Yes the grind matters. You do not want it to be ground helically as this will cause arc wander. During arc on periods there is an electron flow going down the tungsten to the work piece. If your tungsten is not longitudinally grained/polished and has a helical grain you will get arc wander. This is caused by the electron flow being scattered off of the tip of the tungsten due to the circumferential graining redirecting some of the electrons. Always grain/polish longitudinally. It is recommended that you leave a very small flat spot on the end of your tungsten grind. The test showed this quite well actually. The nice grained 2nd tungsten with the flat focused the arc the best.
I was reading the manual for the Miller Syncrowave 200 I just bought a couple days ago, right before I watched this vid. Miller recommends a small flat tip on the end of TIG electrodes; stating the size of the flat is relative to the amperage setting. Unfortunately, they don't give specifics, as in, 0.0xx dia for xx amps.
OK...found this channel by accident...but I like it and subscribed...but let me tell you why.. I've been fabricating race cars, off road toys and doing special effects for the movies for oh say 30 years...And got pretty good at it...BUT you will never hear me say "I know it all..." actually love to watch other good guys to see how they do their fab and guess what? I always learn a new thing or two, or a better way of doing something...and I've had guys with years in the business learn a thing or two from me...so bring it on! Thanks for taking the time do do these videos!
I usually use the bench grinder or belt sander, but I was taught to point the tungsten downward in the same direction the grinder/sander is moving. I think depending on the results you are trying to achieve, there is also alittle wiggle room with the angle you hold the tungsten to the grinder.
Well, if you check 'Miller info', you find that you have an inverse relationship between extreme taper and amps, so that the higher the amps, the lower angle you should use (to preserve tip life). HOWEVER, as you kinda showed here, sharper angles lead to PRECISION spots...so it comes down to what you are trying to do...22-gauge sheet lap-welds? severe angle (say, 15-20 degrees). 1/8" wall stainless tubing? robust angle at say, 25-28 degrees. The 'grind finish' is actually important, too...the finish being smoother will actually lead to tighter heat zones and 'more distinguished' heat bands...vs rough finish giving a more dispersed heat band...I personally haven't got the CNC or 'steady hand' enough to see if it impacts the actual weld 'smoothness' or not, but my first guess would be 'it should'.
Try a gauge block to ensure the same gap between the point of the tungsten and the coupon. Also make sure you have the same tungsten stick out. Interesting video.
Try grinding one with a twist or spiral and another with the scratches running straight down the tungsten and one with a smooth finish . Then test it up close to a wall to simulate welding the bottom of a hole. You'll find the straight down and the smooth will weld the bottom only and the twist will arc against the side wall also .
I completely think it matters. I use a 4" flat diamond grinding wheel from Harbor Freight. $8. Only used to sharpen tungsten. I use it in the field, in the shop, and at home. On a angle grinder with the tungsten in a drill. I get a perfect finish on the tungsten with minimal dust. 👍🏼
I use a diamond wheel from a chainsaw sharpening kit that harbor freight sales. It's on my 4.5" angle grinder and chuck my tungsten in my drill takes about 3 seconds. I also made a small guide block that attaches to the handle so I'm the grinds are always consistent
I have a chain saw sharpening tool, I want to set it up to take advantage of the angle setting gage to get as consistent as possible grinds. Has anyone done this?
I use a flap disk 120 or 220 grit and hit it with red and green Scotch-Brite pad after it sharp when you give it a good polish and weld's super great for me.
yes thats what I do, i use the belt sander at 120grit with a blue belt then the scotchbright to polish the tip and it works great in stainless using the smaller cups.
Isn't it a rule of thumb that the "cone" height you grind should be 3x the diameter? Also the grind marks should be parallel to the tungsten rod - otherwise you introduce turbulence into the plasma.
@@kamilzarzycki3866 what I've always done (it's kind of sketchy) but hold the tungsten up and down, and then at like a 60° angle push it into the belt sander or grindstone, be gentle or else it'll jump out of and stab into your hands..
Point the end that is being sharped toward the direction of rotation of the sharpener. Doing so will avoid foreign matter inclusion in the tungsten. It will also aid in several other ways. Don't allow the tungsten to get very hot while sharpening in order to avoid oxidation. Follow up with a type of buffing wheel to polish the grind marks out of the tungsten. Something like a scotch bright wheel should do the trick.
I was wondering about that, actually. Other videos have told me to always make the striations go towards the tip, too, but in this video he did the opposite. Thanks for explaining why it's important!
Excellent video! Setting the tungsten to a consistent depth would improve your testing consistency. It appears that cone angle makes the largest difference. Thanks again for a great comparison.
Why do you always sharpen with the wheel or disk rotation towards the end and not away from the end of the tungsten? I'm looking forward to using my new Yeswelder 250 a/c d/c Tig welder. I am a beginner in Florida. 61 years old
I actually prefer not to let the tungsten get red hot while sharpening, dip it in water to keep it cool since it isn't being shielded by argon while out of the torch. I usually just use a belt sander and my hands or a tungsten vice when it gets short.
Very interesting test. A very long time ago I was shown how to TIG and there were just two ways to do it. All were done on the grinding wheel and one way was down the length of the tungsten and the other was roll the tungsten with horizontal lines. I'm not a professional welder by any means and have had absolutely NO formal training but I found you video so interesting as you brought up ideas I have never dreamed of. Thanks for the video and the ideas.
I have a Machine Shop with a Syncrowave 250/250. So I'm not a full time TIG guy. I sharpen mine on a belt sander which is different from your disc sander. I found 2 things doing that. 1) Finer belt is better but not too fine that you over stress the Tungsten. 2) the slower I spin the Tungsten in my hand drill, the better. It seems to have a nicer arc profile with the sanding lines more vertical.
Use a silicon carbide wheel on the bench grinder. It makes an enormous difference. Also dress it properly with a diamond dresser. I don't even bother with those hand held tungsten sharpeners. I can make perfect sharp points every time by hand. Use a pin vise to hold the tungsten if it gets too short.
One thing I experienced when having my work xrayed was tungsten ending up in the weld. It was because I was sharpening it to a fine point. The cure was to touch it with the grinder on the tip after sharpening. In my garage I have been using the grinding wheel and it seems to work fine.
When I started TIG back in the days of dinosaurs we used the disc method (option 4). Specialized tools as a tungsten sharpener seem overkill for spot welding nickel packages. Guess in industrial use time concerns and productivity come into play in the equation. It could be worth while spending 30 sec.+ on sjarpening if you use it for occasional sharpening. If you end up having to redo it 40 times a day, that extra 20 minutes spent can match 100 completed spots or items in my case. That would equate to some 10% loss of productivity.
Great video. I was thinking about buying a tungsten sharpener, but as a hobbyist with low skill level, I think I can get a sharp point with what I have. Thanks
#1...Please take a breath between sentences.. Thanks.........;-) I use a dedicated bench grinder with a finer wheel, tungsten chucked up in a 3/8" drill. Then get rid of the grinder marks with a 2" diameter 320 grit 3M roloc wheel on a 90 degree air grinder, with the hand drill stuck on the bench, stationary... The extremely sharp tungsten come out POLISHED....VERY smooth and consistent arc...no wandering at all...I also check with a 10X jewelers loupe in very good light for grinder marks...The grinder marks have a tendency to make the arc wander with my machine...(A 1989 Linde 250HF Square Wave with a Bernard water cooler, HW20 torch.)
I use a 4" diamond coated wheel on an angle grinder in place of a flap disk. Can't really comment on quality of arc difference but it sharpens to a point easier and doesn't burn into the disc. I've used my fingers to spin it as well as a drill, I prefer finger spinning it because it seems my drills all end up with an oblong uneven cone shape. (Drill chucks are probably making it wobble)
if you polish the tungsten on a finer grit to remove the grinding pattern(scratches), it doesn't matter. Another great option is to finish it in chemical sharpening to refine the point and remove the grinding patern. Sodium nitrate or nitrite in a small dish with a torch heated tip, just dip in in for a second or two and the sirface finish will be beautiful. The reaction is very hot, so the red hot tip with quickly go white hot as the reaction strips metal from the surface of the electrode. You can do the entire process in the chem, but it takes a minute. I use it for refinishing or repointing and I love it. Fast, consistent and very effective.
