You had me up until Ned kills Jon for breaking vows with Ygrette, the last thing his said to his sister was that he’ll protect Jon… that’s probably Ned’s most important vow 😢
Jeor Mormont runs the wall. He decides who needs killing. Ned only does it when he finds someone who went awol and ran from the Watch. If Jeor happened to be there, he would do it.
Ned Stark to Jon Snow: "Next time we meet, we'll talk about your mother." If both Ned and Jon are at Castle Black, Jon finds out his lineage in Season 1 or 2. Whole new ball game.
Not to mention Ned murdering the witness to the White Walkers because he was too lazy to travel back to Castle Black for an interrogation and trial. Ned caused Westeros to be unprepared in the first place.
I don't know about this. There are other ways for things to happen. Eg. Maybe Thoros would have ended up at Castle Black, someone else could have discovered dragon glass, etc
my thoughts exactly... Ned lying just to save his family and himself changes things so he wont be so caught up on being 100% honorable because he had already suffered at the hands of the dishonorable in an unhonorable world.. I think they didnt give him enough credit to learn and adapt at the wall but I also agree he had to die to launch the series into a whole nother stratosphere and to mesmerize the audience with audacity and story!
I think Ned was practical. He didn't believe in them because they been gone for thousands of years, but once Ned arrived to the wall and saw everything that Benjen and Jon did, he would become a believer
Without the dragon, however, the Night King couldn’t have breached the Wall. If Jon wasn’t Lord Commander - because Ned was - then Danerys hadn’t gone beyond the Wall to rescue Jon, no dead dragon and so on. So, following the events as you describe them, a living Ned as Lord Commander leaves the army of the dead stuck permanently north of the Wall. No?
And also no messing with the babies being offered up to the white walkers, March South only started after the incident at Crashers and no longer getting infants
I believe the whites had another way of crossing the wall. I mean they are so many things that could of happened differently what if dany died by assassination ❌ by poison ❌ in the fighting pits before dragon saved her❌ what if Jon died while fighting Karl tanner ❌ what if Jon wasn't revived ❌ what if the wildlings killed him early on❌ they are so many times that Jon or dany could've died which would result in the walkers not getting a dragon so things had to line up perfectly. I think they was another way Ps. I don't think that if someone had to ask George rr Martin if the dragon was the only way for the whites to cross he would say yes
Exactly what I was thinking, and Thorne wouldn’t have been able to kill Jon either, which would make Jon never able to leave the wall and by extension never meet dany
@@Dashawn Oh sure, you are absolutely right. But we’re being asked about a specific thing and you use what’s there. I’m sure the Others will find some way through/round/over the wall but in this scenario it’s what did happen that’s being theorised. But that’s the fun!
@@benethraxThen why couldn't Benjen Stark? He shouls have found the way and warned castle black. For that matter why didn't he ride to the tunnel at castle black and get someine to come out on the north side and tell them about the walkers? Why bother to use the dragon if there is another way?
Ned _always_ followed Jon’s commands, because he knew Jon was his true king. If Ned goes north and they “talk about Jon’s mother” it woulda been a different series altogether. This fan speculation is fun, but pointless.
Upon arriving at the wall Ned would learn about the wight, everyone would be talking about it, kinda a big event that happened. He would almost certainly lead an expedition himself or send a second one, eventually some of the first return with reports of white walkers and eventually Jon would show up and confirm it. Ned can believe it or check for himself, go see Robb who's now Lord of Winterfell, he calls the banners and the entire North, at full strength since they didn't go south, unites against the wildings, wins like stannis did and if Ned chooses to let Wildings through he probably doesn't get killed with the entire Northern army hanging around. Ned sends letters to other lords of Westeros who actually listen this time because Ned's word carries so much weight, and Westeros is more prepared than ever to deal with the White Walkers, the dragons didn't really do anyhthing, in fact without them Walkers probably dont even get past the wall. Bran never becomes the three-eyed raven, and that was supposedly the Night Kings target. Ned going to the wall would have been probably the best thing that could have happened for Westeros. Ned basically had to die just to give the White Walkers a chance of victory.
My idea of what would have happened. Ned talked to the Nights Watch guy, he pledging his loyalty, but needing to get Arya home first. He agrees and the two ride off and eventually meet Robb’s host. Ned talks to Robb and tries to convince him to match home, as the he is safe and the conflict lost. Plus, with Ned taking the black, Robb is needed as Lord of Winterfell. Then Ned rides to the wall, alongside other Northetn men that Robb sent with him. Upon arriving, Ned hangs out for a bit and everything else more or less happens there like it did in the book. Once the remaining ranging party returns, Ned shows concern for Jon’s absence and follows Sir Alister’s lead. Once Jon returns,, Ned trusts what he says, that he was following Half Hand’s orders and they prepare for the battle. Once given a moment to have a private conversation, Jon presses him for the truth about his mother. Ned hesitates and Jon gets angry, saying something about being a bastard, when Med finally breaks and tells him he’s not. Ned then explains everything to him and why it needs to be secret. The battle then goes on just like it had, with Jon going to treat and Stannis showing up. Meanwhile, Jon has a moment to talk to Maester Aemon, at which point he reveals his secret to him, then both being Targaryens. Aemon tells him about House Targaryen and his father, Rhaegar. He tells Jon about his letters with Rhaegar and about the Azor Azhai prophecy. Ned is then put up for and wins the vote to be Lord Commander and he names Jon his Stewart. From there, they start working with Stannis since Winterfell remains in Stark hands. Meanwhile, Bran would eventually sneak out of Winterfell with Hodor to find the Three Eyes Raven. As for the Whitewalkers, Ned is able to rally the north for help fighting the army of the dead and manning the wall alongside the Wildlings. At some point, there is some argument with the Wildlings and Jon gets into the middle of things trying to stop it and is accidentally stabbed and killed. Then, Melisandre performs the ritual and brings him back to life. And things continue on…
Arya wouldn’t have been on that path if Jon hadn’t done all the stuff before. Arya killing the Night King doesn’t change the prophecy, Jon’s path, journey, sacrifice, love and leadership is what put everyone exactly where they needed to be. Because he was the Prince who was Promised. And Hodor….the mvp
Arya needs to be included in this video. If Ned had not died she wouldn’t have ended up following the trajectory her character took leading to the killing of the White Walker King. I do believe the path Snow took was important in getting Arya there also but Arya’s path was just as important to the reason Ned’s death saved everyone from the White Walkers.
No. There isn't really any reason to assume that Ned would be in charge on the wall. Jon didn't become Lord Commander because Ned wasn't there, he became Lord Commander because of Sam's efforts. But even if he did, while it is true that Ned didn't believe in the White Walkers, he wasn't stupid and there is no reason to believe he would ignore the evidence when it was presented to him, which it would be when Sam returned to the wall. Pretty much nobody believed in the White Walkers either until then. It's probable he wouldn't execute Jon. While it is true that he probably would if Jon had actually been a deserter, the reason he wasn't was because he did what he did under orders. Ned is big on honor, true, but not in the same way Stannis was, he didn't take it to the point of insanity. If he was, he would not have hidden Jon in the first place. If it wasn't for Jon Snow, the White Walkers wouldn't have a undead dragon capable of knocking down the wall and the White Walkers would have a much more difficult time entering the Seven Kingdom at all. And if the Seven Kingdoms hadn't been so divided at this point, there is a good chance that there would have been many more defenders at the wall since everyone wasn't busy fighting everyone else or wiped out. Winterfell won due to nothing more than Bran and Arya. It's pretty clear that they were losing at Winterfell until the Night King grabbed the idiot ball and decided to put himself in danger. It really wouldn't have mattered if the Wildlings were all turned to ice zombies or not. It wouldn't have mattered if Daenerys came with her dragons or not. None of that made a difference when the White Walkers attacked Winterfell. Really, the fact that the Night King was an idiot is really what saved Westeros from the White Walkers.
@@ExNihil0 Thank you, but I don't really expect them to be experts in everything and I am overly obsessed with Game of Thrones and even more with the books. Plus the show got far less rational once they ran of books to base it on. Plus in the show, pretty much everything Jon did once the show ran of books did more harm than good.
