Despite my ability to defend myself in Dead Space the atmosphere resulted in my never feeling able to defend myself properly- I was constantly on edge and extremely paranoid and despite that paranoia I still found myself unprepared and thrown off balance whenever just about anything happened. Still one of the most tense and anxiety inducing gaming experiences I've ever had.
Thanks for another great video. Really excited about the future horror episodes. "Dreadout" also uses the same camera mechanic...and it's pretty effective, as it should be! x|
Aria Mohtadi You know, I'd completely forgotten about Dreadout! I remember hearing about it back when it was in development, but I never got around to playing it. Time to fix that. I was also interested in the use of a camera in Outlast. I've been considering doing a future episode comparing its symbolic significance to that of Fatal Frame.
Make sure you get the 2-3 extra costumes early on in Dreadout! :)) Yeah, halfway in and it's already a great game imo.... and unfortunately I've never even had the chance to play the Fatal Frame series on my own (or if it has been released on PC, I'm not of aware of it).- maybe Dreadout's a complete ripoff, but as is, it's got a great atmosphere and effective ghost-repellent (!) mechanics. That'd be great! Bring on more horror episodes! You're right, Outlast did it to great effect as well. Not sure if it's the darkness mechanism (does that count as mechanics? Hmm...) or the overall plot, but playing Outlast felt a lot like the first Amnesia (if it was set in our day and age!) - At least they've both got dark cellar missions, right? :D
Aria Mohtadi Yeah, I got a pretty similar vibe from Outlast as Amnesia, even if Outlast wasn't quite as subtle. :P I still need to finish both, though, because as I said in the video, I'm a complete wimp. :P And yeah, Fatal Frame's on PS2 and Xbox, not counting the Japan-exclusive fourth game on the Wii and the upcoming WiiU exclusive fifth. Totally worth giving a shot.
Exactly! Not much subtlety in Outlast's story department either. Well you can count me in too! :D I was pretty much done with Amnesia after the first one; it's a good game and all, but I mean, c'mon, 'uber-Lovecraftian helplessness much'? I mean, it goes too far beyond what Penumbra 2 and Dark Corners of the Earth achieved (a bit excessively so even, imo. ) So after Amnesia and Outlast, it took quite a while (filled with lots of GTA, Dragon Age and such just to stay far away from that atmosphere) until I finally convinced myself to try A Machine for Pigs and, turns out, no more creature encounters in that one ! Yay! Ah, dammit! Well I'd sure love to rent FF on Xbox - Thanks. :) (BTW is there a chance you'll do a narrative analysis of A Machine for Pigs in the future? It's one of those borderline interactive story type games, much like 'Gone Home' - pretty interesting from that point of view as well.)
Aria Mohtadi I suppose I might, though I'd need to finish the first one and get up the courage to play the second. :P Most horror games I've played, I played with my cousin (due to my aforementioned cowardice), and he's in the Army for another 9 months or so. Hopefully I'll get more of the genre upon his return. Though I just realized none of the analyses I have planned for the rest of this year are horror games. I may want to fix that. But then there are some excellent ones in the lineup, so it'll work out in any case. ^_^
I know this is a (comparatively) older video, but I wished to say that while I do not seek to change your view on the game (despite enjoying it myself), the actual horror of Dead Space was actually, to my eyes at least, more on the underlying themes of cosmic horror, rather than the in-your-face body horror. The body horror IS prominent, yes, but the scariness of the series comes more from the eldritch, unknown and unknowable otherness implied in the existence of the Markers, and the Lovecraftian themes of the particular one featured in the game. As you said in your video about Lovecraftian horror, the horror itself comes from the vast incomprehensible -and not quite empty- void, the "dead space", if you will. In the Cthulhu Mythos, it comes from the sheer incomprehensibility of the creatures motives, existence, and appearance, for the most part at least. In Dead Space, it comes from the sheer ineffability of the Marker's motives, let alone it's existence, which is, in true Cthonic horror style- a result of human science reaching too far off the placid island and into the sea. I admit to not having knowledge of Fatal Frame, and so I cannot comment on that, but I wished to say something in defence of (what I see as) a reasonably decent game. Also, your videos are quite enjoyable, and educational. Thanks for making them.
"The thing that video games have that no other artistic medium does is the ability to interact directly with the audience." This isn't exactly true. Other mediums can be interactive also to some extent. Stage plays (or any kind of live performance) can involve audience participation, pieces of art (like murals) can have contributions made by people other than the original creators, and there's the example of "chose your own adventure" books. I think it would be more correct to say that video games are unique in that their intractability is generally the first and foremost consideration.
+MegaBearsFan I shorten the sentiment like that for the sake of not going into a bit side-note about it in every video, but you're technically correct. I think it would be accurate to say that no other art form has integrated interactivity to such a degree, and thus that no other art form has involved the player on such a deep level as a basic part of its nature. To a point where I think "video games are unique because of interactivity" is a functionally accurate statement, if not technically.
One good trick I've seen a game do is to use the idea of fear as something to fear. The game Afraid of Monsters is an FPS (a Half-Life 1 Mod) where the PC has limited ammo and is surrounded by bullet-sponging enemies. What makes the game really work though is that most of the monsters are in the dark and the player's flashlight doesn't great a very big spot of light. This means that the Player has terrible tunnel vision and the monsters will ALWAYS get the drop on you. A good chunk of the game's challenge (for me, at least) isn't that the monsters will surprise you, and then they'll kill while you're paralyzed with fear.
I'd love to hear your opinion on Dead Space's Story and world building, because the games are actually well written and the world is consistent. I do understand where you come from, because I am myself a huge fan of Fatal Frame (or Project Zero) and I was soooo disappointed when I first played Dead Space, because it was advertised as this new subtle horror experience with burst of gory violence here and there.... and then I got brutal shooter action with a little bit of jump scares. I still don't really like the first game, even though I do enjoy the 2nd and 3rd game with it's focus on Lovecraftian Horror and the character arc of Isaac that reminds me of Alien.
I know you don't like Dead Space but there seems to be a good argument that Unitology in the games is a slash at Scientology (if not quite the author's specific intent). I haven't played the game yet but it would be interesting to see your thoughts on it.
