@@ddodd69 I mean kinda yeah. I like to post the stuff on Patreon as it kills 2 birds with one stone 1. I want to put content on Patreon lol, and video addendums are the easiest and provide a good deal of value. 2. It funnels people to the Patreon, but I do plan to keep most of the content on there free. I could upload it on a second YT channel, or as an unlisted YT video, but I'd rather just have it on there as long as there aren't any big drawbacks. This also allows me to be just slightly less strict with copyright.
@@GrimmyPigeon Oh sh*t thanks for pointing that out to me. I fix that now. It’s annoying bc Patreon defaults to it being only available to paid members
@vin-i5h is an attempt to justify to oneself the oversight the direction had with the math part of the movie. It is like when your favorite character has an ending you don't find satisfying in a series an you convince yourself of it being having a different ending. It is also known as copium. 😅
@@oioio-yb9dwI don’t think they were really asking what they meant by alternate, I think they were jokingly saying that we already live in a universe where everyone is very very bad at math
As an aero engineer and mathematician, I can tell you aviation movies are far more painful to watch than the Good Will Hunting from a math point of view.
@@dangerdangerTrapeze It’s really not that strange on a video about math for someone with a job in a math related field to be watching it. You’re acting as if engineers are as rare as astronauts.
A huge problem with that type of smart people is them just knowing and understanding all the technical terms as if 3/4 of them dont have some weird history making them impossible to just understand by being smart
Yeah this is a point I didn't touch on really. (Though to be fair, Will had read A LOT, so he would have known all the math Jargon). It's more the idea that things just come naturally to him. The idea that Will could have been so much better than Lambeau without even trying is laughable. Still love the movie, just have this gripe that I though i'd make a video out of.
@@Phanimations idk why i said huge problem i meant more like a weird thing i guess u got me into a criticizing mood 😅 I generally also like the concept of a super smart human in movies even if they are as goofy as sherlock
@@Phanimations There are some types of once in a generation or perhaps even century geniuses. George Dantzig solved two open problems in statistics, because he thought they were homework, the professor had written them up to show the class some of the unsolved problems of statistics. Though the big difference here is that he had allready completed a masters degree and worked with statistics professionally before starting his PhD. George Dantzig was probably not even a once in a generation genius.
@@redgribben7679 Yes this is true. I'm not denying that generational geniuses exist, the main issue is the ease with which Will does things. George Dantzig IIRC spent a week toiling away at the homework problems, whereas Will considers these problems to be "a f**king joke". That level of disrespect is a bit offensive and completely unrealistic
Basically everytime a scientist watch a space movie. A car person watching a car movie. A musician watching a musical. A lawyer watching a legal movie.
I don't see why directors shouldn't put as much effort in their script as a writer would in that case. See also, 11 years ago " The problem in Good Will Hunting - Numberphile"
I have a PhD in math and none of the math liberties in the film bother me. It's not what the film is about at all. In your other examples, the movie is largely about the thing. Legal movies almost always center on the actual courtroom antics, the lawyer's skill being the thing the movie is about. They don't really make legal films what are about, say, a junior lawyer trying to negotiate the social organization of lawyer circles. It's always about that guy being a stud in the courtroom. Car movies aren't about complex friendships and drama that ensues in those communities of people; they're about "how we go vroom vroom." That's why when those things are implausible or just made it, it's annoying, because the details of those things are critical to the plot. It's not mentioned how Will and Lambeau solve problems; it's just shown that they do and them working together is the point, not the problem they solved. The movie never mentions the details of them working on a paper or what journal it will go in, for example.
@@JD-gk7eh the movie is about math but the writers Damon and Affleck dont know duck any about it so, we get some psychosocial bable crap that american kids wont have a headache watching it is an inspiring movie about being happy not learning math as the educational system is too concerned only with the savants, while the rest of the weak other students are ignored.
It's about a young man who is throwing away his potential to live down to his peers. The fact that he's a savant is important to this theme. If he wasn't a man of exceptional talent, there would be no conflict.
@@runthenumbers9698 Right. And I feel like it's also about attachment disorder. He's afraid to let himself be passionate about math. (Just like he's afraid to let himself love Skylar)
@@runthenumbers9698Totally, but it isn't important for the math problem to actually be exceptionally difficult, only for the audience to understand that it is, and that point is made quite clearly.
I always repeat to myself "you don't owe it too yourself, you owe it too me" whenever I study or go to class or anything. It really is incredibly powerful. Good movie
Salieri actually was a great composer and teacher of Beethoven, Liszt, Schubert. It is crime that because of that movie most people know him for what he was not.
The tragedy of the arts is inflation of skill. Though Salieri was a far greater artist than I will ever be, I would rather listen to the other composers you mentioned. (Liszt is a favourite) Indeed, our records are filled with composers and other artists who have "one-in-a-million" talent. Why would one enjoy their works, when he can listen to Mozart?
@@dank_river3318That's just a really bad way to go about appreciating art. Salieri composed good music and nurtured talents bigger than his. The music is out there and can be appreciated, if not for what it is, at least for what it means historically. Many composers have become obscure over the years and it's not always down to inferiority over others. Telemann is another example of a prolific composers that is virtually unknown compared to during his lifetime even though he also composed good music.
Good Will Hunting is a great movie which treats the whole intellectual part of it the same way a cheap tv series in the 90s would've treated hacking. "This is a firewall created by NASA for the Pentagon!" *Scrambles on the keyboard for 7 seconds" "And we're in!"
@@isbestlizard Little while ago I watched Hellraiser V: Inferno and there's a random scene of the protagonist playing chess (on a basketball court, as you do) and I was baffled at what was happening on the board. Friday the 13th Part 2 also features a chess game that seems to have been set-up by randomly placing pieces on the board and seeing what happens... So honestly, Queen's Gambit putting more than 5 minute's effort into making the Chess games make sense would have been better than the average film/show.
Luckily for this movie, it isn’t really about the math. Or the physics, biology, or any of the subjects Will is designed as a character to be the best at. Putting an olympiad level problem on the board would only really have been to appease a slight few. It’s for the same narrative reasons science fiction movies mess with the physics of interstellar travel or gravity to make for a better, easier to follow story. Good will hunting isn’t about Will being a Genius. It’s about him being an idiot. His IQ does very little positive for him, and where he lacks emotionally is what Sean is for.
Yeah not a big fan of this video, I feel it’s disingenuous to pose the lack of difficult math as a problem, it very clearly wasn’t the point. Even if it was a bigger part of the movie, I can’t really blame the writers for failing to write a character smarter than themselves.
Just call them nodes and links like us programmers do. Although I know now that it's inspired by polyhedra, vertices and especially edges seem like weird names for a planar graph.
In highschool math, that's often how exercises are structured. But yeah, for advanced more complex algebra, etc. It's probably not super useful to work in this order.
I agree that they could've been slightly more accurate with the math, especially since one of the actors (John Mighton) actually has a PhD in math. But, if we change the movie to Will being extremely talented in something other than math it doesn't really affect the narrative that much.
His gripe isn’t that he’s extremely talented in maths specifically, it could be anything. The problem is that it uses extreme creative liberty that nearly obscures the message of the movie. His overwhelming genius blurs the line between the real and the fantastical, which is a shame because the rest of the movie is very grounded and honest. The movie wouldn’t lose anything by showing Will working hard at something, learning something new, admitting he doesn’t know something etc
I'd compare and contrast this movie with the Biopic The Man Who Knew Infinity, about the legitimate genius Ramanujan. The latter film makes it clear that Ramanujan has generational ability in math, but it doesn't take the extra step of having him demean world-class mathematicians as a way of saying he's some kind of Kyrptonian in math. Damon and Affleck could have had Will Hunting be a genius without taking the extra step of describing Lambeau's work as "a joke". And they do this while botching the content of the math being presented. There are worse movies about math, but there are also far better ones.
My gripe was that he was also exceptionally good in basket and that I could solve the second problem eyes closed, while I am a joke in math. There is also an older short story of a young math genius, who also got recognition and the girl , then claimed he lost his math and just stayed where he was.
@@rickdesper The reason will demeans Lambeau is that Will is an asshole. He's arrogant. Sean calls him that. Will keeps everyone's at arms length with a thick dose of sarcasm and trash talk. He doesn't want people to like him that much because he can't really handle that, as we see several times in the movie.
@@Chubbywubbysandwich That's the thing: this movie was made before the internet, streaming services, smartphones and social media. It was never meant to be scrutinized like this. The actual problem on the board was missing the point: it could have been completely invisible for all I care. It's irrelevant to the point of the story.
@@FrostByte112The internet existed in 1997. 😂 It would have been easy to search for a math problem or just get in touch with a university. Authors and screenwriters are just lazy sometimes. I don't think this was true here though, very few of the audience members saw this as an easy problem, and the few who did probably felt very clever. At least one of them felt so clever they made an entire video about it.
well okay but it's nice when the universe a story is set in is somewhat plausible or works. Queen's Gambit is good because the chess is fucking legit. John Wick is good because Keanu's martial arts is really fucking good. The Matrix is good because Keanu's kung fu is cool. So if Good Will Hunting is basically bullshit behind the scenes well that's just not ideal.
I think it is kind of a respect problem for me. You don't just get into a field and solve every problem there is. There is nothing truly easy under the sun. It takes time and effort to become expert at anything even if you are a genius, it is the work of many people before us. You should respect their contributions, you are standing on the shoulders of giants. It is the collective wisdom of human. I find it quite off putting. It is as if they are only using math as a tool 11:25 for displaying some non realistic genus without respecting the subject itself.
I'm not that good in math, so I didn't notice this in this particular movie. But you've just perfectly described the feeling I get when this happens in a field that I do know something about.
He has this big "badass" moment at the beginning of the movie where he's at a bar and mocks some guys for not reading advanced philosophy or whatever lol it just comes across as pretentious and stupid.
@Cabesandia tbf if I remember right the dude started it with Ben Affleck's character and Will walks in and knocks it out of the park. Either way it is pretentious, they're intellectuals. That's the worse thing about intellectuals: they engross themselves into the knowledge they study to equate it to some form importance. It's obnoxious, just because say I studied physics sure I should probably think it's important to at least me. But that doesn't mean I should look down on people for not studying it or even knowing what I know. It's insanely egomaniacal like what Will does when he comes across his therapist to start stroking himself off with his knowledge to verbally assault the man. To think you're so high and mighty for what you study but the efforts of others who studied don't also make them intelligent? It's just dumb and a real shame that people like this really exist.
100%. I have a high IQ but due to my upbringing and violent father, I got no support, zero help with homework etc. My grades were never good... I got a bride understanding of many things but once I hit algebra and especially calulus, I had to study like everyone else. If I don't put in the work, I'm not smarter than anyone. Having a high IQ just helps to understand some things more quickly, making wierd connections and relations about things.
3:37 Skylar too? Dude, the scene where Will explodes and turn it into an argument between him and her and she realizing what he went through always pulls a heart string. Her switch to that kind of teary empathy is just a cherry on a cake. Totally a memorial moment of the movie.
Philosophy major here with an undergraduate degree. I have the SAME relationship with Abel Ferrara’s 1995 “The Addiction”. It’s a great movie, unless you studied collegiate philosophy. It centers around PhD philosophy students. Yet during the entire film, their theses are all based around second year basic Continental philosophy undergraduate courses. A professor tells the PhD students to read a Sartre essay that I dissected in 200 level courses. Philosophy doctorate theses are HIGHLY specialized and specific. 0.001%, I would wager, would to be write a paper about the themes in “Being And Nothingness”. It would be a hackneyed thesis that would never get approved for investigation. When I saw the movie, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Cops, doctors, journalists, etc must cackle at soooo many films. I was too dense to realize that until it directly affected me. Great video.
