You can get a way above average job by being a good presenter, idk how that’s rylly a burn. You definitely give off the “If your not a multimillionaire entrepreneur then what are u doing with your life” type energy
He's not really trashing it. He has a valid point. Best managers are those who have worked in their field for a while, learned as much as possible about its ins and out, then pursued an MBA for a leadership position in their domain. That way, you get expert leaders, not bloated egos that know nothing about the technical side of their products but harass employees who need guidance rather than being chastised.
Knowing the ins and outs of a company and being able to manage it properly are two different things, that's why you see so many companies prosper after the original founders were sacked, ironically enough this is EXACTLY what happened at Tesla since Elon took over and pretty much got rid of the founders and look where it is now.
Experience is the education. Ppl need to stop calling the peice of paper "education" it's just a paper to separate yourself from all the other Experienced ppl.
As an engineer with an MBA, I totally agree. There is no substitute for real-world experience. However, MBA's were designed to supplement knowledge not replace it. It helps people that don't have the opportunity to gain business knowledge from their work environment.
basicaly, the MBA is for people to get promoted... not for a first job. so an engineer can become an engineering manager. not so a green horn can become a super-intendant.
I did the same route. Engineering for project managers. Even had to read case studies about this exact scenario Musk is talking about. Where greenhorn engineers with MBA’s parachute in and many of the blue collar employees view their new manager as not so much inept but view their manager as “having not earned their spot”. Best way to ease this tension is for both parties to recognize they are in the same team, to understand that both are going to work hard, and that just because scholastic work is more mental than physical that there is a lot of hard work involved to get those degrees. Unfortunately, Musk is very correct that those degrees have become devalued recently. The younger generation is told to “go to school” to procure a better future. But when they finally get out of school there are no jobs or companies refuse to hire them due to “lack of experience”. Really is a catch 22.
He’s not trashing the MBA. He’s trashing the mindset that some people may have behind what an MBA would do for them. Basically calling out those who think an MBA is their catalyst into leadership. There are a lot of pathways for advancement. I wish hard work and being good at your job was all that mattered, but unfortunately it is not. Otherwise the demographics of executive leadership would look very different in the U.S.
You need to understand something in life. When people give a reason, you need to understand the REAL reason. Yes he is trashing the MBA, but he's being nice about it. 99% of people arent gonna be leaders because it requires one to be a polymath, know a lot about a lot of things, sacrifice, valor, honor, high painthreshold, etc. Many combinations at a high level that most people wont have
After working for 23 years, getting my MBA was the best and most rewarding decisions of my life. He’s right, an MBA for someone with zero work experience is useless. Its like sending someone to cooking school who has never eaten then hiring them as a head chef 🤷♀️ What misguided hiring manager would ever put a student with zero experience into a leadership position is the real question.
No it's not and he is not right. You people are so weird. Why do you think people with a MBA won't learn anything in their employment and can grow from where they start? Like wtf is this fallacious way of thinking.
@@JackRR15 .....sounds like you are one of those "experts" who knows everything right from the start. I have worked with people like you before. Always full of answers .....but unable to think. .
@@JackRR15work experience here says he is right🤷♂️ Had some talks about about as to "whyTF" and the reasoning was that the people in position know their work and if they were to promote them they might lose actual manpower.
Its refreshing to hear this, especially as an engineer. It feels like almost all companies went down this route of only MBAs are allowed in management and the engineering can be outsourced or swapped out. I've gotten sick of leaders that dont even know how to use the products they supposedly lead.
My last company was like this. The guy in charge of the engineers was NOT an engineer and you could see all the problems were rooted in him not being competent to lead them because he doesn’t know what they do or how they do it.
I totally agree with Elon, I got my MBA from Penn and most of my classmates didn´t give a damn about the courses, they just wanted to get the degree to go boss around
I hear you. I did my MBA at one of FT Top 50 schools, and I can confidently say that I only learned something from 10% of the class. Everyone else was just in there for the degree, and they had nothing valuable to share.
This was my biggest frustration working as a COO and board members on a publicly traded company. There are people that have a certification for everything you can imagine, yet understand none of it.
That's why so many corporations want individuals with plenty of workforce experience because there, you are exposed in an environment that tests the thinking capacity and understand of the job description... Most fresh-out-of-college graduates barely understand much because they've been rushed through the system and bombarded with material that takes a lot of time to really digest and utilize in a practical situation later in life... They just memorize as much as they can for that exams and that's it... Forget all that the next day and you have a 'graduate'... To most individuals, that experience is a commodity they can never attain without being given the chance to try and fail first... This has to come at the expense of the corporation aiming for profits and those risks, they'll never take... So we end up stuck in a failing system that's only benefiting a minority and failing a majority...
I hear you, its a weird divide that should not exist. Its counterproductive to success. As the data and analytics muscle that understands all facets, I have turned very cautious on who and how much I help. Too many years of getting burned by the glory hunting pretenders. It sucks, because my caution does not get the company the best help which makes me even more mad. At the same time, how many times does a person have to allow the exploitation? 🤷♂️
I noticed this as well burned me bad last time i was on the hiring team for a new engineer guy had a masters in engineering management. And a bunch of certs i didnt look close enough at the work history due to being impressed by the schooling compared to my just a bachelors. 3 months into hiring the guy he constantly made junior engineer mistakes and quit in about 10 months
I make a point of never hiring people with too many qualifications. Those types are almost always useless at doing actual work. Work history beats certs every time.
Elon's points are all extremely well taken, however I will also say that personally going back for an MBA (the education, not the degree) was one of the best decisions I ever made. It was the only way I would have been able to stop working long enough to finish my education. Having the education (not the degree) continually enables me to keep my company out of trouble, mostly by being able to stop bad decisions and make persuasive arguments framed in terms of a P&L.
I never understood why corporations would hire a manager with no experience in the company, overlooking a hardworking employee who has been there for years
It’s funny he says this but yet they don’t hire people that don’t have degrees pay attention to that, “you don’t need a degree” then they only hire the best with degrees
You have wrong info.there r plenty of freelance engineers and people who work in his companies without degrees but ofc you have to be exceptional for that.
he is talking about MBAs not standard University Degree .. and I do agree most people do an MBA primarly because they think it will give them more networking and visibility so they can get a better job .. they don't do it because they can learn something more.
Leadership is the only attribute that still till this day has no degree that properly represents it’s qualities. He has a very valid point and if you think he is trash talking you don’t understand what it takes to be a leader. Schools can’t really teach you how to be good at this, at best they can only give you examples. Life is best at teaching this!
People might not like my POV but the way I see a MBA is taking the easy path and buying your way to a higher management role bc of 3 reasons. 1) Most things under “business” can self tought 2) As a Comp sci major most comp sci majors or engineering majors that can’t keep up most of the time switch to business because it easy 3) If you wanted a degree that pays extremely well, law or the medical field is only a additional 2 years of school
Actually you are wrong about law. The perception that law is the highest paid degree is an outdated perception from people who are oblivious to the economic projections of the future, and blindly relying upon past reputation. According to expert economic predictions, computer science and finance will have higher median and 90th percentile incomes over law due to the advancements in AI and technology. Even some sectors in engineering will exceed law like biotechnology and renewable energy. You have to keep up with the times.
Yeah in the "corporate world" it's all about presentation. Who cares whether you have the knowledge and technical edge, you just need to look like you know what you're doing. The thing about working a job is that it's not really about hard work, it's about taking the minimal effort to upward movement.
Exactly. This is capitalism. This is playing the game. Trying to only work your way up is risky because you can get laid off or hurt etc then you look so much worse on paper for the next job 100%.. Not everybody has the same path.
Yea Ima go with what's been stated, Elon isn't trashing MBAs, he's simply stating that MBA grads have this misconception that they'll be automatically great leaders once they join the workforce because of their completed education. But that's the thing, and education teaches you the fundamentals and sets a great foundation from where you can build on, and eventually establish yourself as a great leader but youre still starting at the bottom if you dont have the work experience
Actually there's a great barrier where the best MBA products are lousily treated and it takes years and years if working hard before you are given the opportunity but that time the desire and fire is gone in many case. And worse the knowledge also evaporates to an extent and bad habits set in.
Musk came from money. His father was a multi-millionaire who owned emerald mines in South Africa and his mother was a supermodel. His parents helped fund his startups. We don't all have rich family to invest in our endeavors. Some people need to get the MBA just to get their foot in the door, qualify for promotions within a company, or to get a sufficient loan to start a business.
@@PatrickPierceBateman Walter issacson's biography goes in depth about the rumor and how it spread all over the internet so that idiots like you could use that as an excuse to hate and never do anything with your life. Whats your evidence? lol REDDIT?
@@PatrickPierceBateman I promise you even with a hundred emarald mines you won't be able to do shit with you life and not even 1/100th of what elon has done so good job with that pathetic excuse
@@PatrickPierceBateman provide one piece of solid evidence of the location of this mine, its history, and how musk was a part of it. Should be pretty easy for you big boy mr evidence
I have an MBA and I need to be hands on to test theories we set forth. But, Elon isn’t bashing it, he’s just saying, living it is better than just saying it. Which I agree.
You're not an MBA, maybe you've completed an MBA. That's the reason Elon said, you don't tell anyone about it, especially if you think you are an MBA. Heheheheh!!
