It's funny this video is basically the precedent to patreon. Although people do enjoy the perks that are associated with the patreon model I agree with what John is saying. The primary reason for supporting a creator is to see the community grow rather than getting 30 minutes of google chat time.
@@williamrutherford553 How did I miss all of these things? That's amazing. They really are the Renaissance people of our era, aren't they? Entertainment, science, literature, charity, and modernizing patronage of the arts. It's remarkable!
I'm gonna level with you. I enjoyed the Taco Bell ad before this video more than the actual video. Not because the video was bad, but because the ad was about people escaping from a distopian state where clowns feed everyone mcdonalds for breakfast, all with "blitzkrieg bop" playing in the background. It was glorious.
Thebiggestcheese Because no single one gets them all, or all malicious scripts / attempts at harvesting my data. I run AdGuard, uBlock Origin, Ghostery, and at times, noscript. Every now and again I find something new to throw in the mix. One can never be too careful. Oh, nearly forgot the adaway on my rooted Galaxy with custom zero bloat firmware.
John has an amazing way of saying something profound in a simple matter of fact way. I remember in one of his question Tuesday videos he was asked, "What's the meaning of life?" and his reply was "Other people."
I was trying to remember my first vlogbrothers video. I knew it was a Hank joke video, but couldn't remember which one. This discussion going on the past few videos makes me realize it was this year. I remember this. I remember being here for this conversation. For the start, and eventual demise of Subbable (and merger with Patreon)
"There was a time when I used to get lots of ideas... I thought up the Seven Deadly Sins in one afternoon. The only thing I've come up with recently is advertising." george spiggott, aka you-know-who
Doctor Who and Sherlock are both BBC shows, the BBC is funded primarily by the TV Licence, basically a tax on households owning television sets. Because the BBC is funded by what essentially is a tax it basically is under pressure to produce the best shows it can as well as to be all things to everyone, a job I think it does very well but it does mean that its commercial competitors (especially those owned by one R Murdoch) tend to criticise it merely for existing (because the BBC is one of the most respected media brands in the world but it can't be bought by 21st Century Fox or Comcast) It also means if there's any hint of scandal at the BBC, the BBC pretty much falls on its sword, sacks its Director General and says that it's very, very sorry every time.
This. I have a few issues with the BBC but for the most part it's fantastic, and it's great to watch a TV channel with no ads except those for its own programmes.
I support my various communities (local businesses, public radio, the neighbor kids who come to my door selling cookies , my yoga community) because I want to see them thrive, make them feel like someone has their back & because I think what they are doing has great value.... Plus I also want to feel like I am connected to the greater good. Love this discussion. So very meaningful.
The bit from 1:09-1:22 and the bit at 1:49 "[advertising] doesn't incentivize the best views, it incentivizes the most views" is where you're really talking about advertising as a symptom of the weakness of Modern capitalism--namely that it requires ever-increasing consumption to survive. That kind of advertising has been tasked with generating demand in places where it did not inherently exist. That's why it wants you to lean back--it doesn't want you to think to critically about it, merely to let it wash over you and let it go to work upon the parts of you that make decisions on emotional triggers. If companies were satisfied with a specific number of customers, then there'd be much less need to be constantly generating new demand. But they aren't. They are driven by the need for ever-increasing consumption.
David n Oh, you mean the only remaining legal reminder of smoking in the media? Yes, it certainly helps to constantly remind everyone that cigarettes exist. You wouldn't want people forgetting, they might not buy them. Those ads are the only advertising left for cigarettes. Not to mention that they're still placed at eye-level behind the cash register in the most visible position possible at all of the most commonly frequented locations in daily life. The anti-smoking crusaders can't do too good of a job, what would we need them for if they succeeded?
Knowing John (note: I do not know John; I'm just a fan of Crash Course and the other science-y stuff he does), I expect(ed) something to do with the way astrophysics work and the age of the universe, but who knows? Maybe someone will find it and shed light on our ignorant skulls, but for now, eh.
Shado assain Personally, I prefer multiverse theory; one where universes are birthed in 10-dimensional space (I believe; it's been a while since I've brushed up on my string theory), and thus only singular universes are finite.
Sorta random, but I can't get over the awesomeness of your Doctor Who/Sherlock references. I'm a huge fan of both shows! Thanks for being totally awesome!
I love the public radio model because, as a student with extremely variable if any income, regular subscriptions just aren't possible. But then if there's an option to donate that coincides with a possibility to donate, I will donate to the things I love to keep them running. Also supporting + bragging is the perfect way to describe merchandise. That's great too
Advertising is the corporate form of Taxes. There are things that we all want and can enjoy the benefits of, but don't necessarily want to pay for: Roads; bridges; a workforce that can add, multiply, and write better than what text message dictates; and content (stories/news/info). Gov uses taxes, Corps uses ads. As time is money, Corps take our time, and Govs take our money.
This was my first vlogbrothers video. And then I went back to the very beginning and watched every vlogbrothers video in order. And now I'm back, just over a month later. What an incredible, inspiring, life-changing journey... I really encourage everyone's who's new here to do the same. See you in a month or so!
I was in WH Smiths today, who if you didn't know, only sell like the most popular books, and the fault in our stars was right on the front shelf!! I'm totally loving that you're becoming popular over here!! In fact they had a WHOLE window display in Waterstones a few weeks ago...with Nerdfighter notes in the books in-store :D
So why do advertisers utilize auto play video ads? They are obnoxious and intrusive. They disrupt my internet experience. If advertisers don't like Ad Block then they should try to make ads not so noxious.
