This was my final year project about 40 years ago . . . we called it orbital milling in Europe, because we drove the multi-inserted tool with orbital gears and the part was stationary. This Swiss solution is much faster and easier to adjust.
It's really amazing when you take a high tech machine, couple that with a very skilled and knowledgeable operator to be able to show what these machines are truly capable of. I think its also safe to say that the limitations are within our mind as well. Very cool video and project. It would be nice to see a competition of 'the most complex machined part' between you guys. But I think I know which department would win after touring your shop and seeing those complex parts. I don't think that competition could be judged fairly though when putting some thought into it. Everyone brings their special niche to the table which when combined equals an insane powerhouse of expertise. Keep up the great work! Much love and gratitude. BTW when is the next Boombastic!?
it is both theoretically since both the tool and part rotate. but since the cutting speed has to come from the part turning by a significant amount, and you wouldn't do it on a mill, l would very much say it's polygonal turning
Its cool to see bits of metal being scratched off very slowly and seeing a part take shape with a nice finish. Its satisfying too when a cylinder head or deck of an engine block get milled to a nice clean flat surface🤤
Wow, I’ve watched several videos of people making attachments for their lathe to do this and I didn’t understand how they figured it all out, you just made it super simple and easy to understand. I have some projects I need to not only turn out some shafts but also mill on end of each square, this sounds like the perfect method
This is long form to you? 6 minutes .. I swear ever since tiktok came out everyones attention span has been reduced to approximately 30 seconds maximum before their brain demands more dopamine
i am a trained toolmaker we didn't have a cnc lathe but a cnc milling machine. if we wanted to create cnc turned parts, we put the lathe tool in the vice and the turning blank in the milling machine tool holder and created the parts that way
Awesome video, had no idea this was a thing, gotta love those swiss machines! PS, its gotta be turning, the part is spinning, isn't that why its called turning on a lathe?
That's shockingly simple. Absolute genius. I'm new to your channel and CNC generally. You probably answer these questions in other videos, but: 1. For that staggered offset effect, I assume you're just briefly pausing the tool. How do you do the timing to set the alignment of different faces like that? 2. You mentioned concavity, which I assume is caused by the circular motion of the tool. It's reduced because the part is also turning, but doesn't that also depend on the radius of the tool and the part? Do you have to compensate for that?
1) if you are talking about the squares the staggered effect is done with G53 C"" so square 1 is G53 C0, 2 is G53 C20, 3 is G53 C40 and so on in 20 degree increments. This offsets the phase offset from your live spindle to your main spindle. each square is 20 degrees apart 2) yes you are 100% correct the fact that the part is rotating into the tool is what reduces the concavity. the square was flat within almost .001"
And for 7-9k you can have this attachment too. We've got a ST-38(triple turret) that we're outfitting with some new live tooling attachments and the cost is insane. The machine cost nearly a half million and we have nearly another 100k in attachments. If you are thinking about buying a swiss lathe just know it's not for the light hearted... I highly recommend ph Horn tooling. Costly but top notch.
yeah well they cost money they are not expensive but valuable. Just think about this, mill turn with 80 tools and 12 position revolver, look at 500-1000 for each on the tool changer and 500-2000 on the revolver. Just to start with. What you actually get is entirely different.
It comes out more that than I was expecting. It was a few weeks ago but I am pretty sure the squares were flat within .001-.002. the Hex was a little more concave at .003 but If I had used more inserts at a different ratio it would of been better
The diameter of the live tool as well as the ratio of rotation between part and tool have an effect on the concave effect. Usually there is never tight tolerances on angled polygons, and for flat polygons, well concave doesn't change anything because the wrench grips the edges of the polygon, which is what your caliper reads also
Hola saludos desde Uruguay genios totales soy de la vieja escuela de fresas y tornos esto me encanta todo lo pueden hacer. Las diferentes de piezas por ejemplo un cuadrado o un triángulo cabía la pieza si cambia la relación de RPM entre la pieza y la herramienta perdón si no entendí saludos
@@jacobkudrowich his channel name is Mehamozg. Also I just looked up manual polygonal turning and it was the 3rd video that popped up after make it extremes video on a similar setup as Meha
I'm going with turning. Turning: the action or skill of using a lathe. Lathe: a machine for shaping ... material by means of a rotating drive which turns the piece being worked on against changeable cutting tools. So part go round fast = lathe and lathe = turning.
