All good points. Especially about singing the praises of one's style without having any knowledge whatsoever of other styles and methods of training. One school I trained at asked me if I had ever trained in any martial art. I had boxed and told them so. They said, "Boxing is not a martial art and a boxer has no chance against a martial artist." I also worked out at a gym every Saturday with a friend who was a Muay Thai circuit fighter. When the Taekwondo instructor heard about it he asked me to stop and to focus on what he was teaching. Everyone sparred with their hands down and chins up. We weren't allowed to strike to the head even though everyone was geared up. I dropped several people with straight shots to the body when they were off balance after missing with a kick. I got yelled at: "Stop doing that! That's not Taekwondo!" So I did stop......training at that school. Belts perform one useful function....they keep your pants from falling down.
There are dojos that don't spar? I can't believe people fall for going to train in a dojo, without sparring. That's like going to a music school to play guitar... but never letting the student play more than one chord. What the heck?! Thanks for this video man.
I don't know if I'd say that primarily having children's classes makes a place a black belt factory (I've always preferred that term to McDojo). If the school's in the suburbs then most of the student body will be kids, it's only logical. Also, they'd have a hard time getting adult classes in every day for every belt and still have the children's classes for each belt, even if they combined some ranks. I'd say it's more of a red flag if they either only have one or two adult classes a week, or just don't offer them at all. Also, a point I'm surprised I've never heard anyone else mention for if a school is a black belt factory, if they have more than one location.
I agree that it doesn't guarantee that the place is a mcdojo, it is something that should register on your radar & make your ears perk up a bit. Most gyms that I have been to that focus primarily on children's classes didn't have great adult classes. Most gyms that had great adult classes didn't have a heavy emphasis on children's classes. So I think its fair to say that there is SOME correlation there. At least in my experience.
4 is iffy that's a business problem if the testing fee is insane high yes, belts, printing certificate, miscellaneous cost is more than just a a belt cost. basic color belt is 15-20 + s&h, color certificates are 1-3$ how well made they are ect..
My black belt testing consisted of a bunch of sparring, form and kicks, and 1000 kicks. We also had to break 2 boards with a front snap kick, roundhouse kick, axe/hammer kick, tornado kick, back kick, and a few more. Lastly we had to do a written test on Korean terms, numbers, and what we thought taekwondo was and why we did it.
do not worry. If the "sensei" sucks money outta you its better leave right now, but possibly if you seek skill & strength you can improve yourself by doing more exercise just by yourself and after show your mcdojo mates what karate looks like. About me: 18 years, shotokan, funakoshi assn., green belt, do test every 2 months but practised budokan karate early and studied in current dojo 4 months before doing test. Also we write dojo-kun and sensei is never amused by our kata. I dont think it's mcdojo.
Don't worry about it. If you're having doubts about your rank go to some other dojos/gyms and get some sparring in with other people. This will give you a broader scope on where your abilities are. If you find out that you are where you should be in rank than you will have cleared the doubt from your system. If you find out that you aren't where you should be consider it a blessing that you found out now rather than waste time spinning your wheels. Either way you win. Don't get too caught up in belts. Mike Tyson didn't have a black belt but I don't think anyone would argue he couldn't fight or defend himself :)
I used to be in a kickboxing class but then due to moving to another city I moved into a boxing school where I can say my handwork improved pretty well. The thing is that the teacher would not allow us to spar until he would confirm that we are 100% ready. he considered this a very big step and for him being ready was at least 6-8 months. In the kickboxing class on the other hand the teacher would put us to sparing right after the basics.
Majority of the Martial Arts Studios in my area teach Taekwondo plus their's couple of Black Belt Factory TKD Schools in the area and now I'm starting to see a few more of these TKD mcdojo's pop up every year. Signs of a Mcdojo TKD school; promising new students a 1st Degree Black Belt in under 1-1/2 to 2 years, charging visitors a fee $$ who are just there to watch and check out the school, forcing students to wear the school patch on their uniforms plus additional patches and fining $$ students for not wearing the patches (for me personally I prefer to have a uniform thats clean free patches, too many patches on the uniform makes it look like your in boys & girls scouts), instructor continually walks around not correcting anyones form and just dictates students in what to do (follow me and do what I do), school only trains in point score sparring (watered down BS sparring, point score sparring doesn't teach students how to deal with retaliation and doesn't expose them to the real world of full contact olympic sport TKD sparring).
Also people in the gym should be competing. Testing yourself against someone your size that has focused his time and energy to be his best is better than ANY random day of sparring.
Agreed. In addition to that, I believe the extra stress, noise, and over all mental pressure of competing is important. a real fight wont feel the same as sparring with your buddies. Competition isnt the same as a street fight, but the extra pressure makes it a little closer to one than sparring. Competition isnt 100% mandatory to learning to fight, but I think its extremely important and should be done.
