybe don't threaten people. Maybe don't break into people's houses. It really is that simple.
@@TheChiefOrg13 That last paragraph makes this sound personal. You don't have to like Vaush. What *I* find distasteful is the idea of being in a potentially life threatening situation (which I have been btw, thankfully didn't need to fire and wasn't the party that was armed at the time - it was my dad) and then having outside whataboutism people victim blame me for defending myself.
Whether it's a home invasion or street assault, if you are being attacked, and there's a reasonable chance your life is in danger (which everyone's perception of is going to be slightly different and there is only gray area there, hence why both castle doctrine and stand your ground still has cases where you can be charged if your judgement is seen as unreasonable by the DA) you are simply NOT going to make perfect judgement calls. But you have to do something. Vaush wasn't arguing to "immediately light up" somebody at first shot in every scenario - he's arguing for the right to the judgement call. It's all case by case. If for example, you *have* an upstairs in your home and you and your family are already up there - maybe wait at the top of the stairs or barricade yourself in a top room and only fire if they go upstairs. If you don't have an upstairs, and they break in and your within eyeshot of them - maybe you have less time and less options.
In your example if there's a whole party of heavily armed robbers invading your home - you and I would probably both hide first. But if you can't escape off the property, if your barricaded in a room - they're gonna find you eventually. And then you have to decide - are you more likely to survive if you fire on them - and I either get them to flee or succesfully kill them? Or are you more likely to survive when they tie you up and do god knows what to you and yours? Either way you take a gamble. But I think once I've exhausted all my other 'least resistance options' I'd rather gamble where I still have some degree of agency. And the same way I wouldn't blame you for getting killed or any other horrible things happening to you from surrendering, I would HOPE you wouldn't blame me for acting in self defense. Because we're the victims.
The old guy was cornered in that small space. He couldn't even avoid it.
Even if he could, the dude came back once. If the aggressor is still around, he could come back with a gun from his car before police arrive. Stabbing him was the most self-preservation move he could do. I'm not even gonna touch morals or laws. The man wanted to survive and he did. That's that.
@@JokerDoom yup!
I remember following this case months ago when it happened, and I found it crazy that his original bond was $500,000 and he was placed in Rikers Island. What’s more is that the black guy’s girlfriend stabbed the bodega worker in the arm and she faced no charges.
It's like the shoot them in the gun meme, but it's a knife and it's real life smfh
Yea cases like this literally make democrats look soft on crime. Having to explain it to voters legit took years off my fucking life
Well, she was trying to stop someone being killed.
If your friend starts a fight with an old man and gets stabbed, you would not try to stop them being killed, even though they shouldn't have started the fight with the older weaker opponent?
@@dorianleakey if my friend started beating the shit out of someone randomly with no justification then I would also immediately reconsider if I should be around that person. She saw the whole interaction and knew what prompted it so there’s no reason to defend the person committing assault here even if you know them.
Well, the guy is Hispanic but looks white. And it's a knife crime so it's not a good look overall. There's a good chance of false rumors and a riot situation. So they get him out of there for his own safety. Also they charge him immediately which is always good. It's when they don't charge you that it means they don't believe you and are trying to build a case against you. And the mayor comes out in support of him the next day which he would only do after checking in with the DA's office
As for the girlfriend, her assault probably wasn't on camera. And then of course they'd they'd need time to build a case, and the Bodega guy's testimony and he might have had enough and just wanted it to end. if she's a first time offender they might just ask her to take an anger management class and she'll only be charged if she refuses. Or she might be a parolee in which case instead of charging her for a specific crime they just write it up as a parole violation. Lots of reasons not to charge someone for a minor consequences crime. And of course in that emotionally charged situation, it would be more understandable for someone to do something a little crazy. Overall law enforcement seems to have done its job properly and proportionally
Chat being ageist LARPers for 45 minutes.
Vaush's chat is either A: so lonely that they want criminals to feel safe when breaking into their home
B: really want to safely break into break into someone else's home.
Or C: they just stupid.
It's C.
"desperate crime done by a desperate person"
Yeah, that would work if the guy had just gone in, stolen some food, and ran, never touched the bodega clerk. If he was desperate for food, and simply stolen an object, that would not be as bad and nothing worth getting stabbed over.
