TFS: TIG Simple - Does it Matter How You Sharpen Tungsten?
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2017
- The ultimate question... "Does it matter how you sharpen tungsten?" Maybe... In today's TIG Simple episode, Justin the Fabricator investigates different ways to sharpen a tungsten and compares them to one another. Surprisingly, it needs more investigation.
Tell us what you think in the comments below!
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Dont matter how i sharpen my tungsten, i find after 5 minutes i have dipped and have to do it again anyways.
Takes me about 28 seconds...lol
same here HAHA
5 minutes! good for you I'm still at the 5 to 15 second before dipping. LOL, it's a learning curve that looks like a cliff to climb.
LOL!!! Dip your tip club.. I think TFS needs a tshirt for guys like us....
@@lincolnbelt7350 I'd like to apply for membership, please. The 3-5 seconds tier for me!
Yes the grind matters. You do not want it to be ground helically as this will cause arc wander. During arc on periods there is an electron flow going down the tungsten to the work piece. If your tungsten is not longitudinally grained/polished and has a helical grain you will get arc wander. This is caused by the electron flow being scattered off of the tip of the tungsten due to the circumferential graining redirecting some of the electrons. Always grain/polish longitudinally. It is recommended that you leave a very small flat spot on the end of your tungsten grind. The test showed this quite well actually. The nice grained 2nd tungsten with the flat focused the arc the best.
You rock thanks for the input
Great information. Thank you.
I was reading the manual for the Miller Syncrowave 200 I just bought a couple days ago, right before I watched this vid.
Miller recommends a small flat tip on the end of TIG electrodes; stating the size of the flat is relative to the amperage setting. Unfortunately, they don't give specifics, as in, 0.0xx dia for xx amps.
I have no idea if it's correct or not, but my father taught me exactly what you are saying here. Make sure the cut lines go toward the point.
This is really interesting, being a novice in the world of TiG my focus is still on the basics. Love the channel, keep up the great content!
I'm better at sharpening tungsten than welding haha
I tig welded for the first time the other day and I got to say, I got really good at sharpening tungsten.
😂🤣 started welding. Ended up sharpening the tungsten.
As Justin says.. keep practicing
Same
Just bought my first tig welder. Lincoln 200. I suck at welding getting good at sharpening
OK...found this channel by accident...but I like it and subscribed...but let me tell you why..
I've been fabricating race cars, off road toys and doing special effects for the movies for oh say 30 years...And got pretty good at it...BUT you will never hear me say "I know it all..."
actually love to watch other good guys to see how they do their fab and guess what? I always learn a new thing or two, or a better way of doing something...and I've had guys with years in the business learn a thing or two from me...so bring it on!
Thanks for taking the time do do these videos!
I usually use the bench grinder or belt sander, but I was taught to point the tungsten downward in the same direction the grinder/sander is moving. I think depending on the results you are trying to achieve, there is also alittle wiggle room with the angle you hold the tungsten to the grinder.
Well, if you check 'Miller info', you find that you have an inverse relationship between extreme taper and amps, so that the higher the amps, the lower angle you should use (to preserve tip life). HOWEVER, as you kinda showed here, sharper angles lead to PRECISION spots...so it comes down to what you are trying to do...22-gauge sheet lap-welds? severe angle (say, 15-20 degrees). 1/8" wall stainless tubing? robust angle at say, 25-28 degrees. The 'grind finish' is actually important, too...the finish being smoother will actually lead to tighter heat zones and 'more distinguished' heat bands...vs rough finish giving a more dispersed heat band...I personally haven't got the CNC or 'steady hand' enough to see if it impacts the actual weld 'smoothness' or not, but my first guess would be 'it should'.
You should try the diamond wheel inside of a Drill Doctor drill bit sharpener, just as good as a tungsten grinder.
Try a gauge block to ensure the same gap between the point of the tungsten and the coupon. Also make sure you have the same tungsten stick out. Interesting video.
