What is the IDEAL Main WIDTH ? Can they be spread too FAR ? Home Theater Gurus. Home Theater Setup
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- Опубликовано: 4 фев 2023
- Can you spread MAINS TOO FAR? Home Theater Setup Tweaking. Home Theater Gurus. Main width Spacing.
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I liked going a little closer than recommended in my room. I have fairly small mains, so I think that might be why it helped.
Thanks for the video, good timing! I would have liked to have gone +/-30 from center but my room isn't very wide and the door is where I would need to put one of the mains. So I have moved the mains forward to the other side of the doorway. The angle is around +/-35, potentially a bit more. Toed in to the MLP. I think they sound ok in that position when I'm in the MLP but like you said the sweet spot is not great when I sit in the 2nd front row seat. Which isn't very often as I'm normally watching alone or when watching with my family, who wouldn't even notice and are happy to be off center.
I am considering building some tall thin wall mountable encloures (same volume and port) and move them to the front wall. Toed in to the MLP. The main problem I foresee is that they would be right in the corners. Flanking the screen. Would this be a good thing to do compared to where they are now or would I be introducing more problems having them in the corners. I would put absorbing panels on the door and wall on one side of each speaker, which I assume would be the first reflection point of the closest walls. But I couldn't in the screen (not Acoustic transparent) side.
Should I draw the circle with the diameter equal to the distance btw the ear location and the center speaker, then place the L/R speakers btw 22 and 40 deg?
I prob have no idea what I'm saying but I picked up another denon 3800h today and I seemed to have did what I wanted in auro3D, which is 5.1.6 to 7.1.8. But who knows I have no idea what I'm doing. Just plugged the output of one to the input of the 2nd, messed around in video option to turn monitor 1/2 to activate and I got sound, I already had picture. Then I go to to the speakers plug them in and it works, also the info button shows the channels active as intended. But again I'm prob looking at something wrong. The remote works for both. I can get a 16th channel using the vog of the 2nd avr and 8 subs.
I have the opposite challenge to what's addressed in this video. I have a long narrow room with no flexibility in front main placement or main seating placement. I can only get my L/R mains about 8 feet apart with the main listening position fixed at about 15 feet from the mains. So my angle (total) is only about 30 degrees (or 15 degrees off center for each main). Again, seating placement and front main placement are locked in with no other options.
Any suggestions on anything I can do to improve front soundstage at all?
I should add that the overall plan is for a 5.1.2 Atmos layout.
Hi Mr Guru.
do i toe in overhead front height Atmos speakers ?
So my room is 14' wide, I am sitting 12ft from the screen. My screen will have 4 way masking and be 130"w by 69"h, this will give me a 140" 16:9 image or a 141" 2.35:1 image. I am wondering if I can set my speakers on the outside of the screen behind the screen wall(screen wall will have Acoustimac DMD so the speakers would be behind that). If they are behind the AT screen the masks will end up in front of them. I am not sure if I am doing the math correct but I am thinking they would be ok, any thoughts?
Not sure if it matters but my LCR are DIYSG 1099s and the system is a 7.2.4. I will have 2 Devastators behind the screen wall. Due to the screen size the left and right masks will be 4", top and bottom would be 6.5" roughly.
@Home Theater Gurus, If I have a 130-140" cinemascope screen, would it be better to put my in-wall LCR flanking the screen, or put all three behind the screen? I don't have the option of toeing my LR in-walls, so would the overall sound be better if they are closer together behind the screen?
with a properly sized scope they'll always fall behind it. If they don't you're either too wide with the main spread or the screen is too small of a viewing angle. Mains must be toed in to perform optimally. If you can't toe them push them closer but understand that doesn't fix the no toe in issue.
I didn't consider that spreading the fronts out would shrink the sweet spot. Im going to have to do some more experimenting now, thanks!
You're welcome. Don't forget to play with toe in. You can use pink noise and aim to get it as similar as possible to the most seats to dial in toe in. I should have mentioned that so I guess I'll be doing a video on that really soon.
@@hometheatergurus Didn't you made a episode 29 about that before?
Thanks for the video :-) My Question: When you put second subwoofer in the back of the quite small room, and your MLP is in 3/4 lenght of the room, why i'am able to localize subwoofer by just vibrations which it makes? It shakes one side of couch more than another.
Try other locations. I used my old tiny sub, set it in main listening position, and put my ears down 12in from floor all over and found the peak location. That's where I located my permanent big sub. Gave me the best results.
Im limited by my room’s 11’ width so I did some math and I can take my widest possible speaker separation and divide it by 1.1547 to get my viewing distance.
There are many videos about speaker placements in details. Whereas there are hardly any videos related to Projector placements talking about throw distances. I have a room measuring 16*13 feet, where the screen will be placed at a distance of 16 feet from the projector. I want to opt for a 120" screen, in this scenario which projector shall be ideal?
There's no videos on it as it's not really something to talk about too much. Just use one of the online distance calculators like on Projector Central. Also the dealer you bought it from should also be able to help you with that unless you bought it from a box store. BTW make sure you watch the video on sizing your screen. 120" is ideal for around a 10' distance with 12' being about max. Use a room mode calculator and get the seats placed properly and then size the screen based on viewing angles.