I am currently doing an MBA. I agree with him, but I honestly don't know anyone in my class that plans to just slot into a leadership position without having the experience. The MBA just gives you the leg up over ppl with the same experience. If I had to pick between someone with 15 years experience and someone with an MBA and only 3 years experience I will take the person with more experience. But between 2 people who both have 15 years experience but one has the MBA, then its a no brainer.
When MBA's were "invented" it was a ticket to higher management from middle management. A prerequisite was 6 years working in a management position. As Universities saw this as an opportunity to rake in more dough, the business school's departments of Economics changed the requirements having a degree in Business, and then to anyone with a degree and now to anyone with the money. An MBA currently is just more debt.
Well said. It's the same with most over- advertised degrees and diplomas and certifications. They're hyped because they're hollow and make the school a lot of money.
@@aloysiusdevanderabercrombi470 And hiring people is contracted out to recruiting companies who only look at paper qualifications. I got rejected for technical jobs because years of experience and applicable tech certifications didn't meet the "university graduate" criteria.
I've worked for many managers, been a manager, hired managers, and seen people grow to be managers. It can be taught, but many of the great ones move their way up and get promoted naturally
true, hes kinda too extreme. Getting MBA should not be the goal but instead, it just helps people to make connections in the business world and to get more opportunities, and the knowledge learned there might not make you an elite business man instantly but sure helps in some sort of way
It way be worth spending time in some of the other responses in the comment section and cross checking that with job postings on tesla/spacex. Not everything requires a degree, especially the more business oriented positions.
thats true because academics teach you whats written in a book but if you want to run or start a business it's very practical, there are no books about this. There is no step by step guide how to start a successful company, it depends on million things and a lot of it you just have to figure out as you go, it's not possible prepare yourself for it in the school
Often the problems with MBAs is that they view a companies product as it's stock and their #1 incentive is to maximize their/bonus compensation before they're gone.
This is a weird analogy but this reminded me of what I hear from my friends who did active duty in the military. The soldier who started off a non com sergeant, led his platoon through a year of combat, and then made it through promotion to 2nd Lt through grit.. is an infinitely better leader than the man who went to west point, automatically graduates LT and is deployed right into leading battle hardened men without an ounce of Frontline experience simply because he completed officer school.
for their technical roles - and that's only for applicants looking at stem related positions. Looking at project managers, business roles, etc Tesla and SpaceX both value actual OTJ experience. Edit: changed Look to Looking to better match verb tense.
@@assasination1100 Go review the job postings for SpaceX and Tesla - I'd link you out here but unfortunately youtube doesnt allow external links in comments. The types of jobs I referred to do not require collegiate level education. Of course it's going to be recommended, but these jobs typically require 5+ years relevant PM experience and a business certification from an accredited organization. To answer your question no, I'm not willing to relocate from my current location just to work for a Musk founded company. I'm already sitting pretty with an engineering gig where I'm currently at. Cheers!
What amazes me as a worker is how senior management always knows how to 'transform work in an organization' yet I don't recall teams I've worked in being asked what the problems are. Must be psychic talent.
I have an MBA from a top 5 school, and I agree. Understanding how the company works is key. I run my company, and I still spend about a day per week working in departments to really understand.
This is how I've felt every day for such a long time. PMP/PMO's are now another wave of this problem; a bunch of people who've taken certification courses in "project management" and come into organizations, technology in my experience, and are given Project Manager titles without knowing anything about what's actually involved in managing the projects. They just schedule meetings (include upper mgr's), and ask the engineers other team members what needs to be done. Next meeting: ask them if those tasks were done and ask what needs to be done next, and repeat that routine at the following meeting. That's not management. It's a secretary taking minutes and parroting back the engineers and other team members that actually know how to run the projects. Then they present the progress of the projects in meetings to senior management, taking credit for managing projects by virtue of their misleading titles and their access to senior management (who really hire them so that they can hand down distasteful demands through an intermediary and not have to face the professionals who actually do the heavy lifting of coordinating and delivering technically complex projects through their own collaboration).
I used to think the same, but you've missed a key component. Project Managers/Product Owners and Program Managers are also points of risk ownership. They own a delegated amount or designated level of risk of that project. So yes, they are hands off and are good at using Teams/Skype/WebEx for meeting booking. They also hold higher levels of delegation and weight within a strategic leadership chain. Its extremely beneficial to have someone like that onside, if you yourself don't have enterprise influence or presence within the chain of command. I will say, I have worked for/met both shit and good managers between military and corporate life. There is bigger incentives to nourishing your team with praise, noting the quality of work if you bear the burden/hold the delegation + stress for them. I'm not a PM, but I am a tasking lead and have been so on and off for a decade, so I have a myriad of experience as an individual contributor/team member and then a senior SME/Lead. There is a common denomination of quiet workers who don't posture themselves properly when conducting work and also allow poor leadership to occur. You don't have to be a position of authority, to be a good leader.
I'd also add, there are areas of delegation that are specified to those members within the strategic leadership chain. Being a risk owner is one, being a representative of enterprise is another given, being cognisant of contract/deliverables is another. Expectation Management (internal and external), Customer Management (or accounts, pending how your organisation structure is). The PMs I work with do not have it easier and unfortunately, despite what people think, your workload does not get easier as you progress. It becomes complicated and there are often more expectations of you (behavioural, enterprise knowledge, problem solving, addition meetings). Due to the complexity of the work, you need SMEs that are on tools and specialised at that problem solving, to give you that quality checked input. Then the PM owns the risk of it. People often say Managers don't do shit, but I still feel even as a lead, that I lose 18hours a week to meetings plus OT I do as a requirement of role, where as my troops are clocked out to meet our fatigue calculators requirements. Not a single one does more than 40 hours a week (as per their agreement, to get extra time off each month). But for me, I juggle execution roles + senior SME input and its extremely derailing doing both. Having people within the chain of command that can soak and babysit some ADHOC taskings/deliverables is extremely handy and it also helps prompt other departments input (especially when you're not getting their support). So there are perks and benefits to those roles in a chain of command and its up to every person individually to make a work environment where open conversations can happen, limiting shitbag behaviour that would be deemed stealing glory/thunder.
I do agree with this. An MBA is not as useful from a knowledge standpoint. BUT, I have a few friends who did their MBA through work, and got is sponsored 100% by work. They were already senior devs, managers, even directors. But they decided to go for connections and meeting new minds. There a lot of fun case studies and courses you take as an MBA student, and I think its worth checking out if your workplace offers a part-time enrolment sponsorship (and if you don't have a family to look over; prioritize your family). Its funny because even as a student, some of my upper year friends have done coop placements as managers and leads, and they said its always funny because they sometimes have people under them, real graduates (some masters degree holders), who report to someone who hasn't even completed their degree. Very funny and you do get a lot of weird looks. Competence isn't determined by your degree, but for now, especially with a lot of 1980s mentality people working, it's hard to be taken seriously. Time will change this though.
You need to be a junior business analyst or project manager and pay your due. No body should parachute into anything. Leadership is empathy and you only get empathy thru work experience. Understand what the low level employees go thru before you become a Director or Manager.
and lots of companies allow this to happen, the onboarded directors/managers do well #s wise for several quarters or years, then the company typically flops because the method isnt sustainable.
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 We also as a society have to rethink how make valuations. Economics and moreover administration need to be examined if we are truly going to in the direction of sustainable capitalism. Technocracy in the 30's is one of things that I'm surprised hasn't gained more steam politically as stem and digital capitalism begin to dominate the global north and other industrialized economies.
@@timmanto1022 Totally on the same page. From where I'm sitting, most people would rather remain blind and just continue to enjoy their bread and circuses unfortunately
From my experience, business can be learned fairly easily... I think studying a sector of STEM that inspires you is much more valuable in innovation and product creation. Elon Musk is a clear example of that.
I haven't went to business school or have a master's in business but I'm working pretty well as Marketing Manager (after spending 6 years as marketer). So what Elon is saying is 100% true. You need to have ground level experience before working as a manager or director
Seems to be the case with a lot of graduate schemes I've seen floating around online for various companies. Saw a supermarket posting about how a uni graduate had joined them through their graduate program and gone straight in as regional manager, they could only have been like 23 at the most so it seems strange that you'd bring someone new into your company and immediately give them that much responsibility.
Says the man who was born rich, with blood diamonds. For the rest of us, who have to carve their way up the ladder, an mba might be a good choice. But street smarts and emotional intelligence are far more important.
Elon had privileged upbringing.. But In Canada. He worked crappy jobs..and he took alot of risk.its annoying people keep saying it's because his dad is rich that's how Elon became Elon.
Its really interesting to me that this is becoming a common attitude towards education in quite a few fields. With the wealth of information available at relatively low costs, people who have a natural predisposition for a trade or field, can work their way from the lowest rungs to the highest. Bosses who understand the work that is done at the lowest levels have a much better understanding of their capabilities and limitations.
This used to be the standard way of doing things. Back then businesses lasted alot longer and provided alot more value. Nowadays MBAs are all about their bonuses and cut, cut, cut. They dont know anything else besides slash and burn. MBAs are a stain on modern civilisation period! Know the cost of everything and the value of nothing...
