Agreed!! I'm 45 and facing these same issues. I had to remember, the best advocate is yourself and your game. If your feel any difference, open that conversation with your PSO. I did the same with my PSO and he instantly came to the same conclusion about my flexibility in my fingers and started adjusting my pitches. My PSO is truly my "Bowling Doctor"
As a 1h bowler I used 0 when I was teens thru 20s. Moved to 1/8 reverse in my 30s, and a 1/4 reverse in my 40s. Switched from 1h righty to 2h lefty last year, and find that I need more reverse due to more the wrist being cupped more. I’ve bumped it up to 1/2 reverse for now, and may go a touch farther.
I'm so glad I watched this video before my first ever coaching session today, Thanks JR! I had a session today with a great coach and found out that my span is too long and finger pitches are off, I've been having a huge problem of getting the ball off my hand clean and spinning the crap out of it. I threw one of the coaches balls and wow what a difference, more revs and effortless power. It's fantastic that we discovered this, (I told him that my finger nails were pushing against the backside of the grip) but very upsetting that my local PSO has been drilling all my balls incorrectly for the past year, now it's going to cost a small fortune to get 9 or 10 balls fixed.
I'm 1 inch away on my fingers. Changed it when I came back from a decade absence. My Rev rate is about the same. But I'm way more nice to it now. Hand is way more relaxed. Good stuff JR.
I just drilled a ball with 1" reverse for myself to try it, always had 1/8" reverse but as I'm getting older (43) I am feeling the pressure, so I am trying 1", I feel like I could go more. What do you do about trimming down the grips to get them flush?
I honestly cant thank you enough for this video. I took a very long break with bowling. Just got back into it and bought a new ball. Get it drilled felt great for a game or 2 then started feeling pains come to find out thumb hole was too big. Fix that problems from another one of your videos. Then find pains in my fingers which brought me to this video. Your very informative videos have taught me so much and improved my game tremendously. Keep videos like this coming us viewers appreciate it more than words could ever explain. THANK YOU!!
I'm old and my fingers are not flexible. I have bee through the mill last 5 years with pitch and span changes. At one point I did what you are suggesting and it didn't work for me. I lost carry. Now I am shortening my span with quite a bit of forward pitch and ball hits better. I'd go even more forward and shorter and I did try it but the finger holes started rubbing on the backside of my fingers.
Spot on. I'm 58. Keep an eye on your grip and pitch changes work. Being a lower rev rate bowler, i use Vise bio skin on middle finger for extra traction. Didn't like it on ring finger because it hung in too much and i could feel the over strain throughout my finger. Getting old sucks, but not a show stopper.
First week of September I'll be getting with my pso for refit and switchable thumbs on 9 balls. Going to vaccu grips as well. Going to have him drill them in such a way that if I want to adjust my pitch/span on the fly, I will just swap out grips and thumbs. My fingers are larger in winter and taping my fingers wears out grips too fast. So having winter grips/thumbs and summer I might keep my consistency up.
great vid. After bowling a lot lately, tourneys, league, subbing in league, My hand has been hurting. Everything in this video explained what i'm experiencing
Thank you for this discussion JR. My ball release since my 20 year long absence from the sport has been the definition of inconsistent. I never knew anything about the angle of the finger pinch and how it could affect my release. I always come away from your videos with new knowledge and I'm very appreciative for all of your insights. I hope 2023 will bring you prosperity in wealth and more importantly health.
I'm experiencing similar right now. Went from 1/8 under to 5/8 reverse over 6 months. While comfortable, I did notice i could probably benefit going to 7/8-1in reverse with slightly longer span. Plug work cost so much today. I dont know where to start.
Had this change made with my fit change today. I work with my hands everyday and don't have the flexibility I used to have. I have a very strong grip but don't have that elasticity
I just went to 3/8 away on my last 2 balls. Have also been oversizing the top 3/4" of the hole to allow for some swelling on morning shifts or on long days. Made a huge difference in how my hand feels.