@Home Theater Gurus - would you consider doing a video on speaker gauge recommendations and include copper core vs. aluminum core? Thanks!
100% Oxygen free Copper core all the way. Copper clad is WACK.
Typically 14ga will do for short runs. I went with 12ga to avoid bottle necking, I listen at high volumes, and I have runs over 35ft. Oxygen free copper is the only way.
If my sweetspot is only 1 chair, does that become an advantage to go over 60 degrees? to maybe 70 or 75?
nope. Studios are one seat and their default is usually to go directly to 60 apart.
@hometheatergurus
Start by saying great videos!
I’m after an insight for front speaker placement. Are the three front speakers to be placed in a flat line, or all the same distance from MLP, with the centre being top of the arc. I have the arc setup at the moment to try out, with my MLP at 3.1m to the centre speaker face. I have a three seater sofa hard against the back wall, and can’t be moved. We sit at either end of the couch with animals in the sweet spot 😂 That’s why I’m watching this video. The mains are spaced around 80% of the MLP distance, 2560mm apart, after watching an audioholics video, angled around 24deg either side of the centreline. I did that spacing to keep the mains in from the side surrounds, but mainly wondering about the arc distance thing and if there’s a minimum recommended spacing better for the seating at either end of the sofa, but still gives a decent soundstage.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated, sorry about measuring in metres - New Zealand 🇳🇿
Get the mains at the proper angle , toe them in properly. The AVR will adjust for any distance differences. There's no reason to have the mains the exact same distance and actually that can make the sweet spot smaller as you're bringing the mains closer.
Ok cheers, I’ll do the pink noise test to see if I can widen the sweet spot where they are, if no good I’ll try at 8 feet apart and a smaller angle. Is 22 degrees the minimum recommended?
Depends if you are using a TV or an AT screen, plus the size of the screen. I used the 30 deg rule from the dobly atmos documentation and that doesn't work for me, because i have a 55 inch TV and i'm 3.5 meters away from it. The best sound stage i got was when i put the speakers close for the sides of the TV. Its hard to explain why, i need to draw it.
I'm finally able to get a projector with AT screen (hope by mid of this year), so the speakers will be placed at the correct angles for the recommended viewing angle/screen size ratio.
I'm guessing you didn't watch the video.. 😁
@@hometheatergurus My reason is not the soundstage, but how what you see on the picture represends as sound from the speakers. Yes i do agree that soundstange will be worse the closer the speakers are to each other. Yes i also agree on the problems with seats that are lefr and right of the money seat.
Lets say you are at the money seat, you have a 55 inch tv and you are sitting 3.5 meters away. TV appears to be very small for this distance, but if you spread your speakers to be, as dolby says it to be at, an avg of 30 deg. The speakers L and R are ~1m away from the left and right of the edges of theTV. When you see something on the far right edge of the TV, and that thing makes a sound, you hear it 1 meter to the right of where the sound should be appearing.
If you close your eyes the bubble is there and it sounds amazing , but because the TV is soo small compared to the speakers angle. Sounds that you see on the TV come too far to the left/right of it and it just doesn't work.
Doing a quick calulation i have a viewing degress of ~19.5. (The TV size and distance from above text) which is close to the mininum of 22 deg dolby says, but the bubble starts to dissapear, because the L is too far away from the side L, same for the R. And the LR are too close to the center speaker too. But this corresponds better to what i see on screen.
For my room 110 inch screen would be the best, which i'm working on getting this year. (fingers crossed). This will put me at ~38 degress viewing, and if i put the speakers behind the screen the L and R should be in the 34-36 deg range which will be perfect.
If only i could have a pen and paper to explain my reason a bit better.
Why don't you reduce your seating distance to more like 1.5 meters? This will achieve what you're trying to argue while being in the 30 degree range.
@@HTadd1ct Many people don't want to do that. They want the couch to be exactly *here* and the TV exactly *there*. Then they are told to put speakers like *this way* and it doesn't work.
If you get closer to you TV to have that 30 deg angle between the left and right, what happens with the center ? Center is gonna be either below or above the TV but not in the middle of it. So you start to hear voices from above the TV, you loose immersion. And the closer to the speakers you get the worse as well. You need some distance. No idea how to explain it, have to try it /experiment to see what i'm talking about.
It's all about what sounds best in your room. I have huge towers with a lot of output. Another important topic should be matching your subwoofer(s) with your fronts and or the speakers around your bed layer. Example, if you have Tower speakers. You should have subwoofer(s) that has 15 inch drivers and up. Small subwoofers cant keep up or give you the output to complement big tower speakers. I made that mistake by having 4 SB 3000'S in my setup. Those subs lasted for 8 months, and I upgraded them to 4 16 Ultras. My theater sounds exceptionally better. The bigger subs have more amplitude. One SB 16 Ultra out dueled four SB 3000'S- Easy. Bass with weight, is better than boomy bass.
