Dave's Guitar Shop sent me this via email "I spoke with Dave this morning. At this point we feel it would be best for us to just cut our losses on this guitar and we will just pursue whatever legal action we can against them on the back end once everything shakes out. I super appreciate your help and willingness to assist in the situation. You got yourself a screaming deal on a guitar and one you should be able to easily make some good money on." I just assumed they had insurance for situations like this (which would have allowed for them to pay me back for initially purchasing it) but I'm not sure what happened as to why they never followed through on their initial offer to reimburse GuitarFinds. So we now have the guitar in inventory.
If they knew it was stolen, and then asked someone else to buy it on the basis of paying them for it, then it couldn't have been stolen, as if it had been stolen then they could simply have gone to the Police to get it back from the 'cafe vendor guy'. This means he can keep the guitar as it was known to be stolen when he bought it, but they didn't tell him. This puts them at the heart of a further scam, which the Police would probably have frowned upon. So Dave's has to swallow the original theft, and this guy bought it in good faith while having pertinent information kept from him. That's my guess.
Damn, they were trying to f*** you. If you would have sent the guitar off, I guarantee you would never been paid. They were setting you up to be an accomplice and getting the guitar back for free. Good you stood your ground .
And you got it for $7K???? Sounds like Dave's Guitar Shop deserves a one finger salute!!! They were gonna try to have it "stolen" by police from you...those dirty dogs.
I am extremely proud of you. You had to put alot of work into this. It's basically a whole line of scammers you were dealing with. It's so fu**ing time consuming and work related. You did exactly the right thing. You figured out the stores scam as they wanted the guitar back and would never pay you. This is just too much. You try helping people and everyone is out to screw you. It knocks the wind out of people like you who are just trying to do the right thing. Most of us just give up. I thank you, God thanks you and Jesus thanks you
Thank you so much for the kind words! It definitely was a long, frustrating process dealing with all of that. It can be exhausting when it feels like everyone is trying to take advantage of you, but I’m glad I stuck it out. It's tough, but I try to do the right thing, even when it’s not easy. Your support really means a lot, it’s nice to know that people appreciate the effort. 🙏
I was curious to read the Yelp reviews for Dave’s Guitar Shop and found one from last year stating, “The kid (manager) is an arrogant little hipster who belongs in a sleazy pawnshop.” Not sure if it’s the same manager, but it’s definitely not a great look.
WOW JUST WOW! Dave's has been my go to shop for 30 years and lately I gave up going there due to HORRIBLE customer service. I've spent 10 of thousands of dollars there and the past few years, when ya walk in there, the employees don't even say hello. Not a good look for Dave who was a pioneer for online guitar sales.
I wish I could say I had a better experience with DGS, but each time, when I attempt to rationalize their behavior, I keep going back to what the police officer told me over the phone and how their narrative was VASTLY different from what I knew to be the truth...definitely food for thought moving forward if I ever cross paths with them in the future. I'll be MUCH more skeptical of any promises made by that shop.
@@hmmmmm6034 I'm just being a smart-ass. I live really far away. I just meant that the chance of me being there are very slim. There are a lot of guitar stores between me and Dave's. . . but who knows, maybe I'll visit sometime? I'm sure the people of Wisconsin are lovely.
I appreciate the support! It’s definitely unfortunate how things turned out, but I’m glad I didn’t get caught up in their mess. It’s always important to stay cautious in situations like this. Thanks for sticking with us!
Dave's Guitar Shop was most definitely playing games here. There are only two reasons why they would fabricate the story they did with the Lacrosse police - they were embarrassed that they never pursued a fraud case initially with the phony credit card or they were looking to screw you over. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were saving face for not filing a police report initially. In either case, it makes me not want to do any business with their shop if the opportunity arises in the future (I am sure they are active on Reverb). You did EXACTLY the right thing by insisting they pay you first before you ship it. Looking forward to part 2 - I hope you nail this scumbag that is stealing these guitars.
This is definitely going to tarnish any positive reputation images people had of Dave’s guitars. I hope this video blows up and shows how shady they’re. 7k might not be a lot to them, but could be crippling to a small business. Subscribed to find out the outcome of this
Awesome storytelling. You were in the right, my friend. You bought the item in good faith reliance that the other shop would follow through with their offer. You would have been left with nothing to show for your effort to help that apparently much larger shop. No money, no guitar, just their empty promise and a jaundice look from law enforcement. Lesson here: document your deal to cover your ars!
Thanks so much for the support! You're absolutely right-that’s exactly how it played out. I went into it trusting the other shop to do the right thing, but in the end, it was all about making sure I wasn’t left empty-handed. Definitely a big lesson learned about keeping a solid paper trail to cover yourself, especially when dealing with bigger shops. It's not always easy, but staying sharp and documenting everything is key! Appreciate you seeing it that way!
Wow! You were correct not to send that back to Dave’s G Shop before getting paid. For them to miss represent info to law enforcement shows their dishonesty.
Thanks! Yeah, trusting my gut on that one was definitely the right move. It was pretty shocking to see the misinformation being passed to law enforcement-it just goes to show how important it is to protect yourself in situations like this. Dishonesty like that can really throw you for a loop, but I’m glad it all worked out in the end!
Nicely done sticking with your gut feeling. That shops sound like proper little con artists and by all rights should be taken for fraud and possible defamation of yourselves. Places like that deserve to go under. It's bad they wanted to screw you over but on the upside you do have a sweet guitar out of it :)
Thanks! Trusting my gut was definitely the right move. That shop’s behavior was pretty shady, and it’s frustrating they were willing to pull something like that. I agree, places like that shouldn’t get away with it-feels like they were trying to pull a fast one. But you’re right, at least I ended up with a sweet guitar out of the whole ordeal! Silver linings, I guess. 😄 Appreciate the support!
Unbelievable! A well known dead guitar dealer used to always say "the only way to be successful in the guitar business is to be a crook" Dave's Guitar Shop once sold me a vintage Hamer Sunburst that arrived with a broken neck. Dave's denied any responsiblity for the packing and said I was on my own.
A great year for a Stratocaster. you are smarter than me I would have probably mailed it off. It didn't look probable that they would have paid for it. Well done, I think it is a story worth telling. You always gotta keep the radar on.
Damn. With the reputation Dave’s has in the music community it’s utterly baffling that they’d misrepresent what actually occurred. I’m really glad you made this video because Dave’s absolutely needs to step up and address this situation or I’m sure this will end up creating a controversy on various guitar forums.
I am not an attorney but it is great that you are showing this. HOLDER IN DUE COURSE traps are almost impossible to move against except maybe by INTELLIGENCE. I would love to have vintage strats if I won the lottery, but things like this make me worried. Be well.
💯, I agree. Under different circumstances, that would have been a HUGE red flag and I would have walked away but by that time both Dave's Guitar Shop and I had agreed to go through with the purchase since the La Crosse Police department was slow to create a police report.
Well, I never heard of either of you before, but based on the evidence you present, I think you were absolutely right to trust your gut and not send it without reimbursement.
This is a what we need, ppl like you who do the right thing. First time seeing your channel and already subscribed. Keep spreading the light my firend.
Well wait wait wait wait LOL. What about the REST of the story? I'd guess that Tyler/Taylor either didn't do something right during the original purchase, and didn't want to admit it to the boss that he committed to paying you for buying it again, OR ... he's a middle man for the theft. There's a clear possibility of fraud somewhere in this story.
Месяц назад+4
That's sketchy behaviour from Dave's Guitar Shop. Outrageous that they would try to defraud you after helping them to recover their guitar.
Their behavior was definitely questionable, and it’s pretty outrageous how things played out. After going out of my way to help recover their guitar, being met with shady behavior was frustrating, to say the least. I’m just glad I didn’t ship the guitar off, as I feel like the outcome wouldn’t have been favorable for my small shop. As the saying goes, “no good deed goes unpunished!” 😅 It’s a lesson learned, and I’m glad I documented everything to protect myself.
I don’t know if the law is different in the US to the UK, but over here, your hope that the insurance company compensated Dave would mean the Insurance company now legally owned the guitar. You would be in possession of stolen goods. Just because in practice the insurance company is going to write this off without trying to claim ownership doesn’t detract from the fact that you would be dealing in stolen goods.
You definitely weren’t getting paid by Dave’s guitar shop If anything they were going to try and get you for receiving stolen goods if it went any further ! Luckily you documents everything and you had proof of a conversation in writing about payment ! Those guys knew damn well that once they had it they didn’t need to follow up on any money changing hands Because stolen property showed back up
It’s nice to know there are people like you wanting to help others. It’s awful to know that low life’s like the guy you were dealing with work in so called reputable businesses and are scammers. In the past, someone would have been thankful for your help. You did the right thing by not sending the guitar. Dave guitars, should have thanked you for all your help, organised collection and paid you $1000 for your time and help. What a bunch of scammers.