Good information. 57 yrs old and having problems with thumb but not fingers. Wonder if I could get PSO to move thumb pitch to alleviate pain in bottom half of thumb below palm.
I changed my pitches from 5/8th towards the palm to 7/8th away from the palm and wow what a difference it totally allows the ball to roll off my hand way smoother and I believe I'm landing the ball like an air plane coming in for a landing like they say. I'm 54 and flexibility has really changed.
Great video JR. I've noticed that all my balls suffer from this. Essentially too long of span as well as not enough reverse in the fingers. This puts a lot of pressure on the nail of the finger and the whole finger itself. I actually am recovering from an A2 pulley injury caused by exactly this. I need to take my balls in to have the ring finger dropped an 1/8" span as well as have more reverse pitch and potentially even more forward in the thumb. I think it's an old philosophy that some PSO drillers have carried over from the old days of long span and lifting through the ball vs. the new modern fit era of relaxed grip.
So for me, since I get the ball into more of a forward roll, my thumb is reverse pitch while my fingers are forward pitched. Helps me clear the thumb quick, while not missing my hit on the bottom.
How far are you from Columbus Ohio I live in eastern KY and I know where Wayne Webb's House is. I know you are in Michigan so how many hours are you from there
I wish there was a pro shop guy here in kansas who views grip fit like you. I've been having problems with my grip and trying to explain that to someone without being looked at like im crazy is frustrating as a bowler.
Great video and well timed. Went bowling with my daughter yesterday after not having bowled for several years. When I was last bowling (a couple leagues a week), I had started having pain and swelling in my second knuckle on my ring finger. Hoped it would have gone away after a 5 year lay-off, but it was quite bad after 2 games yesterday. Going to see the pro shop next week and will look at some reverse for both fingers, but more for the ring finger. I suspect my arsenal is at 0 (or maybe 1/8 reverse), can't recall anymore.
I just turned 60 and I am left handed, 215 average bowler in Iowa. For the longest time my PSO tried to get me to shorten my span. I finally gave in about a year ago and also dropped from 15 to 14lbs. The only real issue now, is I have been having issues with the muscle in my thumb. It is only come up recently and I took about a month off from bowling from mid May till mid June. Then I started the Kids Bowl Free with my granddaughters and the thumb issue started. Now that I bowl 2 games a day pretty much Monday-Friday, the thumb issue has gone away. So, I really get what you were saying here and I believe bowlers should really listen to their PSO reps.
Would shortening the span help? I had my arsenal span shortened. Not sure if I like the roll I'm getting. I was splitting open on my ring finger and suggested changing my grip. He said that my span was too long. I'm not tearing at the finger joint, but the release is way faster than before. What do you think??
I’ve been working with my local pro shop operator lately on my finger and thumb pitches. I’m getting close to 73 now, and my speed and rev rate a much lower than they were when I quit bowling around 1990. I’ve been at it now for about 16 months and most of my newer equipment was drilled to match my old equipment. My thumb was 3/4”-5/8” away from the palm, but is now at 3/8” away, and my fingers are at 0-1/8” away. Maybe I should try a little more pitch away on my fingers. I’ll have to play around with it and see what happens. Good catch on the flexibility change issue!
LOVE this video J.R. I’ve been struggling with some finger pain and recently increased my finger pitches to 1/2 on middle finger & 1/4 on ring. I’m 65 with VERY little flexibility on those fingers after 50 years of bowling. I’m now going to increase the pitch a bit more on both. Shouldn’t you also reduce your span when increasing pitches?
Pitches in fingers are opposite thumb. So reverse in the fingers is what you want. The forward/reverse is in relation to the core of the ball, not the direction your fingers point. For a relaxed grip, more forward pitch in the thumb, more reverse in the fingers, as well as slightly shorter span to accommodate for hand flexibility. Check out this diagram if you are still confused i.imgur.com/dcwCYR4.png
Thanks for this video because I've been trying to figure out why my bowling fingers are getting these pretty good calluses by the 1st knuckle which makes it painful and hard to bend my fingers especially the middle finger. It starting happening when I turn 50.