I practice Shotokan Karate and I'm honored that I didn't go to a McDojo. My Sensei always does the best for us, his students, he teaches us proper discipline, respect and even maintaining a healthy body. I personally agree with the fact that there's no need for you to rush into getting a certain belt. It takes time for the body to develop full-power and show what it's really capable of doing. I, myself do not want to promote my ranking yet, because I know for a fact that I still need to improve myself to be worthy and deserving of the ranking given to me. Thank you for making this video, and hope you'd have a great day! Osu!
I’ve never heard of a martial arts school that doesn’t charge for belt testing. Unless they are at a community center or the YMCA. Even then I’m sure there is a small fee.
Sign #2 is not necessarily straight-forward. My judo club has 3 classes on each training night. First kids 6-8 for an hour, then 9-14, then adults. Kids are usually 20 per class, adults only around 10. Kids alternate between games and techniques, but standards are pretty high (I think, anyway) for the grown-ups. Kids are important for the club, without them we might not be able to keep going.
It’s late but that’s how mine is, the coach is clear that the kids keep the lights on and costs down. However, I’ve been to the kids class and the coach doesn’t give an ounce when it comes to discipline. He always says during line up “if you’re not here to listen get off my mat and save my time and your parents money”
-Floor to ceiling panel glass on outside walls -Inappropriate equipment (ie “Hulk Hands”, toy plastic “Lightsaber” style swords) -Over complicated techniques that are contingent on your target standing still
Other signs: The school claims to teach anti-bully strategies, promises improved grades and conduct, claims to build leadership skills, claims to instill respect and gratitude, but the actual training has nothing to do with those claims and promises, or is actually opposed to them. i.e., there are no strategies taught on how to de-escalate a confrontation with a bully, there are no academic study tips taught, students are never given the chance to take charge, the instructor swears at students. The emphasis is on aesthetics (making forms and lessons look good), not application. Fighting in other combat ranges (wrestling or grappling) is never addressed. The student is never allowed to question the instructor. Ever. The instructor acts inappropriately towards students. i.e., If he's a guy, he asks out the female students on dates, etc. There is favoritism. The instructor is pushy in making students who gave up return. And by pushy, I mean stalkerish behavior (calling them up day and night, actual stalking).
I think that would be ok. Rank denotes experience. saying you can't come to a certain class because of experience is a good thing! They're taking good care of you!
my dojo has a certain day each week where only brown belts and above and go to just so those highs belts have a chance of doing skills for their level instead of constantly doing skills that may only challenge up to a red belt (the belt before a brown belt at my school)
Some things are not covered, I've always had to pay for testing and on a few occasions received a NO CHANGE because of poor performance or failure to show improvement. I've also seen students passed over for belt promotion because they hadn't improved enough to even be considered. One of the worst Martial Arts schools, using the term very loosely, that I'd ever seen made sure to check off a negative for every McDojo trait imaginable. The instructor boasted of dozens of belts in different systems, had no children classes at all. no kata ever and lots of sparring and his students invariably were the sorts who'd feature in stories about some street fighter decking a black belt
Thanks for watching & taking the time to leave a comment. Glad to hear you moved on from that place. Hopefully that wasn't the end of your training. Did you move to a new gym?
Glad to know me and my daughter didn't enroll in a mcdojo! :) We just got our yellow belts. The teacher said it's a MINIMUM of 5 years to reach a black belt and most students take even longer! And we only had to pay for the price of our new belt to take our test. :)
Paying for gradings isn't the worst concept considering the instructor is usually paying several other instructors of high rank to grade you on their day off. It's when there's more gradings than there should be and you pay for medallions and what not.. this is where it gets ridiculously upselly like a literal mcdonalds store. Secrecy is the same as stagnancy, I couldn't agree more there. My first real club I committed to was Kempo and they swore to be so much better than any other style and how you bring dishonour on the style and yourself to ever speak about it or share it outside of the dojo. It was also completely taboo to train in any other style. However, the instructors where actually really good and the high ranking belts where well refined killing machines who where also very good at sparring, but particularly good at self defence. However the club is dying because it doesn't branch out.. the people training lack vigour and the art fosters this surreal killer mentality.. everything is about brutally destroying the opponent.. for this reason, along with its desire for extreme secrecy it has an unspeakable coldness and closedness rather than openness and warmth. Spose you gotta ask yourself what you're training for?
I don't agree with number 3 at all necessarily being a sign of a McDojoke since legitimate dojos adhere to fairly strictly to the discipline / style they teach. However, a sensei did tell me that to be truly fit and adequately prepared it would be necessary to cross-train. So, they may veer off from time to time and teach additional tactics as an adjunct, but to advance in a legit dojo it's mandatory to learn the techniques as taught traditionally. I'd also add to #4 that it seems like there's a LOT of black belts. YOU get a black belt, and YOU get a black belt... and YOU, and YOU... I've seen McDojokes where there were like 20 or 30 black belts. It's like they were handing 'em out at the door.
We at our karate club charge about 100 dollars a year, and that money goes into our club acount to be used on club activities, we train only six hours a week, but i have a full time job so IT limits my time, also IT is enough for most. I instruct for free, IT is the only way to keep IT pure. We do not produce dan grades on conveyer belt i pity the ones who have purchesed a dan grade. IT should require about ten years of dilligent training.
