Tungsten Grind Angles Matter!
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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First... If you're a weldor and you're not active in the Instagram community, you're really missing out. There are a lot of guys and gals that offer up a lot of tricks of the trade on a daily basis. The community is worth its weight in gold, so be sure to go check it out. Now back to our point... Conversations come up on IG every so often on Tungsten grind angles and what people's preferences are. So many people will comment, "It doesn't matter. I work with what is given to me."
Don't be that guy. While it is important to be able to work with anything, tungsten grind angles matter. Learn how each angle impacts the arc envelope and how the impacts your welds. In this episode we are going to help you do that.
We are going to run four different grind angles:
1. 15º Grind Angle: Gives a wide arc envelope and is good for thin material where you don't want a concentrated arc.
2. 30º Grind Angle: Good "all purpose angle, as it gives a good, balanced envelope.
3. 30º with a Blunt: Good for AC applications as well as getting a concentrated, driving arc. This also helps maintain a good tip.
4. 60º Grind Angle: Good if you're trying to drive an arc into a deep fillet. This angle gives a super concentrated arc.
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I've only done 2 tig classes and the teacher goes and sits in his office whole time. I've been probably doing a 15 to 20 grind and have been wondering all week why my welds are super sharp and small. You taught me more in 10 min than what my teacher taught me in 6 hours.
That's how they keep you in school to make money 💰
Welcome to welding school basically the same in my school basically every decent weld I’ve produced has been from RUclips and reading a book. Nothing from my teachers as much
You must go to blueridge lol my tig instructor is the exact same
bingo
Get out of school before its too late
Bob *pokes sharp point*
Bob "dang thats sharp"
Bob *pikachu meme*
Bob pokes finger with sharp object, Hmmm why did that hurt, MOMMY!
@Stan Rodgers
That’s me!!!
A classmate asked me to retrieve a couple pieces of metal from the scrap bin because he wanted to show them to the instructor.
I didn’t think anything of it and reached in with my bare hand and lifted them out of the bin!
The classmate had just been welding on them and I pulled them all the way out of the bin before I felt the pain!!!
@@AzzKicker-bz1cb outch!!!
I really like your laid-back street-ish attitude and also that floppy backwards cap, or whatever it is. First video I ever watched on your channel and made me subscribe. Thanks for this; Very educational and entertaining.
You have to be careful sharpening thoriated tungsten. If you sharpen with an angle grinder or bench grinder you should do it outdoors .. Sharpening gives off radioactive dust ...
Weld shots are amazing
Some measurements etched into the base metal so that we could get a more accurate sense of the dimensions of the cone would be nice
I was hoping to see a cross section of penetration and all 4 still shots of the weld pools in a row or collage at the same time for comparison...
but still this was a good video to get educated about grinding tungsten. cheers
I have photomicrographs of tig welds with 625 laid over CS with different grind angles. Polished and etched
Very nice sir.
I want to learn Tig welding job
Thanks for the heads up makes sense
I didn’t know that it was a “thing” to use E3 tungstens for DC tig .... most guys i know use E3 on AC ...
Also if you look at that 15 degree grind. It does “just fine” or at least a whole lot better on much lower amps !
How many amps were you running at 100? I mean a 3/32 should be able to “take that” but then again that is a pretty sharp grind .... so you would have to look more like current carrying capacity of a 1/16 maybe even 040....
That sharp grind could also stand a shorter arc than 1/8”
Thank you Bob! Great information, yep them tips can be sharp, and yep the camera was on lol! #!$%*! Camera guy....... 🤣😆😂🤣 👍👍
Can't wait for part 2!
thanks for the pro tip Mr Moffet
Thanks Bob
I would watch bob talk about anything,
60° on aluminium pipe.. that's what I use.
Excellent thanks. Will get sharpener from praxair
Very helpful information.
What about ball?
I prefer a 360° tip. It’s an “all around” good tip. Covers all the angles.
I see what you did there
Not trying to be a dick or anything, but a 360 degree tip would technically be a ball... soooo, when your tungsten balls up, you already got a 360 degree tip!! Haha
So an AC Ball
@Brayan Kashton the next thing for you to do then, is to book a session with a shrink. You have an obsessive control behaviour and people with that ruin all their relationships their own lives and the lives for their closest persons.