Marcus Eckhoff That is quite possible, and not at all subtle given the similarity of the name. :P That said, it'd be more of a clumsy insult than anything, since I don't expect Scientology to find something actually dangerous and worship it in such a way that puts anyone in danger. Unitology is kind of hazy in its details, and I didn't honestly know all that much about Scientology when I originally played the games, so it's entirely possible I missed something. I'll look into that deeper if someone ever forces me to analyze Dead Space. :P
Since you got that Alien quadrilogy in the shelf, you should definitely play Alien Isolation. It does have its problems, mostly because it is way, waaaaay too long, but the game does a fantastic job at mechanically reproducing the experience of being hunted, and also at making you feel like Ripley did in the original 1979 Alien film.
+José Renato Fernandes I actually got it day 1, but I usually play through horror movies with my cousin (I'm a wimp), and he's on an Army base right now. I'll probably finish it when he gets back. :P
My first reaction to the first 10 seconds of this video: professor: "I love s good horror game." me: "Then why haven't you done a literary analysis of Silent Hill yet?!"
+MegaBearsFan Partly because it's kind of daunting. Partially because as much as I love it, Fatal Frame is my favorite horror series and I may end up doing it first. And partly because, honestly, the first year of this show was mostly me analyzing some of my favorite games I already knew front-to-back, and I've only played Silent Hill 2 once. These analyses are more difficult now that the games I know in and out have already been done. :P
+Games As Literature Indeed. Besides, SH2 is rather over-saturated when it comes to analysis anyway. So it was refreshing to see someone cite a different game (and franchise) as a standard of quality.
+MegaBearsFan Yeah, games that have a lot to unpack and already have a ton of literature on them are kind of daunting. I have similar hesitance with the Metal Gear Solid games. But I'm sure they'll all see analyses at some point.
I don't like Dead Space. But I also don't like when people bash games with horror setting, just because they decided to to use action gameplay. I have interest in horror games, not because of disempowering gameplay, but because I just like horror setting. You can say, that this is a problem of marketing and those game should be marketed as action games, not as horror games. But I disagree. lets use Dead Space as an example. A lot of people find Dead Space terrifying. So I don't think that it's false advertising, to market them as horror games.
***** True enough. I take issue more with Dead Space's repetitive and predictable scares than its action gameplay; the atmosphere can be good at times, and the story isn't bad (for the first game, at least), but after the first hour or so I honestly played it like any other game; didn't even phase me. I just knew when all the scares were coming, because they were all kind of lazy and cliche. I do agree action gameplay is fine; heck, Fatal Frame has a lot of action elements, and it's my favorite horror series of all time. Like anything, it just needs to be designed well to mesh with the horror, and I don't think Dead Space (or most of the games inspired by it in its wake) did that very well.
Games As Literature As a horror fanatic, I actually argue that Fatal Frame (don't crucify me for this) actually is more desensitizing than Dead Space. Because you constantly have to face them up close, you become less terrified of the ghosts (in my experience). While there is a fantastic story, and a creepy atmosphere, I found that the setting was too subtle and quiet without an overbearing sense of dread. Dead Space however nails the atmosphere right off the bat. There are areas that are predictable, and I did not enjoy its use of jump scare tactics, but if you put that aside I find that the whole experience is much more immersive. As you stated, we play as Isaac who is an engineer using cutting tools, rather than a marine with true weapons. With every action he makes he lets out an audible gasp or wheeze, showing both stress and a (subjective) lack of regular fitness. He is just as terrified as you are. I feel this is less characterized with Fatal Frame (crimson butterfly in this case), as Mio doesn't exactly show her terror outright, but whimpers slightly. This might indicate that she is strong, but I found that instead of a character I was solely controlling an avatar. Let's look at the design choices for the games. All the information you need to know in Dead Space is on Isaac's back and his weapon, not on the screen in a way of a regular HUD. This way we have less clutter, and we have view of solely our protagonist and his struggles. We also do not have fixed camera angles. This allows for more action, as well as being more fluid. However, with Fatal Frame we have fixed camera angles, but a camera-controlled shooting mechanism. These games are both shooters, in a sense. The fixed angle makes the core gameplay (shooting ghosts) frustrating rather than amplifying the setting, as switching between the two perspectives requires a precise direction of the avatar before switching to the camera. Another good example of this type of gameplay not working very well would be Metroid: Other M. If the view switching was not fundamental to the gameplay, the fixed camera would not be as cumbersome, and has been brilliantly utilized in such games as Resident Evil (pre RE:4) and Silent Hill 1-3. The only problem with Dead Space that I find is that the horror is more in the story and the grotesqueness rather than the gameplay, and because of that the gameplay was then exploited for further games in the franchise to emphasize combat over story. Fatal Frame detracts from the setting and story with a combat mechanic that over-exposes the enemies you face, as you constantly must look at the horrors head on in long, drawn out battles. Both become a bit predictable, but their story is what holds them aloft. That being said, Dead Space did have more "go here, get this" vs. the exploration that Fatal Frame did. To conclude, I like both games, but I prefer Dead Space as it feels more horrific and morbid in both gameplay and style. Fatal Frame has an excuse due to the hardware at the time, but I still feel that if you are to have combat in a game that it should be more intuitive and frustrating only due to a player's inability to act, rather than have actual mechanics get in the way of success. Feel free to respond to any of this with your own critique.