Agreed, but what do you say to people like me who have spent the equivalent of the price of a home (not to mention all the years of depriving yourself of a social life) on their education because we were all told that this was the best way to get a good career - "tough luck"??
@@annieholbis2430 The only consolation I believe I can offer is a bit of empathy. I joined the service after high school. Most of my friends, at 17-19 years of age, bravely took on loans that will haunt their existence for the next decade or two. I got out after 3 years with a guaranteed education free of charge and good work experience. The library and clep exams have become my dearest of friends. There is a flaw in the boot strap theory, because the decision making process of most people is heavily affected by forces which exist beyond the realm of their consciosness. My heart really does go out to anyone who was never exposed to the alternative. Nevertheless, we as a society (US) have the almost pathological need to associate a degree (which essentially anyone can get, if they pay) with authority, competence, and prestige. We need to embrace our blue collar folk as the indispensable assets to society that they are, rather than as the “uneducated”.
100% agree. I earned a design degree and about 18 years later I earned an MBA at night for the ability to have more meaningful discourse with those that earned an mba in the director executive ranks. What I came to realize was, more than not, the upper ranks were filled with posers and scared they would be found out. It many ways having an mba threatened many directors and executives that were accustomed to dismissing my art skills as incidental. Now I arrive with decades of professional design experience and some certified business acumen (mba) ... and it impedes my ability to collaborate with the executives I was seeking to reach out to.
you may or may not do well to relocate to a different market, including that known as the internet. i have no idea what/how you do, but you might be the fish trying to grow in the wrong pond(s). similarly, read 48 Laws of Power and anything else by Robert Greene. you-yourself say it: you are dealing with threatened-feeling people. whether within your company or immediate market, you have to play the game to your best advantage at least until you get into something else, somewhere else. And people skills, for those who are threatened, or for those who have the myriad other foibles/problems of humanity, said people skills will never go out of style or out of need. the above said, if they don't want to work with you, go find those who view your experiences/talents as a plus, not a threat. similarly, for sake of a controlled experiment, you may want to leave mba off any resume you send out, then wait until right time in interviewing process (or not) to share of that particular credential. don't stay stuck. don't be afraid to try anything crazy. you're in the art field, there's shitloads of ways and places you can bring your full skillset/talents to bear so long as you don't get picky. you might have other problems, but you won't be stuck anymore, and first progress brings further progress if you keep on it. as Mursal Noor says "you can't stop here, go do your thing"
Yes, I moved from being a pure historian into economics and business and found that history skills are really valuable. Like when the poo hits the fan they always ask "What happened?"
He is SOOOOOOO right. When I was in the Navy, I was assigned to run several places with a large amount of staff. My first month was spent meeting everyone and finding out just what everyone did to make the place work. Only when I understood how everything works could I then start tweaking the operation to make it more efficient and customer friendly.
He is so right about this. I’ve worked with countless people in my career who have zero leadership ability or are just downright awful leaders/managers, and they get an “executive MBA” and get celebrated for it. They spend 18 months going to school trying to learn how to be a good manager or leader of people and it doesn’t work. I think MBA programs are best for people who already are good managers and leaders but want to supplement their current real world experience and possibly move to higher positions.
My father taught me the value of being able to do every job you expected others to do. I emptied trash containers, I mopped, I watched and made sure my community was safe. I learned, appreciated and maintained. In the end, I kept the peace. I did that for 1,565 apartments. I grew up doing that. It was my life.
He's not trash talking MBAs, so low of you, had to cut the exact part he was explaining how they are valuable in a different sense. All comment haters have no MBA and couldn't get into HBS! Lol we understand guys
The number of student I have met during the management studies that wanted to do MBA so they can be director/ceo was ridiculous. A leader must know the reality of the operations so he understands fully why they are proposing the ideas they are proposing.
Basically degree provides evidence of one's abilities (atleast theoretically). Otherwise how else would you convince someone that you are good at something without them knowing you?
I'm a chemical engineer who has worked up into an area manger position within a chemical plant. I'm going to MBA school because I want to learn the business side of things and eventually want to be a leader within my company. I think that is the right way to go
Entirely different. Working in Tesla corp, yes a degree in engineering - mechanical, aerospace, software engineering, even degrees in mathematics or physics would be desired. An MBA is entirely different, it's practically useless and a waste of money.
A lot of people at Tesla corp hold a degree, yes, but they're not there because they hold a degree as much as it is a byproduct of it and something useful. Because even Elon Musk said you don't need a college degree to work at Tesla.
I took my state's MBA program because 1) it's cheaper, 2) I'm close to home, 3) I needed some business knowledge since biology was my major from undergrad.
I wonder if he thinks billionaires shouldn’t automatically become CEOs of companies they buy and have no experience in…they just parachute in and buy and start making random changes. Wtf is X?
There are two types of people. People who read and have a lot of bookish knowledge. People who work in the real world and have a lot of real world experience. And guess what, no matter how many books you read, how many theories, philosophies, and ideas you read, none of those can compare to the experience you gain from actually working in the real space. Sure, for STEM fields, you need to study, get a degree, and then get a job. But after getting a job, its all the real world experience that helps you become a better at your job. But, in other fields, you don't really need to read hundreds of books to know what to do, just get your ass up, start working, and learn as you go. Most self made millionaires and billionaires were not Ph.D Graduates, they read enough to get started, and once they started, they kept grinding and improving.
@@4biFarm the apartment they rented was actual a store-front/business office they rented and slept in (for a 1/2 year or so) from what I've read. Definitely not the standard path and considering he went to Wharton and is now the richest man in the world i'd take his practical advice over a random university advocate personally :)
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 his dad owned a emerald mine he also invested 29k in his first business so I'm pretty sure Elon musk was well offf even before he sold zip 2
@@RandomVideos-kn3pf oh no doubt: he definitely had a better group of investors than most people did at his age - not to mention the support system therein. I dont think that should detract from the accomplishments he's been able to achieve in his 50 years of life though... granted it's mostly through building of teams and being the first to act on some big ideas, still no small feat
I ran a mechanic shop fixing autos I found that the techs that went to tech school were scared shitless to try fixings things that they weren't trained while the mechanic that was a high school drop out that been taking things apart and learning how they worked was never afraid to take things apart and try to fix it and from that day I realized education isn't always the answer for best employee it helps but it doesn't prove the experience and skill needed to innovate.
Exactly! And once these incompetent corporate heads occupy their positions they will GATE KEEP, preventing qualified individuals from stepping foot into their company because they’re afraid of losing their positions.
As much as I've experienced applying for MBAs, MBAs in USA do seem to care about leadership skills to an extent and mandate work experience (3+ yrs) to be considered eligible for the MBA programs. But when I come to Indian B-schools, the condition is deplorable. 9/10 B-schools in India, even the premier ones, have no minimum work ex requirement due to which majority of the class joins MBA straight out of undergrad. They do not make good managers, and def not good leaders atleast from what I've experienced after working under such people
So much true. Indian MBA have no clue how to solve a problem. Most of the times they play blame game. They don't know how to bring in profits without cutting employees off. There best friend is tell 1 guy to do 20 guy work and save money for company. They are worst in problem solving but like to show off alot.
He's right. But there is also a reason why people pay so much fuckin money to go to these MBA programs. The job/ networking opportunities u get from the name on the diploma is what ur paying for, not the education
Goes for almost everything. All knowledge is available online but it takes time to be certified & you get privileges. Musk himself was doing PhD in Physics. I very much doubt he would have been so successful if he didn't utilise his contacts he made there to venture into business afterwards. He's not your average fellow if he was doing PhD in a STEM field.
@@gabbar51ngh Actually getting a PhD in STEM is different from starting it and dropping out of it. Anyone with a good enough bachelor's in physics can do a PhD and I don't think you need to be that smart to get a good enough bachelor's in physics. As long you're not completely dumb it should be fine. Completing a PhD is a different thing altogether. Not saying Elon Musk is not smart. Just saying that starting a PhD is not a big deal.
@@achyuththouta6957 you are assuming getting a bachelor's in physics is that easy & anyone can do it. That's not really the case based of how many fail to do STEM in general.
I agree and have an MBA. Too many of my peers had a 'parachuting in' and short cuts mentality and stagnated later. It's a great course for condensing 10 or 15 years of business experience, but it's only a starting point to going deeper. If you really build knowledge on top of an MBA, then business becomes a playground.
It's like this in most organizations where the mid level manager came from another field and doesn't know the intricacies of the business, culture, or history of the department 💯
He’s actually totally and completely right. I’ve witnessed this firsthand. The managers at my company who got MBAs got hired in as managers but they know significantly less about the processes of the company than the people who got hired in at the bottom and often times there are people below them who know significantly more than they do but struggle to get promoted because they don’t have a degree. While they somewhat deserve to be hired into management from the get go because they put in the time to get a degree it is definitely frustrating when people who know so much less about the inner workings of a company are the ones making more than you and exercising authority over you. But that’s just how it is. But having an MBA definitely does not equate to knowing how to lead.
No he's not. You are taking some very particular situations to fit your narrative while disregarding all the other times a MBA hire won't do what you said.