Wow, that's a pretty interesting set up. 100 a year is an amazing price. How do you guys manage monthly over head like rent & bills? Sounds like a cool idea. And I totally agree about people buying their rank.
Barbarian Philosopher Podcast we train in a publicly owned sport facilities that are available rent free. The local council authorities believe that sporting activities at low cost are a benefit. The only thing we need money for is to travel and take part in competitions and to pay for examiners to come when we have grading (once a year) thank you.
I'm am not a mcdojang I teach taekwondo and I bring in an outside master in which I have to pay him for his time so saying testing fees make you a mcdojo is an idiotic statement
Look around and try a few other gyms & dojos first. That way you can make an informed comparison. Best of luck to you on your martial arts journey! Thanks for watching and commenting.
Barbarian Philosopher Podcast I found another wing tsun dojo. it turns out this dojo does sparing after students have reached a certain level however one of the instructors informed me that once a students reaches a 12 grade level, they will put that student in the middle of a 15 man circle, each of which will "try to beat the shit" out of that one student to test their skill. Idk what to think about that however some red flags to me were the fact that the instructor was cussing in the dojo while he was talking to me about how they run things, I mean I know mostly everyone cusses but kung fu or any traditional martial art is supposed to be done with honor and students are supposed to treat the dojo and each other with respect. also they didn't offer me a free lesson, they told me I had to pay for tuition first which I found very odd. they wanted to charge me $125 for classes that I can attend 6 days a week anytime I want as long as it was with in school hours, which I thought was a pretty good deal but then the instructor told me there's also a yearly $60 fee since it was an organization and he went on to tell me that the fee would allow me to participate in classes in different states and even China if I so happened to travel as long as the school was part of out Lineage. however I don't want to doubt them because their grand master is Leung Ting, a well known wing tsun master. I'm thinking if I can't find the right wing tsun school I might stick with my current sifu, or maybe I should look into a different art? thank you
5 years good or bad to get a black belt? Edit: I had completely forgotten about this video and comment, and as it turned out I counted wrong, I got my junior Black Belt in Japanese Ju-jitsu in 7 years, of wich that really doesn't matter, what matters is the senior Black Belt and I got that after 11 years of training.
The Art is Ju-jitsu. Head Sensei may have lower stamina, speed and strength than their youth but he can out grapple everyone at the Dojo, (in a fight to the death I could beat him with strikes but he could beat me with grappling) out of all the Sensei I may be the weakest in grappling at the Dojo (for context I have been a Sensie for the shortest time and I'm the lowest ranked Sensie) but he out grapples every other Sensie, not just me. At twelve I knew nothing my strength started increasing to the point that at 14 the head sensei saw my grapping was flawed and that I was using power not skill, sooooo the head Sensei put me with the adults to show why strength alone wasn't enough I started religiously trying to retrain my throws, (if the world was an RPG video game grappling/throws would be my lowest combat stat, it's not pathetically low or anything, think of it like all the other combat stats are set to extremely high and my grappling/throws stat would be set at the medium,) paintball dodging levels of reflexes at 16 (that was at a birthday party... not the Dojo sensie isn't crazy) by 17 I was given the chance to earn a black belt, after that I was able to help pass on the training now to the kids as a sensie on the Friday lessons. Dojo three a week each 1 1/2 hours long, and I practice more at home on my mats for more training. training has been used to stop college fights between people smaller and larger than myself. sorry if hard to read, dyslexic, does it sound like 5 years was too short?
@@princessmarlena1359 @David Renteria I had completely forgotten about this video and comment, and as it turned out I counted wrong, I got my junior Black Belt in Japanese Ju-jitsu in 7 years, of wich that really doesn't matter, what matters is the senior Black Belt and I got that after 11 years of training.
+Tristen MacArthur Good question! Depends on the reason for the child being enrolled in the class. If it's to instill discipline, get the child in shape, help the child socialize, or to give them an after school activity, sparring isn't as high of a priority. That said, if the child is being enrolled so the child can learn to fight & defend themselves, then yes. Frequent (supervised) sparring is important.
I practice Shorin-ryu and we don't spar. Simply because it's not typical in traditional Okinawan karate. Okinawan karate is 75% kata. We also do yakosuko kumite - prearranged sequences. We practice karate as an art, not a sport. Usually when I think of sparring I think of Taekwando. I also don't think sparring would work for us because we aren't light enough and are taught to use a lot of force and not pull strikes unless we are practicing kata at half speed or for the Pinan kata which are "peaceful and flowing".
8 year old black belts and the cherry picking that goes on with the students. Someone getting a black belt in 8 mouths to 3 years easily just cuz they were taught the advanced stuff at yellow belt while a self defense person has to actually wait for that rank to learn anything and is always the last to learn anything at all.