THANK YOU! What saved the seven kingdoms was shitty writing. Nothing mattered in the end, Arya just had to get close enough to the Night King. I just want GRRM to finish the books at SOME point so that we can be rid of the nonsensical plot as canon. But he probably never will.
@@sohinidutta97 The thing is, it COULD have made sense that Arya unalived the Night King. In the books, the Faceless Men are a religious cult. They worship death and consider the death they cause to be a mercy. To them, the Night King would be an abomination. The Night King doesn't allow the dead to rest. Personally, I would have kept Arya as a member of the cult. I could see them sending Arya to Winterfell specifically to deal with the Night King (or even go en mass). If she then unalived the Night King, it would mean something. She would be Death taking its own back. And I wouldn't have her poison the Freys. The Faceless Men do not pick their own targets. I would have the Starks being forced to agree to give them a pass in order to get them to help fight the Night King. Jon Snow gave a big speech about how they had to put aside their grudges for all mankind, it would have been cool to see him forced to put aside his own. Arya could have an epiphany when she was in the middle of the burning of Kings Landing. She could have realized after seeing all that death that she could no longer serve the god of death. OK, I have thought a lot about this...
You could say that Jon's efforts are not what saves Westeros from the White Walkers since the defense of Winterfell essencially fails only to be saved by Arya killing the Night King. But then again, if Ned is allowed to live and join the Watch, Arya probably returns to Winterfell and certainly doesn't go on her arch to become an assassin to avenge her father's death and therefore there's no one to jump out of nowhere and save the day.
@@briana8088they sorta rushed it. One main reason is they turned a fan favorite character into the true villain. Unfortunately, there were signs of her turning from the very beginning but who doesn’t like a lady with dragons.
@@briana8088 a lot of people didn’t see it coming 😆 I mean, if a girl is okay pouring melted gold on her brother’s head, then yeah, I think we should keep an eye on her
The only problem with this theory is that Ned Stark knew that R+L=JS, so I feel like he would have deferred to him a bit more than you're giving him credit for. Also, the key to the White Walkers getting past the wall was the dragon they captured and in your scenario that would have never happened, so Winterfell would have never been attacked in the first place.
I think Arya was worth mentioning because if Ned hadn’t died like he did, she probably wouldn’t have been bent on revenge, therefore training to become an assassin, therefore killing the night king.
Arya was already training with Syrio Forel. If both Ned and Syrio had survived, she might just have contined her Water Dancer training - it's not as if she used her Faceless skills in that battle. In fact, she might even be better at that time with a sword.
This is the worst take I’ve ever heard. He promised his sister to protect Jon, let the whole world, including his wife think he fathered a bastard just to protect him. He didn’t “admit” to treason, he did it to protect his children. He protected Jon all his life and forsake his honor to protect his children And your take is that Ned would have killed Jon for sleeping with a girl? Lol not a chance. Also, saying that Ned being Lord Commander instead of Jon would be bad is also silly. Yes, Ned didn’t believe in White Walkers, but no one did. But he’s not stupid, Jon would’ve explained to his father exactly what he saw and Ned would definitely believe him and do what needs to be done. This is just an L take all around.
What if Jon Snow is Azor Ahai? What if Bran warged into the Night King at the Battle of the Cave during a vision with the Three Eyed Raven and got stuck as the Night King? Forcing the Three Eyed Raven to warg into Bran’s body before he died and thus why Bran acts like an old man in the later seasons.
I’d argue Jon wouldn’t be on that search party or wouldn’t have broken his vows, in his heart at least, had he known his “father” was waiting for him back at the castle
this video is bs 😮 if Ned had lived i would argue that the realm would have been better prepared for the whitewalkers.. especially with Aemon at the Wall
Wow, that was really good! whoever is idea that was to make this video Bravo!👏🏽 well written, especially the ending and great cutaways with good timing. That was very pleasant, especially with the finale coming on Sunday. That video was like finding one last peanut M&M in the bag when you thought it was empty😂 Made my garbage day better😅 Much love enjoy the weekend 🫡🚛
@@mattp1337 Yeah, but it's a good thing they stopped when they ran out of books. Imagine how terrible it would be if they had the gall to think they could write as well as GRR Martin.
The problem with these types of excersises (if x doesn't happen, y can't happen) is that you need explore why the inciting event doesn't happen. Maybe Stannis didn't leave Kingslanding before Ned's arrival, so Ned has some muscle there to back his move agaisnt Cersei and Stannis can just assume the Iron throne without a war and Ned doesn't have to take the black. Maybe Jaquin Hagar kills Ned on the King's Road (why was he there to begin with?) so Ned never takes the black. There's plenty of scenarios under which the important pieces end up in the right place. If Ned is alive in Witnerfel land there's no War of the Five Kings, there's more men to fight the white walkers and it is easier to organize and defend the North. also, Ned is a far better commander than Jon and probably wouldn't have sent their light cavalry running and screaming right at the opposition that isn't intimidated.
Ned absolutely believed in white walkers, he just thought they were extinct not that they never existed. If he was sent to the Wall and saw a white walker he would have known what it was. The Starks saying is "Winter is Coming" and his family built the wall.
You forgot to mention how Arya being at her father’s execution and grabbed by the brother of the night’s watch set her on the path that made her the Night King killer.
Great video but I think you have a wild misunderstanding of Ned's character. He is wise enough to listen to men he trusts...like Jon and Maester Aemond
Nice video, but I think it's a stretch to assume Ned would not accept the truth of the white walkers. After all, most people in the north didn't actually believe they existed until they saw evidence. And I really doubt Ned would have executed Jon for sleeping with Ygrette. So much of the Watch goes to Mole's Town to "dig for buried treasure". This point is even mentioned in the show and books when Jon confesses that he broke his vows.
12:45 Were people really surprised Ned was killed? I mean he was played by Sean Bean ffs! You know, that person who's famous for dying in almost everything he's in!
Also we can be thankful of Bran who did erm... oh and yeah he was useful at the battle o... Oh but he was instrumental at the meeting of th... Ah who am I kidding, Bran was so undeserving of that throne 😢
"Well, there's another scenario where Ned somehow manages to save his head, returns to Winterfell, and raises an army of Northerners, Rivermen, and Valemen. He could overthrow Joffrey and put Stannis on the throne, making him the second-strongest person in all of Westeros. Stannis, as king, believes in the White Walker threat, and together they could unite the realm to fight against them. Westeros would be safe. As for Daenerys, there are ways to kill dragons, and then King's Landing would be safe too. It would be a happy ending."
This is so crazy. I was just rereading some excerpts of the series on the fan wiki because i keep seeing house of dragon shorts. Now screen crush is throwing back to the war of five kings haha
That is a Wight, not a White Walker, in Castle Black S1E8. White walkers are the icy guys like the night king... the zombies they reanimate are Wights.