I'm purely a hobbyist but i use the diamond wheels from HarborFright on one of there 3" Mini Tool Grinder. It makes a great little dedicated setup that fit on the welding cart.
After sharpening (grinding down the rod -length wise) I was taught to take them one by one and blunt tip them all barely just to knock the needle point off. IDEALLY as close to flat as possible. When I initially paid attention to the difference in tip shape and taper angle- I have found that the inner arc tends to form an electrical arc column to the substrate the diameter of the blunt on the tip, which doesn't wander as it does when it has a fine point. 1/16 & 3/32 tungstens butt welding 18 - 20 ga sheet metal. (Silicon grinding wheel ONLY FOR TUNGSTEN NOTHING ELSE!) Unless I am going to run high amperage I run a long taper, - if I am welding something thicker or if I am correcting a previous sloppy mig with to much weld wire I run higher amperages I make the taper shorter so the rod will handle the heat better without eroding.
I've used different grinders, though I prefer the rough and fine wheel...rough for when your tip breaks off and you need to bring it back to a nice point, fine to keep the point so you have a better and fine focus, and I always held it in my hand (too hot to hold, too hot of a grind, gonna break and damage that tungsten) and in an almost horizontal position. As for the conical angle, it always depended on the thickness of the metal I was working with and what result I wanted....finer the point, finer the weld, and kept a smooth edge, no rough. Way I see it, everyone is different, it's what your end result is that really matters!
So many opinions here but kinda easy to tell good ideas. Couple comments I didn't see though: I was told years ago that the convex angle given by a "properly" held piece of tungsten against a bench grinder is best. No extreme tip point except perhaps with low amperage as it just blows off the tip of the tungsten anyway. But my real comment I didn't see below is I've used the drill method a lot and still do, but if you hold the drill as it is shown then you will have to replace the drill chuck from time to time as the grinding dust gets in the chuck itself and it's so hot the dust embeds in the steel of the chuck so cleaning it won't really fix it. Especially after its done it a time or two. I've also had it thrown back at me or shatter and pieces expelled so it can be dangerous... I still do it but carefully. Last, and I saw it in several comments, if you heat the tungsten to the point you did in the video, you damaged it if not destroyed it. I keep mine cool by just dipping it in water as I'm grinding it. You have no inert gas to protect it on a grinder. And I've used every method you've shown plus some. I wish you did a more consistent test and hope you do in the future because I liked this as a concept. Length, angle, shape of grind, direction of grind marks, sharp tip or .020 or something else. Even the type of inert gas effects the shape of the arc and therefore the weld puddle.... there are a lot of details that were left out of this that a serious or professional GTAW welder would like and need to know. The information is out there and easy to find, but if you do a video of all of it in one place, all of us will want to see it and could benefit from it. Thanks for taking the time you did with this... great beginning to a subject that could be a series itself.
does it make a difference how you sharpen a tungsten? Yes. Does it really matter how you sharpen ? No, any medium skilled welder can work around the minute differences. Been welding for years and i just use the tool that have available at that moment. How i sharpened my tungsten has never been the source of a bad weld.
mike dierickx I decided to stay off the comments on this vid just because it's a no win situation for anyone arguing. However, your comment is definitely one I agree with fully, and would like to say thanks. It's straight forward.
I agree. I've sharpened the tungsten so many thousands of times and I've never found any issue - Sometimes I pay a little more attention when the job is more sensitive - welding stainless is one instance - and you need to avoid contamination....in those cases I'm just careful to keep the tungsten cool during sharpening. I've always kept the grind pointing along tungsten for final grind. Often I'll rough grind the tungsten if I need to shape it a fair bit, like when its new or I've touched the tungsten to the work and there's a glob of steel on it. But in the end, think of how dirty the tungsten gets after its done a few inches of weld. If its not too blunt, it still does its job fairly consistently. The grind just needs to be as good as that most of the time.
Yes as long as you finish any radial sharpening with some parallel sharpening you'll be fine. I've never used a drill bit just turned the tungsten in my hand and it's always been highly uniform that way.
Yes, definitely needs a follow up. I would love to see the different ways of cutting the tungsten to smaller sizes. Sometimes when I break them, under a magnifier there are hairline vertical cracks.
When I get the opportunity I normally sharpen all my tungstens with a blow torch. Pointing down, blowing down on the tungsten and spinning it at the same time, will make the tungsten last forever (a very long time, as long as you don't dip). I got taught this way from a fella that had been in the trade 40 years.
In order to make this an accurate test the angle and length of the grind would need to be the same on all tungstens, as well as, the distance from the tip to the work piece. Some fixturing should be used to eliminate these variables and make the setup repeatable accurate. It was a good first attempt and brings into play the control variables. Like the angle of the grind. You could setup another test grinding the tips with the same method but, changing the length of the angle to show it's arc characteristics.
I have been sharpening carbide tooling for the woodworking industry since 1973. I have dozens of diamond wheels that are to worn out to use on the tool and cutter grinder. I put one on my bench grinder that is dedicated to sharpening tungstens for tig welding. I've been using that same wore out wheel for about 8 years. My main business is making hydraulic cylinder components and welding broke of fittings back on cylinders
I use a belt sander with the tip pointed down, and a nice slow rotation to get a fine grain pattern. It takes a little longer but I get a nice tight cone and a controllable puddle. I use the same method for aluminum but i blunt the tip slightly, this is only on my inverter machine. I get almost the same arc characteristics as I do with ferrous metals.
my best results were using a 24 grit belt on a 6*48" belt sander. I ground on the idler wheel with the tungsten held at a slight angle and spun with a cordless drill. The angle and consistent speed of the spin allowed me to get scratches almost straight down to the point and with 24 grit, they were deep and sharp enough that the arc would really jump off the tip. Grinding on the idler gave the point a bit of curve rather than a straight cone, I'm not sure if that helped but the combo worked nice. One more thing, I think the 24 grit was aggressive enough that it would grind fast without making the tip glow too much. It certainly didn't create as much heat as a grinding wheel.
The format of your test was one of the better ones I've seen. That being said, in order to do a fair comparison, you need to remove some of the variables. The two biggest determining factors in arc quality are sharpening angle and arc length. Perhaps for your next test you could fabricate a jig to make sure you're always holding the tungsten at the same angle while sharpening (you could fab that up easily). Then use a micrometer to assure you have constant arc length across all tests. Here's a follow-up idea. Once you decide on a grinding method you like best, use that method to grind a bunch of tungsten, but this time vary the grind angle for each one. That would be a great experiment! Thanks for your videos!
+Bryan Martin I have some better tests in mind to eliminate the variables. I'm going to get pretty involved in this topic in the next episode for sure.
With a bench grinder mount it with the grinder base/foot against a wall with the power switch facing upwards... this orientates the wheel to rotate away from you, so no dig ins can happen when you want a long point and IMHO keeps the wolfram cooler. Dont spin wolfram fast with the drill you only need to rotate it slowly as it keeps the cone shape more concentric(just ask any wood turner about a bouncing the chisel on a out of shape blank)and the grind marks will be straight in line.
I sharpen on a bench grinder but with the rotation away from the point. The helical pattern makes the puddle swirl a bit. Kind of hard to explain how, but it makes it easier than if you had a smooth point
We use the grinding m. With a flat disc ( cutting disc ) , in the field . And in the shop we use A belt Sander . Try to make the grind parallel with the tungsten and cut away from the point ( cut in the same direction the belt is moving ) . That allways works for me . Regards from belguim pipe welder . Big fan thx for the video’s
Best results I've gotten were by using the tail end of my old Craftsman belt sander with the trigger locked on, 80 grit belt, tungsten in the drill as you're doing but set it on slow speed and let it turn as slowly as you can get the drill trigger to turn it (variable speed), run tungsten slowly left to right and back @ about a 20 degree angle over the running belt. The very minimal grinding marks end up being very straight, not swirling down to the point. When I initiate the arc it's almost instantly beginning to make a puddle (even @ low amp settings) and not much wandering of the arc. Also I've tried all types of tungstens and the blue (1.5 - 2.25%) and purple ( 2.35 - 3%) lanthanated ones seem to me to work the best (I might have those colors/percents reversed.) Be Blessed! : )'
Flap disc and drill is what I use, stick the grinder in the vise horizontally. Big difference between a really sharp tungsten with a drill versus a not-so-sharp tungsten with a grinder/hand rotating. I've messed around with angle, length, dirty flap disc vs new flap disc and didn't really notice a difference. 80% of the time, I'm in a position where I can't see the arc close enough to tell a difference. With "critical" welds I follow the "rules" of what is supposed to be done, but still think my torch/feed hand plays a bigger role.