Diamond 4" bench grinder wheel,1" wide..had it for years and still works like no other
The angles are no constant so the arcs will not be same.
SuperFunk you are correct and they all were different lengths from the material
I was thinking the same thing. Should have tried to get the same angle and even do a couple with the same tool but different angles
Isn't it a rule of thumb that the "cone" height you grind should be 3x the diameter? Also the grind marks should be parallel to the tungsten rod - otherwise you introduce turbulence into the plasma.
@@luv2ski80007 how would you sharpen your tungsten to make it parallel? Any particular angle you like? Just getting started out
@@kamilzarzycki3866 what I've always done (it's kind of sketchy) but hold the tungsten up and down, and then at like a 60° angle push it into the belt sander or grindstone, be gentle or else it'll jump out of and stab into your hands..
Try grinding one with a twist or spiral and another with the scratches running straight down the tungsten and one with a smooth finish . Then test it up close to a wall to simulate welding the bottom of a hole. You'll find the straight down and the smooth will weld the bottom only and the twist will arc against the side wall also .
Excellent video! Setting the tungsten to a consistent depth would improve your testing consistency. It appears that cone angle makes the largest difference. Thanks again for a great comparison.
I use a diamond wheel from a chainsaw sharpening kit that harbor freight sales. It's on my 4.5" angle grinder and chuck my tungsten in my drill takes about 3 seconds. I also made a small guide block that attaches to the handle so I'm the grinds are always consistent
like to see ur set up post a pic or vid about it thoug
Yeah, really
I have a chain saw sharpening tool, I want to set it up to take advantage of the angle setting gage to get as consistent as possible grinds. Has anyone done this?
I completely think it matters. I use a 4" flat diamond grinding wheel from Harbor Freight. $8. Only used to sharpen tungsten. I use it in the field, in the shop, and at home. On a angle grinder with the tungsten in a drill. I get a perfect finish on the tungsten with minimal dust. 👍🏼
I use a flap disk 120 or 220 grit and hit it with red and green Scotch-Brite pad after it sharp when you give it a good polish and weld's super great for me.
Zack Thomas nice idea, ill try that out tomorrow 😁
yes thats what I do, i use the belt sander at 120grit with a blue belt then the scotchbright to polish the tip and it works great in stainless using the smaller cups.
Doesn't that introduce aluminum oxide impurities from the scotch brite? I've never heard of this technique. I will try it.
Very interesting test. A very long time ago I was shown how to TIG and there were just two ways to do it. All were done on the grinding wheel and one way was down the length of the tungsten and the other was roll the tungsten with horizontal lines. I'm not a professional welder by any means and have had absolutely NO formal training but I found you video so interesting as you brought up ideas I have never dreamed of. Thanks for the video and the ideas.
degree of taper sure made a big difference too, the spiral looked like I figured it would, really spread out arc. Great vid man, thank you. Subscribed.
Excellent work sir. Enjoy watching the videos!!!!
Great work Justin!!
How about trying to polish a tungsten and try a balled tungsten too?
Maybe different ways to ball?
So many debates about this where I used to work.... Greatly appreciate the video!
Great video, and explanation on the differences.
Yes, definitely needs a follow up. I would love to see the different ways of cutting the tungsten to smaller sizes. Sometimes when I break them, under a magnifier there are hairline vertical cracks.
Very helpful - thanks!
I found your videos today and subbed. I’m a fabricator and find some useful tips out of your done right vids. I was watching shortening the 8.8 and it brought me here. Still watched just to see. I use a belt sander. Then a fine disk on the opposite side. Works good for me. 36 grit to a 180 grit. Seems good for me
Very interesting video. I will learning how to tig weld on my everlast welder soon so very good info to take into consideration.