+Kris Pervin Interesting. Excuse my long reply, but I enjoy this sort of discussion. ^_^ I kind of see where you're coming from, but I do still disagree, having played both trilogies. It seems most of your reasons come down to differences in age and style, which is valid, but not as important to me. Both games are disempowering in concept--girl vs. ghosts and engineer vs. aliens--and that works fine in both cases, but I felt the action-oriented gameplay of Dead Space undercut that conceptual tension. Dead Space tries to be realistic and engrossing in its presentation (thus the lack of HUD), while Fatal Frame tries to be cinematic. I believe this works well in both examples, and even love the fixed angles of Fatal Frame and the cinematic element they bring to it. I agree with your issues about the controls, but not only was the game made before such control conventions were common, let alone the standard, but I honestly didn't have much trouble adjusting. You just turn in the proper direction before raising the camera. So while I agree it could use some updating, I honestly take no issue with it. Similarly aged is the audio you described; Isaac's grunts and such are great (if overused in some instances, like running out of oxygen), but it's hard to judge Fatal Frame for a lack of such things when it's on notably older hardware where such attention to detail was rarely possible. As for being desensitized to the ghosts, I get what you're saying. That happens in most horror games I've played. But in Dead Space I was honestly only scared for the first hour, after which I had figured out basically every scare and tactic it had used. Ever since those opening bits, I went through the entire game without fear or hesitation, because they kept throwing these enemies at me and I knew how to handle them perfectly well. In Fatal Frame they do consistently throw enemies at you, and you don't necessarily continue being deathly afraid of fighting each one, but they have other methods of increasing the fear. The most obvious is the fact that they regularly introduce new ghosts that operate in different ways, and use the level design to make each room a somewhat unique combat arena since the ghosts can move through walls. Then there's the psychological element of each ghost type's unique backstory, bringing not only the ghost itself, but the horror of its death, to every encounter ("my eyes," and "there's a rope" being memorable examples). And finally, the fact that exploring the mansion can be met with a random encounter, so you're constantly aware that something could attack you as you traverse the game world, and this randomness ensures it's not predictable like Dead Space was. In Dead Space I knew when they were going to scare me, and I knew exactly how to handle nearly every situation they threw my way. Fatal Frame threw a variety of enemies at me with horrifying backstories and fitting designs, and used a creative visual metaphor within the gameplay to make me face them head on, and that scared me far more than all the atmospheric touches in Dead Space ever did. The result was that Fatal Frame genuinely scarred me (I still associate the smell of Mountain Dew Game Fuel with the game, since I drank it the night I played it), but Dead Space just kind of underwhelmed me. It's technically impressive, and the atmosphere is great, but the actual horror just fell completely flat for me.
+Games As Literature Never played Fatal Frame so I can't comment on it (though having a degree in Film Media, I'm now interested). While I agree that the gameplay in Dead Space contributes little to giving the player a sense of fear, I feel there's something to be said for the more psychological aspects. Dead Space's backstory (essentially, the backstory of the Ishimura) is the true horror of the game, which presents an interesting, arguably humorous criticism of Scientology, of all things. Like Fatal Frame, Dead Space is a mystery and there's a certain sense of dread that comes from knowing that as you plunge deeper into the Ishimura in order to solve that mystery, the answer is likely to be, well, horrific. And it turns out that that is true. The necromorphs aren't the true horror of Dead Space, which is where the disconnect between concept and gameplay becomes obvious. The true horror is in the fact that the crew of the Ishimura lost their grip on reality, a fact that DOES become chilling when the player realizes that the wife who has been beckoning to Isaac to save her is, and has been, dead. Even as Isaac escapes in the end, the image of his dead wife next to him gives us the final TRUE scare: Isaac hasn't escaped at all. This is where I feel the sequel gets a bad wrap (that said, ignore that the third one exists). Dead Space 2 begins with Isaac literally being assaulted by a vision of his dead wife, Nicole, a moment more traumatic than any encounter with the necromorphs. As one progresses through the game, her ghost continues to haunt -- and taunt -- him. Except it's not really her ghost. It's his own mind. Dead Space's truly terrifying conflict is not the exterior threat of grisly death or zombification, but the interior struggle with madness. Isaac's true battle is with himself, specifically his perceived relationship with Nicole and how despite his struggle for survival, he can't escape his own mind, and by extension, that relationship. Remember that the outbreak in this game is caused by the villain from the first game -- the Marker -- being rebuilt from Isaac's own mind. His madness literally destroys the world. This is where the sequel does something truly unique by giving us the character of Ellie. Through their evolving relationship, Isaac repairs his damaged psyche until, in a final scene echoing the final scene of the first game, we see that Ellie has symbolically replaced Nicole. This time, however, there is no attack. Isaac truly does escape. This is not unlike the first two Alien films, the first in which Ellen Ripley survives physically but, as seen in the sequel, Aliens, has suffered considerable psychological damage. What repairs that damage? Her assuming the role of motherhood with Newt, the young girl found on the overrun colony. Like in Dead Space 2, Ripley not only survives with Newt but is healed because of her. Dead Space (the first two games, anyway) do more than just provide scares. They explore themes of the connection between our deepest fears and our deepest relationships. Whether it be husband-wife or mother-daughter, Dead Space (2) and Alien(s) use survival horror to explore a more profound idea. Hope.
+Eric Thompson ...I apparently need to play Dead Space 2 again. I spent most of the time annoyed at the painfully obvious jump/gore scares and the infuriating insistence on making it completely clear when Isaac was hallucinating and when he was lucid. I didn't catch on to any of that depth.
I was watching this episode after watching the "darker and edgier" episode, and I realized something: horror has failed in most hollywood movies as a result of this approach. think about it: Why was the original Japanese movie, Ringu, more superior than its Hollywood counterpart (even though the very first film, The Ring, was decent and bearable the first three times). Ring 2 suffered immensely BECAUSE it was attempting to be darker and edgier. In contrast, The Woman in Black, to me, actually was good horror. It had its tropes, but it also had a wonderful use of story and themes amalgamated with its environment. In the context of games, well... I think its when they try to be "darker and edgier" that they fail miserably. VERY, very miserably. Dead Space is not my favourite game, at all, but its approach is cool BECAUSE it is actually something I've noticed in other games which actually use it just as well as Dead Space does, but with more context, depth, interactivity, and general cohesiveness. Like Condemned: Criminal Origins. THAT, is horror in my opinion. Or Penumbra (any Penumbra game really). PT HAD the potential of being the same, but I feel it was betrayed from the get-go. Condemned: Criminal Origins, for instance, is actually really cool in how it uses its themes and story and interactivity. I remember how scared as all hell I was the first time I played it. I still remember how effectively it used its jump scares, and how much its first act alone made me cringe. It is a really cool game. Penumbra, on the other hand, had its story. The first one, was good. Bloody good stuff that even today, really does scare me. outdated graphics practically make it worse than better, in that it has aged decently. The story is definitely a worthwhile experience but it depends on which Penumbra you go with. My personal favourite was 1, although its subsequent sequels were better. In terms of mechanical horror though, I'm... surprised by myself when I wind up selecting Bloodborne and Dark Souls. SOME elements in those games were genuinely scary - I mean, beyond any shadow of a doubt I'll be traumatized in my dreams level of scary. Which definitely goes in its favour more than anything else. But yeah, still mechanical horror.