*SPOILERS* From the 30 minutes of the 73-minute episode I saw from it which is leaked all over RUclips, it seems like a grade B. I’m not sure there is a big battle in it because I believe I saw the ending. It looks like we get Battle of Gullet in two years. It ends before the battle breaks out. Preston from RedTeamReview is not happy how they handled Daemon. How GRRM is an atheist and it’s your choices that define you. Preston isn’t a fan of how Daemon changes his mind after Alys let’s him touch that weirwood tree. It seems it’s written as if fate dictates their lives. I see it similar to the message Forrest Gump has. That movie is for conservatives since Zemeckis is a conservative and Gump was a veteran who was awarded a lot. But Gump succeeded by random luck and being a good person. But if you’re a strong, liberal woman like Jenny, you die of Hep C or viewers assuming it was AIDS. I personally don’t care as long as Daemon and Rhaenyra are reunited and Daemon is out of Harrenhal ASAP. In Fire & Blood, there was no argument between the two during that time. I think the visions is being used to set up Daemon as a greenseer to explain his missing body. And for Matt to have something to do this season while his character is placed at Harrenhal. I think Daemon’s nature is to go directly to Rhaenyra if he found out Rhaenys was killed. But the writers had to separate Daemon and Rhaenyra to keep Daemon uninvolved in Rook’s Rest. No contact via ravens. Had to make sure Daemon ghosted Rhaenyra for a few episodes. GRRM does have his limitations as an author that the HBO writers had to fill in the blanks on WHY Daemon was at Harrenhal. They have to take a paragraph of writing and turn them into entire seasons while making up their own dialogue and new scenes to pad the running time. I can understand Preston’s complaints but I’m just relieved we got the old Daemon back pledging his loyalty back to Rhaenyra and he can finally get the hell outta Dodge. When fans see that scene, they will cheer and have a huge sigh of relief. Get the f*** outta there, Daemon. It was 6 episodes of tripping balls and getting insulted by a woman and kid. If Daemon was truly a psychopath, he would’ve beheaded Alys and Oscar fast. Daemon is a lot better than what we got this season and he’s the most valuable ally to Rhaenyra in this war. But the writers tried to keep emasculating him like they did to Indiana Jones in Dial of Destiny. As if Sara Hess and Clare Kilner have an axe to grind with Daemon. Another popular white male fan favorite character that Hollywood is trying to destroy to make the woman character look superior. The visions will pay off at the end. They’re going to try to make George’s favorite Targaryen immortal. Daemon and Loki are very similar. Both wanted the throne, are hedonistic, are second sons, sneaky, conniving, selfish, and have a God complex although Loki is technically a god. I heard from RedTeamReview that the shape of the weirwood tree that Daemon touched is the likeness of GRRM’s head. Daemon is going to be a greenseer after he falls into the Gods Eye. Loki has Yggdrasil. Daemon could literally be a tree himself! While Aemond will die and he can’t escape his fate that his sister/lover told him. I do think a few other characters this season were wasted and it wasn’t just Daemon. Otto only got two episodes this season but it explains why he went to Oldtown. The scenes with Alicent were rather pointless too because she also has nothing to do except have her clap cheeks with Criston’s pole. She’s not a dragonrider. Aemond won’t listen to her. Alicent is a dumber version of Cersei. Not a lot of fans are going to like another Rhaenyra and Alicent meetup in the S2 finale. A drastic change to what Alicent really did in F&B. I already see memes for it on Reddit and how Alicent looks so dumb when 5 episodes prior, Alicent was the one telling Rhaenyra in the church that it was too late. Alicent trying to get away from her crazy sons whom she abused as a mother because she wasn’t raised correctly herself and was afraid to think for herself or go against her father’s wishes. Olivia Cooke is a fantastic actress but she’s portraying an idiot character and a big hypocrite. A useless character in war. Aegon was only in it for half the season. Only Rhaenys stood out as she didn’t back down like Aemond did but we only saw her for half the season as well. Corlys scenes with his bastard sons felt rather pointless. Then HBO removed an interesting character in Nettles and merged her into a boring character in Rhaena. All those scenes with Jeyne Arryn were boring! Poor Rhaena. Always moving and no dragon. Well, she’ll get Sheepstealer soon. Ulf the White had all the potential to be this season’s new fan favorite character. But wait when you see the Season 2 finale. What an idiot! No proper etiquette. Dude tried to brag when he flew to KL to show off he claimed a dragon. What if Silverwing was hit by a Scorpion? Ulf and Hugh are going to be hated very quickly by Season 3. Honestly, Silverwing has more personality than some of the human characters. She should be the new fan favorite by being the sweetie pie dragon. She’s probably the smartest dragon which is why she is one of the few dragons to survive this war. Her only mistake was picking Ulf but she was smart enough later on to ditch his dumbass. Go, Silverwing! Our Silver Queen. I dig her devil horns but she’s the most angelic dragon of the group. We got BRYNDEN RIVERS, baby! Rogue Prince. Bloodraven. Breakspear. My Targ trifecta. Looks like the finale is a B episode. Don’t expect some epic battle in it. Overall, I give Season 2 a B to B+. Not as consistent as Season 1 but it was still enjoyable. But unfortunately, another two year wait for Season 3. Daemon was going through a midlife crisis this season but he’s back! Season 2 MVPs: Rhaenys and Meleys Most likable new character: Silverwing
It’s a bit of a mute point when the white walkers clearly should’ve laid waste to half of Westeros but instead got quickly stabbed out of existence. Like they didn’t even fight a single lieutenant in the ‘Long-but actually just a regular length-Night’
- Ned goes beyond the Wall if Mormont commands it - he is the Lord Commander - If even Cersei can be convinced that the White Walkers exist, so could Ned Stark If you only get questioned by a speaking dog, you miss out some questions.
You're half right, for the wrong reason. If Ned had survived his confession and headed north to the Wall, he would have been with Arya, and she would probably have made it back to Winterfell. Arya would not have become an assassin and the final battle would have been very different. All of that assumes that Jaqen didn't fulfill his contract on Ned (that's almost definitely why he was in the caravan in the first place: Littlefinger couldn't risk Ned telling anyone about his treachery, so he hired the Faceless Men).
Jon spent whole seasons trying to convince people that winter was truly coming, that white walkers are real. If Ned had seen them, they'd have believed him outright. Ned's credibility probably ends things before a dragon gets taken by the night king, giving them more ammo.
9:48 Then they'd have to deal with Robb, because the moment he gets word of what happened, he would march up there with an army of thousands to avenge his father and brother.
Ned was never shown to be an idiot. Rob would've been at the Wall constantly seeking advice, not warring with the Lannisters - Winterfell wouldn't have been taken by Theon then the Boltons. AND if presented with proof of the White Walkers, he would've sent word south for more men and supplies to the Wall, and to fortify the North in general. He would've been a better Lord Commander than everyone else too.
There is also the real reason Stannis goes to the wall, he received a letter from the nights watch about the walkers and was the only king to go up there and help them.
3:47 That’s not a white walker at castle black, it’s a wight, that’s why nobody calls it a white walker. You have a point about nobody believing it, but at that point nobody had actually seen an actual White Walker aside from the guy from the first episode.
You forgot it was because of Jon Snow that Dany went north of the wall and lost her dragon which is what the Night King used to bring the wall down. Had the Night King the ability to go south of the wall he'd have done it already. The wall has magical traits that keep the White Walkers from passing through the wall. Ultimately it was BECAUSE of Jon that the White Walkera went south of the wall
his death catapulted arias trajectory to become a cold blooded sneaky killer who learned swordplay slight of hand and ultimately defeated the night king and headless Ned’s death caused Robb to go south to war wich left bran to get betrayed by Theon wich led brand to flee beyond the wall become the three eyed raven and they all meet at that exact moment. Brilliant. Then we had the worst ending ever.
I was on the subway earlier this week, and I was talking with a friend about GoT since I just watched it for the first time last month and I spoiled Jamie's death to a book-only reader. LOL imagine spending 7 years avoiding spoilers only for to get spoiled by some random person on a subway going back home. I feel horrible whenever I remember LMAOO.
Ned surviving and taking the black would have helped prevent the White Walkers from ever making it past the wall. Ned knew winter was coming, so he would have been more proactive in the war to come.
Exactly!! And Ned’s actions would have prevented that journey to capture a wight to take to show Cersei. The night king never gets a dragon. The wall never falls.
If Ned doesn't die, Robs army doesn't advance, so the Lannister army is in Kings Landing and Stannis probably dies attacking the city. But most importantly Arya doesn't go on her training journey and then can't kill the Night King
I feel like Ned would have been a huge help against the wildlings especially Jon told him what he found. He trusts Jon enough to believe him, and wouldn’t kill Jim for sleeping with a wildling woman either.