Your claims just do not line up with the facts. People who use ad blockers frequently say that there is "no such thing" as an acceptable ad. They would not accept banner ads. They would not accept text ads. They even talk about how to use the blockers to get around paywalls. The goal is clearly to ensure that the site owners do not get paid, not to create an incentive to use tamer advertising. The actual behavior of Adblock users tells advertisers that they should look for ways to make the advertising _impossible_ to get around (as there is no pleasing the Adblock users anyway.) And while they are at it, they might as well make it even more "in your face." That's not what I want advertisers to do. But it is the most likely outcome based on the blockers.
John Undefined I never said I was a spokesperson for Ad block. I merely stated _my_ reasons for using it. Those _are_ the facts. I make no claims about why other people behave the way they do, I do not speak for them, I only speak for myself. I only know what I do and why I do it. You are projecting your bias against ad block users onto me. You are displaying prejudice. If a person tells you why they do something, it is highly insulting to turn around and tell them they are wrong. In fact, fuck you. I use ad block because I am mentally ill. I have friable feelings and commercials can be particularly hellish for me. I cry every day. If I can eliminate a thing that intrudes on my time, distracts me from what I was doing, interrupts my music _and_ twerks my emotions with sneaky psychological trickery, then I will. Fuck your judgement, fuck it to hell.
Cilly Honey You said "If advertisers don't like Ad Block then they should try to make ads not so noxious." That only works if the typical Adblock user is only interested in blocking the most obnoxious ads. "If a person tells you why they do something, it is highly insulting to turn around and tell them they are wrong. In fact, fuck you." If you go back and read what I wrote, you will find that I made general statements about Adblock users as a group and how that is likely to influence advertisers I did not speak about you personally before because it is the collective behavior of a group and not the individual actions of an individual that is at issue here. But your actions here have provided new information. By saying "fuck you" you implicitly agree that I have described your motivations for using Adblock. You are indeed mentally ill. You have the mindset of a thief. You recognized your own motivations so well that you didn't even notice that I was speaking in third person. You took my general statement of observed behavior as a personal accusation because you knew full well that it applied to you (even though I did not at the time.) If you don't like advertising on the internet, I recommend you stay off the internet. Your response only makes me hope that they render ad blockers useless even faster.
Cilly Honey "People who already have their conclusions drawn often do that [make dismissive 'fuck you' comments.]" They do. And you did. "which add nothing to the conversation about why I use ad block" You aren't trying to have a conversation. "You think avoiding advertising is equivalent to stealing?" I stated a method that also avoids advertising but is not equivalent to stealing. You didn't like it. The ads are the means of paying for the content. Instead, you choose to take the content while refusing the bill. " If advertising is triggering my PTSD, your answer is to stay off the internet?" The internet is full of things that would trigger PTSD, not just ads. "but I ain't stupid" You're acting it. You rely entirely on insults. You claim that I read "too much" into your previous comment. But you are demonstrating that I was spot on.
John Undefined You are not spot on, you are arrogantly telling me I don't know what I am talking about. I am trying to have a conversation, that's the only reason why I reply to you. I use insults because you are arrogant and arrogance pisses me off. I am easily irritated because of my PTSD. Deal. That has nothing to do with forgone conclusions, which you have plenty of. You have already have drawn your conclusions about what kind of person I am ("You have the mindset of a thief.") and are arguing from that position. I am telling you, you know nothing about me except for what I have told you. I draw no conclusions about you except from what I have seen from your interactions with me, all of which have been arrogant and condescending on your part. If you had stated that I am irritable and aggressive, I would have to agree. Instead you pat yourself on the back and arrogantly tell me that you are correct about me. Hogwash. You are prejudiced and biased. Life is full of triggers, not just the internet. I try to reduce triggers when I can. Ad block help reduce triggers so why should I stop using it? I'm not going to. If I was stupid I would go around telling people that they are wrong for when they tell me why they do things.( "Your claims just do not line up with the facts.") I would tell them they don't know better, that I know better. I would be smug and condescending, like you.
Completely off topic, but I just have to say this. Just finished Looking for Alaska, the first book I've ever read by you. It was absolutely beautiful! I can't even tell you how much I loved it. I'm definitely going to read more of your books.
Well at the moment it is Pinkie Pie :) And the final model for YT is my favourite. I only buy merchandise, not because I want to own that specific t-shirt, but because I want to support the person who enriched my life. I appreciate that connection and it is that bond I want to say thank you for. It is like buying gifts for your friends, you do it after you have established the bond. If you did it before, you are buying your friends, and that ain't sincere!
Being on the fence for a while on whether I can afford to support some of my favorite communities on Patreon this is the video that made me decide that yes, actually, I can and should. Thank you for that.
This is the one thing that I just think no big companies ever seem to get. You look at pretty much anything, whether it be a TV show or an online community or a small company - the one consistent thing that always works is being awesome. If you are awesome, if you are genuinely nice to your fans/supporters/customers etc. they will be nice back and out of love and sense of community over this awesome thing, they'll support it. But everyone still tries to force that support, which always fails...
Donating and buying merchandise are things people do because want to see the project succeed. The public radio/ public television approach and merchandising seems like it is the best way for the content to be available to everyone, yet supported by those who are able to monetarily assist. Having been a Nerdfighter for some time, but only recently becoming one of those "adults with a real job" I think this would work best. You are not the only ones bothered by the concept of ads.
I know I'm not John, but there are a few ways you can get yourself into writing yourself a story/book. What I usually do is take the parts of the story, the scenes that are most vivid, and develop them. Break those parts down, characters, set-pieces, themes, general feeling etc and build them back up. In that process, you'll probably find gaps that you'll need to fill, and from there the story will just fall together. Good luck!