Great video. I was thinking about buying a tungsten sharpener, but as a hobbyist with low skill level, I think I can get a sharp point with what I have. Thanks
Point the end that is being sharped toward the direction of rotation of the sharpener. Doing so will avoid foreign matter inclusion in the tungsten. It will also aid in several other ways. Don't allow the tungsten to get very hot while sharpening in order to avoid oxidation. Follow up with a type of buffing wheel to polish the grind marks out of the tungsten. Something like a scotch bright wheel should do the trick.
I was wondering about that, actually. Other videos have told me to always make the striations go towards the tip, too, but in this video he did the opposite. Thanks for explaining why it's important!
Ty Negan for the info!
I use a 4" diamond coated wheel on an angle grinder in place of a flap disk. Can't really comment on quality of arc difference but it sharpens to a point easier and doesn't burn into the disc. I've used my fingers to spin it as well as a drill, I prefer finger spinning it because it seems my drills all end up with an oblong uneven cone shape. (Drill chucks are probably making it wobble)
Kurtis Johnson
I use this method also but use a cordless drill
Dedicated nickel sintered diamond disk always. Too cheap now to pretend old school is better.
I also use this method with a drill
Hi there! I use the bench grinder, but on the side of the wheel, very much similar to your using the disc grinder. Is it possible for you to include this method in the comparison? Thanks!
i thought i was the only one who did tests like this in the shop, cool video for sure.
I actually prefer not to let the tungsten get red hot while sharpening, dip it in water to keep it cool since it isn't being shielded by argon while out of the torch. I usually just use a belt sander and my hands or a tungsten vice when it gets short.
When I started TIG back in the days of dinosaurs we used the disc method (option 4).
Specialized tools as a tungsten sharpener seem overkill for spot welding nickel packages. Guess in industrial use time concerns and productivity come into play in the equation.
It could be worth while spending 30 sec.+ on sjarpening if you use it for occasional sharpening.
If you end up having to redo it 40 times a day, that extra 20 minutes spent can match 100 completed spots or items in my case.
That would equate to some 10% loss of productivity.
I just hand sharpen on a bench grinder with a bit more of a taper. I generally just use a 2.4 Lanthanated though it also depends on amperage required etc
I really like your videos. Thank You.
Use a silicon carbide wheel on the bench grinder. It makes an enormous difference. Also dress it properly with a diamond dresser. I don't even bother with those hand held tungsten sharpeners. I can make perfect sharp points every time by hand. Use a pin vise to hold the tungsten if it gets too short.
Curious to see what it would be like finely sharpened and then polished up using actual metal polish, I remember seeing a video of this a while ago but no results were posted.
One thing I experienced when having my work xrayed was tungsten ending up in the weld. It was because I was sharpening it to a fine point. The cure was to touch it with the grinder on the tip after sharpening. In my garage I have been using the grinding wheel and it seems to work fine.
Nice video I've started using diamond coated tungsten sharpeners to sharpen mine that fit your average grinder. Works amazing . I order them off ebay
Very nice editing. Maybe try some gauge blocks to set all stick outs the same and height to workpiece the same.
careful using sharp tungsten next to your gauge blocks if they're steel ones, tungsten is harder than steel and will scratch it
I use a belt sander with the tip pointed down, and a nice slow rotation to get a fine grain pattern. It takes a little longer but I get a nice tight cone and a controllable puddle. I use the same method for aluminum but i blunt the tip slightly, this is only on my inverter machine. I get almost the same arc characteristics as I do with ferrous metals.
Great video. I would try and line up the tungsten to the grind wheels a little straighter instead of an angled "helical" approach. Also, make sure that the rig to hold the distance off of the material is consistent. Love the experiment though.
I use a HF multipurpose electric sharpener and small cordless drill, both dedicated to tungsten. Works great.
When you powered up your welder I expected it to say "Good morning, Michael. Where are we going today?" lol
I was expecting it to say "Subscribe", I may be watching too much This Old Tony. haha
Momp, Good one!