There's a scene in the movie 21 where Kevin Spacey teaches a math class, and it's so clearly written by a humanities major. Every little detail is a humanities class with math terms slapped on top. The class focuses on the biographies of famous mathematicians rather than problem solving. And even little things are wrong, like Spacey asking students to turn in their "papers" instead of their assignments or problem sets.
FWIW, I like the idea of math students having to write papers from time to time. That's how the work is done at the highest levels, after all. But, yes, it's far more standard to have problem sets.
The adjacency matrix describes the number of links from each node to its neighbors, aka the number of neighbors. So if you apply the matrix to a vector where the index of the row is the node number, then you get the number of its neighbors. So if you apply the matrix twice, you will get the number of neighbors of the neighbors, (aka you did a 2 step walk). If you apply it a 3rd time, you get the neighbors of those neighbors (aka 3 step walk). Applying the matrix 3 times is equivalent to multiplying it by itself twice (aka matrix to the cube), and it gives the number of 3 step walks.
He actually is just not explaining it very well. Those kind of problems could be taught around 10th grade, because it is more about "follow this recipe" than having to proof stuff.
it specifically doesnt show the equations in great detail or try and explain them to you because you arent meant to see them or try to solve them, the point of them is to look complex so that you see will as super smart, its just a placeholder for any real or fictional math problem so complicated that you cant comprehend it. this cant be a fault on the movie, i mean if they just never showed any of the math on screen at any point, would you be happier then? they are placeholders, they look complicated from a distance and in a blur to the viewer
Quoting Dr Nick Nicholas, PhD in Linguistics from Melbourne University... What is the plural form of the word "vertex"? Why is it irregular? "Vertices." Why? Because the word is straight of out Latin, and Latin has a lot of declensions that look weird from the perspective of English. In particular, the plural vertices suggests that the singular should be vertix, just like the singular of matrices is matrix. There are a lot of -ices plurals corresponding to -ex singulars in Latin thoough, and historical linguists mumble something about analogy and/or vowel reduction. Sihler's New Comparative Grammar p. 67 is my source for the mumblings. Why use the Latin vertices rather than a regular vertexes? Because (a) vertex is a learnèd, rare word; (b) vertex is a word straight out of Latin, that never really was assimilated into English; (c) even common Latin words following the -ex -ices pattern don't readily get regularised into English, precisely because -ex is so redolent of Latin. We say indexes now, but we still say indices too; it's the more common meaning of index, as what's in the back of a book, that gets the English indexes plural.
I may not be remembering everything about the movie correctly but perhaps the most realistic part is that nobody in the public school system seemed to have previously identified Will’s abilities.
Seems like good will hunting and “whiplash” have the exact same ratio of good:bad. Whiplash similarly has some of the best acting, emotion, and writing I’ve ever seen. But, similar to GWH, it takes extreme liberty with the culture surrounding jazz music. Great video!
Gus van Sant has gone on record saying that the math in the film is just made to look complicated for non mathematicians, so your correct that none of this makes sense 😭😭
I hate that a production team for a full-blown Hollywood movie doesn't come even close to the respect that Futurama writers have for their audience in a single science/math gag.
PLEASE, this movie has a MacGuffin, and it has almost nothing to do with the actual math problem. It could have been not shown, and been just as important. It is a fantastic movie.
To bring a counterpoint : He is not a Gary Stew. A Mary Sue or a Gary stew character, is one that never really fails, is good at everything, everyone around them just instantly love/like them. Will Hunting might have out of this world intelect, but he has a tragic past that makes him a pretty shit person with a whole world of doubts and fear and trust issues. And with Robin, learns to love himself and be a better person. He grows has a character through out the film which a Mary/Gary character usually don't grow since they are perfect from the get go.
This movie was written from the perspective of someone who was not a genius at math. Matt Damon can't make up genius level math problems, because he's not a genius level mathematician. I don't think there was ever much thought given to the perspective of someone who actually understands the math problem. It's never meant to be taken seriously as a real math problem.
@@stephenpreston1410 proving OP's point, its not important. Sure, it's strange watching this movie while having a similar problem as homework in uni, with 2 weeks to solve. The average viewer looks at the equation the same way the characters in the movie do. Its just this none important aspect, for the majority , which was irrelevant to it becoming a classic. ( Unfortunately im not sure of good parallels in other fields to draw comparisons but I'll try: ) it's as if your a math focused person looking at protein folding, the whole concept is just too foreign to you that even the most basic problems are hard; the linguistics around the problem are too advanced for the average person to comprehend and start to solve. Even just using the word 'graph' and showing ' a different one' completely usurps the average views understanding of graphs.
if they wanted to make a story about a math genius who was outside the system and retired from math without giving his full potential they should made a movie about grigori perelman
That's the thing, that's not the story they wanted to tell. The math is set dressing for the story. He could have just as easily been a genius at chemistry, physics, music, etc. and the movie would be largely the same. The math problems in this movie are actually macguffins to get the plot rolling moreso than an important element of the story itself.
Perlman's mom, I believe, was a university math professor and she quit her job to foster his talent. He grew up in an ideal environment for math and his success is great but not altogether unexpected. Will Hunting grew up in abusive foster families who presumably were not encouraging him to do 4-6 hours of math a day as a young kid. His mathematical ability is of course simply magic. (I still enjoyed the movie.) Everyone who's outstanding at math does lots and lots of math and has talent for it.
@@j.a.8992 i see the ambiguity of my comment i didnt mean outside the system like if the guy wasnt in math but when he solve the problem it took like 3 years of verification for the community to know what perelman have proven, even tough his knowledge wasnt unexpected that sounds kinda magical to me, damm just thinking a bit i can think of a lot of mathematicians that would make good movies mr le blank turing tartaglia come to mind
"do you like apples?" "Oh lord I do like apples, wow this sucks, I can't tell him no because he'll see right through that, because boy do I sure like apples" *clears throat* "No, I don't like apples" "Oh? Really? Uhhmm... Do you like bananas? Because I got her number, isn't that bananas?"
They also take a lot of creative liberties with the Ramanujan Biography during the scene in the bar between Shean (Robin Williams) and Lambo (Stellan Skarsgard) although to be fair I've known a lot of people, even mathematicians who actually believe Ramanujan basically someday found a math book and got all his knoledge magically from that simple book
As an expert chess player, i can relate to the nerd rage exhibited here. There was/is a common trope in nearly every sitcom where 2 players play chess and right when one of them starts bragging about their superior ability, the other replies "checkmate". Bad enough any novice player would brag while not being able to see they lose in literally 1 move, the timing is lazily plot driven. Thats not the worst part for nerd rage however. The worst part is the pieces are usually not even set up legally let alone could a real game or checkmate be possible! Im starting to hypothesize that chess wasnt the point of the show, but cant be certain.
Well, the 'mate in 1 move' part could still be explained in terms of them actually being novice players who think way too highly of themselves (of course this explanation becomes harder to sell when they've boasted in the scene before they were a club champion three times or some such thing). The illegal position thing bothers me too, even when I know it isn't really relevant to the story and most viewers won't even notice it.
The Simpsons did a love letter episode to Chess and even brought Magnus Carlson on as a guest star. I think you'd REALLY like the accuracy of the episode. Just a taste, Homer's journey starts with him losing in a very specific way, the Fool's Mate; losing in the shortest amount of moves that can only happen if you and your opponent play in a specific way.
Doesn't bother me in the least. If they solved Fermat's Last Theorem in the script before Wiles gave his lecture, that would be impressive. But I don't expect them to subject us lay audience to real difficult math problems that we wouldn't understand anyway, or to solve an unsolved math problem on screen before the math community knew about it. They gave us the impression Will was a genius, and used theatrical mumbo-jumbo to make it believable. As far as Will not putting any effort into this, I don't that. I always assumed he was doing this behind the scenes, late nights when he wasn't hanging with his buddies.
But the nice thing about Fermat's Last Theorem is that it's actually quite easy to understand. (The theprem, not the proof) But they wanted problems that sounded complicated, so matrices ans Advanced Fourrier Systems it was 😉
I love what you wanted to do with this video, genuinely. We need more essays about mathematics on this platform. It is because I respect it so much that I feel compelled to outline my criticisms, so I hope you will receive them in that spirit. Firstly-and I know it's a small thing-you really should say 'vertex' instead of 'verticy'. It's not only a pet peeve of many people (myself included), but getting terminology like that wrong undermines the viewer's perception of your authority on the subject. It's ironic, too, since pedantic details are precisely what the essay seeks to address! Secondly, the degree of mathematical background you assume is inconsistent. You spent a decent chunk of the video explaining what a matrix is, how we enumerate cells, etc., suggesting that you don't expect the viewer to have any familiarity with matrices. But at around 8:30, you refer to matrix multiplication with no accompanying explanation. I understand why you did this; it would take a long time to explain how matrix multiplication works and why it works that way, disrupting the flow of the essay for very little payoff (the rigour of exercise 2's solution is not central to your analysis of the movie). Indeed, I think you were right not to include it. But in that case, you ought to assume that your viewer is familiar with basic matrix manipulation, thereby making redundant the part of the video in which you introduce matrices. Thirdly, I don't think the comparison to Amadeus is apt. Amadeus embellishes and invents historical details for creative and storytelling purposes, whereas the mathematical shortcomings of Good Will Hunting serve no narrative purpose. As such, a historian could likely dismiss the historical inaccuracies in Amadeus on the basis that the film is fictional, while no comparable excuse exists for Good Will Hunting. The problem on the board could have easily been substituted for, say, the twin prime conjecture, and the plot of the film would have been entirely unaffected. Fourthly, the final section of your video is not only superfluous, but actively counterproductive. Sure, Good Will Hunting is a film about trust and all that good stuff, but how does this relate to your main thesis (mathematical inaccuracies in the film and why they matter). Moreover, ending your essay by emphasising that the film is not actually about mathematics per se, you unintentionally lead the viewer to misunderstand the point of the video. It is no surprise that many people missed the point of the video, evidenced by the several comments along the lines of, "Well, that's not what the film was about, so who cares?" Mathematicians do! Perhaps this could have been avoided had you stated more explicitly why the mathematical inaccuracies in the film are an actual problem that matters, which is my final criticism. Sure, most people are not mathematicians and they won't care about this, but those who know some mathematics will surely notice the things you pointed out and will have their suspension of disbelief ruined by it. What's more, as I argued in the previous paragraph, this problem is entirely avoidable because, unlike in Amadeus, the mathematical substance is irrelevant to the plot.
I agree with all of your points. I completely admit that this video was rushed. I committed to making 1 video per week until the fall semester started, and though I recognized these flaws while editing, I felt my complaints with the movie were reasonably voiced. And I didn't want to re-record, script, and edit everything. I am fortunate that my videos have seemed to take off, and at this point I think I have to recognize that I have a much larger audience than I originally thought I would. For the future I will be more careful to drive home the point that I am really trying to convey. For what it's worth, I am satisfied with the video, even with it's flaws. And I welcome all discourse and criticism (like yours) about it
Richard Feynman was once asked if another Michael Faraday type might come along someday to help solve our physics problems. Feynman said no, because Faraday was not conversant in the math needed to do the work (Faraday barely knew algebra). I see the same with GWH. I idea that a janitor might be a genius is okay, but without the math background he'd be useless. Ramanujan was also an underemployed genius, but he knew his stuff and had worked on it alone for years before being discovered.
There's 4 iterations of 4->2->3->2 1. top line from 2 to 3 and then back through top line 2. top line from 2 to 3 and then back through bottom line 3. bottom line from 2 to 3 and then back through top line 4. bottom line from 2 to 3 and then back through bottom line Then there's 4242, 4212 and 4142 as you mentioned
I want to thank you for this! I recently added a math major to my computer science major, but have found myself frustrated because I haven’t enjoyed math as much. Thanks to your videos, I have started following along when you do the math, which has forced me to look deeper and think further about math! This has been a lot of fun!!! Thank you so much!