I’m not trolling! It’s well meant!
Good luck with your personal development
Kind rgds
Anders
Sweden
@@cripplekid0902 is a 180 tip a ball?
I think you might be wrong.
Tig welders: Grinding angles.
Me: Haha, Mig go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
I'm a tig beginner, but I think the big thing Bob forgot to mention in this really excellent video is how the grind angle actually effects the arc plume. From what I've read (and it jibes with my ancient EE courses) the arc come off the surface of the tungsten at a right angle, so that a needle point makes a wider arc plume because the arc goes out almost horizontal as it leaves the electrode and then bends back to the workpiece. And on a blunter angle, like the 60 degree, the arc still comes off at 90 degrees to the surface--but since the grind angle is steeper the arc doesn't have to bend as much to get to the surface of the workpiece, thus a narrower (and hotter) arc results.
Great tip
Thanks I thought it worked along those lines but nice to hear a confirmation 😊
Aha
Mr. Moffit, as a person who has only been learning to weld for the last 90 days, it seems like I keep learning more and more from your instructional videos. I guess you will tell me you will never know enough. I have read 10 books so far, watched literally hundreds of hours of videos and feel like I know nothing about welding. I want to thank you for your efforts, for I have learned more from you and your videos than all the others combined. Because of you, I now can pull a decent flat bead with different types and sizes of electrodes and you have helped me improve 100% with my MIG. Please keep on, for this disabled person finds refuge in welding and learning.
Wow, you must have not seen any of Jody's videos over at Welding Tips and Tricks. As a 20yr Pipe welder I still learn things from Welding Tips and Tricks, but not so much from Bob's channel.
ruclips.net/user/weldingtipsandtricks
Jeez, in order to be politically correct, we find terms worse than the original ones. How can you be disabled, if you are still learning and doing stuff, or, better said, if you are still active???
@@WestCoastMods I watch him as well and Jody is good, but I have learned more about settings from Moffit because he explains why. Nothing against Jody, I have watched every video he has produced here. Now, I am not saying that Jody has not taught me more about TIG, I even own one of his TIG fingers.
@@bogdan_n Guess you have no knowledge about being disabled. Maybe you need to think before you post. Just because I am disabled doesn't mean I am dead FFS.
@@jrcicirello Sir, i mean no disrespect. Au contraire. Daily, i see people with no physical impairments (but with great comportamental deficiencies) who are affraid of learning something new, because then they will have to do it at some point, so, for them is easier to shrug and say "I don't know how to do it... ", while You are still learning something new. Although i'm not a welder, i learned the basics of TIG welding from a 72 yr old, who, despite a severe problem on his right leg, looked like a magician while he was wielding the torch, and that saved me from a whole lot of trouble a few times. I have the deepest respect for anyone who keep themselves active. I just hate that label, as by definition it means deactivated, inoperable. That's all.
Thanks for the lesson in tungsten angles. I just bought an inverter machine, Blue color, but have never run or owned a tig. Brought up on oxy / acetylene wire welding with coat hangers. First electric welder was a tombstone, Red color. I'm old enough to realize I'll never pass myself off as a certified x-ray quality welder. People like yourself are humble experts with talent you were born with. The rest of us are just amazed to watch your artistry and hope to just improve a little by watching and listening. Thank you sir.
Fantastic camera work in this one guys. Very informative. I just naturally do the 30 degree tip.
Should have shown the final welds on the steel you tested your angles on...
I am a welding instructor in the uk and still watch and use video and information from here , thank you for sharing
Mr. Bob, Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to make each of these videos. I'm currently taking a continuing education class at the local community college, welding of course. We only have class on saturday for 7 hrs. That aint a whole lot of time to learn stick and tig, especially tig. I knew I needed more time behind the shield so i bought the alpha tig 201XD . With the help from your videos and welding each night after work, I'm learning alot. Even ran some beads of aluminum for the first time tonight. Again, Thanks buddy and dont ever stop!