I use a harbor Freight $10 diamond disc chucked into my drill press, the tungstens are chucked into hand drill , works great!
I'm purely a hobbyist but i use the diamond wheels from HarborFright on one of there 3" Mini Tool Grinder. It makes a great little dedicated setup that fit on the
welding cart.
Pic please.
In order to make this an accurate test the angle and length of the grind would need to be the same on all tungstens, as well as, the distance from the tip to the work piece. Some fixturing should be used to eliminate these variables and make the setup repeatable accurate. It was a good first attempt and brings into play the control variables. Like the angle of the grind. You could setup another test grinding the tips with the same method but, changing the length of the angle to show it's arc characteristics.
Nice idea sir
good video . Thanks !
What about grinding it on the side of the bench grinder wheel?
been tig welding pipe for over 30 years I use a 4" tiger paw works great won't change
I sharpen on a bench grinder but with the rotation away from the point. The helical pattern makes the puddle swirl a bit. Kind of hard to explain how, but it makes it easier than if you had a smooth point
i would like to see the test with a fine stone grinder wheel but the tungsten down, not up, down avoids any kick back, but i think it has finer marks on it also,
in then i think it's more in the hands of the welder,
there's a bit of input you asked for,
even the side of the wheel i use some time just to clean up if i dip it
look forward to your input
Been trying to learn this all my life
my best results were using a 24 grit belt on a 6*48" belt sander. I ground on the idler wheel with the tungsten held at a slight angle and spun with a cordless drill. The angle and consistent speed of the spin allowed me to get scratches almost straight down to the point and with 24 grit, they were deep and sharp enough that the arc would really jump off the tip. Grinding on the idler gave the point a bit of curve rather than a straight cone, I'm not sure if that helped but the combo worked nice.
One more thing, I think the 24 grit was aggressive enough that it would grind fast without making the tip glow too much. It certainly didn't create as much heat as a grinding wheel.
Howdy! I was curious which type and size of tungsten you use for 4130?
Reverse weldspatter damage stabilisation is on point!
After sharpening (grinding down the rod -length wise) I was taught to take them one by one and blunt tip them all barely just to knock the needle point off. IDEALLY as close to flat as possible.
When I initially paid attention to the difference in tip shape and taper angle- I have found that the inner arc tends to form an electrical arc column to the substrate the diameter of the blunt on the tip, which doesn't wander as it does when it has a fine point.
1/16 & 3/32 tungstens butt welding 18 - 20 ga sheet metal. (Silicon grinding wheel ONLY FOR TUNGSTEN NOTHING ELSE!)
Unless I am going to run high amperage I run a long taper, - if I am welding something thicker or if I am correcting a previous sloppy mig with to much weld wire I run higher amperages I make the taper shorter so the rod will handle the heat better without eroding.
I use both fine point tip tungsten rods and ball/round tip all depends on how precise the job needs to be and what type of metal I am working on
I use a diamond wheel, tungsten in drill and never let it get red hot.
I was surprised that you allowed the tungsten to get red hot. I personally don't think burning it is a good idea.
@@fjauke Doesn't really do anything. Red heat is still a good 1000C away from the melting point and you use even higher heat on it in normal use. The exact reason that it's tungsten is because it can operate at ridiculous temps
@@whatevernamegoeshere3644
Yes it does get hotter when you weld but it's also shielded with argon when you weld.
My belt sander/disk has always been My Fave !
diamond wheel on a dremel, grind away towards tip is what I was taught - opposite to video, very good control and portable
I've used different grinders, though I prefer the rough and fine wheel...rough for when your tip breaks off and you need to bring it back to a nice point, fine to keep the point so you have a better and fine focus, and I always held it in my hand (too hot to hold, too hot of a grind, gonna break and damage that tungsten) and in an almost horizontal position. As for the conical angle, it always depended on the thickness of the metal I was working with and what result I wanted....finer the point, finer the weld, and kept a smooth edge, no rough.