Currently at 1/4 reverse.. my PSO suggested to increase to 1/2 reverse, but in my mind I feel like I will "lose" the ball ( as you mentioned) and will grab the ball... enjoy your content , keep it rollin
so this is perfect timing. I have been having this issue for a while with my fingers. I have had autoimmune shit for years and have not been able to close my fingers down for some time. My fingers are to the point it hurts to bowl but I keep doing it. I am 46 and love this sport. But it is so funny you mentioned this because I just was telling my pro shop guy how my fingers was. He told me I need to pitch them away on my new ball I am getting and if it helps he can plug and change pitch on the rest of them. I am poor and cant afford to replace them all. LOL But at the very least it tells me he knows a little bit about what he is doing. Thanks for the video!
My ring finger Is always sore. I am at 1/4 away with Index and 3/8 away on ring. Have noticed a lot less flexibility In my ring. Would going 5/8 away In ring be too much or no ? I am 3/16 reverse In the thumb.
I can tell you that I personally have less flexibility in my ring finger compared to my middle finger. It’s night & day. I’ve also always used a shorter span on my ring finger too because I had burn marks on the pad of my ring finger. With that being said I’m currently at 1/4 reverse in my middle finger and 3/4 reverse in my ring finger.
I have been playing with my grip for a while now and it is frustrating. My coach had me set my pitches down from 1" to 3/4" and now my fingernails are dragging on the back of the ball. I had one ball drill back to 1" and it feels more comfortable. I need to figure out my thumb as I am getting some wear on the inside just above the knuckle. I want to buy all new balls, but want to get this right first. Does changing pitches require any pitch change to the thumb or span changes? Oh, I am older than you and injured one of my fingers. My flexibility isn't great.
Changing finger pitches does not require changing your thumb pitch, but it sounds like you might be having an issue with that as well. You can also pitch your thumb fwd/rev/laterally to match your hand shape. Sounds like you might need a little lateral pitch change on your thumb and possibly a forward/ reverse pitch change to help clear it easier. You can do whatever you need to make it comfortable and consistent. I'm a bit older than JR as well, and nowhere near as good. I'm a right handed thumb bowler. My current pitches are 7/8 reverse on middle, 3/4 reverse on ring with 3/8 lateral on both 1/8 reverse and 1/8 left on thumb.
Change one thing at a time. Get the fingers to feel good. Then adjust the thumb pitch if it feels like you are dropping it even though the thumb feels tight.
You're 38 years old ....... trust me you're still a young man ........ look at 11 time world champion surfer Kelly Slater ....... 50 and still dominating the competition!
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Agreed!! I'm 45 and facing these same issues. I had to remember, the best advocate is yourself and your game. If your feel any difference, open that conversation with your PSO. I did the same with my PSO and he instantly came to the same conclusion about my flexibility in my fingers and started adjusting my pitches. My PSO is truly my "Bowling Doctor"
As a 1h bowler I used 0 when I was teens thru 20s. Moved to 1/8 reverse in my 30s, and a 1/4 reverse in my 40s. Switched from 1h righty to 2h lefty last year, and find that I need more reverse due to more the wrist being cupped more. I’ve bumped it up to 1/2 reverse for now, and may go a touch farther.
I'm so glad I watched this video before my first ever coaching session today, Thanks JR! I had a session today with a great coach and found out that my span is too long and finger pitches are off, I've been having a huge problem of getting the ball off my hand clean and spinning the crap out of it. I threw one of the coaches balls and wow what a difference, more revs and effortless power. It's fantastic that we discovered this, (I told him that my finger nails were pushing against the backside of the grip) but very upsetting that my local PSO has been drilling all my balls incorrectly for the past year, now it's going to cost a small fortune to get 9 or 10 balls fixed.