I really appreciate your kind words, and I agree-it’s unfortunate when people in positions of trust, like in a reputable business, turn out to misrepresent a critical part of a story to police. In the past, people would’ve definitely been more grateful for the help. I tried to do the right thing, and you're right, Dave’s Guitars could have handled things much better. I was naive at the time for believing that "the community" of guitar dealers and player need to help each other fight crimes like this but instead, it turned into a messy situation. Thanks again for your support-it means a lot!
@@GuitarFinds Just because many in society are now like the guy from Dave’s guitars, doesn’t mean we all have to be like that. I wouldn’t call it naivety on your part , as you did the right thing & you were still cautious, so you are actually astute. If all of society end up acting like Dave’s guitars, then there is no hope for a decent society. This may be just one guitar, but this lesson can be applied to any situation.
Two lessons to be learned here ... 1/ DOCUMENT EVERYTHING !!! 2/ You never find the right guitar ... the right guitar always finds you ! Well Done, and Cheers from the Land Down Under.
Good on you for documenting everything. Sounds like they thought they had a way to screw you and get the guitar back for free. A big f u to them for screwing you over.
@GuitarFins, A good job that you have confirmation to purchase the guitar that you suspected was a scammer, a real shame about the original seller expecting you to just ship it before reimbursing the cost. Which you more than likely would never have received. God Bless.
Nobody in the world sends out a product before it's paid for. There was no risk for them at all. If they sent you payment and you sent them an empty box, they would simply report YOU for theft at that point and their loss would get covered.
Sorry to hear you’ve had those kinds of experiences. It’s frustrating when it feels like a shop is more focused on the sale than on providing real value or building a relationship. A good shop should be about more than just making a buck-it’s about the passion for the instruments and creating a great experience for the people who walk through the door. Hopefully, you find places that do it right!
@chrishill264 Thanks, brother! Yeah, getting everything in writing and on video is key these days. Unfortunately, you really can’t trust anyone to do the right thing without covering your bases first! To Dave's credit, they recently reached out to me and it was a productive conversation. They're good guys that, at the time, put themselves in a bad place.
Thanks, I appreciate it! I won’t go as far as saying Dave’s is dirty, but their behavior in this situation was definitely questionable. It’s frustrating when things don’t go as they should, but I’m just glad we kept the "receipts" to show that we were only trying to help! I appreciate you watching and cheers!
Unfortunately, Dave’s Guitar Shop’s actions perfectly reflect society in its best lime light. Easily influenced by greed.. It is evidently no longer worthwhile to be a good samaritan in this day and age. They say don’t let one bad apple ruin the bunch, but unfortunately society is proving time and time again that: no good deed goes unpunished.
This is definitely going to tarnish any positive reputation images people had of Dave’s guitars. I hope this video blows up and shows how shady they’re. 7k might not be a lot to them, but could be crippling to a small business.
The bigger picture is that a "rare and vintage guitar" is nothing more than a commodity to these trolls. Same goes for "rare" stamps, coins, art, toy trains, cars, motorcycles, etc. These characters are dealing in all kinds of stuff that comes with real emotional attachment, not limiting themselves to only musical instruments. There is NO trust until trust is earned, scam or no scam. CAVEAT EMPTOR.
@johndonlon1611 I get where you're coming from, and I agree that trust definitely has to be earned, especially in any business dealing with rare items that hold personal value for people. At the end of the day, I do my best to make sure the guitars I deal with end up in the hands of people who appreciate them. It’s never just about the money-it’s about preserving these instruments and giving them a second life. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
If you see even a friend who scams and screws others, you should know they’ll screw you too! As someone new to the guitar buying community, I’ll never do business with Dave for sure!
I have a nightmare guitar story of my own, I took my guitar ( Seth Avett D35) to an established local shop to have it. Set up and to glue a bit of binding which hade come loose from the top and sides. I went t out of town for work so as asked my mother to go inspect it and pay for it , 35 dollars and the guys dad was a professional tech supposedly, she took possession of my Martin and it sat there for a couple of months till I got home, I opened the case and was horrified, they did ok on the string change, but I would not calll it a setup, bit the top sides and back had gobs of hardened glue just caked on along with glue finger prints. I called them right away! First they tried to say my Mother had inspected it and accepted it, but then finallly broke down and agreed to have it repaired, it would have to be sent to Tulsa where it stayed for A year and a half ! I finally got the guitar back and it repaired well, but they had put some kind of polish on it that smudges with skin contact, The guitar was played by my father only once and he died unexpectedly soon after, so,I had no choice but to just keep it, I suppose it will add to its relic one day, so I decided not to take it back again, I still play it every divert day.
I can't wait until the next part! I'm thinking Dave's never filed the police report because then they could be charged with filing a false report and/or found to connected with the scammer(s).
Well deserved! You deserve every penny you make on it. Please ignore the idiot saying “you’re asking 20k on a guitar you paid 7k for” like they don’t understand capitalism and you should run a charity. Make as much money as you can and pat yourself on the back because you even risked your own safety doing this to help them. I’m glad it worked out for you in the end!
Ed Roman's Guitar Store stole or lost my 1982 Zemaitis Metalfront. I had left it there for work and repair and Roman died. When I went to the store the guitar was "gone". I filed a police report and never saw the guitar again until many years later it turned up on Rebel Guitars website. I contacted the shop and sent the police report to him. He responded by saying he had to send the guitar back to the owner cause it was on consignment and he wouldn't give me the "owners" name. A lot of scum in the guitar business.
You're truly a kind soul for wanting to help the other shop. Of course it's easy to see this in hindsight, but I feel you should not have bought the guitar. I would have passed the information on to the other shop so they can deal with the authorities and do what they need to do. EDIT TO ADD: You getting the guitar "off the street" is a positive, and I'm not a lawyer, but in the end, don't you still technically have "stolen property" on your hands? Or does that go out the window because Dave's didn't file an initial police report? I dunno just thinking out loud.
I appreciate your thoughtful comment! Hindsight definitely makes things clearer, and I can see why you’d think passing the info on would’ve been a good option and letting them deal with it. But here’s the thing: Dave’s (DGS) didn’t have a police report filed yet and time was of the essence. Passing along the information to DGS would have been just as good as not telling them or reaching out in the first place because they were thousands of miles away in Wisconsin, while the guitar was actively being shopped around / sold here in California. I felt the need to reach out to them and inform them of this because I would have wanted the same courtesy done for my shop if we were in this situation. I stepped up and reached out to DGS because there was no other action being taken, and leaving it “on the street” would have only prolonged the problem (and emboldened the crooks), allowing the scammers to continue scamming shops and some unsuspecting shop or person would have ultimately ended up owning this guitar. As for the "stolen property" part, that’s where it gets a bit more complex. Technically, yes, it was a fraudulent sale, but DGS explicitly gave us permission to purchase it, thus eradicating the "stolen" aspect of this guitar. In the end, I believe I did the right thing by preventing further fraud and bringing this whole mess to light (what I didn't mention in the video was that the general manager thanked me as the same people were trying to buy ANOTHER guitar from them! (If it worked once, they were trying to do it again). I know with hindsight it's easy to see how things could have been handled differently, but in the moment, I felt that time was a HUGE factor when the crook was literally trying to sell it to me in that moment...so I acted with the information and circumstances at hand.
Yup. I learned that two years ago. Though I can't really complain because buying a vintage strat for that price was still a solid wholesale price deal. But ya, lesson DEFINITELY learned.
You're in the right. Dave's Guitar Shop was in the wrong for omitting vital information to the feds. The fact that you still have the guitar in your possession leads me to believe DGS never paid you... If I were in that situation, I would not have made the purchase without DGS fronting the money in advance.
What a stressful situation but at least now you have a great story and can make YT ad revenue off of it 😉. Good on you for sticking to your gut! Idk I would've done the same... and definitely avoiding Dave's from here on out!
Dude, what a great video and sleuthing! I can see where Dave's may have been suspicious about the contact, but they really should have re-paid you once all this came to light. On the other hand, it could also be that there are two unscrupulous guitar shops in this story. The fact that the entire "deal" etc was video-recorded is a bit convenient and we have to question why one shop would even buy a stolen guitar for another shop. At the very least, this event is being used as a form of guerrilla marketing...
@personanongratis2082 Thanks for the positive words. I appreciate you watching and following the story. As for questioning my motives-look, I get it. The whole situation probably seems a bit too convenient, right? Why would one shop even go through the trouble of buying a stolen guitar for another? But the fact is, I was just trying to do the right thing and got caught up in a mess. I feel (and still do feel) that as independent small shops we have an obligation to watch each other's backs, especially when online sales are thrown into the mix and high dollar guitars are crisscrossing the globe and each one of those sales if done with a credit card introduces risk to small shops. And yeah, of course, everything is marketing to some degree and in this situation....I had a story that I simply wanted to tell BECAUSE I happened to record it. As a used guitar dealer, the best defense against the accusation of knowingly buying stolen property (which is a crime in the United States) is to have evidence of you not knowing it was stolen at the time of purchase or in this case, having approval from the affected party. So what you see as convenient and presumably suspicious by way of me recording the interactions is what I call a good old way of "covering my arse". I think the saying is never let a good crisis go to waste, right? Since I was effectively forced to keep the guitar legally, the next best thing was to just tell my story. Nothing more, nothing less.