PhD mathematician/ professor here: 1. Yes, finding the adjacency matrix of a graph is trivial. 2. No, the singular of 'vertices' is 'vertex' - not the non-word neologism of 'verticy'. 3. Correct - it's graph theory... not the word salad with "advanced Fourier..." whatever nonsense. 4. Getting the numbers of three-step walks is taking the cube of the original adjacency matrix. You're not a mathematician, you say? I can't say I'm surprised, but I do give you credit for the your observations about the absurdity of a Fields Medalist going ga-ga over a student who really did not solve something that hard... (And I would have enjoyed seeing you set up the generating functions!)
My brother in Christ, you really want a dedicated filmmaker to actually solve one of the big math problems for the sake of authenticity. I respect that. ;)
People like Will exist in abundance in the math field, that is probably why they chose math as the event catalyst, but he is an archetype to debate another thing. If you like the main theme I would also recommend the brazilian book "O Alienista" by Machado de Assis.
99% of the people in the math field have innate ability and put a lot of work on top of it. There have been a few cases where the levels obtained were truly mysterious, like Evariste Galois and Ramanujan. Both however were using idiosyncratic language to express their findings. Will Hunting even knows the syntax of math without being educated.
It doesn't matter how hard the actual math problem was because most people don't know advanced math so the actual point was still made. For the audience it's just supposed to look like a complex math problem that this kid figures out.
The most hilarious thing about Amadeus in my opinion, is that Mozart died flat broke, poorer than he would have been if he'd never touched an instrument. Salieri on the other hand was filthy rich and influential.
I vaguely remember hearing an interview with someone who was responsible for writing the stuff on the board for this movie. I think they were just asked to put some mathy stuff on the board and I bet they did graph theory. Re: Fourier transform, presumably you could prove that a given representation is equal to the Fourier transform of a certain expression.
I think the biggest thing GWH is missing is "love for the field". People who devote their life to a discipline love it, they love music, they love math, they love art, the business, the farm, etc. etc. WH does not. For a realistic loner genius, who is willing to go into poverty or whatever tremendous sacrifices for art, philosophy, math, etc. -- and I know many, either personally or throughout history -- this love is immediately apparent and never diminishes. Their antagonism with others is centered entirely around love -- how *others have betrayed or diminished the field that they love*. In other words, in no world is there ever a person like the main character, who has committed that much time to a field and demonstrates no love for it. And this is why I think the movie is downright unwatchable -- because Hollywood, California, USA is so myopic, so unaware, so narcissistic, so limited in their worldview that they can conceive of love only between man and woman or human and other human but not love of a man for a project (a work, a farm, a field) that is, without a doubt, far, far stronger.
100% spot on. Rogue geniuses can be angry but it's an anger directed at people and the field not being "all-in" enough on new ideas or able to see. It would be funny to get Hollywood to write a screenplay for a movie where the best actor ever hates acting, movies, and directors, but everyone realizes they are the best actor ever. Obviously that doesn't make sense, but they will write stories.like that for other fields. I could never watch GWH from beginning to end, but I thought "A Beautiful Mind" was a great movie. I'm sure the latter was very dramatized, but at least the singular-obsession fits correctly.
@@Sn0wZer0 Yeah I think a beautiful mind was decent. Man's relationship to an inhuman sublime, eg math, tends to transform a person, into not just being a pretentious jerk, the idea being that no matter how big you are relative to other men, you still pale in comparison to the object of study. Beautiful mind deals with insanity, but wish it situated it more in the context of something like transhuman transformation before the sublime. I'm not sure if this counts, but it would be interesting to see a movie about Kurt Godel, who was a famous mathematician that died from self-starvation because he would only eat meals that his wife prepared.
he was mid doing it and got caught (and the professor thought he was vandalizing it), discovered he was solving it and that means he was the person who solved the first one.
The math is just a MacGuffin; it’s there to get the plot rolling. They used mathematics because most of us have no idea of advanced math-that problem looks extremely difficult. But they could have put physics or Ancient Greek on the board: same effect. Will is wicked smaht and is wasting his gifts.
True. But why not get it right too? Any mathematician could have told them to write down the Goldbach Conjecture on the chalkboard, which is super easy to state yet unsolved, and put "Goldbach Conjecture" in Skarsgard's lines. Every mathematician would have chuckled instead of facepalmed. And for the rest of the audience it would have made no difference.
@@knotwilg3596In the end of it why get it right? If just one proponent of this entire debacle is solved, there would be no need to converse about it. It’s honestly more genius to leave an easier problem on the board that even the 1% will understand vs having 0% understand and no be left as a critic. The 1% won’t be able to complain about the impressive math beholden, while the 99% is still left amazed by the same exact work. What do you gain from this?
I think the point was that the math isn't advanced at all - probably within the reach of high school students in many countries. There is another problem in the movie about finding all homeomorphically irreducible acyclic graphs of 10 nodes. Also pretty straightforward. If "1+1" is difficulty level "0" and proving Fermat's Last Theorem "100", the difficulty level of the problems in the movie are probably still "0".
Lots of movies that delve into difficult topics don't get actual experts to help them with the details. But then again, most of the people who watch these movies have no knowledge of the specialized field, so it barely matters. I'm really impressed with movies that do get the details right when I'm in a position to understand them. Its the difference between basic entertainment and really great art.
Good Will Hunting is my favorite movie of all time. However, this is a fair criticism and one I've seen different variations of over the past two decades or so. Good video, and subbed. 👍
Admittedly, the math isn't the point in the movie, but then why not simply get that right too? It would have pleased the mathematicians among us (oh yeah, they got that right!) while making no difference for the 99% others. As the OP points out, the flaky math isn't the actual problem: it's the idea that you can be effortlessly great at something, perhaps anything. This is a perversion of the American Dream, which promises anyone can make it, provided hard work (and some talent). It discourages youngsters to make an effort, rather wait until some sponsor finally sees their genius.
That is actually a more relevant point. Also, the reactions of those who have suffered childhood abuse. Some people felt it spoke to them but others were astounded (and angered) by how superficial and unrealistic they felt it was (in terms of the recovery process).
@@howard5992 the recovery seems fast and superficial, but why does wills healing process need to end with that single scene in the movie? why cant he continue to heal for the rest of his life as we all do with our trauma, and most of all, how self centered do you actually have to be to claim other peoples trauma and healing need to look exactly like yours for it to be legitimate?.
In Glod Will Hunting, they clearly just put something that is mathematical and real that most people won't understand. It's a movie about a genius that doesn't work if the audience has a background in Math, amd and a movie about therapy that won't work if the audience has a background in therapy. Also, how does Will Hunting even understand the question or notation? It's like being a genius makes you automatically understand foreign languages after hearing a single sentence. "But he reads all kinds of books on his spare time". If he were that guy he wouldn't have the friends that he does. He would be seen as a nerd or bookworm to them. I know that there are levels of genius where smart people make complex things seem effortless, but generally the smartest people still push themselves super hard. I am practically sick of the genius who doesn't try at anything in life at all. If that were the case Will Hunting would deserve to be exactly where he was in life.
He doesn't tell his friends he reads. He does work hard, he understands the notation because he's read a lot of advanced math books, speed reading them apparently with a photographic memory. He taught himself, realistic? I doubt it, but possible in theory. Satisfied?
@@Mnil52 OK, plausible. I guess I have a problem with the way that the sort of person who enjoys speed reading theoretical physics isn't the kind of person who blends in with people with a lukewarm IQ.
@@shawandrew Sure, It doesn't sit right because the problem is there probably is no one like him in the world. Because the brain requires a lot in early childhood to develop, prenatal nutrition, good genetics, not living in places with lead water pipes, constant interaction as a baby etc etc so it's not like a lot of future Einsteins are living in the slums of Dehli reading quantum mechanics papers waiting to be discovered.
The math problem is a "McGuffin" commonly used in movies and stories in general to advance the plot. It really doesn't matter if the math problem makes sense. Pulp Fiction had a glowing briefcase, the assult scene in Thelma and Louise, the bank robbery in Psycho. Not important to the journey. Alfred Hitchcock used it many times. As a matter of fact it is referenced in High Anxiety and Deadpool /Wolverine. Once you recognize it, its hard to miss. Enjoy.
I enjoyed your going through the math problem. I don't really have a problem with the problem per se. I believe that the mathematician Danny Kleitman was asked to provide a real mathematics problem for the movie (which he dutifully did, and in exchange, was made an extra in the film, with about one second of screen time, walking by the window in the Minnie Driver scene), but they didn't give him the proper context, so he didn't know what level of difficulty of problem to supply them with. Anyway, since the average American's mathematical knowledge is so low, it doesn't really matter what problem is put on the blackboard, since they won't understand it. A more serious criticism, which you point out, is that even though there are mathematical prodigies out there who can solve some very difficult problems with lightning speed, there are definitely lots of problems which nobody can solve effortlessly. The director could have fixed this flaw without disturbing the main point of the movie, by still portraying Will as a prodigy, but a prodigy who refuses to apply himself to any problem that he can't solve instantly, because it bores him. That would be realistic and would also plausibly evoke frustration and jealousy in a top mathematician. Sadly, again I think the problem is that the director knew that the American public is so ignorant of mathematics that there was little point in trying to get this kind of detail right.
This is an excellent point. It would have been so much more compelling to both academics and non-academics alike to see a character that shows true genius but won't apply it to the really hard problems. The attitude extends not just to academia but to life in general so it fits with the rest of the movie. Great idea.
I know I should have expected this clicking on a video discussing the math in this movie, but I feel like Will being a prodigy isn’t really that important? I think him being perfect at any academic thing he tries is more to show that his lack of “success” in life doesn’t stem from him being incapable, allowing the movie to focus more on the emotional and social barriers he struggles with.
It's hard because no matter how smart you are, if you have no support, no one caring for you, no help, it makes it harder and harder to continue, and actually achieve something. I believe that's where creating inspiration matters more. If you're passionate, you'll enjoy it, and learn it. If you don't, you don't. One year I was inspired by math, another 4-5 years by biology then chemistry and circles back around into physics and then math again, then repeats. I've been stuck in this loop for 14 years.
while i have not studied graph theory, i have studied matrices and determinants in high school, after you explained the pathways as elements of matrix, it became too easy for MIT lol
Dude, did you not see the 2 year old mathematician on America's Got Talent 3 months ago? His father asks the judges for two numbers. The dad is given 7 and 9. The dad writes 7x9 on the white board. The kid looks at it and writes 63 on the board. The judges and the audience of thousands sit there in absolute silence and anticipation until... about 5 seconds go by... and the dad has to say "yes" to his son. Only then, do the judges and crowd exclaim with awe and wonder and cheers of disbelief that this 2 year old got the right answer. No adult in the room of thousands knew whether the kid had gotten 7*9 right until someone said confirmed it. Simon Cowell even said after the kid did a couple more problems, that he wished they'd all had calculators. Moral of the story: Will Hunting is a genius in the eyes of the 99%.
@@indigohammer5732 my criticism isn't that the kid did the calculation. It's that the judges and the entire crowd didn't know the correct answer to 7*9.
Any movie that sets itself in a world of experts on any topic has this struggle. A more recent one was "Whiplash," which (as infamously put by Adam Neely) has far more in common with sports than it does jazz education. People still defend it for its performances and tension, but I can't get past the exaggerated emphasis on competition and ladder climbing, when musical collaboration is not that at all. And also the main character's love for Buddy Rich, which is rich (pun intended) given that Rich was not as respected among his fellow musicians as he would have you believe.