How to know if you are at a mcdojo: theres a 9 year old black belt bad ass thats a ass kicking machine and has gotten there black belt within 6 weeks and thinks there some hot shit and is so boastful on a level that there isn't a word to describe it with you should just yeet yourself right out of that fake ass mcdojo right then and there
Not all dojo's who offer one or two free class is not a McDojo they want see if you like school and what they offer you or you can go too another school. Not every school has too spare either the class i was in it just Focused on is serving on the streets. Some people want miss lead you on this stuff I've been in martial arts for well over 21 yreas i have studyed over 5 different martial arts over the years!
I think you may have misunderstood my position somewhere. I'm not making the argument that places that offer free trial classes are mcdojo's. That's pretty standard practice across the board. As far as not sparring I have to disagree. Pressure testing against a resisting opponent is mandatory if one intends to be able to do what they practice in real life against somebody who intends to do harm and resist whatever you throw at them. I've seen too many "black belts" with years of hitting the bag, doing forms/katas, static partner drills, etc get their asses handed to them by somebody with 6 months to a year of sparring. Or even worse by somebody with no training who's just athletic, aggressive, and has had a bunch of street fights.
Barbarian Philosopher Podcast : that's your opinion I respect that but in my school my students dnt spare and one of my students kicked ass with out spareing that's my point if people you know got thier asses kick maybe two things one they dnt know how to handle them selfs and two they didn't do something right in thier fighting abilities in martial arts if you're going to be a martial artist or take it it's about reading your opponent no matter if they have more martial arts experience or not and looking for their weak points in the opponent if you're more short is yourself you should know this and that's all I got to say on this matter on the 21 year veteran in more shorts I know what I'm talking about I've been teaching for sometime now
The problem with martial arts is that you cannot practise the end activity ( hand to hand " life or death " warfare like combat ) in a safe non destructive way. You have to use a " proxy" to emulate it in a symbolic dispute . Even ring sports like Kickboxing and MMA are not " real" fighting since the objective is to win the bout and not to kill the adversary. Of course It's obvious that those combat sports are the closer you can get from the real thing. Although one can argue that they are super damaging to the fighter's health and they don't stress much the philosophy and moral aspects that should be intertwined with the martial knowledge. Peace.
Good points! I don't know that the moral aspect has to be as intertwined in martial arts as it once was. But I don't think it should be completely lacking either.
Except when you live in Israel and are surrounded by that religion of peace countries that are so keen to kill you only because one is a Jew. Krav Maga (yes i know we life in the Krav Maga bashing era, but i dont care about that) is used inside and outside the military in real live situation for 70 years now. On a daily basis.
I teach a small class but am not fantastic at kungfu and am only 20, I'm working hard to get better myself so that I can be a better example to my students and to reach better. I feel (and am) inadequate but I'm glad that I am the opposite of these points. My kungfu may not be stellar but at least I'm not a 'mcdojoer'
Boxing gyms are almost never McDojo's They not only teach you to fight, but also give you a sense of real fighting skills and bullshit fighting skills Same goes for Wrestling, and/or BJJ Real sparing is a dead give away Muay Thai is a good example Really all MMA is
All good points. Especially about singing the praises of one's style without having any knowledge whatsoever of other styles and methods of training. One school I trained at asked me if I had ever trained in any martial art. I had boxed and told them so.
They said, "Boxing is not a martial art and a boxer has no chance against a martial artist." I also worked out at a gym every Saturday with a friend who was a Muay Thai circuit fighter. When the Taekwondo instructor heard about it he asked me to stop and to focus on what he was teaching. Everyone sparred with their hands down and chins up. We weren't allowed to strike to the head even though everyone was geared up. I dropped several people with straight shots to the body when they were off balance after missing with a kick. I got yelled at: "Stop doing that! That's not Taekwondo!" So I did stop......training at that school. Belts perform one useful function....they keep your pants from falling down.
Bruno Borer sounds like your TKD teacher is a Mcdojo cult leader
anyone who says boxing isn't a martial art has lost touch with reality imo.
also, TKD is a sport, just like boxing. That was kind of a case of the pot calling the kettle black, lol.
I honestly hate McDojo schools, at my school we don't automatically rank people. You have to earn it
There are dojos that don't spar? I can't believe people fall for going to train in a dojo, without sparring. That's like going to a music school to play guitar... but never letting the student play more than one chord. What the heck?! Thanks for this video man.
@UltimateGeek Exactly!!!
I don't know if I'd say that primarily having children's classes makes a place a black belt factory (I've always preferred that term to McDojo). If the school's in the suburbs then most of the student body will be kids, it's only logical. Also, they'd have a hard time getting adult classes in every day for every belt and still have the children's classes for each belt, even if they combined some ranks. I'd say it's more of a red flag if they either only have one or two adult classes a week, or just don't offer them at all.
Also, a point I'm surprised I've never heard anyone else mention for if a school is a black belt factory, if they have more than one location.
I agree that it doesn't guarantee that the place is a mcdojo, it is something that should register on your radar & make your ears perk up a bit. Most gyms that I have been to that focus primarily on children's classes didn't have great adult classes. Most gyms that had great adult classes didn't have a heavy emphasis on children's classes. So I think its fair to say that there is SOME correlation there. At least in my experience.