Tilling. Millurning. Seriously though, y'all could name it whatever you want, it would be in the machinist dictionary by next year. You ALL are changing subtractive and additive manufacturing for the better, in sooooo many ways👍👍 THANKS
Turning is rotating an object with a static, by reference, tool. Milling is rotating a tool with a static, by reference, object. This has both a rotating tool and rotating object. So at a surface level, it could be considered both. But if you want to get stupidly technical, it's primarily a lathe with a manipulated mill-like tool; the object is constant, the tool in reference is not constant in position. So technically intermittent turning at rates that are inhuman to accomplish. You could hypothetically produce similar results without a mill-like tool, just adjust linear position of the cutter at stupidly fast rates, essentially a robotic cross-slide; very similar to the concept of a rose engine, but different in execution and at much faster speeds. Thus intermittent turning should be the proper term, because the mill-like tool only simplifies the process mechanically, though this is at the sacrifice of the linearity of the polygonal sides. For example, if you put a fourth axis on a mill, does the mill also turn into a lathe? No, because of which part is rotating and which part is static by reference. It's the same here.
That's so cool, but I'm happy to leave the math to someone else who enjoys that. I wish I could just hang out and sweep up the shop and look over your shoulder as you turned these
Polygon milling is so cool, I use it on quite a few parts I produce. One thing I have not been able to figure out is how to time the polygon milling with other features on the part without physically rotating the polygon mill on the spindle. If anyone knows the answer I would love to know!
It’s more on your machines capabilities than anything. I used G53 CDR0 (R0-360) to set the timing of the live tools spindle to the main spindle. You will notice in the part the squares are all 20 degrees apart from eachother. If the machine can’t sync your live tool in the same spot everytime like that then you are kind of screwed. What machine are you working on? I may be able to help
@@donniehinske thanks for the reply, I’m running Hanwha XD-20h machines. My polygon mill is in a front working slot on the sub side. It is driven by the sub spindle. I have never tried that line of code you mentioned. All my polygonal work is on the same plane like a simple hex shape. So I only need to orientate the cut at setup.
@@chipper203 ah I see! I’m not sure if that code would work on a Hanwha. I’ve only ever worked on a few of them so I don’t know the code as well as I do other machines. I am sure there has to be a way to do it though
As someone who isn't a machinist, I would think it's mill-turning or turn-milling. To my mind, milling is a rotating tool while turning is a rotating part. Since you're using a rotating part and a rotating tool, it would be both milling and turning at the same time. So mill-turning or turn-milling.
These codes are pertinent to the world of swiss. What about applying it to the Mori Seiki Lathe NLX2500-SY700? I challenge myself to do this for cycle time purposes. Is there a manual way to program this cycle if the G251 code is not avail? Or is this opiton something that can be turned on in the parameters?
That is a VERY interesting question. That would be a very high ratio in order to create all those sides. Not sure how it would work but I just may try it! Thank you!!!
Actually i think it is neither and both and the general term for it is polygonal machining! Because According to the definitions i learned "turning is the machining process where an axially non rotating cutting edge feeds into an axially rotating part" and "milling is the process where an axially rotating cutting edge feeds into an axially non rotating part (i know this is throne of by multiaxial but... )".
Well, for the sake of support comment: it's both turning and milling at the same time. If only one word is allowed in this game, you have to go with machine used: for a lathe it's turning. Stright old-school CNC lathes do some limited milling, which can be called such if the billet is not turning.. And then you got the fancy combo machines with 9 axis and we're lost again. But that's nomenclature and philosophy, beyond the scope of machining world. Therefore i suggest back to basics neutral world for either of them: machining. Or call it cutting, whatever we do with our piece in cycle, it's cutting (unless you do it with a broken tool).