Yeah - I have a Ph.D. with a major in chemistry - certainly wouldn't have taken a whole night to decipher the nmr spectrum that they showed either, but i don't feel the need to make a youtube video about it. Don't have time to make a video every time that a movie gets the maths or science wrong, but power to you dude for the education. Mass spectrometer that spits out molecular structure for Sean Connery would have sure save me a heap of time :D
And on the subject of math, Nikola Tesla could solve second derivative multivariate calculus equations in his head, without having to write anything down. And his math teachers accused him of cheating on his exams. As someone who barely passed freshman calculus, this kind of blew my mind.
To be fair, the real-life story the intro is based on is similarly absurd: George Dantzig sees some previously unproven theorems on the blackboard, thinks they are homework, then solves them. His teacher was so impressed that he told Dantzig he could stick them in a binder and hand them in as his phd thesis.
He doesn´t say that it is about math, just that they could have made a better job with the math part of it. I love the movie, but there are a lot of problems with Will´s character.
Ever heard of John Von Neuman? He was a mathematician born in the early 1900s. It is interesing that you would mention Will's intellect being otherworldly, Von Neumann's mind was apparently so otherworldly, that the noble prize winning physicicists and mathematicians at the time referred to him as "The martian". He could do mental math in his head faster than some early computers and memorize entire books verbatim retaining the information for years. He invented the field of game theory, the concept of mutually assured destruction, and then used his chemistry expertise to help invent the icbm. He also was the one to come up with the compression design that ultimateley enabled the creation of the plutonium atom bomb. It took him three days to do so. Finally, he came up with the idea of a self replicating machine that contains it own blueprint, the Von Neumann Probe, before DNA was discovered and before it was understood that cells are exactly that type of machine. Lastly you mentioned Will inventing AGI, Von Numann basically invented the architecture behind the modern computer and the idea of artificial intelligence through numerical simulation. Perhaps if he was not limited by the technology of his time, creating AGI is exactly what he would have done. The most shocking thing about him for me was when I visited his wikipedia page. The "known for" section was long enough that it took me several seconds to reach the bottom and only then did I notice the "see more" button that more than doubled its length. They have since split it into multiple separeate pages. I havent even mentioned the time he rescued the entire field of mathematics from Russell's paradox or his contributions to quantum mechanincs.
Von Neummann was certainly one of the greatest mathematicians of the 20th century, and he had a far broader reach than many of his math colleagues. His most influential work was in the foundation of computer science. But he wasn't leaps about bounds ahead of his contemporaries.
@@rickdesper obvious nonsense if you ever listended to some of this contemporaries. you could've easily entered wikiquote and have it right there: teller, blackwell, ulam... you might ask yourself why you're so full of yourself that you'd rather phantasize about bullshit instead of just looking things up.
@@rickdesper "I have known a great many intelligent people in my life. I knew Max Planck, Max von Laue, and Wemer Heisenberg. Paul Dirac was my brother-in-Iaw; Leo Szilard and Edward Teller have been among my closest friends; and Albert Einstein was a good friend, too. And I have known many of the brightest younger scientists. But none of them had a mind as quick and acute as Jancsi von Neumann. I have often remarked this in the presence of those men, and no one ever disputed me." -Eugene Wigner, Nobel Prize winning theoretical physicist
I had a friend in elementary school as smart as Will Hunting. He explained wormholes to me in 2nd grade. We used to play a verbal roleplaying game where we'd put each other in difficult situations and the other would have to explain how they'd survive. When I started him in space above a planet without oxygen and he still survived, I gave up. Did you know about angles for slow atmospheric breaking or that you can extract oxygen from rocks in elementary school? It wouldn't have worked in reality, but that isn't the point. He was reading college physics books in elementary school. In 3rd grade, when we were reading aloud in a circle, the teacher had to tell him to slow down. Nobody else could listen as fast as he could read. He, I, and another friend wanted to make our own version of a King's Quest style game in 5th grade (it was 1989). He did the programming in hypercard. When we had typing class on our old computers that didn't even have hard drives, he entered the operating system and started writing a Q Basic program. Oh, and he was excellent at karate. Very dorky, but strong as an ox. He burned out a little in high school (went to a different high school than I did, but I heard about him occasionally) and didn't go to as good a college as you'd expect. He also quit karate 1 step shy of his black belt. But he turned it around and is now a successful neuroscientist.
@@EdinoRemerido He's not famous, just successful. I'm not going to put his name out there for people to Google. First name is David. Last name is very distinctive and easy to Google. Starts with a Y. That's all I'll say.
@@EdinoRemerido I don't know who that is. It's not who I'm talking about. The person I'm talking about is not famous, just very very very smart. And posting a RUclips comment is not a way to get clout. If I wanted clout I'd talk about impressive things about myself rather than the fact that I happened to have known a super smart guy as a kid that I haven't seen in over 30 years. That's not impressive.
There are apparently some people who haven't watched the full movie. The main character janitor guy didn't have formal educarion, but he read every book that the college library had, so he was very math literae
Yeah this is true. I don't really have an issue with the fact that he solved the problem on the board. Moreso with the fact that he's just better than Lambeau at math by a mile, calling his work a joke. I don't care how smart you are, the work of a Fields Medalist isn't going to be a "joke" to you Edit: At least in a difficulty sense
It takes more than book reading to become so good at math that you can be dismissive of basically everybody else on the planet. It really does help enormously to interact with other mathematicians.
@@rickdesper I know about that, I'm just trying to explain to the people that are using the argument that a janitor would know nothing about math that he actually had done a lot of research.
@@Phanimations Yeah, what amazes me about the movie (even though I understand that Will wants to hang out with his buddies) is that he hasn´t been able to find any other intellectual friend and talks about how he have conversations with dead philosophers. In that sense I think a beatiful mind is a better depiption of a math genious.
@@jankogo High IQs are statistically rare. Considering that many smart people prefer to stay home and read, it's actually not hard to understand at all.
I'm curious how you know that the singular of 'matrices' is 'matrix', but not that the singular of 'vertices' is 'vertex'. 'vertex' is not even a rare word. it's one of the basic parts of a parabola, for instance. so... what the hell happened to you that you never learned this word?
I''m sure in an interview the director or Matt and Ben said that they chose math problems that looked impressive and visual (with diagrams, matrices etc.) rather than ones that were exceedingly technical or difficult. It's just a case of style over substance where 90% of the audience can't tell the difference.
Will Hunting was based on someone in real life. He was based on William Sidis, the “smartest” person ever who had accomplished many feats. However, just like Will Hunting, William Sidis had a rebellious lifestyle and in the end, he rejected academia and went completely underground and presumably lived a normal life.
There is a pretty big difference between changing historical facts and having one random math problem on a board not being as hard as they say it is in the movie. Yes it would be better if it was an actual hard equation for extra realism, but from the movie and story perspective it just needs to "look like math" for the shot where we se the blackboard and for us to know that it is hard and Will solves it. I really can't see how that is the equivalent of changing historical facts
Patreon Video (It's Free) Explaining the Other two parts of the problem. www.patreon.com/posts/good-will-parts-111363188?Link&
promo?
@@ddodd69 I mean kinda yeah. I like to post the stuff on Patreon as it kills 2 birds with one stone
1. I want to put content on Patreon lol, and video addendums are the easiest and provide a good deal of value.
2. It funnels people to the Patreon, but I do plan to keep most of the content on there free.
I could upload it on a second YT channel, or as an unlisted YT video, but I'd rather just have it on there as long as there aren't any big drawbacks. This also allows me to be just slightly less strict with copyright.
The video's locked - only available to paid members
@@GrimmyPigeon Oh sh*t thanks for pointing that out to me. I fix that now. It’s annoying bc Patreon defaults to it being only available to paid members
@@Phanimations I just created an account via Gmail, still says locked and to upgrade for access.
Good will hunting is in an alternate universe where everyone is very very bad at math
@vin-i5h is an attempt to justify to oneself the oversight the direction had with the math part of the movie. It is like when your favorite character has an ending you don't find satisfying in a series an you convince yourself of it being having a different ending. It is also known as copium. 😅
@@oioio-yb9dwI don’t think they were really asking what they meant by alternate, I think they were jokingly saying that we already live in a universe where everyone is very very bad at math
So... Our universe
@@oioio-yb9dw ?
Maybe It's the prequel to Idiocracy
As an aero engineer and mathematician, I can tell you aviation movies are far more painful to watch than the Good Will Hunting from a math point of view.
no youre not
@@dangerdangerTrapeze It’s really not that strange on a video about math for someone with a job in a math related field to be watching it. You’re acting as if engineers are as rare as astronauts.
@@tonydai782 i dont know you
@@dangerdangerTrapeze and I don't care to know you
@@dangerdangerTrapeze Yet you replied to the first guy, who you don't know.
Pick a lane, bozo.
A huge problem with that type of smart people is them just knowing and understanding all the technical terms as if 3/4 of them dont have some weird history making them impossible to just understand by being smart
Yeah this is a point I didn't touch on really. (Though to be fair, Will had read A LOT, so he would have known all the math Jargon). It's more the idea that things just come naturally to him.
The idea that Will could have been so much better than Lambeau without even trying is laughable. Still love the movie, just have this gripe that I though i'd make a video out of.
@@Phanimations idk why i said huge problem i meant more like a weird thing i guess u got me into a criticizing mood 😅
I generally also like the concept of a super smart human in movies even if they are as goofy as sherlock
@@Phanimations There are some types of once in a generation or perhaps even century geniuses. George Dantzig solved two open problems in statistics, because he thought they were homework, the professor had written them up to show the class some of the unsolved problems of statistics. Though the big difference here is that he had allready completed a masters degree and worked with statistics professionally before starting his PhD. George Dantzig was probably not even a once in a generation genius.
@@redgribben7679 Yes this is true. I'm not denying that generational geniuses exist, the main issue is the ease with which Will does things.
George Dantzig IIRC spent a week toiling away at the homework problems, whereas Will considers these problems to be "a f**king joke". That level of disrespect is a bit offensive and completely unrealistic
yes
Basically everytime a scientist watch a space movie. A car person watching a car movie. A musician watching a musical. A lawyer watching a legal movie.
I don't see why directors shouldn't put as much effort in their script as a writer would in that case.
See also, 11 years ago "
The problem in Good Will Hunting - Numberphile"
I have a PhD in math and none of the math liberties in the film bother me. It's not what the film is about at all. In your other examples, the movie is largely about the thing. Legal movies almost always center on the actual courtroom antics, the lawyer's skill being the thing the movie is about. They don't really make legal films what are about, say, a junior lawyer trying to negotiate the social organization of lawyer circles. It's always about that guy being a stud in the courtroom. Car movies aren't about complex friendships and drama that ensues in those communities of people; they're about "how we go vroom vroom." That's why when those things are implausible or just made it, it's annoying, because the details of those things are critical to the plot. It's not mentioned how Will and Lambeau solve problems; it's just shown that they do and them working together is the point, not the problem they solved. The movie never mentions the details of them working on a paper or what journal it will go in, for example.
Or anyone who works in IT watching pretty much anything. It's all so bad.
Given their fantastical nature, musicals aren't so much an issue for musicians as biopics or fiction, where core characters are musicians.
@@JD-gk7eh the movie is about math but the writers Damon and Affleck dont know duck any about it so, we get some psychosocial bable crap that american kids wont have a headache watching
it is an inspiring movie about being happy not learning math as the educational system is too concerned only with the savants, while the rest of the weak other students are ignored.
I clicked on this video thinking this was a video about hunting for clothes at goodwill, left knowing a little more a bout matrixes
matrices*
@simonwong5608 **both are correct :p
@@salierisneighbor9736 from a linguistic standpoint, yes. From a mathemetical standpoint, no
@@simonwong5608 how so?