4 is iffy that's a business problem if the testing fee is insane high yes, belts, printing certificate, miscellaneous cost is more than just a a belt cost. basic color belt is 15-20 + s&h, color certificates are 1-3$ how well made they are ect..
My black belt testing consisted of a bunch of sparring, form and kicks, and 1000 kicks. We also had to break 2 boards with a front snap kick, roundhouse kick, axe/hammer kick, tornado kick, back kick, and a few more. Lastly we had to do a written test on Korean terms, numbers, and what we thought taekwondo was and why we did it.
Oh no! It hit 3!! My intuition is correct! Now I don't feel like I deserve my belt. :(
do not worry. If the "sensei" sucks money outta you its better leave right now, but possibly if you seek skill & strength you can improve yourself by doing more exercise just by yourself and after show your mcdojo mates what karate looks like.
About me: 18 years, shotokan, funakoshi assn., green belt, do test every 2 months but practised budokan karate early and studied in current dojo 4 months before doing test. Also we write dojo-kun and sensei is never amused by our kata. I dont think it's mcdojo.
Don't worry about it. If you're having doubts about your rank go to some other dojos/gyms and get some sparring in with other people. This will give you a broader scope on where your abilities are. If you find out that you are where you should be in rank than you will have cleared the doubt from your system. If you find out that you aren't where you should be consider it a blessing that you found out now rather than waste time spinning your wheels. Either way you win. Don't get too caught up in belts. Mike Tyson didn't have a black belt but I don't think anyone would argue he couldn't fight or defend himself :)
Maverick: Thanks for taking time to comment & share your experience and advice!
Barbarian Philosopher Podcast passing blue belt this saturday, gl 2 me
+Maverick Good luck & congrats man!!!
I used to be in a kickboxing class but then due to moving to another city I moved into a boxing school where I can say my handwork improved pretty well. The thing is that the teacher would not allow us to spar until he would confirm that we are 100% ready. he considered this a very big step and for him being ready was at least 6-8 months. In the kickboxing class on the other hand the teacher would put us to sparing right after the basics.
Giorgos Andrigiannakis makes sense. Boxing can get injured easier.
Well depending mostly by Gym's ideology and the sparring partner, we were mostly putting 10-20% power.
Majority of the Martial Arts Studios in my area teach Taekwondo plus their's couple of Black Belt Factory TKD Schools in the area and now I'm starting to see a few more of these TKD mcdojo's pop up every year. Signs of a Mcdojo TKD school; promising new students a 1st Degree Black Belt in under 1-1/2 to 2 years, charging visitors a fee $$ who are just there to watch and check out the school, forcing students to wear the school patch on their uniforms plus additional patches and fining $$ students for not wearing the patches (for me personally I prefer to have a uniform thats clean free patches, too many patches on the uniform makes it look like your in boys & girls scouts), instructor continually walks around not correcting anyones form and just dictates students in what to do (follow me and do what I do), school only trains in point score sparring (watered down BS sparring, point score sparring doesn't teach students how to deal with retaliation and doesn't expose them to the real world of full contact olympic sport TKD sparring).
Michael Singh totally! Any martial arts instructor that does this shouldn’t be allowed to teach or even do martial arts.
Also people in the gym should be competing. Testing yourself against someone your size that has focused his time and energy to be his best is better than ANY random day of sparring.
Agreed. In addition to that, I believe the extra stress, noise, and over all mental pressure of competing is important. a real fight wont feel the same as sparring with your buddies. Competition isnt the same as a street fight, but the extra pressure makes it a little closer to one than sparring. Competition isnt 100% mandatory to learning to fight, but I think its extremely important and should be done.
But not everyone wants to be a competitor.... some people do it just as an hobby
I practice Shotokan Karate and I'm honored that I didn't go to a McDojo. My Sensei always does the best for us, his students, he teaches us proper discipline, respect and even maintaining a healthy body. I personally agree with the fact that there's no need for you to rush into getting a certain belt. It takes time for the body to develop full-power and show what it's really capable of doing. I, myself do not want to promote my ranking yet, because I know for a fact that I still need to improve myself to be worthy and deserving of the ranking given to me. Thank you for making this video, and hope you'd have a great day! Osu!
Thank you for watching, and taking the time to comment. I am glad to hear you have found a good place to train. How long have you been training for?
I'm still a newbie at Shotokan Karate. I've been training for 4 months now and I'm enjoying it. Hoping I would be a great fighter in the future!
Well congrats, and best wishes on your path.
I’ve never heard of a martial arts school that doesn’t charge for belt testing. Unless they are at a community center or the YMCA. Even then I’m sure there is a small fee.
scrawlin18 We don’t charge in BJJ
Bjj schools in my area charge 130- 185/month
Sign #2 is not necessarily straight-forward. My judo club has 3 classes on each training night. First kids 6-8 for an hour, then 9-14, then adults. Kids are usually 20 per class, adults only around 10. Kids alternate between games and techniques, but standards are pretty high (I think, anyway) for the grown-ups. Kids are important for the club, without them we might not be able to keep going.