Future copywriter here (guy who spends hours thinking up a creative way to communicate the ads message) this hit home for me. Personally, its all about engagement. People like to be engaged rather than interrupted. In the end if you can get a person to stare at your ad and remember it, you've done your part as a copywriter.
I'm sorry that you had to be in an air-port way too soon :/ but I love the idea of only supporting things you love!! I always try to support shows or artists I want to see grow
I will cry my damn eyes out the day there are no longer Vlogbrothers videos being made. The thought hadn't even crossed my mind until you said "Forever is an incorrect concept," John.
I can completely relate to your analogy of tv shows. For example, my favorite shows Young Justice and Green Lantern: The Animated Series have intently devoted fan bases that support the show, but both are being cancelled, mostly because they aren't being aimed at the right audience and the marketing is TERRIBLE.
My preferred ways to fund things like your channel. 1. A monthly RUclips subscription charge for an ad-free and higher-res experience, which, after a Google cut, gets distributed over the videos each user has thumbed-up during the month (rewarding quality); or if none, has watched; or if none, the money gets distributed over all RUclips in proportion to views. 2. Perks for donors, like a private forum. competitions, and events.
A hybrid of the public radio model and the per-content licensing model would allow the community to support the structure and development of an entire site while still allowing known and unknown content providers the ability to be creative with less overhead to the site.
This conversation is way beyond the scope of nerdfighteria, but I'm really glad it's starting here. I don't think I have much to add, but I am listening, and I thank you for speaking up.
Hey John! I'm in a club called 'Battle of the Books.' We read 10 books in 1 year, and study them, then go to a competition where we test our knowledge against teams from other schools. For the 2013-14 competition, your book The Fault in our Stars is one of the competition books! It was chosen by some of the reading specialists in our county.
You make some compelling points - I really have no idea how much time it takes to make a brainscoop video. However, given the length and lack of animation, I feel like they've gotta be much faster to produce than scishow videos, and those come out way more frequently. I'm not saying they're lazy, I'm just saying that if they need to bridge a money gap to keep it going, making a few more videos per week is definitely something to explore.
John, you didn't FTBA! Craig Ferguson, Sherlock, and public radio? Just a few of the awesome things I love. Not to mention I also had dental work done this week, this video totally made my day! Us nerds gotta stick together :-D Hope you had a safe trip to LA!
YES about public radio. I'm a member of both public radio stations in DFW and I never regret it. I love knowing that I support them. As someone in the ad industry who got into it because I am fascinated by advertising and the way that people respond to it (I tend to do things as an intellectual study for myself and myself alone...hm), ads do work. But why? My agency does a lot of work in the non-profit sector. I like that. Probably because I'm on the board for a non-profit, as well.
Oh, John-- I care about advertising! And we all appreciate the amount of thought you and Hank put into how to support your projects. Also-- You are going to be on the Craig Ferguson show?! I aniticpate the number of "in your pants" jokes to be... awesome.
Because that was the origins for their vlog. It was created because they did not see enough of each other and only communicated textually. So now they vlog as a means of staying in touch and we just happen to enjoy it.
Last week our school librarian was giving a talk about patents. You won't believe what video she showed us during her lecture. If you guessed John's video from about a month ago you would be correct. I found out that my librarian was a nerdfighter that day simply because she knew way to much about Hank and John not to be one. I just really wanted to express my happiness about this because I have come in contact with very few nerdfighters, especially adult ones.
This has nothing to do with this video. But your being in an airport reminded me of another one of your airport videos. Which reminded me of this: My boyfriend lives next door to a child who screams from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. with little pause. And I just want to go over there so badly and tell him, "USE YOUR WORDS." That is all.
Every time you are in an airport I think about Douglas Adams' book "The Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul", because the opening to that book always made me laugh ever since I was a teenager.
1:02 I'd say Twilight Sparkle. Also, I do like the idea of selling awesome merchandise to support yourself. Not only do you meet other people who happen to like the same thing because they see some awesome mug or shirt or something, but they can sometimes start conversations with random curious people. Basically, it's advertising, where you pay money to advertise something that you would like to see grow and expand.
It's a community. We watch, not because every posting teaches us some deep truth of the universe, but rater we value the opinions of the Greens and the interaction we share with each other in the comments. There is a marked difference between those who lean back and those who lean forward. We like to lean forward. :)
You're going to be on Craig Ferguson? Cool. And I also liked what you had to say about advertising, the corporate world, and life with technology in general.
When he talked about how hopefully video blogs go on for a long time, I couldn't help but imagine him as like an 80 year old man still making youtube videos with his brother.
I think it's the same idea as like PBS Kids. My parents used to donate to them when my brother and I were little because it was good content and we loved it. When we grew up, however, and stopped watching it, they decided not to donate anymore, and pass on the responsibility to those who are young parents now. I think that works the best, out of all the options.
This video (and the comments below) made me think what will happen when the vlogbrothers ends. Will it be in the next few years or will it continue for decades? Will they just keep doing it until one of them dies? Or maybe it would continue even then, with just one brother keeping the spirit of vlogbrothers alive. And what happens to nerdfightaria after?... On the bright side when the last video does inevitably arrive it will probably be the most moving and heartfelt thing ever created by man.
John's explanation of the public radio model reminded me of that bagel story in freakonomics, where people voluntarily policed unmanned bagel stations out of personal desire to keep the stations available xd
I realized that as John was talking about "lean back" advertising, I was slowly leaning forward and taking genuine interest in what he was saying. Captivation is more important than sedation, in my book.