@@salierisneighbor9736 as in every field, it has its own jargon. In the math field, matrices is considered the accepted plural
The movie is not about math. Its about a very angry young man
This. The problem itself is irrelevant. It's a plot mechanism.
It's about a young man who is throwing away his potential to live down to his peers.
The fact that he's a savant is important to this theme. If he wasn't a man of exceptional talent, there would be no conflict.
@@runthenumbers9698good point
@@runthenumbers9698 Right. And I feel like it's also about attachment disorder. He's afraid to let himself be passionate about math. (Just like he's afraid to let himself love Skylar)
@@runthenumbers9698Totally, but it isn't important for the math problem to actually be exceptionally difficult, only for the audience to understand that it is, and that point is made quite clearly.
I always repeat to myself "you don't owe it too yourself, you owe it too me" whenever I study or go to class or anything. It really is incredibly powerful. Good movie
It's good to have that mentality. Don't let yourself get weighed down by other's expectations though!
You should keep studying. The word is “to” not “too.”
@@Kevin.Simons 😂
@@Kevin.Simons not everyone focuses on studying english.
@@rafaelsantiagoaltoe6606the difference between to and too is so basic it simply cannot be chalked up to a lack of studying
Salieri actually was a great composer and teacher of Beethoven, Liszt, Schubert. It is crime that because of that movie most people know him for what he was not.
The tragedy of the arts is inflation of skill. Though Salieri was a far greater artist than I will ever be, I would rather listen to the other composers you mentioned. (Liszt is a favourite) Indeed, our records are filled with composers and other artists who have "one-in-a-million" talent. Why would one enjoy their works, when he can listen to Mozart?
@@dank_river3318That's just a really bad way to go about appreciating art. Salieri composed good music and nurtured talents bigger than his. The music is out there and can be appreciated, if not for what it is, at least for what it means historically. Many composers have become obscure over the years and it's not always down to inferiority over others. Telemann is another example of a prolific composers that is virtually unknown compared to during his lifetime even though he also composed good music.
@@M2orNotMozart himself also held Salieri in very high esteem.
@@M2orNotgood is subjective
And The Simpsons reinforced it
So now is facts :)
Good Will Hunting is a great movie which treats the whole intellectual part of it the same way a cheap tv series in the 90s would've treated hacking.
"This is a firewall created by NASA for the Pentagon!"
*Scrambles on the keyboard for 7 seconds"
"And we're in!"
The movie's not about it.
I'd be like The Queens Gambit but all the pieces are moving wrong and nobody cares because 'only chess nerds will notice'
@@isbestlizard No
@@isbestlizard Little while ago I watched Hellraiser V: Inferno and there's a random scene of the protagonist playing chess (on a basketball court, as you do) and I was baffled at what was happening on the board. Friday the 13th Part 2 also features a chess game that seems to have been set-up by randomly placing pieces on the board and seeing what happens...
So honestly, Queen's Gambit putting more than 5 minute's effort into making the Chess games make sense would have been better than the average film/show.
You forgot the part where the hacker fails the first time, then makes a slightly frumpy face, then presses the keys for 7 seconds and says "we're in".
Luckily for this movie, it isn’t really about the math. Or the physics, biology, or any of the subjects Will is designed as a character to be the best at. Putting an olympiad level problem on the board would only really have been to appease a slight few. It’s for the same narrative reasons science fiction movies mess with the physics of interstellar travel or gravity to make for a better, easier to follow story. Good will hunting isn’t about Will being a Genius. It’s about him being an idiot. His IQ does very little positive for him, and where he lacks emotionally is what Sean is for.
Yeah not a big fan of this video, I feel it’s disingenuous to pose the lack of difficult math as a problem, it very clearly wasn’t the point. Even if it was a bigger part of the movie, I can’t really blame the writers for failing to write a character smarter than themselves.
If you think the movie is about him being an idiot you may have watched another movie. Maybe Dumb and Dumber.
@@Cabesandia You can be a genius and still be an idiot. That's no contradiction.
@@DoloresLehmann and the movie can be about him being both
@@Cabesandia Exactly. So, what's your problem?
... The singular form of "vertices" is "vertex"...
I wish we'd just called them vertexes the whole time.
Some dictionaries have it as a non-standard alternative form of "vertex" in English. Also in Latin, "vertice" is correct in the ablative case.
@@AndrewKay maybe, but in discrete mathematics (and more specifically, graph theory) the correct term is "vertex"
Just call them nodes and links like us programmers do. Although I know now that it's inspired by polyhedra, vertices and especially edges seem like weird names for a planar graph.
Came here to say this. It's a huge pet peeve of my when people say "vertice". Or, when they say "vertexes"...
Also, putting 3 before 4 is quite dumb. It's like saying
3. Compute (i + j)^2
4. Compute (1 + 3)^2
After finding 3, 4 is just a special case.
In highschool math, that's often how exercises are structured. But yeah, for advanced more complex algebra, etc. It's probably not super useful to work in this order.
I agree that they could've been slightly more accurate with the math, especially since one of the actors (John Mighton) actually has a PhD in math. But, if we change the movie to Will being extremely talented in something other than math it doesn't really affect the narrative that much.
His gripe isn’t that he’s extremely talented in maths specifically, it could be anything. The problem is that it uses extreme creative liberty that nearly obscures the message of the movie. His overwhelming genius blurs the line between the real and the fantastical, which is a shame because the rest of the movie is very grounded and honest. The movie wouldn’t lose anything by showing Will working hard at something, learning something new, admitting he doesn’t know something etc
I'd compare and contrast this movie with the Biopic The Man Who Knew Infinity, about the legitimate genius Ramanujan. The latter film makes it clear that Ramanujan has generational ability in math, but it doesn't take the extra step of having him demean world-class mathematicians as a way of saying he's some kind of Kyrptonian in math. Damon and Affleck could have had Will Hunting be a genius without taking the extra step of describing Lambeau's work as "a joke". And they do this while botching the content of the math being presented.
There are worse movies about math, but there are also far better ones.
My gripe was that he was also exceptionally good in basket and that I could solve the second problem eyes closed, while I am a joke in math.
There is also an older short story of a young math genius, who also got recognition and the girl , then claimed he lost his math and just stayed where he was.
@@rickdesper The reason will demeans Lambeau is that Will is an asshole. He's arrogant. Sean calls him that. Will keeps everyone's at arms length with a thick dose of sarcasm and trash talk. He doesn't want people to like him that much because he can't really handle that, as we see several times in the movie.
@@mrbrightside3440 the movie WOULD lose its entire plot if will had to work at his math and his smarts.
Good Will hunting a a movie about math in the same sense that Shindler's List is about people taking a train.
It isn't.
its not hard to search for an actual hard problem or idk maybe it was hard at the time when it was written due to the lack of internet.
@@Chubbywubbysandwich That's the thing: this movie was made before the internet, streaming services, smartphones and social media. It was never meant to be scrutinized like this.
The actual problem on the board was missing the point: it could have been completely invisible for all I care. It's irrelevant to the point of the story.
@@FrostByte112 Yes, it should have been invisible. That would have made it much better.
@@FrostByte112The internet existed in 1997. 😂 It would have been easy to search for a math problem or just get in touch with a university. Authors and screenwriters are just lazy sometimes. I don't think this was true here though, very few of the audience members saw this as an easy problem, and the few who did probably felt very clever. At least one of them felt so clever they made an entire video about it.
well okay but it's nice when the universe a story is set in is somewhat plausible or works. Queen's Gambit is good because the chess is fucking legit. John Wick is good because Keanu's martial arts is really fucking good. The Matrix is good because Keanu's kung fu is cool.
So if Good Will Hunting is basically bullshit behind the scenes well that's just not ideal.
I think it is kind of a respect problem for me. You don't just get into a field and solve every problem there is. There is nothing truly easy under the sun. It takes time and effort to become expert at anything even if you are a genius, it is the work of many people before us. You should respect their contributions, you are standing on the shoulders of giants. It is the collective wisdom of human. I find it quite off putting. It is as if they are only using math as a tool 11:25 for displaying some non realistic genus without respecting the subject itself.
this ^^
I'm not that good in math, so I didn't notice this in this particular movie. But you've just perfectly described the feeling I get when this happens in a field that I do know something about.
He has this big "badass" moment at the beginning of the movie where he's at a bar and mocks some guys for not reading advanced philosophy or whatever lol it just comes across as pretentious and stupid.
@Cabesandia tbf if I remember right the dude started it with Ben Affleck's character and Will walks in and knocks it out of the park. Either way it is pretentious, they're intellectuals. That's the worse thing about intellectuals: they engross themselves into the knowledge they study to equate it to some form importance. It's obnoxious, just because say I studied physics sure I should probably think it's important to at least me. But that doesn't mean I should look down on people for not studying it or even knowing what I know. It's insanely egomaniacal like what Will does when he comes across his therapist to start stroking himself off with his knowledge to verbally assault the man. To think you're so high and mighty for what you study but the efforts of others who studied don't also make them intelligent? It's just dumb and a real shame that people like this really exist.
100%. I have a high IQ but due to my upbringing and violent father, I got no support, zero help with homework etc. My grades were never good...
I got a bride understanding of many things but once I hit algebra and especially calulus, I had to study like everyone else. If I don't put in the work, I'm not smarter than anyone. Having a high IQ just helps to understand some things more quickly, making wierd connections and relations about things.
3:37 Skylar too? Dude, the scene where Will explodes and turn it into an argument between him and her and she realizing what he went through always pulls a heart string. Her switch to that kind of teary empathy is just a cherry on a cake. Totally a memorial moment of the movie.
Philosophy major here with an undergraduate degree. I have the SAME relationship with Abel Ferrara’s 1995 “The Addiction”. It’s a great movie, unless you studied collegiate philosophy. It centers around PhD philosophy students. Yet during the entire film, their theses are all based around second year basic Continental philosophy undergraduate courses. A professor tells the PhD students to read a Sartre essay that I dissected in 200 level courses. Philosophy doctorate theses are HIGHLY specialized and specific. 0.001%, I would wager, would to be write a paper about the themes in “Being And Nothingness”. It would be a hackneyed thesis that would never get approved for investigation. When I saw the movie, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Cops, doctors, journalists, etc must cackle at soooo many films. I was too dense to realize that until it directly affected me. Great video.
There's a scene in the movie 21 where Kevin Spacey teaches a math class, and it's so clearly written by a humanities major. Every little detail is a humanities class with math terms slapped on top. The class focuses on the biographies of famous mathematicians rather than problem solving. And even little things are wrong, like Spacey asking students to turn in their "papers" instead of their assignments or problem sets.
FWIW, I like the idea of math students having to write papers from time to time. That's how the work is done at the highest levels, after all. But, yes, it's far more standard to have problem sets.
You’re like the pop culture 3blue1brown I love it
Thank you! 3b1b production quality is crazy, but I hope I can get close someday.
@@Phanimations honestly thought this was a 3b1b video until i saw the channel name 😭😭
Wut
@@w花b3blue1brown is a channel that explain maths with really good editing
In an alternate universe half of the video's comments are: the singular of matrices is matricee.
Well done!
9:16 “verify this is correct” bold of you to assume I retained a single piece of information after you finished saying it
The adjacency matrix describes the number of links from each node to its neighbors, aka the number of neighbors. So if you apply the matrix to a vector where the index of the row is the node number, then you get the number of its neighbors. So if you apply the matrix twice, you will get the number of neighbors of the neighbors, (aka you did a 2 step walk). If you apply it a 3rd time, you get the neighbors of those neighbors (aka 3 step walk). Applying the matrix 3 times is equivalent to multiplying it by itself twice (aka matrix to the cube), and it gives the number of 3 step walks.