I mean if you define turning as workpiece being rotated while the tool stays still and milling as tool rotating and workpiece staying still I suppose this is both?
since you want to read it so badly "its obviously milling you dingyus" :) but to me it looks more like a turning while its not 100% true because in classic turning only part is rotating while in milling only tool is rotating.
This was my final year project about 40 years ago . . . we called it orbital milling in Europe, because we drove the multi-inserted tool with orbital gears and the part was stationary. This Swiss solution is much faster and easier to adjust.
That’s actually insanely cool man! I love the older machines as much as I do the new ones!! They don’t get the love they deserve
there always has to be one to invent, and one to perfect it. both are as hard to do as the other
@@burlyraccoon5029 I like how this happened in the two replies above
Prove it.
@@yourmom2860 be nice
This channel has seriously become one of the most interesting and fun machining channels
It's really amazing when you take a high tech machine, couple that with a very skilled and knowledgeable operator to be able to show what these machines are truly capable of. I think its also safe to say that the limitations are within our mind as well. Very cool video and project. It would be nice to see a competition of 'the most complex machined part' between you guys. But I think I know which department would win after touring your shop and seeing those complex parts. I don't think that competition could be judged fairly though when putting some thought into it. Everyone brings their special niche to the table which when combined equals an insane powerhouse of expertise. Keep up the great work! Much love and gratitude. BTW when is the next Boombastic!?
it is both theoretically since both the tool and part rotate. but since the cutting speed has to come from the part turning by a significant amount, and you wouldn't do it on a mill, l would very much say it's polygonal turning
Yes. And even the workpiece-tool relationship is closer to turning.
@@JFBence and l guess you programm it like turning
Always impressed with your talent Donnie!
Thanks ma!
Im really excited for this channel and it's future. Informational and entertaining. Much love from Canada
Slow-mo milling is one of the most mesmerizing things to watch
Its cool to see bits of metal being scratched off very slowly and seeing a part take shape with a nice finish. Its satisfying too when a cylinder head or deck of an engine block get milled to a nice clean flat surface🤤
You guys are by far the GOAT when it comes to CNC machining videos! Love you guys, love the industry, BOOM!!!!
It's both! The live tool makes it milling, and the spinny spindle makes it turning! IT'S SO COOL!!!
Wow, I’ve watched several videos of people making attachments for their lathe to do this and I didn’t understand how they figured it all out, you just made it super simple and easy to understand. I have some projects I need to not only turn out some shafts but also mill on end of each square, this sounds like the perfect method
A slow-mo-compo would be ace! You're killing it Donnie!
Blows my mind how precise they can make those things in order to be in the EXACT timing necessary to do such cuts
Donnie has greatest energy! Love watching your videos!
Free education is something that deserves so much attention.
Nice cutter you got there!
This dude is crazy 😄 that is some cool technology, I've never seen that done before 🤙🏽
This guy has so much charisma haha. Barry is still my favorite though, especially the Barry/Jessie Dynamic Duo.
I told Barry the other day that I wouldn't hire him as a greeter at Walmart lol
@@Jessie_Smith OUTSTANDING! 😀😀😀
Yeah he wouldn't hire me as a greeter because he could never work his way up to manager!!! ;)
Yes please do long format videos they are more informative. Keep up the fun videos 🙂
This is long form to you? 6 minutes .. I swear ever since tiktok came out everyones attention span has been reduced to approximately 30 seconds maximum before their brain demands more dopamine
i am a trained toolmaker we didn't have a cnc lathe but a cnc milling machine. if we wanted to create cnc turned parts, we put the lathe tool in the vice and the turning blank in the milling machine tool holder and created the parts that way
This has been my favorite Titan's video. It looks unreal until you watch it in slow motion
I didn't even know anything like that was possible. Thanks for teaching me something new!
