I am just nine minutes in and your thoughts are resonating with me. This turning around/discovery of reality/mystery is what I have been living for the last two years. When something as simple as eating an apple takes on a new reality as well as a deep mystery it's a good indication that I am either insane or my perception of reality has radically changed. (Or both). Either way it has been fun and super interesting.
Wow. If synchronicity doesn't exist then I don't know what this is. This is the exact conversation I'm having with myself right now, literally. Jesus is the one that I identify with, not the church. Jesus was preaching Theosis the whole way along. Love is the principle that will unfold God within us, and Jesus was the one who gave up everything for this. Also, I'm reading matthieu pageau's "The Language of Creation" and he really makes clear the symbolic representation of everything that occurs in the OT. What this means for the specific doctrines, he doesn't say too much, but it is clear that the propositional content is NOT the most important part of the bible.
This was an excellent discussion, and I couldn’t help but think of Ivan Illich’s work on “scarcity” and on the way we define ourselves according to it seems to correlate paradoxically with industrialization. As we gain wealth, we are more likely to see the world as filled with scarcity…a very strange tendency that has bled into Christianity. Anyway, just wanted to say this exchange was wonderful!
Beautiful! In a sense, many of the other climbs on this channel have had a 'cleaner' air to them ; what immediately jumps to mind is David Schindler's profoundly articulate, musical, poetical simplicity. Or perhaps more flow-esque, fiery, dancing conversations - such as those with Christopher Mastropietro. As someone who has been following all your conversations from the start, this conversation was refreshing in a completely unique way. The level of intimacy you have with Aaron, allows for... a certain degree of just playfully 'rolling about in the mud' at times in the conversation. Even your mannerisms change dramatically! 😂Refreshing! I hope you do not shy away from continuing to post such conversations, as messy as they may be at times. The messiness of it all, the wrestling in the mud is precisely their virtue; it grounds out the overall character of the channel. ( no puns intended, but the symbolic phenomenology is inescapable ) And perhaps not by coincidence ( symbolism happens ) - a perfect end on the note of the heavenly city, the kingdom of God which descends down from heaven! To reaffirm your ending, just as Christ says "Love God, and Love your neighbour" so too does he echo the same remark in telling us to seek the kingdom of God, and His righteousness. The redemptive scope of Christ's body should indeed not merely be limited to the institution, but eventually, to all of the earth. Your ongoing conversations with your family members are an IMMENSE and irreplacable blessing. Please, don't hold back on sharing them! Have a great rest of the year, God bless!
I appreciate your videos and benefit from listening in as I am in a similar situation. As for the “why has thou forsaken me” line… it was pointed out to me that that is the beginning of Psalm 22. If you haven’t read it, I think you’d find the rest of it interesting. It definitely adds context. I’d love to hear your thoughts if you check it out.
Yes Psalm 22 helps a great deal. For me, it deepens the sense of inexplicable paradox of being Finite-Transcendence in a way which can relate my being to Being in Christ
Hi Ken, I'm very happy to have discovered your channel recently. I came across you through one of your first conversations with D.C. Schindler and John Vervaeke and I have been seeing you pop up on occasion ever since. I greatly enjoy and appreciate your ability to listen, to speak, and to flow in conversation. I am excited to watch more of your content and I was wondering if you'd be interested to be interviewed over on my channel? I would love to learn more about your personal journey and insights! Sincerely, Lucas
Thank you gentlemen what a rich conversation! I am just struggling to understand how what you are proposing is not perennialism? It has all the marks of it at least in the way you talked about all of it pointing in the same direction? Also very curious about your “joining the church” musings, what struck me about it is this it appears to be a classic case of transformational experience, after all if you assume that the truth is ontological the experience will change you and so no amount of speculation will reveal it to you! You gotta dive! At least that’s what I did!
Thank you for engaging, my friend. While not being an expert, I would not take a label of perennialism as I understand Christ to be the True Way without parallel. Much more to say there, but I hope it gets the gist. In terms of the church, this has a great deal to do with reservations related to personal experience/trauma first, followed by reservations in legitimacy of claims to authority on the part of the various institutions presenting themselves as "The Church."
