Tri-ang Hornby R.351 EM2 Electric Locomotive "Electra' in BR Blue and BR Green
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- Опубликовано: 15 дек 2017
- Look at the Tri-ang Hornby R.351 EM2 Electric Locomotive in BR Blue (c1970-71) and the earlier Tri-ang Railways R.351 EM2 Electric Locomotive BR Green (c1961-65) with a variety of rolling stock. And a brief look at the set up of a Power Mast for the catenary. There are on great still images by steamdriver12 of EM1 / EM2 on the Woodhead line if you follow this link www.flickr.com/photos/6031922... All dates are approximate. Music Source / Royalty free Apple Loops from Garageband
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I was given one of these em2 locos as a lad, i had a diesel based train set but of course it started with Flying Scotsman and the chuff chuff tender. Anyway i remember having a little bit of dislike of em2 and tried to swap it with a friend for a blue brush 2 . He didnt want it either! But after a while i suddenly became very attached to it and incidentally mine was electra also! This video has really taken me back and i think i may look around for one for nostalgia.
Excellent Oscar. First time I’ve seen someone explain the catenary system. Didn’t know about the insulated side. Although I’ve got an AL1 , she only ever ran from the rail. What a brilliant system .
Its a great system theres the potential to run two of these electrics on the same line with different controllers. Or one of the electrics and a locomotive running from the rails both with different controllers. Should one be brave enough! Oscar
Another great video. Thanks again for making and sharing these
Thanks Carl. Glad your enjoying them. Oscar
Another great video, very interesting stuff, what a elegant idea that roof switch is!
Thanks. I love the switch in the roof. Oscar
Thanks Oscar, superb, I've always love the Triang overhead power system so innovative.
Thanks, Paul, it was a great idea. It's such a shame that Hornby has not improved upon it since the 60s.
Oscar
Nice set up and well described too. I'm just about to re-instate my EM2s and set it all up again after being in storage for some years, seeing your layout has inspired me to "crack on" with it and get something running again. Thanks for sharing.
That sounds like a very exciting project George, getting the catenary working for me was a great deal of fun and very satisfying, enjoyed every minute of it and still do. With this sort of system, there are always going to be adjustments to be made. Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed the video.Oscar
Great Video Oscar,
Really enjoy seeing stock from my youth running so well on a Layout what was my dream to have,
Keep them coming 👍
Thanks Mick.
Oscar
The electra ... My next locomotive ,, again great video
I'd been curious about the catenary on your layout, very well done.
There's such a charm to the Triang stuff, and the EM2s are an excellent example.
Thanks. Tri-ang had a comprehensive range of interesting toys/models. EM2s have a very distinctive look I don't think there was anything on the railways quite like it in the UK at that time. It was a bold decision by Tri-ang to chose this as a toy/model. It was never a popular model and was expensive even without the catenary to run it. Oscar
The "Highwayman" is without doubt my favourite Tri-ang train set... and Ive just bought one thanks for sharing !!
Hi totally agree with you. Sadly I don't have the set. Just the contents that make it up. I'm very pleased to hear that you have one.
Very jealous.
Oscar
I could watch running sessions on the layout for hours. Such smooth operation.
Thanks Andrew. Oscar
Hi Oscar, You certainly know your stuff mate, excellent and informative video and a joy to watch too, thanks for sharing and well done! Cheers George
Hi George, glad you are finding it useful. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
Oscar
Electra is a real beauty! And (as usual with you Oscar) very pristine- it compares rather well with one more recent attempt at an EM2! Keep up the great work.
Thanks chorlton4 I shall have a lookout for some images of the more recent models of EM2.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
Another excellent and informative video......I like the new video format.....Thanks for sharing.
Thanks David. Really glad your enjoying the new videos. Oscar
Love this!
Nicely explained Oscar Thank you
Thanks Paul, glad you found it interesting.
Oscar
Brilliant Oscar, you must have the patience of a saint to do all that, and it looks as if the overhead makes for smoother running , cheers ,,Mark
Definitely not a saint. Just enjoy what I do, its relaxing. Oscar
I reallly enjoy the historic information you provide.
I was fascinated by the catenary. Triang had the em2 in a set called the highwayman.
It had a green em2 with 3 maroon mk1s with an oval of track plus the he catenary for it.
Previous to the single wire catenary Triang had a different system of catenary where there wees two wires and droppers.
Thank you Steven. I try to give just a brief overview of the items. There is always more that could be said! the history of some of these items is quite complicated. And some of the information available can be contradictory. These toys were made, sold and enjoyed at a time when record keeping is not what it is today. The Highwayman is terrific looking set. Sadly I don't one. Phase one with the pressed steel/tin plated sections started in 1959 from what I've read it was not considered to be satisfactory and was revised swiftly. Phase two Catenary with the single wire was from around 1961 onwards. Both systems were very optimistic! It was only a toy but does say something that both systems survive to this day and can still be used! There are some great images of both ranges at this terrific site. www.tri-ang.co.uk/aohspant.html
Oscar
My god these engines hold there value. I have the green EM2 but not the blue. Cannot believe the price they are going for. Excellent show as usual Oscar, enjoying the series and the history. Keep well.