I'm 1 inch away on my fingers. Changed it when I came back from a decade absence. My Rev rate is about the same. But I'm way more nice to it now. Hand is way more relaxed. Good stuff JR.
I just drilled a ball with 1" reverse for myself to try it, always had 1/8" reverse but as I'm getting older (43) I am feeling the pressure, so I am trying 1", I feel like I could go more. What do you do about trimming down the grips to get them flush?
I honestly cant thank you enough for this video. I took a very long break with bowling. Just got back into it and bought a new ball. Get it drilled felt great for a game or 2 then started feeling pains come to find out thumb hole was too big. Fix that problems from another one of your videos. Then find pains in my fingers which brought me to this video. Your very informative videos have taught me so much and improved my game tremendously. Keep videos like this coming us viewers appreciate it more than words could ever explain. THANK YOU!!
I'm old and my fingers are not flexible. I have bee through the mill last 5 years with pitch and span changes. At one point I did what you are suggesting and it didn't work for me. I lost carry. Now I am shortening my span with quite a bit of forward pitch and ball hits better. I'd go even more forward and shorter and I did try it but the finger holes started rubbing on the backside of my fingers.
JR so much appreciate your perspecitve. I am struggling with my release as well and think your thoughts on pitches makes sense.
Spot on. I'm 58. Keep an eye on your grip and pitch changes work. Being a lower rev rate bowler, i use Vise bio skin on middle finger for extra traction. Didn't like it on ring finger because it hung in too much and i could feel the over strain throughout my finger. Getting old sucks, but not a show stopper.
First week of September I'll be getting with my pso for refit and switchable thumbs on 9 balls. Going to vaccu grips as well. Going to have him drill them in such a way that if I want to adjust my pitch/span on the fly, I will just swap out grips and thumbs. My fingers are larger in winter and taping my fingers wears out grips too fast. So having winter grips/thumbs and summer I might keep my consistency up.
great vid. After bowling a lot lately, tourneys, league, subbing in league, My hand has been hurting. Everything in this video explained what i'm experiencing
Thank you for this discussion JR. My ball release since my 20 year long absence from the sport has been the definition of inconsistent. I never knew anything about the angle of the finger pinch and how it could affect my release. I always come away from your videos with new knowledge and I'm very appreciative for all of your insights. I hope 2023 will bring you prosperity in wealth and more importantly health.
I'm experiencing similar right now. Went from 1/8 under to 5/8 reverse over 6 months. While comfortable, I did notice i could probably benefit going to 7/8-1in reverse with slightly longer span.
Plug work cost so much today. I dont know where to start.
I just changed my pitches also. Middle finger is 1/8th away, ring finger is a 1/4 under. Hopefully this will raise my track up.
Had this change made with my fit change today. I work with my hands everyday and don't have the flexibility I used to have. I have a very strong grip but don't have that elasticity
I just went to 3/8 away on my last 2 balls. Have also been oversizing the top 3/4" of the hole to allow for some swelling on morning shifts or on long days. Made a huge difference in how my hand feels.
Good information. 57 yrs old and having problems with thumb but not fingers. Wonder if I could get PSO to move thumb pitch to alleviate pain in bottom half of thumb below palm.
I changed my pitches from 5/8th towards the palm to 7/8th away from the palm and wow what a difference it totally allows the ball to roll off my hand way smoother and I believe I'm landing the ball like an air plane coming in for a landing like they say. I'm 54 and flexibility has really changed.
Wow, 7/8 away, how do you hold on to the ball?
@@pablolacruz2652 I have a very large hand, I can palm a basketball. So not hard to hold onto the ball.
Just a thought after reading most of the comments is comming up with a design in finger grips? Not a permanent fix. To add some pitch in the fingers?
The thumb is where I feel like I could use a change. Just not sure in what way.
Great video JR. I've noticed that all my balls suffer from this. Essentially too long of span as well as not enough reverse in the fingers. This puts a lot of pressure on the nail of the finger and the whole finger itself. I actually am recovering from an A2 pulley injury caused by exactly this. I need to take my balls in to have the ring finger dropped an 1/8" span as well as have more reverse pitch and potentially even more forward in the thumb.