Hey, love your material and am mid-binge from the beginning as I type. Just a note since I know you care about the details, this comparison doesn't really work because Dead Space didn't really bring action horror to the spotlight. Everyone and their mothers will have their own opinion about this, but the dev team for Dead Space basically wanted to take Resident Evil 4 and put it in space. That game broke most of the ground upon which Dead Space was built, and Redwood developers discuss in the below game informer interview how that whole process ended up happening. tl;dr comparing Fatal Frame to Resident Evil 4 would probably have more academic value. Unless, of course, you're strawmanning the genre by picking a somewhat weaker game, but we all know you're not going for that. Keep up the great work, link below. www.pcgamer.com/how-resident-evil-4-turned-system-shock-3-into-dead-space/
I'm really sorry for my terrible speaking. Well, i don't think i'm able to talk about this cuz it's really hard to scare me in games. Horror and survival-horror games especially, but i will try. I think, that Dead Space tries to scare you not only with terrifying enemies and history, but with the superiority of monsters over the player. Like Lovecraft tries to show you how small humans compared to the cosmic beings, how vast their mind and how great their power. I think that something like that is used in DS too. Almoust every enemy is much more vital then simple human (they can kill you even without head or legs. At least they're trying.), they are stronger and faster and they can slice you into pieces like loaf of bread. Of course, you can kill them too but you need weapons and ammo or you will be taking too much damage in every confrontation. And screamers. Yea, i agree, they are bad thing. You know that right now enemy will appear from this air vent with loud scream and you'll have to kill it. And that's the thing, i think. You know that you will have to face this strong enemy and you know that he won't come alone. Due to the fact that you have a little amount of ammo and meds. So, game is trying to scare you with challenge, that comes with enemy. Like you're some schoolboy and teacher said that tomorrow will be a hard test. And you can't just run through to the next room like in first three RE or SH. This part felts really strong on Hard difficulty level (for me atleast) and on second half of the game on Normal. Especially after you meet regenerating necromorph - an enemy that you can't kill, no mater how many times you dismembered him. Nemesis from RE have something like that, but he can be defeated for a short time.
WHY HAVEN'T YOU USED SILENT HILL AS AN EXAMPLE? WHY? WHY? WHY? Fatal Frame is indeed, a good game - I read about it in an article, and saw some feed on it on RUclips and Dailymotion among other streaming channels, but honestly its not AS significant, as Silent Hill. In fact, "I have no mouth and I must scream" also fits into that category of horror. It is genuinely terrifying. PENUMBRA is ten times more terrifying than Dead Space, and that game is relentless in how it scares the everlasting crap out of you! WHY HAVEN'T YOU TALKED ABOUT SILENT HILL (or Silent Hill 2, which is equally good, and has superior depth to it as well). Also, side note, SHORT COMMENT FROM ME! YAY!!
Hey, sorry I don't really have time to fully address all your comments, but I did want to say real quick that I do plan on giving Silent Hill 2 a full analysis treatment at some point, but it's a little... daunting. I want to make sure I have some really good, comprehensive stuff to say about it before I take on a game that's already had so much analysis done on it. Which, incidentally, is the same reason I haven't gotten around to Metal Gear Solid yet. That series is just plain intimidating.
Its alright, My comments are insanely long anyway. More like college essays than comments really ^^; Also, Metal Gear Solid is plain intimidating, but equivocally confusing... it is NOT for the ordinary viewer, so I can imagine that, as a person who does have significant provese in your field (and I respect that, by the way), you would find it intimidating. And true, it has been analysed a lot over the years, but Silent Hill 1? Its kind of like Echo Night (again, I'm sorry for name dropping that game again and again and again, but it actually has this story which sticks out so brilliantly, plus its the better title from From Software) in that it is not analysed as much as 2 and 3. Even though of the three, its the one which made Kojima a household name (right uptill Silent Hill: Awakening at any rate). Either way, I look forward to seeing more of your stuff. I'm enjoying them a lot :D Actually saw the SotC and Bastion analysis a few more times. Can't get enough of them. Plus, Halo's analysis is just as spot on (mostly because I've played and ended that game, and can relate with it). Good stuff :)
Oh yeah Silent Hill and Metal Gear are indeed daunting but there is a lot of great things to analyze and discuss about the franchises, from the different types of horror across the Silent Hill games (1-4 at least) and the gene,meme,scene and love themes of the first 4 Metal Gear games. I'd love to see you get to these eventually, as I'm sure many others do (I can also aid you a little bit if you'd like as I've analyzed them myself in my free time) anyways I just discovered your channel and it is quite awesome Instantly subscribed after the first video I watched (Shadow of the Colossus to be exact). I have been looking for something like this for a long time, keep up the excellent work!
Spoiler for DS3 it seems to me that you didn't play it. I'd argue that DS3 is the best game for horror in the series, as it manages to communicate cosmic horror in a way no game I've played before can. You can fight through to the end, and essentially "kill god" succeed at everything, be a big action hero bad-ass, but you and humanity are still doomed, and your sanity may already have left you like a rat from a sinking ship.
I will never, ever understand the fan base that the Fatal Frame series has. It just isn't scary to me. All of the games are like very silly, very pretentious student films backed by the university's fashion department and acted by people who think this is their ticket to modeling success.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
You deserve more subs, I just appreciate your insights and vids. Thanks for the great content!!
Despite my ability to defend myself in Dead Space the atmosphere resulted in my never feeling able to defend myself properly- I was constantly on edge and extremely paranoid and despite that paranoia I still found myself unprepared and thrown off balance whenever just about anything happened. Still one of the most tense and anxiety inducing gaming experiences I've ever had.
Thanks for another great video.
Really excited about the future horror episodes.
"Dreadout" also uses the same camera mechanic...and it's pretty effective, as it should be! x|
Aria Mohtadi You know, I'd completely forgotten about Dreadout! I remember hearing about it back when it was in development, but I never got around to playing it. Time to fix that.
I was also interested in the use of a camera in Outlast. I've been considering doing a future episode comparing its symbolic significance to that of Fatal Frame.