Way I see it, everyone is different, it's what your end result is that really matters!
the using a brand new/dedicated tool for grinding is especially important with thoriated tungsten because it leaves radioactive dust on anything you use on it
I generally have a really steep point angle of 60° whilst you are running something like 75°. So my point is still really pointy but it has a blunt angle.
Would be fun and interesting to see if that makes any differemce .
I was tought that a less pointy tungsten is better for penetration and a pointy one like yours just makes tge arc wide which pushes the amperage higher without any added speed or penetration.
Flap disc on the bench grinder. Works great.
I have been sharpening carbide tooling for the woodworking industry since 1973. I have dozens of diamond wheels that are to worn out to use on the tool and cutter grinder. I put one on my bench grinder that is dedicated to sharpening tungstens for tig welding. I've been using that same wore out wheel for about 8 years. My main business is making hydraulic cylinder components and welding broke of fittings
back on cylinders
Great video I make my W sharp just like the 2nd grinder. the way it's cone is long and very thin where it makes a point is the best for me. I use a drill for the W and another drill for a ceramic cylinder. don't know what it's made up of but WORKS well. I bought it off eBay from China.
With a bench grinder mount it with the grinder base/foot against a wall with the power switch facing upwards... this orientates the wheel to rotate away from you, so no dig ins can happen when you want a long point and IMHO keeps the wolfram cooler.
Dont spin wolfram fast with the drill you only need to rotate it slowly as it keeps the cone shape more concentric(just ask any wood turner about a bouncing the chisel on a out of shape blank)and the grind marks will be straight in line.
We use the grinding m. With a flat disc ( cutting disc ) , in the field . And in the shop we use A belt Sander . Try to make the grind parallel with the tungsten and cut away from the point ( cut in the same direction the belt is moving ) . That allways works for me . Regards from belguim pipe welder . Big fan thx for the video’s
The format of your test was one of the better ones I've seen. That being said, in order to do a fair comparison, you need to remove some of the variables. The two biggest determining factors in arc quality are sharpening angle and arc length. Perhaps for your next test you could fabricate a jig to make sure you're always holding the tungsten at the same angle while sharpening (you could fab that up easily). Then use a micrometer to assure you have constant arc length across all tests.
Here's a follow-up idea. Once you decide on a grinding method you like best, use that method to grind a bunch of tungsten, but this time vary the grind angle for each one. That would be a great experiment! Thanks for your videos!
+Bryan Martin I have some better tests in mind to eliminate the variables. I'm going to get pretty involved in this topic in the next episode for sure.
The initial test results are directly related to the sharpness of the grind. The 100 amp test seem to favor the diamond sharpened one. This makes me want to ask: What is the correct angle to grind them? Also, I have lately tried to sharpen mine with less of a sharp point because I think I dip way more when I have a really sharp point.
luckily enough we have an ultima-tig at work, so pretty easy to get consistent sharpens
i bench grind and dip in water to cool , i get my point like a needle . the other guys sharpen on the side of the bg wheel ,it come out looking like a wood screw
silentraven37 !
Thats rediculous. Everyone knows sharpening on the side of the wheel is only used by underwater wood welders.
Hi, If I grind one time red tungsten is it very dangerous for heath? I read in internet that it is radioactive tunsgten and it is not good for health and please tell me it will be dangerous for one time?
Thanks,
thank you young man
depends on the coarseness of the actual abrasives and the high speed of tungsten rotation, slow the drill and they will really get better, or you could use a felt polishing mop and cutting compound and polish it up, for special jobs, after removing the wax.
I use the bench grinder but I use the side of it. This way you can control the grain by how fast you spin the drill
I'm a newbie welding TIG with my everlast welder. I probably wouldn't notice how the tungsten was sharpened.
I use the dremel plastic shield with a notch cutout on it for the tungsten. I stick the tungsten in a drill and spin slowly. How high the wheel is set to determines the sharpened angle.