But he went in, went right behind the counter, and attacked him. When the bodega clerk was on the ground, he kept on attacking. This isn't a crime of desperation.
The fact that so many people in chat had to go down the dialogue tree of home invaders is a bit of a self report. You can tell none of these people are actually homeowners.
Has nothing to do with homeowners, this is virtue signalling paired with serious grass deficiency
Or have been in dangerous situations, or know people that have been the victims of violent attacks.
Or that they would just be easy targets to steal from. It's not like they're gonna do anything but run to Vaush anyway.
Its not just about threat to your life, it's your entire well-being. It's why I'd defend someone who killed someone who had the intent to steal their legs or sexually assault them, even if the person wasn't going to kill you.
This. Even if you magically know they have no intention of killing you, if someone's going to hurt you and lethal force is necessary to stop them, you're 100% justified in killing them. They chose to attack you, it's on them.
Your leg bones, hand 'em over
@@flaskhjertako "Never" (unloads a tactical nuke on you)
10:00 “I think levying the charges in the first place was insane.”
Self-defense is a trial argument. The local DA has discretion over whether or not to charge, but it’s pretty common for incidents ending in a death to get charged and later dropped for self-defense.
Yup, its how stand your ground laws are supposed to work.
You will, obviously, be charged, then in court, you will enter your plea of self-defense and your arguments on how this was self-defense, why you felt the need to defend yourself, etc.
Its why i hated the rittenhouse trial.
Self defense shouldnt have been fought. They should have brought vigilantism charges, which, in that particular case, would have a good chance of over ruling self-defense.
Also being quickly charged is a good sign. If they just arrest you and don't charge you immediately, that means they're trying to build a case against you
The laws/procedure here in Canada are probably different but I witnessed a very obvious self defence murder where a huge naked man had a woman by the hair and trying to wrestle her to the ground in front of my apartment building and she was stabbing him while screaming in horror. They charged her because they had to call it technically a "murder" before the witnesses ( including me until 5 am the next day at the police office) were questioned and the evidence was gathered so that the prosecutor could make an informed decision. Which he did within a few days by dropping the charges.
@@IRGeamer Yes I think people misinterpret getting charged. If they immediately charge you, that means they think you're innocent. They're not trying to take time to build their case. If they wait the legal limit after arrest, that's bad because they are trying to build a case. The worst case is when they arrest you and let you go just making it legally necessary(or highly recommended) for you to inform them of your whereabouts, get a court order to cancel your passport etc. That means they're think it's worth the investigative time and effort to take a really long time(6 months to several years) to build a case against you. That's when things are really bad
That's probably why the man's gf wasn't charged. There probably wasn't any video evidence of that and they'd need time to build a case. Plus if that person was on parole or something, the parole violation would be sufficient and any new charge would just be a waste of police and/or court time. And if she was a first time offender sometimes they'll just tell you to go to anger management or something and only charge you if you refuse
Chatters don’t understand that being assaulted isn’t like the intro of some street fighter shit where you get health bars and know the other guy only has his fists. As soon as the robber put his hands on the worker and also making a fight the only means to escape the situation, it can be nothing but a self defense situation and lethal force is your only guarantee to not be killed. It is a white lib take to think a person initiating violence, or creating a situation where you are beholden to whatever violence they choose to do to you, ought be protected over the victim. I am convinced that only those that have never been in a violent confrontation could think otherwise. No appreciation for how dangerous human beings are and how easy it is to maim or kill someone.
I almost got robbed outside a wedding venue a couple of months ago. It was my brothers wedding which was in not the best area of town, I was slightly drunk and slightly high (like a 3/10), wearing a suit which I hated because I hate formal wear and I knew it makes me stick out like a vulnerable sore thumb, and I was walking back to the venue after walking my girlfriend back from the car (she dropped me off right by the door). Immediately after my girlfriend pulled away, this random dude came up to me talking “I’m not gonna rob you, my girls giving birth around the corner and I need help”, aka he was going to rob me. I tried to jog to the door we came out of, but it was locked from the outside. It took him 10 seconds to get from 30 feet away, to suddenly being 5 feet away. I tried to stall, hoping that if I was nice to him I could manage a miracle since I had no weapon on me (and I didn’t want to bluff and get fucking killed for it without a chance to defend myself), and luckily it worked because my dad pulled up and immediately brandished his gun at him and was yelling at him. The dude backed up and left. Turns out the dude had been working with another person and they were threatening and harassing multiple ppl coming out of the wedding venue with a MACHETE.