You said that these people somewhat deserve the job because they put in the time to get a degree. Why would anyone's time matter? Things should be based only on merit. Some people can put countless hours into things and still suck at them.
@@JackRR15 Yes, but the narrative is true in many situations. It's not that an MBA is worthless. It has value when someone also has experience. But these guys/gals hired from top universities with those degrees often get placed in executive roles without work experience. The VP of Product Development at my former company was like that. She had no experience in the business world except for a few college internships at Bain Capital. However, she has an engineering degree from MIT and an MBA from Stanford. She was smart but had no idea what she was doing. We spent 6 months teaching her the job instead of making progress on our products. We had the education and experience, but she had the status of those prestigious universities. You see that sort of thing a lot in the tech world.
A mandatory requirement for MBA candidates should be Project Manager in their CV, that's how you understand to deal with how things go within a company and especially people.
Funny how we very often used to focus our attention on Elon during my MBA, because of his unique leadership skills and entrepreneurial abilities. I somehow believed at the time, he wanted to convince people about the unique experience of driving a Tesla. That's what resonated with me mostly at the time. It seemed he was committed in creating a unique experience. An experience you wouldn't have with any other car.
@@User-rz7de well it depends. An MBA allows you to get closer to the value of doing business, and understand different perspectives. You focus on the value of creating and generating profit. So an MBA encapsulates a set of skills development like leadership, which can help you become a better parent maybe and teach you how to be a team, understand where your value can be more concerned. This is not a perfect world and given constraints and priorities, an MBA is definitely not a guarantee, like any other degree. I am also a geologist and women are often not concidered for the job. Some people use the MBA make more money. Different people have different priorities.
Agree with this and another thing with MBAs is that they lean on it for decades (Rather than their recent achievements) thinking their opinion carries more weight purely because they sat more exams than most in College. Consistently find that MBAs / PhD's in marketing space at least are as a group the wrong people to expect to be successful.
He's right. I always believed if I went to college, id.just graduate and find a great career automatically. I didn't realize this was called "parachuting" I thought it was just the normal way. However, I still don't know what I want to be, and it's been 15 years since I graduated college.
Probably the smartest engineer who is leading consumer products as well as space exploration in our time. Elon is a pure genius! I have been waiting since 1986 for electric vehicles to match the range of gas/diesel vehicles. Elon and Tesla have done it. I am am engineer who wanted to move up into management 20 years ago and was unable to secure interviews. I asked the recruiter what I needed to do and she replied that I needed an MBA. In my 50's and after 4 yr. at night and weekends, I completed my MBA. Then, working in middle management, I interviewed and successfully moved up to executive management with the MBA. Engineers typically need the MBA for upward mobility. Elon is unbelievably smart and destined for greater things. Just watch and see the future he creates!
I agree with him. I've earned every position of leadership in various careers by starting at the bottom and learning the business. I think the real education starts when you enter the field...
MBA Course is like £18,000 and that's the Online version in the UK with the Open University, so basically it's designed for rich people who want a ticket to being "the boss" and Elon Musk is absolutely right, ive worked in places where their arrogance supersedes the functionality of the business, they get so drunk on power, like everyday is the weekend. It can be toxic, but I bet there's also those who parachute in as the boss and make an effort to learn the business and care about it - those people are the exception though
In Germany, it can cost like 300 eur/mo in an international school online, but guys what about Msc in Business Administration? In some countries like Belgium and Italy, they can cost super cheap and u can go to top EU schools for (4k euros per year or less)
People from irrelevant backgrounds getting *the job* based on just an MBA is the problem. People doing it to advance in their field is understandable. My personal experience is regretfully with the former ones. Working with middle management that have no clue how the business is run.
This man is brilliant!! So many managers who did not work up to their positions are truly clueless. Many companies have to many people reading Harvard Business Review, making changes to company policies and personal that are counter productive to the bottom line…. Use what works……..
And then tesla gives priorities to people with MBA from big university. It is his opinion, But parterns, employees and Board member still ptefer High qualified people ( at least on paper)
The problem is a heavy hitting aspect of corporate industry is the resume, of which for someone like me who’s trying to make it while I’m still young: an MBA gets me to a more competitive space vs a person with many years of experience.
I worked my way up from a videographer to Director of Marketing in 5 years. No formal education, just a strong desire to learn and work my ass off. I can tell you from experience that when I got to that level & we hired on more directors with MBA’s , they struggled to lead people, come up with good ideas, and ultimately not respected by the team. Most of them took a different job for more pay cause they couldn’t get promoted or got fired. They sucked lol. Not saying this is always the case but definitely true in my situation.
This is one college as a whole is a waste of time because they don’t teach you what you really need to know. And if you don’t know certain people to get your way in to a company you don’t ever move up most of the time.
I’m getting my MBA right now, after nearly 10 years experience in my field. The MBA teaches some useful knowledge, but that’s not why you get it. It’s purely to check a box to help move up the management ladder. My experience is far more valuable to employers than the MBA will be - the MBA is just an enhancement or a nice-to-have.
An MBA doesn’t make you an expert in anything. It gives the student a managerial overview of all business areas: economics, finance, accounting, marketing, organizational behavior, quantitative analytics, information & process systems, strategy, etc. Only top Ivy League graduates are able to “parachute” into leadership roles. For the rest of us, it hopefully makes us more rounded, and perhaps more competitive for future roles.
Great statements. Fully agree. I graduated with an MBA but had zero knowledge of professional development, behavioral coaching, and accountability needed as a store manager. I got them later after working way up and leading for 2 years.
“They could be good at PowerPoint presentations” worst burn ever 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
he just destroyed them xD
🤣
*incinerated*
Hey, the higher up the food chain you go, the more your job just becomes power point.
You can get a way above average job by being a good presenter, idk how that’s rylly a burn. You definitely give off the “If your not a multimillionaire entrepreneur then what are u doing with your life” type energy
He's not really trashing it. He has a valid point. Best managers are those who have worked in their field for a while, learned as much as possible about its ins and out, then pursued an MBA for a leadership position in their domain. That way, you get expert leaders, not bloated egos that know nothing about the technical side of their products but harass employees who need guidance rather than being chastised.
Exactly
Jokes on him I've gotten all of my jobs from the networking I did in college.
@@ANTIStraussian exactly,
he did say "I don't wanna trash mba too much"..bros :))))
Knowing the ins and outs of a company and being able to manage it properly are two different things, that's why you see so many companies prosper after the original founders were sacked, ironically enough this is EXACTLY what happened at Tesla since Elon took over and pretty much got rid of the founders and look where it is now.
Experience + education is the best combination
Lies again? Star Bucks Spank Bang
Experience is the best educator
Experience is the education. Ppl need to stop calling the peice of paper "education" it's just a paper to separate yourself from all the other Experienced ppl.
@@emmettoransky5088 yes
Which one comes first?
As an engineer with an MBA, I totally agree. There is no substitute for real-world experience. However, MBA's were designed to supplement knowledge not replace it. It helps people that don't have the opportunity to gain business knowledge from their work environment.
basicaly, the MBA is for people to get promoted... not for a first job. so an engineer can become an engineering manager. not so a green horn can become a super-intendant.
Except it doesn't. Having a masters gives a false sense of understanding when you don't have the experience to apply the knowledge.
@@BoBoZoBoyou missed the entire point of his comment.
I did the same route. Engineering for project managers. Even had to read case studies about this exact scenario Musk is talking about. Where greenhorn engineers with MBA’s parachute in and many of the blue collar employees view their new manager as not so much inept but view their manager as “having not earned their spot”. Best way to ease this tension is for both parties to recognize they are in the same team, to understand that both are going to work hard, and that just because scholastic work is more mental than physical that there is a lot of hard work involved to get those degrees. Unfortunately, Musk is very correct that those degrees have become devalued recently. The younger generation is told to “go to school” to procure a better future. But when they finally get out of school there are no jobs or companies refuse to hire them due to “lack of experience”. Really is a catch 22.
@@JM-vf8tk Negative, that's the entire point of his comment about parachuting in.
got a harvard business school ad right after the video ended 🤣🤣
🤣
😂😂😂
RUclips’s ad system bruh💀💀
I got MIT's😂
😂😂😂😂
He’s not trashing the MBA. He’s trashing the mindset that some people may have behind what an MBA would do for them. Basically calling out those who think an MBA is their catalyst into leadership. There are a lot of pathways for advancement. I wish hard work and being good at your job was all that mattered, but unfortunately it is not. Otherwise the demographics of executive leadership would look very different in the U.S.
You need to understand something in life. When people give a reason, you need to understand the REAL reason. Yes he is trashing the MBA, but he's being nice about it. 99% of people arent gonna be leaders because it requires one to be a polymath, know a lot about a lot of things, sacrifice, valor, honor, high painthreshold, etc. Many combinations at a high level that most people wont have
Can u elaborate on what matters??other than hardwork.
@@RR-et6zp what does being a polymath have to do with leadership?
@@jeffthevomitguy1178 everything
@@RR-et6zp can you use 1% of your oversized brain to elaborate to us lesser small brains what you mean by that?
After working for 23 years, getting my MBA was the best and most rewarding decisions of my life. He’s right, an MBA for someone with zero work experience is useless. Its like sending someone to cooking school who has never eaten then hiring them as a head chef 🤷♀️ What misguided hiring manager would ever put a student with zero experience into a leadership position is the real question.
