Customer called about blower not running, found an X-13 barely turning. Replaced with a PSC motor. #hvac #hvaclife #fieldpiece #ICP #makita #X-13 #usmotors
Man you really know your stuff !!! I need to come ride with you for a month you have the ability to change peoples life’s with what you have learned thanks for sharing brother!!
Thank the tech gods everyday for RUclips! All this training and cool shit at our fingertips! No way we’d ever be able to take enough “ class room hours” to get all this before we were 80 years old haha! 👊
My Goodman Variable speed motor module went out after 7 years... Prices for a new motor with module were 800-1200, Ouch. I found on Ebay a company in Florida that had 2 modules, programmed for 200 for the pair. I bought them installed one and this is good for now. They were telling me after this I will have to convert like you did on this video. Thanks for walking us through this change over on this video!!!
@@Garth2011 The DoE MANDATES the use of ECM motors on newer systems(ive been told 2016 forward). Theyre junk and fail..probably because they have no capacitor.
@@fredost1504There is a part inside the ECM module called a thermistor which is a thin black round looking disc about the size of a quarter. That part is what fails and it is about a $2 part which can be replaced but likely not something all HVAC folks can or would do in the field. If they installed a quality thermistor, they would not have the problems they do and the sad part is, a completely perfect motor is being wasted when they are replaced with a new one. The ECM can be replaced however, the cost of those are almost as much as a complete motor assy plus, availability is a problem, "out of stock" most of the time. There's a replacement made by Evergreen which will self program rotation as a "good" replacement.
Kind of a crap shoot...lower the original efficiency and design by going with a more reliable PSC idea or use the more expensive OEM motor/module. The savings in power may never be reached due to this ECM failure. I'd personally opt for a new ECM vs. the PSC in the long run.
@@Samlol23_drrich Ive replaced many expensive electrolytic capacitors. They quit working all the time. And the three phase motors (behind the expensive electronics) are much more reliable than single phase motors. And Electronic controlled motors can do things that a single phase can never do.
@@Samlol23_drrich Your experience will depend on which type you purchased. A 3 phase motor with the electronic control system at the surface would leave your downhole equipment very reliable. Just be attentive to grounding, especially if you have PVC casing.
Did the same thing in my house. No need to worry about the time delay here in Florida, no heat exchanger, inside the furnace, to worry about getting too hot.
Nice job. If it is out of warranty I always recommend a PSC replacement as well. Any savings from the ECM is gone with one out of warranty replacement and the reliability is much higher. Oh, and thanks to seeing it in one of your videos I got myself one of those Makita fans. Loved it this summer!
Yep...those ECM designs/engineering should be required to carry a 10 year or longer warranty on them. For the money they charge, about $1,200 I think, and the push from the Government to use them, someone else should be pushing that kind of engineering/quality to either be better made or carry long warranties. Quiet Cool has ECM motors on their whole house and attic fans and they warranty them for 15 years !
All good except for cutting the OEM connections to fit the PSC set up. I'd have left about 4 or 5 inches extra on them just incase the owner wanted to go back to ECM at a later date. I'm sure they save a few hundred with the PSC. Great repair plus that ECM motor could go to a discount or senior citizen job for the cost of the module only.
Boy I bet the customer was happy you got it working on the weekend! Good change retrofit. Just curious, was it still under warranty? Or did the customer just opt to fix with PSC? Thanks.
most of the control boards require feedback from the ECM motor to let the unit works, if we put psc motor they are not goone work. the control board knows what is the speed of the motor and keeps going, what do you do with the type of units?
Curtis why didn’t you just replace it with a Evergreen EM Replacement Blower Motor the price differences isnt that much. it seems like a lot of extra work just to wire in that motor when you could’ve just unplugged and plugged in new evergreen eM, but I guess some people a $200 difference makes or breaks for the job. You’re the man have a great day buddy.
I just started doing some service self thought over the years. I mainly do installation and new construction. Relays and sequencers throw me on a loop 😅l.
I’ve done this once before but never thought about having to change the stat setting. So you changed it where the stat controls the fan during heat vs the equipment?