If I weld above 100 amps I use a ceriated Tungsten with a water-cooled gun. I'll sharpen my tip slightly longer than a 3/32 diameter length and polish it out. This is for amperage is up to 250 amps and Welding on a hot plate. The ceriated will hold up under the high amperage required by the tool steels better than the thoriated above 100 amps. Sharpen basically the same and Polished. One thing I noticed is that you don't want your argon to look like it's an umbrella. You want it to go straight down your tip.
Hi there! I use the bench grinder, but on the side of the wheel, very much similar to your using the disc grinder. Is it possible for you to include this method in the comparison? Thanks!
Just watched your video. My understanding of sharpening a tungsten is; the taper should be 1 1/2 times as long as the diameter of the tungsten. The end should be squared before sharpening. Don't sharpen to a needle point, And the grind marks should be inline or slightly spiraled. I'm no pro, but this consistency has helped me to be consistent.
I usually sharpen mine on a belt sander with 60 or 80 grit and then follow it up with a Scotch-Brite wheel on a bench grinder and even farther polish it out smooth with a cloth polishing wheel. Then I usually use some lacquer thinner or acetone to remove any remaining compound that sticks on to it. But I don't do that very often because I mostly TIG weld using AC because I specialize in aluminum and anodized aluminum. It is kind of pointless to go through all that when as soon as I light up the ark I end up with a ball on the tip. But when I do weld DC for stainless or plain Steel getting a nice sharp point and having the tungsten smooth without any grain has a very nice arc characteristic to it that I like very much.
@@fjauke Doesn't really do anything. Red heat is still a good 1000C away from the melting point and you use even higher heat on it in normal use. The exact reason that it's tungsten is because it can operate at ridiculous temps
I found your videos today and subbed. I’m a fabricator and find some useful tips out of your done right vids. I was watching shortening the 8.8 and it brought me here. Still watched just to see. I use a belt sander. Then a fine disk on the opposite side. Works good for me. 36 grit to a 180 grit. Seems good for me
Not the author or anyone commenting has mentioned the safety problem of radioactive dust from sharpening thoriated tungsten electrodes or that breathing the tungsten dust period, is just bad... Though he is showing steel, it is inexcusable to omit the safety aspect if you want to use thoriated electrodes for aluminum.
My thoughts are that the finish on the tungsten should be as smooth as possible and that you don't want to heat the tungsten up so much that it starts glowing. I am currently using an 80 grit bench grinder wheel and a light touch. Since it is wearing too much, I will be replacing it with a 120 grit wheel. I may also put a 240 or 320 grit SiC disc on my bench sander. I also don't put a ball on mine when welding aluminum, but I do blunt the tip slightly. I also tend to do a longer (smaller included angle) on the tip for lower amperages and a shorter, more blunt tip for higher amperages. I am satisfied with the results which gives me a stable arc. Overall, great video.
Great video. I would try and line up the tungsten to the grind wheels a little straighter instead of an angled "helical" approach. Also, make sure that the rig to hold the distance off of the material is consistent. Love the experiment though.
I always grind my tungsten with the grinding tool rotating away from the tip (opposite of this video). I prefer using the beltsander for this. I try to avoid using flap discs for sharpening because this tends to snap the tip of when prepping the tungsten for stainless steel welding. Using belt sander gives me needle sharp tungsten every time and the tungsten last longer compared to flap disk. Be aware of this because it can be difficult to see the broken tip of the tungsten without a magnifying lens. Btw Ive seen this happened on 2.4mm tungsten from two different brands .
305mm drop saw with metal abraisive blade that is rough like sandpaper on the sides (alot of metal abraisive blades around are smooth on the side, wont work with these). Have a tungsten holder and manually and slowly twirl the tungsten so the lines/grind marks run the same direction as the point. Learnt somewhere to run grind marks this direction. Got to be careful as you do grind with hand near the blade but quick when doing many.
Used to do mine "old school" by hand, on a belt sander.. in less time than it takes you to find your drill and chuck the tungsten up.. Just saying, that pratting around time should be included in the total...
I generally have a really steep point angle of 60° whilst you are running something like 75°. So my point is still really pointy but it has a blunt angle. Would be fun and interesting to see if that makes any differemce . I was tought that a less pointy tungsten is better for penetration and a pointy one like yours just makes tge arc wide which pushes the amperage higher without any added speed or penetration.
i would like to see the test with a fine stone grinder wheel but the tungsten down, not up, down avoids any kick back, but i think it has finer marks on it also, in then i think it's more in the hands of the welder, there's a bit of input you asked for, even the side of the wheel i use some time just to clean up if i dip it look forward to your input
degree of taper sure made a big difference too, the spiral looked like I figured it would, really spread out arc. Great vid man, thank you. Subscribed.
I used the drill bench grinder method. Then I threw one more step in I grabbed 320 Emery cloth in to smooth out the tip a bit seemed to get the focus tighter. But now I use chem sharp which allows me to get extremely smooth and sharp points all u do is short the tungsten till it is cherry red then stick it in the chem sharp dip it or swirl it to continue the reaction till u get the desired point works great and no contamination from other sources. 😁
I'm an amateur. I have 3 primary tungsten sharpening methods. 1. Drill / Bench grinder with diamond wheel 2. Belt grinder 3. Drill / Bench grinder with alum. oxide wheel for the life of me, I cannot discern a difference between them. I've even done experimentation and can barely see a difference between grinding radially vs axially, although on aluminum, the arc wanders more when ground radially. On steel and stainless, it's not really apparent to me. I prefer the belt grinder, with a 400 or 600 grit belt. Takes a few seconds to get an almost polished tip. When using the drill, I don't rev it up too much, only 100 rpm or so. I exclusively use 2% lanthanated electrodes in 1/16, 3/32, and very rarely 1/8th diameters. I weld aluminum, steel, and stainless.
I am not a professional, so that being said.... From what I have seen and read grinding marks should be in line with the tungsten body, that is, parallel, not at an angle like the 4th one in your grind samples. Probable best having none if possible. I grind using either an Harbor Frieght small grinder with a diamond wheel or a Baldor with a diamond wheel: Better results with the Baldor, as expected. I use a drill like you, but run it much slower as to try to reduce the circular diagonal cuts.
I feel the consistency of the tungsten grinder is the way to go, But being too cheap to buy one I use the bench grinder and drill method. I will be in search of a Diamond wheel for the bench grinder. Love the arc focus of the diamond ground tungsten. It's all about control.
i use the diamond wheels from HF (item#69658 ) on one of there 3" Mini Tool Grinder. It makes a great little dedicated setup that fit on the welding cart.
I use the tungsten sharpner you used. But i stick the tungsten in a drill and go straight in the sharpner and lift off and repeat till its sharp. I would never let it get cherry like that.
When you let it get cherry red while sharpening all the properties of the cake mix migrate to the tip and evaporate and you end up with pure tungsten. Quick hits on a diamond wheel has always worked good for me.
Try sharpening them 180 degrees from the direction you where pointing the end. If the point gets caught by the grinder and it belt it will break the tungsten/tear the belt. Also if you hold them by hand they may shoot into your leg if the tip gets caught. Always sharpen anything with the end facing the rotational direction of the tool.
i bench grind and dip in water to cool , i get my point like a needle . the other guys sharpen on the side of the bg wheel ,it come out looking like a wood screw
I use a belt sander, then wire wheel to smooth it out, but I blunt the tip. That way the arc has a little flatter surface area to form the cone and not wonder. I'm betting if you have the same grind one to a point and one with the point blunted flat you will get a better arc and penetration. Looks like in the video the arc cone is formed off the side of the tip of the cone not just the tip
You need to grind them all AT THE SAME TAPER, if you don't they arc will behave differently. So re-do the grinds a bit more precisely to match the tig grinder taper and see how they perfom.