Make sure you get the 2-3 extra costumes early on in Dreadout! :))
Yeah, halfway in and it's already a great game imo.... and unfortunately I've never even had the chance to play the Fatal Frame series on my own (or if it has been released on PC, I'm not of aware of it).- maybe Dreadout's a complete ripoff, but as is, it's got a great atmosphere and effective ghost-repellent (!) mechanics.
That'd be great! Bring on more horror episodes!
You're right, Outlast did it to great effect as well. Not sure if it's the darkness mechanism (does that count as mechanics? Hmm...) or the overall plot, but playing Outlast felt a lot like the first Amnesia (if it was set in our day and age!) - At least they've both got dark cellar missions, right? :D
Aria Mohtadi Yeah, I got a pretty similar vibe from Outlast as Amnesia, even if Outlast wasn't quite as subtle. :P I still need to finish both, though, because as I said in the video, I'm a complete wimp. :P
And yeah, Fatal Frame's on PS2 and Xbox, not counting the Japan-exclusive fourth game on the Wii and the upcoming WiiU exclusive fifth. Totally worth giving a shot.
Exactly! Not much subtlety in Outlast's story department either.
Well you can count me in too! :D
I was pretty much done with Amnesia after the first one; it's a good game and all, but I mean, c'mon, 'uber-Lovecraftian helplessness much'? I mean, it goes too far beyond what Penumbra 2 and Dark Corners of the Earth achieved (a bit excessively so even, imo. )
So after Amnesia and Outlast, it took quite a while (filled with lots of GTA, Dragon Age and such just to stay far away from that atmosphere) until I finally convinced myself to try A Machine for Pigs and, turns out, no more creature encounters in that one ! Yay!
Ah, dammit! Well I'd sure love to rent FF on Xbox - Thanks. :)
(BTW is there a chance you'll do a narrative analysis of A Machine for Pigs in the future? It's one of those borderline interactive story type games, much like 'Gone Home' - pretty interesting from that point of view as well.)
Aria Mohtadi I suppose I might, though I'd need to finish the first one and get up the courage to play the second. :P Most horror games I've played, I played with my cousin (due to my aforementioned cowardice), and he's in the Army for another 9 months or so. Hopefully I'll get more of the genre upon his return.
Though I just realized none of the analyses I have planned for the rest of this year are horror games. I may want to fix that. But then there are some excellent ones in the lineup, so it'll work out in any case. ^_^
I know this is a (comparatively) older video, but I wished to say that while I do not seek to change your view on the game (despite enjoying it myself), the actual horror of Dead Space was actually, to my eyes at least, more on the underlying themes of cosmic horror, rather than the in-your-face body horror. The body horror IS prominent, yes, but the scariness of the series comes more from the eldritch, unknown and unknowable otherness implied in the existence of the Markers, and the Lovecraftian themes of the particular one featured in the game.
As you said in your video about Lovecraftian horror, the horror itself comes from the vast incomprehensible -and not quite empty- void, the "dead space", if you will. In the Cthulhu Mythos, it comes from the sheer incomprehensibility of the creatures motives, existence, and appearance, for the most part at least. In Dead Space, it comes from the sheer ineffability of the Marker's motives, let alone it's existence, which is, in true Cthonic horror style- a result of human science reaching too far off the placid island and into the sea.
I admit to not having knowledge of Fatal Frame, and so I cannot comment on that, but I wished to say something in defence of (what I see as) a reasonably decent game.
Also, your videos are quite enjoyable, and educational. Thanks for making them.
hey, dead space is legitimately terrifying to me and fulfills all it sets out to do as both an action AND a horror game >:^(
Yay! We're learning!
Rens de Jonge Wait... is that what's happening?! Dagnabit, Sam! Curse you and your glorious beard!
"The thing that video games have that no other artistic medium does is the ability to interact directly with the audience."
This isn't exactly true. Other mediums can be interactive also to some extent. Stage plays (or any kind of live performance) can involve audience participation, pieces of art (like murals) can have contributions made by people other than the original creators, and there's the example of "chose your own adventure" books. I think it would be more correct to say that video games are unique in that their intractability is generally the first and foremost consideration.
+MegaBearsFan I shorten the sentiment like that for the sake of not going into a bit side-note about it in every video, but you're technically correct. I think it would be accurate to say that no other art form has integrated interactivity to such a degree, and thus that no other art form has involved the player on such a deep level as a basic part of its nature. To a point where I think "video games are unique because of interactivity" is a functionally accurate statement, if not technically.
'Video games are unique for horror because their'
"Interactive"
'Hey, you guys are learning!'
me-'Yay! Thanks! Your such a good teacher!'
One good trick I've seen a game do is to use the idea of fear as something to fear. The game Afraid of Monsters is an FPS (a Half-Life 1 Mod) where the PC has limited ammo and is surrounded by bullet-sponging enemies. What makes the game really work though is that most of the monsters are in the dark and the player's flashlight doesn't great a very big spot of light. This means that the Player has terrible tunnel vision and the monsters will ALWAYS get the drop on you. A good chunk of the game's challenge (for me, at least) isn't that the monsters will surprise you, and then they'll kill while you're paralyzed with fear.
I'd love to hear your opinion on Dead Space's Story and world building, because the games are actually well written and the world is consistent. I do understand where you come from, because I am myself a huge fan of Fatal Frame (or Project Zero) and I was soooo disappointed when I first played Dead Space, because it was advertised as this new subtle horror experience with burst of gory violence here and there.... and then I got brutal shooter action with a little bit of jump scares. I still don't really like the first game, even though I do enjoy the 2nd and 3rd game with it's focus on Lovecraftian Horror and the character arc of Isaac that reminds me of Alien.
I know you don't like Dead Space but there seems to be a good argument that Unitology in the games is a slash at Scientology (if not quite the author's specific intent). I haven't played the game yet but it would be interesting to see your thoughts on it.
Marcus Eckhoff That is quite possible, and not at all subtle given the similarity of the name. :P That said, it'd be more of a clumsy insult than anything, since I don't expect Scientology to find something actually dangerous and worship it in such a way that puts anyone in danger.