Ok, so this theory some holes big enough for one of the Golden Company's elephants to trudge through. First off, could he not have just been saying that to Bran just to make him feel less anxious? He just saw a man beheaded. Ned prob didn't want to overwhelm the poor land. Also, he's obsessed with duty... except when it comes to family. He'd 100% go beyond the Wall to look for Benjen, Others be damned. He also wouldn't let Jon Stark die either. He'd whisk him away to Winterfell if he had to to keep his promise to Lyanna. It's a little weird where we have 100% concrete examples of when Ned discards honor, yet this theory hinges on him not making that same choice? One he's made twice and one instance he's kept for like the better part of 2 decades? So Ned does go north of the Wall, and given he survives, he'd 100% be on the White Walkers are back and then his ravens, especially in the North, would have mobilized at least the North, if not the Riverlands, and possibly others depending on how the cards fell after he left King's Landing If they hadn't had the War of the Five Kings, they would've had a completely whole North to muster their forces in defense of Winterfell. So even if the Wall fell, they would've had the entirety of the North, the fluctuating numbers of Unsullied and Dothraki with jetpacks, EZ claps lol. The Stannis one is tricky. It's hard to say what would have happened with Robb Stark and the North still at full strength, but Stannis answered the ravens that the Night's Watch were sending, so even if Ned Stark would have refused to meet Stannis, it doesn't mean that R'hlorr wouldn't have showed Melisandre Jon Snow in her visions, so she still could have met with Jon independent of what happened between Need and Stannis. I think the major issue with this theory is that it's assuming that the ONLY way the White Walkers could have been stopped is by what unfolded in the show. It's not necessarily the case if we're to believe that the prophecies and stories like Azor Ahai and the Night's King are to be believed in any amount. While I usually get behind a lot of what SC does, this one was kinda meh and honestly needed someone to play devil's advocate to refine it a bit. It's got some good points, especially metacritically when it comes to why Ned Stark had to die for the show, but this honestly is weak sauce.
It wasnt a white walker in Castle Black. It was a wight. We knoe the magic built into the wall prevents White Walkers from crossing (until the dragon destroys). I think its fair to assume that should also mean they cant create wights inside the wall, however thats either not the case, or a bit of a plot hole
Ned believed in the white walker he just believed them to be dead. He would have 100% believed that they were back real quick. Also, Jon was raised by Ned… He got his character from Ned, so assuming Ned wouldn’t do the things Jon did is disagreeable.
I want a White Walker spinoff show to tie up all the loose ends left in GoT. How cool would it be if on HOTD Daemon's story ends with him being one of the Night King's Generals to be the lead-in to a White Walkers show…
I actually think he would listen to Jon even he didn't win the lord commander and Ned did. Ned having a family member serving at wall he would consider listening to what Jon would know already.
All Ned had to do was listen to his wife and tell the King no to being hand of the king and he stays in Winterfell. Jon still goes to castle black becomes a a brother of the night's watch still goes beyond the wall and Jon would have wrote to Ned about Benjen and what he saw beyond the wall and Ned would believe him. Then eventually Ned tells Jon about who his mother is. Sure King's Landing would have a brat as king when Robert dies but they've had worse before. Maybe even Ned could convince Stannis to stand with them against the White Walkers.
Actually... Whether Ned dies or not makes no difference, even with everything you said, Daenerys would still arrive at Kings Landing in search of reclaiming the throne and would never have gone with the dragons behind the wall. In fact, Ned's death is what triggers the war with the White Walkers, because the Night King would never be able to cross the wall because it was magical, he needed the dragon to be able to conquer Westeros.
Isn't Jon's alliance with Dany the only reason that the Night King/ White Walkers were able to fully venture south? The magic of the wall was holding back the White Walkers. The only reason they were able to pass is because they killed a dragon that had gone beyond the wall, claimed it, and destroyed the wall with undead dragonfire. Dany went north of the wall to save Jon. Jon wouldn't have been north of the wall if Ned Stark had never died.
I think you are forgetting who actually killed the night king. It was Arya, not Jon, but in fairness, she probably never would have run away and become "noone" and gotten the skills needed to kill him, if she hadn't seen her father beheaded. Also I was wondering if the night king's army would have EVER gotten past the wall if they didnt have the dragon to burn it all down. Maybe if Dani had never met Snow, then they wouldn't have ended up giving the night king his dragon. We are all talking in maybes here. The show ended in the way it did, some liked it, most hated it. After all these years I have watched it all again and this time around, I actually loved the ending. You can slowly see the mother of dragons decending into madness, every season it got worse and worse and she killed people in the name of her birthright to be on the throne. Even though we later find out, Snow was the actual next in line. The show was the best thing on TV and still is in my mind. HOTD is great too and I can wait to watch season 2's final episode tonight. It should be epic!!!
You missed the obvious change that Ned living would have brought. You focus so much on Jon, but Arya - who killed the Night King, would never have been trained by the Faceless men for that exact purpose, and would never have been in the right place at the right time, with the right skills (and the right weapon) to do it. And also, Bran would never have had to travel north to meet and become the 3-Eyed Raven. So he wouldn't have been there as the "bait" for the Night King.
I would argue the moment Ned gets to the wall he Sends people to find his Brother where he learns of the Walkers and your whole starting theory is gone.
Seems like a pretty massive stretch, unless you think Ned would be incapable of changing his mind once he actually witnessed the WWs and wights. Ned also would’ve told Jon about his lineage immediately upon joining the Nights Watch
Lena Heady and Peter Dinklage WERE known in the states when GOT began! Lena had already started in the movie 300 and the American TV show Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and Peter Dinklage is AMERICAN and had TONS of acting credits in the US long before GOT.
So this Ned wouldn't be the same honor bound Ned we see. This essay is taking a lot of jumps in conclusion, and pieces that change a lot of story for the North and the Wall, because Ned goes to the Watch. I love this effort, but leaves a lot to be desired. And this specifically about the What-If. Not the eventual behemoth that's is Game of Thrones from Ned dying, as the face of the show!
You don't think Ned Stark would have went to look for his brother?!?!?! Also the incident at castle black with Jeoffry flowers, Flowers wasn't a white walker.... he was killed and touched by a white it's a whole thing lol but all in all I don't think Ned would have ruined westros if he hadn't lost his head. Thanks for the video I love lore videos about westros ❤
Secure your legacy! Download Game of Thrones Legends now: gotl.onelink.me/W7zw/scrush
Kinda gave HotD spoilers in this ad lol
That GoT:L ad was actually good lol and it kills
You had me up until Ned kills Jon for breaking vows with Ygrette, the last thing his said to his sister was that he’ll protect Jon… that’s probably Ned’s most important vow 😢
Also Jon was on a deep undercover mission by orders of the halfhand himself.
Jeor Mormont runs the wall. He decides who needs killing. Ned only does it when he finds someone who went awol and ran from the Watch. If Jeor happened to be there, he would do it.
Ned Stark to Jon Snow: "Next time we meet, we'll talk about your mother." If both Ned and Jon are at Castle Black, Jon finds out his lineage in Season 1 or 2. Whole new ball game.
Not to mention Ned murdering the witness to the White Walkers because he was too lazy to travel back to Castle Black for an interrogation and trial.
Ned caused Westeros to be unprepared in the first place.
He probably only made this cause he got paid by a GOTs board game
So true 🔥🫡🫡
I don't know about this. There are other ways for things to happen. Eg. Maybe Thoros would have ended up at Castle Black, someone else could have discovered dragon glass, etc
my thoughts exactly... Ned lying just to save his family and himself changes things so he wont be so caught up on being 100% honorable because he had already suffered at the hands of the dishonorable in an unhonorable world.. I think they didnt give him enough credit to learn and adapt at the wall but I also agree he had to die to launch the series into a whole nother stratosphere and to mesmerize the audience with audacity and story!
I think Ned was practical. He didn't believe in them because they been gone for thousands of years, but once Ned arrived to the wall and saw everything that Benjen and Jon did, he would become a believer
Without the dragon, however, the Night King couldn’t have breached the Wall. If Jon wasn’t Lord Commander - because Ned was - then Danerys hadn’t gone beyond the Wall to rescue Jon, no dead dragon and so on. So, following the events as you describe them, a living Ned as Lord Commander leaves the army of the dead stuck permanently north of the Wall. No?
And also no messing with the babies being offered up to the white walkers, March South only started after the incident at Crashers and no longer getting infants
I believe the whites had another way of crossing the wall. I mean they are so many things that could of happened differently what if dany died by assassination ❌ by poison ❌ in the fighting pits before dragon saved her❌ what if Jon died while fighting Karl tanner ❌ what if Jon wasn't revived ❌ what if the wildlings killed him early on❌ they are so many times that Jon or dany could've died which would result in the walkers not getting a dragon so things had to line up perfectly. I think they was another way
Ps. I don't think that if someone had to ask George rr Martin if the dragon was the only way for the whites to cross he would say yes
Exactly what I was thinking, and Thorne wouldn’t have been able to kill Jon either, which would make Jon never able to leave the wall and by extension never meet dany
@@Dashawn Oh sure, you are absolutely right. But we’re being asked about a specific thing and you use what’s there. I’m sure the Others will find some way through/round/over the wall but in this scenario it’s what did happen that’s being theorised. But that’s the fun!