Okay, I'm hooked. I came here from this old Tony, definitely a subscriber now. You guys are awesome!
太感謝了，這部影片正好解決了我的一些疑問
Interesting. Never seen this and I have been machining for about 12 years. That's pretty neat.
Go look at a ball end allen wrench
I’m glad titan brought Donnie in I’m seeing a side of machining I have never even seen before !
Awesome video, had no idea this was a thing, gotta love those swiss machines!
PS, its gotta be turning, the part is spinning, isn't that why its called turning on a lathe?
This is just like power skiving of gears. Amazing what can be done with a synchronized tool and workpiece.
That's shockingly simple. Absolute genius.
I'm new to your channel and CNC generally. You probably answer these questions in other videos, but:
1. For that staggered offset effect, I assume you're just briefly pausing the tool. How do you do the timing to set the alignment of different faces like that?
2. You mentioned concavity, which I assume is caused by the circular motion of the tool. It's reduced because the part is also turning, but doesn't that also depend on the radius of the tool and the part? Do you have to compensate for that?
1) if you are talking about the squares the staggered effect is done with G53 C"" so square 1 is G53 C0, 2 is G53 C20, 3 is G53 C40 and so on in 20 degree increments. This offsets the phase offset from your live spindle to your main spindle. each square is 20 degrees apart
2) yes you are 100% correct the fact that the part is rotating into the tool is what reduces the concavity. the square was flat within almost .001"
And for 7-9k you can have this attachment too. We've got a ST-38(triple turret) that we're outfitting with some new live tooling attachments and the cost is insane. The machine cost nearly a half million and we have nearly another 100k in attachments. If you are thinking about buying a swiss lathe just know it's not for the light hearted...
I highly recommend ph Horn tooling. Costly but top notch.
yeah well they cost money they are not expensive but valuable. Just think about this, mill turn with 80 tools and 12 position revolver, look at 500-1000 for each on the tool changer and 500-2000 on the revolver. Just to start with. What you actually get is entirely different.
How convex or concave is the flat then? 🤔 would be interesting to see just how tight a tolerance can currently be held
I noticed he didn't mention tolerances.
If this is actually useful in a shop, I imagine it's very rare. Makes for a great vid tho
It comes out more that than I was expecting. It was a few weeks ago but I am pretty sure the squares were flat within .001-.002. the Hex was a little more concave at .003 but If I had used more inserts at a different ratio it would of been better
The diameter of the live tool as well as the ratio of rotation between part and tool have an effect on the concave effect. Usually there is never tight tolerances on angled polygons, and for flat polygons, well concave doesn't change anything because the wrench grips the edges of the polygon, which is what your caliper reads also
The results speak for themselves! Very cool!
I'm curious, do the flat edges have a slightly concaved surface or are they truly flat?
The square was flat within .001 and the hex was flat within .003. If you did 3 inserts instead of 2 the hex will be flat within .001
veeeery slighty concave yes
Hola saludos desde Uruguay genios totales soy de la vieja escuela de fresas y tornos esto me encanta todo lo pueden hacer. Las diferentes de piezas por ejemplo un cuadrado o un triángulo cabía la pieza si cambia la relación de RPM entre la pieza y la herramienta perdón si no entendí saludos
Milling. Great video Ms. Pérez!
Just saw a guy recently do this with a manual lathe, was super impressive
I would love to see that , but absolutely don't believe you
@@jacobkudrowich its a Russian dude who does it lemme see what I can find for you
@@jacobkudrowich his channel name is Mehamozg. Also I just looked up manual polygonal turning and it was the 3rd video that popped up after make it extremes video on a similar setup as Meha
This is how you make a video. Great job and amazing process
I'm going with turning.
Turning: the action or skill of using a lathe.
Lathe: a machine for shaping ... material by means of a rotating drive which turns the piece being worked on against changeable cutting tools.