Kudos to whoever the editor is. Thanks for just putting the different arcs together it's so nice to see it right after each other then putting filler material between the different tips.
Can anyone tell my why my, 3/32” 2% thor tungsten tip starts to round and lose its arc shape on DCEN, when I weld around 130-150 amps (Non AC, no freq, no pulse) for medium periods of time? Like consecutive 1-3 min beads on steel pipe.
It also turns bright red, gets sooty black as well
You need to step up your tungsten to a 1/8th. Also when you terminate your weld leave the argon flowing for about 5-10 seconds instead of turning it off immediately. Your tungsten shouldn't be turning black or it's getting too hot and not the proper cool down.
Learning to weld like many other things is such a rabbit hole. These videos are super effective. Can't believe how much I've learned that I had zero idea about. Big thanks.
I've been welding over 30 years with tig being the primary. I've played around with various grind angles and found some very interesting results. Try grinding at the 30°angle but instead of spinning the tungsten leave it on the wheel and create a flat side. Do this so you have a 3 or 4 sided pyramid shape. Understood not time saving but the arc is so concentrated at the base of the tungsten with a tiny gas shield. Great for low amperage applications. The arc travels down the points rather than across the entire tungsten and is more controlled. Give it a try
Any more advice for welding aluminum?
I'm sad I never took classes down there. I lived in Winfield for years, and never knew this shop existed!
Would love to see the part 2 to this video! Please do it.
Yes this is exactly what I am missing... I use an eastwood grinder but it only sharpens it to a fine point unless you intervene changing the angle yourself. It's really nice tool but I don't think its the one size fits all solution for tungsten grinding like they claim. Many different tip points that I still don't fully understand yet.. Thank you for this video.
Yes please!
It's been two years, was the part two made?
Very interesting video
Might be a good idea to give a basic explanation of how the electrons flow on the surface of the tungsten and the angle that is ground at the tip will determine penetration. the wider the angle the more penetration generally, especially if you grind a flat spot on the end of the tungsten. Thin material will need a very narrow angle so you are less likely to burn through. Just my experience with tungsten grinding after 40 years of welding.
@REPUBBLICA ITALIANA what about them?
Bob, It appears that the blunt tip (60°) electrodes heat up faster than the (15°) tips, does this effect the weld quality?
Thanks for informative vids.
One would think it would be the opposite. Sometimes you get surprised. Comparison video like this helps.
What I do I use between 15 and 30 .
Time to say Merry Christmas and a safe Happy New Year to you and your family from an old man who wishes he new what you have fogo
Very interesting. I would like to see the same thing with the tungstens at 45 degrees in a 90 degree fillet to see how the arc is affected by side walls. Good camera work.
The reason for the blunting of the tip is that the arc actually burn from about 1/16 back from the tip and gives a more stable arc sharp tips fragment and leave inclusions in the weld
I set my machine hot hot hot and regulate with the pedal, so °30 blunt is where its at. If I screw the pooch and mash the gas I don't gotta get worked up about blowing off a point.
weld.com
where is the conclusion?? what's the difference? no side polish section and acid etch!!! this wasn't helpful since it didn't conclude or for that matter even NOTE the puddles' width relative to each grind!!! Why post this? Good idea, just not taken to conclusion.
that is what i thought they would show here
Go check out Jody for the answer to that question weldingtipsandtricks
i believe the purpose of the video was simply to capture footage
I think what we're talking about here is the arc characteristic, what the arc looks like, what's the obvious difference between grinds. If these puddles were all in a line, it would have been fairly easy to cut through the plate and show the nugget, but you can kind of guess what you would see: Blunter point makes more concentrated arc, narrower deeper puddle. Sharper point is easier to start and run, that little point gets up to temperature quickly, and stabilizes the arc. We didn't see it here but I think the electrode with NO point might be ideal, but have practical problems of starting and running, might not be so forgiving of different weld currents as a pointed one. The tapered grind with flat end is a compromise.
Leonard Pearlman I can see what you mean, however I wish that he had given us a plot screen example of each arc characteristic. A side by side comparison would’ve been helpful instead of having to scroll through the video myself to compare. And even if i do that it’s difficult to tell the difference without a sxs comparison.