Thank you Steven. Probably better not to look at the prices and just enjoy the model and have a bit fun with it! Oscar
Great video Oscar , nice to see how it actually works .....Peter
Thanks Peter. Hopefully there will be more to follow shortly. Oscar
Oscar an excellent video yet again & very interesting information about the catenary.
Keep these coming it's nice to watch featured vids on selected locomotives & stock.
In the future I would like to see a video featuring the Battle space range as I am sure you have them in your collection I know i do.
Best wishes for Christmas & new year Oscar.
Best wishes for the season. Unfortunately Santa has failed to bring me any of the Battle space range. It would be great to see a video of your Battle space collection online. Glad your enjoying the videos. Oscar
Do love the woodhead units
There great. They have a very distinctive look. Oscar
Nice to see two rare models of older British electric locomotives.
These are possibly my favorite models from Tri-ang.
Oscar
Another classic video Oscar. Judging from the comments here a lot of people don't really know about these models. I bought my set in Great Yarmouth in 1965. It cost exactly 5 Pounds which was a full weeks wages then. (How much is a full weeks wages today?) Unfortunately I sold that as a perfect condition boxed set in the mid 70's. I have been able to replace it ( boxed) but with broken pantographs. The only surprise was the insulated side markings, I don't recall that but I never had any issues with running my original set. Thank you for this video Oscar. Cheers, David.
Thanks. Wow! £5 it seems like a bargain (But a weeks wages!), that would barely get two masts these days. I saw a Highway Man set go for £375 recently. The pantographs are £35 each if you can find them. Oscar
I couldn't justify that expense for a model that basically just sits in a display cabinet. David.
hi oscar I had one in 1960/70s i wish i still had it today mate I all so had the overhead gantries to on my old layout in the 1970s with my 3 E3001/81s which I still have on my current layout and they are still going strong after 50 years of srecive with me i got they in 1969 in beatties of Southgate where I come from originally sadly beatties are on longer with as 😭😭😭 I do miss at model shop the model shop in Belfast has gone to we no longer have any reil model shops in the Belfast area now I now order from England mate 👍clive
Good morning Clive it's great to hear you have your original E0001/81 after all that time. do you still have catenary? Our excellent local model shop went about three years ago now. They're also used to be a couple of traders with stalls fairly regularly on the local Sunday market with great railways stuff. Sadly they seem to have gone now as well. It seems to be the way of things, unfortunately. Apart from rising retail rents and business rates and the decline perhaps of the hobby in general, I've heard that the big brands haven't helped by imposing impossible terms and condition with pricing structures that work against the small shops.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
Hi oscar I no longer have the tri-ang hornby ohle i now use the dapol/home made ohle mate clive
Tri-ang were really going for it with their overhead electric models. A very forward thinking, ambitious company back then.
Definitely ambitious with there overhead range. Trying to offer something different from other toy manufacturers. Keeping up to date with what was happening with the electrification of the railways in the UK at that time. Oscar
The Dutch National Railways(NS) bought seven loco's from British Rail (Diana, Electra, Juno, Pandora, Ariadne, Aurora and Minerva). They were in service as series NS 1501 - 1507 from 1970 until 1986. Three of them are preserved. One in Holland and two in England. They were beautiful loco's in the grey and yellow livery (NS). In H0 scale by Elotrains: ruclips.net/video/O7jG2TCwJUk/видео.html Greetz from Holland, Onno.
Hi, Onno thanks for the link. It's a very striking model in this livery. I would love to have seen these great locomotives in operation for real in any livery. There are some great archive clips on youtube. ruclips.net/video/UuJ-urypCa0/видео.html
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
Oscar
Like the setup you have there. If you look at the EM2 locomotive with a magnifying glass the moulded builder's plate is perfectly legible, an impressive level of detailing even by modern standards. I'm sure you know, but would be worth touching on, that it was possible to so wire a layout such that you coul run a track powered and O/H powered locomotive together. Makes for interesting trains such as a failed steam locomotive being "rescued" by an electric. Not so convincing the other way around, pantographus up on a "failure":-) Keep them coming.
Thanks Andrew, there is indeed a lot of detail on this model for its age. I have shown in a number of videos locomotive on the same track utilising the O/H and track pick up. As you say, I have not really gone into detail about how this is done. But it's on the list of things to cover at some point. Many thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
Oscar
Great video mate I subed they look they close to our nsw 46.class
Just had a look at the nsw 46.class, great looking locomotive. They do look similar.
