Egalitarianism in all forms is destructive and defies natural order, it is being forced on us but the reality of its pathology manifests as the social ills we're seeing in the modern world as critical theory permeates more and more of our culture.
Quake is a hard game to master but also an easy game to just have fun with friends. Imho the biggest thing holding it back is the fact QC was made to be an esport and offers little to no direction for a new player. That said, I think a Quake reboot with a full campaign, more MP modes, some with a higher playercount, and proper movement training levels could be just as successful as DOOM.
You're right. I hope the Quake reboot has a full and comprehensive single player experience and ways for friends to have fun together. That's important because even the public games in Quake are at a very high level, not even talking about dueling.
@@0d1nnquake14 They really are. If you are lucky there will be 1 or 2 players out of 8 (or up to 32 in QL) that are also newish. But if a new game was popular enough to flood the servers with noobies and use skill based matchmaking to keep the vets from scaring them off instantly, i think people would see how fun this game is. I mean, playing with friends who are at similar skill level to you is REALLY fun. The lucky midair shots, the map deaths to laugh about, its great. But you don't get to have that fun when you just keep getting killed by tryhards before you can grab a half decent gun and some armor.
Yeah I have played alot of competitive TF2, and TF2 is also fast pased and with rockets etc, but still not as fast as Quake. But I had an easier time learning it than a cs player would in my own opinion I would say. But that's just a speculation.
I think these older shooter's had imaginative level's that made it possible for you to take advantage of short cuts and airlifts. I think this still made you feel smart even if you were getting killed. They also had a future meets medieval aesthetic that kept things interesting.
This has been a sad reality I've been aware of since QC came out and I tried to get numerous friends into it. They ultimately stick with games like Overwatch where you can always blame your teammates for your failure, or CoD where you can bitch about loadouts or whatever. There's always an excuse for bad players who won't self-reflect, Quake purges those people fast. Furthermore, if you've ever read comment threads criticizing modern FPS like the new Modern Warfare, the issues always concern how the game doesn't make them feel good enough. The average FPS player doesn't ask "how do I play the game better", they ask "how should this game play better for me".
While I mostly agree with you, let's not bash Overwatch. It is certainly easier than Quake, but the game still requires a ton of skill, especially if you want to play at a decently high level. Besides the mechanical skills you need to learn for every hero, there are tons of team compositions and interactions that create near infinite possibilities/strats for teamplay. Even though there are many of those players in Overwatch that don't self-reflect, never truly improve and always blame the team, there's still lots of players in there that share the same mindset many Quake players have; just addiction to self-improvement/progress. What you said in your comment and what was said in the video is mostly true, but let's not be too elitist. Let's be more humble and not look down on other games that much just because we're Quakers :) And I'm saying that as someone who has been playing Quake for more than 15 years, with about 10k hours played and it being my fav game of all time. But I also play Overwatch and CoD. Let's show other games a bit more respect :)
@@disruptor6550 I get what you're saying. My point wasn't that those games don't take skill, my point was that they have mechanisms in place that provide bad players with excuses. I know certain QC players will pull the same bs over champion abilities, but those players tend to get laughed out of their nonsense.
@@groundtank Nah, This game is come out 5 years ago, and its shit. No balanced, buggy, and broken. The netcode is shit, and slow, and lags, even with my 40ping has lag spikes from server side. Most of the time praying for a kill, because a player one shot me from a ss from 99999999yard, how does 150dmg?how the fuk?AND not just me who says this, its on the reddit. There are users whose has this problem. Its because the netcode, either you can't do nothing with it, the server counts towards the slower or the faster ping users. Second problem with the game, its not possible to train. A new user will be killed fast, and the system what they added, this hidden mmr with that low userbase kill these players...they will leave soon and play overwatch because its much much easier and not need to be that pro on SELF, because its team game...
@@danielszenyan7286 rofl k. Its shit. Go somewhere else now bud. This is exactly the shit we are talking about haha you are just reaching for whatever you can to say its shit. Wanna train? Go face bots, invite a few friends. First step is actually having friends though. Sour attitudes generally lack those. Aaaaaanyway. We dont need whiners on quake. Happy to see em go
"the true addiction comes from self improvement" I couldn't agree more with this statement. Owning up to the fact that some people frag you because they simply played better and realizing that it's up to you to get to that level is what I truly love about gaming. Quake has this in spades.
When I started playing Unreal Tournament at the beginning of 2000, I was getting owned so freaking hard. But the reward lied in the desire of getting better, and that practicing would pay off. Every day I would practice, come in contact with people willing to help me get better, and after a while, I could participate in high-level competitive games. I still, even when I'm 33 now, look back at that time with a great sense of fulfillment. Something I've never really experienced in modern shooters, with the exception of beating Doom Eternal on Ultra Nightmare. Apart from the trophy culture, I would also add another factor that has made the online-gaming community way less enjoyable. It's the watering down of intelligent people online. It used to be just nerds talking to each other through Mirc and Teamspeak, being collectively amazed by the fact they could play videogames over the internet. Now, most of the lobbies are filled with children who barely learned to read and think it's cool to troll as much as possible (I'm generalizing off course). I do really miss the days that 90% of the people you met online were decent, approachable human beings.
Try speedrunning FPS games at a high level. It is a good reason to play old games (and new games) with a fresh approach, meet new people and further develop your knowledge of how things work in games etc. However, there are idiots as well in those communities, just not as many.
I am now 35 years old, I played UT 2004 so good as every day from 2005 to 2008 i was addicted to this game was also in a CTF clan my kids dont even know this game . This game was unbelievably great , this cannot be described if you have not experienced how wonderful this was .
I played this new Quake last week and I got addicted for 3 days in a row, but I had to delete it because I was hooked as hell. I was feeling good and having fun in this game, even being bad and losing every single game. No online game in the last years, like TF2, CSGO, Overwatch and CoD, got me having fun even when losing. Losing in Quake Champions just feels good, hahah.
same,was missing modes where everyone had same health,armor etc cap so your skill trully showed not getting a cheap win via pressing an Active Skill button
@@MILDMONSTER1234 As someone who enjoys afps and fighting games I've always found this kind of weird honestly. personally I find fighting games to have a way higher barrier to entry than afps. I learned how to strafe jump and shoot competently in a few months but I still drop my combos in guilty gear all the time. Also afps is a subgenre attached to a much more mainstream genre than fighting games so you'd figure there'd be way more runoff but there just isn't.
Have you heard of battle royale games? 1 of 100 people win per match idk what your talking about and this comment section is full of boomers talking nonsense
You're absolutely right. Watching yourself get better is so satifying in this game. This is my first Quake, and I'm not gonna lie, I did uninstall it more than once. But now, 4 years later, things that were so hard, like movement and timing and weapon selection for the right battles is all second nature and things I barely have to think about. No better feeling than topping a leaderboard in Quake Champions, no other game gives me that rush.
I think this is normal and happens a lot, I've definitely had similar moments... but what draws you back is the challenge, and it's true! Because when you win, it feels so much better
Honestly, this advice can be applied to everything. Quake is for sure a game is similar to a military boot camp, you'd get destroyed early, but after developing the mechanical skills, gamesense, and smarts. You're set for any other fps games.
I just started and there's another thing that's different from modern FPS games--you can't just spawn and rush into combat. You need to collect weapons and armor before engaging which gives the impression of people being able to 1 shot you, because they can, because you've got half the effective HP they do. Made the first game frustrating. Made the next ones much better once I noticed that. The game is amazing.
So a friend of mine plays Overwatch competitively; One of the guys he works with is top 500 in the world on it and he told us that alot of top end Overwatch players play Quake on the side for the exact reasons you state in this video; Companies dont allow for self improvement anymore when MMR is built in a way that as soon as you start looking like youre going to quit they give you an easy win game and its painfully obvious when the algorithm does that at high ends (When a Diamond tier gets placed against platinum). Awesome vid man keep up the great work.
Just like BJJ is not for everyone, just like weight lifting is not for everyone, Quake is not for everyone. Why? Because it is hard, it requires putting in the effort, and you have to take your time with it. And yah, once you get it, it is the most rewarding FPS out there. I would say the game is really close to perfection, however, as much as I love the gameplay, the game could be better from a technical point of view: we could have better loading times and what not. And yah, I have been playing since the first beta. I was struggling to not hit last place in every match. Took my time with it, and now I am usually nr.1 or in the top 3 in TDM and DM. I have also recently started getting into duels, because if I want to get better, then I need to play duel. Anyways, great points and great video. Its sad that this game is not bigger, but at the same time fuck it, maybe amazing shit should not be for everybody.
I love this game and play it daily ... have been for 3 years now.. thing is I live in Syria and my ping is a nightmare.. thats why no one plays the game here.. maybe if it had a Lan mode people here would play it more
You can create your own server just like back in the day. You need to add your friends in Quake instead of Steam and click on Custom game and invite them
QC just needs a proper story driven tutorial, that would visually and simply, go over all the mechanics and ease you in. It needs more varied and less intense game modes where newcomers can learn the mechanics and have fun before jumping into duels, maybe some generic alien cannon fodder NPC thingy to fill in for some casual practice( like Doom's weak demons or somt). It would give new players a good sense of accomplishment in defeating those, while gaining achievements in random funny quests which teach you how to play. Next, very important imo, some short singleplayer narrative to tie the characters and places together, and on the marketing level, a few short backstory lore videos for the characters to explain their past and give them depth. Similar to how LoL promotes characters. Some kind of dynamic events tied to the particular maps would be very cool too in giving them a sense of life and happening. It can be anything, like that giant eye in the Ruins of Sarnath, but bigger and more impactful to the strategy development on the map. If they focused on these, I am pretty sure the game would fly.
Saw this topic about the tutorial in the Discord and syncerror basically said they LOST more players after the tutorial they used to have because it wasn't indicative of the gameplay that follows. Apparently without the tutorial they'd have more success with player retention. Absolutely backwards of what I'd expect, but interesting.
Whenever I watch my friend play Battlefield 1, I roll my eyes whenever he gets bombed from a plane he couldn't have possibly avoided or having to deal with juggernauts with way too much health. I'm proud to be a Quake player.
I mean you should always be checking the air for them and with the juggernauts there loud slow bad at longer ranges and can get one shotted by bayonet charges and back stabs (I think it's a one shot for back stabs)
@@gmjammin4367 The Battlefield community is half-retarded. If any FPS community is elitist, it's niche ones like this, because you have half hardcore elitists that harp about the new generation being all casuals, and half people who genuinely want more people to play their game.
@@sampleentry5253 yeah I ran into a guy yesterday blabbering about how he'd been playing the game for 30 years. Got mad at me for 'meta-abusing' by using the rocket launcher and grabbing red armor. This community seriously needs new blood as these people keep others from entering. But I do have to say that Battlefield players are pretty elitist too, its any fps game lmao
Even worse, games like fortnite have built in "preserve fun" mechanics like completely RNG weapon spread and recoil, weapon drops and locations and power ups, they made the absolutely lowest skill bar requirements to make sure eveyone is allowed a chance no matter how utterly incompetent they are, so much so that the only skilled players in the game were forced to abuse the built-in defensive building mechanic to salvage the game from mediocrity and attempt to give it any depth, studying complex and autistic build strings for hours because there is nothing else to the game on a fundamental level. I would rather get fragged by pros for 200 hours than stay in a practice mode room bulding by myself for 200 hours, If I want to build I'll do it so peacefully in minecraft to relax, not in a competitive shooter with no depth other than spawning fort knox around you whenever they sneeze in your direction.
@@poolessbumhole I would not bother with these people, they either got rekt in other games or never played them so that means they are random and bad lmaoxD
I don't think that it's a result of people's tastes changing, but rather the fact that gaming is becoming more mainstream, and such the playerbase is minuscule in comparison to other franchises that arent nearly as difficult to get into.
@@0d1nnquake14 idk how I missed this reply. Gaming has become a wonderfully social activity. The reason so many people play Fortnite, Minecraft, Warzone, etc. is because it's a great way to socialize and bond with people you care about. Most people really don't care about winning that much, and the ones who do either don't know what quake even is, or they don't like the fact that they can't blame bad luck when they get clapped so they stick to casual games. It takes a type of person to have the patience for quake.
Quake is like plugging in to matrix, it's not about your strength or speed, it's about your mind. How strong is your mind. I remember Morpheus' words when he trains Neo in kungfu fight, "is that air you think you're breathing?" Sometimes I still can pull out competitive fight in games like quake if I force myself, but it will gets tiring pretty fast. Back in my teenage I could play quake 1, 2, 3 deathmatch all night long (they used to called it the killing jar). Time has change though, my physical is not as strong as in 1997 and I have a better use of my physical resource.
I wanna add a few ideas to your vid because you're absolutely correct. In my eyes there's been a huge shift in the shooter genre w/ lootcrates and unlocks and everything and its stemming from hijacking the brain's dopamine systems, and rewarding game time over effort and skill development (that said: there are no casuals that finish Dark Souls) Unfortunately, the triple A title devs have realised that the REAL game is the damned unlockables. Gameplay is good enough so you don't quit, but the progression systems are made so you keep playing thanks to those dopamine hits... and then you pay for next month's DLC. As you've said, Quake is almost exclusively about the intrinsic rewards of your sub-skills eg. stafe jumps, rocket jumps, rocket-rail combos etc. but average gamers just aren't willing to slog through the pain and struggle when there's something that provides all the rewards with little struggle. Here's the kicker though: everyone who I introduced to Quake who hated it and couldn't see it's genius NEVER played any competitive sport seriously, or, they have never taken their careers seriously. Or in other words, they coast through life and have never experienced needing to put extensive effort and struggle into something, they've always just done "good enough" and were never A-grade employees. I don't play any video games anymore, I've swapped gaming for boxing but I still have a soft spot for Quake because there are so many parallels. When you're losing in a duel/sparring session you look like a fking idiot, even if the other guy is only a bit better but has taken initiative. But again though, you power through it and develop those skillsets. Only the best get trophies, for everyone else, you get your ass beaten over and over and over and over, and your self esteem takes a beating too, but you toughen up and push through it which builds your character and your wisdom - some essential traits for life that so many gamers and people in general lack these days
game dont hit, gamers do :D but quake apparently needs some kind of mm outside of ranked. twas very painful to lose slipgate 10 in a row on event. and u cant even see ur skill growth if enemy is much stronger every game.
@@elecman748 "20 yr skill gap" is overrated imo. You'll be competitive with anybody after 3k hours, and you'll start to realize what your true potential is/can be. I play a game from the mid 2000s with a niche mode that has its own little community that still plays it and some of these 20 year vets aren't spectacular players. That being said, you can't just ask these guys who've been playing since the 2000s to stop because it makes a new player feel overwhelmed. This is the nature of games that require skill.
@@AguyR1401 Well, that's the problem with arena shooters, a game dev can't ask the veterans to stop pub stomping on the servers, and the veterans just can't stop "being good" lol. Also, nobody with some self-esteem will play a multiplayer game for more than 5 hours when they are getting destroyed, I was one of those, loved the campaign (completed every single Quake game on nightmare) but I couldn't tolerate nor enjoy the skill gap.
Great video - been playing Quake multiplayer since '99 - and it has ruined me from anything else that isn't as fast and intense - I cannot play COD, it just feels way too slow and limiting, plus no rocket jumps - Unreal Tournament was always pretty good, but Quake, Quake 3, Quake Live and now Quake Champions have always been the best multiplayer FPS out there - totally subbing to this channel, and looking forward to some more great Quake videos like this!