"Option 2, kickstartering. Kickstarting. They probably call it kickstarting." -Professional Writer (Why are so adorable, John Green? Why are you so adorable?)
"lean forward" pretty much describes any quality work. when you're engaged and entertained you naturally lean forward. that's why exciting movies have us "on the edge of our seats".
This reminds me greatly of Amanda Palmer's "Art of Asking", which is a great video you should watch if you haven't already Asking people to contribute often goes farther than forcing them to pay for something. I think that's why crowdsourcing is so popular. Because people are asking for help, rather than demanding it.
I love every single one of your airport videos... Also, I just want to give you and Hank all my money so you can make the world more awesome, but I kind of need some of it.
I typically lean forward for this and similar content. The idea of relying on fund raising like public radio does is not a bad idea so long as the fundraising drive is not overly guilt trip inspired. The tone of fund raising after my pledge sounds eerily similar to the sound of my priest stating everyone should go to confession during his homily after I have just been to confession. For some reason I feel guilty again and have to resist returning to the booth to say "I omitted this one thing..."
In the UK we have to pay a yearly license fee per household to watch live television. I think it's something like £145. According to wikipedia, the BBC got 3.7 billion pounds off license fees in 2011-2012. :)
I get that last bit. For over 3 years now, I've been donating $5 a month to my local PBS station (WQED) plus an extra $20 when I get my tax return, even though I ditched cable for streaming Netflix about a year ago. But I watched PBS for 28 years of my life without ever donating, so I figure it's the least I can do to support something I value.
This reminds me of HP; I enjoyed the books and films, but I'm not really sure who Harry is as a person, what motivates him, what sort of personality he has, it's like he's just there to be the leader and Dumbledore's right-hand guy and to save the day. I can see who Hermione and Ron are, but I struggle to see Harry complexly. Also I think the Doctor does have some sort of personality or inner world or whatever, having lost his home, living forever and not really having anyone to relate with.
I really like the last model as well. I support things I love, but I also like the opportunity to try them out first. The brain scoop (which I love) is a prime example. I enjoy it, I want them to keep making it, so I set up to give $5US a week. I would happily do the same for the Vlog Brothers, and Laci Green. The no ads model is also intriguing for TV, because it doesn't restrict me to waiting till a product is branded in Australia and has Australian ads sandwiched into it.
I like the "public radio" model! I hadn't really thought of that for online video, though I suppose it's pretty obvious. It will be interesting to see if the community does anything with it.
Bruce Schneier (he of the computer security blog and all the books) came up with an interesting idea along these lines in the mid-90s, that he called the Street Performer Protocol. It's not entirely unlike crowdfunding. The idea is that you make a thing, and then you hold onto it until you get some pre-set amount of money from donations, at which point you release it for free to everybody.
![COLOMBIA vs. CHILE [4-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TDjN4W3yy1k/mqdefault.jpg)
It's funny this video is basically the precedent to patreon. Although people do enjoy the perks that are associated with the patreon model I agree with what John is saying. The primary reason for supporting a creator is to see the community grow rather than getting 30 minutes of google chat time.
+I am Max Then it shouldn't be suprising that Patreon bought Subbable, a similar service started by John and Hank.
+
@@williamrutherford553 How did I miss all of these things? That's amazing. They really are the Renaissance people of our era, aren't they? Entertainment, science, literature, charity, and modernizing patronage of the arts. It's remarkable!
My main goal in life is to interrupt a john green vlog in an airport.
Alternate title- "John unknowingly invents Subbable"
Subbable was in the works for a year before they launched it. =)
John Green + Doctor Who + Sherlock/Benedict Cumberbatch in one video = AWESOME
Agreed.
And this is why Patreon is awesome.
As he said. 😃
I love the human element to the vlogbrothers and their channels.
I'm gonna level with you. I enjoyed the Taco Bell ad before this video more than the actual video. Not because the video was bad, but because the ad was about people escaping from a distopian state where clowns feed everyone mcdonalds for breakfast, all with "blitzkrieg bop" playing in the background. It was glorious.
Gergenhimer I must have missed that due to my excessive amount of adblocking software.
+SillyStabbin Why do you have several adblock programs?
Thebiggestcheese Because no single one gets them all, or all malicious scripts / attempts at harvesting my data. I run AdGuard, uBlock Origin, Ghostery, and at times, noscript. Every now and again I find something new to throw in the mix. One can never be too careful.
Oh, nearly forgot the adaway on my rooted Galaxy with custom zero bloat firmware.
SillyStabbin tl;dr
You're welcome for Doctor Who and Sherlock we brits have to pay for the BBC to exist
We love you. We love you all.
NGoLC And we pay to see for Doctor Who and Sherlock in many different ways. You're welcome.
John has an amazing way of saying something profound in a simple matter of fact way. I remember in one of his question Tuesday videos he was asked, "What's the meaning of life?" and his reply was "Other people."
I was trying to remember my first vlogbrothers video. I knew it was a Hank joke video, but couldn't remember which one.
This discussion going on the past few videos makes me realize it was this year. I remember this. I remember being here for this conversation. For the start, and eventual demise of Subbable (and merger with Patreon)
You and Hank aren't the only one that are bothered by advertising. Great video, love you guys.
"There was a time when I used to get lots of ideas... I thought up the
Seven Deadly Sins in one afternoon. The only thing I've come up with
recently is advertising."
george spiggott, aka you-know-who
Doctor Who and Sherlock are both BBC shows, the BBC is funded primarily by the TV Licence, basically a tax on households owning television sets.
