Episode 2: Douglas Wilson - Sexual Abuse, Cover Ups, and Victims
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Episode 1, Part 2 - Sexual Abuse, Cover Ups, and Victims
ALL MY FRIENDS ARE HERETICS!!! Darren Doane's podcast series starts with an exclusive, no holds barred 3 hour interview with pastor Douglas Wilson of Christ Church. Doane pushes Wilson to defend all his major controversies. Slavery, Patriarchy, Federal Vision, and more are all discussed and clarified. This is an absolute must for anyone interested in culture, theology, and gospel-centered trouble making.
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Looking forward to the next four episodes!
This was a cold glass of water to the face. How many people both outside AND inside of ministry simply do not count the cost of what is involved and, for those inside, into what they have truly waded. Most telling to me is that the male half of the sordid narrative was in a pathway to the pastorate. How much of this man's soul was compromised as he was sitting there receiving training to minister to the very iniquity with which he was and perhaps still was while at Grayfriars embroiled. The implications are more than sobering.
Those not in ministry, and especially the pastorate, simply have no concept of the magnitude of this responsibility. Handling deadly pathogens perhaps comes close, considering the spiritual carnage potentially involved in any of these thorny matters of human interaction, never forgetting and always accounting for the myriad of affronts to great GOD Almighty, who is the party of greatest injury. May He take mercy on us all. Maranatha!
No mention of the church defending him in court. No mention of the church excommunicating her. Plenty of shifting the blame to the victims, though.
I think you might have missed where he subtly said that Natalie's mother asked Doug to speak to her about a different relationship and that Natalie was unwilling to live in a Christian manner. I'm reading into that, but it sounds like he's trying not to put her sin out there for everybody and maybe she was living in a sexually immoral relationship at 19 and was then excommunicated for her lack of repentance. If she were excommunicated as part of a coverup why would her mom go to Doug and ask for his pastoral help?
Is that bc God preordained it to be? Joking and prob shouldn’t be. The fact she was excommunicated w/out a proper reason being cited is ridiculously shameful-it’s completely against the the gospel-2cor5:16-21
@@elijah4606youre really seemingly sycophantically fawning after Wilson here-1tim3:2-12 requires the elders/head pastor to make sure all leaders are blameless. He knew about that grown man living in the house before and should’ve done something about it
She didn't need pastoral help. She needed safety from predators like these men. Period.
I'm not a pastor but someone who has grown up and been part of a local church my whole life (now 45). What Doug says is true for many of us. We are indebted to our Pastor's discretion. Thank you Pastors! Also, our friends and family (many of which are in the church) are indebted to us for our love and discretion. You are welcome! This is just life.
At the same time, the punches Doug takes are... whew... I don't wish that upon anyone. You would almost think that Jesus is his aspirational role model!
It feels like this was made for me. I never got to the bottom of the stories, all I know is that I heard enough gossip (by which I don’t mean that I sought to listen to it, only that it was unavoidable and the first thing you heard at the time) about Doug to be wary and keep my distance, and it didn’t help that there was another Doug involved in a “vision”-somethingorother, around whom there was sex scandals. Thankfully I was reintroduced to him through James White and the RUclips algorithm, just in time to be blessed by his timely teaching on masculinity - something I never anticipated would be a rich theological subject, but woah
Love you Doug
As someone who already appreciated and respected Doug Wilson, this series has opened my eyes a bit more and proven my respect for him well founded. And I don't say that to put the man on a pedestal by any means, because I know he is a sinner just like me. But he has been clearly gifted by God with wisdom and understanding, and for that I am thankful. We desperately need more like him.
Pastor Doug good work. So great for your assembly that they have you. I am convicted of my sin but I am so envious of you and others that were raised in Christian homes.
Don’t be, as a fellow adult convert, I know that you don’t have to wonder if you were ever converted in the absence of a before/after, and you know from experience both the grief of sin and the joy of being set free. In much wisdom is much grief, yes, but seek it for it’s the principal thing
@@cosmictreason2242 Thank you. It is a life-time journey & I appreciate your encouragement.
That was heavy.
I would like to know why such a close knit church with an established leadership so consistently has had the wool pulled over her eyes by members who turn out to be perpetrators of a mortal evil.
I also see a contradiction between "men are responsible to safeguard those weaker than them from sin" and "she was grown enough to understand what she was doing so it's basically her fault".
People will do horrible things for self-preservation.
Doug never said that she was old enough to know better so it's her fault. He said she wasn't old enough for any of it and that her parents bear responsibility in part for allowing the relationship at all. He also made distinction between a 3 year old and a 14 year old in terms of their capacity for consent, which I think it's fair to say a 14 year old is different than a 3 year old even if it's still (rightly) illegal. To draw a distinction isn't the same as giving tacit approval.