Do those ECM's have a high failure rate? I see a lot of them being replaced by techs? I was told that when the module fails on them, it shuts the whole low voltage system down. Is that true?
the problem with with an ECM isn't the motor itself, but the internal driver required to run it. the motor itself is just coils, rotor, and bearings. just like the construction of an induction motor. the electronics required to run the motor are usually encased in resin and mounted in the endcap of the motors to save space. unfortunately that means that if the electronics fail, the entire module has to be replaced because the electronic components are not accessible. ideally, the motors should come with a seperate watertight unit that can be mounted nearby or even indoors, which can also be opened to access the circuit board inside. that way if there is a problem with the board it can be taken to an electronics tech for repair, rather than just scrapping it and starting from square one. but that just doesn't happen unless you're using an induction motor and a VF drive from a reputable manufacturer
I thought X13 motors were multi-speed depending upon which of the several 24ac inputs were active. If you route one of those inputs to the contactor, what happens when a different speed is called for?
@@roberts1159 about $20 per month 6 months of the year. About $10 per month the 6 other months average. Where an ECM gets it efficiency from is the use of permanent magnets. We've ran a bunch of in-house tests. The ECM motor, inside the compressor, (aka inverter compressor) is how they achieve 20 plus seer.
@@Bryan-Hensley And the savings is much more depending on the cost of power. Some areas charge as much as 50 cents per kWh so $20 could be an easy $75 a month.
These damn X13 motors remind me if the Cannon engine HP IIP laser printer.... Where as the laser failed from High Humidity... But at least with those it left a tell tail skull and crossbones ☠️ on the PCB... I first encounter this fail with the X13 a number of years ago when I bought a condo with all brand new appliances... Including the HVAC.... I fought that company that installed it and the manufacturer of the AC... But in the end I got the motor replacement under warranty and it's been running flawless ever after... Oh yeah and that damn none compatibly with the Freon and the TXV valve... Pain in the butt
You’re right a communicating motor, or some systems actually adjust torque or airflow by differing the low voltage - those you gotta have an OEM motor.
Electronics are a pain, I live in the Cayman Islands and I recomend the 2 stage 18 seer systems, higher seer than that it's a waste of money; specially with Condensing units with boards.
Don’t know why you had to cut the wires so close to the plug, it’s not like you are the only one that works on that unit. Not a good thing but you do you.
I love your videos and you always do a great job but I really hope I don't have to unfollow you if my Wildcats lose to your Bulldogs 🤣🤣
🤦🤦
Man you really know your stuff !!! I need to come ride with you for a month you have the ability to change peoples life’s with what you have learned thanks for sharing brother!!
Nice replacement Curtis ... Thx for sharing ...
Thank the tech gods everyday for RUclips! All this training and cool shit at our fingertips! No way we’d ever be able to take enough “ class room hours” to get all this before we were 80 years old haha! 👊
Good video and great explanation too.
Nice work on that packaged unit.👍👍👍
Good to know. I have a bad ECM on a unit. It's old and cannot find a replacement. So I am going to convert it. Thanks for the how too video.
My Goodman Variable speed motor module went out after 7 years... Prices for a new motor with module were 800-1200, Ouch. I found on Ebay a company in Florida that had 2 modules, programmed for 200 for the pair. I bought them installed one and this is good for now. They were telling me after this I will have to convert like you did on this video. Thanks for walking us through this change over on this video!!!
Yes...very much overpriced crap that self destructs. Companies who make that crap shouldn't get the business.
@@Garth2011 The DoE MANDATES the use of ECM motors on newer systems(ive been told 2016 forward). Theyre junk and fail..probably because they have no capacitor.
@@fredost1504There is a part inside the ECM module called a thermistor which is a thin black round looking disc about the size of a quarter. That part is what fails and it is about a $2 part which can be replaced but likely not something all HVAC folks can or would do in the field. If they installed a quality thermistor, they would not have the problems they do and the sad part is, a completely perfect motor is being wasted when they are replaced with a new one. The ECM can be replaced however, the cost of those are almost as much as a complete motor assy plus, availability is a problem, "out of stock" most of the time. There's a replacement made by Evergreen which will self program rotation as a "good" replacement.
I've been a Technician for over ten years and still haven't tried doing this. Good job.
Kind of a crap shoot...lower the original efficiency and design by going with a more reliable PSC idea or use the more expensive OEM motor/module. The savings in power may never be reached due to this ECM failure. I'd personally opt for a new ECM vs. the PSC in the long run.