No it's not and he is not right. You people are so weird. Why do you think people with a MBA won't learn anything in their employment and can grow from where they start? Like wtf is this fallacious way of thinking.
youd be surprised
@@JackRR15 .....sounds like you are one of those "experts" who knows everything right from the start. I have worked with people like you before. Always full of answers .....but unable to think.
.
@@JackRR15work experience here says he is right🤷♂️
Had some talks about about as to "whyTF" and the reasoning was that the people in position know their work and if they were to promote them they might lose actual manpower.
@@taxicamelhe’s the one with the masters degree and he’s not able to think. Do you realize the ignorance ? It’s absurd
Its refreshing to hear this, especially as an engineer. It feels like almost all companies went down this route of only MBAs are allowed in management and the engineering can be outsourced or swapped out. I've gotten sick of leaders that dont even know how to use the products they supposedly lead.
My last company was like this. The guy in charge of the engineers was NOT an engineer and you could see all the problems were rooted in him not being competent to lead them because he doesn’t know what they do or how they do it.
I totally agree with Elon, I got my MBA from Penn and most of my classmates didn´t give a damn about the courses, they just wanted to get the degree to go boss around
Same with Masters in real estate investment and finance
Exactly
So why did you get it? Genuinely curious
@@Jamjar-iu3ji For me both learning and $$$ return. Is an achievement in life regardless of financial return.
I hear you. I did my MBA at one of FT Top 50 schools, and I can confidently say that I only learned something from 10% of the class. Everyone else was just in there for the degree, and they had nothing valuable to share.
This was my biggest frustration working as a COO and board members on a publicly traded company. There are people that have a certification for everything you can imagine, yet understand none of it.
That's why so many corporations want individuals with plenty of workforce experience because there, you are exposed in an environment that tests the thinking capacity and understand of the job description...
Most fresh-out-of-college graduates barely understand much because they've been rushed through the system and bombarded with material that takes a lot of time to really digest and utilize in a practical situation later in life... They just memorize as much as they can for that exams and that's it... Forget all that the next day and you have a 'graduate'...
To most individuals, that experience is a commodity they can never attain without being given the chance to try and fail first... This has to come at the expense of the corporation aiming for profits and those risks, they'll never take... So we end up stuck in a failing system that's only benefiting a minority and failing a majority...
I hear you, its a weird divide that should not exist. Its counterproductive to success.
As the data and analytics muscle that understands all facets, I have turned very cautious on who and how much I help. Too many years of getting burned by the glory hunting pretenders.
It sucks, because my caution does not get the company the best help which makes me even more mad. At the same time, how many times does a person have to allow the exploitation? 🤷♂️
I noticed this as well burned me bad last time i was on the hiring team for a new engineer guy had a masters in engineering management. And a bunch of certs i didnt look close enough at the work history due to being impressed by the schooling compared to my just a bachelors. 3 months into hiring the guy he constantly made junior engineer mistakes and quit in about 10 months
Humble brag
I make a point of never hiring people with too many qualifications. Those types are almost always useless at doing actual work. Work history beats certs every time.
Elon's points are all extremely well taken, however I will also say that personally going back for an MBA (the education, not the degree) was one of the best decisions I ever made. It was the only way I would have been able to stop working long enough to finish my education. Having the education (not the degree) continually enables me to keep my company out of trouble, mostly by being able to stop bad decisions and make persuasive arguments framed in terms of a P&L.
I never understood why corporations would hire a manager with no experience in the company, overlooking a hardworking employee who has been there for years
It’s funny he says this but yet they don’t hire people that don’t have degrees pay attention to that, “you don’t need a degree” then they only hire the best with degrees
That's because they are more likely to find better candidates?
You don't need a degree to work for them
You have wrong info.there r plenty of freelance engineers and people who work in his companies without degrees but ofc you have to be exceptional for that.
he is talking about MBAs not standard University Degree .. and I do agree most people do an MBA primarly because they think it will give them more networking and visibility so they can get a better job .. they don't do it because they can learn something more.
Lol, no
Leadership is the only attribute that still till this day has no degree that properly represents it’s qualities. He has a very valid point and if you think he is trash talking you don’t understand what it takes to be a leader. Schools can’t really teach you how to be good at this, at best they can only give you examples. Life is best at teaching this!
Thats why degrees are a prerequisite but not necessarily the requirement.
ROTC / Military Science can do a pretty good job.
degrees are horrible
People might not like my POV but the way I see a MBA is taking the easy path and buying your way to a higher management role bc of 3 reasons.
1) Most things under “business” can self tought
2) As a Comp sci major most comp sci majors or engineering majors that can’t keep up most of the time switch to business because it easy
3) If you wanted a degree that pays extremely well, law or the medical field is only a additional 2 years of school
Actually you are wrong about law. The perception that law is the highest paid degree is an outdated perception from people who are oblivious to the economic projections of the future, and blindly relying upon past reputation. According to expert economic predictions, computer science and finance will have higher median and 90th percentile incomes over law due to the advancements in AI and technology. Even some sectors in engineering will exceed law like biotechnology and renewable energy. You have to keep up with the times.
Yeah in the "corporate world" it's all about presentation. Who cares whether you have the knowledge and technical edge, you just need to look like you know what you're doing. The thing about working a job is that it's not really about hard work, it's about taking the minimal effort to upward movement.
True
The entrepreneur cares, ..you've just been given an entrepreneur's perspective
Exactly. This is capitalism. This is playing the game. Trying to only work your way up is risky because you can get laid off or hurt etc then you look so much worse on paper for the next job 100%.. Not everybody has the same path.
@@andersonpyaban8042 vast major of people going to school arent worried about an entrepreneur’s perspective, unfortunately.
Yes Mr. Musk. Parachutes!
Yea Ima go with what's been stated, Elon isn't trashing MBAs, he's simply stating that MBA grads have this misconception that they'll be automatically great leaders once they join the workforce because of their completed education. But that's the thing, and education teaches you the fundamentals and sets a great foundation from where you can build on, and eventually establish yourself as a great leader but youre still starting at the bottom if you dont have the work experience
MBA is pretty much a worthless degree that anyone can get if they want to. It's a glorified high school diploma.
Elon has the misconception that MBA's have the conception they'll automatically be great leaders.
@@dutchdna But a lot of them do....
Actually there's a great barrier where the best MBA products are lousily treated and it takes years and years if working hard before you are given the opportunity but that time the desire and fire is gone in many case. And worse the knowledge also evaporates to an extent and bad habits set in.
If they only knew that all they have to do is overhype something and never deliver. Hyperloop, self driving cars that net you profits, etc...lol
I wanna parachute into being the boss LOL!
Musk came from money. His father was a multi-millionaire who owned emerald mines in South Africa and his mother was a supermodel. His parents helped fund his startups. We don't all have rich family to invest in our endeavors. Some people need to get the MBA just to get their foot in the door, qualify for promotions within a company, or to get a sufficient loan to start a business.
This is verifiably false
@@ADK117 "This is verifiably false."
*Provides no evidence.*
*Leaves*
@@PatrickPierceBateman Walter issacson's biography goes in depth about the rumor and how it spread all over the internet so that idiots like you could use that as an excuse to hate and never do anything with your life. Whats your evidence? lol REDDIT?
@@PatrickPierceBateman I promise you even with a hundred emarald mines you won't be able to do shit with you life and not even 1/100th of what elon has done so good job with that pathetic excuse
@@PatrickPierceBateman provide one piece of solid evidence of the location of this mine, its history, and how musk was a part of it. Should be pretty easy for you big boy mr evidence
I have an MBA and I need to be hands on to test theories we set forth. But, Elon isn’t bashing it, he’s just saying, living it is better than just saying it. Which I agree.
You're not an MBA, maybe you've completed an MBA. That's the reason Elon said, you don't tell anyone about it, especially if you think you are an MBA. Heheheheh!!
Yeah I play in the NBA!
I don't trust people who have masks on their avatar
@@behrouz6625 you have to be college educated to be dumb enough to wear a mask for an avatar.
So he might be an MBA.
I am currently doing an MBA. I agree with him, but I honestly don't know anyone in my class that plans to just slot into a leadership position without having the experience. The MBA just gives you the leg up over ppl with the same experience. If I had to pick between someone with 15 years experience and someone with an MBA and only 3 years experience I will take the person with more experience. But between 2 people who both have 15 years experience but one has the MBA, then its a no brainer.
When MBA's were "invented" it was a ticket to higher management from middle management. A prerequisite was 6 years working in a management position. As Universities saw this as an opportunity to rake in more dough, the business school's departments of Economics changed the requirements having a degree in Business, and then to anyone with a degree and now to anyone with the money. An MBA currently is just more debt.
Well said. It's the same with most over- advertised degrees and diplomas and certifications. They're hyped because they're hollow and make the school a lot of money.
@@aloysiusdevanderabercrombi470 And hiring people is contracted out to recruiting companies who only look at paper qualifications. I got rejected for technical jobs because years of experience and applicable tech certifications didn't meet the "university graduate" criteria.