It’s late but that’s how mine is, the coach is clear that the kids keep the lights on and costs down. However, I’ve been to the kids class and the coach doesn’t give an ounce when it comes to discipline. He always says during line up “if you’re not here to listen get off my mat and save my time and your parents money”
In regards to number 4 What if they ONLY charge you for grading to blackbelt?
I'm not a fan of the idea. But, depending on how much they're charging, I suppose that isn't too bad.
-Floor to ceiling panel glass on outside walls
-Inappropriate equipment (ie “Hulk Hands”, toy plastic “Lightsaber” style swords)
-Over complicated techniques that are contingent on your target standing still
Other signs:
The school claims to teach anti-bully strategies, promises improved grades and conduct, claims to build leadership skills, claims to instill respect and gratitude, but the actual training has nothing to do with those claims and promises, or is actually opposed to them. i.e., there are no strategies taught on how to de-escalate a confrontation with a bully, there are no academic study tips taught, students are never given the chance to take charge, the instructor swears at students.
The emphasis is on aesthetics (making forms and lessons look good), not application.
Fighting in other combat ranges (wrestling or grappling) is never addressed.
The student is never allowed to question the instructor. Ever.
The instructor acts inappropriately towards students. i.e., If he's a guy, he asks out the female students on dates, etc. There is favoritism.
The instructor is pushy in making students who gave up return. And by pushy, I mean stalkerish behavior (calling them up day and night, actual stalking).
What if the gym says that u cant join more advanced classes until u become a higher belt
I think that would be ok. Rank denotes experience. saying you can't come to a certain class because of experience is a good thing! They're taking good care of you!
my dojo has a certain day each week where only brown belts and above and go to just so those highs belts have a chance of doing skills for their level instead of constantly doing skills that may only challenge up to a red belt (the belt before a brown belt at my school)
The quality of this video looks like an old VHS tape from the 90ties. Good video, you've described nearly 99% of all gyms.
I had to pay 399 for the next 6 months when I got a tour does this mean it's a mcdojo?
Some things are not covered, I've always had to pay for testing and on a few occasions received a NO CHANGE because of poor performance or failure to show improvement. I've also seen students passed over for belt promotion because they hadn't improved enough to even be considered.
One of the worst Martial Arts schools, using the term very loosely, that I'd ever seen made sure to check off a negative for every McDojo trait imaginable. The instructor boasted of dozens of belts in different systems, had no children classes at all. no kata ever and lots of sparring and his students invariably were the sorts who'd feature in stories about some street fighter decking a black belt
Very good video, left my mcdojo 12 years ago!
Thanks for watching & taking the time to leave a comment. Glad to hear you moved on from that place. Hopefully that wasn't the end of your training. Did you move to a new gym?
the dojo i go to you need to know the techniques in order to test,
Glad to know me and my daughter didn't enroll in a mcdojo! :) We just got our yellow belts. The teacher said it's a MINIMUM of 5 years to reach a black belt and most students take even longer! And we only had to pay for the price of our new belt to take our test. :)
what about sparring?
Ralph Shively We've been practicing blocks with each other and with the teacher. :)
Is a 45 min class considered normal?
Donald Darkest no 1 hour is normal or a 1 and a half
Paying for gradings isn't the worst concept considering the instructor is usually paying several other instructors of high rank to grade you on their day off. It's when there's more gradings than there should be and you pay for medallions and what not.. this is where it gets ridiculously upselly like a literal mcdonalds store.
Secrecy is the same as stagnancy, I couldn't agree more there. My first real club I committed to was Kempo and they swore to be so much better than any other style and how you bring dishonour on the style and yourself to ever speak about it or share it outside of the dojo. It was also completely taboo to train in any other style. However, the instructors where actually really good and the high ranking belts where well refined killing machines who where also very good at sparring, but particularly good at self defence. However the club is dying because it doesn't branch out.. the people training lack vigour and the art fosters this surreal killer mentality.. everything is about brutally destroying the opponent.. for this reason, along with its desire for extreme secrecy it has an unspeakable coldness and closedness rather than openness and warmth. Spose you gotta ask yourself what you're training for?
I don't agree with number 3 at all necessarily being a sign of a McDojoke since legitimate dojos adhere to fairly strictly to the discipline / style they teach. However, a sensei did tell me that to be truly fit and adequately prepared it would be necessary to cross-train. So, they may veer off from time to time and teach additional tactics as an adjunct, but to advance in a legit dojo it's mandatory to learn the techniques as taught traditionally.
I'd also add to #4 that it seems like there's a LOT of black belts. YOU get a black belt, and YOU get a black belt... and YOU, and YOU... I've seen McDojokes where there were like 20 or 30 black belts. It's like they were handing 'em out at the door.
We at our karate club charge about 100 dollars a year, and that money goes into our club acount to be used on club activities, we train only six hours a week, but i have a full time job so IT limits my time, also IT is enough for most. I instruct for free, IT is the only way to keep IT pure. We do not produce dan grades on conveyer belt i pity the ones who have purchesed a dan grade. IT should require about ten years of dilligent training.