@@lolilollolilol7773can you tell me how there’re three 3-step walks from 1 to 4? I can’t wrap my head around this
@@vosk143 same, i don't get it if youre not able to walk back
"It's simple, lemme break it down" *proceeds to explain the most complicated math problem I've ever heard*
He actually is just not explaining it very well. Those kind of problems could be taught around 10th grade, because it is more about "follow this recipe" than having to proof stuff.
1:45 It is also worth to note that Salieri promoted Mozart's music while he was alive, and he also taught his son.
it specifically doesnt show the equations in great detail or try and explain them to you because you arent meant to see them or try to solve them, the point of them is to look complex so that you see will as super smart, its just a placeholder for any real or fictional math problem so complicated that you cant comprehend it. this cant be a fault on the movie, i mean if they just never showed any of the math on screen at any point, would you be happier then? they are placeholders, they look complicated from a distance and in a blur to the viewer
Saying “vertice” instead of vertex is killing me
I was wondering if it's an American thing
@@kabivose nope. American here, and this is also wrong on this continent.
@@kabivose I’m American….i think we say vertex lol
Quoting Dr Nick Nicholas, PhD in Linguistics from Melbourne University...
What is the plural form of the word "vertex"? Why is it irregular?
"Vertices."
Why? Because the word is straight of out Latin, and Latin has a lot of declensions that look weird from the perspective of English.
In particular, the plural vertices suggests that the singular should be vertix, just like the singular of matrices is matrix. There are a lot of -ices plurals corresponding to -ex singulars in Latin thoough, and historical linguists mumble something about analogy and/or vowel reduction. Sihler's New Comparative Grammar p. 67 is my source for the mumblings.
Why use the Latin vertices rather than a regular vertexes? Because (a) vertex is a learnèd, rare word; (b) vertex is a word straight out of Latin, that never really was assimilated into English; (c) even common Latin words following the -ex -ices pattern don't readily get regularised into English, precisely because -ex is so redolent of Latin.
We say indexes now, but we still say indices too; it's the more common meaning of index, as what's in the back of a book, that gets the English indexes plural.
The creator really missed an opportunity to say "matrice" here
I may not be remembering everything about the movie correctly but perhaps the most realistic part is that nobody in the public school system seemed to have previously identified Will’s abilities.
lol. True.
looks at the work of a Fields medalist and says it's child's play -> doesn't really solve anything -> leaves with no further elaboration
Seems like good will hunting and “whiplash” have the exact same ratio of good:bad. Whiplash similarly has some of the best acting, emotion, and writing I’ve ever seen. But, similar to GWH, it takes extreme liberty with the culture surrounding jazz music. Great video!
This is the equivalent of watching an action film if you know a lot about weapon systems. Thank you, this was quite enjoyable.
Most people mess up going from one "vertex" to multiple "vertices". Never heard them referred to singularly as a "vertice"
Gus van Sant has gone on record saying that the math in the film is just made to look complicated for non mathematicians, so your correct that none of this makes sense 😭😭
Also Uma Thurman's thumbs aren't really that enormous.
@@____uncompetative agreed
I hate that a production team for a full-blown Hollywood movie doesn't come even close to the respect that Futurama writers have for their audience in a single science/math gag.
@@roeltz this is true 😭😭
The irony of the argument at 11:55. He somehow thought that there was one path to his position... The pure irony of giving them that math problem.
PLEASE, this movie has a MacGuffin, and it has almost nothing to do with the actual math problem. It could have been not shown, and been just as important. It is a fantastic movie.
it's not, but if you have a college level math level, it's offputting.
the MacGuffin was the apple...
@@lolilollolilol7773 so you're a Mac user, huh?
To bring a counterpoint : He is not a Gary Stew. A Mary Sue or a Gary stew character, is one that never really fails, is good at everything, everyone around them just instantly love/like them. Will Hunting might have out of this world intelect, but he has a tragic past that makes him a pretty shit person with a whole world of doubts and fear and trust issues. And with Robin, learns to love himself and be a better person. He grows has a character through out the film which a Mary/Gary character usually don't grow since they are perfect from the get go.
I was also bothered by this characterization. A Mary Sue is a character with no character flaws. Will is practically a walking character flaw.
"I have to see about a girl" was the most satisfying and to the point character development I can remember in a long time.
Right. He's a Gary Stew as long as it's mathematics, but he's too stunted even to apply himself to make the most out of that.
Perfect point
Aw come on, they usually have one mind-numbing flaw, generally mild clumsiness recently. J/k
This movie was written from the perspective of someone who was not a genius at math. Matt Damon can't make up genius level math problems, because he's not a genius level mathematician. I don't think there was ever much thought given to the perspective of someone who actually understands the math problem. It's never meant to be taken seriously as a real math problem.
They had an enormous budget and also hired mathematicians as consultants, then ignored their suggestions.
Literally unwatchable /s 🙃
@@stephenpreston1410 proving OP's point, its not important. Sure, it's strange watching this movie while having a similar problem as homework in uni, with 2 weeks to solve. The average viewer looks at the equation the same way the characters in the movie do. Its just this none important aspect, for the majority , which was irrelevant to it becoming a classic. ( Unfortunately im not sure of good parallels in other fields to draw comparisons but I'll try: ) it's as if your a math focused person looking at protein folding, the whole concept is just too foreign to you that even the most basic problems are hard; the linguistics around the problem are too advanced for the average person to comprehend and start to solve. Even just using the word 'graph' and showing ' a different one' completely usurps the average views understanding of graphs.
if they wanted to make a story about a math genius who was outside the system and retired from math without giving his full potential they should made a movie about grigori perelman
That's the thing, that's not the story they wanted to tell. The math is set dressing for the story. He could have just as easily been a genius at chemistry, physics, music, etc. and the movie would be largely the same. The math problems in this movie are actually macguffins to get the plot rolling moreso than an important element of the story itself.
Perlman's mom, I believe, was a university math professor and she quit her job to foster his talent. He grew up in an ideal environment for math and his success is great but not altogether unexpected. Will Hunting grew up in abusive foster families who presumably were not encouraging him to do 4-6 hours of math a day as a young kid. His mathematical ability is of course simply magic. (I still enjoyed the movie.) Everyone who's outstanding at math does lots and lots of math and has talent for it.
Gabriel that isn't the topic of the story.
@@j.a.8992 i see the ambiguity of my comment i didnt mean outside the system like if the guy wasnt in math but when he solve the problem it took like 3 years of verification for the community to know what perelman have proven, even tough his knowledge wasnt unexpected that sounds kinda magical to me, damm just thinking a bit i can think of a lot of mathematicians that would make good movies mr le blank turing tartaglia come to mind
"do you like apples?" "Oh lord I do like apples, wow this sucks, I can't tell him no because he'll see right through that, because boy do I sure like apples" *clears throat* "No, I don't like apples"
"Oh? Really? Uhhmm... Do you like bananas? Because I got her number, isn't that bananas?"
🤣
Louis ck
"Do you like apples?!"
"Yeah"
"Cool, there's a basket of like 30 of them in the lounge."
They also take a lot of creative liberties with the Ramanujan Biography during the scene in the bar between Shean (Robin Williams) and Lambo (Stellan Skarsgard) although to be fair I've known a lot of people, even mathematicians who actually believe Ramanujan basically someday found a math book and got all his knoledge magically from that simple book
I like how the main point about the math is basically: _it can’t be that hard if I can do it._ 😂
As an expert chess player, i can relate to the nerd rage exhibited here. There was/is a common trope in nearly every sitcom where 2 players play chess and right when one of them starts bragging about their superior ability, the other replies "checkmate". Bad enough any novice player would brag while not being able to see they lose in literally 1 move, the timing is lazily plot driven. Thats not the worst part for nerd rage however. The worst part is the pieces are usually not even set up legally let alone could a real game or checkmate be possible! Im starting to hypothesize that chess wasnt the point of the show, but cant be certain.
Stay away from Code Geass that shit will drive you insane.
Well, the 'mate in 1 move' part could still be explained in terms of them actually being novice players who think way too highly of themselves (of course this explanation becomes harder to sell when they've boasted in the scene before they were a club champion three times or some such thing).
The illegal position thing bothers me too, even when I know it isn't really relevant to the story and most viewers won't even notice it.
@RH-ro3sg my favorite is when the checkmated in 1 player after bragging also gives a speech about their unstoppable opening strategy name and all
The Simpsons did a love letter episode to Chess and even brought Magnus Carlson on as a guest star. I think you'd REALLY like the accuracy of the episode. Just a taste, Homer's journey starts with him losing in a very specific way, the Fool's Mate; losing in the shortest amount of moves that can only happen if you and your opponent play in a specific way.
What is your favorite opening?
i didn't even realize the video ended, i was expecting another 15 min minimum. Great job!
Doesn't bother me in the least. If they solved Fermat's Last Theorem in the script before Wiles gave his lecture, that would be impressive. But I don't expect them to subject us lay audience to real difficult math problems that we wouldn't understand anyway, or to solve an unsolved math problem on screen before the math community knew about it.
They gave us the impression Will was a genius, and used theatrical mumbo-jumbo to make it believable.
As far as Will not putting any effort into this, I don't that. I always assumed he was doing this behind the scenes, late nights when he wasn't hanging with his buddies.
But the nice thing about Fermat's Last Theorem is that it's actually quite easy to understand. (The theprem, not the proof)
But they wanted problems that sounded complicated, so matrices ans Advanced Fourrier Systems it was 😉
I love what you wanted to do with this video, genuinely. We need more essays about mathematics on this platform. It is because I respect it so much that I feel compelled to outline my criticisms, so I hope you will receive them in that spirit.
Firstly-and I know it's a small thing-you really should say 'vertex' instead of 'verticy'. It's not only a pet peeve of many people (myself included), but getting terminology like that wrong undermines the viewer's perception of your authority on the subject. It's ironic, too, since pedantic details are precisely what the essay seeks to address!
Secondly, the degree of mathematical background you assume is inconsistent. You spent a decent chunk of the video explaining what a matrix is, how we enumerate cells, etc., suggesting that you don't expect the viewer to have any familiarity with matrices. But at around 8:30, you refer to matrix multiplication with no accompanying explanation. I understand why you did this; it would take a long time to explain how matrix multiplication works and why it works that way, disrupting the flow of the essay for very little payoff (the rigour of exercise 2's solution is not central to your analysis of the movie). Indeed, I think you were right not to include it. But in that case, you ought to assume that your viewer is familiar with basic matrix manipulation, thereby making redundant the part of the video in which you introduce matrices.
Thirdly, I don't think the comparison to Amadeus is apt. Amadeus embellishes and invents historical details for creative and storytelling purposes, whereas the mathematical shortcomings of Good Will Hunting serve no narrative purpose. As such, a historian could likely dismiss the historical inaccuracies in Amadeus on the basis that the film is fictional, while no comparable excuse exists for Good Will Hunting. The problem on the board could have easily been substituted for, say, the twin prime conjecture, and the plot of the film would have been entirely unaffected.
Fourthly, the final section of your video is not only superfluous, but actively counterproductive. Sure, Good Will Hunting is a film about trust and all that good stuff, but how does this relate to your main thesis (mathematical inaccuracies in the film and why they matter). Moreover, ending your essay by emphasising that the film is not actually about mathematics per se, you unintentionally lead the viewer to misunderstand the point of the video. It is no surprise that many people missed the point of the video, evidenced by the several comments along the lines of, "Well, that's not what the film was about, so who cares?" Mathematicians do!