@@benethraxThen why couldn't Benjen Stark? He shouls have found the way and warned castle black.
For that matter why didn't he ride to the tunnel at castle black and get someine to come out on the north side and tell them about the walkers?
Why bother to use the dragon if there is another way?
Ned _always_ followed Jon’s commands, because he knew Jon was his true king. If Ned goes north and they “talk about Jon’s mother” it woulda been a different series altogether. This fan speculation is fun, but pointless.
True, he was the only one who knew.
Ned would have believed Jon, who knew first hand they were real & coming for them.
Upon arriving at the wall Ned would learn about the wight, everyone would be talking about it, kinda a big event that happened. He would almost certainly lead an expedition himself or send a second one, eventually some of the first return with reports of white walkers and eventually Jon would show up and confirm it. Ned can believe it or check for himself, go see Robb who's now Lord of Winterfell, he calls the banners and the entire North, at full strength since they didn't go south, unites against the wildings, wins like stannis did and if Ned chooses to let Wildings through he probably doesn't get killed with the entire Northern army hanging around. Ned sends letters to other lords of Westeros who actually listen this time because Ned's word carries so much weight, and Westeros is more prepared than ever to deal with the White Walkers, the dragons didn't really do anyhthing, in fact without them Walkers probably dont even get past the wall. Bran never becomes the three-eyed raven, and that was supposedly the Night Kings target. Ned going to the wall would have been probably the best thing that could have happened for Westeros. Ned basically had to die just to give the White Walkers a chance of victory.
Generally what I was gonna write
"Promise me, Ned."
You think after *that* he'd actually condone the killing of his nephew? Naw. Not a chance in hell.
I thought you were going to prove that Ned’s execution put Arya on her path to ninja-knife-wielder
Good point.
My idea of what would have happened. Ned talked to the Nights Watch guy, he pledging his loyalty, but needing to get Arya home first. He agrees and the two ride off and eventually meet Robb’s host. Ned talks to Robb and tries to convince him to match home, as the he is safe and the conflict lost. Plus, with Ned taking the black, Robb is needed as Lord of Winterfell. Then Ned rides to the wall, alongside other Northetn men that Robb sent with him. Upon arriving, Ned hangs out for a bit and everything else more or less happens there like it did in the book. Once the remaining ranging party returns, Ned shows concern for Jon’s absence and follows Sir Alister’s lead. Once Jon returns,, Ned trusts what he says, that he was following Half Hand’s orders and they prepare for the battle. Once given a moment to have a private conversation, Jon presses him for the truth about his mother. Ned hesitates and Jon gets angry, saying something about being a bastard, when Med finally breaks and tells him he’s not. Ned then explains everything to him and why it needs to be secret.
The battle then goes on just like it had, with Jon going to treat and Stannis showing up. Meanwhile, Jon has a moment to talk to Maester Aemon, at which point he reveals his secret to him, then both being Targaryens. Aemon tells him about House Targaryen and his father, Rhaegar. He tells Jon about his letters with Rhaegar and about the Azor Azhai prophecy. Ned is then put up for and wins the vote to be Lord Commander and he names Jon his Stewart. From there, they start working with Stannis since Winterfell remains in Stark hands.
Meanwhile, Bran would eventually sneak out of Winterfell with Hodor to find the Three Eyes Raven.
As for the Whitewalkers, Ned is able to rally the north for help fighting the army of the dead and manning the wall alongside the Wildlings. At some point, there is some argument with the Wildlings and Jon gets into the middle of things trying to stop it and is accidentally stabbed and killed. Then, Melisandre performs the ritual and brings him back to life. And things continue on…
That should be a video on its own.
Arya wouldn’t have been on that path if Jon hadn’t done all the stuff before. Arya killing the Night King doesn’t change the prophecy, Jon’s path, journey, sacrifice, love and leadership is what put everyone exactly where they needed to be. Because he was the Prince who was Promised.
And Hodor….the mvp
Arya needs to be included in this video. If Ned had not died she wouldn’t have ended up following the trajectory her character took leading to the killing of the White Walker King. I do believe the path Snow took was important in getting Arya there also but Arya’s path was just as important to the reason Ned’s death saved everyone from the White Walkers.
“White Walkers have been gone for thousands of years” is about as far as you can get from not believing in White Walkers…
“There’s a dinosaur in the Congo!”
“Dinosaurs have been gone for millions of years.”
I think it’s fair to call that disbelief.
@@PVSRyeah but if he was the things that John an the others saw he would already be aware of who they are so he'd be able to adapt quickly
@@PVSR not believing there’s a dinosaur in the Congo is MUCH different from not believing in dinosaurs…
It means he doesn’t believe White Walkers still exist or have came into existence again.
No. There isn't really any reason to assume that Ned would be in charge on the wall. Jon didn't become Lord Commander because Ned wasn't there, he became Lord Commander because of Sam's efforts. But even if he did, while it is true that Ned didn't believe in the White Walkers, he wasn't stupid and there is no reason to believe he would ignore the evidence when it was presented to him, which it would be when Sam returned to the wall. Pretty much nobody believed in the White Walkers either until then.
It's probable he wouldn't execute Jon. While it is true that he probably would if Jon had actually been a deserter, the reason he wasn't was because he did what he did under orders. Ned is big on honor, true, but not in the same way Stannis was, he didn't take it to the point of insanity. If he was, he would not have hidden Jon in the first place.
If it wasn't for Jon Snow, the White Walkers wouldn't have a undead dragon capable of knocking down the wall and the White Walkers would have a much more difficult time entering the Seven Kingdom at all. And if the Seven Kingdoms hadn't been so divided at this point, there is a good chance that there would have been many more defenders at the wall since everyone wasn't busy fighting everyone else or wiped out.
Winterfell won due to nothing more than Bran and Arya. It's pretty clear that they were losing at Winterfell until the Night King grabbed the idiot ball and decided to put himself in danger. It really wouldn't have mattered if the Wildlings were all turned to ice zombies or not. It wouldn't have mattered if Daenerys came with her dragons or not. None of that made a difference when the White Walkers attacked Winterfell.
Really, the fact that the Night King was an idiot is really what saved Westeros from the White Walkers.
Thank you for writing this, I was going to do it myself before your comment. Another half assed and stupid take/theory from these so called experts.
@@ExNihil0 Thank you, but I don't really expect them to be experts in everything and I am overly obsessed with Game of Thrones and even more with the books. Plus the show got far less rational once they ran of books to base it on. Plus in the show, pretty much everything Jon did once the show ran of books did more harm than good.
THANK YOU! What saved the seven kingdoms was shitty writing. Nothing mattered in the end, Arya just had to get close enough to the Night King. I just want GRRM to finish the books at SOME point so that we can be rid of the nonsensical plot as canon. But he probably never will.
@@sohinidutta97 The thing is, it COULD have made sense that Arya unalived the Night King. In the books, the Faceless Men are a religious cult. They worship death and consider the death they cause to be a mercy. To them, the Night King would be an abomination. The Night King doesn't allow the dead to rest.
Personally, I would have kept Arya as a member of the cult. I could see them sending Arya to Winterfell specifically to deal with the Night King (or even go en mass). If she then unalived the Night King, it would mean something. She would be Death taking its own back.
And I wouldn't have her poison the Freys. The Faceless Men do not pick their own targets. I would have the Starks being forced to agree to give them a pass in order to get them to help fight the Night King. Jon Snow gave a big speech about how they had to put aside their grudges for all mankind, it would have been cool to see him forced to put aside his own.
Arya could have an epiphany when she was in the middle of the burning of Kings Landing. She could have realized after seeing all that death that she could no longer serve the god of death.
OK, I have thought a lot about this...
You could say that Jon's efforts are not what saves Westeros from the White Walkers since the defense of Winterfell essencially fails only to be saved by Arya killing the Night King. But then again, if Ned is allowed to live and join the Watch, Arya probably returns to Winterfell and certainly doesn't go on her arch to become an assassin to avenge her father's death and therefore there's no one to jump out of nowhere and save the day.