Be careful they dont come after you for defamation with this video, which is full of speculation as to whether it was miscommunication or a dodgy shop.
@sandlmv8301 I appreciate the concern, but there’s no defamation here-just facts and my experience dealing with the situation I found myself in. Everything shared in the video is backed by documentation, and any speculation is clearly stated as my opinion, not as a definitive accusation. With the truth is on my side, I have nothing to worry about.
Your problem is that you still bought a stollen guitar that you knew was stollen at the time you bought it. So you don’t hold lawful title to it. While you may have a defense to a buying stollen goods/possession of stollen goods charge (i .e the lawful owner requested you make the purchase), resolving that defense and the title issue requires court intervention. And that’s a process you really don’t want to be involved with.
@noisemaker1078 I understand where you're coming from, but it’s important to clarify that I didn’t buy a "stolen" guitar-I made the purchase with the express permission of the lawful owner, Dave’s Guitar Shop. That distinction is key here, and it means I do hold lawful title to the guitar. The situation revolves around what’s called "conversion," and since the owner requested that I make the purchase, there’s no need for court intervention in terms of ownership. While I understand how it might seem complicated, it’s actually a civil matter, and given that I acted with permission, it’s unlikely any legal process would be necessary. Everything was handled above board!
Yeah i dont get why they would want to buy their stolen guitar back. Couldn't they have just reported the fraud to the police and when doing so said btw im in contact with the person who committed said fraud etc etc. And then they get their guitar back without paying a dime...
I hear you, and it’s tough to feel that way, especially after seeing how things have changed over time. It can definitely feel like the world has become more self-serving, and trust is harder to come by. But there are still good people out there, even if they seem harder to find. Hopefully, moments of kindness and genuine connection still shine through, even in a world that’s changed so much. Stay strong! 🙏
Thanks! Yeah, it was pretty clear that something was amiss and my fear may have actually come true if I had shipped off the guitar before any payment. I'm definitely glad I trusted my instincts and handled it the way I did. In the end, it all worked out, and I’m just relieved to have avoided getting potentially burned!
So basically, the guitar itself was never stolen. It was just purchased with a stolen credit card, right? The guitar is not stolen goods, the credit card was. Sounds like Dave's guitar shop may be on the hook to reimburse the person who's credit card was used fraudulently and now they want to file an insurance claim for the loss of the sale. So ya, naturally they don't want to buy the guitar back, they want the insurance claim money.
Yes! It's a subtle difference but very important one to distinguish. It sucks from a business standpoint that's how the legal system is set up by you're 100% correct, the credit card is the stolen act. Everything after the fact is bad but legally it is not considered stolen but obtained via "conversion." At the time when all this happened, I didn't understand it all. I just thought "oh well it's stolen." But now I'm aware of the difference and why it would have been difficult for Dave's Guitar Shop to recoup their loss unless they had super specific insurance for this type of situation (which few businesses have) since normal business insurance doesn't cover credit card fraud situations.
@GuitarFinds IANAL but have you consulted with one before listing this for sale? If I'm understanding correctly, the guitar was purchased from the other shop using a stolen credit card and then sold to you (at the request of that shop of course). It seems possible that the party who is ultimately responsible for shouldering the loss, whether that be the other shop, or their insurance company, may declare this stolen. This could set you, or the person who unknowingly buys this off ebay up for criminal charges. I know that isn't your intent, and never was, but this whole thing seems like a legal minefield now. I read your comment below about the other shop ceding the guitar to you, but if they make an insurance claim and provide the description and serial number to insurance, I'm not sure what would prevent them from adding it to a hot list? Like I said, not a lawyer, but it seems like a scary situation.
@ericamoss1497 I appreciate your concern, and you're right to be cautious, but let me clear up the difference here. What you’re describing would apply if the guitar was outright stolen, but in this case, it’s actually a matter of conversion. Conversion happens when an item is wrongfully obtained (like through fraud, in this case via a stolen credit card), but it doesn't mean the item itself is "stolen" under criminal law. Also, one important thing to note is that there’s no insurance for situations like this when a shop sells something purchased via credit card fraud. Insurance doesn't cover losses due to fraudulent transactions, so there’s no claim for the shop to file that would result in the guitar being flagged or added to a “hot list.” Since the legal owner, Dave’s Guitar Shop, ceded the guitar to me and gave permission for me to purchase it, I have lawful title to it. There’s no risk of criminal charges for me or any future buyer. The situation has been documented properly, and while I understand it sounds complicated, this is more of a civil issue between the shop and the credit card company. The guitar is legally mine to sell, and I’ve done my due diligence to make sure everything is in the clear.
That's so pathetic that a store the size of "Daves" with the inventory they have would be so pretty and underhand with someone who was trying to do the right thing from an up and coming shop. Lesson No1 - it's always best to keep receipts.
Great video. I'm a local dude and have in fact bought a guitar from your shop in Benicia, during your opening day (used white Mockingbird). Coincidentally have also bought 2 guitars (a Heritage LP and a Gibson SG) from Dave's Guitar in Wisconsin this past year. From a consumer perspective, I love both shops. I love what you're doing and I find myself always browsing your ebay store. But I also love Dave's Guitar - their prices are great, and their post-sale support is amazing on the 2 guitars I bought from them. Unfortunate all around but I will continue to support both establishments. Sad part is, these kinds of stuff are probably par for the course with most businesses. You are smart to have kept a paper trail.
Hey! It’s awesome to hear from you again, and I remember that opening day-glad you picked up that white Mockingbird! 😊 I really appreciate all your support, both back then and now. I totally get the love for Dave’s Guitar too-they’re a great shop, and it’s nice to hear they’ve treated you well. It’s unfortunate that stuff like this happens, but having that paper trail definitely helps. Thanks again for continuing to browse our eBay store and for the kind words. I hope to see you in the shop again soon! Take care! 🎸
At the end of the day I would’ve avoided spending any of your own money on something stolen. They should’ve been ready to wire you money instantly during the purchase. Or….have the police arrest the thief.
F**********ck no! You did the RIGHT thing man! I wanna say this the 2nd time I've heard a story like this involving Dave's, so it just shows me either their shop is a sketchy joint, OR Dave (or whoever prompted you to buy the Fender then lied to the police) is a sketchy douche. Either way though, you made out I'd say.
What I don't understand is why the police haven't confiscated this guitar and charged you with purcshasing and possesion of stolen property. According to the law it would seem you knew the seller did not aquire this guitar legally but you bought it anyway. It just seems worse than buying a guitar and not knowing that it wasn't legit.
Police haven't confiscated this guitar because it's legally GuitarFinds inventory now. It's not stolen property. The stolen (and thus criminal) aspect of his situation is the credit card itself. Any activity that happens with that stolen credit card afterwards is called "conversion" and is a civil matter. Since I had express consent from the previous owner, Dave's Guitar Shop, to purchase from the scammer, any claim in civil court would fall flat. So although it may seem to you like it's not right, that's the law and don't take my word for it, look it up and you'll see all that occurred was above board (with the exception of Dave's telling the La Crosse Police that I was working alone and without their permission).
It seems people from all walks and all corners of our country have acquired the same greed our government has… I buy and sell guitars and other musical equipment all the time for several years. I’ve been burned by greedy scamming bastards. So my degree of buying and selling has taken a way lesser amount due to my lack of trust in people these days. That in its self sucks because I used to enjoy that part of my life. It’s everywhere and in every industry. I hate it and it infuriates me everytime I hear of these things taking place on a regular basis…
At the end of the day, it is actually a stolen guitar. If I buy it from you, who is to say that Dave's guitar doesn't come after me when I list it on Reverb or Ebay? It sounds like a nightmare. I know a guy who's guitar was stolen 30 years ago. He kept the report, pictures, paperwork. It was a unique guitar. Years later he found it listed for sale and was able to get it back. The seller wasn't the thief and had bought it from the guy , whop bought it from a guy. Happens with classic cars too.
@Wishmasternet⚫ I totally understand your concern, but let me clarify a few things. First, I got express permission from the legal owner, Dave's Guitar Shop, to purchase the guitar, so this isn’t a case of stolen property. The theft occurred when the credit card was stolen; what happened afterward is called "conversion." Conversion is a legal term that refers to the wrongful possession or disposition of someone’s property without their permission. However, since I obtained direct permission from the legal owner to buy the guitar, this isn’t an issue of theft. At best, this could become a civil matter for the courts to decide, but since I received permission to purchase the guitar, it’s a moot point. Any legal action would end with me winning, given that everything was done above board. So, while I understand why it might sound complicated, there’s no risk of this turning into a legal nightmare for anyone involved. I wouldn't have posted this video for the world to see if I wasn't 100% sure about ownership of this guitar.
@@GuitarFinds You could be right on the legal aspect of this, but I'd guess most buyers would be turned off by the whole story. I mean you don't know what you will be getting in by purchasing this guitar, there could be litigation, police going after you, etc. That's a can a worms most people are unwilling to open, especially for $15-20K that you will be asking for this instrument.