Thanks for subscribing and taking the time to point out the nsw 46.class, its much appreciated.
Oscar
reveiw on the Auscision 46.class ruclips.net/video/tOYbIBNOs_0/видео.html
If you want I have done a review a model on one Nd try also havrcover head pick up
Hi. I have the green EM2 in CKD and the box. It was originally supplied with two caternary masts and bases which I have. What I am lacking are the assembly instructions for completeness. A photocopy would do if you know of anyone who has them. I also have 3001 and the Victorian Railways R257. Interesting that these latter two have the switch on the roof rather than the concealed Electra.
Hi Nick, yes the roof of R.257 could have had a bit more thought. Have a look at this link www.tri-ang.co.uk/OO%20Latest/CKDinstEM2.htm it has the instructions R.388 CKD kit click on the various parts it opens up larger views of the sheet. Sound like you have fine collection.
Stay safe.
Oscar
Thanks for the information on the Em2s and the catenary. You might consider easing the 4 screws underneath the bogie of the blue one . I did this on mine as a teenager and it runs quieter. But I bought a Brush type 2 in a set some years ago . All mint but the motor sounded like yours . I seem to remember I found a part was broken on the bogie that made it sound rough. I think it was stopping the meshing of the gears. The part missing wasn't found . Just a thought . Cheers Graham
This motor bogie is of poor design! Which is unusual of Tri-ang. The growling noise that comes from the motor is a result of movement of the armature, moving laterally along its axis in the end it will catch on the pole pieces and stop altogether. This is caused I think by the failure of the plastic barring on the armature (S.5451) this sits on the magnets for the magnadhesion. The part has a small hoop which should rest on the magnet. This hoop is semi flexible when the hoop becomes miss shaped or brakes or rots as a result of over oiling and use of an aggressive lubricant. This I think allows the armature to move. This is very evident at low speed/power. As speed increases it evens out a little but still wobbles. So it appears to get smoother with more speed/power. The hoops were designed to keep the worms at a constant height so the worm meshes with gear on the axels of the drive wheels. The drive wheels sits against a shoulder so they remain in a constant position when the on the track. The bottom plate with the four screws holds the magnets for the magnadhesion and the Pole Piece's in place and stops the wheels falling out when you lift the model up. If this is too slack the pole piece's drop down on the armature. The bottom plate should have been metal and the armature should have been mounted on thrust bearings like their other motor bogies. This would hold the armature in place and stop the pole piece's from dropping with flex in the bottom plate. This is only a theory of course. Its always annoying when you have a fine looking model but the motor lets it down. I think the best thing to do if you have one the runs fine, is leave it alone and only lubricate if really needed and then use a lubricant that is not aggressive to plastics. Today we have much better lubricants available especially as lots of small/fine gearing is now all synthetic of some sort. When this was designed synthetic parts where cutting edge. But no thought was really given on what should be used to keep them moving smoothly. The oils in use at the time were great on metal gearing. Thanks Graham it good to hear other points of view. Oscar
Hi Graham and Oscar, I once "googled" noisy motors, and an article appeared which suggested that the armature in question is "out of balance". I have an R553 in CP red livery, it is in nice condition but was noisy mid range speed, I removed the armature and checked it for balance with a spin on two metal rules, lo and behold it wobbled. So after careful removal of some metal from the armature, the wobble diminished and so did the mid range noise. So perhaps a combination of bearing wear plus un-true armatures makes extra noise.
Regards, Cliff.
Thats a great thought Cliff. This could also explain why some X03/4 motors run smoother than other, even when they appear to be in perfect condition. Do you think there is the possibility that the windings my not be equal on each segment? These were mass produced items. Friday armatures! Oscar
This could be a question for Sam (Sam's Trains), he is getting rather good with Tri-ang engines. : )
Regards, Cliff.
Hi Oscar, Looking back at this video, it appears to me that the overhead catenary wire is joined at all of the points.. Does this mean that both locos must be drawing power from the same controller?
I had never thought about it before, but if all of the wires are connected at the points.Then power would flow through to any siding that had the "inside rail" (that in many cases) would also be live, because it was not isolated by a point blade? Only some points on a layout would have the "inside rail" isolated by a point blade.. Many must/would be connected to the permanent rail that did not go through the blades?
Would this mean, that there could only be one overhead circuit on a layout?
Hi Oscar do the growly motors as its running due to the knurled wheels on the running loco drive part or is it just the noisy motor ?
Its so good to hear this sound as it has sstruck a series of good memories of when my mum (rip) bought me a blue vic rail triang double ender around either 1979 or 1980 and remeber the sound of it as it sounded almost identical to these ones.