I use a bench grinder 99% of the time. If it has to be dead nuts perfect text-book, irreplaceable, family heirloom, one of a kind, super tiny, "You have only one shot, so don't mess up!!", I have a Dremel that I clamp to the table, and a few special pieces of wood as a jig to grind the tungsten just right.
I use 2% Thoriated (red) for pipe welding. Hazardous if inhaled, but it can be sharpened many more times before becoming to brittle to tolerate. I've been told that sharpening grooves should go in the direction of the tip, slightly blunted at end to avoid tungsten inclusions, and I choose diamond rotary bits for sharpening to reduce the color change in this video, by keeping lower temperatures in the process for longevity of use. I've always stayed with a tip similar to the appearances of a #2 pencil, as opposed to a golf pencil. 1/16, 3/32, & 1/8 for applications depending of root, fill, & cap. I'm interested to see if your tests verify my teachings. Thank you for showing the why & how it's best.
I'm merely just another simple pipe welder on nuclear powered submarine overhaul, always a student, always looking for the best ways to improve myself, & skilled craftsmanship.
Use a diamond wheel and grind longitudinally and polish the tungsten with a very fine grit polishing wheel and put the tungsten against the bottom side of the polishing wheel so the tungsten doesn't jamb into the wheel and break the tip off or worse. The way you grind a tungsten has the greatest effect on how well you weld. The rougher the surface of the tungsten the more the shielding gas will be disrupted causing the weld area to possibly be contaminated.
It does, and so does the way you grind them to get them to a point...so when you grind turn the tungsten sideways with the point to your left, twist clockwise when sharpening and it makes the grain change. It'll push most of the contamination away from the tip of the tungsten. it'll change the way the electrons flow from the tungsten itself. Sounds odd but it will change. Also 2% thoriated is the only way to go when tig welding.
For what it is worth, I use a Harbor Freight 1" belt sander and a drill. I hold the tungsten so the belt is running away from the point to prevent a dig in. I try hard to keep the tungsten in line with the belt to keep the scratches straight to the point.
The initial test results are directly related to the sharpness of the grind. The 100 amp test seem to favor the diamond sharpened one. This makes me want to ask: What is the correct angle to grind them? Also, I have lately tried to sharpen mine with less of a sharp point because I think I dip way more when I have a really sharp point.
I use one of those expensive things to sharpen it and I prefer to have the electrode angle around 31º (usually weld between 280-500 amp). I get the same result every time, it takes 1-3 seconds to do it. Oh and I do it by the book, grind it like a cone. Sharper electrode = slightly more penetration in case someone want to know. Too much, become clumsy. Too little and you cover a smaller area and it can be inconvenient.
I think for a better comparison you should use the same grit media on all the methods you used in the video. I would recommend 60- 80 grit media. I personally use a bench grinder with a 80 grit green grinding wheel.
I use a belt sander to get them somewhere close and to take any burning of the edges then I use a properly set up tungsten grinder made by ultima-tig which uses a 100mm wheel with a cutting fluid all held internally it’s honestly fantastic super crisp points they’re expensive to buy but it is so worth it especially when I’m tig welding unprepped zintec all day
I just hand sharpen on a bench grinder with a bit more of a taper. I generally just use a 2.4 Lanthanated though it also depends on amperage required etc
I have few bench grinders, one is dedicated do sharpening tungstens. I have Green "tungsten dedicated" disc on one side and very hard wire brush on second. First I sharpen normally, making cone with some small sharpening traces, then I use a brush but in opposite direction - from tungsten's body to cone's tip. Gives perfect surface on whole cone. No "wrinkles", even if watched under magnifying glass. Does it matter? For thin sheet metal apparently YES, for welding thin wall pipes/ports into thin wall containers - YES. Smaller Heat Affected Zone, smaller risk of burning a hole. For 1mm and thicker, LESS critical. For -things thicker than 3mm, may affect on penetration?
Don't let the tungsten get so hot while you grind them. The grinding groove should all be in the same direction. The angle should be exactly the same. Also get some pre-grinded tungsten to compare. We order our tungsten pre-sharpened at a 45° angle when welding titanium. The primary reason for this is to make sure there is close to no tungsten chipping off and ending up in the welds causing a lot of welds not passing the x-rays.
the using a brand new/dedicated tool for grinding is especially important with thoriated tungsten because it leaves radioactive dust on anything you use on it
depends on the coarseness of the actual abrasives and the high speed of tungsten rotation, slow the drill and they will really get better, or you could use a felt polishing mop and cutting compound and polish it up, for special jobs, after removing the wax.
ya, but depending on type of weld, you want your grind marks as straight up and down electrode and fine as possible..... for absolute best of course. the spirally grinds make a wandering arc sometimes.
chem sharp is butchers preservative, Sodum Nitrite, Produces a superior point, like a chemically sharpened fish hook, Only issue is that when using it a lot, you will burn through a lot of Tungsten. I have used a whole box in a single day using this stuff welding Inconel tubes in a tube sheet of a large heat exchanger. 4000 tubes, used almost 80 tungstens for both ends of exchnager, Beautiful welds each and every time, never have to pull your Tungsten out of the torch to use this stuff.
It matters. I use the tungsten sharpener, but I replace the factory blade with a diamond blade. Made each point to needle sharpness - dipped in water, never taken to "cherry". Made heavy wall pressure welds in power houses till I retired. 100% x-ray.
In Trade School we were told NEVER use a drill to sharpen the tungsten. You wnt the grain running with the length of the tungsten not swirling around it. Seemingly it will effect the arc because horizontal grain causes very poor electron flow. This guy used a drill for all. Seems easier but we were told not to use a drill for a reason I am guessing
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Yes the grind matters. You do not want it to be ground helically as this will cause arc wander. During arc on periods there is an electron flow going down the tungsten to the work piece. If your tungsten is not longitudinally grained/polished and has a helical grain you will get arc wander. This is caused by the electron flow being scattered off of the tip of the tungsten due to the circumferential graining redirecting some of the electrons. Always grain/polish longitudinally. It is recommended that you leave a very small flat spot on the end of your tungsten grind. The test showed this quite well actually. The nice grained 2nd tungsten with the flat focused the arc the best.
You rock thanks for the input
Great information. Thank you.
I was reading the manual for the Miller Syncrowave 200 I just bought a couple days ago, right before I watched this vid.
Miller recommends a small flat tip on the end of TIG electrodes; stating the size of the flat is relative to the amperage setting. Unfortunately, they don't give specifics, as in, 0.0xx dia for xx amps.
I have no idea if it's correct or not, but my father taught me exactly what you are saying here. Make sure the cut lines go toward the point.
This is really interesting, being a novice in the world of TiG my focus is still on the basics. Love the channel, keep up the great content!
OK...found this channel by accident...but I like it and subscribed...but let me tell you why..
I've been fabricating race cars, off road toys and doing special effects for the movies for oh say 30 years...And got pretty good at it...BUT you will never hear me say "I know it all..."
actually love to watch other good guys to see how they do their fab and guess what? I always learn a new thing or two, or a better way of doing something...and I've had guys with years in the business learn a thing or two from me...so bring it on!
Thanks for taking the time do do these videos!
I usually use the bench grinder or belt sander, but I was taught to point the tungsten downward in the same direction the grinder/sander is moving. I think depending on the results you are trying to achieve, there is also alittle wiggle room with the angle you hold the tungsten to the grinder.
Well, if you check 'Miller info', you find that you have an inverse relationship between extreme taper and amps, so that the higher the amps, the lower angle you should use (to preserve tip life). HOWEVER, as you kinda showed here, sharper angles lead to PRECISION spots...so it comes down to what you are trying to do...22-gauge sheet lap-welds? severe angle (say, 15-20 degrees). 1/8" wall stainless tubing? robust angle at say, 25-28 degrees. The 'grind finish' is actually important, too...the finish being smoother will actually lead to tighter heat zones and 'more distinguished' heat bands...vs rough finish giving a more dispersed heat band...I personally haven't got the CNC or 'steady hand' enough to see if it impacts the actual weld 'smoothness' or not, but my first guess would be 'it should'.