Im a Professional stainless tig welder and live by the 15° angle on my tungsten it was absolutely the key in going from getting by to getting good. Love your videos have been a faithful watcher since I started in the trade
What’s the reason for the 15 * angle on stainless?
I'm a professional tig welder. I use super sharp always on stainless, with footpedal and I set my gas up on my cheek....a slight breeze. Footpedal is the key to controlling the arc.
Yea did that the other day except I had the tungsten in and zapped myself. Won’t be doing that again!
For the math-nerd types...
*The reason for the inverse nature of the grind to the depth, it's the 90° - grind° * 2π = total arc degrees.*
*Then you take the surface, and it's a plane/line that extends through the arc you just made, Take the amps times the segment intersection length / total arc degree = surface percent energy transfer.*
welded for a living over 30years. I agree about the 30 degree grind. Its what I always use! Carbon steel mainly and stainless. My pet hate is people who sharpen on a communal wheel and keep it in one spot and put a deep groove in the grindstone. It is a stupid and annoying habit. Just plain lazy and wears the wheel out 1000x faster. Those people will go to hell
All I have to sharpen my tungsten right now is an angle grinder. No matter what I do, the grinder always breaks the tip off right as its just about to get sharp.
Keep the tip cool with water. You don't sharpen drill bits in one go and get them purple do you? Heat equals brittle. I always grind it flat first and wherever it breaks I put my tip on. I use a 440 welder at work.
It would be nice to see a still shot of all of the grinds lit up beside each other.
Scott King yep I second that Scott
7656
YES ! and the weld from each as well.
"Tungsten Grind Angles Matter!" Yeah right up to that point when you flick onto AV and the end balls up :)
Whatever tip I can quickly make on a grinder is the angle I use :)
That what I been doing last 15 years. Big flat sander where I work. Tungsten is tough and tears up sanding wheels quick so I keep mostly to the center. That is my turf.
Needed to try new welding procedure for job at my work. Needed to try burn in with fusion weld. Shop engineer told me to grind the end flat for more penetration. I said ???? What ???
Facts 💯
Get caught doing that in the field on a code job and you"re packing up and going home. Not a good habit to develop.
@@michaelszczys8316 its probably more frugal to get a diamond sharpener that will last you longer in that case.
I seem to sharpen my tungsten between 25 and 30 degrees, though occasionally I'll blunt the tip just a little bit during passes to fill over root passes. With aluminum AC welding though, I use a blunted 35 degree angle, and it usually balls up pretty nice.
i usually us a ~30° angle with a ~35-40° bevel at the tip
this is the grind i use for pretty much all welds i do at work
I'm a GC and carpenter by trade. Welding has always been on my skill set bucket list. Your videos are awesome, spot on, and you guys are very knowledgeable instructors. I look forward to learning more.
great video Bob..well explained..you need to sort your camera man out though! he'll be expecting pay one day! :)
At least that tungsten was properly sterilized....
Would have REALLY appreciated a few shots of the weld puddles! Wasn’t that what we were looking at?
I thought so! And the penetration maybe. Here's what five seconds at 100A did to this COUPON kind of thing. I think they are much different.
Hahaha I love the ending. Great educational material.
Thank you sir for all your efforts, I have learned a lot from you. Happy holidays, cheers! 🍻
Hello,
I’ve one question and in my country is nobody who know for that question answer.
I grind just one time red tungsten which have as I read in internet 2% Thorium, I grind in my garage maybe in 20 seconds and I didn’t know that it has radio active element for that tungsten.
Please let me know is it very dangerous for health if I made that just only one time?
Thanks a lot!
Best Regards,
I didn't have anything to add during my first time watching this video because I was tired, but I've got one tip that I have used a lot.
Say if you're using that 15° grind on your thin metal etc, you can always regrind the tip of the tungsten and it entirely changes characteristics of how your arc performs. High science, it's something that is useful in a pinch or if you're not within reach of a grinder... Once I put my initial 30° grind on my tungsten pack, I'll use a my diamond whetstone for my pocket knives to refresh the tip or regrind it.