Excellent video 😊
Great video. I am about to tackle this same task.
The more electronics the more likely to break and more expensive the fix. Great job.
less likely to break, but more expensive to fix.
@@stvrob6320I’ve had a lot of expensive electronic stuff fried by lightning nearby. Never a plain capacitor motor though.
@@Samlol23_drrich Ive replaced many expensive electrolytic capacitors. They quit working all the time. And the three phase motors (behind the expensive electronics) are much more reliable than single phase motors.
And Electronic controlled motors can do things that a single phase can never do.
@stvrob6320 I'm glad cause I just installed a variable speed well pump that's 700' down and don't want to pay labor again any time soon!
@@Samlol23_drrich Your experience will depend on which type you purchased.
A 3 phase motor with the electronic control system at the surface would leave your downhole equipment very reliable. Just be attentive to grounding, especially if you have PVC casing.
Congratulations good working 👍solutions
Did the same thing in my house. No need to worry about the time delay here in Florida, no heat exchanger, inside the furnace, to worry about getting too hot.
You do good work.
Those dastardly ECM's.
Good job 👏👏
Nice job. If it is out of warranty I always recommend a PSC replacement as well. Any savings from the ECM is gone with one out of warranty replacement and the reliability is much higher. Oh, and thanks to seeing it in one of your videos I got myself one of those Makita fans. Loved it this summer!
Yep...those ECM designs/engineering should be required to carry a 10 year or longer warranty on them. For the money they charge, about $1,200 I think, and the push from the Government to use them, someone else should be pushing that kind of engineering/quality to either be better made or carry long warranties. Quiet Cool has ECM motors on their whole house and attic fans and they warranty them for 15 years !
Make sure customers understand what they are giving up when switching to PSC. The ON/OFF behavior of the PSC motor might not be welcome or expected.
Good work
Good job 👏 👍
Thanks for this video
Good job Curtis, the new socket set should solve most of your problems. Bulldogs are better than wildcats anyways.
You should make a diagram for this so we can better understand , thanks
All good except for cutting the OEM connections to fit the PSC set up. I'd have left about 4 or 5 inches extra on them just incase the owner wanted to go back to ECM at a later date.
I'm sure they save a few hundred with the PSC. Great repair plus that ECM motor could go to a discount or senior citizen job for the cost of the module only.
Your socket set looks strangely like mine. Nice choice.
Very nice
Awesome 😎
Boy I bet the customer was happy you got it working on the weekend! Good change retrofit. Just curious, was it still under warranty? Or did the customer just opt to fix with PSC? Thanks.
Was not under warranty
most of the control boards require feedback from the ECM motor to let the unit works, if we put psc motor they are not goone work. the control board knows what is the speed of the motor and keeps going, what do you do with the type of units?
Almost always the blower wheel is bigger in ECM applications. Every time I tried this it over amped the motor.
How long did that take, and what would you charge for that?
How does the blower come on when there’s a call for electric heat?
How many years did this motor last
Curtis why didn’t you just replace it with a Evergreen EM Replacement Blower Motor the price differences isnt that much. it seems like a lot of extra work just to wire in that motor when you could’ve just unplugged and plugged in new evergreen eM, but I guess some people a $200 difference makes or breaks for the job. You’re the man have a great day buddy.
I just started doing some service self thought over the years. I mainly do installation and new construction. Relays and sequencers throw me on a loop 😅l.
@HVAC GUY I bet your thrilled your bulldogs brought home a national title huh ?!
Oh Yeh. Go Dawgs!
What is that relay called?
Good job ,i would definitely do this also,but do the customers notice any differance in blower speed ,being the same for heat and cool
I think speed would be the same, because Y is energized in heat and cool in a heat pump, but what is noticeable is that it no longer has a time delay
I know the speed is the same now for heat and cool,but no high speed for ac and lower for heat,thanks
Does that module control the fan speed? I had the module replaced recently and think my fan isn't running as strong.
Yes it varies the speed of the motor/fan.
Rock back and forth for sure ......
I’ve done this once before but never thought about having to change the stat setting. So you changed it where the stat controls the fan during heat vs the equipment?
Yes, when it’s in emergency heat is the only time it matters
Do you have any videos on how you started your business? I just found your channel.
I knew that’s what I had to do. I ran into this problem today. I took the black off the heat strip and put it on the normally open leg on my relay.