Dont matter how i sharpen my tungsten, i find after 5 minutes i have dipped and have to do it again anyways.
Takes me about 28 seconds...lol
same here HAHA
5 minutes! good for you I'm still at the 5 to 15 second before dipping. LOL, it's a learning curve that looks like a cliff to climb.
LOL!!! Dip your tip club.. I think TFS needs a tshirt for guys like us....
@@lincolnbelt7350 I'd like to apply for membership, please. The 3-5 seconds tier for me!
You should try the diamond wheel inside of a Drill Doctor drill bit sharpener, just as good as a tungsten grinder.
Try a gauge block to ensure the same gap between the point of the tungsten and the coupon. Also make sure you have the same tungsten stick out. Interesting video.
Try grinding one with a twist or spiral and another with the scratches running straight down the tungsten and one with a smooth finish . Then test it up close to a wall to simulate welding the bottom of a hole. You'll find the straight down and the smooth will weld the bottom only and the twist will arc against the side wall also .
Diamond 4" bench grinder wheel,1" wide..had it for years and still works like no other
I completely think it matters. I use a 4" flat diamond grinding wheel from Harbor Freight. $8. Only used to sharpen tungsten. I use it in the field, in the shop, and at home. On a angle grinder with the tungsten in a drill. I get a perfect finish on the tungsten with minimal dust. 👍🏼
I use a diamond wheel from a chainsaw sharpening kit that harbor freight sales. It's on my 4.5" angle grinder and chuck my tungsten in my drill takes about 3 seconds. I also made a small guide block that attaches to the handle so I'm the grinds are always consistent
like to see ur set up post a pic or vid about it thoug
Yeah, really
I have a chain saw sharpening tool, I want to set it up to take advantage of the angle setting gage to get as consistent as possible grinds. Has anyone done this?
I'm better at sharpening tungsten than welding haha
I tig welded for the first time the other day and I got to say, I got really good at sharpening tungsten.
😂🤣 started welding. Ended up sharpening the tungsten.
As Justin says.. keep practicing
Same
Just bought my first tig welder. Lincoln 200. I suck at welding getting good at sharpening
I use a flap disk 120 or 220 grit and hit it with red and green Scotch-Brite pad after it sharp when you give it a good polish and weld's super great for me.
Zack Thomas nice idea, ill try that out tomorrow 😁
yes thats what I do, i use the belt sander at 120grit with a blue belt then the scotchbright to polish the tip and it works great in stainless using the smaller cups.
Doesn't that introduce aluminum oxide impurities from the scotch brite? I've never heard of this technique. I will try it.
The angles are no constant so the arcs will not be same.
SuperFunk you are correct and they all were different lengths from the material
I was thinking the same thing. Should have tried to get the same angle and even do a couple with the same tool but different angles
Isn't it a rule of thumb that the "cone" height you grind should be 3x the diameter? Also the grind marks should be parallel to the tungsten rod - otherwise you introduce turbulence into the plasma.
@@luv2ski80007 how would you sharpen your tungsten to make it parallel? Any particular angle you like? Just getting started out
@@kamilzarzycki3866 what I've always done (it's kind of sketchy) but hold the tungsten up and down, and then at like a 60° angle push it into the belt sander or grindstone, be gentle or else it'll jump out of and stab into your hands..
Point the end that is being sharped toward the direction of rotation of the sharpener. Doing so will avoid foreign matter inclusion in the tungsten. It will also aid in several other ways. Don't allow the tungsten to get very hot while sharpening in order to avoid oxidation. Follow up with a type of buffing wheel to polish the grind marks out of the tungsten. Something like a scotch bright wheel should do the trick.
I was wondering about that, actually. Other videos have told me to always make the striations go towards the tip, too, but in this video he did the opposite. Thanks for explaining why it's important!
Excellent video! Setting the tungsten to a consistent depth would improve your testing consistency. It appears that cone angle makes the largest difference. Thanks again for a great comparison.
Why do you always sharpen with the wheel or disk rotation towards the end and not away from the end of the tungsten? I'm looking forward to using my new Yeswelder 250 a/c d/c Tig welder. I am a beginner in Florida. 61 years old
i cringed waiting on the flap wheel to blow up
I actually prefer not to let the tungsten get red hot while sharpening, dip it in water to keep it cool since it isn't being shielded by argon while out of the torch. I usually just use a belt sander and my hands or a tungsten vice when it gets short.
Very interesting test. A very long time ago I was shown how to TIG and there were just two ways to do it. All were done on the grinding wheel and one way was down the length of the tungsten and the other was roll the tungsten with horizontal lines. I'm not a professional welder by any means and have had absolutely NO formal training but I found you video so interesting as you brought up ideas I have never dreamed of. Thanks for the video and the ideas.
I have a Machine Shop with a Syncrowave 250/250. So I'm not a full time TIG guy. I sharpen mine on a belt sander which is different from your disc sander. I found 2 things doing that.
1) Finer belt is better but not too fine that you over stress the Tungsten. 2) the slower I spin the Tungsten in my hand drill, the better. It seems to have a nicer arc profile with the sanding lines more vertical.
Use a silicon carbide wheel on the bench grinder. It makes an enormous difference. Also dress it properly with a diamond dresser. I don't even bother with those hand held tungsten sharpeners. I can make perfect sharp points every time by hand. Use a pin vise to hold the tungsten if it gets too short.
One thing I experienced when having my work xrayed was tungsten ending up in the weld. It was because I was sharpening it to a fine point. The cure was to touch it with the grinder on the tip after sharpening. In my garage I have been using the grinding wheel and it seems to work fine.
When I started TIG back in the days of dinosaurs we used the disc method (option 4).
Specialized tools as a tungsten sharpener seem overkill for spot welding nickel packages. Guess in industrial use time concerns and productivity come into play in the equation.
It could be worth while spending 30 sec.+ on sjarpening if you use it for occasional sharpening.
If you end up having to redo it 40 times a day, that extra 20 minutes spent can match 100 completed spots or items in my case.
That would equate to some 10% loss of productivity.
Great video. I was thinking about buying a tungsten sharpener, but as a hobbyist with low skill level, I think I can get a sharp point with what I have. Thanks
#1...Please take a breath between sentences.. Thanks.........;-)
I use a dedicated bench grinder with a finer wheel, tungsten chucked up in a 3/8" drill. Then get rid of the grinder marks with a 2" diameter 320 grit 3M roloc wheel on a 90 degree air grinder, with the hand drill stuck on the bench, stationary...
The extremely sharp tungsten come out POLISHED....VERY smooth and consistent arc...no wandering at all...I also check with a 10X jewelers loupe in very good light for grinder marks...The grinder marks have a tendency to make the arc wander with my machine...(A 1989 Linde 250HF Square Wave with a Bernard water cooler, HW20 torch.)
I use a 4" diamond coated wheel on an angle grinder in place of a flap disk. Can't really comment on quality of arc difference but it sharpens to a point easier and doesn't burn into the disc. I've used my fingers to spin it as well as a drill, I prefer finger spinning it because it seems my drills all end up with an oblong uneven cone shape. (Drill chucks are probably making it wobble)
Kurtis Johnson
I use this method also but use a cordless drill
Dedicated nickel sintered diamond disk always. Too cheap now to pretend old school is better.
I also use this method with a drill
if you polish the tungsten on a finer grit to remove the grinding pattern(scratches), it doesn't matter. Another great option is to finish it in chemical sharpening to refine the point and remove the grinding patern. Sodium nitrate or nitrite in a small dish with a torch heated tip, just dip in in for a second or two and the sirface finish will be beautiful. The reaction is very hot, so the red hot tip with quickly go white hot as the reaction strips metal from the surface of the electrode. You can do the entire process in the chem, but it takes a minute. I use it for refinishing or repointing and I love it. Fast, consistent and very effective.
I'm purely a hobbyist but i use the diamond wheels from HarborFright on one of there 3" Mini Tool Grinder. It makes a great little dedicated setup that fit on the
welding cart.