You make a lot of valid points, especially when talking about cod, but there are a lot of hard fps out there, games that require time and effort not to suck at. Games like csgo and valorant have very specific movemen mechanics, and r6 siege just has a ton of different things you have to know just to understand whats happening at any given time. I feel the real reason quake isnt as popular is just about trends and genres, tactical team shooters and battle royale is whats being played nowadays.
CS has had it's skill ceiling lowered every new edition, it's still above CoD but not by a whole lot unless you are playing at a competitive level. R6 Siege rewards all the crappy behaviors of campers on Call of Duty. Abusing sight lines, crouch walking, aim walking, abusing the netcode for corners/headglitches, corner camping, just no.
@@eclipsegst9419 Not everything is mechanical skill too there is something called understanding the maps, knowing which headglitches are the best which corners you can get the most camping out of, not everything is go in brrrr I kill. Gone are the days where you only rely on mechanical outplay without using your brain to actually plan it out.
@@eclipsegst9419 if you're winning the game by choosing the best spots, that's called playing enough to understand where the best spots are, don't tell me the best players don't know where a noob will try to camp them out? It's like a csgo pro vs a camper he'll know every spot on the map where the guy can camp. Isn't that called skill where you played enough so u know all the map positions? If I win by camping I camp, if I win by rushing I rush it's doing what is best in that situation that's called understanding the game and you're telling me that's not a skill that you need to learn to play any specific game? Nowadays ppl like games with more abilities, it's a different skill set altogether. Understanding ability cooldowns, ultimate tracking, which spot you should not stand at that gives your opponent an advantage with their abilities etc. it's totally different
@@103260A It's not hard to learn where the spawns are on a map, or what routes people run. This is a necessary basic skill for any FPS and being able to do it is nothing special. People who out maneuver and out aim their enemy are more skilled than those who hide behind crates ADS'd like a coward. Any child can do that. It isn't a "mental skill bro" knowing spawns is FPS 101. Camping is cowardice.
it all comes down to the old hardcore gamer vs casual gamer debate. as gaming became less of a niche nerdy hobby, a whole new market of casual gamers has appeared, and companies had simply adapted to the needs of a gamer who maybe only plays on the weekends, or plays casually while hanging out with friends. it doesn't make sense for these games to have a high skill ceiling. its not that people got soft or lazy, the hardcore gamers are still there, its the market has changed and the really devoted gamers are relatively a minority of gamere now. an average gamer just isn't interested in that, and you cant really force them to be. considering your preamble about subjectivity of games, this shouldn't really be seen as an issue, just as a sign of a different era of gaming market
Well said. I remember when COD also involved skill to be played. COD2 was my foundation for Quake Live and it was a beautiful one way transition. It is truly addicting. I don't play online anymore but I speedrun games which has a special element to it as well.
This touches on one of the biggest problems in modern gaming that no one really seems to be talking about. You said the magic word "perseverance". Lack of perseverance is exactly why games that are fun and rewarding for actual effort and know how get shit on by the masses. They wander into these pvp lobbies, expecting to carry their team, then they play terribly, blame their team, throw a tantrum as they AFK or leave the match altogether. Without perseverance, gamer don't know how to lose, don't know how to get better, don't know how to get that addicting experience of continual self-improvement and challenge. Sincerely, thank you for making this video!
I love this video. You speak volumes of truth here. My introduction to Quake was Quake 3 Arena way back way back. I even went as far as downloading lots of mods for that game. Great times! I started Quake Champions last week and I absolutely love it. My only issue is that I'd have loved to see more of the OG Quake 3 Arena champions, Xaero, Sarge, etc. Quake Champions is a fun game. thanks for taking the time to make this video. Imma subscribe!
This is a great video hits the nail on the head unfortunately, I have recently got into quake champions as an ex quake 3 devotee & Im loving it, I havnt had a problem getting games within a minute or so (although Im only playing deathmatch) its been difficult getting back into it after so long but as you said its a challenge to improve started at the bottom been moving up Im now in the top half of most matches & have even won a couple. Perseverance pays off...
@@NinjaCoderxda I haven't played on the Super server though. But, talking of Vihmu, we don't have 8 v 8 lol. Rarely we do get 7 v 7. Mostly it's 3 v 3 or 4 v 4 though. Not many casuals come there as most people there are really serious about the games tbh.
This went from “is quake champions any good?” To “call of duty is garbage and no other shooter is as good as this and you’re wrong if you disagree” real fast.
What I realized after switching off of games like COD and switching from aim assisted controller to MnK as an input is that I love the process of going from being bad at something to being good at something. A game in which I can top the leaderboards after a day or two of playing is not a game I want to play. If it doesn't kick me on my ass and punish my bad habits, I'm not learning a new skill. For me winning isn't what is fun about videogames; what is fun about videogames for me is when I realize "hey, I have improved. I wouldn't have been able to do that in this game 2 months ago."
League of Legends, CSGO, and Rocket League are all games that are incredibly difficult at a higher level, yet they are still massively popular. These games require patience and practice just like Quake so certainly being difficult isn't the only reason Quake is niche, there's plenty of competitive gamers addicted to self improvement. I think a big reason Quake is unpopular is that the main competitive mode is duel, 1v1 games aren't popular anymore, look how niche StarCraft and fighting games are nowadays, people want teammates and coordinated plays! Notice how the games I first mentioned are team games. I love Quake but competitively it is designed around 1v1 and that just isn't popular anymore and I'm not sure if it ever will be.
they just have to remake quakeworld tdm 4v4 and it will be good. quake just has too many team modes to unite the community. i agree that duel isn't very appealing for properbly most of the players
It isn't as popular because it's way harder and more punishing for mistakes. You can be snowballed in a duel due to one error, while in team modes your mistakes can be mitigated by your team mates. So it's connected to the theme of this video.
I got back into QC around the end of January this year. Did my Duel placement matches, started around 1200 and got up to 1500 (which I'm sure is through a bit of luck). It's actually amazing that I can get balanced Duels going within a minute or two, even after midnight. But I suspect it's because Europe has a pretty dedicated group of people playing, especially in the East. But I think what partly put off the casual audience from playing is that the other modes are just not that fun to play at all, the last time I played anything other than Duel was probably around 2018. DM crams 8 people into maps, sometimes maps made for 2, and it's utter chaos. Not in the fun way either. It reminds me of those Call of Duty games in Shipment, with 16 people running around. Or instant-respawn TF2 on 2Fort, with 16 players on each team. Really silly stuff that gets dull quick, and is not what the game was designed around IMO. Quake isn't even particularly hard, you can get basic strafe jumping down in your first 10 minutes. If it wasn't for Duel I would never play anything except fighting games, because hardly any FPS game has that solo 1-vs-1 experience. I can't even think of many other modern FPS game that doesn't require you to be playing with a team, and playing most of these games with randoms is awful.
Exactly how I felt. Deathmatch is fun yeah but the amount of times a fucking random person materializes out of nowhere and screws over an ongoing firefight is actually absurd
This i why i love Quake. At first i got absolutely destroyed, But for some reason i still loved it. Even when i raged and thought of throwing my monitor into the wall, i still wanted to play another game. i spent alot of time in watching tutorials on strafe-jumping, then practicing in custom, now it's like second nature. I keep improving my game, trying hard with item-timings atm, and Quake just keeps getting even better. Pure addiction!
You've got it totally backwards. Quake Champions failed because it took the game renowned for being a test of pure mechanical skill and filled it with blatantly overpowered no skill character abilities that are more often the determiner of fights than player skill. Snore-lag's poison is impossible to miss, even if you do someone else can run over it afterwards and still get hit, deals massive damage over time, provides tracking abilities, area denial, an easy get off me button in a bad spot, and an easy initiator in a good spot. Not to mention she has easy to use source style strafing, providing her more mobility than many characters, WHILE STILL HAVING MORE HEALTH. Death Knight is in the same boat, but with less utility and more way more damage. Oh and if you pick BJ you just get to be twice as good as your opponent by pressing one button. Then they had to add FUCKING MINI SENTRIES. What a joke. So much skill in dropping a literal aimbot turret that can control a whole room, and for some ungodly reason also gets quad when you do. And you think COD is bad lol.
then learn how to overcome it, simple as that and besides, in the end of the day, its just a video game so you have nothing to lose and still have good time, sure it has some flaw but if you know how to manage it, i dont find it an issue to it, and tell me if you can, he has said some pros and cons about the game. if you really dont care at all, up to you
I feel like Clan Arena (and Rocket Arena, going back to Q2/Q3) would be the primary driver for a healthy player base because of the exact reasons you mentioned - it’s the quickest way for new players to start fragging. You can have beginner servers full of CA players, and with proper ELO filtering, they will have a blast. I got into Quake 2 via RA2, and subsequent versions were my primary game mode for like 10+ years. Quake Champions not having the current duel platform and not having Clan Arena, at launch, is what made it DOA. (The round system was a good attempt to level the playing field for new players, but it also broke up the action too much and didn’t actually end up leveling the playing field.) In the old days, at any given time of the day there were hundreds of Rocket/Clan Arena players playing. It was a guaranteed game if you couldn’t find anything else, and it was frankly more fun than traditional deathmatch.
The thing is though you are going to get wrecked but when you finally get to the point where you beat the guy that has been wrecking you for 3 months it is going to be massively satisfying.
honestly. maybe not all. team fortress 2 is only quake based game everyone played. i mean u guys didnt realise that soldier is literally just quake guy especially if he use original?
A no means no, you won't be midair-ing people with Rockets today, or tomorrow, or next week, or even in a month. Quake in it's arena form is the Dark Souls of Quake. Get good, baby. You gotta keep practicing like daddy Fatal1ty once said.
@@TheGudStuffs Q4 doesnt really have an alternative but the game was shit in the beginning and not a lot of pros even tried to learn the movement really. Its a subculture with about 70 people playing from time to time and like 15 poeple who are actually good and play. Ithink with Sanchez´s video on Aimer7 and Serious they got more attention but in the end i dont know if there will be something to replace it soon
Its so absurd because it was the huge skill gap that made the game so much more appealing ... when i started gaming in 2003 with unreal tournament and quake. It was already 4-6 years to late at this point and You basically had these gods dominating everybody and you wanted to learn and be just like them. i blame it on how weaker and weaker each generations get
Agreed! I'm a Quaker that won 3 times the title of the Best Call of Duty mod of the world with Call of Duty Frontlines. Now I'm working on Call of Duty Rio. Check gameplays on my channel if you wish to play Call of Duty but with a great gameplay as Quake. Cheers
Honestly i don't see why this game isn't more popular, and slow games like battle royale are. Impatience has always been the stereotype of the modern generation. So it's odd to see games where you have to wait in lobbies, or just run run run looking for someone to shoot at for such long amounts of time, be so popular.
Quake has a special nostalgic attachment for me, I still like it to an extent (had many fun rounds with friends back when Q3 arena was a thing) but have to add a point there, not very noob friendly lol. I mostly play single player and almost never competitive games with barely any time to spare these days to practice or develop my aim and work on skills on a grind. No offence but I only saw a comparision with Call of Duty vs QC in this video but games like PUBG, Dota 2 and CSGO are pretty famous needing some initial skill, luck and has a toxic community much like quake. My only issue with Quake these days is that none of my old friends play it anymore and the community itself is so full of elitists the environment is just too toxic to bother putting any effort at all. Just my opinion. Still have to agree tho, getting a luck shot on someone has an adrenaline rush like no other. Arena FPS should be more focused to players willing to put the time into them
Try Open Arena (Free Q3 clone) if you loved Q3. Community is small but diverse, active and welcoming. It has a wide spectrum of players from top to bottom, so rarely you meet elitists or assholes. Your name sounds 🇮🇳, hope to see more Indians play🙂
I disagree with the video. For majority of cases people dont say "Quake is bad" for the reasons author mentions, they just say "Its too hard" and they dont bother playing it. Perhaps its easier to illustrate this with chess as an example. Chess is extremely competitive game with nearly infinite skill cap. Chess is painful for beginner and not very rewarding- you get little to none adrenaline and/or dopamine rush. Yet chess is largely respected by gamers, people dont call it a "bad game" for being so hard. Yet, there are not so many people choosing to dedicate their time and energy to master it. I think problem with Quake has more to do with its competition in gaming industry. "CounterStrike" completely dominates competitive shooter genre. Comparing "Quake" and "CallOfDuty" in my opinion is apples and oranges, because "CallOfDuty" player base is not a target audience for Quake. "CallOfDuty" players are looking mostly for casual fun.
Just to throw it out there, CSGO has a fish out of water style first impression two, however it managed to gain a much larger following without dumbing down the raw skill aspect. I'm a die hard Quake fan (literally owned a copy of the demo before q1 came out), got my q2 cd on day one, made mods for quake 3, and it sucks to see the game forgotten. Being honest though, the problem is deeper than just how people perceive the learning curve. A lot of people just assume Quake is a multiplayer game without attributing any link to what originally made quake great (the multiplayer was always the icing on the cake not the base). A majority of the mechanics we see in the modern Doom series now were actually Quake mechanics. Hub worlds, ability power up's, graphics, even some of the visual aesthetics has been jammed into Doom to help that franchise. In a way people don't care about Quake, because they get everything they'd want elsewhere. Worse the eSports side of Quake is boring. I was a big fan of Rapha for years, but the entire scene may as well not exist any more, as it usually comes down to him or a select few who no-life the arena year after year getting to the finals. It's like watching snooker at an old mans club. For the skill yea there is some hook, but why watch two old farts duke it out, when Overwatch League or Valorant is re-inventing FPS eSports season after season. I pray ID put out a single player Quake franchise game this year, because maybe it'll do for Quake what Apex did for Titanfall and show a different perspective that people are actually interested in.
So we're gonna get mad that rapha is the king of the hill? thats terrible logic. This is just another reason why team games and more RNG based games like battle royale are popular, because the element of randomness is big enough to where even a first-day-gaming Grandma could win a game against a guy with 1000 hours. ANd how come in terms of Quake and Rapha it's "no-life arena players" but the people that do the same thing in CS:GO and such, it's cool? However, a single player Quake reboot would be cool, and I also agree with you that it could revitalize the game in general.
The good old days mplayer gamespy teamspeak. All those amazing mods runes and action were my favs. Urban terror was so amazing. 56k modem for that great 180-200 ping HPB was great
I think it's pretty important to mention that duel mode in quake is where the serious amount of skill is needed. Probably many people get into tdms or watch videos of tdms for QC and think it's a random game where you have little control. Duels are an incredibly unique experience in fps
Pubs and duels are two totally different worlds. However you can apply duel technique to pub games. If you're able to hold control (or at least timing) of the major items, you're heavily advantaged over the other players who are bouncing around without thinking about anything
There is simply no better balance of pure skill, strategy, timing and reflexes in the gaming space ever. Quake Champions is the truest test of a gamer.
hugo martin gave an explanation for id software games the best; " 'hey it doesnt matter if you come last we will give everyone 1st place' no, real life doesnt work that way, there are winners and there are the people that lose" a bit brutal but its the truth, recently re-installed quake champions, gotta say im loving it, didnt like it at first but now its something im enjoying.