Do those ECM's have a high failure rate? I see a lot of them being replaced by techs? I was told that when the module fails on them, it shuts the whole low voltage system down. Is that true?
the problem with with an ECM isn't the motor itself, but the internal driver required to run it. the motor itself is just coils, rotor, and bearings. just like the construction of an induction motor. the electronics required to run the motor are usually encased in resin and mounted in the endcap of the motors to save space. unfortunately that means that if the electronics fail, the entire module has to be replaced because the electronic components are not accessible.
ideally, the motors should come with a seperate watertight unit that can be mounted nearby or even indoors, which can also be opened to access the circuit board inside. that way if there is a problem with the board it can be taken to an electronics tech for repair, rather than just scrapping it and starting from square one. but that just doesn't happen unless you're using an induction motor and a VF drive from a reputable manufacturer
I thought X13 motors were multi-speed depending upon which of the several 24ac inputs were active. If you route one of those inputs to the contactor, what happens when a different speed is called for?
On second thought, maybe you're running the contactor coil directly off the Green (thermostat fan) wire?
Should you not be back probing that motor connector?
What’s the cost savings of going back with PSC vs ECM ? Thanks for sharing this video.
Because of adding a relay and capacitor the actual repair cost is similar. But, dependability is much, much higher with the PSC.
@@HVACGUY Logic makes sense. I have a Trane gas furnace about 20 years old with an ECM and still working. Maybe just lucky…
@@roberts1159 about $20 per month 6 months of the year. About $10 per month the 6 other months average. Where an ECM gets it efficiency from is the use of permanent magnets. We've ran a bunch of in-house tests. The ECM motor, inside the compressor, (aka inverter compressor) is how they achieve 20 plus seer.
Ecm motor about 600 psc around 150
@@Bryan-Hensley And the savings is much more depending on the cost of power. Some areas charge as much as 50 cents per kWh so $20 could be an easy $75 a month.
These damn X13 motors remind me if the Cannon engine HP IIP laser printer....
Where as the laser failed from High Humidity... But at least with those it left a tell tail skull and crossbones ☠️ on the PCB...
I first encounter this fail with the X13 a number of years ago when I bought a condo with all brand new appliances... Including the HVAC.... I fought that company that installed it and the manufacturer of the AC... But in the end I got the motor replacement under warranty and it's been running flawless ever after... Oh yeah and that damn none compatibly with the Freon and the TXV valve... Pain in the butt
Mine lasted only 2.5 yrs
Do they inspect the installs
Normally
Go Dawgs National Championships 🐶
I like you
Im from iraq
Nice work!
Game time!
🥃🥃🍺🍺🍺🍿🎯
Stay safe.
Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses!
Can you put a link for the socket set bro
I think this is it. Not sure.
www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWMT72165-Piece-Mechanics-Tool/dp/B00GK8ULY6?th=1
This way 2 go i been doing this swap sence the first one x 13 - ecm r 2 sensitive
Why?
How much a job like this cost.
👍
Way to go Relay and a Reg motor thats how we handle down here all calls customers can not afford 1090.00 for new EFM😢
Some control boards may expect some status feedback from the ECM motor in order to operate. Those cases may be harder to change to a PSC
You’re right a communicating motor, or some systems actually adjust torque or airflow by differing the low voltage - those you gotta have an OEM motor.
@@HVACGUY Is the X13 a even a communicating motor? How to tell if PSC swap is possible? Thanks.
How can i come to america and operate this job
take a plane to Mexico and jump the border...
@@Paulie1232 Best reply I’ve seen in a long time! Unfortunately.
@@Paulie1232 😂
customer made the right choice going with the PSC...
Hola ,como puedo traducir el video en español?
Electronics are a pain, I live in the Cayman Islands and I recomend the 2 stage 18 seer systems, higher seer than that it's a waste of money; specially with Condensing units with boards.
Oops, your title needs an adjustment. There's no such thing as an "ECM motor." Do you think you can figure why?
I tape or puky my hoods bro
Anyways ......gee.......
Nice hack job.
My opinion better off with psc motor
LA ! Haha jk.
U got cojones of steel changing a motor with no gloves
Don’t know why you had to cut the wires so close to the plug, it’s not like you are the only one that works on that unit. Not a good thing but you do you.
Esc is junk