Because the BBC is funded by what essentially is a tax it basically is under pressure to produce the best shows it can as well as to be all things to everyone, a job I think it does very well but it does mean that its commercial competitors (especially those owned by one R Murdoch) tend to criticise it merely for existing (because the BBC is one of the most respected media brands in the world but it can't be bought by 21st Century Fox or Comcast)
It also means if there's any hint of scandal at the BBC, the BBC pretty much falls on its sword, sacks its Director General and says that it's very, very sorry every time.
This. I have a few issues with the BBC but for the most part it's fantastic, and it's great to watch a TV channel with no ads except those for its own programmes.
Patreon! Check out Patreon.
I support my various communities (local businesses, public radio, the neighbor kids who come to my door selling cookies , my yoga community) because I want to see them thrive, make them feel like someone has their back & because I think what they are doing has great value.... Plus I also want to feel like I am connected to the greater good. Love this discussion. So very meaningful.
Obviously Rainbow Dash is the best pony John!
RD is just a recoloured Derpy.
Yes, but she is still best pone.
Сумеречня лучший пони
Telamon8 "she of twilight is the best male pony"? Really? How's that Googol translate working out for you?
For me it reads "Twilight best pony" when translated.
The bit from 1:09-1:22 and the bit at 1:49 "[advertising] doesn't incentivize the best views, it incentivizes the most views" is where you're really talking about advertising as a symptom of the weakness of Modern capitalism--namely that it requires ever-increasing consumption to survive. That kind of advertising has been tasked with generating demand in places where it did not inherently exist. That's why it wants you to lean back--it doesn't want you to think to critically about it, merely to let it wash over you and let it go to work upon the parts of you that make decisions on emotional triggers. If companies were satisfied with a specific number of customers, then there'd be much less need to be constantly generating new demand. But they aren't. They are driven by the need for ever-increasing consumption.
David n Shut the fuck up and watch your ads if that's what you want
You watching those ads buddy?!
David n the point is that this inherently never can be for a good cause
Galaxia Even the anti-smoking ads the CDC plays?
David n Oh, you mean the only remaining legal reminder of smoking in the media? Yes, it certainly helps to constantly remind everyone that cigarettes exist. You wouldn't want people forgetting, they might not buy them. Those ads are the only advertising left for cigarettes.
Not to mention that they're still placed at eye-level behind the cash register in the most visible position possible at all of the most commonly frequented locations in daily life. The anti-smoking crusaders can't do too good of a job, what would we need them for if they succeeded?
Please elaborate on "forever is an incorrect concept".
I imagine he has, somewhere, on one of his channels; but that did catch my attention and I'd like that as well if he hasn't already.
Knowing John (note: I do not know John; I'm just a fan of Crash Course and the other science-y stuff he does), I expect(ed) something to do with the way astrophysics work and the age of the universe, but who knows? Maybe someone will find it and shed light on our ignorant skulls, but for now, eh.
the universe will end one day and so will youtube
Kraigon42 theares a theory that says that in 1 googol years all of the energy in the universe will spread so evenly that thigs will stop happening.
Shado assain
Personally, I prefer multiverse theory; one where universes are birthed in 10-dimensional space (I believe; it's been a while since I've brushed up on my string theory), and thus only singular universes are finite.
Sorta random, but I can't get over the awesomeness of your Doctor Who/Sherlock references. I'm a huge fan of both shows! Thanks for being totally awesome!
I love the public radio model because, as a student with extremely variable if any income, regular subscriptions just aren't possible. But then if there's an option to donate that coincides with a possibility to donate, I will donate to the things I love to keep them running.
Also supporting + bragging is the perfect way to describe merchandise. That's great too
But for who*
*grabs popcorn*
*nom nom*
+Max Lorge has your popcorn gone stale yet?
ambertheghostdog no, its just as delicious as it was a month ago
+dhodz hoddy the popcorn is stale
+dhodz hoddy www.grammarbook.com/grammar/whoVwhom.asp
Aaaand now there's ads all over RUclips ...
Advertising is the corporate form of Taxes. There are things that we all want and can enjoy the benefits of, but don't necessarily want to pay for: Roads; bridges; a workforce that can add, multiply, and write better than what text message dictates; and content (stories/news/info). Gov uses taxes, Corps uses ads. As time is money, Corps take our time, and Govs take our money.
But if you like your internet, and you want it to be free, it needs to get paid for by someone. That someone is ads.
Which is why i skip the ads as soon as i can. Unless its a movie trailer.
True, although sometimes corporations take time and money when they get unfair tax perks thanks to our corrupt government, but that's another issue.
This was my first vlogbrothers video. And then I went back to the very beginning and watched every vlogbrothers video in order. And now I'm back, just over a month later. What an incredible, inspiring, life-changing journey... I really encourage everyone's who's new here to do the same. See you in a month or so!
I was in WH Smiths today, who if you didn't know, only sell like the most popular books, and the fault in our stars was right on the front shelf!! I'm totally loving that you're becoming popular over here!! In fact they had a WHOLE window display in Waterstones a few weeks ago...with Nerdfighter notes in the books in-store :D
youtube never shows me ads :( is that because I'm poor?
No, that is because you are lucky.
+Rachel Evans (REvans) Who would have thought that being poor can be a good thing?
Are you sure you don't have ad blocker on your browser? That could be why.
So why do advertisers utilize auto play video ads? They are obnoxious and intrusive. They disrupt my internet experience. If advertisers don't like Ad Block then they should try to make ads not so noxious.