"Can a new player install the game and start fragging people in 5 minutes, topping the leaderboards." ==> They can't do that in Team Fortress 2, Overwatch, or CSGO either. Also, not everyone can get a positive KDR in Call of Duty; since every kill rests on the death of someone else. Usually 12-year olds. Despite this, *THEY KEEP PLAYING THOSE GAMES*. I won't deny that Quake's gameplay and mindset are different, but this constant elitism on the part of the Quake community means we keep producing takes which miss why modern gamers really don't like Quake Champions (and we do) IMO. Maybe Call of Duty is like this, but we must also ask - why can't Quake be at least like Team Fortress 2? Or CSGO? For the record, I'm middling on a game like Quake champions - vaguely positive KDR at best. However, last time I tried a game like Battlefield, I got stomped into the ground. (Admittedly, I never tried very hard there.) Some of CSGO's more insanely skilled players legitimately learned their skills in Call of Duty - mostly in the being a cheeky bastard and reacting ludicrously quick department. There's more than just 'Quake is more skilled' IMO; there's even more than 'Quake is more skilled on average and also very differently skilled'. Taking responsibility for one's skills; that rush of success; I get it too in Team Fortress 2, or CSGO, or Titanfall 2. This might be the Quake mindset following me, you can say, rather than those games being as much about that as Quake is, but I got this mindset first from Team Fortress 2, or Mario Kart Wii (not entirely sure that). Low hanging fruit, perhaps, since TF2 is a direct child of Quake, sure, but the point stands that modern gamers aren't some stereotyped Call of Duty child, not when the likes of CSGO exist. "If you're tired of being treated like that - " Maybe they'll give Overwatch or CSGO a try. As they tend to do. Therein lies the problem; there's plenty of people out there playing fair and highly competitive games out there, none of which are named Quake. We can totally try to snipe those looking for skill from the Call of Duty community, but, at some point, if you want to speak about modern gamers, you have to confront the reality that CSGO, TF2, and Overwatch exist.
I really liked your comment and your point here. I think - and that's just a loose assumption - the biggest problem is that Quake became irrelevant and stagnated for far too long in the overall gaming scene. While the games you mentioned were always releasing new versions, getting new players and expanding to get more and more new players, Quake remained sit at Q3A. Quake 4 wasn't anything to write home about and Enemy Territory: Quake Wars wasn't really Quake as people knew at the peak of it's popularity. By the likes of 2010, strong contenders such as CoD, BF, Halo, CS:GO and Team Fortress were already rooted as the "go to" games for online experience. I have a lot of friends that even back in the last decade remembered Quake and Unreal Tournament fondly, but moved on to the most recent games because these titles were the new thing people were playing. At some point, Quake became a niche and it is still a niche now. It will be a long climb to the spotlight again.
TF2, Overwatch, CS:GO, CoD = all team games. I can be a .5KDR player but as long as I have a 3KDR player on my team, I'm good to go. So my shittiness is offset by the skill of another. In Quake that isn't a thing. If a .5KDR goes against even a 1.5KDR, it's going to be a slaughter. That's the nature of 1v1. Battlefield is a different type of beast, I'd contend that it's a harder-style arcade shooter. I always had a hard time in Battlefield because I can't see anything, haha. (Age is catching up with me!) Quake can't be like TF2 or CS:GO because they aren't the same game. They don't have the same mechanics or the same design philosophy. Quake is a 1v1 duel game. TF2 and CS:GO is a team-oriented shooter. Overwatch is the same thing. Not to mention the RNG of battle royale games, which takes a lot of the control from the player and places it into the algorithm of the game. "I hope I get good weapons at this spot!" instead of "Okay, I need rockets, let's go get rockets." Quake requires you to have great movement, aim, item timing ability, map awareness, and now, champion awareness all at the same time. CS:GO can have special roles, i.e., you could have the sniper, the pistol guy, the rusher, the defender, etc. So players can segregate themselves into what they do best. (Which is cool in it's own right.) Its hard to take 100% absolute responsibility for yourself and easier to play in a team sport, which I think most people are more interested in.
@@0d1nnquake14 The most popular and most commonly played modes of Quake aren't its 1v1 duels. Do you disagree? We have team deathmatch, general insanity deathmatch, capture the flag, and then modes like slipgate and clan area, all of which are distinctly NOT 1v1. All of which are indeed team modes. Despite this, players would much sooner play any other 'team' shooter than touch Quake. Why is that? I don't know about 'good to go' either. Have you ever tried being the .5 KDR player in a 'team' game, like TF2? Or the 0.1 KDR? Maybe it's because I am exactly the type of player who gravitates towards Quake and am not the average, but I've been in that position before and can tell you - whether or not my team wins is basically completely meaningless; all that matters is how I do. This isn't about 'responsibility' or anything either; it's simply because team score stats are far and away, whilst the real experience of getting away with a cheeky move or dying is personal and real. I'd contend that the average player really thinks in a similar manner in Team Fortress 2. For games which actually strongly emphasize the team's victory, like competitive Valorant, yeah sure this isn't the case, but for the average 2fort CTF TF2 player, they're Quake's fanbase... except they're not playing Quake. Speaking of Battlefield - if there's one thing Quake is good with it's readability. I don't get blinded by goddamn god-rays out of nowhere like in TF|2 (Titanfall). Indeed, Quake can't be like TF2 or CSGO. CSGO can't be like TF2; hell, Overwatch really isn't TF2 either. The point isn't to become exactly like those games. It's that those games have exactly the same sort of high-skill competitive focused no-babysitting fanbases as Quake, often with game mechanics damn close to Quake, and yet their players don't touch Quake - and new players prefer those games over Quake. That is what the 'new gamers don't want to take personal responsibility, don't like high skill games' argument completely misses. "Quake requires you to have great movement, aim, item timing ability, map awareness, and now, champion awareness all at the same time." These are skills I learned in Team Fortress 2; all damn well familiar to me when I began playing Quake. This is cheating, since TF2 is Quake's direct child, but the point remains. "CS:GO can have special roles, i.e., you could have the sniper, the pistol guy, the rusher, the defender, etc. So players can segregate themselves into what they do best. (Which is cool in it's own right.)" This is also distinctly untrue of CSGO. Or at least, you overstate the number of roles and how distinct they are tbh. For example, there is no 'the pistol guy'; everyone begins on weak-ass pistols in round one and trades up for better weapons on later rounds unless they're trying to save money; sacrificing their chances of success on a prior round for success on later rounds. Similarly, there are no 'rushers and defenders'; in bomb plant mode everyone is both at once; in hostage rescue an entire team is one or the other, at once. If you want to say that the idiot terrorist who rushes when he should be defending is a rusher (which, well, I'm that guy) - then you'd have to say the same for the quake players who are 'the rushers' for being more aggressive with their plays, versus those who stay back and avoid risk. I would also say that there is no sniper vs rifler in any significant sense, except as mere style again. Most snipers are also going to be damn good riflers. There's vastly more of a difference between any two quake weapons than any two weapons in CSGO TBH. "Its hard to take 100% absolute responsibility for yourself and easier to play in a team sport, which I think most people are more interested in." Sure. The big problem is - Quake, even in its old heyday, was not primarily played as a 1v1. It is balanced for 1v1, but its most played modes are modes like Team Deathmatch and Capture the Flag. That is, I'm this scrub who doesn't want to take 100% personal responsibility. Why do I not play Quake CTF? Why do I not play Clan Arena? Why am I not playing Quake TDM?
Calling NEW gamers, Modern Gamers XD :p well WE who have been here since the very beginning of PC-Gaming, know exactly what is happening, and it is the participation trophy gamers you are talking about XD :p It is in 99.1% of the times, HIT, Run and hide gamestyle that is being used!! pronewarriors and housecampers, they do NOT like games like QUAKE, because that will ONLY get them killed even more XD and that is WHY I LOVE QUAKE, NO BACKSEAT GAMERS have a chance against us!!!
Came from COD and after playing Doom 2016 in 2019, Eternal in 2020, and QC in 2021, I can safely say that I can never go back to that paradigm of gameplay again.
are u fucking crazy? I had 1500 elo in Quake Champions as a complete quake newbie, the reason I stopped playing its EXACTLY what you are describing. Typical Quake rat takes a rail, and runs with it for 5 minutes straight, hits and run to another corner. Its totally playable playstyle in Quake to hit and run, you can run for entire game, getting chiky damage, and never face your opponnent. Camping in certain spots with rocket or lightning gun is also very common.
@@jankowalski734 If you’re opponent runs from you, you control the map. Get the major items to build an over-stack, then trap em. Running can be punished too.
Still remember the days of good ol Unreal Tournament 2004 and Unreal Championship instagib lobbies.....ran into a grp of solid guys that taught my young 13 yr old dumbass how to really play Unreal....good times good times.
I captured Quake III Arena when it was fresh in the early 2000s and it had the exact same feel just like this modern instalment however the difference was that people loved it and it was waaaaaay more popular despite being pretty hard to master. Back than fps games weren't so politically correct or weren't pampering you just like nowadays so we needed to addapt no matter what which sparked ambition when it came to fragging the enemies.
RIght, so all the people who spent the last near complaining about Cold War compressing the skill gap and punishing good players should stop being silly, stop playing CoD, and start playing a game that rewards skill. That isn't subjective.
In my heart, Quake will always be the number one game. I hope that eventually people will wake up and see that it's worth to put in the effort. I do feel though that Quake Live was better at giving new players a decent experience through the division in different tiers. I picked up Quake Live at 2010 after I saw a K1llsen match at the Intel Extreme Masters. I only had limited Quake 3 experience because my friends preferred to play other stupid games and I did not have fast Internet during the Quake 3 days. But as far as I remember Quake Live was a good experience from the start, because there were different Servers for different tiers and as far as I remember, it was always challenging, but never completely frustrating. Picking up Quake Champions with no prior Quake experience seems hard to me (but still worth it).
TBH it applies to arena shooters and some other old school FPS in general. We're talking here about Quake Champions, but it also applies to any UT game or even Half-Life: Deathmatch. It has been like this for more than a decade and not even QC changed it.
Great video, but i have another point of view. You see, other FPS games have this "team" aspect that is really absent in Quake. Sure, it has team modes like team death match, but they don't have the same "work as a team" feeling. Take Overwatch for exemple, it is very successful because it has a very strong team component. And, contrary to what you think, this is "important" not only because it's more fun to play with friends, but mainly because *the players need to blame someone else for their faults* . People don't like to know that they are bad, and Quake makes it very clear. Cod, Overwatch, Fortnite...they can always blame other aspect of the game like "my team sucks", "that guy was camping", etc.
I like team games, not to blame my teammates for losses but because it's a more manageable experience. The chaos of FFA where there's constantly a train-gangbang of people running into your face and coming from behind you is exhausting. In a team game you know there's friendlies around you, behind you and watching other sightlines, even if they do suck their presence is a tripwire. And when the enemy is hitting you from multiple angles it's because you've misplayed or been outplayed, not a fact of life of the game.
I don't agree with this at all. Not every game is like COD. CSGO, Valorant, Apex, there are still competitive games with infinite skill ceilings out there where you have to invest time in to get good, and they still are extremely popular. Yes there is a market for games like COD but there is also a market for games you invest in to get better like CSGO for instance that crosses the generational gap. CSGO has young and old players, is the #1 concurrent players game on steam... Quake Champions isn't popular because its a mediocre game that tried to cash in on the league of legends/overwatch ultimate abilities in every game train. Instead of thinking of a new unique idea to modernize or improve quake, they just tacked on ults and character differences. This pissed off the old base, and didnt really impress new players with its half assed implementation. They also completely dropped mod / map support (staple of quake), and didnt do anything creative with the game. Its just the same modes/maps with characters with slightly tweaked movement and ultimates. The new tribolt gun is lame and barely used. Maybe with Microsoft owning Quake now we will see some effort thrown in to bring it back with some creative new ideas and changes that respect the core of the game but improve on it like what we saw with CSGO over the years...
CS:GO will inherently be more popular because it's not nearly as mechanically difficult-fact-plus there is this little thing called loot crate gambling that a lot of CS:GO players (and kid's with parents credit cards) partake in which generates a lot of revenue for that company. So is it the game that makes money, or the loot crate gambling marketplace? Yes, QC tried something different, but it isn't mediocre. The launch was shaky and the champions needed work. They are in a good place now, but they definitely could have done a better job in the beginning. No argument there. By the way, every single QPL pro I've spoken to personally enjoy the champions, because they were tired of the old Quake formula. Also, the game had servers for non-abilities, but nobody played them. (Go figure.) And I agree that they dropped the ball with mod support and custom servers. I hope that comes back either in a future QC update or a future Quake game.
@@0d1nnquake14 Many Quake players in the past moved to CS. Its at worst at the same level mechanically as Quake with stopping your momentum, aim ability, controlling recoil, etc. Quake also did loot boxes but it wasnt as successful. Loot boxes are not why CSGO is popular, thats ridiculous. It doesnt fit your argument why such a skill based time investment game is so popular so you try to dismiss it. Quake was the only thing back in the day so it was popular. Nowadays its just not as interesting gameplay wise. Teamplay really doesn't have a place in Quake and never did. People dont want to watch boring 1v1s they want team games. More interesting things happen in a team scenario.
Quake OG here from 1999-2006 era. I think we started on Quake II but QIII Arena is when it all really clicked for me. Couldn’t agree with you more about the no-limit aspect of this game. There is nothing holding you back and nothing better than going on an epic run and just routing everyone on the map hahaha
Hey, I met you in a match a few days ago! You were absolutely rocking it. I always had trouble explaining to someone why scummy tactics and OP weapons/equipment/perks do not really make you good at the game, but you nailed it in this video - and that made me understand why I've always loved arena shooters. I grew up playing call of duty, but I matured and started playing arena FPS games. I still enjoy COD very much, and I love the new DMZ, but in games like Quake or UT you really have an even chance - to win, and to learn. God bless Arena FPS.
I'm two years late, but I value your take on the current state of affairs in FPS. I'm new to quake and new to PC gaming having spent my entire life playing console/controller. As a huge Halo fan I always thought Halo had a high skill gap - but then I played quake. I'm currently sitting at about 12 hours playtime QC and I love the game. I appreciate the difficulty, skill gap, steep learning curve. It's evident to me that even with my limited playtime, this game has so much depth. It's a shame as I write this QC is sitting at only 500 player on steam. This is a beautiful game and I appreciate the single dev working on it. I hope Arena FPS can make a comeback and Quake will be on top again. It's also a breath of fresh air that everyone is using mouse and keyboard. As someone who now plays with MnK, even in Halo which has aim "assist" (aimbot), this is a great feeling to be equal to everyone else. People don't miss shots in Halo and this is true even at the lower levels. It is my observation that even pro players actually miss shots in Quake. That's the way it should be. Missing shots is a part of being imperfect HUMANS. Not legal aim "assist." Thank you for the video, your stuff is incredible.