He didn’t save us from a disastrous finale sooooo
I have never seen Game of Thrones. What was wrong with the ending?
@@briana8088they sorta rushed it.
One main reason is they turned a fan favorite character into the true villain. Unfortunately, there were signs of her turning from the very beginning but who doesn’t like a lady with dragons.
@@M0nst3r0711 Then what's the problem? You saw it from the beginning.
@@briana8088 a lot of people didn’t see it coming 😆 I mean, if a girl is okay pouring melted gold on her brother’s head, then yeah, I think we should keep an eye on her
@@M0nst3r0711and Bran became a psychopath.
The only problem with this theory is that Ned Stark knew that R+L=JS, so I feel like he would have deferred to him a bit more than you're giving him credit for.
Also, the key to the White Walkers getting past the wall was the dragon they captured and in your scenario that would have never happened, so Winterfell would have never been attacked in the first place.
I think Arya was worth mentioning because if Ned hadn’t died like he did, she probably wouldn’t have been bent on revenge, therefore training to become an assassin, therefore killing the night king.
Arya was already training with Syrio Forel. If both Ned and Syrio had survived, she might just have contined her Water Dancer training - it's not as if she used her Faceless skills in that battle. In fact, she might even be better at that time with a sword.
The red wedding was the episode that got me in the heart, i was begging them not to die 😂
Ik it was a setup from the begining i just didnt know it would go like that 😔
This is the worst take I’ve ever heard. He promised his sister to protect Jon, let the whole world, including his wife think he fathered a bastard just to protect him. He didn’t “admit” to treason, he did it to protect his children. He protected Jon all his life and forsake his honor to protect his children And your take is that Ned would have killed Jon for sleeping with a girl? Lol not a chance. Also, saying that Ned being Lord Commander instead of Jon would be bad is also silly. Yes, Ned didn’t believe in White Walkers, but no one did. But he’s not stupid, Jon would’ve explained to his father exactly what he saw and Ned would definitely believe him and do what needs to be done. This is just an L take all around.
Absolutely. Such a reach. For what? A video? I get it but this is just bad
That wasn't a White Walker at Castle Black, that was a wight.
At castle black that wasn't an "other" or "white walker" but a wight, the reanimated corpse. Right?
Yeah, that was a wight
They are conflating (ice)wight and white walkers(the others).
You are correct
The quality here on SC is debatable lol
Yes you are correct. The fact they got this soo wrong makes me question screencrushs research.
Surprised there was no mention of Arya not becoming the assassin that wins the war against the whites if Stark stayed alive.
I wouldn’t worry about any of this too much, this was more about the sponsor this time and he had to come up with something clever to talk about
I respectfully disagree, I believe need stark would've found out eventually and do what must be done for the realm
What's another fun Game of Thrones What If?
What if book Euron was in the show instead of the version we got?
What if Jon Snow lost the battle of the b*stards
What if dumb and dumber didn't write season 7 and 8
What if Rob married Frey's Daughter?
What if Jon Snow is Azor Ahai?
What if Bran warged into the Night King at the Battle of the Cave during a vision with the Three Eyed Raven and got stuck as the Night King? Forcing the Three Eyed Raven to warg into Bran’s body before he died and thus why Bran acts like an old man in the later seasons.
I’d argue Jon wouldn’t be on that search party or wouldn’t have broken his vows, in his heart at least, had he known his “father” was waiting for him back at the castle
The North Remembers!
this video is bs 😮 if Ned had lived i would argue that the realm would have been better prepared for the whitewalkers.. especially with Aemon at the Wall
They really don’t! Old Nan remembers!
Pepperidge Farms remembers!
Wow, that was really good! whoever is idea that was to make this video Bravo!👏🏽 well written, especially the ending and great cutaways with good timing.
That was very pleasant, especially with the finale coming on Sunday.
That video was like finding one last peanut M&M in the bag when you thought it was empty😂
Made my garbage day better😅
Much love enjoy the weekend 🫡🚛
God I miss Game of Thrones 😢
It's too bad they never made a final season.
@@mattp1337 Yeah, but it's a good thing they stopped when they ran out of books. Imagine how terrible it would be if they had the gall to think they could write as well as GRR Martin.
@@torinju [healthy chuckles]
The TVA are doing great work keeping the timeline intact and not getting branched by any action. 🤯🤯
The problem with these types of excersises (if x doesn't happen, y can't happen) is that you need explore why the inciting event doesn't happen.
Maybe Stannis didn't leave Kingslanding before Ned's arrival, so Ned has some muscle there to back his move agaisnt Cersei and Stannis can just assume the Iron throne without a war and Ned doesn't have to take the black.
Maybe Jaquin Hagar kills Ned on the King's Road (why was he there to begin with?) so Ned never takes the black.
There's plenty of scenarios under which the important pieces end up in the right place. If Ned is alive in Witnerfel land there's no War of the Five Kings, there's more men to fight the white walkers and it is easier to organize and defend the North. also, Ned is a far better commander than Jon and probably wouldn't have sent their light cavalry running and screaming right at the opposition that isn't intimidated.
Ned's death also sent Arya her into downward spiral, so who knows what she may have gone through and ended up.
But John didn't defeat the white walkers, Arya did. She's the one who killed the White Walker King, destroying all the white walkers in the process.
It's Sean Bean, for it is written he must die.
EXACTLY.... he dies in EVERYHTING.... well except The Frankenstein Chronicles, but we never got another/final season, sooooo..... 🤔
His death got everyone hooked on the show
This man was cooking the whole video. This was genius
@ScreenCrush , this summary is the reason we need a Robert's Rebellion show.
3:48 Actually, the first time that a Night Watch saw a White Walker was in the first episode of the first season.
Ryan awesome analysis it amazing how the series have take so long to become clear but have such powerful messages.
Well done Brianna, earned my 1st like on a screencrush video!! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 - I was JUST thinking "what a well thought out, refreshing video!"
Ned absolutely believed in white walkers, he just thought they were extinct not that they never existed. If he was sent to the Wall and saw a white walker he would have known what it was. The Starks saying is "Winter is Coming" and his family built the wall.
You forgot to mention how Arya being at her father’s execution and grabbed by the brother of the night’s watch set her on the path that made her the Night King killer.
Great video but I think you have a wild misunderstanding of Ned's character. He is wise enough to listen to men he trusts...like Jon and Maester Aemond
The dead guy in castle black on season 1 wasn't a white walker. It was a wight. One of the foot soldiers of the Others (white walker in the show).
The poisoning of Jon Arryn set everything in motion but you don't say that saved everyone. Without the death of him Ned never leaves Winterfell.
13 years. Damn. That hit me hard.
Solid stance that does make ned look less Sir Gawin like.
Nice video, but I think it's a stretch to assume Ned would not accept the truth of the white walkers. After all, most people in the north didn't actually believe they existed until they saw evidence. And I really doubt Ned would have executed Jon for sleeping with Ygrette. So much of the Watch goes to Mole's Town to "dig for buried treasure". This point is even mentioned in the show and books when Jon confesses that he broke his vows.
referring to the defector from the nightswatch as a madman was a better indicator of Ned's disbelief than the "1000 years" reference
My Man Nerd is the Damn Hero as he should, It’s hurts..STARK 🙌🏻
12:45 Were people really surprised Ned was killed? I mean he was played by Sean Bean ffs! You know, that person who's famous for dying in almost everything he's in!
Also we can be thankful of Bran who did erm... oh and yeah he was useful at the battle o... Oh but he was instrumental at the meeting of th... Ah who am I kidding, Bran was so undeserving of that throne 😢
One thing you've got to remember about Sean Bean, he's good at dying...
"Well, there's another scenario where Ned somehow manages to save his head, returns to Winterfell, and raises an army of Northerners, Rivermen, and Valemen. He could overthrow Joffrey and put Stannis on the throne, making him the second-strongest person in all of Westeros. Stannis, as king, believes in the White Walker threat, and together they could unite the realm to fight against them. Westeros would be safe. As for Daenerys, there are ways to kill dragons, and then King's Landing would be safe too. It would be a happy ending."
This is so crazy. I was just rereading some excerpts of the series on the fan wiki because i keep seeing house of dragon shorts. Now screen crush is throwing back to the war of five kings haha
That is a Wight, not a White Walker, in Castle Black S1E8. White walkers are the icy guys like the night king... the zombies they reanimate are Wights.