@@climbingmt.sophia you welcome friend I appreciate you taking note. I have been marinating in a similar question more from the Polish Catholic place and trying to sieve the Awesome truth of Logos and incarnation from the tradition, and for now defaulted to the sacraments as a source of participatory wisdom “in God” . Yet I feel ambivalent about the clergy and it’s structure and their role as ‘mediators’. Anyhow be well and thank you for your wonderful work it does make a difference knowing that you are climbing also!
I was a UU for a few years. It was an excellent landing place coming out of Fundy Christian. I was strong atheist for years but have softened my position considerably. Still no longer believe in a personal, thinking-agent god but I now see the sacred in everything, everyone, every non thing. My relationship to God is imaginal and I'm finding that's a way to be in communion while also recognizing that I'm touching the sacred within and without at the same time. Sounds dumb with words but the practice is powerful. Just a slight change in perception and perspective was all I needed. I may try the UU again. I really need physical community more than ever. The UU church could be an amazing ally for people in this online community. Take care 💙✌🏼
Unitarian Universalism has worked for me. We've made some friends and you can believe what you want. They're still people with people drama, but they've been decent so far. (I do wonder at their staying power due to the lack of coherence thing. But I'm giving it a chance.)
51:17 re: reconstituting sin as a positive feedback system. Pete Rollins: symptoms (angels) guiding you about your diseases. Satan: bringer of light…😬🫢
![Does God Exist? William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens - Full Debate [HD]](/img/1.gif)
I am just nine minutes in and your thoughts are resonating with me. This turning around/discovery of reality/mystery is what I have been living for the last two years. When something as simple as eating an apple takes on a new reality as well as a deep mystery it's a good indication that I am either insane or my perception of reality has radically changed. (Or both). Either way it has been fun and super interesting.
Wow. If synchronicity doesn't exist then I don't know what this is. This is the exact conversation I'm having with myself right now, literally. Jesus is the one that I identify with, not the church. Jesus was preaching Theosis the whole way along. Love is the principle that will unfold God within us, and Jesus was the one who gave up everything for this.
Also, I'm reading matthieu pageau's "The Language of Creation" and he really makes clear the symbolic representation of everything that occurs in the OT. What this means for the specific doctrines, he doesn't say too much, but it is clear that the propositional content is NOT the most important part of the bible.
Really enjoyed this, Kyle.
This was an excellent discussion, and I couldn’t help but think of Ivan Illich’s work on “scarcity” and on the way we define ourselves according to it seems to correlate paradoxically with industrialization. As we gain wealth, we are more likely to see the world as filled with scarcity…a very strange tendency that has bled into Christianity. Anyway, just wanted to say this exchange was wonderful!
Beautiful! In a sense, many of the other climbs on this channel have had a 'cleaner' air to them ; what immediately jumps to mind is David Schindler's profoundly articulate, musical, poetical simplicity. Or perhaps more flow-esque, fiery, dancing conversations - such as those with Christopher Mastropietro.
As someone who has been following all your conversations from the start, this conversation was refreshing in a completely unique way. The level of intimacy you have with Aaron, allows for... a certain degree of just playfully 'rolling about in the mud' at times in the conversation. Even your mannerisms change dramatically! 😂Refreshing! I hope you do not shy away from continuing to post such conversations, as messy as they may be at times. The messiness of it all, the wrestling in the mud is precisely their virtue; it grounds out the overall character of the channel. ( no puns intended, but the symbolic phenomenology is inescapable )
And perhaps not by coincidence ( symbolism happens ) - a perfect end on the note of the heavenly city, the kingdom of God which descends down from heaven! To reaffirm your ending, just as Christ says "Love God, and Love your neighbour" so too does he echo the same remark in telling us to seek the kingdom of God, and His righteousness. The redemptive scope of Christ's body should indeed not merely be limited to the institution, but eventually, to all of the earth.