Your claims just do not line up with the facts. People who use ad blockers frequently say that there is "no such thing" as an acceptable ad. They would not accept banner ads. They would not accept text ads. They even talk about how to use the blockers to get around paywalls. The goal is clearly to ensure that the site owners do not get paid, not to create an incentive to use tamer advertising.
The actual behavior of Adblock users tells advertisers that they should look for ways to make the advertising _impossible_ to get around (as there is no pleasing the Adblock users anyway.) And while they are at it, they might as well make it even more "in your face."
That's not what I want advertisers to do. But it is the most likely outcome based on the blockers.
John Undefined I never said I was a spokesperson for Ad block. I merely stated _my_ reasons for using it. Those _are_ the facts. I make no claims about why other people behave the way they do, I do not speak for them, I only speak for myself. I only know what I do and why I do it. You are projecting your bias against ad block users onto me. You are displaying prejudice.
If a person tells you why they do something, it is highly insulting to turn around and tell them they are wrong. In fact, fuck you.
I use ad block because I am mentally ill. I have friable feelings and commercials can be particularly hellish for me. I cry every day. If I can eliminate a thing that intrudes on my time, distracts me from what I was doing, interrupts my music _and_ twerks my emotions with sneaky psychological trickery, then I will.
Fuck your judgement, fuck it to hell.
Cilly Honey
You said "If advertisers don't like Ad Block then they should try to make ads not so noxious." That only works if the typical Adblock user is only interested in blocking the most obnoxious ads.
"If a person tells you why they do something, it is highly insulting to turn around and tell them they are wrong. In fact, fuck you."
If you go back and read what I wrote, you will find that I made general statements about Adblock users as a group and how that is likely to influence advertisers
I did not speak about you personally before because it is the collective behavior of a group and not the individual actions of an individual that is at issue here. But your actions here have provided new information.
By saying "fuck you" you implicitly agree that I have described your motivations for using Adblock. You are indeed mentally ill. You have the mindset of a thief. You recognized your own motivations so well that you didn't even notice that I was speaking in third person. You took my general statement of observed behavior as a personal accusation because you knew full well that it applied to you (even though I did not at the time.)
If you don't like advertising on the internet, I recommend you stay off the internet. Your response only makes me hope that they render ad blockers useless even faster.
Cilly Honey
"People who already have their conclusions drawn often do that [make dismissive 'fuck you' comments.]"
They do. And you did.
"which add nothing to the conversation about why I use ad block"
You aren't trying to have a conversation.
"You think avoiding advertising is equivalent to stealing?"
I stated a method that also avoids advertising but is not equivalent to stealing. You didn't like it. The ads are the means of paying for the content. Instead, you choose to take the content while refusing the bill.
" If advertising is triggering my PTSD, your answer is to stay off the internet?"
The internet is full of things that would trigger PTSD, not just ads.
"but I ain't stupid"
You're acting it. You rely entirely on insults. You claim that I read "too much" into your previous comment. But you are demonstrating that I was spot on.
John Undefined
You are not spot on, you are arrogantly telling me I don't know what I am talking about. I am trying to have a conversation, that's the only reason why I reply to you.
I use insults because you are arrogant and arrogance pisses me off. I am easily irritated because of my PTSD. Deal. That has nothing to do with forgone conclusions, which you have plenty of. You have already have drawn your conclusions about what kind of person I am ("You have the mindset of a thief.") and are arguing from that position. I am telling you, you know nothing about me except for what I have told you. I draw no conclusions about you except from what I have seen from your interactions with me, all of which have been arrogant and condescending on your part. If you had stated that I am irritable and aggressive, I would have to agree. Instead you pat yourself on the back and arrogantly tell me that you are correct about me. Hogwash. You are prejudiced and biased.
Life is full of triggers, not just the internet. I try to reduce triggers when I can. Ad block help reduce triggers so why should I stop using it? I'm not going to.
If I was stupid I would go around telling people that they are wrong for when they tell me why they do things.( "Your claims just do not line up with the facts.")
I would tell them they don't know better, that I know better. I would be smug and condescending, like you.
Completely off topic, but I just have to say this. Just finished Looking for Alaska, the first book I've ever read by you. It was absolutely beautiful! I can't even tell you how much I loved it. I'm definitely going to read more of your books.
Well at the moment it is Pinkie Pie :) And the final model for YT is my favourite. I only buy merchandise, not because I want to own that specific t-shirt, but because I want to support the person who enriched my life. I appreciate that connection and it is that bond I want to say thank you for. It is like buying gifts for your friends, you do it after you have established the bond. If you did it before, you are buying your friends, and that ain't sincere!
Being on the fence for a while on whether I can afford to support some of my favorite communities on Patreon this is the video that made me decide that yes, actually, I can and should. Thank you for that.
This is the one thing that I just think no big companies ever seem to get. You look at pretty much anything, whether it be a TV show or an online community or a small company - the one consistent thing that always works is being awesome. If you are awesome, if you are genuinely nice to your fans/supporters/customers etc. they will be nice back and out of love and sense of community over this awesome thing, they'll support it.
But everyone still tries to force that support, which always fails...
Donating and buying merchandise are things people do because want to see the project succeed. The public radio/ public television approach and merchandising seems like it is the best way for the content to be available to everyone, yet supported by those who are able to monetarily assist. Having been a Nerdfighter for some time, but only recently becoming one of those "adults with a real job" I think this would work best. You are not the only ones bothered by the concept of ads.