I use the tungsten sharpner you used. But i stick the tungsten in a drill and go straight in the sharpner and lift off and repeat till its sharp. I would never let it get cherry like that.
Why would heating the tungsten while sharpening be an issue? It gets many times hotter while actually welding.
oxidization while sharpening no gas is present
When you let it get cherry red while sharpening all the properties of the cake mix migrate to the tip and evaporate and you end up with pure tungsten. Quick hits on a diamond wheel has always worked good for me.
Theball Player it's an issue because there is no shielding gas around it.
is this true? someone science tell us
How do you know exactly what the angle is while grinding, is there a method for that or a jig?
I’ve found that having my upper body nice and stiff, and straight. It makes it easier, but then. I occasionally get pains in my knees and it takes me a bit to stand back up 😂😂😂. Also occasionally I’ll use a clamp, clamp it somewhere on the frame of the welding table and use that as a support for my arm, thankfully I can weld with both hands aswell which has made it a lot quicker for me
I like my tungsten grinder - gets a really sharp point fairly quickly and it is easy and does not put my fingers in any danger.
I usually sharpen mine on a belt sander with 60 or 80 grit and then follow it up with a Scotch-Brite wheel on a bench grinder and even farther polish it out smooth with a cloth polishing wheel. Then I usually use some lacquer thinner or acetone to remove any remaining compound that sticks on to it. But I don't do that very often because I mostly TIG weld using AC because I specialize in aluminum and anodized aluminum. It is kind of pointless to go through all that when as soon as I light up the ark I end up with a ball on the tip. But when I do weld DC for stainless or plain Steel getting a nice sharp point and having the tungsten smooth without any grain has a very nice arc characteristic to it that I like very much.
Hey Justin, I am sure that you're familiar with the TungstenMate; can your share your thoughts on that? Worth it? Avoid it? Seems Cool? Snake Oil?
305mm drop saw with metal abraisive blade that is rough like sandpaper on the sides (alot of metal abraisive blades around are smooth on the side, wont work with these). Have a tungsten holder and manually and slowly twirl the tungsten so the lines/grind marks run the same direction as the point. Learnt somewhere to run grind marks this direction. Got to be careful as you do grind with hand near the blade but quick when doing many.
I'd say do a video testing the same bead, and how well they do, and time wise. It would seem that if you could get a solid bead out of the 5 second disc grinder sharpen, then it would be the way to go even if it has a tiny arc wander....
I usually sharpen on a fine grit diamond wheel, or Chemsharp....Perfectly smooth taper, no grind marks.
I would like to see them all have same exact details. Like arc length good point on all of them and same or at least similar angled points
Or instead of points all slightly flattened points
Use a belt type sander and I was taught to grind vertically towards the tip the way the arc will flow.
I have a Machine Shop with a Syncrowave 250/250. So I'm not a full time TIG guy. I sharpen mine on a belt sander which is different from your disc sander. I found 2 things doing that.
1) Finer belt is better but not too fine that you over stress the Tungsten. 2) the slower I spin the Tungsten in my hand drill, the better. It seems to have a nicer arc profile with the sanding lines more vertical.
Never heard of tungsten grinders so checked ebay - prices hahaha. Don't seem to be available in the UK which is fine as I only ever used linisher to sharpen.
not matter how,but its the shape at the end ,the outcome of the grinding angle u use...
how about the chem sharp? what do you think of that stuff?
Do you recommend cleaning the tungsten after sharpening?
My ESAB Rebel also has a spot timer.
Is there any difference between grinding up or down the tungsten rod.
ya, but depending on type of weld, you want your grind marks as straight up and down electrode and fine as possible..... for absolute best of course. the spirally grinds make a wandering arc sometimes.
Need identical inclusive angles, identical gap between the point and the work, identical sharpness for a fair test. I would like to see a chemical sharpening demo. Thanks for your videos.