This....Thank You....
*SPOILERS*
From the 30 minutes of the 73-minute episode I saw from it which is leaked all over RUclips, it seems like a grade B. I’m not sure there is a big battle in it because I believe I saw the ending. It looks like we get Battle of Gullet in two years. It ends before the battle breaks out.
Preston from RedTeamReview is not happy how they handled Daemon. How GRRM is an atheist and it’s your choices that define you. Preston isn’t a fan of how Daemon changes his mind after Alys let’s him touch that weirwood tree. It seems it’s written as if fate dictates their lives.
I see it similar to the message Forrest Gump has. That movie is for conservatives since Zemeckis is a conservative and Gump was a veteran who was awarded a lot. But Gump succeeded by random luck and being a good person. But if you’re a strong, liberal woman like Jenny, you die of Hep C or viewers assuming it was AIDS.
I personally don’t care as long as Daemon and Rhaenyra are reunited and Daemon is out of Harrenhal ASAP. In Fire & Blood, there was no argument between the two during that time. I think the visions is being used to set up Daemon as a greenseer to explain his missing body. And for Matt to have something to do this season while his character is placed at Harrenhal.
I think Daemon’s nature is to go directly to Rhaenyra if he found out Rhaenys was killed. But the writers had to separate Daemon and Rhaenyra to keep Daemon uninvolved in Rook’s Rest. No contact via ravens. Had to make sure Daemon ghosted Rhaenyra for a few episodes.
GRRM does have his limitations as an author that the HBO writers had to fill in the blanks on WHY Daemon was at Harrenhal. They have to take a paragraph of writing and turn them into entire seasons while making up their own dialogue and new scenes to pad the running time.
I can understand Preston’s complaints but I’m just relieved we got the old Daemon back pledging his loyalty back to Rhaenyra and he can finally get the hell outta Dodge. When fans see that scene, they will cheer and have a huge sigh of relief. Get the f*** outta there, Daemon. It was 6 episodes of tripping balls and getting insulted by a woman and kid. If Daemon was truly a psychopath, he would’ve beheaded Alys and Oscar fast.
Daemon is a lot better than what we got this season and he’s the most valuable ally to Rhaenyra in this war. But the writers tried to keep emasculating him like they did to Indiana Jones in Dial of Destiny. As if Sara Hess and Clare Kilner have an axe to grind with Daemon. Another popular white male fan favorite character that Hollywood is trying to destroy to make the woman character look superior.
The visions will pay off at the end. They’re going to try to make George’s favorite Targaryen immortal. Daemon and Loki are very similar. Both wanted the throne, are hedonistic, are second sons, sneaky, conniving, selfish, and have a God complex although Loki is technically a god.
I heard from RedTeamReview that the shape of the weirwood tree that Daemon touched is the likeness of GRRM’s head. Daemon is going to be a greenseer after he falls into the Gods Eye. Loki has Yggdrasil. Daemon could literally be a tree himself! While Aemond will die and he can’t escape his fate that his sister/lover told him.
I do think a few other characters this season were wasted and it wasn’t just Daemon. Otto only got two episodes this season but it explains why he went to Oldtown. The scenes with Alicent were rather pointless too because she also has nothing to do except have her clap cheeks with Criston’s pole. She’s not a dragonrider. Aemond won’t listen to her. Alicent is a dumber version of Cersei.
Not a lot of fans are going to like another Rhaenyra and Alicent meetup in the S2 finale. A drastic change to what Alicent really did in F&B. I already see memes for it on Reddit and how Alicent looks so dumb when 5 episodes prior, Alicent was the one telling Rhaenyra in the church that it was too late.
Alicent trying to get away from her crazy sons whom she abused as a mother because she wasn’t raised correctly herself and was afraid to think for herself or go against her father’s wishes. Olivia Cooke is a fantastic actress but she’s portraying an idiot character and a big hypocrite. A useless character in war.
Aegon was only in it for half the season. Only Rhaenys stood out as she didn’t back down like Aemond did but we only saw her for half the season as well. Corlys scenes with his bastard sons felt rather pointless. Then HBO removed an interesting character in Nettles and merged her into a boring character in Rhaena. All those scenes with Jeyne Arryn were boring! Poor Rhaena. Always moving and no dragon. Well, she’ll get Sheepstealer soon.
Ulf the White had all the potential to be this season’s new fan favorite character. But wait when you see the Season 2 finale. What an idiot! No proper etiquette. Dude tried to brag when he flew to KL to show off he claimed a dragon. What if Silverwing was hit by a Scorpion? Ulf and Hugh are going to be hated very quickly by Season 3.
Honestly, Silverwing has more personality than some of the human characters. She should be the new fan favorite by being the sweetie pie dragon. She’s probably the smartest dragon which is why she is one of the few dragons to survive this war. Her only mistake was picking Ulf but she was smart enough later on to ditch his dumbass. Go, Silverwing! Our Silver Queen. I dig her devil horns but she’s the most angelic dragon of the group.
We got BRYNDEN RIVERS, baby! Rogue Prince. Bloodraven. Breakspear. My Targ trifecta. Looks like the finale is a B episode. Don’t expect some epic battle in it. Overall, I give Season 2 a B to B+. Not as consistent as Season 1 but it was still enjoyable. But unfortunately, another two year wait for Season 3. Daemon was going through a midlife crisis this season but he’s back!
Season 2 MVPs: Rhaenys and Meleys
Most likable new character: Silverwing
It’s a bit of a mute point when the white walkers clearly should’ve laid waste to half of Westeros but instead got quickly stabbed out of existence. Like they didn’t even fight a single lieutenant in the ‘Long-but actually just a regular length-Night’
The others never make it past the wall without Dany’s reanimated dragon right? No Dany north of the wall, no zombie dragon, no army sized hole
- Ned goes beyond the Wall if Mormont commands it - he is the Lord Commander
- If even Cersei can be convinced that the White Walkers exist, so could Ned Stark
If you only get questioned by a speaking dog, you miss out some questions.
HoTD....' I'ts just a story, and your just a part of it"
It killed ME when Ned died. That’s how crucial he was to me even giving the show a chance
You're half right, for the wrong reason. If Ned had survived his confession and headed north to the Wall, he would have been with Arya, and she would probably have made it back to Winterfell. Arya would not have become an assassin and the final battle would have been very different. All of that assumes that Jaqen didn't fulfill his contract on Ned (that's almost definitely why he was in the caravan in the first place: Littlefinger couldn't risk Ned telling anyone about his treachery, so he hired the Faceless Men).
Random Game of Thrones video. I'm in!!
Jon spent whole seasons trying to convince people that winter was truly coming, that white walkers are real. If Ned had seen them, they'd have believed him outright. Ned's credibility probably ends things before a dragon gets taken by the night king, giving them more ammo.
9:48 Then they'd have to deal with Robb, because the moment he gets word of what happened, he would march up there with an army of thousands to avenge his father and brother.
Can you make a video that rewrites the bad parts of Game of Thrones into a satisfying ending? That would be an awesome video!
Ned was never shown to be an idiot. Rob would've been at the Wall constantly seeking advice, not warring with the Lannisters - Winterfell wouldn't have been taken by Theon then the Boltons. AND if presented with proof of the White Walkers, he would've sent word south for more men and supplies to the Wall, and to fortify the North in general. He would've been a better Lord Commander than everyone else too.
There is also the real reason Stannis goes to the wall, he received a letter from the nights watch about the walkers and was the only king to go up there and help them.
Brianna just keeps crushing it with her writing.
3:47 That’s not a white walker at castle black, it’s a wight, that’s why nobody calls it a white walker. You have a point about nobody believing it, but at that point nobody had actually seen an actual White Walker aside from the guy from the first episode.
You forgot it was because of Jon Snow that Dany went north of the wall and lost her dragon which is what the Night King used to bring the wall down. Had the Night King the ability to go south of the wall he'd have done it already. The wall has magical traits that keep the White Walkers from passing through the wall. Ultimately it was BECAUSE of Jon that the White Walkera went south of the wall
Saw a comment that said neds death started the biggest chain reaction in all of westeros
his death catapulted arias trajectory to become a cold blooded sneaky killer who learned swordplay slight of hand and ultimately defeated the night king and headless Ned’s death caused Robb to go south to war wich left bran to get betrayed by Theon wich led brand to flee beyond the wall become the three eyed raven and they all meet at that exact moment. Brilliant. Then we had the worst ending ever.