@@elijah4606you just contradicted yourself; Wilson is blame shifting in drawing a worthless comparison between a 3 yr old and a 14 year old where he’s clearly supporting the argument that she as a 14 yr old could give consent lol?? How could you not see that.. God must be ordaining for you not to get it I guess
Glad to hear Natalie has publicly apologized on her Instagram. What a beautiful thing to have reconciliation and forgiveness! I hope this openness in dialog had something to do with it! Blessings to all of you at Christ Kirk Moscow!
Your glad a girl who was serially raped by a church leader living in house that Wilson knew about prior has apologized to Wilson when he should’ve intervened to begin with? Would you let grown men into your house to “court” (rape) your daughter? If your leadership knew about it was on them bc that’s the conditions of 1tim3:2-12 deacons/leaders must be above reproach and it’s up to the leadership elders/head pastor to vet these leaders private conduct which is clearly biblical
Pastor Wilson has a ton of experience....and am thankful for his experience...we need to all humble ourselves before the Lord always..and in all things..
Pray for your Pastors.
😂😂😅 no coffee?☕ that white chair, tho.😳
Very interesting story! I have a request for the interviewer; would it be ok to NOT interrupt the interviewee ever 3 words? Wow, was that ever testing my patience. Maybe come better prepared next time, yes. Please…
seriously
It’s constant. That’s an effeminate trait in my view. Men that were raised by women do that bc most women will constantly do the same
After molesting kids one goes to jail. Period. There is no "reintroduction" into the fold. Repentance is encouraged, but jail time must be served. Especially since it is more often than not a repeat sin. Also it is CLEAR here that Douglas has not the compassion and remorse he ought for the proper victim, and clearly has a soft spot for the perpetrator. Instead of publicly rebuking Jamin as he ought.
He never said his full name. It’s Jamin White. Sexual predator while trained in the New Saint Andrew’s “school”. That Jamin White.
Doug wanted Sitler executed but the holier than God Idahoan government decided 2 years was sufficient. If you want the pastor to have the authority to execute criminals then you have to get the laws changed
Tough job pastor Doug, I have deeper respect for you seeing your honesty and discretion in this interview. Hang in there....
At 10:10ish, Did he say just he would counsel a 14 year old girl to wait 8 years( making her 22) before marrying someone? Didn't he marry the other victim to her offender after 2 days? Im sorry I might have missed something here, I will rewatch.
No. He didn’t marry any victim to their offender…
I believe there may have been an element of hyperbole in the numeric apect of the exchange (i.e., allow for a few more years of life and subsequent learning and experience to transpire before accepting such a lifelong responsibility and commitment).
I think he said if Natalie’s parents had brought the topic of her dating and getting married up to the pastor when she was 14 and asked him if he thought she was ready, he would have told them then that they should wait for several years.
He would’ve counseled that regarding her specifically because she wasn’t mature enough, is what I got out of it. Hypothetically I think he’d be open to youths marrying if they’re very mature
13:01 so let me interrupt again “I’m still to figure out a way..” to get you off the hook.
23:00
Does Child Rape not fall into your category of "must be reported to the police?"
I mean, I would hope it would fall into that category? This really isn't a close call.
Since when does it not? Pastors are mandatory reporters.
@@cosmictreason2242since Wilson didn’t report it apparently
@@justinchamberlain3443 incorrect. Actually watch the video 🖕
What a crazy story. How could these parents be so naïve?? They are guilty of allowing this to happen. And Jamin needs to go to prison.
This much later, does he really? The sin is fornication with an unbetrothed girl, the penalty would be a fine or marrying her. The Bible doesn’t prescribe death, and prison is unbiblical
@@cosmictreason2242 prison because the law of the land says it’s wrong to have relations with a minor.
As a very young freshman the young girl I dated had a marine boyfriend hired by her mother so unfortunately many parents are clueless.
@@sofiabravo1994 he was sentenced. Here’s a hostile witness, “homeschoolers anonymous”
_“October 28, 2005, Wight was arraigned and informed that three charges were being brought against him, one count of Sex Abuse Against a Child and two counts of Lewd Conduct With a Child Under Sixteen Years of Age. Wight pled not guilty to all three charges. Then on May 12, 2006, Wight’s charges were reduced to a Felony Offense of Injury to a Child. Wight pled guilty to that much-reduced charge and was able to made a deal such that he only had to serve 4-6 months in the North Idaho Correctional Institution.”_
@@sofiabravo1994it’s so crazy you have to say that. I guess Gods ordaining ppl to be too dense as to not get it
I’ve found these episodes helpful, but if I could give one critique it would be that it would be more helpful if the host would stop interrupting Doug and let him answer the questions he’s asking him. I’d love to hear a FULL, uninterrupted response and for the host to not try to clarify what Doug is saying before he even finishes speaking. I think Doug will clarify as he’s speaking and if there’s any need after he finishes answering, the host can then ask a question. Just my two cents. I feel like it’s all so jumbled because Doug isn’t finishing his flow of thought.