I've worked for many managers, been a manager, hired managers, and seen people grow to be managers. It can be taught, but many of the great ones move their way up and get promoted naturally
Look at their actions and not words. If their job requirements still requires a degree then all what he said is utterly useless.
true, hes kinda too extreme. Getting MBA should not be the goal but instead, it just helps people to make connections in the business world and to get more opportunities, and the knowledge learned there might not make you an elite business man instantly but sure helps in some sort of way
It way be worth spending time in some of the other responses in the comment section and cross checking that with job postings on tesla/spacex. Not everything requires a degree, especially the more business oriented positions.
A lot of people are saying it’s not true that
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 yea, you dont need a degree to be a janitor at space x or tesla.
@@kaleup6164 So you pay all that money to make connections?
thats true because academics teach you whats written in a book but if you want to run or start a business it's very practical, there are no books about this. There is no step by step guide how to start a successful company, it depends on million things and a lot of it you just have to figure out as you go, it's not possible prepare yourself for it in the school
Yeah, but the diploma gets you in. It doesn't teach you anything useful, but it gets you in and then you do the rest.
@@jorgepadua5802 get in what? you mean joining existing company? I was talking about starting a new company
Often the problems with MBAs is that they view a companies product as it's stock and their #1 incentive is to maximize their/bonus compensation before they're gone.
This is a weird analogy but this reminded me of what I hear from my friends who did active duty in the military. The soldier who started off a non com sergeant, led his platoon through a year of combat, and then made it through promotion to 2nd Lt through grit.. is an infinitely better leader than the man who went to west point, automatically graduates LT and is deployed right into leading battle hardened men without an ounce of Frontline experience simply because he completed officer school.
😂🤣😂🤣😂 Reading the title of this video “I don’t want to trash MBA too much here”
Go check Tesla's job requirements. They require college degrees LOL
for their technical roles - and that's only for applicants looking at stem related positions. Looking at project managers, business roles, etc Tesla and SpaceX both value actual OTJ experience.
Edit: changed Look to Looking to better match verb tense.
@@assasination1100 Go review the job postings for SpaceX and Tesla - I'd link you out here but unfortunately youtube doesnt allow external links in comments. The types of jobs I referred to do not require collegiate level education. Of course it's going to be recommended, but these jobs typically require 5+ years relevant PM experience and a business certification from an accredited organization.
To answer your question no, I'm not willing to relocate from my current location just to work for a Musk founded company. I'm already sitting pretty with an engineering gig where I'm currently at. Cheers!
PHYSICS / ENGINEERING
He said MBAs
It's nothing but showing experience required
What amazes me as a worker is how senior management always knows how to 'transform work in an organization' yet I don't recall teams I've worked in being asked what the problems are. Must be psychic talent.
I have an MBA from a top 5 school, and I agree. Understanding how the company works is key. I run my company, and I still spend about a day per week working in departments to really understand.
This is how I've felt every day for such a long time. PMP/PMO's are now another wave of this problem; a bunch of people who've taken certification courses in "project management" and come into organizations, technology in my experience, and are given Project Manager titles without knowing anything about what's actually involved in managing the projects. They just schedule meetings (include upper mgr's), and ask the engineers other team members what needs to be done. Next meeting: ask them if those tasks were done and ask what needs to be done next, and repeat that routine at the following meeting. That's not management. It's a secretary taking minutes and parroting back the engineers and other team members that actually know how to run the projects. Then they present the progress of the projects in meetings to senior management, taking credit for managing projects by virtue of their misleading titles and their access to senior management (who really hire them so that they can hand down distasteful demands through an intermediary and not have to face the professionals who actually do the heavy lifting of coordinating and delivering technically complex projects through their own collaboration).
I used to think the same, but you've missed a key component. Project Managers/Product Owners and Program Managers are also points of risk ownership. They own a delegated amount or designated level of risk of that project. So yes, they are hands off and are good at using Teams/Skype/WebEx for meeting booking. They also hold higher levels of delegation and weight within a strategic leadership chain. Its extremely beneficial to have someone like that onside, if you yourself don't have enterprise influence or presence within the chain of command.
I will say, I have worked for/met both shit and good managers between military and corporate life. There is bigger incentives to nourishing your team with praise, noting the quality of work if you bear the burden/hold the delegation + stress for them. I'm not a PM, but I am a tasking lead and have been so on and off for a decade, so I have a myriad of experience as an individual contributor/team member and then a senior SME/Lead.
There is a common denomination of quiet workers who don't posture themselves properly when conducting work and also allow poor leadership to occur. You don't have to be a position of authority, to be a good leader.
I'd also add, there are areas of delegation that are specified to those members within the strategic leadership chain. Being a risk owner is one, being a representative of enterprise is another given, being cognisant of contract/deliverables is another. Expectation Management (internal and external), Customer Management (or accounts, pending how your organisation structure is). The PMs I work with do not have it easier and unfortunately, despite what people think, your workload does not get easier as you progress. It becomes complicated and there are often more expectations of you (behavioural, enterprise knowledge, problem solving, addition meetings). Due to the complexity of the work, you need SMEs that are on tools and specialised at that problem solving, to give you that quality checked input. Then the PM owns the risk of it.
People often say Managers don't do shit, but I still feel even as a lead, that I lose 18hours a week to meetings plus OT I do as a requirement of role, where as my troops are clocked out to meet our fatigue calculators requirements. Not a single one does more than 40 hours a week (as per their agreement, to get extra time off each month). But for me, I juggle execution roles + senior SME input and its extremely derailing doing both. Having people within the chain of command that can soak and babysit some ADHOC taskings/deliverables is extremely handy and it also helps prompt other departments input (especially when you're not getting their support). So there are perks and benefits to those roles in a chain of command and its up to every person individually to make a work environment where open conversations can happen, limiting shitbag behaviour that would be deemed stealing glory/thunder.
There is a lot of merit in what you say. That is traditionally what happens-in government projects.
Correct
This is the best comment ever
"MBA are wothless"
Also Tesla and PayPal :"We need people with masters and MBA"
MBA is pretty much a worthless degree that anyone can get if they want to. It's a glorified high school diploma.
@@AAAA-gj7tn sure buddy sure
Whatever make you sleep tonight
@@fdvkkkkkkkk4542 Facts don't care about your feelings.
@@AAAA-gj7tn what facts?
And why did you delete your comments 🤣
When I was 13 I wanted to study physics and business at University I changed my mind on the choice of business.
I do agree with this. An MBA is not as useful from a knowledge standpoint. BUT, I have a few friends who did their MBA through work, and got is sponsored 100% by work. They were already senior devs, managers, even directors. But they decided to go for connections and meeting new minds. There a lot of fun case studies and courses you take as an MBA student, and I think its worth checking out if your workplace offers a part-time enrolment sponsorship (and if you don't have a family to look over; prioritize your family).
Its funny because even as a student, some of my upper year friends have done coop placements as managers and leads, and they said its always funny because they sometimes have people under them, real graduates (some masters degree holders), who report to someone who hasn't even completed their degree. Very funny and you do get a lot of weird looks. Competence isn't determined by your degree, but for now, especially with a lot of 1980s mentality people working, it's hard to be taken seriously. Time will change this though.
You need to be a junior business analyst or project manager and pay your due. No body should parachute into anything. Leadership is empathy and you only get empathy thru work experience. Understand what the low level employees go thru before you become a Director or Manager.
and lots of companies allow this to happen, the onboarded directors/managers do well #s wise for several quarters or years, then the company typically flops because the method isnt sustainable.
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 We also as a society have to rethink how make valuations. Economics and moreover administration need to be examined if we are truly going to in the direction of sustainable capitalism. Technocracy in the 30's is one of things that I'm surprised hasn't gained more steam politically as stem and digital capitalism begin to dominate the global north and other industrialized economies.
@@timmanto1022 Totally on the same page. From where I'm sitting, most people would rather remain blind and just continue to enjoy their bread and circuses unfortunately
From my experience, business can be learned fairly easily... I think studying a sector of STEM that inspires you is much more valuable in innovation and product creation. Elon Musk is a clear example of that.
I haven't went to business school or have a master's in business but I'm working pretty well as Marketing Manager (after spending 6 years as marketer). So what Elon is saying is 100% true. You need to have ground level experience before working as a manager or director
Seems to be the case with a lot of graduate schemes I've seen floating around online for various companies. Saw a supermarket posting about how a uni graduate had joined them through their graduate program and gone straight in as regional manager, they could only have been like 23 at the most so it seems strange that you'd bring someone new into your company and immediately give them that much responsibility.
Says the man who was born rich, with blood diamonds. For the rest of us, who have to carve their way up the ladder, an mba might be a good choice. But street smarts and emotional intelligence are far more important.
Elon had privileged upbringing..
But In Canada. He worked crappy jobs..and he took alot of risk.its annoying people keep saying it's because his dad is rich that's how Elon became Elon.
Its really interesting to me that this is becoming a common attitude towards education in quite a few fields. With the wealth of information available at relatively low costs, people who have a natural predisposition for a trade or field, can work their way from the lowest rungs to the highest. Bosses who understand the work that is done at the lowest levels have a much better understanding of their capabilities and limitations.
This used to be the standard way of doing things. Back then businesses lasted alot longer and provided alot more value. Nowadays MBAs are all about their bonuses and cut, cut, cut. They dont know anything else besides slash and burn.