@williamtm1965 I get what you’re saying, but the legal aspect of this situation is solid-I’ve done my homework, and there’s no lingering legal issues or risk of police involvement. I understand that the story behind the guitar might make some people hesitant, but it’s important to note that I had the legal owner’s permission to purchase it at the time and all of that has been documented. As for the price, when people are buying high-end instruments in the $15-20K range, they tend to do their own due diligence, and they’ll see that everything is above board. It might seem like a "can of worms," but the reality is, there’s no hidden drama left in this situation.
In my life I have found generally the biggest scumbags are the large merchants. They will screw you just because they can, and pass it off as you little guys are liars. Not every large merchant, of course. But I have found more than my share willing to do a little guy dirty. That's my take. Trying to paint you as somebody working with the thief? How would that even make sense? Why would you have even contacted them if that were even remotely true? What? To blow yourself in? I suspect they are looking pretty stupid right about now?
some people ruin the world.. it does not take many.. and if people put the efforts to create bad into being good.. the world would be much better off..
Absolutely, it’s frustrating how just a few bad actors can have such a big impact. If people put the same energy into doing good as they do into causing harm, the world would be a much better place. It really doesn’t take much to make a positive difference!
Good thing you didn’t send it to them. Is it possible they were suspicious of the instrument and wanted you to take the risk for them? You did a wonderful job with your record keeping of the entire transaction history.
Since Dave’s guitars blatantly lied to the police, not only were they in the wrong, the person who lied to the police needs to be arrested for false reporting.
not always but when companies get big they forget how they got there. Greed and hard business becomes their day to day. I personally saw it when I worked the mom and pop music stores. I was selling decent instruments one day and the next I was selling very cheap instruments for the same or higher price as before. I quit. my point. Don't trust anybody when it comes to business and money. you seem humble and I hope you don't change.
If the Lacrosse, Wisconsin police department has listed this item as stolen, then why are you not returning it to the rightful owner? If the owner, original owner, of this guitar is out all that money then why are you trying to profiteer off of a stolen guitar?
No, I found out two weeks ago when I spoke with Tylor over the phone that this guitar was on consignment, the consignee was paid out by the shop. So chain of custody went from consignor › to consignee › to GuitarFinds.
@@GuitarFinds So then it's up to Dave's guitar shop to take it out of this Tylor's ass in court then. Well pardon the pun but you truly did get a steal.
After speaking with Tylor, the General Manager, 2 weeks ago, I got the sense that he understood the dilemma his shop was in at the time. With credit card fraud, the shop is completely screwed (the charge WILL be reversed by the credit card company AND since this was a consignment agreement, Dave's is obligated to pay out the consignor). With the General Manager aware of that, the best way to recover their loss in this situation is to 1) have the police confiscate the guitar or 2) have someone buy it and unwittingly send it back to the shop that got defrauded. Unfortunately time was of the essence as the guitar was actively being shopped around for sale in my area and the LaCrosse Police were slow to act with a police report. Having the police report of credit card fraud would have completely changed the story. At the time all of this unfolded, I didn't know that there was no insurance or protections for credit card fraud. I assume Dave's Guitar Shop had such insurance or a way to recoup their losses, hence why I had no problem buying it on their behalf because I thought I was "helping another shop" as I would want someone to help out my shop. Lesson learned. Overall any shop selling online via their own website has 0 protection when it comes to online credit card fraud. (eBay / Reverb have protections against credit card fraud but in that situation, eBay / Reverb will be the entity that takes the loss and pays out the seller).
No way was Dave's going to pay you they already knew the credit card fraud while they were talking to you of course they knew they knew within 5 days after they sold it. I have a similar story here in the studio I have a 57 Strat closet Queen not quite as convoluted as yours but it all worked out in the end but I did get a great deal on it an incredible deal on the 57
You're asking $20k for a stolen guitar you paid around $7k for? What I don't understand is Dave's wanting to pay $7k to buy a guitar from the scammer. I thought it was going to be some kind of sting operation. But their cost on the guitar was probably $8k, they sold it for $15k in credit card funds that got clawed back, now they're into it for $15k. Why in the world would they want that? The icing on the cake was not wanting to pay you up front for a guitar they told you to buy. This wasn't a normal sale, this was you being down $7k at their request. Of COURSE they should pay up front.
That price is literally an example of "it's for sale..but not for sale." It's in inventory, so there's a price given to it.... but I also like to keep it around the shop as a reminder of this story. The shop has no intention of selling it at that listed price. I assumed they had insurance for this sort of stuff, which is why they may have offered? I'm not sure but that's what I thought when they gave my shop the green light to purchase it from the scammer.
@Jeremya74 Not a fault, per say. I was just explaining the mechanism of how they would have been able to reimburse me. I'll happily pay $7,000 for a vintage 60s strat any day of the week. I'm not complaining, just telling a story that I thought was interesting. When I made this RUclips channel, I made it under the idea that I'd just show the good, the bad and the ugly, without fault.
That's the sense I got from the totality of the interactions, especially after the police called me and informed me that the story DGS told the La Crosse Police was vastly different from what actually happened. I cant think of any other reason why their story framed me as "acting on my own" without their involvement along the way.
You shouldn't have bought the guitar. If Dave's Guitar went to buy the guitar, with the cops, they would have their guitar back; the guy would go to jail; Dave would be able to refund the person who's card was stolen, because Dave's theft insurance would have reimbursed him for it.
So let me get this straight-you believe Dave’s Guitar Shop, over over in Wisconsin, would somehow coordinate with California police, track down the guitar that they didn’t even know was for sale out here, and somehow swoop in to save the day? How were they supposed to know it was being offered on the other side of the country in the first place? And let’s not forget, Dave’s theft insurance would’ve covered the tab regardless of who bought the guitar (because the theft occurred the second that guitar left their facility, so insurance should have kicked in). Whether I stepped in or not, they would have been reimbursed. So no, me buying the guitar didn’t change a thing-if anything, it prevented the scammer from getting away with it by showing a pattern of bad behavior from the same individual.
I get where you’re coming from-unfortunately, not all guitar shops, especially some larger ones, operate with the integrity you’d hope for. It’s frustrating when that becomes the norm in some people’s experience. That said, there are still plenty of shops, big and small, that genuinely care about their customers and the instruments they sell. It’s all about finding the right places that value trust and honesty!
![Gucci Mane & Sexyy Red - You Don't Love Me [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j7IBqyFKT4c/mqdefault.jpg)
How did it work out that you were left with the guitar?
Dave's Guitar Shop sent me this via email "I spoke with Dave this morning. At this point we feel it would be best for us to just cut our losses on this guitar and we will just pursue whatever legal action we can against them on the back end once everything shakes out. I super appreciate your help and willingness to assist in the situation. You got yourself a screaming deal on a guitar and one you should be able to easily make some good money on."
I just assumed they had insurance for situations like this (which would have allowed for them to pay me back for initially purchasing it) but I'm not sure what happened as to why they never followed through on their initial offer to reimburse GuitarFinds.
So we now have the guitar in inventory.
If they knew it was stolen, and then asked someone else to buy it on the basis of paying them for it, then it couldn't have been stolen, as if it had been stolen then they could simply have gone to the Police to get it back from the 'cafe vendor guy'. This means he can keep the guitar as it was known to be stolen when he bought it, but they didn't tell him. This puts them at the heart of a further scam, which the Police would probably have frowned upon. So Dave's has to swallow the original theft, and this guy bought it in good faith while having pertinent information kept from him. That's my guess.
@@GuitarFinds Someone 100% got fired over this
@@mattcollins383 You think the owner fired himself then? 🤡
Dave’s Guitar Shop = Scumbags
Damn, they were trying to f*** you. If you would have sent the guitar off, I guarantee you would never been paid. They were setting you up to be an accomplice and getting the guitar back for free. Good you stood your ground .
And you got it for $7K???? Sounds like Dave's Guitar Shop deserves a one finger salute!!! They were gonna try to have it "stolen" by police from you...those dirty dogs.
I am extremely proud of you. You had to put alot of work into this. It's basically a whole line of scammers you were dealing with. It's so fu**ing time consuming and work related. You did exactly the right thing. You figured out the stores scam as they wanted the guitar back and would never pay you. This is just too much. You try helping people and everyone is out to screw you. It knocks the wind out of people like you who are just trying to do the right thing. Most of us just give up. I thank you, God thanks you and Jesus thanks you
Thank you so much for the kind words! It definitely was a long, frustrating process dealing with all of that. It can be exhausting when it feels like everyone is trying to take advantage of you, but I’m glad I stuck it out. It's tough, but I try to do the right thing, even when it’s not easy. Your support really means a lot, it’s nice to know that people appreciate the effort. 🙏
I was curious to read the Yelp reviews for Dave’s Guitar Shop and found one from last year stating, “The kid (manager) is an arrogant little hipster who belongs in a sleazy pawnshop.” Not sure if it’s the same manager, but it’s definitely not a great look.
WOW JUST WOW!