Pic please.
After sharpening (grinding down the rod -length wise) I was taught to take them one by one and blunt tip them all barely just to knock the needle point off. IDEALLY as close to flat as possible.
When I initially paid attention to the difference in tip shape and taper angle- I have found that the inner arc tends to form an electrical arc column to the substrate the diameter of the blunt on the tip, which doesn't wander as it does when it has a fine point.
1/16 & 3/32 tungstens butt welding 18 - 20 ga sheet metal. (Silicon grinding wheel ONLY FOR TUNGSTEN NOTHING ELSE!)
Unless I am going to run high amperage I run a long taper, - if I am welding something thicker or if I am correcting a previous sloppy mig with to much weld wire I run higher amperages I make the taper shorter so the rod will handle the heat better without eroding.
I've used different grinders, though I prefer the rough and fine wheel...rough for when your tip breaks off and you need to bring it back to a nice point, fine to keep the point so you have a better and fine focus, and I always held it in my hand (too hot to hold, too hot of a grind, gonna break and damage that tungsten) and in an almost horizontal position. As for the conical angle, it always depended on the thickness of the metal I was working with and what result I wanted....finer the point, finer the weld, and kept a smooth edge, no rough.
Way I see it, everyone is different, it's what your end result is that really matters!
So many opinions here but kinda easy to tell good ideas. Couple comments I didn't see though: I was told years ago that the convex angle given by a "properly" held piece of tungsten against a bench grinder is best. No extreme tip point except perhaps with low amperage as it just blows off the tip of the tungsten anyway. But my real comment I didn't see below is I've used the drill method a lot and still do, but if you hold the drill as it is shown then you will have to replace the drill chuck from time to time as the grinding dust gets in the chuck itself and it's so hot the dust embeds in the steel of the chuck so cleaning it won't really fix it. Especially after its done it a time or two. I've also had it thrown back at me or shatter and pieces expelled so it can be dangerous... I still do it but carefully. Last, and I saw it in several comments, if you heat the tungsten to the point you did in the video, you damaged it if not destroyed it. I keep mine cool by just dipping it in water as I'm grinding it. You have no inert gas to protect it on a grinder. And I've used every method you've shown plus some.
I wish you did a more consistent test and hope you do in the future because I liked this as a concept. Length, angle, shape of grind, direction of grind marks, sharp tip or .020 or something else. Even the type of inert gas effects the shape of the arc and therefore the weld puddle.... there are a lot of details that were left out of this that a serious or professional GTAW welder would like and need to know. The information is out there and easy to find, but if you do a video of all of it in one place, all of us will want to see it and could benefit from it.
Thanks for taking the time you did with this... great beginning to a subject that could be a series itself.
does it make a difference how you sharpen a tungsten? Yes. Does it really matter how you sharpen ? No, any medium skilled welder can work around the minute differences.
Been welding for years and i just use the tool that have available at that moment. How i sharpened my tungsten has never been the source of a bad weld.
mike dierickx I decided to stay off the comments on this vid just because it's a no win situation for anyone arguing. However, your comment is definitely one I agree with fully, and would like to say thanks. It's straight forward.
I agree. I've sharpened the tungsten so many thousands of times and I've never found any issue - Sometimes I pay a little more attention when the job is more sensitive - welding stainless is one instance - and you need to avoid contamination....in those cases I'm just careful to keep the tungsten cool during sharpening. I've always kept the grind pointing along tungsten for final grind.
Often I'll rough grind the tungsten if I need to shape it a fair bit, like when its new or I've touched the tungsten to the work and there's a glob of steel on it. But in the end, think of how dirty the tungsten gets after its done a few inches of weld. If its not too blunt, it still does its job fairly consistently. The grind just needs to be as good as that most of the time.
Yes as long as you finish any radial sharpening with some parallel sharpening you'll be fine. I've never used a drill bit just turned the tungsten in my hand and it's always been highly uniform that way.
exactly this
Yes, definitely needs a follow up. I would love to see the different ways of cutting the tungsten to smaller sizes. Sometimes when I break them, under a magnifier there are hairline vertical cracks.
When I get the opportunity I normally sharpen all my tungstens with a blow torch. Pointing down, blowing down on the tungsten and spinning it at the same time, will make the tungsten last forever (a very long time, as long as you don't dip). I got taught this way from a fella that had been in the trade 40 years.
Ok so what's a blow torch ?
In order to make this an accurate test the angle and length of the grind would need to be the same on all tungstens, as well as, the distance from the tip to the work piece. Some fixturing should be used to eliminate these variables and make the setup repeatable accurate. It was a good first attempt and brings into play the control variables. Like the angle of the grind. You could setup another test grinding the tips with the same method but, changing the length of the angle to show it's arc characteristics.
I have been sharpening carbide tooling for the woodworking industry since 1973. I have dozens of diamond wheels that are to worn out to use on the tool and cutter grinder. I put one on my bench grinder that is dedicated to sharpening tungstens for tig welding. I've been using that same wore out wheel for about 8 years. My main business is making hydraulic cylinder components and welding broke of fittings
back on cylinders
I use a harbor Freight $10 diamond disc chucked into my drill press, the tungstens are chucked into hand drill , works great!
I use a belt sander with the tip pointed down, and a nice slow rotation to get a fine grain pattern. It takes a little longer but I get a nice tight cone and a controllable puddle. I use the same method for aluminum but i blunt the tip slightly, this is only on my inverter machine. I get almost the same arc characteristics as I do with ferrous metals.
my best results were using a 24 grit belt on a 6*48" belt sander. I ground on the idler wheel with the tungsten held at a slight angle and spun with a cordless drill. The angle and consistent speed of the spin allowed me to get scratches almost straight down to the point and with 24 grit, they were deep and sharp enough that the arc would really jump off the tip. Grinding on the idler gave the point a bit of curve rather than a straight cone, I'm not sure if that helped but the combo worked nice.
One more thing, I think the 24 grit was aggressive enough that it would grind fast without making the tip glow too much. It certainly didn't create as much heat as a grinding wheel.
The format of your test was one of the better ones I've seen. That being said, in order to do a fair comparison, you need to remove some of the variables. The two biggest determining factors in arc quality are sharpening angle and arc length. Perhaps for your next test you could fabricate a jig to make sure you're always holding the tungsten at the same angle while sharpening (you could fab that up easily). Then use a micrometer to assure you have constant arc length across all tests.
Here's a follow-up idea. Once you decide on a grinding method you like best, use that method to grind a bunch of tungsten, but this time vary the grind angle for each one. That would be a great experiment! Thanks for your videos!
+Bryan Martin I have some better tests in mind to eliminate the variables. I'm going to get pretty involved in this topic in the next episode for sure.
With a bench grinder mount it with the grinder base/foot against a wall with the power switch facing upwards... this orientates the wheel to rotate away from you, so no dig ins can happen when you want a long point and IMHO keeps the wolfram cooler.
Dont spin wolfram fast with the drill you only need to rotate it slowly as it keeps the cone shape more concentric(just ask any wood turner about a bouncing the chisel on a out of shape blank)and the grind marks will be straight in line.
I sharpen on a bench grinder but with the rotation away from the point. The helical pattern makes the puddle swirl a bit. Kind of hard to explain how, but it makes it easier than if you had a smooth point
Great work Justin!!
How about trying to polish a tungsten and try a balled tungsten too?
Maybe different ways to ball?
We use the grinding m. With a flat disc ( cutting disc ) , in the field . And in the shop we use A belt Sander . Try to make the grind parallel with the tungsten and cut away from the point ( cut in the same direction the belt is moving ) . That allways works for me . Regards from belguim pipe welder . Big fan thx for the video’s
Best results I've gotten were by using the tail end of my old Craftsman belt sander with the trigger locked on, 80 grit belt, tungsten in the drill as you're doing but set it on slow speed and let it turn as slowly as you can get the drill trigger to turn it (variable speed), run tungsten slowly left to right and back @ about a 20 degree angle over the running belt. The very minimal grinding marks end up being very straight, not swirling down to the point. When I initiate the arc it's almost instantly beginning to make a puddle (even @ low amp settings) and not much wandering of the arc. Also I've tried all types of tungstens and the blue (1.5 - 2.25%) and purple ( 2.35 - 3%) lanthanated ones seem to me to work the best (I might have those colors/percents reversed.) Be Blessed! : )'
Flap disc and drill is what I use, stick the grinder in the vise horizontally. Big difference between a really sharp tungsten with a drill versus a not-so-sharp tungsten with a grinder/hand rotating. I've messed around with angle, length, dirty flap disc vs new flap disc and didn't really notice a difference. 80% of the time, I'm in a position where I can't see the arc close enough to tell a difference. With "critical" welds I follow the "rules" of what is supposed to be done, but still think my torch/feed hand plays a bigger role.