I used to think that it’s cowardly to carry a gun when going out, but now I’ll never go anywhere without a knife at least (I don’t own a gun yet). If I had a weapon that night, it would’ve come in handy cause I could’ve died that night if it weren’t for my dad. Also fuck wearing suits, I genuinely believe that I was targeted, at least in part, because I was wearing a suit and looked like I had some money.
I can not blame someone for killing or harming another in self defense, fearing for your life at the hands of another is a hell of a thing that you can’t understand unless it’s happened to you.
I suppose I shouldn’t say “fearing for your life” considering I still don’t think I was “scared” per say, but my adrenaline was pumping and I didn’t want to fight or run cause I didn’t know if he had a gun or a knife (I could tell he was hiding a weapon of some kind). If I had a gun or even a knife, I would’ve been much bolder in telling that guy off. My point is just that you don’t understand the feeling of being subjected to another will without being able to defend yourself, unless it’s happened to you. It’s easy to say “oh why didn’t you just fight”, and it’s not so easy to fight when they have weapons and you don’t.
Man, it must be hard being Vaush having a community that lives in some video game fantasy world with no idea what reality is like when a genuine threat to your life is present.
Idk what else he expected, he gets paid to play video games while rallying for a Socialist worker's revolution.
I mean what do you expect from twitch viewers? They've got hours of free time to watch streams, clearly don't get out much.
@@hex9077 It's not twitch, it's his personal site chat.
@@felicityc wait, fr? Oh my god that's fucking hilarious
Vaush's position on Rittenhosue was that he should have submitted to the mob and let them beat him to death. How the turns have tabled.
It's wild how chat would just lay down and die for the safety of the criminal who attacked you first lmfao
Vaush describing a violence and having a cat on his shoulder is probably the most pirate thing he can do
Chat comes off really really dumb here. If you ever work in customer service, you know how just the act of coming behind the counter alone is terrifying, let alone enacting violence. As a femme person, one time an older man who was certainly weaker than me cane behind the counter to sexually harass me. Even though I knew I was stronger, I was still terrified. I cant image the fear of a much bigger, stronger man doing the same thing
I love how VGG chat always seem to be sharing one single brain-cell, and everyone thinks someone else is currently using it.
I think when you are in a life and death situation, even if the attacker is on the ground trying to get away, you don't know if he's retreating to grab a weapon and come back. You only know that the physical altercation has escalated to a lethal point, and you just want to live on so you can go see your family again. This man didn't ask to be shoved into a life threatening situation, it happened to him.
I've worked retail in a store that experienced a good deal of shoplifting. We would find empty packaging in the bathrooms, people would switch price tags, hide things on their person, or just bolt out of the store.
None of these shoplifters went behind the registers where cashiers were or physically assaulted my coworkers. The shoplifter who is willing to use physical force is a totally different different type of criminal from a run of the mill shoplifter and way more dangerous.
I haven't left my house and had a human interaction in 2 years, but even I am not this fcking out of touch with reality as Vaush's chat
Leyla leave your house please :)
Tips on how to get to the point where I can do that too?
@@descendantofartorias2067 Do you need tips or do you know and aren't able? :P
To be fair, Japanese people with cameras could be capable of exorcisms and those two could be ghosts. Don't you guys know Fatal Frame?
Tru!
You back me into a corner like that and I'm not going to wait around to see if you mean to murder me or just assault me. And I'm the kind of person who agrees with cashiers letting armed robbers take what they want. The money in the register might not be worth a human life, but the life of the cashier certainly is.
Forget about laws and societal norms, this is primal, subconscious, laws of nature type stuff, . Anyone with half a brain knows if you corner an animal it'll fight back with everything it's got, same if you go into an animal's den. You do something like that and civilization flies out the window, it's lizard brain time: tooth, nail and anything you can get your hands on.