Perhaps this could have been avoided had you stated more explicitly why the mathematical inaccuracies in the film are an actual problem that matters, which is my final criticism. Sure, most people are not mathematicians and they won't care about this, but those who know some mathematics will surely notice the things you pointed out and will have their suspension of disbelief ruined by it. What's more, as I argued in the previous paragraph, this problem is entirely avoidable because, unlike in Amadeus, the mathematical substance is irrelevant to the plot.
I agree with all of your points. I completely admit that this video was rushed. I committed to making 1 video per week until the fall semester started, and though I recognized these flaws while editing, I felt my complaints with the movie were reasonably voiced. And I didn't want to re-record, script, and edit everything.
I am fortunate that my videos have seemed to take off, and at this point I think I have to recognize that I have a much larger audience than I originally thought I would. For the future I will be more careful to drive home the point that I am really trying to convey. For what it's worth, I am satisfied with the video, even with it's flaws. And I welcome all discourse and criticism (like yours) about it
@@PhanimationsNice, I look forward to your future videos and I wish you success with them!
Richard Feynman was once asked if another Michael Faraday type might come along someday to help solve our physics problems. Feynman said no, because Faraday was not conversant in the math needed to do the work (Faraday barely knew algebra). I see the same with GWH. I idea that a janitor might be a genius is okay, but without the math background he'd be useless. Ramanujan was also an underemployed genius, but he knew his stuff and had worked on it alone for years before being discovered.
This is very good quality journalism/voice over/content creation. Thank you :)
There are 4 ways to go 4→2→3→2, then add the remaining three:
4→2→4→2
4→2→1→2
4→1→4→2
and you have 7.
bravo!
There's 4 iterations of 4->2->3->2
1. top line from 2 to 3 and then back through top line
2. top line from 2 to 3 and then back through bottom line
3. bottom line from 2 to 3 and then back through top line
4. bottom line from 2 to 3 and then back through bottom line
Then there's 4242, 4212 and 4142 as you mentioned
I want to thank you for this! I recently added a math major to my computer science major, but have found myself frustrated because I haven’t enjoyed math as much. Thanks to your videos, I have started following along when you do the math, which has forced me to look deeper and think further about math! This has been a lot of fun!!! Thank you so much!
PhD mathematician/ professor here: 1. Yes, finding the adjacency matrix of a graph is trivial. 2. No, the singular of 'vertices' is 'vertex' - not the non-word neologism of 'verticy'. 3. Correct - it's graph theory... not the word salad with "advanced Fourier..." whatever nonsense. 4. Getting the numbers of three-step walks is taking the cube of the original adjacency matrix.
You're not a mathematician, you say? I can't say I'm surprised, but I do give you credit for the your observations about the absurdity of a Fields Medalist going ga-ga over a student who really did not solve something that hard... (And I would have enjoyed seeing you set up the generating functions!)
I got a better linear algebra lesson here than any lecture I ever had in the class.
My brother in Christ, you really want a dedicated filmmaker to actually solve one of the big math problems for the sake of authenticity. I respect that.
;)
they did it in futurerama all the time
2:42 Like JFK. Great movie but factually might as well be about dragons and elves, as it’s total fantasy.
People like Will exist in abundance in the math field, that is probably why they chose math as the event catalyst, but he is an archetype to debate another thing. If you like the main theme I would also recommend the brazilian book "O Alienista" by Machado de Assis.
99% of the people in the math field have innate ability and put a lot of work on top of it. There have been a few cases where the levels obtained were truly mysterious, like Evariste Galois and Ramanujan. Both however were using idiosyncratic language to express their findings. Will Hunting even knows the syntax of math without being educated.
My piano teacher starts fuming when talking about how dirty salieri was done 😂
It doesn't matter how hard the actual math problem was because most people don't know advanced math so the actual point was still made. For the audience it's just supposed to look like a complex math problem that this kid figures out.
The most hilarious thing about Amadeus in my opinion, is that Mozart died flat broke, poorer than he would have been if he'd never touched an instrument.
Salieri on the other hand was filthy rich and influential.
Also, AFAIK, they got along fine. It's just a plot device.
I vaguely remember hearing an interview with someone who was responsible for writing the stuff on the board for this movie. I think they were just asked to put some mathy stuff on the board and I bet they did graph theory.
Re: Fourier transform, presumably you could prove that a given representation is equal to the Fourier transform of a certain expression.
Hm, perhaps? I'm not exactly sure about how one would end up doing that, but I'm sure they didn't put too much thought into it
I think the biggest thing GWH is missing is "love for the field". People who devote their life to a discipline love it, they love music, they love math, they love art, the business, the farm, etc. etc. WH does not. For a realistic loner genius, who is willing to go into poverty or whatever tremendous sacrifices for art, philosophy, math, etc. -- and I know many, either personally or throughout history -- this love is immediately apparent and never diminishes. Their antagonism with others is centered entirely around love -- how *others have betrayed or diminished the field that they love*.
In other words, in no world is there ever a person like the main character, who has committed that much time to a field and demonstrates no love for it. And this is why I think the movie is downright unwatchable -- because Hollywood, California, USA is so myopic, so unaware, so narcissistic, so limited in their worldview that they can conceive of love only between man and woman or human and other human but not love of a man for a project (a work, a farm, a field) that is, without a doubt, far, far stronger.
100% spot on. Rogue geniuses can be angry but it's an anger directed at people and the field not being "all-in" enough on new ideas or able to see. It would be funny to get Hollywood to write a screenplay for a movie where the best actor ever hates acting, movies, and directors, but everyone realizes they are the best actor ever. Obviously that doesn't make sense, but they will write stories.like that for other fields.
I could never watch GWH from beginning to end, but I thought "A Beautiful Mind" was a great movie. I'm sure the latter was very dramatized, but at least the singular-obsession fits correctly.
@@Sn0wZer0 Yeah I think a beautiful mind was decent. Man's relationship to an inhuman sublime, eg math, tends to transform a person, into not just being a pretentious jerk, the idea being that no matter how big you are relative to other men, you still pale in comparison to the object of study. Beautiful mind deals with insanity, but wish it situated it more in the context of something like transhuman transformation before the sublime. I'm not sure if this counts, but it would be interesting to see a movie about Kurt Godel, who was a famous mathematician that died from self-starvation because he would only eat meals that his wife prepared.
He also messed up the second problem. If memory serves, Will left out two of the ten possible tree structures, and the Prof didn't notice ...
he was mid doing it and got caught (and the professor thought he was vandalizing it), discovered he was solving it and that means he was the person who solved the first one.
The genius bit is where the immaturity of the screenwriters comes through the most
The screenwriters were geniuses though
The math is just a MacGuffin; it’s there to get the plot rolling. They used mathematics because most of us have no idea of advanced math-that problem looks extremely difficult. But they could have put physics or Ancient Greek on the board: same effect. Will is wicked smaht and is wasting his gifts.
True. But why not get it right too? Any mathematician could have told them to write down the Goldbach Conjecture on the chalkboard, which is super easy to state yet unsolved, and put "Goldbach Conjecture" in Skarsgard's lines. Every mathematician would have chuckled instead of facepalmed. And for the rest of the audience it would have made no difference.
@@knotwilg3596In the end of it why get it right? If just one proponent of this entire debacle is solved, there would be no need to converse about it. It’s honestly more genius to leave an easier problem on the board that even the 1% will understand vs having 0% understand and no be left as a critic. The 1% won’t be able to complain about the impressive math beholden, while the 99% is still left amazed by the same exact work. What do you gain from this?
I think the point was that the math isn't advanced at all - probably within the reach of high school students in many countries. There is another problem in the movie about finding all homeomorphically irreducible acyclic graphs of 10 nodes. Also pretty straightforward. If "1+1" is difficulty level "0" and proving Fermat's Last Theorem "100", the difficulty level of the problems in the movie are probably still "0".
I love this series of covering shows and movies with math in it. Keep at it! Good job.
Lots of movies that delve into difficult topics don't get actual experts to help them with the details. But then again, most of the people who watch these movies have no knowledge of the specialized field, so it barely matters. I'm really impressed with movies that do get the details right when I'm in a position to understand them. Its the difference between basic entertainment and really great art.
Good Will Hunting is my favorite movie of all time. However, this is a fair criticism and one I've seen different variations of over the past two decades or so.
Good video, and subbed. 👍
I suggest not becoming a practicing engineer based on how that field is presented in Star Trek.
When you explained that you really "just wanted to talk about this movie" 11:50 I was like this is a RUclipsr for me, and hit the subscribe button = )
Admittedly, the math isn't the point in the movie, but then why not simply get that right too? It would have pleased the mathematicians among us (oh yeah, they got that right!) while making no difference for the 99% others.
As the OP points out, the flaky math isn't the actual problem: it's the idea that you can be effortlessly great at something, perhaps anything. This is a perversion of the American Dream, which promises anyone can make it, provided hard work (and some talent). It discourages youngsters to make an effort, rather wait until some sponsor finally sees their genius.
Isn't the singular of vertices 'vertex'?
I like watching therapists' reactions to this movie. They are very illuminating.
That is actually a more relevant point.
Also, the reactions of those who have suffered childhood abuse. Some people felt it spoke to them but others were astounded (and angered) by how superficial and unrealistic they felt it was (in terms of the recovery process).
@@howard5992 the recovery seems fast and superficial, but why does wills healing process need to end with that single scene in the movie? why cant he continue to heal for the rest of his life as we all do with our trauma, and most of all, how self centered do you actually have to be to claim other peoples trauma and healing need to look exactly like yours for it to be legitimate?.
Im so glad that I walked the graph of youtube videos to end up at this channel. Great content!
In Glod Will Hunting, they clearly just put something that is mathematical and real that most people won't understand. It's a movie about a genius that doesn't work if the audience has a background in Math, amd and a movie about therapy that won't work if the audience has a background in therapy.
Also, how does Will Hunting even understand the question or notation? It's like being a genius makes you automatically understand foreign languages after hearing a single sentence. "But he reads all kinds of books on his spare time". If he were that guy he wouldn't have the friends that he does. He would be seen as a nerd or bookworm to them.
I know that there are levels of genius where smart people make complex things seem effortless, but generally the smartest people still push themselves super hard. I am practically sick of the genius who doesn't try at anything in life at all. If that were the case Will Hunting would deserve to be exactly where he was in life.
He doesn't tell his friends he reads. He does work hard, he understands the notation because he's read a lot of advanced math books, speed reading them apparently with a photographic memory. He taught himself, realistic? I doubt it, but possible in theory. Satisfied?
@@Mnil52 OK, plausible. I guess I have a problem with the way that the sort of person who enjoys speed reading theoretical physics isn't the kind of person who blends in with people with a lukewarm IQ.
@@shawandrew Sure, It doesn't sit right because the problem is there probably is no one like him in the world. Because the brain requires a lot in early childhood to develop, prenatal nutrition, good genetics, not living in places with lead water pipes, constant interaction as a baby etc etc so it's not like a lot of future Einsteins are living in the slums of Dehli reading quantum mechanics papers waiting to be discovered.
I’ve always held the opinion that Will’s character would be far more interesting if he was an artist. Great video!
This math problem is like the "not my tempo" scene. It's not about the tempo, the music doesn't matter. It's just a tool to give away the message
The math problem is a "McGuffin" commonly used in movies and stories in general to advance the plot. It really doesn't matter if the math problem makes sense. Pulp Fiction had a glowing briefcase, the assult scene in Thelma and Louise, the bank robbery in Psycho. Not important to the journey. Alfred Hitchcock used it many times. As a matter of fact it is referenced in High Anxiety and Deadpool /Wolverine. Once you recognize it, its hard to miss. Enjoy.