Dave's has been my go to shop for 30 years and lately I gave up going there due to HORRIBLE customer service. I've spent 10 of thousands of dollars there and the past few years, when ya walk in there, the employees don't even say hello.
Not a good look for Dave who was a pioneer for online guitar sales.
Dave's Guitars are a bunch of grubs and you can't trust a word they say.....
I wish I could say I had a better experience with DGS, but each time, when I attempt to rationalize their behavior, I keep going back to what the police officer told me over the phone and how their narrative was VASTLY different from what I knew to be the truth...definitely food for thought moving forward if I ever cross paths with them in the future. I'll be MUCH more skeptical of any promises made by that shop.
If I'm ever in Wisconsin there's no way in hell I would ever go to. . . actually. . . I'm never gonna be in Wisconsin.
Yeah Dave’s sucks. I’ve had two bad experiences with them on Reverb
@@abrahama2643where you from? There are some beautiful places in Wisconsin.
@@hmmmmm6034
I'm just being a smart-ass.
I live really far away. I just meant that the chance of me being there are very slim. There are a lot of guitar stores between me and Dave's. . . but who knows, maybe I'll visit sometime? I'm sure the people of Wisconsin are lovely.
Guess I won't be buying from Dave's Guitar anymore, which is fine with me. Glad you didn't get scammed by them.
Yeah. As if you live in Wisconsin. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
I appreciate the support! It’s definitely unfortunate how things turned out, but I’m glad I didn’t get caught up in their mess. It’s always important to stay cautious in situations like this. Thanks for sticking with us!
@@Great-Documentaries I buy a lot of my guitars and equipment online.
@@Great-Documentaries You know online shopping exists right? 😂 I've come across DGS listings on Reverb a million times...
@@Great-Documentariesthey sell and ship worldwide. It’s literally the first thing you see on their website. lol. You’re an idiot. #sadlittleclown
Dave's Guitar Shop was most definitely playing games here. There are only two reasons why they would fabricate the story they did with the Lacrosse police - they were embarrassed that they never pursued a fraud case initially with the phony credit card or they were looking to screw you over. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were saving face for not filing a police report initially. In either case, it makes me not want to do any business with their shop if the opportunity arises in the future (I am sure they are active on Reverb). You did EXACTLY the right thing by insisting they pay you first before you ship it.
Looking forward to part 2 - I hope you nail this scumbag that is stealing these guitars.
This is definitely going to tarnish any positive reputation images people had of Dave’s guitars. I hope this video blows up and shows how shady they’re. 7k might not be a lot to them, but could be crippling to a small business. Subscribed to find out the outcome of this
Awesome storytelling. You were in the right, my friend. You bought the item in good faith reliance that the other shop would follow through with their offer. You would have been left with nothing to show for your effort to help that apparently much larger shop. No money, no guitar, just their empty promise and a jaundice look from law enforcement. Lesson here: document your deal to cover your ars!
Thanks so much for the support! You're absolutely right-that’s exactly how it played out. I went into it trusting the other shop to do the right thing, but in the end, it was all about making sure I wasn’t left empty-handed. Definitely a big lesson learned about keeping a solid paper trail to cover yourself, especially when dealing with bigger shops. It's not always easy, but staying sharp and documenting everything is key! Appreciate you seeing it that way!
Wow! You were correct not to send that back to Dave’s G Shop before getting paid. For them to miss represent info to law enforcement shows their dishonesty.
Thanks! Yeah, trusting my gut on that one was definitely the right move. It was pretty shocking to see the misinformation being passed to law enforcement-it just goes to show how important it is to protect yourself in situations like this. Dishonesty like that can really throw you for a loop, but I’m glad it all worked out in the end!
Nicely done sticking with your gut feeling.
That shops sound like proper little con artists and by all rights should be taken for fraud and possible defamation of yourselves.
Places like that deserve to go under.
It's bad they wanted to screw you over but on the upside you do have a sweet guitar out of it :)
Thanks! Trusting my gut was definitely the right move. That shop’s behavior was pretty shady, and it’s frustrating they were willing to pull something like that. I agree, places like that shouldn’t get away with it-feels like they were trying to pull a fast one. But you’re right, at least I ended up with a sweet guitar out of the whole ordeal! Silver linings, I guess. 😄 Appreciate the support!
Unbelievable! A well known dead guitar dealer used to always say "the only way to be successful in the guitar business is to be a crook" Dave's Guitar Shop once sold me a vintage Hamer Sunburst that arrived with a broken neck. Dave's denied any responsiblity for the packing and said I was on my own.
Wwwooowww that's horrible. That's NOT how it's supposed to work. 😔
A great year for a Stratocaster. you are smarter than me I would have probably mailed it off. It didn't look probable that they would have paid for it. Well done, I think it is a story worth telling. You always gotta keep the radar on.
Damn. With the reputation Dave’s has in the music community it’s utterly baffling that they’d misrepresent what actually occurred.
I’m really glad you made this video because Dave’s absolutely needs to step up and address this situation or I’m sure this will end up creating a controversy on various guitar forums.
Dodged a bullet not sending that guitar back broski, always trust your gut
I am not an attorney but it is great that you are showing this. HOLDER IN DUE COURSE traps are almost impossible to move against except maybe by INTELLIGENCE. I would love to have vintage strats if I won the lottery, but things like this make me worried. Be well.
Meeting up with the "friend" of the seller at a coffee shop who knows nothing about guitars and likely knows nothing about "guitar music". Red Flag.
💯, I agree. Under different circumstances, that would have been a HUGE red flag and I would have walked away but by that time both Dave's Guitar Shop and I had agreed to go through with the purchase since the La Crosse Police department was slow to create a police report.
You extended a helping hand and in return, they tried to bite it. I know I'll never be buying anything from Dave's Guitar Shop.
Well, I never heard of either of you before, but based on the evidence you present, I think you were absolutely right to trust your gut and not send it without reimbursement.
This is a what we need, ppl like you who do the right thing. First time seeing your channel and already subscribed. Keep spreading the light my firend.
Great job, Dave’s guitar shop is trash for trying to do that to you. Trying to scam a fellow small business owner is ridiculous
Well wait wait wait wait LOL. What about the REST of the story? I'd guess that Tyler/Taylor either didn't do something right during the original purchase, and didn't want to admit it to the boss that he committed to paying you for buying it again,
OR ... he's a middle man for the theft. There's a clear possibility of fraud somewhere in this story.
That's sketchy behaviour from Dave's Guitar Shop. Outrageous that they would try to defraud you after helping them to recover their guitar.
Their behavior was definitely questionable, and it’s pretty outrageous how things played out. After going out of my way to help recover their guitar, being met with shady behavior was frustrating, to say the least. I’m just glad I didn’t ship the guitar off, as I feel like the outcome wouldn’t have been favorable for my small shop. As the saying goes, “no good deed goes unpunished!” 😅 It’s a lesson learned, and I’m glad I documented everything to protect myself.
I don’t know if the law is different in the US to the UK, but over here, your hope that the insurance company compensated Dave would mean the Insurance company now legally owned the guitar. You would be in possession of stolen goods. Just because in practice the insurance company is going to write this off without trying to claim ownership doesn’t detract from the fact that you would be dealing in stolen goods.
At least the police didn't tell you "it's a civil matter so it's out of our hands ... you'll need to get an attorney"!
You definitely weren’t getting paid by Dave’s guitar shop
If anything they were going to try and get you for receiving stolen goods if it went any further ! Luckily you documents everything and you had proof of a conversation in writing about payment !
Those guys knew damn well that once they had it they didn’t need to follow up on any money changing hands
Because stolen property showed back up
That Tom and Jerry guitar though!!!!!!!
It’s nice to know there are people like you wanting to help others. It’s awful to know that low life’s like the guy you were dealing with work in so called reputable businesses and are scammers.
In the past, someone would have been thankful for your help. You did the right thing by not sending the guitar. Dave guitars, should have thanked you for all your help, organised collection and paid you $1000 for your time and help. What a bunch of scammers.
I really appreciate your kind words, and I agree-it’s unfortunate when people in positions of trust, like in a reputable business, turn out to misrepresent a critical part of a story to police. In the past, people would’ve definitely been more grateful for the help. I tried to do the right thing, and you're right, Dave’s Guitars could have handled things much better. I was naive at the time for believing that "the community" of guitar dealers and player need to help each other fight crimes like this but instead, it turned into a messy situation. Thanks again for your support-it means a lot!
@@GuitarFinds Just because many in society are now like the guy from Dave’s guitars, doesn’t mean we all have to be like that. I wouldn’t call it naivety on your part , as you did the right thing & you were still cautious, so you are actually astute. If all of society end up acting like Dave’s guitars, then there is no hope for a decent society. This may be just one guitar, but this lesson can be applied to any situation.
Two lessons to be learned here ...
1/ DOCUMENT EVERYTHING !!!
2/ You never find the right guitar ... the right guitar always finds you !
Well Done, and Cheers from the Land Down Under.
Good on you for documenting everything. Sounds like they thought they had a way to screw you and get the guitar back for free. A big f u to them for screwing you over.