MBAs are a stain on modern civilisation period!
Know the cost of everything and the value of nothing...
Facts 💯
Agreed, but what do you say to people like me who have spent the equivalent of the price of a home (not to mention all the years of depriving yourself of a social life) on their education because we were all told that this was the best way to get a good career - "tough luck"??
@@annieholbis2430 basically. The world sucks.
@@annieholbis2430 The only consolation I believe I can offer is a bit of empathy. I joined the service after high school. Most of my friends, at 17-19 years of age, bravely took on loans that will haunt their existence for the next decade or two. I got out after 3 years with a guaranteed education free of charge and good work experience. The library and clep exams have become my dearest of friends.
There is a flaw in the boot strap theory, because the decision making process of most people is heavily affected by forces which exist beyond the realm of their consciosness. My heart really does go out to anyone who was never exposed to the alternative. Nevertheless, we as a society (US) have the almost pathological need to associate a degree (which essentially anyone can get, if they pay) with authority, competence, and prestige. We need to embrace our blue collar folk as the indispensable assets to society that they are, rather than as the “uneducated”.
I agree to an extent. Dropped out of school but, never had a failed business.
Thanks Elon! That was the validation we needed. People graduate from elite schools but then start doing criminal things...
He's spot on. Paper qualifications mean absolutely nothing - it's experience and your own abilities that trump everything.
I’m hoping those mba graduates can at least formulate cohesive sentences better than Elon can 🤣
100% agree.
I earned a design degree and about 18 years later I earned an MBA at night for the ability to have more meaningful discourse with those that earned an mba in the director executive ranks. What I came to realize was, more than not, the upper ranks were filled with posers and scared they would be found out. It many ways having an mba threatened many directors and executives that were accustomed to dismissing my art skills as incidental. Now I arrive with decades of professional design experience and some certified business acumen (mba) ... and it impedes my ability to collaborate with the executives I was seeking to reach out to.
you can't stop here, go do your thing
you may or may not do well to relocate to a different market, including that known as the internet. i have no idea what/how you do, but you might be the fish trying to grow in the wrong pond(s).
similarly, read 48 Laws of Power and anything else by Robert Greene. you-yourself say it: you are dealing with threatened-feeling people. whether within your company or immediate market, you have to play the game to your best advantage at least until you get into something else, somewhere else. And people skills, for those who are threatened, or for those who have the myriad other foibles/problems of humanity, said people skills will never go out of style or out of need.
the above said, if they don't want to work with you, go find those who view your experiences/talents as a plus, not a threat. similarly, for sake of a controlled experiment, you may want to leave mba off any resume you send out, then wait until right time in interviewing process (or not) to share of that particular credential.
don't stay stuck. don't be afraid to try anything crazy. you're in the art field, there's shitloads of ways and places you can bring your full skillset/talents to bear so long as you don't get picky. you might have other problems, but you won't be stuck anymore, and first progress brings further progress if you keep on it.
as Mursal Noor says "you can't stop here, go do your thing"
As it is with most professions. Sadly
Yes, I moved from being a pure historian into economics and business and found that history skills are really valuable. Like when the poo hits the fan they always ask "What happened?"
He is SOOOOOOO right. When I was in the Navy, I was assigned to run several places with a large amount of staff. My first month was spent meeting everyone and finding out just what everyone did to make the place work. Only when I understood how everything works could I then start tweaking the operation to make it more efficient and customer friendly.
Shut up
He is so right about this. I’ve worked with countless people in my career who have zero leadership ability or are just downright awful leaders/managers, and they get an “executive MBA” and get celebrated for it. They spend 18 months going to school trying to learn how to be a good manager or leader of people and it doesn’t work. I think MBA programs are best for people who already are good managers and leaders but want to supplement their current real world experience and possibly move to higher positions.
My father taught me the value of being able to do every job you expected others to do. I emptied trash containers, I mopped, I watched and made sure my community was safe. I learned, appreciated and maintained. In the end, I kept the peace. I did that for 1,565 apartments. I grew up doing that. It was my life.
He's not trash talking MBAs, so low of you, had to cut the exact part he was explaining how they are valuable in a different sense. All comment haters have no MBA and couldn't get into HBS! Lol we understand guys
Elon musk is trying to say MBA is not needed to the people who have majority of shares.
I actually agree 100% Hey I have a degree now give me all that money!!!! even thou I am 24 years old and I don't know anything! well said.
The number of student I have met during the management studies that wanted to do MBA so they can be director/ceo was ridiculous. A leader must know the reality of the operations so he understands fully why they are proposing the ideas they are proposing.
I think MBA is only one of the requirements to get higher management positions, not the only requirement.
It’s becoming something that smart companies don’t want around. They want real world people.
@@JamesPhillipsOfficial nobody will read it. Including me.
Basically degree provides evidence of one's abilities (atleast theoretically). Otherwise how else would you convince someone that you are good at something without them knowing you?
Maybe a right opportunity of internships,nd it's certificates is helpful
A portfolio of projects and results can substitute a degree.
@@rustytrax4294 no.
@@dac8939 a degree doesn't necessarily mean results.
@@akshay4892 yea sure buddy. Look at you, you are making youtube videos while other mba grads are making more money than you could ever even dream of.
I'm a chemical engineer who has worked up into an area manger position within a chemical plant. I'm going to MBA school because I want to learn the business side of things and eventually want to be a leader within my company. I think that is the right way to go
He just made me feel a lot better about my career path
Try getting ajob in Tesla corp without a degree
Entirely different. Working in Tesla corp, yes a degree in engineering - mechanical, aerospace, software engineering, even degrees in mathematics or physics would be desired. An MBA is entirely different, it's practically useless and a waste of money.
Yes a lot of these people in leadership at these corps hold advance science degrees.
A lot of people at Tesla corp hold a degree, yes, but they're not there because they hold a degree as much as it is a byproduct of it and something useful. Because even Elon Musk said you don't need a college degree to work at Tesla.
ok. i am applying for janitor.
@@Verziroo you are wrong. Look under the HR application it requires a degree if you want to work at Tesla.
I took my state's MBA program because 1) it's cheaper, 2) I'm close to home, 3) I needed some business knowledge since biology was my major from undergrad.
You did nothing wrong
sadly I'm working with too many of those "leaders" who have absolutely 0 idea how things work.
I wonder if he thinks billionaires shouldn’t automatically become CEOs of companies they buy and have no experience in…they just parachute in and buy and start making random changes. Wtf is X?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️🤣😭 WTF is X
There are two types of people.
People who read and have a lot of bookish knowledge.
People who work in the real world and have a lot of real world experience.
And guess what, no matter how many books you read, how many theories, philosophies, and ideas you read, none of those can compare to the experience you gain from actually working in the real space.
Sure, for STEM fields, you need to study, get a degree, and then get a job. But after getting a job, its all the real world experience that helps you become a better at your job.
But, in other fields, you don't really need to read hundreds of books to know what to do, just get your ass up, start working, and learn as you go.
Most self made millionaires and billionaires were not Ph.D Graduates, they read enough to get started, and once they started, they kept grinding and improving.
Musk spent 7 years at University getting degrees in Economics and Physics.
Easy for him to say after he went to Wharton which is the best business shcool in the world
I believe he dropped out of a physics degree in Stanford to build his first business in his apartment with his brother.
@@4biFarm the apartment they rented was actual a store-front/business office they rented and slept in (for a 1/2 year or so) from what I've read. Definitely not the standard path and considering he went to Wharton and is now the richest man in the world i'd take his practical advice over a random university advocate personally :)
@@4biFarm there are rumours he never went to Stanford, he probably lied so he gets more credibility
@@korratheaustralianshepherd5804 his dad owned a emerald mine he also invested 29k in his first business so I'm pretty sure Elon musk was well offf even before he sold zip 2
@@RandomVideos-kn3pf oh no doubt: he definitely had a better group of investors than most people did at his age - not to mention the support system therein. I dont think that should detract from the accomplishments he's been able to achieve in his 50 years of life though... granted it's mostly through building of teams and being the first to act on some big ideas, still no small feat
I ran a mechanic shop fixing autos I found that the techs that went to tech school were scared shitless to try fixings things that they weren't trained while the mechanic that was a high school drop out that been taking things apart and learning how they worked was never afraid to take things apart and try to fix it and from that day I realized education isn't always the answer for best employee it helps but it doesn't prove the experience and skill needed to innovate.
Exactly! And once these incompetent corporate heads occupy their positions they will GATE KEEP, preventing qualified individuals from stepping foot into their company because they’re afraid of losing their positions.
As much as I've experienced applying for MBAs, MBAs in USA do seem to care about leadership skills to an extent and mandate work experience (3+ yrs) to be considered eligible for the MBA programs. But when I come to Indian B-schools, the condition is deplorable. 9/10 B-schools in India, even the premier ones, have no minimum work ex requirement due to which majority of the class joins MBA straight out of undergrad. They do not make good managers, and def not good leaders atleast from what I've experienced after working under such people
So much true. Indian MBA have no clue how to solve a problem. Most of the times they play blame game. They don't know how to bring in profits without cutting employees off. There best friend is tell 1 guy to do 20 guy work and save money for company. They are worst in problem solving but like to show off alot.