Im playing quake for about 25 years. Every word you sayed is so f***ing true! Its all about practice! Especially arena shooters like quake or ut require so much timing, prediction, aiming and moovement from you, no other shooter genre can keep up. Games like CoD or Battlefield are always extremely easy for me because I'm used to quake. I also think that quake ist extremely difficult for casual CoD gamers
I grew up on the original Quake, initially playing without a mouse in multiplayer and still having the ability to do well on pub servers. Quake at the time was fun in part because everybody sucked. It was an era where we were all learning. The original Quake didn't even have an option in the menus to turn on mouse look if I remember correctly... you had to enable it through the console. I remember one time on MPlayer getting into a private game with a clan member and them showing us how they could jump in the air, spin 180 degrees practically instantly and hit a specific target behind them and I remember us being really amazed by that. Today, that's probably a basic skill in the toolbox of the average player. The skill ceiling for stuff like this has gotten so high that it's no longer any fun at all for most people to play except for the hardcore crowd, and the people that are willing to get their asses kicked for over 1000+ hours trying to learn the game to get to that point. Arena shooters are completely dead to me for this reason. Bless the people that love it, but it's no longer my scene. I came from a scene where people weren't chugging 4 energy drinks a day and spending 18 hours a day 7 days a week playing something like this to "get gud" at it. This kind of thing now is like trying to go to the schoolyard basketball court to play ball and every time you go, NBA players are there to smoke you before you can even dribble the ball twice or take a step to do anything. For people in love with the game of basketball, that's a motivator to dedicate your life to getting better at it. For people that casually like basketball, that's a "yeah forget this bullshit" and they never show up again.
Here's my 2 cents because you have a slight prejudice against people who don't enjoy quake like you so I'm going to voice the opposite perspective and hopefully you understand it. CoD is forgiving compared to most shooters sure but you definitely get rewarded for having skill, that aspect is there to a certain degree albeit not much at all compared to quake. It's just not what the game is about , and casual players are who its for. Why are you acting like CoD is the only shooter besides this? Why pick the most casual shooter on the planet and the most skill based shooter and compare them? It doesn't help prove the point, really. You always say quake and "other games" like its just that special and it isn't. There's a lot of other popular shooters that are highly competetive: CSGO, Valorant, Apex. Wouldn't people playing the game for the first time and losing games be fixed with a matchmaking system like every other game uses? It's not very fun to get shat on for 2 weeks so yeah a casual gamer is just gonna quit obviously, no one should be surprised at that. Your gripes are aimed at casual players existing. And logical people who get beat all the time in a video game they're new to in their leisure time just quit, not because they think the game is bad, they think "I don't want to spend the effort to get good at this and even then just maybe enjoy it when I can just play CoD and enjoy it. Immediate gratification is what most people go for, and why wouldn't they? It's not all about skill or who's the best to some people. And no, skill based matchmaking systems do not hold you back at all. There have been studies that show that you improve the most when you play against someone SLIGHTLY better than you. Not getting shit stomped in a pub match by some neckbeard who's in his moms basement. Activision is not robbing anyone of that hardcore experience. Consumers are choosing and they choose CoD. If a game is truly hardcore then it makes 100 percent sense that few people play it. An unforgiving hardcore game that everyone plays? That doesn't exist so Quake players should be happy that few people play it because Quake being so hardcore is a majority of what quake players have to say about the game. I'd just like to say, it's just a different perspective. I'm sure you were aware of all of this before making this video, I just wish you would've have voiced it more. And I've played quake live and quake champions and they were fun :). It's just hard getting friends into it, understandably.
1) COD requires no skill. It used to, but those game mechanics have been completely rubbed from the game. Just listen to XclusiveAce talk about how unfulfilling and unrewarding multiplayer is now. 2) COD is one of the most played and well known games, that's why I picked it. CS:GO is fine. Valorant is popular? That's cute. Apex is an RNG battle royale game. Not the same. 3) You get shit on in Quake because the game itself is hard to play. The basic mechanics are totally different than any other game on the market, so it doesn't matter. New players have a learning curve and it has nothing to do with the players playing the game. 4) My gripes are not aimed at casual players existing. My gripes are aimed at companies milking players for every dollar and cent they can get instead of actually providing a gaming experience that is rewarding and fulfilling. (Go back to point #1.) COD is one of the worst case examples of this, hence my constant reference to COD. 5) COD doesn't have SBMM. COD has DDA, which literally has been proven to compress the skill gap. This means that actual talent, skill, and growth is IMPOSSIBLE at the game, because you will be held back by the actual algorithm to ensure you get as close to a 1KDR as they can manage. This is not old news, nor is it conspiracy theory. It's a real-life, bonafide Activation patent. Use Google. It absolutely robs great players of a great experience, because the game dynamically stops them from having fun. Again-back to point #1 with even the biggest COD-lover XclusiveAce having to admit the games "SBMM" is not fun, nor is COD challenging. 6) SBMM exists in QC and it works as you described-you get put in with slightly better players. However, this is not what COD does. 7) Immediate gratification has been created in gamers by companies to make money. I remember the days of the 90s with hard-as-shit games. You either figured it out or you didn't. Somehow we had the patience back then to get our asses kicked more and stick it out. Admittedly, kids don't want to lose anymore, they want to pay-to-win or pay-to-feel-like-they-are-good. This speaks more to a bigger problem with the emotional/mental fortitude of people these days... however, it's still pretty messed up how companies use this to make billions of dollars off of people. 8) Consumers do choose to play COD-they absolutely choose for the right to pay ridiculous prices for a broken game, with 1/3rd of the content that COD used to launch with 10 years ago, and then complain about it for an entire year cycle until the next COD game comes out where they do it again. Absolutely asinine. 9) I voiced my opinion as I wanted to. I'm tired of COD games, I'm tired of the "instant gratification" culture, I'm tired of games that literally fuck me because of their algorithms. I want to win or lose based on MY decisions and MY performance-not because of a scorestreak that somebody just waited to get for 3 minutes and then the DDA in COD decided to screw with my aim, my ping, and my health. That's bullshit. 10) Quake is an extremely fun game, and you said it yourself: it's hard to get friends to play because they won't immediately be great at it......... because games like COD have conditioned them to expect that.
@@0d1nnquake14 To say CoD is no skill is so dumb man. Low skill yes but bro you have to fkn aim to kill lmao. Valorant is super popular. Go check twitch viewers. Apex is kinda rng yeah but a good player with white armor is still gonna dumpster a bad one with purple. I mean idk your points are just too extreme. Just be realistic and understanding for a second and stop going full boomer. And yes, Modern Warfare uses SBMM. You don't even know what your talking about. The old CoDs were great though. In the end, being a quake fan doesnt make other people dumb or wrong. They just see it differently. Just enjoy it and be happy. No need to say anything against CoD players as long as you understand their perspective. I get what you mean that a challenging game is fun, but you don't need to go elitist mode. This negative talk towards the people who don't play quake is just gatekeeping them out of wanting to play it cuz there is a bunch of closed minded boomers (not you) telling them theyre not good enough instead of actually communicating nicely that the enjoyment of the game comes from mastery and challenge
Quake/AFPS players are still wasting their time figuring out why people don't play it. You don't need a video or any theory as to why....this genre is simply archaic. For the general population, there are much better FPS games to play and AFPS happens to not be on that list. I also see people parroting each other saying something like "new generation everyone is a winner" etc. what do you mean? Games like Overwatch and CS:GO are extremely popular and its clear cut who is and is not winning in ranked at least....what are you on about?
Archaic? You mean like Counter-Strike, a game that has had zero major game changes since .... the beginning? Are you dumb or something? Overwatch is boring, CS:GO is boring. It's popular because they are team games that are easy for casual players to play. What are you on about?
Counter-Strike can be considered a worn and tested formula...but the big difference here is it has stuck. Though, CS has actually gone through quite a bit of modernization compared to quake (Q1-QL). CS:GO is pretty much a testimate to how to PROPERLY update a formula to make it fresh again. Quake Champions, to its credit, did make an attempt but really fell face flat. Why? Because the game is just not good. Period. They did not appeal to a lot of veteran fans or new fans...its in a limbo of mediocrity. You want to play a good hero shooter? TF2/OW You want to play a good AFPS? Quake Live. QC does not mark either of these categories well. You can dislike OW/CS:GO and its completely fair to call them boring. Also, yes, the team formula is apart of the reason that the world decided them>quake. Quake simply does not have good team modes compared to popular games today which optimize team modes to the fullest. Now onto the biggest point you guys try to make. The popular games are only popular because they take no skill and quake is not popular because it is beyond other games in skill. False. Like...really? How long do you think it takes for an average fps player to get the hang of quake? From my experience between 1-40 hours is what basically what it takes to become quake literate. It's a simple game: Simple movement, simple weapon play, simple maps....its the baseline that online FPS games have been building on since 99....on top of that most people who play quake, just like any other game, are not even good enough to really contribute enough of a factor that makes the game hard for new players. If you want to look at the top of the food chain (professionals), it becomes more obvious that games have gotten more complex as they have come. You don't believe me? ( ruclips.net/video/LM3sS4WSSKQ/видео.html ) This is mainly on aiming mechanics but really also applies to movement and the games in general as well. So...what are YOU on about? I don't know if this is an ego issue or you are simply proud to be ignorant. I love area FPS games, I love Quake, I love UT, I love Goldeneye. They are not ever coming back to world scale popularity...neither are they going to die completely. It's a niche. Putting out videos like this is meaningless and provides no unique insight. You don't need to theory craft to realize why quake titles get sub 1000 players daily. Making up reasons that imply other games are casual and no skill...I don't get it. I played almost all the games I have invested time into at a pretty high level, it just makes it obvious when people complain or argue about skill caps in games that they don't comprehend games at a high level at all. This whole idea of other games are easy and bad and quake is not popular because its too hard dont even play high level quake and just jump on the bandwagon to justify yourself. Most of you are not even GOOD at quake xD What quake is good at is tight knit communities and loads of stupid fun. I do also like the esports aspect but it does not represent 99% of the actual players. P.S You are not helping your case to new players by scoffing at them in the first place. How stupid can you be?
also to comment about what you're saying I agree 100%. I remember playing Quake live 10 years ago, we had Advanced level servers, and you can tell these guys were veterans from q3 days and before. Every now and then some noob would come in the server thinkin they were 'advanced'.. and they look liked a little jack rabbit that just got thrown into the lions den. They'll either leave in couple mins, otherwise we'll just vote that person out. The disparity in skill levels was very transparent. Ah i miss those days
2 things that I would add on, I'm a veteran quake player and I would say 2 major problems which contribute to people not wanting to play it are the people who have been playing these games for decades that continue to play and will wreck you once you meet them in game (I do not include myself in that). Also the launch of quake champions was massively botched and neutered its numbers for the foreseeable future. The community had a chance to grow and was killed by a problem ridden launch.
QC at launch was horrible. The champion balance was atrocious, completely true. The state of QC right now is how it should have been in the beginning, but that's how it goes when you try to experiment with champions like that. The counter-point I'd give to you about going up against veterans is... if I am playing against a person who's played the game for so long, why would I expect to beat him? Would I get into a boxing ring with Mike Tyson thinking I'm going to show him the business? The ego on people to get so offended that they will get slapped around a bit while learning the ropes is silly. Meanwhile, these folks have zero problem dropping $70 on the next iteration of broken CoD, complaining about bugs, broken weapons, broken challenges, etc., but want to turn their noses up against playing skilled people in Quake... I don't get it :D
@@0d1nnquake14 I agree it's not the veterans fault for being good, and I will say I'm at fault as well for slapping some new players around proverbially (though I'm not nearly as good as others), but my point was not that inherently them being better was a problem, but more that it becomes a turn off when the average player seems able to wipe the floor with ANY new player. It's that massive skill gap that makes the challenge seem insurmountable to new players where other games have what I would call a pop-in-and-play where no feature of the game is needing so badly to be learned that the game is unreachable seemingly. Though a better tutorial system, or more standard matchmaking when it came out with rank imposed matchmaking could have easily solved the problem I think.
I mainly watch pro Quake & don't play it, but i couldn't agree more w/ this video. As a CSGO player i find it insane when people have over 2,000 matches on Faceit, and are still level 3. How have you not learned a single thing from 2,000 matches???
It all fell apart when society decided everyone is a winner.
Fair, transparent environment should be the foundation of community, society has nothing to do with it.
It all fell apart when society stopped helping/caring for each other.
"we live in a s o c i e t y"
Egalitarianism in all forms is destructive and defies natural order, it is being forced on us but the reality of its pathology manifests as the social ills we're seeing in the modern world as critical theory permeates more and more of our culture.
That’s been going on since the 80s lmfao
Quake is a hard game to master but also an easy game to just have fun with friends. Imho the biggest thing holding it back is the fact QC was made to be an esport and offers little to no direction for a new player. That said, I think a Quake reboot with a full campaign, more MP modes, some with a higher playercount, and proper movement training levels could be just as successful as DOOM.
You're right. I hope the Quake reboot has a full and comprehensive single player experience and ways for friends to have fun together. That's important because even the public games in Quake are at a very high level, not even talking about dueling.
@@0d1nnquake14 They really are. If you are lucky there will be 1 or 2 players out of 8 (or up to 32 in QL) that are also newish. But if a new game was popular enough to flood the servers with noobies and use skill based matchmaking to keep the vets from scaring them off instantly, i think people would see how fun this game is. I mean, playing with friends who are at similar skill level to you is REALLY fun. The lucky midair shots, the map deaths to laugh about, its great. But you don't get to have that fun when you just keep getting killed by tryhards before you can grab a half decent gun and some armor.
Picked up this game like 2 years ago, its hard as hell and I'm still learning. Its so much fun tho.
Live by the rail. Die by the rail
Yeah i have had the game for a few years but i didnt start playing till a few weeks ago. Really enjoy it
just do all your practice with the railgun and u will be good
Yeah I have played alot of competitive TF2, and TF2 is also fast pased and with rockets etc, but still not as fast as Quake. But I had an easier time learning it than a cs player would in my own opinion I would say. But that's just a speculation.
I can't win any matches, wish some more new people played this, I've played quake since 2015 and I'm still not good.
I think these older shooter's had imaginative level's that made it possible for you to take advantage of short cuts and airlifts. I think this still made you feel smart even if you were getting killed. They also had a future meets medieval aesthetic that kept things interesting.
This has been a sad reality I've been aware of since QC came out and I tried to get numerous friends into it. They ultimately stick with games like Overwatch where you can always blame your teammates for your failure, or CoD where you can bitch about loadouts or whatever. There's always an excuse for bad players who won't self-reflect, Quake purges those people fast. Furthermore, if you've ever read comment threads criticizing modern FPS like the new Modern Warfare, the issues always concern how the game doesn't make them feel good enough. The average FPS player doesn't ask "how do I play the game better", they ask "how should this game play better for me".
While I mostly agree with you, let's not bash Overwatch. It is certainly easier than Quake, but the game still requires a ton of skill, especially if you want to play at a decently high level. Besides the mechanical skills you need to learn for every hero, there are tons of team compositions and interactions that create near infinite possibilities/strats for teamplay. Even though there are many of those players in Overwatch that don't self-reflect, never truly improve and always blame the team, there's still lots of players in there that share the same mindset many Quake players have; just addiction to self-improvement/progress. What you said in your comment and what was said in the video is mostly true, but let's not be too elitist. Let's be more humble and not look down on other games that much just because we're Quakers :)
And I'm saying that as someone who has been playing Quake for more than 15 years, with about 10k hours played and it being my fav game of all time. But I also play Overwatch and CoD. Let's show other games a bit more respect :)
@@disruptor6550 I get what you're saying. My point wasn't that those games don't take skill, my point was that they have mechanisms in place that provide bad players with excuses. I know certain QC players will pull the same bs over champion abilities, but those players tend to get laughed out of their nonsense.
@@groundtank there plenty of anti skill mechanisms it’s not always just a player coping
@@groundtank Nah, This game is come out 5 years ago, and its shit. No balanced, buggy, and broken. The netcode is shit, and slow, and lags, even with my 40ping has lag spikes from server side.