I remember how happy i was and sad too as i asked for a lima 44 class australian engine for christmas but got the blue vic rail one and like i said still happy to get something similar to what i liked but love them now mums gone as it rekindled some good memories of her so i bought a few (6 lol) to commemorate her passing.
Thanks again for the great info you supply is as we do appreciate the videos you put out to help us.
Cheers from John in Australia.
Good morning John it's great to hear the videos bring back great memories I'm glad you are enjoying them. The motor bogie on these EM2's can be quite noisy due to wear/play on the armature bearings. The blue version in this video is not as smooth as the green one, Tri-ang used the same mechanism in the Class 31 and the 37 and both of these also have the characteristic growly motors. They sound like models with knurled wheels. Oddly the models like your double-ended Diesel have far smoother running and better-designed motors but get their impressive sound from the knurled wheels.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment it's hugely apricated.
Take care
Oscar, another ace video. Again, I had the green Electra in the ‘70s but was never impressed with its running, good to see it working well here. I did have the full catenary set and wired up my layout , a real pig in all the tunnels and mountain on 4x10 layout. Did briefly have two trains running on the same track but it blew my mind so i stopped that. Flogged it on ebay the other year and got a Eurostar instead, because when all’s said and done the Eectra is simply the ugliest locomotive ever made for BR IMHO!
It's difficult to control two trains on the same track especially on a small layout. It was a great system but to take advantage you would need a layout at least the size of a squash court.
Oscar
Excellent. With overhead power and track power, how many trains can you have running on your layout simultaneously? Or, because the overhead power current passes back down through the track, is it not possible to have a track-powered loco and an overhead-powered loco both running simultaneously on the same track?
On a layout of this size its not really practical having two locomotives running on the same line. But yes you could have one electric locomotive and steam/diesel on the same circuit. There are two circuits so optionally four locomotives independent of each other. It's also possible to have two elections on the same line independent of each other collecting from the overhead and both using opposite rails for the return path. This does cause conflict with models that take power from the track only.
Thanks for watching.
Oscar
Hi Oscar,
Why is the green EM2 so much quieter and smoother running? What did they change with the motor construction between the two models? Thanks.
Good morning Lisa I'm not sure there was a change in construction between the two motor bogies but one of these models has a very worn bearings.
Thanks for watching take care.
Oscar
I see your using the old tri-ang railway controller mine was Silver. :)
Does yours have the reassuring hum, just so you know its switched on??!! Oscar
Oscar Paisley yes
Very informative, but do be aware that touching freshly cleaned bare metal with bare fingers afectivley coates the part with finger oil and reduces electrical continuity, wich further leads to tarnishing of bright metal parts. Just thought i would point that out for informations sake. Thanks for great vids
Thanks for the advice Tasha, glad you enjoyed it. Oscar
Em1's were mixed traffic Em2's were passenger traffic, all seven Em 2' locos were sold to dutch railways in the late 60's and continued in service longer than there EM1 class 76 counterparts ,
Two have been brought back to the uk 27000 electra and ariadne which is now in the manchester musium of science and industry
And em1 26020 is at the NRM york,
One or two EM2 locos are preserved in holland
Not a bad survival rate for such a small class
Again that's great information, and as you say a pretty good survival rate.
Oscar
can triang electrics run via the standard track pickup
Yes, there is a switch on the roof. Pickup can be selected from track or overhead. Oscar
do they run on modern track
can the overhead system work with modern track
In the early 70s, they made mast bases that fitted system 6 track (modern track). These were only made for a very short time so are even harder to find than the ones you see in use on my layout. Hornby resurrected the catenary system again in the late 80s and into the early 90s, these were made for modern track. But also seems to be even rarer than the old stuff. And I think the masts were of very poor quality very bendy! Oscar
i may have to invest in dapols vesion
Nice presentation. The model does look smarter in green- never really suited the blue livery. At the time these locos were on the market, I had a Trix model railway with the EM1 BoBo loco which was good apart from the pantographs which were very poor compared with the Tri-ang pantographs shown in your video (they had a flexible wire to the collector-not very attractive).
What an opportunity lost for Triang and later Triang/Hornby then Hornby Railways for not pursuing the catenary and especially the EM2’s. Their look captured the real thing. What a pity!!!
I have quite a thing for the Tri-ang catenary as can probably tell. I did seem a shame it was dropped in the early 70s Definitely, lost potential. When it did reappear in the late 80s for a short time it was a very poor interpretation of what had gone before. And the opportunity to produce something more sophisticated to satisfy the scale modeller seems to have been totally missed. Just look what has been available in the rest of Europe. We've had ongoing development of overhead electrification on the railways in the UK for quite some time!
Thanks again Andrew for watching and taking the time to comment.
Oscar
I do indeed remember the ‘80’s effort for the overhead by Hornby! Those chunky beige masts, totally out of scale. Dapol and Pecorino have at least released UK type masts nowadays.