Unitology is kind of hazy in its details, and I didn't honestly know all that much about Scientology when I originally played the games, so it's entirely possible I missed something. I'll look into that deeper if someone ever forces me to analyze Dead Space. :P
Great video editing!
MaseBotGaming Thanks! ^_^
Since you got that Alien quadrilogy in the shelf, you should definitely play Alien Isolation. It does have its problems, mostly because it is way, waaaaay too long, but the game does a fantastic job at mechanically reproducing the experience of being hunted, and also at making you feel like Ripley did in the original 1979 Alien film.
+José Renato Fernandes I actually got it day 1, but I usually play through horror movies with my cousin (I'm a wimp), and he's on an Army base right now. I'll probably finish it when he gets back. :P
My first reaction to the first 10 seconds of this video:
professor: "I love s good horror game."
me: "Then why haven't you done a literary analysis of Silent Hill yet?!"
+MegaBearsFan Partly because it's kind of daunting. Partially because as much as I love it, Fatal Frame is my favorite horror series and I may end up doing it first. And partly because, honestly, the first year of this show was mostly me analyzing some of my favorite games I already knew front-to-back, and I've only played Silent Hill 2 once. These analyses are more difficult now that the games I know in and out have already been done. :P
+Games As Literature Indeed. Besides, SH2 is rather over-saturated when it comes to analysis anyway. So it was refreshing to see someone cite a different game (and franchise) as a standard of quality.
+MegaBearsFan Yeah, games that have a lot to unpack and already have a ton of literature on them are kind of daunting. I have similar hesitance with the Metal Gear Solid games. But I'm sure they'll all see analyses at some point.
I don't like Dead Space. But I also don't like when people bash games with horror setting, just because they decided to to use action gameplay. I have interest in horror games, not because of disempowering gameplay, but because I just like horror setting.
You can say, that this is a problem of marketing and those game should be marketed as action games, not as horror games. But I disagree. lets use Dead Space as an example. A lot of people find Dead Space terrifying. So I don't think that it's false advertising, to market them as horror games.
***** True enough. I take issue more with Dead Space's repetitive and predictable scares than its action gameplay; the atmosphere can be good at times, and the story isn't bad (for the first game, at least), but after the first hour or so I honestly played it like any other game; didn't even phase me. I just knew when all the scares were coming, because they were all kind of lazy and cliche.
I do agree action gameplay is fine; heck, Fatal Frame has a lot of action elements, and it's my favorite horror series of all time. Like anything, it just needs to be designed well to mesh with the horror, and I don't think Dead Space (or most of the games inspired by it in its wake) did that very well.
Games As Literature As a horror fanatic, I actually argue that Fatal Frame (don't crucify me for this) actually is more desensitizing than Dead Space. Because you constantly have to face them up close, you become less terrified of the ghosts (in my experience). While there is a fantastic story, and a creepy atmosphere, I found that the setting was too subtle and quiet without an overbearing sense of dread.
Dead Space however nails the atmosphere right off the bat. There are areas that are predictable, and I did not enjoy its use of jump scare tactics, but if you put that aside I find that the whole experience is much more immersive.
As you stated, we play as Isaac who is an engineer using cutting tools, rather than a marine with true weapons. With every action he makes he lets out an audible gasp or wheeze, showing both stress and a (subjective) lack of regular fitness. He is just as terrified as you are. I feel this is less characterized with Fatal Frame (crimson butterfly in this case), as Mio doesn't exactly show her terror outright, but whimpers slightly. This might indicate that she is strong, but I found that instead of a character I was solely controlling an avatar.
Let's look at the design choices for the games. All the information you need to know in Dead Space is on Isaac's back and his weapon, not on the screen in a way of a regular HUD. This way we have less clutter, and we have view of solely our protagonist and his struggles. We also do not have fixed camera angles. This allows for more action, as well as being more fluid.
However, with Fatal Frame we have fixed camera angles, but a camera-controlled shooting mechanism. These games are both shooters, in a sense. The fixed angle makes the core gameplay (shooting ghosts) frustrating rather than amplifying the setting, as switching between the two perspectives requires a precise direction of the avatar before switching to the camera. Another good example of this type of gameplay not working very well would be Metroid: Other M. If the view switching was not fundamental to the gameplay, the fixed camera would not be as cumbersome, and has been brilliantly utilized in such games as Resident Evil (pre RE:4) and Silent Hill 1-3.
The only problem with Dead Space that I find is that the horror is more in the story and the grotesqueness rather than the gameplay, and because of that the gameplay was then exploited for further games in the franchise to emphasize combat over story. Fatal Frame detracts from the setting and story with a combat mechanic that over-exposes the enemies you face, as you constantly must look at the horrors head on in long, drawn out battles. Both become a bit predictable, but their story is what holds them aloft. That being said, Dead Space did have more "go here, get this" vs. the exploration that Fatal Frame did.
To conclude, I like both games, but I prefer Dead Space as it feels more horrific and morbid in both gameplay and style. Fatal Frame has an excuse due to the hardware at the time, but I still feel that if you are to have combat in a game that it should be more intuitive and frustrating only due to a player's inability to act, rather than have actual mechanics get in the way of success.
Feel free to respond to any of this with your own critique.
+Kris Pervin Interesting. Excuse my long reply, but I enjoy this sort of discussion. ^_^
I kind of see where you're coming from, but I do still disagree, having played both trilogies. It seems most of your reasons come down to differences in age and style, which is valid, but not as important to me.
Both games are disempowering in concept--girl vs. ghosts and engineer vs. aliens--and that works fine in both cases, but I felt the action-oriented gameplay of Dead Space undercut that conceptual tension.
Dead Space tries to be realistic and engrossing in its presentation (thus the lack of HUD), while Fatal Frame tries to be cinematic. I believe this works well in both examples, and even love the fixed angles of Fatal Frame and the cinematic element they bring to it. I agree with your issues about the controls, but not only was the game made before such control conventions were common, let alone the standard, but I honestly didn't have much trouble adjusting. You just turn in the proper direction before raising the camera. So while I agree it could use some updating, I honestly take no issue with it.
Similarly aged is the audio you described; Isaac's grunts and such are great (if overused in some instances, like running out of oxygen), but it's hard to judge Fatal Frame for a lack of such things when it's on notably older hardware where such attention to detail was rarely possible.