Let's say you blunt 20% or less of that initial 15° tungsten grind after your tungsten collects foreign residue on the tip after incinerating it out of your parent metal... You can regrind however much of the sharpened area you want into one of the other grinds. I'll often take that 15° and put a 60° on the very tip using while less than 80% of the total sharpened area to give the initial grind some more penetration/depth.
Doing that will make your arc characteristics an amalgamation of both grinds. You'll no longer waste amps away on the surface trying to get the puddle formed as the 15° grind would normally do alone and it'll punch down into your parent metal much, much faster. It tightens up the arc from a max width plume and focuses about 80% of the energy down into the parent metal. *It's really great for aluminum and you don't always have to run it blunt.*
The secret is in the shoulder of the grind and the tip of the tungsten! The drawn out portion doesn't have any real effect on arc other than current capacity and total working time before the tungsten craps out due to the needle-like tip being incapable of dissipating the heat. It's all calculus and how the energy is directed to a focal point at the end...
That's the beauty in breaking down and just buying your own machine; it may not make you much better of a welder than you already were before you bought it, but it'll make you that much more of an efficient welder when you have time to observe these things that you don't usually have time to do at work.. unless you're looking to load your box and drag up anyways! 🤣
trying to learn on aluminum, it looks to me that blunt end sends the arc straight down into the work. At least the pictures of it look that way to me. Would this help penetration? seems logical to me. Alluminum acts different to an arc as well. with AC and cleaning action.
I must experiment more...
thanks for the video.... it's very informative.
Lowering my cfh down to 15ish from 25 really stabilized my arc..really surprised me!! Always thought more was better wen it came to that stuff..
I think it was This Old Tony who did a good comparison on gas loads. Too much gas makes a venturi and sucks in atmospheric gasses into the arc, as well as blows the arc around.
A very information packed video for us all to see. So the sharp 30 degree angle is your favorite grind. How often does one need to sharpen this sharp point ?? Peace VF
I recently bought a tig welding machine, now I'm starting to learn.
it was very helpful to me, thank you!
i always run a 60 degree grind angle, but i almost only weld pipes and it makes a really big difference when welding stainless pipes and you need to totally penetrate the metal.
Suggestion for another video, something interesting and important that we can't see ourselves: The AC cleaning action on Aluminum or Copper, shown up close and in slow motion! There's often a sense of flickering down there on the surface, like little bits of lightning, I bet it would be something to see in high-speed video!
I grind with a flap wheel. I have no idea what the angle is, but it works in the field. I'm totally gonna get me a dedicated tungsten grinder though, so I can confirm I'm doing it right.
Great teacher thankyou for putting in so much effort and you gave me the idea of perhaps having a few electrodes ready to the side to swap to as the weld requires. I have to weld a thin wall 2.5 inch tube to a casting - any tips would be very appreciated lots much 😊im thinking of an electrode ground 60 /15 to get the arc high on the casting side
Thanks. After watching few of your videos i bought an s7 inverter tig welder from the jungle. I am trying alum welding to build a trailer. While practicing with 1/8 thick alum it just melts the entire dam thing. 1/16 tungsten. How can i make a puddle and add filler rod? I tried 70 80 90 110 130 n 150 amps with 15 cfm pure argon... Great videos btw
Tnks you very much sir. Tutorial very good. My prom indonesia🇮🇩🤝
Bob likes blunts!
Having blunts while welding has a lot of benefits, a calm hand for example.
loll😁😁😂😂
You caught me!
But I also like a good schleifwinkel.
@@bobmoffatt4133 news just in bob likes a good schleifwinkel! U the man bob 👍
Why does tungsten get into ball on end when tig ?
What tip angle do you recommend for dairy pipe to 5mm plate , while making bracket’s?!,,,,, ☘️💯
Just curious it seems that the 15 had a larger arc zone, so the puddle would've been smaller. The 30 blunt seems yo voncentrate the amps more cleanly, seems its penetrantraton would be best. Makes me think of shaped charges in explosives. The cone/funnel shape creates tge inverse shape on detonation. Curious if the same would be true for the arc of tungsten.