Wow, that's a pretty interesting set up. 100 a year is an amazing price. How do you guys manage monthly over head like rent & bills? Sounds like a cool idea. And I totally agree about people buying their rank.
Barbarian Philosopher Podcast we train in a publicly owned sport facilities that are available rent free. The local council authorities believe that sporting activities at low cost are a benefit. The only thing we need money for is to travel and take part in competitions and to pay for examiners to come when we have grading (once a year) thank you.
Dobokdude by the way we are in Norway.
Sign #1You Are In A McDojo:
You earn a black belt, then get your ass whooped by Johnny down the street who has never trained in martial arts.
I'm am not a mcdojang I teach taekwondo and I bring in an outside master in which I have to pay him for his time so saying testing fees make you a mcdojo is an idiotic statement
Agreed, Masters/Grandmasters should be paid for their time and knowledge
It's good that i quit mine after 1.5 years
so if they charge for belt tests, it's a mcdojo? my sifu is always teaching that our style (wing tsun) is better than all other styles of MA.
and it's a non contact, no sparring dojo. after watching this video I now know I should leave.
Look around and try a few other gyms & dojos first. That way you can make an informed comparison. Best of luck to you on your martial arts journey! Thanks for watching and commenting.
Barbarian Philosopher Podcast I found another wing tsun dojo. it turns out this dojo does sparing after students have reached a certain level however one of the instructors informed me that once a students reaches a 12 grade level, they will put that student in the middle of a 15 man circle, each of which will "try to beat the shit" out of that one student to test their skill. Idk what to think about that however some red flags to me were the fact that the instructor was cussing in the dojo while he was talking to me about how they run things, I mean I know mostly everyone cusses but kung fu or any traditional martial art is supposed to be done with honor and students are supposed to treat the dojo and each other with respect. also they didn't offer me a free lesson, they told me I had to pay for tuition first which I found very odd. they wanted to charge me $125 for classes that I can attend 6 days a week anytime I want as long as it was with in school hours, which I thought was a pretty good deal but then the instructor told me there's also a yearly $60 fee since it was an organization and he went on to tell me that the fee would allow me to participate in classes in different states and even China if I so happened to travel as long as the school was part of out Lineage. however I don't want to doubt them because their grand master is Leung Ting, a well known wing tsun master. I'm thinking if I can't find the right wing tsun school I might stick with my current sifu, or maybe I should look into a different art?
thank you
spursfan90 paying for test is because you can't make much money from running a dojo
spursfan90 and maybe both of those wing tsun are both not so great to take
5 years good or bad to get a black belt?
Edit: I had completely forgotten about this video and comment, and as it turned out I counted wrong, I got my junior Black Belt in Japanese Ju-jitsu in 7 years, of wich that really doesn't matter, what matters is the senior Black Belt and I got that after 11 years of training.
Depends on the art, the teacher, and the student. Daily, weekly training? 2 a days?
The Art is Ju-jitsu.
Head Sensei may have lower stamina, speed and strength than their youth but he can out grapple everyone at the Dojo, (in a fight to the death I could beat him with strikes but he could beat me with grappling) out of all the Sensei I may be the weakest in grappling at the Dojo (for context I have been a Sensie for the shortest time and I'm the lowest ranked Sensie) but he out grapples every other Sensie, not just me.
At twelve I knew nothing my strength started increasing to the point that at 14 the head sensei saw my grapping was flawed and that I was using power not skill, sooooo the head Sensei put me with the adults to show why strength alone wasn't enough I started religiously trying to retrain my throws, (if the world was an RPG video game grappling/throws would be my lowest combat stat, it's not pathetically low or anything, think of it like all the other combat stats are set to extremely high and my grappling/throws stat would be set at the medium,) paintball dodging levels of reflexes at 16 (that was at a birthday party... not the Dojo sensie isn't crazy) by 17 I was given the chance to earn a black belt, after that I was able to help pass on the training now to the kids as a sensie on the Friday lessons.
Dojo three a week each 1 1/2 hours long, and I practice more at home on my mats for more training.
training has been used to stop college fights between people smaller and larger than myself.
sorry if hard to read, dyslexic, does it sound like 5 years was too short?
Harry the Human Substitute Arrancar sounds a littler weird to me, I’ve seen brown belts stay at brown for 8 years alone before reaching black
The belt color truly shouldn’t matter, IMO, it just shows your progress, experience, and knowledge range.
@@princessmarlena1359 @David Renteria
I had completely forgotten about this video and comment, and as it turned out I counted wrong, I got my junior Black Belt in Japanese Ju-jitsu in 7 years, of wich that really doesn't matter, what matters is the senior Black Belt and I got that after 11 years of training.
Very very profound information thank you
a good martial arts gym starts with sparring everyday, or at least 3 times per week.
Yeah, frequent sparring is a must.