I think it's an old philosophy that some PSO drillers have carried over from the old days of long span and lifting through the ball vs. the new modern fit era of relaxed grip.
So for me, since I get the ball into more of a forward roll, my thumb is reverse pitch while my fingers are forward pitched. Helps me clear the thumb quick, while not missing my hit on the bottom.
Cool video talk tech bowling Jr Raymond
Hey Jr, Great video, idk if you did a thumb pitch video, im getting a burn mark on the inside pad of my thumb.
Thank you so much for the knowledge! My hand has been killing me
Do you have any shows on what thumb angle is best for you
How far are you from Columbus Ohio I live in eastern KY and I know where Wayne Webb's House is. I know you are in Michigan so how many hours are you from there
Hmm, I’ve had a tendon repair so my strength in my ring finger is minimal. But it feels like they stay in the ball way longer than they should
I wish there was a pro shop guy here in kansas who views grip fit like you. I've been having problems with my grip and trying to explain that to someone without being looked at like im crazy is frustrating as a bowler.
Great video and well timed. Went bowling with my daughter yesterday after not having bowled for several years. When I was last bowling (a couple leagues a week), I had started having pain and swelling in my second knuckle on my ring finger. Hoped it would have gone away after a 5 year lay-off, but it was quite bad after 2 games yesterday. Going to see the pro shop next week and will look at some reverse for both fingers, but more for the ring finger. I suspect my arsenal is at 0 (or maybe 1/8 reverse), can't recall anymore.
I just turned 60 and I am left handed, 215 average bowler in Iowa. For the longest time my PSO tried to get me to shorten my span. I finally gave in about a year ago and also dropped from 15 to 14lbs. The only real issue now, is I have been having issues with the muscle in my thumb. It is only come up recently and I took about a month off from bowling from mid May till mid June. Then I started the Kids Bowl Free with my granddaughters and the thumb issue started. Now that I bowl 2 games a day pretty much Monday-Friday, the thumb issue has gone away. So, I really get what you were saying here and I believe bowlers should really listen to their PSO reps.
As you add reverse to the fingers do you need to reduce the reverse in the thumb as well ?
Would shortening the span help? I had my arsenal span shortened. Not sure if I like the roll I'm getting. I was splitting open on my ring finger and suggested changing my grip. He said that my span was too long. I'm not tearing at the finger joint, but the release is way faster than before. What do you think??
I’ve been working with my local pro shop operator lately on my finger and thumb pitches. I’m getting close to 73 now, and my speed and rev rate a much lower than they were when I quit bowling around 1990. I’ve been at it now for about 16 months and most of my newer equipment was drilled to match my old equipment. My thumb was 3/4”-5/8” away from the palm, but is now at 3/8” away, and my fingers are at 0-1/8” away. Maybe I should try a little more pitch away on my fingers. I’ll have to play around with it and see what happens. Good catch on the flexibility change issue!
Does your clinic ever come to New Jersey?
LOVE this video J.R.
I’ve been struggling with some finger pain and recently increased my finger pitches to 1/2 on middle finger & 1/4 on ring.
I’m 65 with VERY little flexibility on those fingers after 50 years of bowling. I’m now going to increase the pitch a bit more on both.
Shouldn’t you also reduce your span when increasing pitches?
Pitches in fingers are opposite thumb. So reverse in the fingers is what you want. The forward/reverse is in relation to the core of the ball, not the direction your fingers point. For a relaxed grip, more forward pitch in the thumb, more reverse in the fingers, as well as slightly shorter span to accommodate for hand flexibility.
Check out this diagram if you are still confused
i.imgur.com/dcwCYR4.png
Thanks for this video because I've been trying to figure out why my bowling fingers are getting these pretty good calluses by the 1st knuckle which makes it painful and hard to bend my fingers especially the middle finger. It starting happening when I turn 50.