Back when I was welding in school after doing stick an mig a shit ton I got to do aluminum tig. I was good with it in a month and my teacher said I could be qualified if I couldve brang some of my weld down at the end it didn't connect and some filler was on the top plate an not the bottom one. I cheated an used extra filler. One of the funnest welding I've ever done. Highly suggest to learn it if you enjoy welding and a challenge
Also wondering if it's true but my teacher Mr rose told us that putting a tungsten Rod onto chemically mad beef jerky can make it ignite
For root and fill of 316L stainless pipe, I preferred 30°. I would go with 15° to cap. I would get a nice silver or light gold cap depending on the schedule.
The better you grind your tungsten, the better weld. All grinds in this video are wrong. You grind your tungsten parallel to the axis . Not perpendicular to the axis. The electrons flow better. U.s.Army trained, college educated, self employed fifty years total, it never stops.
This is great info. I never put much thought into my grind angle. Thank you! The video is perfect when watched at 125% speed.
Blah! Blah Blah! You could have said this in less than a minute regarding angles and performance. What's with the animosity with you and the camera guy? Weld.com needs a new commentator!
The amount of knowledge being shared is incredible. Thank you for taking the time to share the love and teach the correct methodology
The camera gangster 🤣🤣🤣 that's the final straw, I'm enrolling at Cowley College!!!!
yes i have noticed that also, making a very sharp tip makes the arc spread out which is the opposite of what you sometimes want to achieve when grinding the tip
So pretty much the sharper the top the wider the arc? Wow I guess I been complicating my job more than what it should lol
That’s the best welding video that I’ve ever seen. How did he get such good full-color video?
When I do really thin stuff I do the 15 degrees I do blunt it a little bit not much but I’m like you bob for everything else I use the 30 I do keep it a little sharper with aluminum it just acts a little better I think with a sharper end get a smaller ball it almost acts as if it can be controlled better for aluminum if it’s sharper
I almost always work 30 blunt. But thats just because i stuck my tungsten and haven't resharpened yet
I was expecting cut and etch in this demonstration.
I will go back and watch it again but I certainly expected more.
Hi Bob, I noticed that all your welds were vertical, in reality your tungsten would be at an angle! So would this effect the arch?
Not much
I didn’t see much difference. I need better explanation, maybe stop and point to the differences.
Wish you did 45° and straight flat too. Have an old miller book with a lot of cool TIG info in there and they show etchings of cross sections on welds and it’s fascinating. So good to see a high quality video displaying this info.
Your write up somewhat explained the effects on the arc, but a drawing explaining what you are accomplishing would be more helpfull. 👍
Would it be a good idea to get the cross section of these dots just to see penetration?
now, can you please dip the tip 4 or 5 times and then stuff the pedal to the floor while lifting the torch up so it looks more like my setup 😁 seriously tho- thanks for the education 😉
Great camera work to show the arcs - but why bother when the video just returns to the presenter talking about how he uses the different grinds ? No attempt is made whatsoever to comment on the differences in the arcs or to make sense of them.
What happened there about ⅓ way through the 30⁰ sharp shot?? There was a massive change in arc shape and intensity?
Thanks Bob! Being a noob to TIG and struggling to find good techniques, your videos are clear, informative and very helpful.
Be nice to the camera dude. It’s difficult to hold a Tigue torch, welding rod and a camera too. How about teaching the camera dude how toTIG weld and you run the camera? That should be a hoot.
Merry Christmas.
Been trying to do just that for years.
Here’s a tip, make your 15 degree angle and then barely blunt the tip so that the tungsten is not sharp. Great versatile use.
Real welders don't go out and buy a welding bench they make one
Dont need to blunt your end with aluminium, if you cleaned your material en sharpend your elektrode you should not get any polution in your weld.
Sehr gut. Weiter so. 👍👍👍👍
What about chemical sharping
Do you mess around with that much
I find it gets really sharp point
Chemical sharpening works but it's just not practical in the field. A diamond wheel or a grinding rock works best and faster.
My tips always burn to a nice 60° after a few passes then hold that until I snap off the tip.
Jesus would have used the 30 degree plus blunt.