As for being desensitized to the ghosts, I get what you're saying. That happens in most horror games I've played. But in Dead Space I was honestly only scared for the first hour, after which I had figured out basically every scare and tactic it had used. Ever since those opening bits, I went through the entire game without fear or hesitation, because they kept throwing these enemies at me and I knew how to handle them perfectly well.
In Fatal Frame they do consistently throw enemies at you, and you don't necessarily continue being deathly afraid of fighting each one, but they have other methods of increasing the fear. The most obvious is the fact that they regularly introduce new ghosts that operate in different ways, and use the level design to make each room a somewhat unique combat arena since the ghosts can move through walls. Then there's the psychological element of each ghost type's unique backstory, bringing not only the ghost itself, but the horror of its death, to every encounter ("my eyes," and "there's a rope" being memorable examples). And finally, the fact that exploring the mansion can be met with a random encounter, so you're constantly aware that something could attack you as you traverse the game world, and this randomness ensures it's not predictable like Dead Space was.
In Dead Space I knew when they were going to scare me, and I knew exactly how to handle nearly every situation they threw my way. Fatal Frame threw a variety of enemies at me with horrifying backstories and fitting designs, and used a creative visual metaphor within the gameplay to make me face them head on, and that scared me far more than all the atmospheric touches in Dead Space ever did. The result was that Fatal Frame genuinely scarred me (I still associate the smell of Mountain Dew Game Fuel with the game, since I drank it the night I played it), but Dead Space just kind of underwhelmed me. It's technically impressive, and the atmosphere is great, but the actual horror just fell completely flat for me.
+Games As Literature Never played Fatal Frame so I can't comment on it (though having a degree in Film Media, I'm now interested).
While I agree that the gameplay in Dead Space contributes little to giving the player a sense of fear, I feel there's something to be said for the more psychological aspects. Dead Space's backstory (essentially, the backstory of the Ishimura) is the true horror of the game, which presents an interesting, arguably humorous criticism of Scientology, of all things. Like Fatal Frame, Dead Space is a mystery and there's a certain sense of dread that comes from knowing that as you plunge deeper into the Ishimura in order to solve that mystery, the answer is likely to be, well, horrific. And it turns out that that is true. The necromorphs aren't the true horror of Dead Space, which is where the disconnect between concept and gameplay becomes obvious. The true horror is in the fact that the crew of the Ishimura lost their grip on reality, a fact that DOES become chilling when the player realizes that the wife who has been beckoning to Isaac to save her is, and has been, dead. Even as Isaac escapes in the end, the image of his dead wife next to him gives us the final TRUE scare: Isaac hasn't escaped at all.
This is where I feel the sequel gets a bad wrap (that said, ignore that the third one exists). Dead Space 2 begins with Isaac literally being assaulted by a vision of his dead wife, Nicole, a moment more traumatic than any encounter with the necromorphs. As one progresses through the game, her ghost continues to haunt -- and taunt -- him. Except it's not really her ghost. It's his own mind. Dead Space's truly terrifying conflict is not the exterior threat of grisly death or zombification, but the interior struggle with madness. Isaac's true battle is with himself, specifically his perceived relationship with Nicole and how despite his struggle for survival, he can't escape his own mind, and by extension, that relationship. Remember that the outbreak in this game is caused by the villain from the first game -- the Marker -- being rebuilt from Isaac's own mind. His madness literally destroys the world.
This is where the sequel does something truly unique by giving us the character of Ellie. Through their evolving relationship, Isaac repairs his damaged psyche until, in a final scene echoing the final scene of the first game, we see that Ellie has symbolically replaced Nicole. This time, however, there is no attack. Isaac truly does escape. This is not unlike the first two Alien films, the first in which Ellen Ripley survives physically but, as seen in the sequel, Aliens, has suffered considerable psychological damage. What repairs that damage? Her assuming the role of motherhood with Newt, the young girl found on the overrun colony. Like in Dead Space 2, Ripley not only survives with Newt but is healed because of her.
Dead Space (the first two games, anyway) do more than just provide scares. They explore themes of the connection between our deepest fears and our deepest relationships. Whether it be husband-wife or mother-daughter, Dead Space (2) and Alien(s) use survival horror to explore a more profound idea.
Hope.
+Eric Thompson ...I apparently need to play Dead Space 2 again. I spent most of the time annoyed at the painfully obvious jump/gore scares and the infuriating insistence on making it completely clear when Isaac was hallucinating and when he was lucid. I didn't catch on to any of that depth.
I definitely agree with what you were saying you made some good points in this video!
I was watching this episode after watching the "darker and edgier" episode, and I realized something:
horror has failed in most hollywood movies as a result of this approach.
think about it: Why was the original Japanese movie, Ringu, more superior than its Hollywood counterpart (even though the very first film, The Ring, was decent and bearable the first three times). Ring 2 suffered immensely BECAUSE it was attempting to be darker and edgier.
In contrast, The Woman in Black, to me, actually was good horror. It had its tropes, but it also had a wonderful use of story and themes amalgamated with its environment.
In the context of games, well... I think its when they try to be "darker and edgier" that they fail miserably. VERY, very miserably. Dead Space is not my favourite game, at all, but its approach is cool BECAUSE it is actually something I've noticed in other games which actually use it just as well as Dead Space does, but with more context, depth, interactivity, and general cohesiveness.
Like Condemned: Criminal Origins. THAT, is horror in my opinion. Or Penumbra (any Penumbra game really). PT HAD the potential of being the same, but I feel it was betrayed from the get-go.
Condemned: Criminal Origins, for instance, is actually really cool in how it uses its themes and story and interactivity. I remember how scared as all hell I was the first time I played it. I still remember how effectively it used its jump scares, and how much its first act alone made me cringe. It is a really cool game.
Penumbra, on the other hand, had its story. The first one, was good. Bloody good stuff that even today, really does scare me. outdated graphics practically make it worse than better, in that it has aged decently. The story is definitely a worthwhile experience but it depends on which Penumbra you go with. My personal favourite was 1, although its subsequent sequels were better.
In terms of mechanical horror though, I'm... surprised by myself when I wind up selecting Bloodborne and Dark Souls. SOME elements in those games were genuinely scary - I mean, beyond any shadow of a doubt I'll be traumatized in my dreams level of scary. Which definitely goes in its favour more than anything else. But yeah, still mechanical horror.