+Tristen MacArthur Good question! Depends on the reason for the child being enrolled in the class. If it's to instill discipline, get the child in shape, help the child socialize, or to give them an after school activity, sparring isn't as high of a priority. That said, if the child is being enrolled so the child can learn to fight & defend themselves, then yes. Frequent (supervised) sparring is important.
Fernando Mendoza we do it 2 times a week but we are all kids 13 and under
Shit we never spar. Im in a mdojo
I practice Shorin-ryu and we don't spar. Simply because it's not typical in traditional Okinawan karate. Okinawan karate is 75% kata. We also do yakosuko kumite - prearranged sequences. We practice karate as an art, not a sport. Usually when I think of sparring I think of Taekwando. I also don't think sparring would work for us because we aren't light enough and are taught to use a lot of force and not pull strikes unless we are practicing kata at half speed or for the Pinan kata which are "peaceful and flowing".
Mate, you are spot on
Hey Glenn, thanks for taking the time to leave a positive comment. Glad you enjoyed my perspective on the subject.
8 year old black belts and the cherry picking that goes on with the students. Someone getting a black belt in 8 mouths to 3 years easily just cuz they were taught the advanced stuff at yellow belt while a self defense person has to actually wait for that rank to learn anything and is always the last to learn anything at all.
How to know if you are at a mcdojo: theres a 9 year old black belt bad ass thats a ass kicking machine and has gotten there black belt within 6 weeks and thinks there some hot shit and is so boastful on a level that there isn't a word to describe it with you should just yeet yourself right out of that fake ass mcdojo right then and there
This is an excellent video
Not all dojo's who offer one or two free class is not a McDojo they want see if you like school and what they offer you or you can go too another school. Not every school has too spare either the class i was in it just Focused on is serving on the streets. Some people want miss lead you on this stuff I've been in martial arts for well over 21 yreas i have studyed over 5 different martial arts over the years!
I think you may have misunderstood my position somewhere. I'm not making the argument that places that offer free trial classes are mcdojo's. That's pretty standard practice across the board. As far as not sparring I have to disagree. Pressure testing against a resisting opponent is mandatory if one intends to be able to do what they practice in real life against somebody who intends to do harm and resist whatever you throw at them. I've seen too many "black belts" with years of hitting the bag, doing forms/katas, static partner drills, etc get their asses handed to them by somebody with 6 months to a year of sparring. Or even worse by somebody with no training who's just athletic, aggressive, and has had a bunch of street fights.
Barbarian Philosopher Podcast : that's your opinion I respect that but in my school my students dnt spare and one of my students kicked ass with out spareing that's my point if people you know got thier asses kick maybe two things one they dnt know how to handle them selfs and two they didn't do something right in thier fighting abilities in martial arts if you're going to be a martial artist or take it it's about reading your opponent no matter if they have more martial arts experience or not and looking for their weak points in the opponent if you're more short is yourself you should know this and that's all I got to say on this matter on the 21 year veteran in more shorts I know what I'm talking about I've been teaching for sometime now
+Robert Mace I respect you as well my friend. This is just a friendly exchange of ideas. What martial arts did you train in?
Barbarian Philosopher Podcast : i trained in shotokan, tkd, judo, jujitsu, little of kung fu,
+Robert Mace Cool man. Hope to see you around our comment section again sometime.
If your instructor looks like this guy - Number 7.
The problem with martial arts is that you cannot practise the end activity ( hand to hand " life or death " warfare like combat ) in a safe non destructive way. You have to use a " proxy" to emulate it in a symbolic dispute . Even ring sports like Kickboxing and MMA are not " real" fighting since the objective is to win the bout and not to kill the adversary. Of course It's obvious that those combat sports are the closer you can get from the real thing. Although one can argue that they are super damaging to the fighter's health and they don't stress much the philosophy and moral aspects that should be intertwined with the martial knowledge. Peace.
Good points! I don't know that the moral aspect has to be as intertwined in martial arts as it once was. But I don't think it should be completely lacking either.
Except when you live in Israel and are surrounded by that religion of peace countries that are so keen to kill you only because one is a Jew. Krav Maga (yes i know we life in the Krav Maga bashing era, but i dont care about that) is used inside and outside the military in real live situation for 70 years now. On a daily basis.
LOL You can't occupy land with no previous legal sovereign.
I teach a small class but am not fantastic at kungfu and am only 20, I'm working hard to get better myself so that I can be a better example to my students and to reach better. I feel (and am) inadequate but I'm glad that I am the opposite of these points. My kungfu may not be stellar but at least I'm not a 'mcdojoer'
I wouldn't judge!
I agree with you 100 %
Vallaris is a mcdojo
OMG I LOVE YOU (not like that) I FINALLY KNOW!!!!
Glad to help! Thanks for watching.
Boxing gyms are almost never McDojo's
They not only teach you to fight, but also give you a sense of real fighting skills and bullshit fighting skills
Same goes for Wrestling, and/or BJJ
Real sparing is a dead give away
Muay Thai is a good example
Really all MMA is
They are easier to learn and easier to teach then. That's why it's less
One of the best schools I went to was at a local boys and girls club. I learned more there than any other place I went to.