I enjoyed your going through the math problem. I don't really have a problem with the problem per se. I believe that the mathematician Danny Kleitman was asked to provide a real mathematics problem for the movie (which he dutifully did, and in exchange, was made an extra in the film, with about one second of screen time, walking by the window in the Minnie Driver scene), but they didn't give him the proper context, so he didn't know what level of difficulty of problem to supply them with. Anyway, since the average American's mathematical knowledge is so low, it doesn't really matter what problem is put on the blackboard, since they won't understand it.
A more serious criticism, which you point out, is that even though there are mathematical prodigies out there who can solve some very difficult problems with lightning speed, there are definitely lots of problems which nobody can solve effortlessly. The director could have fixed this flaw without disturbing the main point of the movie, by still portraying Will as a prodigy, but a prodigy who refuses to apply himself to any problem that he can't solve instantly, because it bores him. That would be realistic and would also plausibly evoke frustration and jealousy in a top mathematician. Sadly, again I think the problem is that the director knew that the American public is so ignorant of mathematics that there was little point in trying to get this kind of detail right.
This is an excellent point. It would have been so much more compelling to both academics and non-academics alike to see a character that shows true genius but won't apply it to the really hard problems. The attitude extends not just to academia but to life in general so it fits with the rest of the movie. Great idea.
I know I should have expected this clicking on a video discussing the math in this movie, but I feel like Will being a prodigy isn’t really that important? I think him being perfect at any academic thing he tries is more to show that his lack of “success” in life doesn’t stem from him being incapable, allowing the movie to focus more on the emotional and social barriers he struggles with.
Never thought I would watch an analytical video about this and be taught liner algebra again, amazing
Absolutely ruined by calling a single vertex a vertice and a single matrix a matrix. Can you re-record and say matrice instead?
Grow up. 😂
It's hard because no matter how smart you are, if you have no support, no one caring for you, no help, it makes it harder and harder to continue, and actually achieve something.
I believe that's where creating inspiration matters more. If you're passionate, you'll enjoy it, and learn it. If you don't, you don't. One year I was inspired by math, another 4-5 years by biology then chemistry and circles back around into physics and then math again, then repeats. I've been stuck in this loop for 14 years.
while i have not studied graph theory, i have studied matrices and determinants in high school, after you explained the pathways as elements of matrix, it became too easy for MIT lol
Good Will Hunting is cool and all, but thanks for recommending Amadeus. One of my new favorites. 🙏
Turns out the movie isn’t made for huge nerds
😂 gg
Do a video on Futurama and math maybe?
Dude, did you not see the 2 year old mathematician on America's Got Talent 3 months ago? His father asks the judges for two numbers. The dad is given 7 and 9. The dad writes 7x9 on the white board. The kid looks at it and writes 63 on the board.
The judges and the audience of thousands sit there in absolute silence and anticipation until... about 5 seconds go by... and the dad has to say "yes" to his son. Only then, do the judges and crowd exclaim with awe and wonder and cheers of disbelief that this 2 year old got the right answer. No adult in the room of thousands knew whether the kid had gotten 7*9 right until someone said confirmed it. Simon Cowell even said after the kid did a couple more problems, that he wished they'd all had calculators.
Moral of the story: Will Hunting is a genius in the eyes of the 99%.
I honestly hope that this isn't true. A child, admittedly a small child, performs a simple multiplication and everyone wets themselves. FFS, 🙄
@@indigohammer5732 my criticism isn't that the kid did the calculation. It's that the judges and the entire crowd didn't know the correct answer to 7*9.
Any movie that sets itself in a world of experts on any topic has this struggle. A more recent one was "Whiplash," which (as infamously put by Adam Neely) has far more in common with sports than it does jazz education. People still defend it for its performances and tension, but I can't get past the exaggerated emphasis on competition and ladder climbing, when musical collaboration is not that at all. And also the main character's love for Buddy Rich, which is rich (pun intended) given that Rich was not as respected among his fellow musicians as he would have you believe.
Yeah - I have a Ph.D. with a major in chemistry - certainly wouldn't have taken a whole night to decipher the nmr spectrum that they showed either, but i don't feel the need to make a youtube video about it. Don't have time to make a video every time that a movie gets the maths or science wrong, but power to you dude for the education. Mass spectrometer that spits out molecular structure for Sean Connery would have sure save me a heap of time :D
And on the subject of math, Nikola Tesla could solve second derivative multivariate calculus equations in his head, without having to write anything down. And his math teachers accused him of cheating on his exams. As someone who barely passed freshman calculus, this kind of blew my mind.
BABE WAKE UP PHANIMATIONS DROPPED
To be fair, the real-life story the intro is based on is similarly absurd: George Dantzig sees some previously unproven theorems on the blackboard, thinks they are homework, then solves them. His teacher was so impressed that he told Dantzig he could stick them in a binder and hand them in as his phd thesis.
To paraphrase Ramsey Bolton ‘of you think good will hunting is about mathematics, you haven’t been paying attention’
He doesn´t say that it is about math, just that they could have made a better job with the math part of it. I love the movie, but there are a lot of problems with Will´s character.
Ever heard of John Von Neuman? He was a mathematician born in the early 1900s. It is interesing that you would mention Will's intellect being otherworldly, Von Neumann's mind was apparently so otherworldly, that the noble prize winning physicicists and mathematicians at the time referred to him as "The martian". He could do mental math in his head faster than some early computers and memorize entire books verbatim retaining the information for years.
He invented the field of game theory, the concept of mutually assured destruction, and then used his chemistry expertise to help invent the icbm. He also was the one to come up with the compression design that ultimateley enabled the creation of the plutonium atom bomb. It took him three days to do so. Finally, he came up with the idea of a self replicating machine that contains it own blueprint, the Von Neumann Probe, before DNA was discovered and before it was understood that cells are exactly that type of machine.
Lastly you mentioned Will inventing AGI, Von Numann basically invented the architecture behind the modern computer and the idea of artificial intelligence through numerical simulation. Perhaps if he was not limited by the technology of his time, creating AGI is exactly what he would have done.
The most shocking thing about him for me was when I visited his wikipedia page. The "known for" section was long enough that it took me several seconds to reach the bottom and only then did I notice the "see more" button that more than doubled its length. They have since split it into multiple separeate pages. I havent even mentioned the time he rescued the entire field of mathematics from Russell's paradox or his contributions to quantum mechanincs.
Von Neummann was certainly one of the greatest mathematicians of the 20th century, and he had a far broader reach than many of his math colleagues. His most influential work was in the foundation of computer science. But he wasn't leaps about bounds ahead of his contemporaries.
@@rickdesper obvious nonsense if you ever listended to some of this contemporaries. you could've easily entered wikiquote and have it right there: teller, blackwell, ulam... you might ask yourself why you're so full of yourself that you'd rather phantasize about bullshit instead of just looking things up.
@@rickdesper "I have known a great many intelligent people in my life. I knew Max Planck, Max von Laue, and Wemer Heisenberg. Paul Dirac was my brother-in-Iaw; Leo Szilard and Edward Teller have been among my closest friends; and Albert Einstein was a good friend, too. And I have known many of the brightest younger scientists. But none of them had a mind as quick and acute as Jancsi von Neumann. I have often remarked this in the presence of those men, and no one ever disputed me."
-Eugene Wigner, Nobel Prize winning theoretical physicist
I had a friend in elementary school as smart as Will Hunting. He explained wormholes to me in 2nd grade. We used to play a verbal roleplaying game where we'd put each other in difficult situations and the other would have to explain how they'd survive. When I started him in space above a planet without oxygen and he still survived, I gave up. Did you know about angles for slow atmospheric breaking or that you can extract oxygen from rocks in elementary school? It wouldn't have worked in reality, but that isn't the point. He was reading college physics books in elementary school. In 3rd grade, when we were reading aloud in a circle, the teacher had to tell him to slow down. Nobody else could listen as fast as he could read. He, I, and another friend wanted to make our own version of a King's Quest style game in 5th grade (it was 1989). He did the programming in hypercard. When we had typing class on our old computers that didn't even have hard drives, he entered the operating system and started writing a Q Basic program.
Oh, and he was excellent at karate. Very dorky, but strong as an ox.
He burned out a little in high school (went to a different high school than I did, but I heard about him occasionally) and didn't go to as good a college as you'd expect. He also quit karate 1 step shy of his black belt. But he turned it around and is now a successful neuroscientist.
Unless you can actually name him, you are probably lying.
@@EdinoRemerido He's not famous, just successful. I'm not going to put his name out there for people to Google. First name is David. Last name is very distinctive and easy to Google. Starts with a Y. That's all I'll say.
@@Sam_on_RUclips There a guy named David Yonathan, but he doesnt fit your descriptions, so stop spreading missinformation for claut
@@EdinoRemerido I don't know who that is. It's not who I'm talking about. The person I'm talking about is not famous, just very very very smart. And posting a RUclips comment is not a way to get clout. If I wanted clout I'd talk about impressive things about myself rather than the fact that I happened to have known a super smart guy as a kid that I haven't seen in over 30 years. That's not impressive.
@@Sam_on_RUclips so for all we know, it could be a dream you missremember as a memory from 10+ years ago.
Vertex. The singular form of vertices is vertex, not vertice.
There are apparently some people who haven't watched the full movie. The main character janitor guy didn't have formal educarion, but he read every book that the college library had, so he was very math literae
Yeah this is true. I don't really have an issue with the fact that he solved the problem on the board. Moreso with the fact that he's just better than Lambeau at math by a mile, calling his work a joke. I don't care how smart you are, the work of a Fields Medalist isn't going to be a "joke" to you
Edit: At least in a difficulty sense
It takes more than book reading to become so good at math that you can be dismissive of basically everybody else on the planet. It really does help enormously to interact with other mathematicians.
@@rickdesper I know about that, I'm just trying to explain to the people that are using the argument that a janitor would know nothing about math that he actually had done a lot of research.
@@Phanimations Yeah, what amazes me about the movie (even though I understand that Will wants to hang out with his buddies) is that he hasn´t been able to find any other intellectual friend and talks about how he have conversations with dead philosophers. In that sense I think a beatiful mind is a better depiption of a math genious.
@@jankogo High IQs are statistically rare. Considering that many smart people prefer to stay home and read, it's actually not hard to understand at all.
Amadeus mentioned = immediate sub
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
5:45 the detail of transposing the music +1 while talking about transposing is quite clever!
I'm so glad you noticed that!
@@Phanimations 🤝
Just watched this movie yesterday, perfect timing with this post, I feel like good will hunting is more about psychology than it is about math.
how did you learn to do this without learning the word 'vertex', though?
I'm curious how you know that the singular of 'matrices' is 'matrix', but not that the singular of 'vertices' is 'vertex'.
'vertex' is not even a rare word. it's one of the basic parts of a parabola, for instance. so... what the hell happened to you that you never learned this word?
hehe might've done that one for engagement :3
I''m sure in an interview the director or Matt and Ben said that they chose math problems that looked impressive and visual (with diagrams, matrices etc.) rather than ones that were exceedingly technical or difficult. It's just a case of style over substance where 90% of the audience can't tell the difference.
Then at least call it Graph theory instead of fronteronamajig system?
Will Hunting was based on someone in real life. He was based on William Sidis, the “smartest” person ever who had accomplished many feats. However, just like Will Hunting, William Sidis had a rebellious lifestyle and in the end, he rejected academia and went completely underground and presumably lived a normal life.
And unlike Will Hunting, didn't he fail to make any major contributions?
There is a pretty big difference between changing historical facts and having one random math problem on a board not being as hard as they say it is in the movie. Yes it would be better if it was an actual hard equation for extra realism, but from the movie and story perspective it just needs to "look like math" for the shot where we se the blackboard and for us to know that it is hard and Will solves it. I really can't see how that is the equivalent of changing historical facts