You should definitely check out Deadly Premonition, I'd be really interested to see what you thought about it.
***** Yeah, that's been on my list to grab and play for a while now.
Love your videos
0Letten0 Thanks! Always nice to know people appreciate them. Makes it a lot more fulfilling. ^_^
Hey, love your material and am mid-binge from the beginning as I type. Just a note since I know you care about the details, this comparison doesn't really work because Dead Space didn't really bring action horror to the spotlight. Everyone and their mothers will have their own opinion about this, but the dev team for Dead Space basically wanted to take Resident Evil 4 and put it in space. That game broke most of the ground upon which Dead Space was built, and Redwood developers discuss in the below game informer interview how that whole process ended up happening.
tl;dr comparing Fatal Frame to Resident Evil 4 would probably have more academic value. Unless, of course, you're strawmanning the genre by picking a somewhat weaker game, but we all know you're not going for that.
Keep up the great work, link below.
www.pcgamer.com/how-resident-evil-4-turned-system-shock-3-into-dead-space/
What’re your thoughts on Resident Evil? I mean, we’ve got about four different styles of games all within the same canon. Are there any you enjoy?
Amnesia. Nuff' said.
I, too, am a wimp when it comes to scary stuff.
When I first saw the title I thought it would be about how to make mechanical thing (like robots and machines) scary :(
I'm really sorry for my terrible speaking.
Well, i don't think i'm able to talk about this cuz it's really hard to scare me in games. Horror and survival-horror games especially, but i will try.
I think, that Dead Space tries to scare you not only with terrifying enemies and history, but with the superiority of monsters over the player. Like Lovecraft tries to show you how small humans compared to the cosmic beings, how vast their mind and how great their power. I think that something like that is used in DS too. Almoust every enemy is much more vital then simple human (they can kill you even without head or legs. At least they're trying.), they are stronger and faster and they can slice you into pieces like loaf of bread. Of course, you can kill them too but you need weapons and ammo or you will be taking too much damage in every confrontation.
And screamers. Yea, i agree, they are bad thing. You know that right now enemy will appear from this air vent with loud scream and you'll have to kill it. And that's the thing, i think. You know that you will have to face this strong enemy and you know that he won't come alone. Due to the fact that you have a little amount of ammo and meds. So, game is trying to scare you with challenge, that comes with enemy. Like you're some schoolboy and teacher said that tomorrow will be a hard test. And you can't just run through to the next room like in first three RE or SH. This part felts really strong on Hard difficulty level (for me atleast) and on second half of the game on Normal. Especially after you meet regenerating necromorph - an enemy that you can't kill, no mater how many times you dismembered him. Nemesis from RE have something like that, but he can be defeated for a short time.
What are some of your favorite horror games?
+randomguy6679 The Fatal Frame series is my all-time favorite, but I also really like Silent Hill 2, Until Dawn, and P.T. (yes, it counts).
WHY HAVEN'T YOU USED SILENT HILL AS AN EXAMPLE? WHY? WHY? WHY?
Fatal Frame is indeed, a good game - I read about it in an article, and saw some feed on it on RUclips and Dailymotion among other streaming channels, but honestly its not AS significant, as Silent Hill.
In fact, "I have no mouth and I must scream" also fits into that category of horror. It is genuinely terrifying. PENUMBRA is ten times more terrifying than Dead Space, and that game is relentless in how it scares the everlasting crap out of you! WHY HAVEN'T YOU TALKED ABOUT SILENT HILL (or Silent Hill 2, which is equally good, and has superior depth to it as well).
Also, side note, SHORT COMMENT FROM ME! YAY!!
Hey, sorry I don't really have time to fully address all your comments, but I did want to say real quick that I do plan on giving Silent Hill 2 a full analysis treatment at some point, but it's a little... daunting. I want to make sure I have some really good, comprehensive stuff to say about it before I take on a game that's already had so much analysis done on it.
Which, incidentally, is the same reason I haven't gotten around to Metal Gear Solid yet. That series is just plain intimidating.
Its alright, My comments are insanely long anyway. More like college essays than comments really ^^; Also, Metal Gear Solid is plain intimidating, but equivocally confusing... it is NOT for the ordinary viewer, so I can imagine that, as a person who does have significant provese in your field (and I respect that, by the way), you would find it intimidating.
And true, it has been analysed a lot over the years, but Silent Hill 1? Its kind of like Echo Night (again, I'm sorry for name dropping that game again and again and again, but it actually has this story which sticks out so brilliantly, plus its the better title from From Software) in that it is not analysed as much as 2 and 3. Even though of the three, its the one which made Kojima a household name (right uptill Silent Hill: Awakening at any rate).
Either way, I look forward to seeing more of your stuff. I'm enjoying them a lot :D Actually saw the SotC and Bastion analysis a few more times. Can't get enough of them. Plus, Halo's analysis is just as spot on (mostly because I've played and ended that game, and can relate with it).
Good stuff :)
Oh yeah Silent Hill and Metal Gear are indeed daunting but there is a lot of great things to analyze and discuss about the franchises, from the different types of horror across the Silent Hill games (1-4 at least) and the gene,meme,scene and love themes of the first 4 Metal Gear games. I'd love to see you get to these eventually, as I'm sure many others do (I can also aid you a little bit if you'd like as I've analyzed them myself in my free time) anyways I just discovered your channel and it is quite awesome Instantly subscribed after the first video I watched (Shadow of the Colossus to be exact). I have been looking for something like this for a long time, keep up the excellent work!
But, the tatoo is talking over!
Spoiler for DS3 it seems to me that you didn't play it.
I'd argue that DS3 is the best game for horror in the series, as it manages to communicate cosmic horror in a way no game I've played before can. You can fight through to the end, and essentially "kill god" succeed at everything, be a big action hero bad-ass, but you and humanity are still doomed, and your sanity may already have left you like a rat from a sinking ship.
I will never, ever understand the fan base that the Fatal Frame series has. It just isn't scary to me. All of the games are like very silly, very pretentious student films backed by the university's fashion department and acted by people who think this is their ticket to modeling success.
Anaylize Bloodborne!