So part go round fast = lathe and lathe = turning.
Donnie, Great Video! You had me cracking up at the end of the video🤣🤣🤣
Well i was not expecting that today, this trade keeps surprising me at every turn. So glad glad i chose this path 😀!
Milling as I was taught is when the part is stationary and the bit that is removing material is above said material.
Just saw this channel for the first time and I gotta say I'm glad Timmy stopped wearing dresses after his time at WKUK and got into the trades!
Yaaaassssss! More Slow Motion!😎
Tilling. Millurning. Seriously though, y'all could name it whatever you want, it would be in the machinist dictionary by next year. You ALL are changing subtractive and additive manufacturing for the better, in sooooo many ways👍👍 THANKS
Well, given that both the tool and the workpiece are rotating I would say it's both, milling and turning at the same time.
hahaha, this guy's pretty funny. Educational video as well, cheers guys 👍
This is the best way to cut stringy material! UHMWPE!
You're killing it Donnie 😆
Very cool, love this video!!!!!
Haha the end was epic 😁👍
This is like if Josh from Drake & Josh ended up being a complete CNC badass.
Turning is rotating an object with a static, by reference, tool. Milling is rotating a tool with a static, by reference, object. This has both a rotating tool and rotating object. So at a surface level, it could be considered both.
But if you want to get stupidly technical, it's primarily a lathe with a manipulated mill-like tool; the object is constant, the tool in reference is not constant in position. So technically intermittent turning at rates that are inhuman to accomplish. You could hypothetically produce similar results without a mill-like tool, just adjust linear position of the cutter at stupidly fast rates, essentially a robotic cross-slide; very similar to the concept of a rose engine, but different in execution and at much faster speeds. Thus intermittent turning should be the proper term, because the mill-like tool only simplifies the process mechanically, though this is at the sacrifice of the linearity of the polygonal sides.
For example, if you put a fourth axis on a mill, does the mill also turn into a lathe? No, because of which part is rotating and which part is static by reference. It's the same here.
That's so cool, but I'm happy to leave the math to someone else who enjoys that. I wish I could just hang out and sweep up the shop and look over your shoulder as you turned these
Any input on trochoidal turning. When the cross slide moves in and out in time to turn hexes and squares.
Yes we will do a video on eccentric turning in the future for sure! Good idea!!!
@@donniehinske I have an excel program to spit out the G code for that. Master Cam and F360 don't seem to have it.
Polygon milling is so cool, I use it on quite a few parts I produce. One thing I have not been able to figure out is how to time the polygon milling with other features on the part without physically rotating the polygon mill on the spindle. If anyone knows the answer I would love to know!
It’s more on your machines capabilities than anything. I used G53 CDR0 (R0-360) to set the timing of the live tools spindle to the main spindle. You will notice in the part the squares are all 20 degrees apart from eachother. If the machine can’t sync your live tool in the same spot everytime like that then you are kind of screwed.
What machine are you working on? I may be able to help
@@donniehinske thanks for the reply, I’m running Hanwha XD-20h machines. My polygon mill is in a front working slot on the sub side. It is driven by the sub spindle. I have never tried that line of code you mentioned. All my polygonal work is on the same plane like a simple hex shape. So I only need to orientate the cut at setup.
@@chipper203 ah I see! I’m not sure if that code would work on a Hanwha. I’ve only ever worked on a few of them so I don’t know the code as well as I do other machines. I am sure there has to be a way to do it though
@@donniehinske I gotcha, it is a fanuc 18i control I forgot to mention
That is pretty cool, I have heard of it but didnt know that much about it. Charles
As someone who isn't a machinist, I would think it's mill-turning or turn-milling.
To my mind, milling is a rotating tool while turning is a rotating part.
Since you're using a rotating part and a rotating tool, it would be both milling and turning at the same time. So mill-turning or turn-milling.