Blackmailing people ? Sheesh
This is just so gross. That this man argues that a middle school kid is old enough to be ready to marry and be held accountable for the decisions made by men around her and for her (as she is TAUGHT TO DO as a child, as a woman...before and after marriage). In other words, she is an object to be controlled, until a man violates her with his choices, only THEN does she have full agency and accountability. Sick. Nevermind the comments about how her life is ruined but those other children are just fine, I guess? No. They are absolutely not ok. He cannot have known about a "courtship" where the man lives IN THE HOUSE with this girl and then be surprised. How is that her fault? It's illegal for a REASON. At least three grown men pretend they have no responsibility for a girl being violated even though they set her up for it.
He literally said she wasn't ready for a courtship. Her parents were the ones that said that. Perhaps you would find it interesting to know Natalie made a public Instagram post where she stated she had apologized to Doug and sought his forgiveness for blaming him for something he had nothing to do with. Then she subtly suggested she blamed her parents or "those who allowed it to happen".
@@elijah4606so what? She’s a kid who was repeatedly raped and now she’s on the outs so of course she would apologize for it just to try to get some acceptance instead of just being rejected by a church for no real reason.
Hey Darren did you ever apologize to Natalie and Wesley for using Wesley mfa project against them as a way of humiliating them.
16:40 "Jamin's defense would be consent."
But it wouldn't. 14 year olds can't give consent. This is really basic knowledge. And whether charges are brought has absolutely nothing to do with Gary's wishes. The State will prosecute child rape, regardless. And statements from Natalie about whether she consented will not be admitted because it's immaterial.
Did you ever think about talking to a lawyer?
When the law changes to benefit the 🏳️⚧️ then what will you say? Of course 14 year olds can consent. The question is who has the RIGHT to permit a exyouall relationship with a daughter living at home? Only the father does. That's why the solution is parental rights, not an arbitrary age of majority by a secular government that's changing so fast you get whiplash
@@cosmictreason2242 Oh really? You think parents should have a right to consent to sexual relations on behalf of their minor children? You do realize that will literally legalize child prostitution, right? What percentage of parents will properly protect their children in a society that has largely rejected God? Just as it is well within the traditional police powers of the states to prohibit or regulate abortion, so to is it completely rational and constitutional for state governments to set the age of majority for sexual consent.
But hey, if you want to advocate for your right to have sex with a 14 year old, go for it. Have fun.
He's literally sitting here and claiming that covering up crimes to women and children (as long as they were in the past) is just fine because it's his job. That porn use and rape of a child deserves the same intervention as a pastor. While praising his own discretion, is publicly blaming a child for the acts that grown men perpetrated, while also being known for advocating for complete male control over children and wives. That supposedly, men are trustworthy enough to have this type of unlimited power over other human beings, that it is Godly to have such, while also giving MORE agency of choice in this situation to the little girl. How can both be true? Because it's super convenient for bad men like this.
1tim2:12 clearly does not permit women into authority positions. But 1tim3:2-12 describes how elders must be blameless in ALL things and conduct including all private life, porn, affairs, spending habits etc with the clear responsibility being on the head elders/head pastor to properly vet ALL leaders! So you’re right if men have authority then they must accept the responsibility and not dancing around it like was happening here
A lot of stuttering, stammering, dancing around, blame shifting, and vague notions being brought forth as apposed to clear and concise points. Your deacon is now serving 2 yrs in fed prison for kiddy porn-let’s start there. Did God ordain that? And is that why we’re pretending that didn’t happen and/or dancing around and dodging that subject all together? This shouldn’t be supported nor the god that ordains child rape
🤔 ~ So this pastor wants to be given the benefit of the doubt, yet in previous episode he talks in code about how the LGBT community has this wicked agenda against society. He didn’t use those words, but it’s obvious what he was saying.
And I love how he said that if he was out to get the interview or he could twist his words and actions against him to make it seem horrible. That’s what so many Christians do to the LGBT community. They tar them with stuff that has nothing to do with them. And when you see a straight man abuse a child, you just consider him vile. But when you see a gay man do it you consider him symptomatic of the culture. It’s a double standard. And it’s running rampant.
If a man abuses a child then he's not straight. You played yourself
20:40 "People could leave." Are you serious? What you are saying is get out of here...you are just a constant reminder of an embarrassing episode in the life of our church. Go away.
Lol! Got that just a bit out of context...
@@Victory7777 Nope.
@@chickenheart896 What church community do you belong to where people aren't allowed to leave?
Please consider that you may be inserting meaning where it may not necessarily be present. There are any number of things to which Mr. Doane could have been referring, but saying that he was telling the parties to just go, if that indeed was his meaning, would have drawn a swift rebuke from Pastor Wilson, as he has done so in other contexts. Peace be with you, brother.
@@jackuber7358 Please take another listen to this segment.
Doane: "Now he's gone back and forth...and..but I mean..
Now you see her ... up to events, sporting events, food service, whatever you know...Jamin, kids, school, all that...I mean...there is...it's still fascinating to me in these two situations people could just leave"
I don't see how else you can interpret Doane's remarks any other way. Especially since he is very specific regarding about to whom he is referring. Notice Doug does NOT respond to these remarks but immediately runs down a different rabbit trail.