Vaush is throwing out epic villain vibes with that cat on his shoulder.
Mr. Bigglesworth just wanted to lurk in chat.
@@desdenova1 Vwosh KT confirmed ???? 💯😤💀
22:25 Thank you Vaush, "FIST TIIIME" is unironically the hardest I have laughed in weeks. I was genuinely crying and laughing for 3 whole minutes. Then I watched again and was incapacitated for a further 2 minutes.
Thank god Vaush was on the right side on this, and his patience with Chat is saint like. Unironically victim blaming and demonization of the basic right of self defense.
Real fucking weird for leftists to think the state should have a monopoly on the use of violence. Or should no one be able to do anything when someone attacks someone else? Chat is full of kids.
If you run up and get done up, you have no one to blame but yourself
I find it so strange when other leftists argue that attacking a person that breaks into your home is unethical and then say something like you value their lives less than your belongings which completely misses the point. If they break into your personal space they pose a direct threat to your safety. Nobody will just accept getting harmed or the threat of harm just like that
Idiots are assuming you’re defending your PlayStation or your dildo collection. No - the point is defending your life or your family’s life because someone could be coming there just to kill you. I know people who’ve had to shoot their exes who tried to murder them. You don’t have time to reason intent in that case. Speaking for home invasion obviously. If someone wants to do a smash and grab on a car obviously they don’t deserve to be killed.
I genuinely value the life of someone who breaks into another person's house less than possessions. It's one of the worst crimes you can commit.
The human life is sacred, but so is the axiom "Fuck around and find out."
Chat is fucking bonkers
Literally had a 60+ year old coworker nearly beat to death in a similar event. Literally stopped the guy to see a receipt and pow sucker punched the old guy and started wailing on him while he was on the ground. Shit was crazy
Generally speaking, laws on violent crime and self defence tend to hinge them self on- Did the person have a genuine belief that they were going to be seriously hurt or killed, did that person have other ways to solve the issue, and is their fear reasonable-
This is an old man, cornered in a very small space by a young man much larger than him, in a context in which it would be perfectly reasonable to assume that the man had intent to harm and a weapon. I don't see how anyone could argue self defence is not or ought not be applicable here.
I don't see how anyone could argue self defence is not or ought not be applicable here."
Legally, they couldn't. There is simply no case whatsoever to be made, full stop.
Poor Vaush has the patience of a saint, i would have simply called chat eurocucks and ended stream like 10% of the way through the castle doctrine stunlock in his position
These people in chat arguing against this would 100% change their opinion if they got attacked
Shooting to wound is a bad idea, aim center mass to avoid missing or a stray bullet. The safety of yourself and others is top priority, the safety of the intruder has NO priority.
Good of them to drop the charges. It's a grown man resorting to violence because he was offended the store owner wouldn't pay for his (or partners) child's candy; that's moronic. Seems many non-violent types in this chat would gladly allow themselves to be viciously beaten over a candy bar.
I've never hated Vaushs chat more than I do in this video
If someone broke into my house at 4 AM, while my family was asleep, and I had a _gun,_ I would absolutely open fire. It's happened to us before and my brother was traumatised. It's not like the whole situation couldn't be avoided, just don't break into people's houses while they're probably _in_ them.
And I don't fantasize about this, mind you. I'm not a trigger happy American. I hope to the gods this never happens. But if it came to that I would leave the ethical theory behind to protect my family.
Why was chat being so difficult in this one? Lol. The fact that Vaush had to even defend the validity of the Castle Doctrine or self defense that much is wild. Good for Vaush for standing his ground. 👍🏿
Leftist love criminals
Especially seeing a few of his mods disagreeing with him is just wow
The castle doctrine is different. That means I can tie up trespassers and kill them over a period of time just as long as they trespassed. That's NOT OKAY
@@Voikona oh God, I need to look at the discord response.
“Just run bro” - because you’re going to beat the guy you would lose a physical confrontation with in a 100 meter sprint. Come on, think. Running away, if the person does wish to harm you, only makes your situation worse by showing your back to them and getting caught in a bad position to fight. Attempting to escape your own home with unknown intruders, as an ethical or legal requirement, is contradictory: either they are a reasonable threat to your life and you should be able to use lethal force or they are not a reasonable threat to your life and thus have no reason to flee. You run because they can kill you, and running might only make that easier.