Most of the time praying for a kill, because a player one shot me from a ss from 99999999yard, how does 150dmg?how the fuk?AND not just me who says this, its on the reddit. There are users whose has this problem.
Its because the netcode, either you can't do nothing with it, the server counts towards the slower or the faster ping users.
Second problem with the game, its not possible to train. A new user will be killed fast, and the system what they added, this hidden mmr with that low userbase kill these players...they will leave soon and play overwatch because its much much easier and not need to be that pro on SELF, because its team game...
@@danielszenyan7286 rofl k. Its shit. Go somewhere else now bud. This is exactly the shit we are talking about haha you are just reaching for whatever you can to say its shit. Wanna train? Go face bots, invite a few friends. First step is actually having friends though. Sour attitudes generally lack those. Aaaaaanyway. We dont need whiners on quake. Happy to see em go
I love quake
thank you for that comment because it‘s the only thing that needs to be said regarding the topic!
same
I love it since 1998 fell in love with quake and computers best fps ever .
Yes it's a good game
@@korporalkapuzen well clearly the fps genre isn't for you.. why not try mobas or RTS?
"the true addiction comes from self improvement"
I couldn't agree more with this statement. Owning up to the fact that some people frag you because they simply played better and realizing that it's up to you to get to that level is what I truly love about gaming. Quake has this in spades.
This is why I have over 2000 hours in Doom Eternal
Honestly the arena shooters teached me losing is normal when learning
to be fair when it comes to arena shooters, if you are not getting rekt there is something wrong.
When I started playing Unreal Tournament at the beginning of 2000, I was getting owned so freaking hard. But the reward lied in the desire of getting better, and that practicing would pay off. Every day I would practice, come in contact with people willing to help me get better, and after a while, I could participate in high-level competitive games. I still, even when I'm 33 now, look back at that time with a great sense of fulfillment. Something I've never really experienced in modern shooters, with the exception of beating Doom Eternal on Ultra Nightmare.
Apart from the trophy culture, I would also add another factor that has made the online-gaming community way less enjoyable. It's the watering down of intelligent people online. It used to be just nerds talking to each other through Mirc and Teamspeak, being collectively amazed by the fact they could play videogames over the internet. Now, most of the lobbies are filled with children who barely learned to read and think it's cool to troll as much as possible (I'm generalizing off course). I do really miss the days that 90% of the people you met online were decent, approachable human beings.
Try speedrunning FPS games at a high level. It is a good reason to play old games (and new games) with a fresh approach, meet new people and further develop your knowledge of how things work in games etc. However, there are idiots as well in those communities, just not as many.
I am now 35 years old, I played UT 2004 so good as every day from 2005 to 2008 i was addicted to this game was also in a CTF clan my kids dont even know this game .
This game was unbelievably great , this cannot be described if you have not experienced how wonderful this was .
@@XboxNL30180 I want to learn a good arena shooter where players still play. What would you recommend? Champions maybe too much for my pc
@@zorojuro7562 Quake Live
Strangelove was so fun to fly around
The speed, weapon vareity, utter chaos and movement is what I love about quake even if I suck.
That's what I like when I first tried it out a moment ago
I played this new Quake last week and I got addicted for 3 days in a row, but I had to delete it because I was hooked as hell. I was feeling good and having fun in this game, even being bad and losing every single game. No online game in the last years, like TF2, CSGO, Overwatch and CoD, got me having fun even when losing. Losing in Quake Champions just feels good, hahah.
same,was missing modes where everyone had same health,armor etc cap so your skill trully showed not getting a cheap win via pressing an Active Skill button
Yep, totally agree. Modern games embrace the "everyone is a winner" stuff. Sadly, this is why I don't see AFPS ever becoming mainstream again
Too bad. Thats is that problem
never heard of the “everyone is a winner” which games have this?
And yet Fighting Games are still way bigger then Afps
@@MILDMONSTER1234 As someone who enjoys afps and fighting games I've always found this kind of weird honestly. personally I find fighting games to have a way higher barrier to entry than afps. I learned how to strafe jump and shoot competently in a few months but I still drop my combos in guilty gear all the time. Also afps is a subgenre attached to a much more mainstream genre than fighting games so you'd figure there'd be way more runoff but there just isn't.
Have you heard of battle royale games? 1 of 100 people win per match idk what your talking about and this comment section is full of boomers talking nonsense
You're absolutely right. Watching yourself get better is so satifying in this game. This is my first Quake, and I'm not gonna lie, I did uninstall it more than once. But now, 4 years later, things that were so hard, like movement and timing and weapon selection for the right battles is all second nature and things I barely have to think about. No better feeling than topping a leaderboard in Quake Champions, no other game gives me that rush.
I think this is normal and happens a lot, I've definitely had similar moments... but what draws you back is the challenge, and it's true! Because when you win, it feels so much better
Honestly, this advice can be applied to everything. Quake is for sure a game is similar to a military boot camp, you'd get destroyed early, but after developing the mechanical skills, gamesense, and smarts. You're set for any other fps games.
I just started and there's another thing that's different from modern FPS games--you can't just spawn and rush into combat. You need to collect weapons and armor before engaging which gives the impression of people being able to 1 shot you, because they can, because you've got half the effective HP they do. Made the first game frustrating. Made the next ones much better once I noticed that. The game is amazing.
back in quake 2, enemy actually can oneshot you from spawn. rail back then deal 100hp dmg, and you have exactly 100hp after spawn
Becasue modern gamers mostly only know Quake as an arena deathmatch shooter. Time for Hugo Martin to fix this problem.
Quake never reached the same popularity as Doom sadly since it has an identity crisis
As someone who plays QC regularly, this video is spot on!!
Heard that. And the skills translate to every single game. Flicks, tracking, projectiles, positioning and timing.
i still play quake live, i get recked but i love the feeling that i know ive been getting better and improving its amazing
So a friend of mine plays Overwatch competitively; One of the guys he works with is top 500 in the world on it and he told us that alot of top end Overwatch players play Quake on the side for the exact reasons you state in this video; Companies dont allow for self improvement anymore when MMR is built in a way that as soon as you start looking like youre going to quit they give you an easy win game and its painfully obvious when the algorithm does that at high ends (When a Diamond tier gets placed against platinum). Awesome vid man keep up the great work.
I wish more gamers heard this... spot on
Just like BJJ is not for everyone, just like weight lifting is not for everyone, Quake is not for everyone. Why? Because it is hard, it requires putting in the effort, and you have to take your time with it. And yah, once you get it, it is the most rewarding FPS out there. I would say the game is really close to perfection, however, as much as I love the gameplay, the game could be better from a technical point of view: we could have better loading times and what not. And yah, I have been playing since the first beta. I was struggling to not hit last place in every match. Took my time with it, and now I am usually nr.1 or in the top 3 in TDM and DM. I have also recently started getting into duels, because if I want to get better, then I need to play duel. Anyways, great points and great video. Its sad that this game is not bigger, but at the same time fuck it, maybe amazing shit should not be for everybody.
@@ikilledthemoon Its kinda like how most people prefer to go out on a casual bowling outing than to play paintball
was it that hard? maybe people met me back in the old days, i made it harder for everyone :p
I love this game and play it daily ... have been for 3 years now.. thing is I live in Syria and my ping is a nightmare.. thats why no one plays the game here.. maybe if it had a Lan mode people here would play it more
I'm considering a purchase of this game, but does it have split screen multiplayer?
@@idk-ky8ev you don't have to purchase this game. It is free to play. And no it doesn't have a split screen mode
You can create your own server just like back in the day. You need to add your friends in Quake instead of Steam and click on Custom game and invite them
Syrian quake player? im also syrian and i play quake too :)
btw in my opinion quake champions was kinda disappointing compared to q2 and 1
QC just needs a proper story driven tutorial, that would visually and simply, go over all the mechanics and ease you in. It needs more varied and less intense game modes where newcomers can learn the mechanics and have fun before jumping into duels, maybe some generic alien cannon fodder NPC thingy to fill in for some casual practice( like Doom's weak demons or somt). It would give new players a good sense of accomplishment in defeating those, while gaining achievements in random funny quests which teach you how to play. Next, very important imo, some short singleplayer narrative to tie the characters and places together, and on the marketing level, a few short backstory lore videos for the characters to explain their past and give them depth. Similar to how LoL promotes characters. Some kind of dynamic events tied to the particular maps would be very cool too in giving them a sense of life and happening. It can be anything, like that giant eye in the Ruins of Sarnath, but bigger and more impactful to the strategy development on the map. If they focused on these, I am pretty sure the game would fly.
Saw this topic about the tutorial in the Discord and syncerror basically said they LOST more players after the tutorial they used to have because it wasn't indicative of the gameplay that follows. Apparently without the tutorial they'd have more success with player retention. Absolutely backwards of what I'd expect, but interesting.
@@0d1nnquake14 Well but I don't think it helped either, the playercount continues to decline. Probably the tutorial was badly designed...
Whenever I watch my friend play Battlefield 1, I roll my eyes whenever he gets bombed from a plane he couldn't have possibly avoided or having to deal with juggernauts with way too much health. I'm proud to be a Quake player.
I mean you should always be checking the air for them and with the juggernauts there loud slow bad at longer ranges and can get one shotted by bayonet charges and back stabs (I think it's a one shot for back stabs)
Its hilarious as well as the battlefield community is pretty elitist
@@gmjammin4367 The Battlefield community is half-retarded. If any FPS community is elitist, it's niche ones like this, because you have half hardcore elitists that harp about the new generation being all casuals, and half people who genuinely want more people to play their game.
@@sampleentry5253 yeah I ran into a guy yesterday blabbering about how he'd been playing the game for 30 years. Got mad at me for 'meta-abusing' by using the rocket launcher and grabbing red armor. This community seriously needs new blood as these people keep others from entering. But I do have to say that Battlefield players are pretty elitist too, its any fps game lmao
TLDR; Quake frags require you to git gud and CoD frags require you to have the bare minimum of a consciousness.
Even worse, games like fortnite have built in "preserve fun" mechanics like completely RNG weapon spread and recoil, weapon drops and locations and power ups, they made the absolutely lowest skill bar requirements to make sure eveyone is allowed a chance no matter how utterly incompetent they are, so much so that the only skilled players in the game were forced to abuse the built-in defensive building mechanic to salvage the game from mediocrity and attempt to give it any depth, studying complex and autistic build strings for hours because there is nothing else to the game on a fundamental level.
I would rather get fragged by pros for 200 hours than stay in a practice mode room bulding by myself for 200 hours, If I want to build I'll do it so peacefully in minecraft to relax, not in a competitive shooter with no depth other than spawning fort knox around you whenever they sneeze in your direction.
Fortnite actually requires a ridiculous amount of skill to be played competitively
@@poolessbumhole I would not bother with these people, they either got rekt in other games or never played them so that means they are random and bad lmaoxD
Fortnite's mechanical depth and uniqueness is unprecedented. The skill gap did not stop growing
I don't think that it's a result of people's tastes changing, but rather the fact that gaming is becoming more mainstream, and such the playerbase is minuscule in comparison to other franchises that arent nearly as difficult to get into.
It's entirely based on the industry finding ways to get the most amount of money for the least amount of work. Vanguard is a great example.
@@0d1nnquake14 idk how I missed this reply.
Gaming has become a wonderfully social activity. The reason so many people play Fortnite, Minecraft, Warzone, etc. is because it's a great way to socialize and bond with people you care about. Most people really don't care about winning that much, and the ones who do either don't know what quake even is, or they don't like the fact that they can't blame bad luck when they get clapped so they stick to casual games. It takes a type of person to have the patience for quake.
Quake is like plugging in to matrix, it's not about your strength or speed, it's about your mind.
How strong is your mind.
I remember Morpheus' words when he trains Neo in kungfu fight, "is that air you think you're breathing?"
Sometimes I still can pull out competitive fight in games like quake if I force myself, but it will gets tiring pretty fast. Back in my teenage I could play quake 1, 2, 3 deathmatch all night long (they used to called it the killing jar). Time has change though, my physical is not as strong as in 1997 and I have a better use of my physical resource.
I wanna add a few ideas to your vid because you're absolutely correct.
In my eyes there's been a huge shift in the shooter genre w/ lootcrates and unlocks and everything and its stemming from hijacking the brain's dopamine systems, and rewarding game time over effort and skill development (that said: there are no casuals that finish Dark Souls)
Unfortunately, the triple A title devs have realised that the REAL game is the damned unlockables. Gameplay is good enough so you don't quit, but the progression systems are made so you keep playing thanks to those dopamine hits... and then you pay for next month's DLC.
As you've said, Quake is almost exclusively about the intrinsic rewards of your sub-skills eg. stafe jumps, rocket jumps, rocket-rail combos etc. but average gamers just aren't willing to slog through the pain and struggle when there's something that provides all the rewards with little struggle.
Here's the kicker though: everyone who I introduced to Quake who hated it and couldn't see it's genius NEVER played any competitive sport seriously, or, they have never taken their careers seriously.
Or in other words, they coast through life and have never experienced needing to put extensive effort and struggle into something, they've always just done "good enough" and were never A-grade employees.
I don't play any video games anymore, I've swapped gaming for boxing but I still have a soft spot for Quake because there are so many parallels.
When you're losing in a duel/sparring session you look like a fking idiot, even if the other guy is only a bit better but has taken initiative. But again though, you power through it and develop those skillsets. Only the best get trophies, for everyone else, you get your ass beaten over and over and over and over, and your self esteem takes a beating too, but you toughen up and push through it which builds your character and your wisdom - some essential traits for life that so many gamers and people in general lack these days
there are indeed casuals that complete dark souls because dark souls isnt hard. you want a hard action game? play shinobi (ninja gaiden)
@@sonic-bb complete facts lmao
Dark souls is probably the most pretentious wannabe hardcore game out here
@@sonic-bb True, DS has a built in easy mode. Can't beat the boss, then level up until you can.
11 CoD players got offended.
Literally picked this game up hours ago. Already having a ton of fun learning.
Great point, people don't want to get hit by game, they wanna only pleasure, hope Quake will survive dark times
game dont hit, gamers do :D
but quake apparently needs some kind of mm outside of ranked. twas very painful to lose slipgate 10 in a row on event. and u cant even see ur skill growth if enemy is much stronger every game.
@@myhorseisamazing5883 1 year late, but the problem is the absurd skill gap, 20~23 years of pure skill paying quake vs 0 hours of a new player
@@elecman748 "20 yr skill gap" is overrated imo. You'll be competitive with anybody after 3k hours, and you'll start to realize what your true potential is/can be. I play a game from the mid 2000s with a niche mode that has its own little community that still plays it and some of these 20 year vets aren't spectacular players. That being said, you can't just ask these guys who've been playing since the 2000s to stop because it makes a new player feel overwhelmed. This is the nature of games that require skill.
@@AguyR1401 Well, that's the problem with arena shooters, a game dev can't ask the veterans to stop pub stomping on the servers, and the veterans just can't stop "being good" lol.
Also, nobody with some self-esteem will play a multiplayer game for more than 5 hours when they are getting destroyed, I was one of those, loved the campaign (completed every single Quake game on nightmare) but I couldn't tolerate nor enjoy the skill gap.
This is a MUCH NEEDED take in the modern FPS community. Great video and great reasoning.
This video explains my feelings. Thank you for making it.