I know I'm not John, but there are a few ways you can get yourself into writing yourself a story/book. What I usually do is take the parts of the story, the scenes that are most vivid, and develop them. Break those parts down, characters, set-pieces, themes, general feeling etc and build them back up. In that process, you'll probably find gaps that you'll need to fill, and from there the story will just fall together.
Good luck!
Future copywriter here (guy who spends hours thinking up a creative way to communicate the ads message) this hit home for me. Personally, its all about engagement. People like to be engaged rather than interrupted. In the end if you can get a person to stare at your ad and remember it, you've done your part as a copywriter.
I'm sorry that you had to be in an air-port way too soon :/ but I love the idea of only supporting things you love!! I always try to support shows or artists I want to see grow
Thank you, John and Hank, for making me lean forward.
I love that you're just chillen on a wall.
As a South African it made me smile when you mentioned SSondiyazi (one and a half years after the first time)
I don't why but I always feel comforted when I see a video of John in an airport.
He just makes me feel good about myself every time I listen to him talk.
I will cry my damn eyes out the day there are no longer Vlogbrothers videos being made. The thought hadn't even crossed my mind until you said "Forever is an incorrect concept," John.
'So yesterday, I had... forcefully removed from my skull'
That was a bad time to accidentally press mute! :O
I can completely relate to your analogy of tv shows. For example, my favorite shows Young Justice and Green Lantern: The Animated Series have intently devoted fan bases that support the show, but both are being cancelled, mostly because they aren't being aimed at the right audience and the marketing is TERRIBLE.
My preferred ways to fund things like your channel.
1. A monthly RUclips subscription charge for an ad-free and higher-res experience, which, after a Google cut, gets distributed over the videos each user has thumbed-up during the month (rewarding quality); or if none, has watched; or if none, the money gets distributed over all RUclips in proportion to views.
2. Perks for donors, like a private forum. competitions, and events.
I like how "Lean Forward", a phrase used by John to belittle mindless media, is also the slogan for NBC.
A hybrid of the public radio model and the per-content licensing model would allow the community to support the structure and development of an entire site while still allowing known and unknown content providers the ability to be creative with less overhead to the site.
This conversation is way beyond the scope of nerdfighteria, but I'm really glad it's starting here. I don't think I have much to add, but I am listening, and I thank you for speaking up.
Me at 3:25: Wait, did John just say "ass ton?" *rewinds and confirms
Hey John! I'm in a club called 'Battle of the Books.' We read 10 books in 1 year, and study them, then go to a competition where we test our knowledge against teams from other schools. For the 2013-14 competition, your book The Fault in our Stars is one of the competition books! It was chosen by some of the reading specialists in our county.
You make some compelling points - I really have no idea how much time it takes to make a brainscoop video. However, given the length and lack of animation, I feel like they've gotta be much faster to produce than scishow videos, and those come out way more frequently. I'm not saying they're lazy, I'm just saying that if they need to bridge a money gap to keep it going, making a few more videos per week is definitely something to explore.
What kind of camera do you use for these vlogs @vlogbrothers
John, you always make the greatest finish to your airport videos.
John, you didn't FTBA! Craig Ferguson, Sherlock, and public radio? Just a few of the awesome things I love. Not to mention I also had dental work done this week, this video totally made my day! Us nerds gotta stick together :-D Hope you had a safe trip to LA!
"Forever is an incorrect concept." ~John Green
I just like that turn of phrase. I want it on a shirt.
YES about public radio. I'm a member of both public radio stations in DFW and I never regret it. I love knowing that I support them. As someone in the ad industry who got into it because I am fascinated by advertising and the way that people respond to it (I tend to do things as an intellectual study for myself and myself alone...hm), ads do work. But why? My agency does a lot of work in the non-profit sector. I like that. Probably because I'm on the board for a non-profit, as well.
Oh, John-- I care about advertising! And we all appreciate the amount of thought you and Hank put into how to support your projects. Also-- You are going to be on the Craig Ferguson show?! I aniticpate the number of "in your pants" jokes to be... awesome.
Because that was the origins for their vlog. It was created because they did not see enough of each other and only communicated textually. So now they vlog as a means of staying in touch and we just happen to enjoy it.
Last week our school librarian was giving a talk about patents. You won't believe what video she showed us during her lecture. If you guessed John's video from about a month ago you would be correct. I found out that my librarian was a nerdfighter that day simply because she knew way to much about Hank and John not to be one. I just really wanted to express my happiness about this because I have come in contact with very few nerdfighters, especially adult ones.
John: "Forever is an incorrect concept."
Me: "You're an incorrect concept."
This has nothing to do with this video.
But your being in an airport reminded me of another one of your airport videos.
Which reminded me of this:
My boyfriend lives next door to a child who screams from 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. with little pause. And I just want to go over there so badly and tell him, "USE YOUR WORDS."
That is all.
"Ass ton," oh John, you never fail to humor me.
Every time you are in an airport I think about Douglas Adams' book "The Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul", because the opening to that book always made me laugh ever since I was a teenager.
1:02
I'd say Twilight Sparkle.
Also, I do like the idea of selling awesome merchandise to support yourself. Not only do you meet other people who happen to like the same thing because they see some awesome mug or shirt or something, but they can sometimes start conversations with random curious people. Basically, it's advertising, where you pay money to advertise something that you would like to see grow and expand.
It's a community. We watch, not because every posting teaches us some deep truth of the universe, but rater we value the opinions of the Greens and the interaction we share with each other in the comments.
There is a marked difference between those who lean back and those who lean forward. We like to lean forward.
:)
Props to John for making such a great video post-dental surgery.