Im in wisco and have bought many guitars from Dave's but this was shabby on their behalf. Im very surprised by this. Sorry you had to deal with this.
I need the next part I was so invested also by the way, I loved your channel. Love you videos keep them coming.
@GuitarFins, A good job that you have confirmation to purchase the guitar that you suspected was a scammer, a real shame about the original seller expecting you to just ship it before reimbursing the cost. Which you more than likely would never have received. God Bless.
Looks like everyone wins. Dave gets paid, Scammer gets paid and you get it for half price.
Nobody in the world sends out a product before it's paid for. There was no risk for them at all. If they sent you payment and you sent them an empty box, they would simply report YOU for theft at that point and their loss would get covered.
That Musicmaster bass on the background. 🔥
Glad it found a good, loving home. It was an interesting tale, how it got there, though. Thanks for sharing. And you tell it so well!
I have never had great experience with guitar shops that are desperate to make a buck
Sorry to hear you’ve had those kinds of experiences. It’s frustrating when it feels like a shop is more focused on the sale than on providing real value or building a relationship. A good shop should be about more than just making a buck-it’s about the passion for the instruments and creating a great experience for the people who walk through the door. Hopefully, you find places that do it right!
Good work getting everything in writing and video brother!! You can’t trust anyone
@chrishill264 Thanks, brother! Yeah, getting everything in writing and on video is key these days. Unfortunately, you really can’t trust anyone to do the right thing without covering your bases first!
To Dave's credit, they recently reached out to me and it was a productive conversation. They're good guys that, at the time, put themselves in a bad place.
Good on you man!!! It seems that Dave’s is DIRTY!
Thanks, I appreciate it! I won’t go as far as saying Dave’s is dirty, but their behavior in this situation was definitely questionable. It’s frustrating when things don’t go as they should, but I’m just glad we kept the "receipts" to show that we were only trying to help! I appreciate you watching and cheers!
Just a simple cheers from Bundaberg mate, I really wish your shop was in OZ. cheers mate.
Unfortunately, Dave’s Guitar Shop’s actions perfectly reflect society in its best lime light. Easily influenced by greed.. It is evidently no longer worthwhile to be a good samaritan in this day and age. They say don’t let one bad apple ruin the bunch, but unfortunately society is proving time and time again that: no good deed goes unpunished.
Society has eroded so much that it'll never be fixed
This is definitely going to tarnish any positive reputation images people had of Dave’s guitars. I hope this video blows up and shows how shady they’re. 7k might not be a lot to them, but could be crippling to a small business.
You can trust us, we’re a BIG guitar shop. Dave is in here like seven days a week. Lol.
Haha, right?! "You can trust us, we’re big!" seems like the classic line. 😄 Size doesn’t always equal trustworthiness!
The bigger picture is that a "rare and vintage guitar" is nothing more than a commodity to these trolls. Same goes for "rare" stamps, coins, art, toy trains, cars, motorcycles, etc. These characters are dealing in all kinds of stuff that comes with real emotional attachment, not limiting themselves to only musical instruments. There is NO trust until trust is earned, scam or no scam. CAVEAT EMPTOR.
@johndonlon1611 I get where you're coming from, and I agree that trust definitely has to be earned, especially in any business dealing with rare items that hold personal value for people. At the end of the day, I do my best to make sure the guitars I deal with end up in the hands of people who appreciate them. It’s never just about the money-it’s about preserving these instruments and giving them a second life. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@GuitarFinds CAVEAT EMPTOR applies across the board. That includes me and you.
If you see even a friend who scams and screws others, you should know they’ll screw you too! As someone new to the guitar buying community, I’ll never do business with Dave for sure!
I have a nightmare guitar story of my own, I took my guitar ( Seth Avett D35) to an established local shop to have it. Set up and to glue a bit of binding which hade come loose from the top and sides. I went t out of town for work so as asked my mother to go inspect it and pay for it , 35 dollars and the guys dad was a professional tech supposedly, she took possession of my Martin and it sat there for a couple of months till I got home, I opened the case and was horrified, they did ok on the string change, but I would not calll it a setup, bit the top sides and back had gobs of hardened glue just caked on along with glue finger prints. I called them right away! First they tried to say my Mother had inspected it and accepted it, but then finallly broke down and agreed to have it repaired, it would have to be sent to Tulsa where it stayed for A year and a half ! I finally got the guitar back and it repaired well, but they had put some kind of polish on it that smudges with skin contact, The guitar was played by my father only once and he died unexpectedly soon after, so,I had no choice but to just keep it, I suppose it will add to its relic one day, so I decided not to take it back again, I still play it every divert day.
I can't wait until the next part! I'm thinking Dave's never filed the police report because then they could be charged with filing a false report and/or found to connected with the scammer(s).
Well deserved! You deserve every penny you make on it. Please ignore the idiot saying “you’re asking 20k on a guitar you paid 7k for” like they don’t understand capitalism and you should run a charity. Make as much money as you can and pat yourself on the back because you even risked your own safety doing this to help them. I’m glad it worked out for you in the end!
Ed Roman's Guitar Store stole or lost my 1982 Zemaitis Metalfront. I had left it there for work and repair and Roman died. When I went to the store the guitar was "gone". I filed a police report and never saw the guitar again until many years later it turned up on Rebel Guitars website. I contacted the shop and sent the police report to him. He responded by saying he had to send the guitar back to the owner cause it was on consignment and he wouldn't give me the "owners" name. A lot of scum in the guitar business.
You're truly a kind soul for wanting to help the other shop. Of course it's easy to see this in hindsight, but I feel you should not have bought the guitar. I would have passed the information on to the other shop so they can deal with the authorities and do what they need to do. EDIT TO ADD: You getting the guitar "off the street" is a positive, and I'm not a lawyer, but in the end, don't you still technically have "stolen property" on your hands? Or does that go out the window because Dave's didn't file an initial police report? I dunno just thinking out loud.
I appreciate your thoughtful comment! Hindsight definitely makes things clearer, and I can see why you’d think passing the info on would’ve been a good option and letting them deal with it. But here’s the thing: Dave’s (DGS) didn’t have a police report filed yet and time was of the essence. Passing along the information to DGS would have been just as good as not telling them or reaching out in the first place because they were thousands of miles away in Wisconsin, while the guitar was actively being shopped around / sold here in California. I felt the need to reach out to them and inform them of this because I would have wanted the same courtesy done for my shop if we were in this situation. I stepped up and reached out to DGS because there was no other action being taken, and leaving it “on the street” would have only prolonged the problem (and emboldened the crooks), allowing the scammers to continue scamming shops and some unsuspecting shop or person would have ultimately ended up owning this guitar.
As for the "stolen property" part, that’s where it gets a bit more complex. Technically, yes, it was a fraudulent sale, but DGS explicitly gave us permission to purchase it, thus eradicating the "stolen" aspect of this guitar. In the end, I believe I did the right thing by preventing further fraud and bringing this whole mess to light (what I didn't mention in the video was that the general manager thanked me as the same people were trying to buy ANOTHER guitar from them! (If it worked once, they were trying to do it again). I know with hindsight it's easy to see how things could have been handled differently, but in the moment, I felt that time was a HUGE factor when the crook was literally trying to sell it to me in that moment...so I acted with the information and circumstances at hand.
Never buy anything on someone else's behalf. Lesson learned many years ago
Yup. I learned that two years ago. Though I can't really complain because buying a vintage strat for that price was still a solid wholesale price deal. But ya, lesson DEFINITELY learned.
No good deeds go unpunished
@chevy4x466 Exactly! I learned what that phrase meant on that day. 😬😔😅
You're in the right. Dave's Guitar Shop was in the wrong for omitting vital information to the feds. The fact that you still have the guitar in your possession leads me to believe DGS never paid you... If I were in that situation, I would not have made the purchase without DGS fronting the money in advance.
What a stressful situation but at least now you have a great story and can make YT ad revenue off of it 😉. Good on you for sticking to your gut! Idk I would've done the same... and definitely avoiding Dave's from here on out!
Keep it.
Ya that's what ultimately happened. Dave's told me to just keep it. So silver lining.
Dude, what a great video and sleuthing!
I can see where Dave's may have been suspicious about the contact, but they really should have re-paid you once all this came to light.
On the other hand, it could also be that there are two unscrupulous guitar shops in this story. The fact that the entire "deal" etc was video-recorded is a bit convenient and we have to question why one shop would even buy a stolen guitar for another shop. At the very least, this event is being used as a form of guerrilla marketing...
@personanongratis2082 Thanks for the positive words. I appreciate you watching and following the story.
As for questioning my motives-look, I get it. The whole situation probably seems a bit too convenient, right? Why would one shop even go through the trouble of buying a stolen guitar for another? But the fact is, I was just trying to do the right thing and got caught up in a mess. I feel (and still do feel) that as independent small shops we have an obligation to watch each other's backs, especially when online sales are thrown into the mix and high dollar guitars are crisscrossing the globe and each one of those sales if done with a credit card introduces risk to small shops.