If I weld above 100 amps I use a ceriated Tungsten with a water-cooled gun. I'll sharpen my tip slightly longer than a 3/32 diameter length and polish it out. This is for amperage is up to 250 amps and Welding on a hot plate. The ceriated will hold up under the high amperage required by the tool steels better than the thoriated above 100 amps. Sharpen basically the same and Polished. One thing I noticed is that you don't want your argon to look like it's an umbrella. You want it to go straight down your tip.
Hi there! I use the bench grinder, but on the side of the wheel, very much similar to your using the disc grinder. Is it possible for you to include this method in the comparison? Thanks!
Just watched your video. My understanding of sharpening a tungsten is; the taper should be 1 1/2 times as long as the diameter of the tungsten. The end should be squared before sharpening. Don't sharpen to a needle point, And the grind marks should be inline or slightly spiraled.
I'm no pro, but this consistency has helped me to be consistent.
I usually sharpen mine on a belt sander with 60 or 80 grit and then follow it up with a Scotch-Brite wheel on a bench grinder and even farther polish it out smooth with a cloth polishing wheel. Then I usually use some lacquer thinner or acetone to remove any remaining compound that sticks on to it. But I don't do that very often because I mostly TIG weld using AC because I specialize in aluminum and anodized aluminum. It is kind of pointless to go through all that when as soon as I light up the ark I end up with a ball on the tip. But when I do weld DC for stainless or plain Steel getting a nice sharp point and having the tungsten smooth without any grain has a very nice arc characteristic to it that I like very much.
I use a diamond wheel, tungsten in drill and never let it get red hot.
I was surprised that you allowed the tungsten to get red hot. I personally don't think burning it is a good idea.
@@fjauke Doesn't really do anything. Red heat is still a good 1000C away from the melting point and you use even higher heat on it in normal use. The exact reason that it's tungsten is because it can operate at ridiculous temps
@@whatevernamegoeshere3644
Yes it does get hotter when you weld but it's also shielded with argon when you weld.
Very nice editing. Maybe try some gauge blocks to set all stick outs the same and height to workpiece the same.
careful using sharp tungsten next to your gauge blocks if they're steel ones, tungsten is harder than steel and will scratch it
I found your videos today and subbed. I’m a fabricator and find some useful tips out of your done right vids. I was watching shortening the 8.8 and it brought me here. Still watched just to see. I use a belt sander. Then a fine disk on the opposite side. Works good for me. 36 grit to a 180 grit. Seems good for me
Not the author or anyone commenting has mentioned the safety problem of radioactive dust from sharpening thoriated tungsten electrodes or that breathing the tungsten dust period, is just bad... Though he is showing steel, it is inexcusable to omit the safety aspect if you want to use thoriated electrodes for aluminum.
My thoughts are that the finish on the tungsten should be as smooth as possible and that you don't want to heat the tungsten up so much that it starts glowing. I am currently using an 80 grit bench grinder wheel and a light touch. Since it is wearing too much, I will be replacing it with a 120 grit wheel. I may also put a 240 or 320 grit SiC disc on my bench sander.
I also don't put a ball on mine when welding aluminum, but I do blunt the tip slightly. I also tend to do a longer (smaller included angle) on the tip for lower amperages and a shorter, more blunt tip for higher amperages. I am satisfied with the results which gives me a stable arc.
Overall, great video.
Great video. I would try and line up the tungsten to the grind wheels a little straighter instead of an angled "helical" approach. Also, make sure that the rig to hold the distance off of the material is consistent. Love the experiment though.
I always grind my tungsten with the grinding tool rotating away from the tip (opposite of this video). I prefer using the beltsander for this. I try to avoid using flap discs for sharpening because this tends to snap the tip of when prepping the tungsten for stainless steel welding. Using belt sander gives me needle sharp tungsten every time and the tungsten last longer compared to flap disk. Be aware of this because it can be difficult to see the broken tip of the tungsten without a magnifying lens.
Btw Ive seen this happened on 2.4mm tungsten from two different brands .
305mm drop saw with metal abraisive blade that is rough like sandpaper on the sides (alot of metal abraisive blades around are smooth on the side, wont work with these). Have a tungsten holder and manually and slowly twirl the tungsten so the lines/grind marks run the same direction as the point. Learnt somewhere to run grind marks this direction. Got to be careful as you do grind with hand near the blade but quick when doing many.
Used to do mine "old school" by hand, on a belt sander.. in less time than it takes you to find your drill and chuck the tungsten up.. Just saying, that pratting around time should be included in the total...
really depends how close to hand your drill is i guess. mines usually on the bench where i work so it would be a quick pick up
I generally have a really steep point angle of 60° whilst you are running something like 75°. So my point is still really pointy but it has a blunt angle.
Would be fun and interesting to see if that makes any differemce .
I was tought that a less pointy tungsten is better for penetration and a pointy one like yours just makes tge arc wide which pushes the amperage higher without any added speed or penetration.
i would like to see the test with a fine stone grinder wheel but the tungsten down, not up, down avoids any kick back, but i think it has finer marks on it also,
in then i think it's more in the hands of the welder,
there's a bit of input you asked for,
even the side of the wheel i use some time just to clean up if i dip it
look forward to your input
degree of taper sure made a big difference too, the spiral looked like I figured it would, really spread out arc. Great vid man, thank you. Subscribed.
I used the drill bench grinder method. Then I threw one more step in I grabbed 320 Emery cloth in to smooth out the tip a bit seemed to get the focus tighter. But now I use chem sharp which allows me to get extremely smooth and sharp points all u do is short the tungsten till it is cherry red then stick it in the chem sharp dip it or swirl it to continue the reaction till u get the desired point works great and no contamination from other sources. 😁
I'm an amateur. I have 3 primary tungsten sharpening methods.
1. Drill / Bench grinder with diamond wheel
2. Belt grinder
3. Drill / Bench grinder with alum. oxide wheel
for the life of me, I cannot discern a difference between them. I've even done experimentation and can barely see a difference between grinding radially vs axially, although on aluminum, the arc wanders more when ground radially. On steel and stainless, it's not really apparent to me. I prefer the belt grinder, with a 400 or 600 grit belt. Takes a few seconds to get an almost polished tip. When using the drill, I don't rev it up too much, only 100 rpm or so. I exclusively use 2% lanthanated electrodes in 1/16, 3/32, and very rarely 1/8th diameters. I weld aluminum, steel, and stainless.
I am not a professional, so that being said....
From what I have seen and read grinding marks should be in line with the tungsten body, that is, parallel, not at an angle like the 4th one in your grind samples. Probable best having none if possible.
I grind using either an Harbor Frieght small grinder with a diamond wheel or a Baldor with a diamond wheel: Better results with the Baldor, as expected. I use a drill like you, but run it much slower as to try to reduce the circular diagonal cuts.
I use a green wheel like used to grind carbide for tool bits for machining, seems to work good.
I feel the consistency of the tungsten grinder is the way to go, But being too cheap to buy one I use the bench grinder and drill method. I will be in search of a Diamond wheel for the bench grinder. Love the arc focus of the diamond ground tungsten. It's all about control.
check with Harbor Freight they have some cheap diamond wheels
i use the diamond wheels from HF (item#69658 ) on one of there 3" Mini Tool Grinder. It makes a great little dedicated setup that fit on the welding cart.
Yes, that is the same HF one on my bench as well.
I use the tungsten sharpner you used. But i stick the tungsten in a drill and go straight in the sharpner and lift off and repeat till its sharp. I would never let it get cherry like that.