If you add reverse to your finger tips do you need to lengthen your span to accommodate the pitch change?
Dothese have the same effects and apply the same for no thumb bowlers
Does this apply to a bowler that does not like to use finger tip grips? Thanks for your tips!
JR, with your move to 1/2" reverse pitch on your fingers, did you need to adjust your thumb pitch or your span?
I'm dying to know the answer of this, did you ever figure it out?
I have arthritis in the first knuckle of my middle finger. It can be pretty painfull at times. Will changing pitch help.
Question. When changing pitches does there come a point that your span will need to be adjusted?
Are you changing the span with these finger pitch changes?
Currently at 1/4 reverse.. my PSO suggested to increase to 1/2 reverse, but in my mind I feel like I will "lose" the ball ( as you mentioned) and will grab the ball... enjoy your content , keep it rollin
How does one sign up for the clinic?
so this is perfect timing. I have been having this issue for a while with my fingers. I have had autoimmune shit for years and have not been able to close my fingers down for some time. My fingers are to the point it hurts to bowl but I keep doing it. I am 46 and love this sport. But it is so funny you mentioned this because I just was telling my pro shop guy how my fingers was. He told me I need to pitch them away on my new ball I am getting and if it helps he can plug and change pitch on the rest of them. I am poor and cant afford to replace them all. LOL But at the very least it tells me he knows a little bit about what he is doing. Thanks for the video!
I'm at a 1/2 away in my middle finger and 7/16 away in the ring finger.
My ring finger Is always sore. I am at 1/4 away with Index and 3/8 away on ring. Have noticed a lot less flexibility In my ring. Would going 5/8 away In ring be too much or no ? I am 3/16 reverse In the thumb.
I can tell you that I personally have less flexibility in my ring finger compared to my middle finger. It’s night & day. I’ve also always used a shorter span on my ring finger too because I had burn marks on the pad of my ring finger. With that being said I’m currently at 1/4 reverse in my middle finger and 3/4 reverse in my ring finger.
I have been playing with my grip for a while now and it is frustrating. My coach had me set my pitches down from 1" to 3/4" and now my fingernails are dragging on the back of the ball. I had one ball drill back to 1" and it feels more comfortable. I need to figure out my thumb as I am getting some wear on the inside just above the knuckle. I want to buy all new balls, but want to get this right first. Does changing pitches require any pitch change to the thumb or span changes? Oh, I am older than you and injured one of my fingers. My flexibility isn't great.
Changing finger pitches does not require changing your thumb pitch, but it sounds like you might be having an issue with that as well. You can also pitch your thumb fwd/rev/laterally to match your hand shape.
Sounds like you might need a little lateral pitch change on your thumb and possibly a forward/ reverse pitch change to help clear it easier. You can do whatever you need to make it comfortable and consistent.
I'm a bit older than JR as well, and nowhere near as good. I'm a right handed thumb bowler. My current pitches are 7/8 reverse on middle, 3/4 reverse on ring with 3/8 lateral on both 1/8 reverse and 1/8 left on thumb.
I'm 67 and I'm going to try reverse on my fingers. Thanks
If we change the finger pitches away, do we change the thumb to forward? Or do we retain the same pitch for thumb?
Change one thing at a time. Get the fingers to feel good. Then adjust the thumb pitch if it feels like you are dropping it even though the thumb feels tight.
Just went to 1/2 reverse on fingers and went from 1/2 forward to 0 on my thumb
Do finger pitches matter as much for thumbless bowlers?
Currently 3/4 away after broken the first knuckle of both fingers because of bad pitches and zero flexibility.
How’s the guitar playing going????>?’
Sheesh! I play trumpet professionally and the last thing I need is loss of flexibility
Wait until you hit 50 lol my middle finger is 5/8 and the ring is 9/16..
You're 38 years old ....... trust me you're still a young man ........ look at 11 time world champion surfer Kelly Slater ....... 50 and still dominating the competition!