And yeah, of course, everything is marketing to some degree and in this situation....I had a story that I simply wanted to tell BECAUSE I happened to record it. As a used guitar dealer, the best defense against the accusation of knowingly buying stolen property (which is a crime in the United States) is to have evidence of you not knowing it was stolen at the time of purchase or in this case, having approval from the affected party. So what you see as convenient and presumably suspicious by way of me recording the interactions is what I call a good old way of "covering my arse".
I think the saying is never let a good crisis go to waste, right? Since I was effectively forced to keep the guitar legally, the next best thing was to just tell my story. Nothing more, nothing less.
Be careful they dont come after you for defamation with this video, which is full of speculation as to whether it was miscommunication or a dodgy shop.
@sandlmv8301 I appreciate the concern, but there’s no defamation here-just facts and my experience dealing with the situation I found myself in. Everything shared in the video is backed by documentation, and any speculation is clearly stated as my opinion, not as a definitive accusation. With the truth is on my side, I have nothing to worry about.
Smart on your part...well played.
Tom and jerry guitar with jerry on the headstock wtf that’s cooool
Ya! It's a Tom and Jerry ESP guitar of all brands!😅
Wow. Screw them. I’d resell it or keep it just because they tried to screw you over for being a helpful person.
Your problem is that you still bought a stollen guitar that you knew was stollen at the time you bought it. So you don’t hold lawful title to it. While you may have a defense to a buying stollen goods/possession of stollen goods charge (i .e the lawful owner requested you make the purchase), resolving that defense and the title issue requires court intervention. And that’s a process you really don’t want to be involved with.
@noisemaker1078 I understand where you're coming from, but it’s important to clarify that I didn’t buy a "stolen" guitar-I made the purchase with the express permission of the lawful owner, Dave’s Guitar Shop. That distinction is key here, and it means I do hold lawful title to the guitar.
The situation revolves around what’s called "conversion," and since the owner requested that I make the purchase, there’s no need for court intervention in terms of ownership. While I understand how it might seem complicated, it’s actually a civil matter, and given that I acted with permission, it’s unlikely any legal process would be necessary. Everything was handled above board!
I like stollen at Christmas. Definitely tastier than mince pies!
Yummy! 😋
Yeah i dont get why they would want to buy their stolen guitar back. Couldn't they have just reported the fraud to the police and when doing so said btw im in contact with the person who committed said fraud etc etc. And then they get their guitar back without paying a dime...
You did the right thing !
But If it was me as soon as I got one red flag at the start of all this I would have walked away
Unfortunately now im in my 50s, ive learnt not to help/trust anyone, world isnt as it was, greed and self serving society it has become.😢
I hear you, and it’s tough to feel that way, especially after seeing how things have changed over time. It can definitely feel like the world has become more self-serving, and trust is harder to come by. But there are still good people out there, even if they seem harder to find. Hopefully, moments of kindness and genuine connection still shine through, even in a world that’s changed so much. Stay strong! 🙏
Sounds like you got that guitar at a good price. I hope you are able to sell it for a good profit.
@seric4546 yea, we did. So that was the silver lining on an otherwise disappointing story. Thank you for the kind words!
You definitely weren't going to get paid, glad it worked out in your favor
Thanks! Yeah, it was pretty clear that something was amiss and my fear may have actually come true if I had shipped off the guitar before any payment. I'm definitely glad I trusted my instincts and handled it the way I did. In the end, it all worked out, and I’m just relieved to have avoided getting potentially burned!
So basically, the guitar itself was never stolen. It was just purchased with a stolen credit card, right? The guitar is not stolen goods, the credit card was. Sounds like Dave's guitar shop may be on the hook to reimburse the person who's credit card was used fraudulently and now they want to file an insurance claim for the loss of the sale. So ya, naturally they don't want to buy the guitar back, they want the insurance claim money.
Yes! It's a subtle difference but very important one to distinguish. It sucks from a business standpoint that's how the legal system is set up by you're 100% correct, the credit card is the stolen act. Everything after the fact is bad but legally it is not considered stolen but obtained via "conversion."
At the time when all this happened, I didn't understand it all. I just thought "oh well it's stolen." But now I'm aware of the difference and why it would have been difficult for Dave's Guitar Shop to recoup their loss unless they had super specific insurance for this type of situation (which few businesses have) since normal business insurance doesn't cover credit card fraud situations.
@GuitarFinds IANAL but have you consulted with one before listing this for sale? If I'm understanding correctly, the guitar was purchased from the other shop using a stolen credit card and then sold to you (at the request of that shop of course). It seems possible that the party who is ultimately responsible for shouldering the loss, whether that be the other shop, or their insurance company, may declare this stolen.
This could set you, or the person who unknowingly buys this off ebay up for criminal charges. I know that isn't your intent, and never was, but this whole thing seems like a legal minefield now. I read your comment below about the other shop ceding the guitar to you, but if they make an insurance claim and provide the description and serial number to insurance, I'm not sure what would prevent them from adding it to a hot list? Like I said, not a lawyer, but it seems like a scary situation.
@ericamoss1497 I appreciate your concern, and you're right to be cautious, but let me clear up the difference here. What you’re describing would apply if the guitar was outright stolen, but in this case, it’s actually a matter of conversion. Conversion happens when an item is wrongfully obtained (like through fraud, in this case via a stolen credit card), but it doesn't mean the item itself is "stolen" under criminal law.
Also, one important thing to note is that there’s no insurance for situations like this when a shop sells something purchased via credit card fraud. Insurance doesn't cover losses due to fraudulent transactions, so there’s no claim for the shop to file that would result in the guitar being flagged or added to a “hot list.”
Since the legal owner, Dave’s Guitar Shop, ceded the guitar to me and gave permission for me to purchase it, I have lawful title to it. There’s no risk of criminal charges for me or any future buyer. The situation has been documented properly, and while I understand it sounds complicated, this is more of a civil issue between the shop and the credit card company. The guitar is legally mine to sell, and I’ve done my due diligence to make sure everything is in the clear.
@@GuitarFinds good deal, it sounds like you've covered all the bases. Sorry you went through this!
That's so pathetic that a store the size of "Daves" with the inventory they have would be so pretty and underhand with someone who was trying to do the right thing from an up and coming shop.
Lesson No1 - it's always best to keep receipts.
Well....every vintage guitar has a story.
Great video. I'm a local dude and have in fact bought a guitar from your shop in Benicia, during your opening day (used white Mockingbird). Coincidentally have also bought 2 guitars (a Heritage LP and a Gibson SG) from Dave's Guitar in Wisconsin this past year. From a consumer perspective, I love both shops. I love what you're doing and I find myself always browsing your ebay store. But I also love Dave's Guitar - their prices are great, and their post-sale support is amazing on the 2 guitars I bought from them.
Unfortunate all around but I will continue to support both establishments. Sad part is, these kinds of stuff are probably par for the course with most businesses. You are smart to have kept a paper trail.
Hey! It’s awesome to hear from you again, and I remember that opening day-glad you picked up that white Mockingbird! 😊 I really appreciate all your support, both back then and now. I totally get the love for Dave’s Guitar too-they’re a great shop, and it’s nice to hear they’ve treated you well. It’s unfortunate that stuff like this happens, but having that paper trail definitely helps. Thanks again for continuing to browse our eBay store and for the kind words. I hope to see you in the shop again soon!
Take care! 🎸
At the end of the day I would’ve avoided spending any of your own money on something stolen. They should’ve been ready to wire you money instantly during the purchase. Or….have the police arrest the thief.
F**********ck no! You did the RIGHT thing man! I wanna say this the 2nd time I've heard a story like this involving Dave's, so it just shows me either their shop is a sketchy joint, OR Dave (or whoever prompted you to buy the Fender then lied to the police) is a sketchy douche. Either way though, you made out I'd say.
What I don't understand is why the police haven't confiscated this guitar and charged you with purcshasing and possesion of stolen property. According to the law it would seem you knew the seller did not aquire this guitar legally but you bought it anyway. It just seems worse than buying a guitar and not knowing that it wasn't legit.
Police haven't confiscated this guitar because it's legally GuitarFinds inventory now. It's not stolen property. The stolen (and thus criminal) aspect of his situation is the credit card itself. Any activity that happens with that stolen credit card afterwards is called "conversion" and is a civil matter. Since I had express consent from the previous owner, Dave's Guitar Shop, to purchase from the scammer, any claim in civil court would fall flat. So although it may seem to you like it's not right, that's the law and don't take my word for it, look it up and you'll see all that occurred was above board (with the exception of Dave's telling the La Crosse Police that I was working alone and without their permission).
It seems people from all walks and all corners of our country have acquired the same greed our government has… I buy and sell guitars and other musical equipment all the time for several years. I’ve been burned by greedy scamming bastards. So my degree of buying and selling has taken a way lesser amount due to my lack of trust in people these days. That in its self sucks because I used to enjoy that part of my life. It’s everywhere and in every industry. I hate it and it infuriates me everytime I hear of these things taking place on a regular basis…
At the end of the day, it is actually a stolen guitar. If I buy it from you, who is to say that Dave's guitar doesn't come after me when I list it on Reverb or Ebay? It sounds like a nightmare. I know a guy who's guitar was stolen 30 years ago. He kept the report, pictures, paperwork. It was a unique guitar. Years later he found it listed for sale and was able to get it back. The seller wasn't the thief and had bought it from the guy , whop bought it from a guy. Happens with classic cars too.