As a terrible terrible player, I love it. To me Quake Champions is a fantastic interactive piece of art. Like being in a trance.
Great video - been playing Quake multiplayer since '99 - and it has ruined me from anything else that isn't as fast and intense - I cannot play COD, it just feels way too slow and limiting, plus no rocket jumps - Unreal Tournament was always pretty good, but Quake, Quake 3, Quake Live and now Quake Champions have always been the best multiplayer FPS out there - totally subbing to this channel, and looking forward to some more great Quake videos like this!
You might like Krunker (I gave up this one but gosh the simplistic but hectic movement on it)
You make a lot of valid points, especially when talking about cod, but there are a lot of hard fps out there, games that require time and effort not to suck at.
Games like csgo and valorant have very specific movemen mechanics, and r6 siege just has a ton of different things you have to know just to understand whats happening at any given time.
I feel the real reason quake isnt as popular is just about trends and genres, tactical team shooters and battle royale is whats being played nowadays.
CS has had it's skill ceiling lowered every new edition, it's still above CoD but not by a whole lot unless you are playing at a competitive level. R6 Siege rewards all the crappy behaviors of campers on Call of Duty. Abusing sight lines, crouch walking, aim walking, abusing the netcode for corners/headglitches, corner camping, just no.
@@eclipsegst9419 Not everything is mechanical skill too there is something called understanding the maps, knowing which headglitches are the best which corners you can get the most camping out of, not everything is go in brrrr I kill. Gone are the days where you only rely on mechanical outplay without using your brain to actually plan it out.
@@103260A Anyone can wait for kills to come to them. That isn't a skill it's just a choice.
@@eclipsegst9419 if you're winning the game by choosing the best spots, that's called playing enough to understand where the best spots are, don't tell me the best players don't know where a noob will try to camp them out? It's like a csgo pro vs a camper he'll know every spot on the map where the guy can camp. Isn't that called skill where you played enough so u know all the map positions?
If I win by camping I camp, if I win by rushing I rush it's doing what is best in that situation that's called understanding the game and you're telling me that's not a skill that you need to learn to play any specific game?
Nowadays ppl like games with more abilities, it's a different skill set altogether. Understanding ability cooldowns, ultimate tracking, which spot you should not stand at that gives your opponent an advantage with their abilities etc.
it's totally different
@@103260A It's not hard to learn where the spawns are on a map, or what routes people run. This is a necessary basic skill for any FPS and being able to do it is nothing special. People who out maneuver and out aim their enemy are more skilled than those who hide behind crates ADS'd like a coward. Any child can do that. It isn't a "mental skill bro" knowing spawns is FPS 101. Camping is cowardice.
it all comes down to the old hardcore gamer vs casual gamer debate. as gaming became less of a niche nerdy hobby, a whole new market of casual gamers has appeared, and companies had simply adapted to the needs of a gamer who maybe only plays on the weekends, or plays casually while hanging out with friends. it doesn't make sense for these games to have a high skill ceiling. its not that people got soft or lazy, the hardcore gamers are still there, its the market has changed and the really devoted gamers are relatively a minority of gamere now. an average gamer just isn't interested in that, and you cant really force them to be. considering your preamble about subjectivity of games, this shouldn't really be seen as an issue, just as a sign of a different era of gaming market
Well said. I remember when COD also involved skill to be played. COD2 was my foundation for Quake Live and it was a beautiful one way transition. It is truly addicting. I don't play online anymore but I speedrun games which has a special element to it as well.
This touches on one of the biggest problems in modern gaming that no one really seems to be talking about. You said the magic word "perseverance". Lack of perseverance is exactly why games that are fun and rewarding for actual effort and know how get shit on by the masses. They wander into these pvp lobbies, expecting to carry their team, then they play terribly, blame their team, throw a tantrum as they AFK or leave the match altogether. Without perseverance, gamer don't know how to lose, don't know how to get better, don't know how to get that addicting experience of continual self-improvement and challenge.
Sincerely, thank you for making this video!
Q3A and UT2003 were my fav games. And I absolutely loved QC. Of course I don't even rank in the top 3 in TDM, but that's not because the game is bad!
I love this video. You speak volumes of truth here. My introduction to Quake was Quake 3 Arena way back way back. I even went as far as downloading lots of mods for that game. Great times! I started Quake Champions last week and I absolutely love it. My only issue is that I'd have loved to see more of the OG Quake 3 Arena champions, Xaero, Sarge, etc. Quake Champions is a fun game. thanks for taking the time to make this video. Imma subscribe!
This is a great video hits the nail on the head unfortunately, I have recently got into quake champions as an ex quake 3 devotee & Im loving it, I havnt had a problem getting games within a minute or so (although Im only playing deathmatch) its been difficult getting back into it after so long but as you said its a challenge to improve started at the bottom been moving up Im now in the top half of most matches & have even won a couple. Perseverance pays off...
Try OpenArena: free Q3 clone with an active community;
also Xonotic is another AFPS that's actively recommended.
@@parthode5360 yap, openarena kicks ass...if, if if there were tdm, so bored of ca..
@@NinjaCoderxda Hi eb, CTF is quite active though. But again, you know it. 😁. Genius FTW.
@@parthode5360 i know it. I miss the "super" server. There are tdm servers (vihmu). Playing ctf or ca whole day...(and often 8vs8...no way) :)
@@NinjaCoderxda I haven't played on the Super server though. But, talking of Vihmu, we don't have 8 v 8 lol. Rarely we do get 7 v 7. Mostly it's 3 v 3 or 4 v 4 though. Not many casuals come there as most people there are really serious about the games tbh.
give up kids. Arena shooters are about YEARS of practice to get even a little good.
This went from “is quake champions any good?” To “call of duty is garbage and no other shooter is as good as this and you’re wrong if you disagree” real fast.
I used CoD as an example of the current gaming trends, and if you can't think beyond my examples, that's your problem
What I realized after switching off of games like COD and switching from aim assisted controller to MnK as an input is that I love the process of going from being bad at something to being good at something. A game in which I can top the leaderboards after a day or two of playing is not a game I want to play. If it doesn't kick me on my ass and punish my bad habits, I'm not learning a new skill. For me winning isn't what is fun about videogames; what is fun about videogames for me is when I realize "hey, I have improved. I wouldn't have been able to do that in this game 2 months ago."
League of Legends, CSGO, and Rocket League are all games that are incredibly difficult at a higher level, yet they are still massively popular. These games require patience and practice just like Quake so certainly being difficult isn't the only reason Quake is niche, there's plenty of competitive gamers addicted to self improvement. I think a big reason Quake is unpopular is that the main competitive mode is duel, 1v1 games aren't popular anymore, look how niche StarCraft and fighting games are nowadays, people want teammates and coordinated plays! Notice how the games I first mentioned are team games. I love Quake but competitively it is designed around 1v1 and that just isn't popular anymore and I'm not sure if it ever will be.
team modes exist but how it helps? :)
they just have to remake quakeworld tdm 4v4 and it will be good. quake just has too many team modes to unite the community. i agree that duel isn't very appealing for properbly most of the players
It isn't as popular because it's way harder and more punishing for mistakes. You can be snowballed in a duel due to one error, while in team modes your mistakes can be mitigated by your team mates. So it's connected to the theme of this video.
Quake to me is only clan arena.
The way you pronounce "What's gonna happen?" is golden. Good video by the way. Thanks.
It all spells to a painful truth: the death of a genre.
I got into quake gsmes faster than cod
@@absentehhh8263 Quake 3, along with Half Life 2 and Opposing Force was my childhood summed up.
even though i agree to this video, i still think being a diverse gamer is the number one important thing to appreciate every single genre there is.
I got back into QC around the end of January this year. Did my Duel placement matches, started around 1200 and got up to 1500 (which I'm sure is through a bit of luck). It's actually amazing that I can get balanced Duels going within a minute or two, even after midnight. But I suspect it's because Europe has a pretty dedicated group of people playing, especially in the East.
But I think what partly put off the casual audience from playing is that the other modes are just not that fun to play at all, the last time I played anything other than Duel was probably around 2018. DM crams 8 people into maps, sometimes maps made for 2, and it's utter chaos. Not in the fun way either. It reminds me of those Call of Duty games in Shipment, with 16 people running around. Or instant-respawn TF2 on 2Fort, with 16 players on each team. Really silly stuff that gets dull quick, and is not what the game was designed around IMO. Quake isn't even particularly hard, you can get basic strafe jumping down in your first 10 minutes.
If it wasn't for Duel I would never play anything except fighting games, because hardly any FPS game has that solo 1-vs-1 experience. I can't even think of many other modern FPS game that doesn't require you to be playing with a team, and playing most of these games with randoms is awful.
Exactly how I felt. Deathmatch is fun yeah but the amount of times a fucking random person materializes out of nowhere and screws over an ongoing firefight is actually absurd
This i why i love Quake. At first i got absolutely destroyed, But for some reason i still loved it. Even when i raged and thought of throwing my monitor into the wall, i still wanted to play another game. i spent alot of time in watching tutorials on strafe-jumping, then practicing in custom, now it's like second nature. I keep improving my game, trying hard with item-timings atm, and Quake just keeps getting even better. Pure addiction!
You've got it totally backwards. Quake Champions failed because it took the game renowned for being a test of pure mechanical skill and filled it with blatantly overpowered no skill character abilities that are more often the determiner of fights than player skill. Snore-lag's poison is impossible to miss, even if you do someone else can run over it afterwards and still get hit, deals massive damage over time, provides tracking abilities, area denial, an easy get off me button in a bad spot, and an easy initiator in a good spot. Not to mention she has easy to use source style strafing, providing her more mobility than many characters, WHILE STILL HAVING MORE HEALTH. Death Knight is in the same boat, but with less utility and more way more damage. Oh and if you pick BJ you just get to be twice as good as your opponent by pressing one button. Then they had to add FUCKING MINI SENTRIES. What a joke. So much skill in dropping a literal aimbot turret that can control a whole room, and for some ungodly reason also gets quad when you do. And you think COD is bad lol.
then learn how to overcome it, simple as that and besides, in the end of the day, its just a video game so you have nothing to lose and still have good time, sure it has some flaw but if you know how to manage it, i dont find it an issue to it, and tell me if you can, he has said some pros and cons about the game. if you really dont care at all, up to you
@@michaellyant I still play and love the game. But the dudes whole video is just shitting on COD cause he thinks he's so much better.
I feel like Clan Arena (and Rocket Arena, going back to Q2/Q3) would be the primary driver for a healthy player base because of the exact reasons you mentioned - it’s the quickest way for new players to start fragging. You can have beginner servers full of CA players, and with proper ELO filtering, they will have a blast.
I got into Quake 2 via RA2, and subsequent versions were my primary game mode for like 10+ years. Quake Champions not having the current duel platform and not having Clan Arena, at launch, is what made it DOA. (The round system was a good attempt to level the playing field for new players, but it also broke up the action too much and didn’t actually end up leveling the playing field.)
In the old days, at any given time of the day there were hundreds of Rocket/Clan Arena players playing. It was a guaranteed game if you couldn’t find anything else, and it was frankly more fun than traditional deathmatch.
The thing is though you are going to get wrecked but when you finally get to the point where you beat the guy that has been wrecking you for 3 months it is going to be massively satisfying.
honestly. maybe not all. team fortress 2 is only quake based game everyone played. i mean u guys didnt realise that soldier is literally just quake guy especially if he use original?
Hey look, a new channel talking about Quake *instantly subscribes
right on
A no means no, you won't be midair-ing people with Rockets today, or tomorrow, or next week, or even in a month. Quake in it's arena form is the Dark Souls of Quake. Get good, baby. You gotta keep practicing like daddy Fatal1ty once said.
this is so sad that games like quake or cs1.6 dont have many fans because of their very high skill cap
Laughts in Quake 4
1.6 doesn't have "many fans", because at this point in time there is a alternative, that is clearly better.
@@TheGudStuffs Q4 doesnt really have an alternative but the game was shit in the beginning and not a lot of pros even tried to learn the movement really. Its a subculture with about 70 people playing from time to time and like 15 poeple who are actually good and play. Ithink with Sanchez´s video on Aimer7 and Serious they got more attention but in the end i dont know if there will be something to replace it soon
Its so absurd because it was the huge skill gap that made the game so much more appealing ... when i started gaming in 2003 with unreal tournament and quake. It was already 4-6 years to late at this point and You basically had these gods dominating everybody and you wanted to learn and be just like them. i blame it on how weaker and weaker each generations get
@@frontabustafrontabusta82 Arena shooters were always niche tho
Agreed! I'm a Quaker that won 3 times the title of the Best Call of Duty mod of the world with Call of Duty Frontlines. Now I'm working on Call of Duty Rio. Check gameplays on my channel if you wish to play Call of Duty but with a great gameplay as Quake. Cheers
Are these for CoD1?
@@eclipsegst9419 no, for COD4. But I also did to W@W and Black Ops. Cheers
@@BloodCultureMultigaming Awesome I'll give the WaW version a play
@@eclipsegst9419 Enjoy! The W@W is a VERY ligher version of Frontlines. Here some videos : ruclips.net/video/E41aDaMvbKc/видео.html
Honestly i don't see why this game isn't more popular, and slow games like battle royale are. Impatience has always been the stereotype of the modern generation. So it's odd to see games where you have to wait in lobbies, or just run run run looking for someone to shoot at for such long amounts of time, be so popular.
Quake has a special nostalgic attachment for me, I still like it to an extent (had many fun rounds with friends back when Q3 arena was a thing) but have to add a point there, not very noob friendly lol. I mostly play single player and almost never competitive games with barely any time to spare these days to practice or develop my aim and work on skills on a grind.
No offence but I only saw a comparision with Call of Duty vs QC in this video but games like PUBG, Dota 2 and CSGO are pretty famous needing some initial skill, luck and has a toxic community much like quake.
My only issue with Quake these days is that none of my old friends play it anymore and the community itself is so full of elitists the environment is just too toxic to bother putting any effort at all. Just my opinion.
Still have to agree tho, getting a luck shot on someone has an adrenaline rush like no other. Arena FPS should be more focused to players willing to put the time into them
Try Open Arena (Free Q3 clone) if you loved Q3. Community is small but diverse, active and welcoming. It has a wide spectrum of players from top to bottom, so rarely you meet elitists or assholes.
Your name sounds 🇮🇳, hope to see more Indians play🙂
I disagree with the video. For majority of cases people dont say "Quake is bad" for the reasons author mentions, they just say "Its too hard" and they dont bother playing it. Perhaps its easier to illustrate this with chess as an example. Chess is extremely competitive game with nearly infinite skill cap. Chess is painful for beginner and not very rewarding- you get little to none adrenaline and/or dopamine rush. Yet chess is largely respected by gamers, people dont call it a "bad game" for being so hard. Yet, there are not so many people choosing to dedicate their time and energy to master it.
I think problem with Quake has more to do with its competition in gaming industry. "CounterStrike" completely dominates competitive shooter genre. Comparing "Quake" and "CallOfDuty" in my opinion is apples and oranges, because "CallOfDuty" player base is not a target audience for Quake. "CallOfDuty" players are looking mostly for casual fun.
I feel like these reasons are why Doom Eternal isn't more mainstream. I hope they never change this formula. Such a breath of fresh air.
Just to throw it out there, CSGO has a fish out of water style first impression two, however it managed to gain a much larger following without dumbing down the raw skill aspect. I'm a die hard Quake fan (literally owned a copy of the demo before q1 came out), got my q2 cd on day one, made mods for quake 3, and it sucks to see the game forgotten.