We have videos on that already. The subs need to be able to hit your desired levels with headroom. We also have videos on the performance differences between ported and sealed but maybe I should do a new one.
My L/R towers are about 7 ft. apart (side of TV stand) and I only have 2 MLP seats. Currently I have them towed in about 30 degrees from center. Is that ok?
That doesn't give an angle so there's no way to know. Find the angles theyr'e at you'll have a starting point. For two seats I'd be in the 53 ish degree apart range.
So would that be about 26 degrees or so off center on both sides?
@@tom6363 correct
@@hometheatergurus What device do you use to measure floor level angles, just an ordinary school protractor and laser pointer?
@@tom6363 I use a program to design theaters which I see all of the angles in. See the mist recent atmos video as I have some quick ways to find the angles.
Disagree with premis and, ultimately,, implementation consideration for main width here! First, everything is relative. And consideration should be made for surround 5.1 or greater duties as a priority when considering a multi ch set up, particularly in relation to screen size as width of seating as well. Nobody ever complained about "stereo imaging" collapsing into one speaker at an IMAX theater, with a 100' wide screen, while stirring to one side of the theater, and for good reason! Regardless of how wide you go for left and right, the stereo music only consideration for multi purpose system duties will always be maximized in the center seats, period!! Ill always want a spread that's as wide as my screen perspective - of course room width factoring balance with seating facrored- basically every time for a large screen experience. And, the more drivers i have covering woofs, mids and tweeters, the likely father i can get them spread apart for said stereo 2 ch, if needed. Again, anyone off center, and you're relying on 5.1 channel 3 speaker steering mix anyway with multi seat, anyway!
To consider a 30deg width spread is a restricted narrow sound stage. No thank you! Id just assume use a sound bar and forget about it!! Another issue is placing eat level surround speakers , which is highly impractical, obtrusive and distracting! Anyone ever sitting closer to one side or back speaker will always have that speaker blasting in your ear and drawing you out of the main Soundstage! Not good! Get the surrounds off the floor and above your head, and they'll become unlicalizable, and do what they're intended, which is filler,/ effects sound, by enlarge!
Notice these speakers are well above your head in a commercial cinema. Finally, and just as important, is where to place each speaket so they actually sound and measure well !! Simply placing them where you think they should go usually means that's not where the fidelity is best , speaker to speaker. Ultimately things are relative, a compromise and, in part, subjective any dependent on variables, always. Just don't ell me my mains are too far apart because someone sitting on the end of my couch won't get a stereo sweet spot while watching a movie, that's mixed mostly through the main 3 front channels anyway! That about covers it , i think
Thanks for watching.
Mains should be 987° apart
Hmm.. I'll test that out and report back!
I run 42 channel atmos speakers in my dome living room to form a tesseract formation with a full marty box sub mounted on the ceiling in the middle
@@bryanguest2807 Sweet setup! Got me beat - I simply hooked my soundbar to the ceiling above my couch. It’s all about The Atmos, baby!!
I have you all beat. I sit on my subwoofer and wear in ear monitors.
@@bubblehead5394 based. Headphone atmos > crappy soundbar with no surrounds bouncy atmos > actual speakers directed at the listener
i would rather rant this in a video as I am fully aware . oh here i go , ranting mode has been activated lol
wow ^ i typed words on purpose and grammar was telling me , shouldn't put this extra word in place ? sort of like loudspeaker placement/s i guess ?
go to the cinema look at how far the front row seating is from the screen ?
there are many types of cinema designs some of which are different to other seating placements of many no - years - ago .
if all middle row seats were taken then not much choice to have seats that are far to left/right rows , those typically will be nearest to left/right speakers , sort of near .
another way of looking at width and sound . two people across the road talking , okay and its 1am so very quiet . you hear their voices they are also about 3 feet apart . you walk across the road to listen ? your also aware reflection sounds you get near close then about standing between them at 3 feet away ? you hear their voices in say stereo left to right .
movies often keep dialog centred that isn't how we hear sound ?
okay if you have any digital sound recorder/s or way to make multi dialog sound recording of at least , let me think now , hold on . .
1 ) 2
2 ) 2 = 4
3 ) 4 = 6
4 ) 6 = 8
5 ) 8 = 10
6 ) 10 = 12
7) 12 = 14
8 ) 14 = 16
9 ) 16 = 18
10 ) 18 = 20
okay , the above ^ numbers down the side are recorder recordings in stereo of two voices . i'm working this out , bear with me oh , happens be my cats name Bear .
going to need a few playback systems and 20 small speakers , small don't have to be large . small ones that can easily pick up hold in hand .
so picture this ? place these speakers face each other at few feet apart and make a cluster of them just bundle them in as if an actual group of people having conversations
the volume levels set , well this is where the psychoacoustics comes into play . i think you got the idea now ?
see how many you can easily understand ? i need not say all the rest its a bit cold freezing tonight i noticed , put the heating on , i can easily rant this all in video . see how many degrees apart you can or think you can hear each in actual stereo . the recordings will also ( play on loop ) get the idea ?