@Wishmasternet⚫ I totally understand your concern, but let me clarify a few things. First, I got express permission from the legal owner, Dave's Guitar Shop, to purchase the guitar, so this isn’t a case of stolen property. The theft occurred when the credit card was stolen; what happened afterward is called "conversion."
Conversion is a legal term that refers to the wrongful possession or disposition of someone’s property without their permission. However, since I obtained direct permission from the legal owner to buy the guitar, this isn’t an issue of theft.
At best, this could become a civil matter for the courts to decide, but since I received permission to purchase the guitar, it’s a moot point. Any legal action would end with me winning, given that everything was done above board. So, while I understand why it might sound complicated, there’s no risk of this turning into a legal nightmare for anyone involved.
I wouldn't have posted this video for the world to see if I wasn't 100% sure about ownership of this guitar.
@@GuitarFinds You could be right on the legal aspect of this, but I'd guess most buyers would be turned off by the whole story. I mean you don't know what you will be getting in by purchasing this guitar, there could be litigation, police going after you, etc. That's a can a worms most people are unwilling to open, especially for $15-20K that you will be asking for this instrument.
@williamtm1965 I get what you’re saying, but the legal aspect of this situation is solid-I’ve done my homework, and there’s no lingering legal issues or risk of police involvement. I understand that the story behind the guitar might make some people hesitant, but it’s important to note that I had the legal owner’s permission to purchase it at the time and all of that has been documented.
As for the price, when people are buying high-end instruments in the $15-20K range, they tend to do their own due diligence, and they’ll see that everything is above board. It might seem like a "can of worms," but the reality is, there’s no hidden drama left in this situation.
In my life I have found generally the biggest scumbags are the large merchants. They will screw you just because they can, and pass it off as you little guys are liars. Not every large merchant, of course. But I have found more than my share willing to do a little guy dirty. That's my take. Trying to paint you as somebody working with the thief? How would that even make sense? Why would you have even contacted them if that were even remotely true? What? To blow yourself in? I suspect they are looking pretty stupid right about now?
Damn I'm really looking forward to how this story unfolds, Maybe you'll be the one to unearth the underground black market for stolen vintage gear!
Police officer at the end pretending to give a fuck 🥴
@joves3407 Protect and serve 🚓🚔🚔
Anyone paying over a grand on a guitar deserves to get scammed.
So I deserved to get scammed? 😿😿😿
some people ruin the world.. it does not take many.. and if people put the efforts to create bad into being good.. the world would be much better off..
Absolutely, it’s frustrating how just a few bad actors can have such a big impact. If people put the same energy into doing good as they do into causing harm, the world would be a much better place. It really doesn’t take much to make a positive difference!
In the next episode we find out it was already stolen when Dave’s bought it.
Good thing you didn’t send it to them. Is it possible they were suspicious of the instrument and wanted you to take the risk for them? You did a wonderful job with your record keeping of the entire transaction history.
Since Dave’s guitars blatantly lied to the police, not only were they in the wrong, the person who lied to the police needs to be arrested for false reporting.
not always but when companies get big they forget how they got there. Greed and hard business becomes their day to day. I personally saw it when I worked the mom and pop music stores. I was selling decent instruments one day and the next I was selling very cheap instruments for the same or higher price as before. I quit. my point. Don't trust anybody when it comes to business and money. you seem humble and I hope you don't change.
If the Lacrosse, Wisconsin police department has listed this item as stolen, then why are you not returning it to the rightful owner? If the owner, original owner, of this guitar is out all that money then why are you trying to profiteer off of a stolen guitar?
Check out and read the pinned comment of this video.
@@GuitarFinds So Dave's guitar shop was the owner of this instrument initially?
No, I found out two weeks ago when I spoke with Tylor over the phone that this guitar was on consignment, the consignee was paid out by the shop. So chain of custody went from consignor › to consignee › to GuitarFinds.
@@GuitarFinds So then it's up to Dave's guitar shop to take it out of this Tylor's ass in court then. Well pardon the pun but you truly did get a steal.
After speaking with Tylor, the General Manager, 2 weeks ago, I got the sense that he understood the dilemma his shop was in at the time.
With credit card fraud, the shop is completely screwed (the charge WILL be reversed by the credit card company AND since this was a consignment agreement, Dave's is obligated to pay out the consignor). With the General Manager aware of that, the best way to recover their loss in this situation is to 1) have the police confiscate the guitar or 2) have someone buy it and unwittingly send it back to the shop that got defrauded. Unfortunately time was of the essence as the guitar was actively being shopped around for sale in my area and the LaCrosse Police were slow to act with a police report. Having the police report of credit card fraud would have completely changed the story.
At the time all of this unfolded, I didn't know that there was no insurance or protections for credit card fraud. I assume Dave's Guitar Shop had such insurance or a way to recoup their losses, hence why I had no problem buying it on their behalf because I thought I was "helping another shop" as I would want someone to help out my shop.
Lesson learned.
Overall any shop selling online via their own website has 0 protection when it comes to online credit card fraud. (eBay / Reverb have protections against credit card fraud but in that situation, eBay / Reverb will be the entity that takes the loss and pays out the seller).
This sounds like the shop and the scammer are working some kind of con game. What's the chance of that seller getting another rare guitar?
I've bought from Dave's in the past and didn't have any problems, but this is straight up sleazy on their part.
Well played not sending the guitar!!
No way was Dave's going to pay you they already knew the credit card fraud while they were talking to you of course they knew they knew within 5 days after they sold it. I have a similar story here in the studio I have a 57 Strat closet Queen not quite as convoluted as yours but it all worked out in the end but I did get a great deal on it an incredible deal on the 57
I think you could offer them to pay for your flight tickets to hand the guitar straight to them…you already have proofs enough 😊
You're asking $20k for a stolen guitar you paid around $7k for?
What I don't understand is Dave's wanting to pay $7k to buy a guitar from the scammer. I thought it was going to be some kind of sting operation. But their cost on the guitar was probably $8k, they sold it for $15k in credit card funds that got clawed back, now they're into it for $15k. Why in the world would they want that?
The icing on the cake was not wanting to pay you up front for a guitar they told you to buy. This wasn't a normal sale, this was you being down $7k at their request. Of COURSE they should pay up front.
That price is literally an example of "it's for sale..but not for sale." It's in inventory, so there's a price given to it.... but I also like to keep it around the shop as a reminder of this story. The shop has no intention of selling it at that listed price.
I assumed they had insurance for this sort of stuff, which is why they may have offered? I'm not sure but that's what I thought when they gave my shop the green light to purchase it from the scammer.
@@GuitarFindsyour fault for assuming
@Jeremya74 Not a fault, per say. I was just explaining the mechanism of how they would have been able to reimburse me. I'll happily pay $7,000 for a vintage 60s strat any day of the week. I'm not complaining, just telling a story that I thought was interesting. When I made this RUclips channel, I made it under the idea that I'd just show the good, the bad and the ugly, without fault.
Good for you , that nagging thought was a good thing.
He didn’t pay $7k. He payed less. He was going to make a profit from Dave’s
Really good content. You should have more views!
so no more guitars from dave for me that's for shure ,unbelievable these people
Dave's thought you were the thief trying to sell the guitar back to them?
That's the sense I got from the totality of the interactions, especially after the police called me and informed me that the story DGS told the La Crosse Police was vastly different from what actually happened. I cant think of any other reason why their story framed me as "acting on my own" without their involvement along the way.
Something that expensive should be in reverb
Reverb is cool.
You shouldn't have bought the guitar.
If Dave's Guitar went to buy the guitar, with the cops, they would have their guitar back; the guy would go to jail; Dave would be able to refund the person who's card was stolen, because Dave's theft insurance would have reimbursed him for it.
So let me get this straight-you believe Dave’s Guitar Shop, over over in Wisconsin, would somehow coordinate with California police, track down the guitar that they didn’t even know was for sale out here, and somehow swoop in to save the day? How were they supposed to know it was being offered on the other side of the country in the first place?
And let’s not forget, Dave’s theft insurance would’ve covered the tab regardless of who bought the guitar (because the theft occurred the second that guitar left their facility, so insurance should have kicked in). Whether I stepped in or not, they would have been reimbursed. So no, me buying the guitar didn’t change a thing-if anything, it prevented the scammer from getting away with it by showing a pattern of bad behavior from the same individual.
@@GuitarFinds
You're a good man for getting involved.
Most, guitar shops,especially large one
man guita
r shops are crooks.not all,but this is common in my experience
I get where you’re coming from-unfortunately, not all guitar shops, especially some larger ones, operate with the integrity you’d hope for. It’s frustrating when that becomes the norm in some people’s experience. That said, there are still plenty of shops, big and small, that genuinely care about their customers and the instruments they sell. It’s all about finding the right places that value trust and honesty!