Being honest though, the problem is deeper than just how people perceive the learning curve. A lot of people just assume Quake is a multiplayer game without attributing any link to what originally made quake great (the multiplayer was always the icing on the cake not the base). A majority of the mechanics we see in the modern Doom series now were actually Quake mechanics. Hub worlds, ability power up's, graphics, even some of the visual aesthetics has been jammed into Doom to help that franchise. In a way people don't care about Quake, because they get everything they'd want elsewhere.
Worse the eSports side of Quake is boring. I was a big fan of Rapha for years, but the entire scene may as well not exist any more, as it usually comes down to him or a select few who no-life the arena year after year getting to the finals. It's like watching snooker at an old mans club. For the skill yea there is some hook, but why watch two old farts duke it out, when Overwatch League or Valorant is re-inventing FPS eSports season after season.
I pray ID put out a single player Quake franchise game this year, because maybe it'll do for Quake what Apex did for Titanfall and show a different perspective that people are actually interested in.
So we're gonna get mad that rapha is the king of the hill? thats terrible logic. This is just another reason why team games and more RNG based games like battle royale are popular, because the element of randomness is big enough to where even a first-day-gaming Grandma could win a game against a guy with 1000 hours. ANd how come in terms of Quake and Rapha it's "no-life arena players" but the people that do the same thing in CS:GO and such, it's cool? However, a single player Quake reboot would be cool, and I also agree with you that it could revitalize the game in general.
This is actually really eye opening, especially the part ab the performance blame
The good old days mplayer gamespy teamspeak. All those amazing mods runes and action were my favs. Urban terror was so amazing. 56k modem for that great 180-200 ping HPB was great
I love games like this in every form. I play smash bros melee witch feels like the quake of fighting games.
I think it's pretty important to mention that duel mode in quake is where the serious amount of skill is needed. Probably many people get into tdms or watch videos of tdms for QC and think it's a random game where you have little control. Duels are an incredibly unique experience in fps
Pubs and duels are two totally different worlds. However you can apply duel technique to pub games. If you're able to hold control (or at least timing) of the major items, you're heavily advantaged over the other players who are bouncing around without thinking about anything
Then there’s unholy trinity - that mode I avoided for a loong time, and still rarely end in the top half
There is simply no better balance of pure skill, strategy, timing and reflexes in the gaming space ever. Quake Champions is the truest test of a gamer.
Quake Live*
hugo martin gave an explanation for id software games the best; " 'hey it doesnt matter if you come last we will give everyone 1st place' no, real life doesnt work that way, there are winners and there are the people that lose" a bit brutal but its the truth, recently re-installed quake champions, gotta say im loving it, didnt like it at first but now its something im enjoying.
"Can a new player install the game and start fragging people in 5 minutes, topping the leaderboards."
==> They can't do that in Team Fortress 2, Overwatch, or CSGO either. Also, not everyone can get a positive KDR in Call of Duty; since every kill rests on the death of someone else. Usually 12-year olds. Despite this, *THEY KEEP PLAYING THOSE GAMES*. I won't deny that Quake's gameplay and mindset are different, but this constant elitism on the part of the Quake community means we keep producing takes which miss why modern gamers really don't like Quake Champions (and we do) IMO. Maybe Call of Duty is like this, but we must also ask - why can't Quake be at least like Team Fortress 2? Or CSGO?
For the record, I'm middling on a game like Quake champions - vaguely positive KDR at best. However, last time I tried a game like Battlefield, I got stomped into the ground. (Admittedly, I never tried very hard there.)
Some of CSGO's more insanely skilled players legitimately learned their skills in Call of Duty - mostly in the being a cheeky bastard and reacting ludicrously quick department.
There's more than just 'Quake is more skilled' IMO; there's even more than 'Quake is more skilled on average and also very differently skilled'. Taking responsibility for one's skills; that rush of success; I get it too in Team Fortress 2, or CSGO, or Titanfall 2.
This might be the Quake mindset following me, you can say, rather than those games being as much about that as Quake is, but I got this mindset first from Team Fortress 2, or Mario Kart Wii (not entirely sure that). Low hanging fruit, perhaps, since TF2 is a direct child of Quake, sure, but the point stands that modern gamers aren't some stereotyped Call of Duty child, not when the likes of CSGO exist.
"If you're tired of being treated like that - " Maybe they'll give Overwatch or CSGO a try. As they tend to do. Therein lies the problem; there's plenty of people out there playing fair and highly competitive games out there, none of which are named Quake. We can totally try to snipe those looking for skill from the Call of Duty community, but, at some point, if you want to speak about modern gamers, you have to confront the reality that CSGO, TF2, and Overwatch exist.
I really liked your comment and your point here. I think - and that's just a loose assumption - the biggest problem is that Quake became irrelevant and stagnated for far too long in the overall gaming scene. While the games you mentioned were always releasing new versions, getting new players and expanding to get more and more new players, Quake remained sit at Q3A. Quake 4 wasn't anything to write home about and Enemy Territory: Quake Wars wasn't really Quake as people knew at the peak of it's popularity. By the likes of 2010, strong contenders such as CoD, BF, Halo, CS:GO and Team Fortress were already rooted as the "go to" games for online experience. I have a lot of friends that even back in the last decade remembered Quake and Unreal Tournament fondly, but moved on to the most recent games because these titles were the new thing people were playing. At some point, Quake became a niche and it is still a niche now. It will be a long climb to the spotlight again.
TF2, Overwatch, CS:GO, CoD = all team games. I can be a .5KDR player but as long as I have a 3KDR player on my team, I'm good to go. So my shittiness is offset by the skill of another. In Quake that isn't a thing. If a .5KDR goes against even a 1.5KDR, it's going to be a slaughter. That's the nature of 1v1.
Battlefield is a different type of beast, I'd contend that it's a harder-style arcade shooter. I always had a hard time in Battlefield because I can't see anything, haha. (Age is catching up with me!)
Quake can't be like TF2 or CS:GO because they aren't the same game. They don't have the same mechanics or the same design philosophy. Quake is a 1v1 duel game. TF2 and CS:GO is a team-oriented shooter. Overwatch is the same thing. Not to mention the RNG of battle royale games, which takes a lot of the control from the player and places it into the algorithm of the game. "I hope I get good weapons at this spot!" instead of "Okay, I need rockets, let's go get rockets."
Quake requires you to have great movement, aim, item timing ability, map awareness, and now, champion awareness all at the same time. CS:GO can have special roles, i.e., you could have the sniper, the pistol guy, the rusher, the defender, etc. So players can segregate themselves into what they do best. (Which is cool in it's own right.)
Its hard to take 100% absolute responsibility for yourself and easier to play in a team sport, which I think most people are more interested in.
@@0d1nnquake14 The most popular and most commonly played modes of Quake aren't its 1v1 duels. Do you disagree? We have team deathmatch, general insanity deathmatch, capture the flag, and then modes like slipgate and clan area, all of which are distinctly NOT 1v1. All of which are indeed team modes.
Despite this, players would much sooner play any other 'team' shooter than touch Quake. Why is that?
I don't know about 'good to go' either. Have you ever tried being the .5 KDR player in a 'team' game, like TF2? Or the 0.1 KDR? Maybe it's because I am exactly the type of player who gravitates towards Quake and am not the average, but I've been in that position before and can tell you - whether or not my team wins is basically completely meaningless; all that matters is how I do. This isn't about 'responsibility' or anything either; it's simply because team score stats are far and away, whilst the real experience of getting away with a cheeky move or dying is personal and real.
I'd contend that the average player really thinks in a similar manner in Team Fortress 2. For games which actually strongly emphasize the team's victory, like competitive Valorant, yeah sure this isn't the case, but for the average 2fort CTF TF2 player, they're Quake's fanbase... except they're not playing Quake.
Speaking of Battlefield - if there's one thing Quake is good with it's readability. I don't get blinded by goddamn god-rays out of nowhere like in TF|2 (Titanfall).
Indeed, Quake can't be like TF2 or CSGO. CSGO can't be like TF2; hell, Overwatch really isn't TF2 either. The point isn't to become exactly like those games. It's that those games have exactly the same sort of high-skill competitive focused no-babysitting fanbases as Quake, often with game mechanics damn close to Quake, and yet their players don't touch Quake - and new players prefer those games over Quake. That is what the 'new gamers don't want to take personal responsibility, don't like high skill games' argument completely misses.
"Quake requires you to have great movement, aim, item timing ability, map awareness, and now, champion awareness all at the same time." These are skills I learned in Team Fortress 2; all damn well familiar to me when I began playing Quake. This is cheating, since TF2 is Quake's direct child, but the point remains.
"CS:GO can have special roles, i.e., you could have the sniper, the pistol guy, the rusher, the defender, etc. So players can segregate themselves into what they do best. (Which is cool in it's own right.)"
This is also distinctly untrue of CSGO. Or at least, you overstate the number of roles and how distinct they are tbh. For example, there is no 'the pistol guy'; everyone begins on weak-ass pistols in round one and trades up for better weapons on later rounds unless they're trying to save money; sacrificing their chances of success on a prior round for success on later rounds. Similarly, there are no 'rushers and defenders'; in bomb plant mode everyone is both at once; in hostage rescue an entire team is one or the other, at once. If you want to say that the idiot terrorist who rushes when he should be defending is a rusher (which, well, I'm that guy) - then you'd have to say the same for the quake players who are 'the rushers' for being more aggressive with their plays, versus those who stay back and avoid risk. I would also say that there is no sniper vs rifler in any significant sense, except as mere style again. Most snipers are also going to be damn good riflers. There's vastly more of a difference between any two quake weapons than any two weapons in CSGO TBH.
"Its hard to take 100% absolute responsibility for yourself and easier to play in a team sport, which I think most people are more interested in."
Sure. The big problem is - Quake, even in its old heyday, was not primarily played as a 1v1. It is balanced for 1v1, but its most played modes are modes like Team Deathmatch and Capture the Flag. That is, I'm this scrub who doesn't want to take 100% personal responsibility. Why do I not play Quake CTF? Why do I not play Clan Arena? Why am I not playing Quake TDM?
1999 john romero drug induced extravaganza appreciator vs 2012 multimillionaire indie company shooter enjoyer
Tell them it's free and to try it. You might want to go easy on them for a while, too. :D
@@0d1nnquake14 I'm just shitposting my dude I have no horse in this race
Calling NEW gamers, Modern Gamers XD :p well WE who have been here since the very beginning of PC-Gaming, know exactly what is happening, and it is the participation trophy gamers you are talking about XD :p It is in 99.1% of the times, HIT, Run and hide gamestyle that is being used!! pronewarriors and housecampers, they do NOT like games like QUAKE, because that will ONLY get them killed even more XD and that is WHY I LOVE QUAKE, NO BACKSEAT GAMERS have a chance against us!!!
Get damage, Hide and regen. Instead rush to the health. It sad that people now play to finish battle pass instead gameplay
Came from COD and after playing Doom 2016 in 2019, Eternal in 2020, and QC in 2021, I can safely say that I can never go back to that paradigm of gameplay again.
are u fucking crazy? I had 1500 elo in Quake Champions as a complete quake newbie, the reason I stopped playing its EXACTLY what you are describing. Typical Quake rat takes a rail, and runs with it for 5 minutes straight, hits and run to another corner. Its totally playable playstyle in Quake to hit and run, you can run for entire game, getting chiky damage, and never face your opponnent. Camping in certain spots with rocket or lightning gun is also very common.
@@jankowalski734 If you’re opponent runs from you, you control the map. Get the major items to build an over-stack, then trap em. Running can be punished too.
Still remember the days of good ol Unreal Tournament 2004 and Unreal Championship instagib lobbies.....ran into a grp of solid guys that taught my young 13 yr old dumbass how to really play Unreal....good times good times.
I can't even play regular fps games anymore everyone of them feels so slow like I'm walking in mud
Haha this is the truth... "how do I move faster?!"
I captured Quake III Arena when it was fresh in the early 2000s and it had the exact same feel just like this modern instalment however the difference was that people loved it and it was waaaaaay more popular despite being pretty hard to master. Back than fps games weren't so politically correct or weren't pampering you just like nowadays so we needed to addapt no matter what which sparked ambition when it came to fragging the enemies.
Quake is pretty cut-and-dry objectively good, whether you chose to like the game however, is absolutely subjective.
RIght, so all the people who spent the last near complaining about Cold War compressing the skill gap and punishing good players should stop being silly, stop playing CoD, and start playing a game that rewards skill. That isn't subjective.
In my heart, Quake will always be the number one game. I hope that eventually people will wake up and see that it's worth to put in the effort. I do feel though that Quake Live was better at giving new players a decent experience through the division in different tiers. I picked up Quake Live at 2010 after I saw a K1llsen match at the Intel Extreme Masters. I only had limited Quake 3 experience because my friends preferred to play other stupid games and I did not have fast Internet during the Quake 3 days. But as far as I remember Quake Live was a good experience from the start, because there were different Servers for different tiers and as far as I remember, it was always challenging, but never completely frustrating. Picking up Quake Champions with no prior Quake experience seems hard to me (but still worth it).
kids nowadays, amiright?
TBH it applies to arena shooters and some other old school FPS in general. We're talking here about Quake Champions, but it also applies to any UT game or even Half-Life: Deathmatch. It has been like this for more than a decade and not even QC changed it.
The ever inprovment drive you feal in quake is heroin for the minde 🤘
I love the game even do i feal lake a noob after 20+ years om gaming
Great video, but i have another point of view. You see, other FPS games have this "team" aspect that is really absent in Quake. Sure, it has team modes like team death match, but they don't have the same "work as a team" feeling. Take Overwatch for exemple, it is very successful because it has a very strong team component.
And,
contrary to what you think, this is "important" not only because it's more fun to play with friends, but mainly because *the players need to blame someone else for their faults* .
People don't like to know that they are bad, and Quake makes it very clear. Cod, Overwatch, Fortnite...they can always blame other aspect of the game like "my team sucks", "that guy was camping", etc.
I like team games, not to blame my teammates for losses but because it's a more manageable experience. The chaos of FFA where there's constantly a train-gangbang of people running into your face and coming from behind you is exhausting. In a team game you know there's friendlies around you, behind you and watching other sightlines, even if they do suck their presence is a tripwire. And when the enemy is hitting you from multiple angles it's because you've misplayed or been outplayed, not a fact of life of the game.
@@ausaskar Good point
I don't agree with this at all. Not every game is like COD. CSGO, Valorant, Apex, there are still competitive games with infinite skill ceilings out there where you have to invest time in to get good, and they still are extremely popular. Yes there is a market for games like COD but there is also a market for games you invest in to get better like CSGO for instance that crosses the generational gap. CSGO has young and old players, is the #1 concurrent players game on steam...
Quake Champions isn't popular because its a mediocre game that tried to cash in on the league of legends/overwatch ultimate abilities in every game train. Instead of thinking of a new unique idea to modernize or improve quake, they just tacked on ults and character differences. This pissed off the old base, and didnt really impress new players with its half assed implementation.
They also completely dropped mod / map support (staple of quake), and didnt do anything creative with the game. Its just the same modes/maps with characters with slightly tweaked movement and ultimates. The new tribolt gun is lame and barely used.
Maybe with Microsoft owning Quake now we will see some effort thrown in to bring it back with some creative new ideas and changes that respect the core of the game but improve on it like what we saw with CSGO over the years...