Jeezy creezy, y'all love that red arrow. In this thumbnail it's just out there pointing to nothing!
I was on the subway earlier this week, and I was talking with a friend about GoT since I just watched it for the first time last month and I spoiled Jamie's death to a book-only reader. LOL imagine spending 7 years avoiding spoilers only for to get spoiled by some random person on a subway going back home. I feel horrible whenever I remember LMAOO.
Ned surviving and taking the black would have helped prevent the White Walkers from ever making it past the wall. Ned knew winter was coming, so he would have been more proactive in the war to come.
Exactly!! And Ned’s actions would have prevented that journey to capture a wight to take to show Cersei. The night king never gets a dragon. The wall never falls.
If Ned doesn't die, Robs army doesn't advance, so the Lannister army is in Kings Landing and Stannis probably dies attacking the city. But most importantly Arya doesn't go on her training journey and then can't kill the Night King
I feel like Ned would have been a huge help against the wildlings especially Jon told him what he found. He trusts Jon enough to believe him, and wouldn’t kill Jim for sleeping with a wildling woman either.
Ok, so this theory some holes big enough for one of the Golden Company's elephants to trudge through.
First off, could he not have just been saying that to Bran just to make him feel less anxious? He just saw a man beheaded. Ned prob didn't want to overwhelm the poor land.
Also, he's obsessed with duty... except when it comes to family. He'd 100% go beyond the Wall to look for Benjen, Others be damned. He also wouldn't let Jon Stark die either. He'd whisk him away to Winterfell if he had to to keep his promise to Lyanna.
It's a little weird where we have 100% concrete examples of when Ned discards honor, yet this theory hinges on him not making that same choice? One he's made twice and one instance he's kept for like the better part of 2 decades?
So Ned does go north of the Wall, and given he survives, he'd 100% be on the White Walkers are back and then his ravens, especially in the North, would have mobilized at least the North, if not the Riverlands, and possibly others depending on how the cards fell after he left King's Landing
If they hadn't had the War of the Five Kings, they would've had a completely whole North to muster their forces in defense of Winterfell. So even if the Wall fell, they would've had the entirety of the North, the fluctuating numbers of Unsullied and Dothraki with jetpacks, EZ claps lol.
The Stannis one is tricky. It's hard to say what would have happened with Robb Stark and the North still at full strength, but Stannis answered the ravens that the Night's Watch were sending, so even if Ned Stark would have refused to meet Stannis, it doesn't mean that R'hlorr wouldn't have showed Melisandre Jon Snow in her visions, so she still could have met with Jon independent of what happened between Need and Stannis.
I think the major issue with this theory is that it's assuming that the ONLY way the White Walkers could have been stopped is by what unfolded in the show. It's not necessarily the case if we're to believe that the prophecies and stories like Azor Ahai and the Night's King are to be believed in any amount.
While I usually get behind a lot of what SC does, this one was kinda meh and honestly needed someone to play devil's advocate to refine it a bit. It's got some good points, especially metacritically when it comes to why Ned Stark had to die for the show, but this honestly is weak sauce.
It wasnt a white walker in Castle Black. It was a wight.
We knoe the magic built into the wall prevents White Walkers from crossing (until the dragon destroys). I think its fair to assume that should also mean they cant create wights inside the wall, however thats either not the case, or a bit of a plot hole
Ned would have eventually believed in the WWs, he wasn't stupid, just loyal and honorable to a fault.
Brianna’s carrying your Westeros content. Hope she’s paid well.
Ned believed in the white walker he just believed them to be dead. He would have 100% believed that they were back real quick. Also, Jon was raised by Ned… He got his character from Ned, so assuming Ned wouldn’t do the things Jon did is disagreeable.
Was wondering why this video was appearing over a decade after season 1 and at 2:30 my answer is provided
I want a White Walker spinoff show to tie up all the loose ends left in GoT.
How cool would it be if on HOTD Daemon's story ends with him being one of the Night King's Generals to be the lead-in to a White Walkers show…
I actually think he would listen to Jon even he didn't win the lord commander and Ned did. Ned having a family member serving at wall he would consider listening to what Jon would know already.
All Ned had to do was listen to his wife and tell the King no to being hand of the king and he stays in Winterfell. Jon still goes to castle black becomes a a brother of the night's watch still goes beyond the wall and Jon would have wrote to Ned about Benjen and what he saw beyond the wall and Ned would believe him. Then eventually Ned tells Jon about who his mother is. Sure King's Landing would have a brat as king when Robert dies but they've had worse before. Maybe even Ned could convince Stannis to stand with them against the White Walkers.
Actually... Whether Ned dies or not makes no difference, even with everything you said, Daenerys would still arrive at Kings Landing in search of reclaiming the throne and would never have gone with the dragons behind the wall. In fact, Ned's death is what triggers the war with the White Walkers, because the Night King would never be able to cross the wall because it was magical, he needed the dragon to be able to conquer Westeros.
Ned was the anchor-being. 😢 It was all down hill after that
Thank you Screencrush
Isn't Jon's alliance with Dany the only reason that the Night King/ White Walkers were able to fully venture south? The magic of the wall was holding back the White Walkers. The only reason they were able to pass is because they killed a dragon that had gone beyond the wall, claimed it, and destroyed the wall with undead dragonfire. Dany went north of the wall to save Jon. Jon wouldn't have been north of the wall if Ned Stark had never died.
I think you are forgetting who actually killed the night king. It was Arya, not Jon, but in fairness, she probably never would have run away and become "noone" and gotten the skills needed to kill him, if she hadn't seen her father beheaded. Also I was wondering if the night king's army would have EVER gotten past the wall if they didnt have the dragon to burn it all down. Maybe if Dani had never met Snow, then they wouldn't have ended up giving the night king his dragon. We are all talking in maybes here. The show ended in the way it did, some liked it, most hated it. After all these years I have watched it all again and this time around, I actually loved the ending. You can slowly see the mother of dragons decending into madness, every season it got worse and worse and she killed people in the name of her birthright to be on the throne. Even though we later find out, Snow was the actual next in line. The show was the best thing on TV and still is in my mind. HOTD is great too and I can wait to watch season 2's final episode tonight. It should be epic!!!
You missed the obvious change that Ned living would have brought. You focus so much on Jon, but Arya - who killed the Night King, would never have been trained by the Faceless men for that exact purpose, and would never have been in the right place at the right time, with the right skills (and the right weapon) to do it. And also, Bran would never have had to travel north to meet and become the 3-Eyed Raven. So he wouldn't have been there as the "bait" for the Night King.
I would argue the moment Ned gets to the wall he Sends people to find his Brother where he learns of the Walkers and your whole starting theory is gone.
Seems like a pretty massive stretch, unless you think Ned would be incapable of changing his mind once he actually witnessed the WWs and wights. Ned also would’ve told Jon about his lineage immediately upon joining the Nights Watch
What post-production techniques were used to enhance this video?
Fun theory as always, but Ned would have absolutely believed Jon who knew first hand that the white walkers were real & coming for the realm!
Lena Heady and Peter Dinklage WERE known in the states when GOT began! Lena had already started in the movie 300 and the American TV show Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and Peter Dinklage is AMERICAN and had TONS of acting credits in the US long before GOT.
Elf for example
So this Ned wouldn't be the same honor bound Ned we see. This essay is taking a lot of jumps in conclusion, and pieces that change a lot of story for the North and the Wall, because Ned goes to the Watch. I love this effort, but leaves a lot to be desired. And this specifically about the What-If. Not the eventual behemoth that's is Game of Thrones from Ned dying, as the face of the show!
The only Prince that was Promised that mattered
You don't think Ned Stark would have went to look for his brother?!?!?! Also the incident at castle black with Jeoffry flowers, Flowers wasn't a white walker.... he was killed and touched by a white it's a whole thing lol but all in all I don't think Ned would have ruined westros if he hadn't lost his head. Thanks for the video I love lore videos about westros ❤