This has to be the most unhinged chat has ever been. It’s so obvious that these kids have never had a near death experience being jumped by a group or an individual who’s much stronger than you. Hardline pacifism is out the window if you live in a dangerous neighborhood.
If someone breaks in your house they've already signaled that they don't care about your safety or your life and so you are under no obligation to care about theirs.
"Just let him burgle the place!"
The scent of privilege from that sentiment is intoxicating.
Its the correct course of action usually. The only time you should defend yourself is when your life is actually at risk.
If i am being burgled, take what you will, just don’t enter the bedroom, or even touch the door handle. Since that’s endangering me and by extension, you.
@@tillburr6799 When do you know when you are endangered?
@@britishrocklovingyank3491 thankfully i went over that already
Ah! What if I want to go into your bedroom to take the TV but not touch you?
@@britishrocklovingyank3491 again. Refer to my original comment
If the thief was white man named Cletus with MAGA hat from Alabama and the clerk was black man, the chat wouldn't be saying anything against self defense
Those good intentioned people saying castle doctrine causes more harm has certainly never experienced a break in or experienced sudden direct harm.
I’m not going to assume you’ve good intentions if you break into my home. What kind of unhinged behavior and ridiculous assumption to make.
Fight or flight will kick in and id make sure they’re neutralized before I find out their intent for showing up uninvited
That cat was SOOO happy
You guys, if someone breaks into your house in the middle of the night, just press X to activate detective vision and see their state of mind and if they have any guns on them 👍
Instructions unclear, now stuck in debug room - send help.
@@desdenova1 Try double tapping X see if that helps.
Don't forget to cast the "Scan" spell to see the robber's stats, weaknesses, and most importantly, his intentions.
People are arguing in chat you don't have the right to use lethal force during a home invasion?
Its about whether the bodega worker was reasonable in fearing for his life. Doesn’t matter if he has a weapon.
Chat seems to think if you’re being attacked, just accept death - wtf?
What was up with Chat this time?
Weren't a lot of chatters for fire-arm ownership or other forms of potentially lethal means of self-defense for Trans-People in case of some far-right attacks? Vaush already mentioned the "No-Knock" Cop nonsense and they supported lethal self-defense against the Police too in that case.
Why should it be any different in Home Break-ins or cases of being assaulted where you can reasonably see yourself dying in?
Well you see, the attacker in this case was black.... so....
SDL has a sizeable audience overlap with Vaush and SDL is insufferably anti-firearm.
Because apparently hate crimes are the only ones that should be considered legally punishable😐
Win the prizes for the games you play. The way she goes.
Braindead chat reaction here. Everyone who's running anti castle doctrine have never been in a situation like this. Someone who's broken into my house has already done harm to me and my livelihood, by crossing that barrier, by forcing entry, that is tacitly forfeiting your legal protection.
Watching a man defend himself from an assault during a burglary and focusing on the fact that its a burglary and ignoring the assault
You don't even have to be small and attacked by some big tough guy. One of the toughest most feared fighters I ever met, a guy I worked with for years doing security and doorman work, died when a girl he pissed off shoved him, he slipped on a patch of ice, and cracked his skull open on a curb in front of 7/11. I came into work, asked where he was, and was told he was in the hospital and not expected to live. An hour later we heard he was dead.
Incidentally, the pissed off girl was any because he was not the crack dealer she was waiting for, he got out of his car she started yelling at him that she had been waiting for an hour, got in his face, he said get out of my face I'm not your guy and she shoved him. Thats it.
Violence is always a lethal threat. ALWAYS.
Chat took stupid pills for this segment holy shit.
Chat is 100% looking this as a racial issue about how the robber is black and must be poor and suffering and all that bullshit. Its such a patronizing, racist idea, I'm not even sure they realize how racist it is.
The only disagreement I have is that Vaush thinks in another place where there are no firearms, you don't need castle doctrine. A person with a knife in your home is still an extreme threat.
Vaush's chat legitimately thinks self defense is morally wrong. Jesus fucking christ.