@Paul S racist
@Paul S why are you so rude
The exception being ISB.
Now I know why corporate hospitals are run the way they are.... 😶😶😶
He's right. But there is also a reason why people pay so much fuckin money to go to these MBA programs. The job/ networking opportunities u get from the name on the diploma is what ur paying for, not the education
Goes for almost everything. All knowledge is available online but it takes time to be certified & you get privileges. Musk himself was doing PhD in Physics. I very much doubt he would have been so successful if he didn't utilise his contacts he made there to venture into business afterwards.
He's not your average fellow if he was doing PhD in a STEM field.
@@gabbar51ngh Actually getting a PhD in STEM is different from starting it and dropping out of it. Anyone with a good enough bachelor's in physics can do a PhD and I don't think you need to be that smart to get a good enough bachelor's in physics. As long you're not completely dumb it should be fine. Completing a PhD is a different thing altogether. Not saying Elon Musk is not smart. Just saying that starting a PhD is not a big deal.
@@achyuththouta6957 you are assuming getting a bachelor's in physics is that easy & anyone can do it. That's not really the case based of how many fail to do STEM in general.
I agree and have an MBA. Too many of my peers had a 'parachuting in' and short cuts mentality and stagnated later. It's a great course for condensing 10 or 15 years of business experience, but it's only a starting point to going deeper. If you really build knowledge on top of an MBA, then business becomes a playground.
It's like this in most organizations where the mid level manager came from another field and doesn't know the intricacies of the business, culture, or history of the department 💯
Not a roast, just making very valid points
He’s actually totally and completely right. I’ve witnessed this firsthand. The managers at my company who got MBAs got hired in as managers but they know significantly less about the processes of the company than the people who got hired in at the bottom and often times there are people below them who know significantly more than they do but struggle to get promoted because they don’t have a degree. While they somewhat deserve to be hired into management from the get go because they put in the time to get a degree it is definitely frustrating when people who know so much less about the inner workings of a company are the ones making more than you and exercising authority over you. But that’s just how it is. But having an MBA definitely does not equate to knowing how to lead.
No he's not. You are taking some very particular situations to fit your narrative while disregarding all the other times a MBA hire won't do what you said.
You said that these people somewhat deserve the job because they put in the time to get a degree. Why would anyone's time matter? Things should be based only on merit. Some people can put countless hours into things and still suck at them.
@@JackRR15 Yes, but the narrative is true in many situations. It's not that an MBA is worthless. It has value when someone also has experience. But these guys/gals hired from top universities with those degrees often get placed in executive roles without work experience. The VP of Product Development at my former company was like that. She had no experience in the business world except for a few college internships at Bain Capital. However, she has an engineering degree from MIT and an MBA from Stanford. She was smart but had no idea what she was doing. We spent 6 months teaching her the job instead of making progress on our products. We had the education and experience, but she had the status of those prestigious universities. You see that sort of thing a lot in the tech world.
Valid point. Seeing some MBAs taking over management of health care, trashing it and doctors running away.
A mandatory requirement for MBA candidates should be Project Manager in their CV, that's how you understand to deal with how things go within a company and especially people.
Funny how we very often used to focus our attention on Elon during my MBA, because of his unique leadership skills and entrepreneurial abilities. I somehow believed at the time, he wanted to convince people about the unique experience of driving a Tesla. That's what resonated with me mostly at the time. It seemed he was committed in creating a unique experience. An experience you wouldn't have with any other car.
As an MBA degree holder, do you think MBA is worth it as in employment? Is it a high payed skill?
@@User-rz7de well it depends. An MBA allows you to get closer to the value of doing business, and understand different perspectives. You focus on the value of creating and generating profit. So an MBA encapsulates a set of skills development like leadership, which can help you become a better parent maybe and teach you how to be a team, understand where your value can be more concerned. This is not a perfect world and given constraints and priorities, an MBA is definitely not a guarantee, like any other degree. I am also a geologist and women are often not concidered for the job. Some people use the MBA make more money. Different people have different priorities.
Agree with this and another thing with MBAs is that they lean on it for decades (Rather than their recent achievements) thinking their opinion carries more weight purely because they sat more exams than most in College. Consistently find that MBAs / PhD's in marketing space at least are as a group the wrong people to expect to be successful.
He's describing the military basically, and I love it. Rank is earned, not given. And I was in the army medical corps before I went to med school.
I didn't imagine MBA's are that incompetent
He is not trashing MBA degree..
He is just saying that he wants someone with past solid experience.
In battle..you rely on your Sargent..in business the best managers came up from the ranks..
He's right. I always believed if I went to college, id.just graduate and find a great career automatically. I didn't realize this was called "parachuting" I thought it was just the normal way. However, I still don't know what I want to be, and it's been 15 years since I graduated college.
Probably the smartest engineer who is leading consumer products as well as space exploration in our time. Elon is a pure genius! I have been waiting since 1986 for electric vehicles to match the range of gas/diesel vehicles. Elon and Tesla have done it. I am am engineer who wanted to move up into management 20 years ago and was unable to secure interviews. I asked the recruiter what I needed to do and she replied that I needed an MBA. In my 50's and after 4 yr. at night and weekends, I completed my MBA. Then, working in middle management, I interviewed and successfully moved up to executive management with the MBA. Engineers typically need the MBA for upward mobility. Elon is unbelievably smart and destined for greater things. Just watch and see the future he creates!
as EF Schumacher said, "stunt technology"
It's funny how he says "I don't wanna trash MBA's too much here"
I got my MBA at night while I was working. I didn't take out any loans and paid for it as I went. I think it helped me.
I agree with him. I've earned every position of leadership in various careers by starting at the bottom and learning the business. I think the real education starts when you enter the field...
Agreed.
MBA Course is like £18,000 and that's the Online version in the UK with the Open University, so basically it's designed for rich people who want a ticket to being "the boss" and Elon Musk is absolutely right, ive worked in places where their arrogance supersedes the functionality of the business, they get so drunk on power, like everyday is the weekend. It can be toxic, but I bet there's also those who parachute in as the boss and make an effort to learn the business and care about it - those people are the exception though
some companies won't consider you for leadership without an MBA
@@tg-us3hw Not some, MOST of them.
In Germany, it can cost like 300 eur/mo in an international school online, but guys what about Msc in Business Administration? In some countries like Belgium and Italy, they can cost super cheap and u can go to top EU schools for (4k euros per year or less)
People from irrelevant backgrounds getting *the job* based on just an MBA is the problem. People doing it to advance in their field is understandable.
My personal experience is regretfully with the former ones. Working with middle management that have no clue how the business is run.
Truth is in business having no formal qualifications can be a smart move
This man is brilliant!! So many managers who did not work up to their positions are truly clueless. Many companies have to many people reading Harvard Business Review, making changes to company policies and personal that are counter productive to the bottom line…. Use what works……..
so which better ? reading Harvard Business review and making change to company policies is useless?
MBA's a re not a waste of money, he should double check the statistics on MBA grads compensation.
And then tesla gives priorities to people with MBA from big university.
It is his opinion, But parterns, employees and Board member still ptefer High qualified people ( at least on paper)
@Jalter Payton Ivy League MBAs. Totally different than anything else. MBAs from non top ranked school are nothing
Great point.
The problem is a heavy hitting aspect of corporate industry is the resume, of which for someone like me who’s trying to make it while I’m still young: an MBA gets me to a more competitive space vs a person with many years of experience.
He's totally right. Experience comes first always
I worked my way up from a videographer to Director of Marketing in 5 years. No formal education, just a strong desire to learn and work my ass off. I can tell you from experience that when I got to that level & we hired on more directors with MBA’s , they struggled to lead people, come up with good ideas, and ultimately not respected by the team. Most of them took a different job for more pay cause they couldn’t get promoted or got fired. They sucked lol. Not saying this is always the case but definitely true in my situation.
Musk spent 7 years at University, and has 2 degrees.
I learned more in 1 day owning a business than I did in 4 years of business college
This is one college as a whole is a waste of time because they don’t teach you what you really need to know. And if you don’t know certain people to get your way in to a company you don’t ever move up most of the time.
I’m getting my MBA right now, after nearly 10 years experience in my field. The MBA teaches some useful knowledge, but that’s not why you get it. It’s purely to check a box to help move up the management ladder. My experience is far more valuable to employers than the MBA will be - the MBA is just an enhancement or a nice-to-have.
The only source of knowledge is from experience
-Einstein
An MBA doesn’t make you an expert in anything. It gives the student a managerial overview of all business areas: economics, finance, accounting, marketing, organizational behavior, quantitative analytics, information & process systems, strategy, etc. Only top Ivy League graduates are able to “parachute” into leadership roles. For the rest of us, it hopefully makes us more rounded, and perhaps more competitive for future roles.
They parachute into roles they were groomed for that were waiting for them
Say that to Nathan Fielder, he graduated Canada's best business school with really good grades and he is totally rocking it!
Well said. I know a lot of people with mba’s and they think they’re smarter than they actually are.
Great statements. Fully agree. I graduated with an MBA but had zero knowledge of professional development, behavioral coaching, and accountability needed as a store manager. I got them later after working way up and leading for 2 years.