Why would heating the tungsten while sharpening be an issue? It gets many times hotter while actually welding.
oxidization while sharpening no gas is present
When you let it get cherry red while sharpening all the properties of the cake mix migrate to the tip and evaporate and you end up with pure tungsten. Quick hits on a diamond wheel has always worked good for me.
Theball Player it's an issue because there is no shielding gas around it.
is this true? someone science tell us
Try sharpening them 180 degrees from the direction you where pointing the end. If the point gets caught by the grinder and it belt it will break the tungsten/tear the belt. Also if you hold them by hand they may shoot into your leg if the tip gets caught. Always sharpen anything with the end facing the rotational direction of the tool.
i bench grind and dip in water to cool , i get my point like a needle . the other guys sharpen on the side of the bg wheel ,it come out looking like a wood screw
silentraven37 !
Thats rediculous. Everyone knows sharpening on the side of the wheel is only used by underwater wood welders.
I use a HF multipurpose electric sharpener and small cordless drill, both dedicated to tungsten. Works great.
I use a belt sander, then wire wheel to smooth it out, but I blunt the tip. That way the arc has a little flatter surface area to form the cone and not wonder. I'm betting if you have the same grind one to a point and one with the point blunted flat you will get a better arc and penetration. Looks like in the video the arc cone is formed off the side of the tip of the cone not just the tip
You need to grind them all AT THE SAME TAPER, if you don't they arc will behave differently. So re-do the grinds a bit more precisely to match the tig grinder taper and see how they perfom.
I use a bench grinder 99% of the time.
If it has to be dead nuts perfect text-book, irreplaceable, family heirloom, one of a kind, super tiny, "You have only one shot, so don't mess up!!", I have a Dremel that I clamp to the table, and a few special pieces of wood as a jig to grind the tungsten just right.
I use 2% Thoriated (red) for pipe welding. Hazardous if inhaled, but it can be sharpened many more times before becoming to brittle to tolerate. I've been told that sharpening grooves should go in the direction of the tip, slightly blunted at end to avoid tungsten inclusions, and I choose diamond rotary bits for sharpening to reduce the color change in this video, by keeping lower temperatures in the process for longevity of use. I've always stayed with a tip similar to the appearances of a #2 pencil, as opposed to a golf pencil. 1/16, 3/32, & 1/8 for applications depending of root, fill, & cap. I'm interested to see if your tests verify my teachings. Thank you for showing the why & how it's best.
I'm merely just another simple pipe welder on nuclear powered submarine overhaul, always a student, always looking for the best ways to improve myself, & skilled craftsmanship.
been tig welding pipe for over 30 years I use a 4" tiger paw works great won't change
Use a diamond wheel and grind longitudinally and polish the tungsten with a very fine grit polishing wheel and put the tungsten against the bottom side of the polishing wheel so the tungsten doesn't jamb into the wheel and break the tip off or worse. The way you grind a tungsten has the greatest effect on how well you weld. The rougher the surface of the tungsten the more the shielding gas will be disrupted causing the weld area to possibly be contaminated.
It does, and so does the way you grind them to get them to a point...so when you grind turn the tungsten sideways with the point to your left, twist clockwise when sharpening and it makes the grain change. It'll push most of the contamination away from the tip of the tungsten. it'll change the way the electrons flow from the tungsten itself. Sounds odd but it will change. Also 2% thoriated is the only way to go when tig welding.
For what it is worth, I use a Harbor Freight 1" belt sander and a drill. I hold the tungsten so the belt is running away from the point to prevent a dig in. I try hard to keep the tungsten in line with the belt to keep the scratches straight to the point.
The initial test results are directly related to the sharpness of the grind. The 100 amp test seem to favor the diamond sharpened one. This makes me want to ask: What is the correct angle to grind them? Also, I have lately tried to sharpen mine with less of a sharp point because I think I dip way more when I have a really sharp point.
I use one of those expensive things to sharpen it and I prefer to have the electrode angle around 31º (usually weld between 280-500 amp). I get the same result every time, it takes 1-3 seconds to do it. Oh and I do it by the book, grind it like a cone.
Sharper electrode = slightly more penetration in case someone want to know. Too much, become clumsy. Too little and you cover a smaller area and it can be inconvenient.
So many debates about this where I used to work.... Greatly appreciate the video!
I think for a better comparison you should use the same grit media on all the methods you used in the video. I would recommend 60- 80 grit media. I personally use a bench grinder with a 80 grit green grinding wheel.
When you powered up your welder I expected it to say "Good morning, Michael. Where are we going today?" lol
I was expecting it to say "Subscribe", I may be watching too much This Old Tony. haha
Momp, Good one!
i thought i was the only one who did tests like this in the shop, cool video for sure.
I use a belt sander to get them somewhere close and to take any burning of the edges then I use a properly set up tungsten grinder made by ultima-tig which uses a 100mm wheel with a cutting fluid all held internally it’s honestly fantastic super crisp points they’re expensive to buy but it is so worth it especially when I’m tig welding unprepped zintec all day
I just hand sharpen on a bench grinder with a bit more of a taper. I generally just use a 2.4 Lanthanated though it also depends on amperage required etc
I have few bench grinders, one is dedicated do sharpening tungstens. I have Green "tungsten dedicated" disc on one side and very hard wire brush on second. First I sharpen normally, making cone with some small sharpening traces, then I use a brush but in opposite direction - from tungsten's body to cone's tip. Gives perfect surface on whole cone. No "wrinkles", even if watched under magnifying glass. Does it matter? For thin sheet metal apparently YES, for welding thin wall pipes/ports into thin wall containers - YES. Smaller Heat Affected Zone, smaller risk of burning a hole. For 1mm and thicker, LESS critical. For -things thicker than 3mm, may affect on penetration?
Don't let the tungsten get so hot while you grind them.
The grinding groove should all be in the same direction.
The angle should be exactly the same.
Also get some pre-grinded tungsten to compare.
We order our tungsten pre-sharpened at a 45° angle when welding titanium.
The primary reason for this is to make sure there is close to no tungsten chipping off and ending up in the welds causing a lot of welds not passing the x-rays.
the using a brand new/dedicated tool for grinding is especially important with thoriated tungsten because it leaves radioactive dust on anything you use on it
Use a belt type sander and I was taught to grind vertically towards the tip the way the arc will flow.
I would like to see them all have same exact details. Like arc length good point on all of them and same or at least similar angled points
Or instead of points all slightly flattened points
depends on the coarseness of the actual abrasives and the high speed of tungsten rotation, slow the drill and they will really get better, or you could use a felt polishing mop and cutting compound and polish it up, for special jobs, after removing the wax.
ya, but depending on type of weld, you want your grind marks as straight up and down electrode and fine as possible..... for absolute best of course. the spirally grinds make a wandering arc sometimes.
I use both fine point tip tungsten rods and ball/round tip all depends on how precise the job needs to be and what type of metal I am working on
chem sharp is butchers preservative, Sodum Nitrite, Produces a superior point, like a chemically sharpened fish hook, Only issue is that when using it a lot, you will burn through a lot of Tungsten. I have used a whole box in a single day using this stuff welding Inconel tubes in a tube sheet of a large heat exchanger. 4000 tubes, used almost 80 tungstens for both ends of exchnager, Beautiful welds each and every time, never have to pull your Tungsten out of the torch to use this stuff.
I like my tungsten grinder - gets a really sharp point fairly quickly and it is easy and does not put my fingers in any danger.
I use the bench grinder but I use the side of it. This way you can control the grain by how fast you spin the drill
What about grinding it on the side of the bench grinder wheel?
Reverse weldspatter damage stabilisation is on point!
It matters. I use the tungsten sharpener, but I replace the factory blade with a diamond blade. Made each point to needle sharpness - dipped in water, never taken to "cherry". Made heavy wall pressure welds in power houses till I retired. 100% x-ray.
In Trade School we were told NEVER use a drill to sharpen the tungsten.
You wnt the grain running with the length of the tungsten not swirling around it.
Seemingly it will effect the arc because horizontal grain causes very poor electron flow.
This guy used a drill for all.
Seems easier but we were told not to use a drill for a reason I am guessing