Your ongoing conversations with your family members are an IMMENSE and irreplacable blessing. Please, don't hold back on sharing them!
Have a great rest of the year, God bless!
I appreciate your videos and benefit from listening in as I am in a similar situation.
As for the “why has thou forsaken me” line… it was pointed out to me that that is the beginning of Psalm 22. If you haven’t read it, I think you’d find the rest of it interesting. It definitely adds context.
I’d love to hear your thoughts if you check it out.
Yes Psalm 22 helps a great deal. For me, it deepens the sense of inexplicable paradox of being Finite-Transcendence in a way which can relate my being to Being in Christ
Pageau's response to your question in the aftermath of that conversation with John was very helpful.
1:08:48 incarnation.
It has the reality of the universally particular God-Man.
You guys get into it some at the 1:09:00 minute mark.
57:40 lots of thoughts on this.
Tradition and apocalypse
3:00 for the Hell of it
Hi Ken,
I'm very happy to have discovered your channel recently. I came across you through one of your first conversations with D.C. Schindler and John Vervaeke and I have been seeing you pop up on occasion ever since. I greatly enjoy and appreciate your ability to listen, to speak, and to flow in conversation. I am excited to watch more of your content and I was wondering if you'd be interested to be interviewed over on my channel? I would love to learn more about your personal journey and insights!
Sincerely,
Lucas
I would love that Lucas, please email me: kenneth.w.lowry@gmail.com
The work of Dr Rudolf Steiner may help to expand your understanding of the Christ. Thank you for your discussion.
Thank you gentlemen what a rich conversation! I am just struggling to understand how what you are proposing is not perennialism? It has all the marks of it at least in the way you talked about all of it pointing in the same direction? Also very curious about your “joining the church” musings, what struck me about it is this it appears to be a classic case of transformational experience, after all if you assume that the truth is ontological the experience will change you and so no amount of speculation will reveal it to you! You gotta dive! At least that’s what I did!
Thank you for engaging, my friend.
While not being an expert, I would not take a label of perennialism as I understand Christ to be the True Way without parallel. Much more to say there, but I hope it gets the gist.
In terms of the church, this has a great deal to do with reservations related to personal experience/trauma first, followed by reservations in legitimacy of claims to authority on the part of the various institutions presenting themselves as "The Church."
@@climbingmt.sophia you welcome friend
I appreciate you taking note. I have been marinating in a similar question more from the Polish Catholic place and trying to sieve the Awesome truth of Logos and incarnation from the tradition, and for now defaulted to the sacraments as a source of participatory wisdom “in God” .
Yet I feel ambivalent about the clergy and it’s structure and their role as ‘mediators’. Anyhow be well and thank you for your wonderful work it does make a difference knowing that you are climbing also!
Bro it’s not that complicated
Kierkegaard really challenged my thinking about Christ as a God/man being as offensive and possible
Great conversation. Good to hear Aaron’s take on this stuff again. Hope you guys are well!!-Cameron
Ken have you heard of the book the Fall by Steve Taylor? I’d love to chat to you sometime
I was a UU for a few years. It was an excellent landing place coming out of Fundy Christian. I was strong atheist for years but have softened my position considerably. Still no longer believe in a personal, thinking-agent god but I now see the sacred in everything, everyone, every non thing. My relationship to God is imaginal and I'm finding that's a way to be in communion while also recognizing that I'm touching the sacred within and without at the same time. Sounds dumb with words but the practice is powerful. Just a slight change in perception and perspective was all I needed. I may try the UU again. I really need physical community more than ever. The UU church could be an amazing ally for people in this online community. Take care 💙✌🏼
Unitarian Universalism has worked for me. We've made some friends and you can believe what you want. They're still people with people drama, but they've been decent so far.
(I do wonder at their staying power due to the lack of coherence thing. But I'm giving it a chance.)
All unions require at least one agreed proposition. That's the thing..
51:17 re: reconstituting sin as a positive feedback system.
Pete Rollins: symptoms (angels) guiding you about your diseases.
Satan: bringer of light…😬🫢