Very cool
Like the X Mass ear rings
"Don't put that in there"
*Morgan Freeman voice* Little did he know, the editor would indeed put it in there.
Love this guy!!!
OMG, I saw a video of this many many years ago and I always wanted to see it again but could never find it and I didn't know what it was called.
The best way for me to think about this is a planer with an indexing head just much faster and the rotation never stops
These codes are pertinent to the world of swiss. What about applying it to the Mori Seiki Lathe NLX2500-SY700? I challenge myself to do this for cycle time purposes. Is there a manual way to program this cycle if the G251 code is not avail? Or is this opiton something that can be turned on in the parameters?
I liked the concept
I'm curious, could you have used this process to cut the disco ball?
That is a VERY interesting question. That would be a very high ratio in order to create all those sides. Not sure how it would work but I just may try it! Thank you!!!
@@donniehinske you might have to hire a wizard to make it work 🤣
Really interested to see if that is even possible. Good luck!
I'm glad I'm not the only wacko in a machine shop 😂
I love this guy 😂😂😂
Greetings from France =)
Great working beautiful boom 💥💥
wow amazing, its turning with a live turning tool so its turning
does this method have a max diameter cutoff limit? seems like it'd stall out cutting a 5 inch square.. i'd love to try that on some 5-8 inch squares
Should get Barry to wear those ear rings.
Nice machine.
Not gonna happen!
I'm really interested in trying this method.
lovely, waiting for the rose engine attachment version lol
well i think both terms turning and milling are right, since you are still turning your material, but you are also spinning a tool
I would say it is both.
I need to ask in the company what they think.
I work at Sistro in Austria!
Loved the ending of 😂😂
This is wild.
What software do you use to program the swiss? I use partmaker and am programming for Star CNC Swiss machines.
This was programmed by hand but we use MasterCam for our CAM programming needs
I'm Dutch , yeah yeah that💨💨 windMIILL💨💨 country in Europe
Milling meaning all parts turn to make some thing...so i guess you where miling .
Grtz john
I do this on my wood lathe when im trying to make walking sticks. Not intentionally. I need better stability.
I would watch full length videos.
Actually i think it is neither and both and the general term for it is polygonal machining! Because According to the definitions i learned "turning is the machining process where an axially non rotating cutting edge feeds into an axially rotating part" and "milling is the process where an axially rotating cutting edge feeds into an axially non rotating part (i know this is throne of by multiaxial but... )".
Well, for the sake of support comment: it's both turning and milling at the same time. If only one word is allowed in this game, you have to go with machine used: for a lathe it's turning. Stright old-school CNC lathes do some limited milling, which can be called such if the billet is not turning.. And then you got the fancy combo machines with 9 axis and we're lost again. But that's nomenclature and philosophy, beyond the scope of machining world.
Therefore i suggest back to basics neutral world for either of them: machining. Or call it cutting, whatever we do with our piece in cycle, it's cutting (unless you do it with a broken tool).
I mean if you define turning as workpiece being rotated while the tool stays still and milling as tool rotating and workpiece staying still I suppose this is both?
this will be amazing for the knight piece in chess
ITS TURNING!!!
omg. love it😆
4th for this awesome sharing session!
First done in the UK 30 yrs ago to turn hexagonal.
since you want to read it so badly "its obviously milling you dingyus" :) but to me it looks more like a turning while its not 100% true because in classic turning only part is rotating while in milling only tool is rotating.
Really cool ! Anyone thinks it's weird how he says polygonal ? 😂
2:35 - I'd call it millturning?
Nice
Did you put it in a lathe or in a mill?
Where can I find those inserts?
Can flatness of pentagonal face be achieved within 0.1 ?
Definitely turning because the object being milled eherrrm lathed is rotation. You don’t mill moving parts, you turn them
Awesome 😎
holy shit the head waggle xD
can i use this on a Mazak Lathe ? with no Cam available?
Dude is louder the the microwave beep at 2am
You know if you hold the 2 button down it silences your microwave. At least on mine it does.