It is really amazing how many people will just suggest you have no right to self defense. They forget that if it's a situation of retreat or die/ get seriously hospitalized that retreat might not be an option and that asking people to die for your values is an absolute garbage take. Not to mention that retreat from or allowing a robbery to occur could leave you in a financial situation that could lead to homelessness or death. There's times when I'd have had to defend myself over the six hundred in my pocket if I wanted to not be living under a freeway overpass The week after
Every person upset about clerks defending themselves from robbers should be forced to watch that video of the clerk doing everything the robber told him to do, sitting on the ground with his hands up, and then the robber as he’s getting ready to go just putting a bullet in the back of the clerk’s skull and leaving him for dead. Absolute braindead terminally online leftist shit coming from chat being upset about someone defending themself in a potentially deadly situation. It’s not your job to GUESS whether someone actively and intentionally endangering you in a crime is going to kill you or not.
Some part of it is about logistics though, not ethics. Yes, that happened but it's a much lower probability than if the guy had resisted the robber. In that case, he was certain to attract violence
@@jamespower5165 Cool. If we wanna play logistics then logistically if you act with violence before they get the chance to enact violence on you, your odds of not being severely injured or killed are substantially higher than if they were to be the first one to enact violence on you.
And it is not your fucking job to play a dice roll with your life on whether or not "logistically" this is one of the instances where the person actively intentionally committing a dangerous crime against you is not going to hurt you. If you are given a dice in which 5 of the 6 sides lead to no harm coming to you but 1 of the 6 sides leads to your death, I'm not going to roll said dice just because the odds are in my favor that it would land on the not killing me side, I'm gonna take a fucking hammer and bash the dice in.
Chat instantly lost the next three arguments they have wish Vaush thanks to this video.
And a chatter said it, the castle doctrine and self defense are very different. If someone comes "Here is Johnny" you can defend yourself regardless where that happens, at home, a friend's home or a public restroom. The castle doctrine says you might defend the home it self with lethal force even if you're life is safe.
How would you determine if your life was in danger in that situation
@@willowwright4638 it's a personal judgement, i'm sure OP thinks that the case in question was self defense
@@willowwright4638 For example whether they approach me, or my TV
But there is also a castle-in-self-defence doctrine right? That's what Vaush seems to advocate. Where for example there are multiple invaders, and you kill every single one of them in a way that the local context of any one killing is obviously NOT self-defence(you snuck up on them from behind) but the overall context was one where you genuinely believed it was them or you
@@boredstudent9468 cool dog, where do you live, I want a free tv
Wow it's astounding to me that people thought this was controversial. If the attacker was white chat wouldn't have had this reaction.
This segment really puts on blast how vaush’s twitch audience is made up of sheltered suburban kids
if someone throws you to the ground, you absolutely have the right to fight back.
Vaush: Breaking into someone's house is an act of violence and inherently a threat to those who live there.
Chat: But murder is bad.
I laughed so hard my lungs hurt when Vaush goes: "Hey you know what time it is??? FIST TIME!!! ✊ 👊 👊 ✊"
certified Vaush Banger.
Don't get me wrong I don't think that a farmer or homeowner should be able murder someone who accidentally steps on their lawn , but if someone breaks into your business or home , u have the right to blow them away or beat them down unless they literally cower and beg for their life , of course u don't kill someone u know isn't going to fight back
Then you agree with castle doctrine. That shit doesn't cover property that isn't habited
@@aldenkahl8703 I agree with self defense and of course I think someone should exercise as much restraint as they can , but I don't care what stupid castle doctrine says is or isn't okay , of course u should de escalate situations and try to end them non violently and just cause someone is a theif doesn't mean they are violent , but an old man being attacked in his house or a public business is a stupid distinction, and yes if someone retreats u stop but acting like a man defending himself needs to go to jail after getting attacked is insane
@@aldenkahl8703 I'm speaking as someone who has had my own brother threaten to kill me for years cause I didn't walk all around town and give him all my money for drugs and chase me around with a knife , and had other people do the same and I let them beat the shit out of me and never fight back , but if I did fight back do I deserve to go to jail but they don't?!!! Smh