I would absolutely pay whatever Hank and John asked us to if they ever wanted to do away with their ads.
if i was ever in an airport where john green was filming himself i'd probably just sit and listen to his awesome.
You're going to be on Craig Ferguson? Cool. And I also liked what you had to say about advertising, the corporate world, and life with technology in general.
That would actually be really interesting. Like a collection of essays, essentially, transcribed from vlogbrothers videos. I'm intrigued.
When he talked about how hopefully video blogs go on for a long time, I couldn't help but imagine him as like an 80 year old man still making youtube videos with his brother.
I think it's the same idea as like PBS Kids. My parents used to donate to them when my brother and I were little because it was good content and we loved it. When we grew up, however, and stopped watching it, they decided not to donate anymore, and pass on the responsibility to those who are young parents now. I think that works the best, out of all the options.
Is it wrong that, despite the fact that they bring John so much pain, the videos he films in airports some of my favorites?
This video (and the comments below) made me think what will happen when the vlogbrothers ends. Will it be in the next few years or will it continue for decades? Will they just keep doing it until one of them dies? Or maybe it would continue even then, with just one brother keeping the spirit of vlogbrothers alive. And what happens to nerdfightaria after?... On the bright side when the last video does inevitably arrive it will probably be the most moving and heartfelt thing ever created by man.
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! John, those tote bags are a FREE GIFT TO YOU for becoming a sustaining member!
John's explanation of the public radio model reminded me of that bagel story in freakonomics, where people voluntarily policed unmanned bagel stations out of personal desire to keep the stations available xd
I realized that as John was talking about "lean back" advertising, I was slowly leaning forward and taking genuine interest in what he was saying. Captivation is more important than sedation, in my book.
"i'm looking at you doctor who, and also you mr. handsome-batch!" LOL yesssssss
"Option 2, kickstartering. Kickstarting. They probably call it kickstarting." -Professional Writer (Why are so adorable, John Green? Why are you so adorable?)
You really do make me lean forward when I watch your videos.
"lean forward" pretty much describes any quality work. when you're engaged and entertained you naturally lean forward. that's why exciting movies have us "on the edge of our seats".
This reminds me greatly of Amanda Palmer's "Art of Asking", which is a great video you should watch if you haven't already Asking people to contribute often goes farther than forcing them to pay for something. I think that's why crowdsourcing is so popular. Because people are asking for help, rather than demanding it.
I love every single one of your airport videos... Also, I just want to give you and Hank all my money so you can make the world more awesome, but I kind of need some of it.
I typically lean forward for this and similar content. The idea of relying on fund raising like public radio does is not a bad idea so long as the fundraising drive is not overly guilt trip inspired. The tone of fund raising after my pledge sounds eerily similar to the sound of my priest stating everyone should go to confession during his homily after I have just been to confession. For some reason I feel guilty again and have to resist returning to the booth to say "I omitted this one thing..."
"Had one of my teeth forcefully removed from my skull."
Right there with you, with the addition of a titanium implant in my jaw.
I like the "thank you for making me lean foreward". Everyone should lean forward sometimes
I was literally leaning back in my chair when John said "Lean Back Entertainment." I was like, "whoa!"
In the UK we have to pay a yearly license fee per household to watch live television. I think it's something like £145. According to wikipedia, the BBC got 3.7 billion pounds off license fees in 2011-2012. :)
Thank you John for making me lean forward while reading TFiOS, I now own an Augustus Waters t-shirt. Stay excellent.
"Forever is an incorrect concept."- Love that.
I get that last bit. For over 3 years now, I've been donating $5 a month to my local PBS station (WQED) plus an extra $20 when I get my tax return, even though I ditched cable for streaming Netflix about a year ago. But I watched PBS for 28 years of my life without ever donating, so I figure it's the least I can do to support something I value.
You named my two favorite shows in like 2 seconds
I love when two of my favourite things collide, Doctor who being praised on vlogbrothers... it's just epic :D
Holy crap... I read this and heard it at the same time. MIND FRICIN BLOWN!
This reminds me of HP; I enjoyed the books and films, but I'm not really sure who Harry is as a person, what motivates him, what sort of personality he has, it's like he's just there to be the leader and Dumbledore's right-hand guy and to save the day. I can see who Hermione and Ron are, but I struggle to see Harry complexly. Also I think the Doctor does have some sort of personality or inner world or whatever, having lost his home, living forever and not really having anyone to relate with.
I really like the last model as well. I support things I love, but I also like the opportunity to try them out first. The brain scoop (which I love) is a prime example. I enjoy it, I want them to keep making it, so I set up to give $5US a week. I would happily do the same for the Vlog Brothers, and Laci Green.
The no ads model is also intriguing for TV, because it doesn't restrict me to waiting till a product is branded in Australia and has Australian ads sandwiched into it.
I find it incredible how every airport video is perfectly timed to end when boarding starts:L
I like the "public radio" model! I hadn't really thought of that for online video, though I suppose it's pretty obvious. It will be interesting to see if the community does anything with it.
You & Hank are absolutely not the only people in Nerdfighteria who are bothered by advertising.
Bruce Schneier (he of the computer security blog and all the books) came up with an interesting idea along these lines in the mid-90s, that he called the Street Performer Protocol. It's not entirely unlike crowdfunding. The idea is that you make a thing, and then you hold onto it until you get some pre-set amount of money from donations, at which point you release it for free to everybody.
Also, quick question: I have never seen 'that annoying Pepsi ad' before Lizzie Bennet Diaries videos - is it region specific? Like how does that work?