CS:GO will inherently be more popular because it's not nearly as mechanically difficult-fact-plus there is this little thing called loot crate gambling that a lot of CS:GO players (and kid's with parents credit cards) partake in which generates a lot of revenue for that company. So is it the game that makes money, or the loot crate gambling marketplace?
Yes, QC tried something different, but it isn't mediocre. The launch was shaky and the champions needed work. They are in a good place now, but they definitely could have done a better job in the beginning. No argument there. By the way, every single QPL pro I've spoken to personally enjoy the champions, because they were tired of the old Quake formula.
Also, the game had servers for non-abilities, but nobody played them. (Go figure.)
And I agree that they dropped the ball with mod support and custom servers. I hope that comes back either in a future QC update or a future Quake game.
@@0d1nnquake14 Many Quake players in the past moved to CS. Its at worst at the same level mechanically as Quake with stopping your momentum, aim ability, controlling recoil, etc.
Quake also did loot boxes but it wasnt as successful. Loot boxes are not why CSGO is popular, thats ridiculous. It doesnt fit your argument why such a skill based time investment game is so popular so you try to dismiss it.
Quake was the only thing back in the day so it was popular. Nowadays its just not as interesting gameplay wise. Teamplay really doesn't have a place in Quake and never did. People dont want to watch boring 1v1s they want team games. More interesting things happen in a team scenario.
Quake OG here from 1999-2006 era. I think we started on Quake II but QIII Arena is when it all really clicked for me. Couldn’t agree with you more about the no-limit aspect of this game. There is nothing holding you back and nothing better than going on an epic run and just routing everyone on the map hahaha
Quacklive is better than quake champion
yes beacuse it has more maps and more creative and diverse artstyle
Hey, I met you in a match a few days ago! You were absolutely rocking it. I always had trouble explaining to someone why scummy tactics and OP weapons/equipment/perks do not really make you good at the game, but you nailed it in this video - and that made me understand why I've always loved arena shooters.
I grew up playing call of duty, but I matured and started playing arena FPS games. I still enjoy COD very much, and I love the new DMZ, but in games like Quake or UT you really have an even chance - to win, and to learn. God bless Arena FPS.
I'm two years late, but I value your take on the current state of affairs in FPS. I'm new to quake and new to PC gaming having spent my entire life playing console/controller. As a huge Halo fan I always thought Halo had a high skill gap - but then I played quake. I'm currently sitting at about 12 hours playtime QC and I love the game. I appreciate the difficulty, skill gap, steep learning curve. It's evident to me that even with my limited playtime, this game has so much depth. It's a shame as I write this QC is sitting at only 500 player on steam. This is a beautiful game and I appreciate the single dev working on it. I hope Arena FPS can make a comeback and Quake will be on top again.
It's also a breath of fresh air that everyone is using mouse and keyboard. As someone who now plays with MnK, even in Halo which has aim "assist" (aimbot), this is a great feeling to be equal to everyone else. People don't miss shots in Halo and this is true even at the lower levels. It is my observation that even pro players actually miss shots in Quake. That's the way it should be. Missing shots is a part of being imperfect HUMANS. Not legal aim "assist."
Thank you for the video, your stuff is incredible.
The COD subreddit universally complaining about being matched with other players of the same skill level is the funniest and saddest thing ever
Quake is pretty much the bedrock that modern FPS's built from and I wish more people would notice it.
can't get off that lightning gun it's so addicting to hear that repeating ding
Ho my God man. I was searching for someone on the internet how LOVES Quake Champions and finally found it. I will be your new menber FOR LIVE. 😁
I own new era gamers in quake even if they are semi pro in cod and other games... the map control and weapon usage .. its it's another lvl
Im playing quake for about 25 years. Every word you sayed is so f***ing true! Its all about practice!
Especially arena shooters like quake or ut require so much timing, prediction, aiming and moovement from you, no other shooter genre can keep up. Games like CoD or Battlefield are always extremely easy for me because I'm used to quake. I also think that quake ist extremely difficult for casual CoD gamers
I grew up on the original Quake, initially playing without a mouse in multiplayer and still having the ability to do well on pub servers. Quake at the time was fun in part because everybody sucked. It was an era where we were all learning. The original Quake didn't even have an option in the menus to turn on mouse look if I remember correctly... you had to enable it through the console. I remember one time on MPlayer getting into a private game with a clan member and them showing us how they could jump in the air, spin 180 degrees practically instantly and hit a specific target behind them and I remember us being really amazed by that. Today, that's probably a basic skill in the toolbox of the average player.
The skill ceiling for stuff like this has gotten so high that it's no longer any fun at all for most people to play except for the hardcore crowd, and the people that are willing to get their asses kicked for over 1000+ hours trying to learn the game to get to that point. Arena shooters are completely dead to me for this reason. Bless the people that love it, but it's no longer my scene. I came from a scene where people weren't chugging 4 energy drinks a day and spending 18 hours a day 7 days a week playing something like this to "get gud" at it. This kind of thing now is like trying to go to the schoolyard basketball court to play ball and every time you go, NBA players are there to smoke you before you can even dribble the ball twice or take a step to do anything. For people in love with the game of basketball, that's a motivator to dedicate your life to getting better at it. For people that casually like basketball, that's a "yeah forget this bullshit" and they never show up again.
sounds like a You problem.. 😝
Here's my 2 cents because you have a slight prejudice against people who don't enjoy quake like you so I'm going to voice the opposite perspective and hopefully you understand it. CoD is forgiving compared to most shooters sure but you definitely get rewarded for having skill, that aspect is there to a certain degree albeit not much at all compared to quake. It's just not what the game is about , and casual players are who its for. Why are you acting like CoD is the only shooter besides this? Why pick the most casual shooter on the planet and the most skill based shooter and compare them? It doesn't help prove the point, really. You always say quake and "other games" like its just that special and it isn't. There's a lot of other popular shooters that are highly competetive: CSGO, Valorant, Apex.
Wouldn't people playing the game for the first time and losing games be fixed with a matchmaking system like every other game uses? It's not very fun to get shat on for 2 weeks so yeah a casual gamer is just gonna quit obviously, no one should be surprised at that. Your gripes are aimed at casual players existing. And logical people who get beat all the time in a video game they're new to in their leisure time just quit, not because they think the game is bad, they think "I don't want to spend the effort to get good at this and even then just maybe enjoy it when I can just play CoD and enjoy it. Immediate gratification is what most people go for, and why wouldn't they? It's not all about skill or who's the best to some people.
And no, skill based matchmaking systems do not hold you back at all. There have been studies that show that you improve the most when you play against someone SLIGHTLY better than you. Not getting shit stomped in a pub match by some neckbeard who's in his moms basement. Activision is not robbing anyone of that hardcore experience. Consumers are choosing and they choose CoD. If a game is truly hardcore then it makes 100 percent sense that few people play it. An unforgiving hardcore game that everyone plays? That doesn't exist so Quake players should be happy that few people play it because Quake being so hardcore is a majority of what quake players have to say about the game.
I'd just like to say, it's just a different perspective. I'm sure you were aware of all of this before making this video, I just wish you would've have voiced it more. And I've played quake live and quake champions and they were fun :). It's just hard getting friends into it, understandably.
1) COD requires no skill. It used to, but those game mechanics have been completely rubbed from the game. Just listen to XclusiveAce talk about how unfulfilling and unrewarding multiplayer is now.
2) COD is one of the most played and well known games, that's why I picked it. CS:GO is fine. Valorant is popular? That's cute. Apex is an RNG battle royale game. Not the same.
3) You get shit on in Quake because the game itself is hard to play. The basic mechanics are totally different than any other game on the market, so it doesn't matter. New players have a learning curve and it has nothing to do with the players playing the game.
4) My gripes are not aimed at casual players existing. My gripes are aimed at companies milking players for every dollar and cent they can get instead of actually providing a gaming experience that is rewarding and fulfilling. (Go back to point #1.) COD is one of the worst case examples of this, hence my constant reference to COD.
5) COD doesn't have SBMM. COD has DDA, which literally has been proven to compress the skill gap. This means that actual talent, skill, and growth is IMPOSSIBLE at the game, because you will be held back by the actual algorithm to ensure you get as close to a 1KDR as they can manage. This is not old news, nor is it conspiracy theory. It's a real-life, bonafide Activation patent. Use Google. It absolutely robs great players of a great experience, because the game dynamically stops them from having fun. Again-back to point #1 with even the biggest COD-lover XclusiveAce having to admit the games "SBMM" is not fun, nor is COD challenging.
6) SBMM exists in QC and it works as you described-you get put in with slightly better players. However, this is not what COD does.
7) Immediate gratification has been created in gamers by companies to make money. I remember the days of the 90s with hard-as-shit games. You either figured it out or you didn't. Somehow we had the patience back then to get our asses kicked more and stick it out. Admittedly, kids don't want to lose anymore, they want to pay-to-win or pay-to-feel-like-they-are-good. This speaks more to a bigger problem with the emotional/mental fortitude of people these days... however, it's still pretty messed up how companies use this to make billions of dollars off of people.
8) Consumers do choose to play COD-they absolutely choose for the right to pay ridiculous prices for a broken game, with 1/3rd of the content that COD used to launch with 10 years ago, and then complain about it for an entire year cycle until the next COD game comes out where they do it again. Absolutely asinine.
9) I voiced my opinion as I wanted to. I'm tired of COD games, I'm tired of the "instant gratification" culture, I'm tired of games that literally fuck me because of their algorithms. I want to win or lose based on MY decisions and MY performance-not because of a scorestreak that somebody just waited to get for 3 minutes and then the DDA in COD decided to screw with my aim, my ping, and my health. That's bullshit.
10) Quake is an extremely fun game, and you said it yourself: it's hard to get friends to play because they won't immediately be great at it......... because games like COD have conditioned them to expect that.
@@0d1nnquake14 To say CoD is no skill is so dumb man. Low skill yes but bro you have to fkn aim to kill lmao. Valorant is super popular. Go check twitch viewers. Apex is kinda rng yeah but a good player with white armor is still gonna dumpster a bad one with purple. I mean idk your points are just too extreme. Just be realistic and understanding for a second and stop going full boomer. And yes, Modern Warfare uses SBMM. You don't even know what your talking about.
The old CoDs were great though.
In the end, being a quake fan doesnt make other people dumb or wrong. They just see it differently. Just enjoy it and be happy. No need to say anything against CoD players as long as you understand their perspective.
I get what you mean that a challenging game is fun, but you don't need to go elitist mode. This negative talk towards the people who don't play quake is just gatekeeping them out of wanting to play it cuz there is a bunch of closed minded boomers (not you) telling them theyre not good enough instead of actually communicating nicely that the enjoyment of the game comes from mastery and challenge
Quake/AFPS players are still wasting their time figuring out why people don't play it. You don't need a video or any theory as to why....this genre is simply archaic. For the general population, there are much better FPS games to play and AFPS happens to not be on that list. I also see people parroting each other saying something like "new generation everyone is a winner" etc. what do you mean? Games like Overwatch and CS:GO are extremely popular and its clear cut who is and is not winning in ranked at least....what are you on about?
Archaic? You mean like Counter-Strike, a game that has had zero major game changes since .... the beginning? Are you dumb or something? Overwatch is boring, CS:GO is boring. It's popular because they are team games that are easy for casual players to play. What are you on about?
Counter-Strike can be considered a worn and tested formula...but the big difference here is it has stuck. Though, CS has actually gone through quite a bit of modernization compared to quake (Q1-QL). CS:GO is pretty much a testimate to how to PROPERLY update a formula to make it fresh again. Quake Champions, to its credit, did make an attempt but really fell face flat. Why? Because the game is just not good. Period. They did not appeal to a lot of veteran fans or new fans...its in a limbo of mediocrity. You want to play a good hero shooter? TF2/OW You want to play a good AFPS? Quake Live. QC does not mark either of these categories well. You can dislike OW/CS:GO and its completely fair to call them boring. Also, yes, the team formula is apart of the reason that the world decided them>quake. Quake simply does not have good team modes compared to popular games today which optimize team modes to the fullest.
Now onto the biggest point you guys try to make. The popular games are only popular because they take no skill and quake is not popular because it is beyond other games in skill. False. Like...really? How long do you think it takes for an average fps player to get the hang of quake? From my experience between 1-40 hours is what basically what it takes to become quake literate. It's a simple game: Simple movement, simple weapon play, simple maps....its the baseline that online FPS games have been building on since 99....on top of that most people who play quake, just like any other game, are not even good enough to really contribute enough of a factor that makes the game hard for new players. If you want to look at the top of the food chain (professionals), it becomes more obvious that games have gotten more complex as they have come. You don't believe me? ( ruclips.net/video/LM3sS4WSSKQ/видео.html ) This is mainly on aiming mechanics but really also applies to movement and the games in general as well. So...what are YOU on about? I don't know if this is an ego issue or you are simply proud to be ignorant.
I love area FPS games, I love Quake, I love UT, I love Goldeneye. They are not ever coming back to world scale popularity...neither are they going to die completely. It's a niche. Putting out videos like this is meaningless and provides no unique insight. You don't need to theory craft to realize why quake titles get sub 1000 players daily. Making up reasons that imply other games are casual and no skill...I don't get it. I played almost all the games I have invested time into at a pretty high level, it just makes it obvious when people complain or argue about skill caps in games that they don't comprehend games at a high level at all. This whole idea of other games are easy and bad and quake is not popular because its too hard dont even play high level quake and just jump on the bandwagon to justify yourself. Most of you are not even GOOD at quake xD
What quake is good at is tight knit communities and loads of stupid fun. I do also like the esports aspect but it does not represent 99% of the actual players.
P.S You are not helping your case to new players by scoffing at them in the first place. How stupid can you be?
also to comment about what you're saying I agree 100%. I remember playing Quake live 10 years ago, we had Advanced level servers, and you can tell these guys were veterans from q3 days and before. Every now and then some noob would come in the server thinkin they were 'advanced'.. and they look liked a little jack rabbit that just got thrown into the lions den. They'll either leave in couple mins, otherwise we'll just vote that person out. The disparity in skill levels was very transparent. Ah i miss those days
2 things that I would add on, I'm a veteran quake player and I would say 2 major problems which contribute to people not wanting to play it are the people who have been playing these games for decades that continue to play and will wreck you once you meet them in game (I do not include myself in that). Also the launch of quake champions was massively botched and neutered its numbers for the foreseeable future. The community had a chance to grow and was killed by a problem ridden launch.
QC at launch was horrible. The champion balance was atrocious, completely true. The state of QC right now is how it should have been in the beginning, but that's how it goes when you try to experiment with champions like that.
The counter-point I'd give to you about going up against veterans is... if I am playing against a person who's played the game for so long, why would I expect to beat him? Would I get into a boxing ring with Mike Tyson thinking I'm going to show him the business? The ego on people to get so offended that they will get slapped around a bit while learning the ropes is silly.
Meanwhile, these folks have zero problem dropping $70 on the next iteration of broken CoD, complaining about bugs, broken weapons, broken challenges, etc., but want to turn their noses up against playing skilled people in Quake... I don't get it :D
@@0d1nnquake14 I agree it's not the veterans fault for being good, and I will say I'm at fault as well for slapping some new players around proverbially (though I'm not nearly as good as others), but my point was not that inherently them being better was a problem, but more that it becomes a turn off when the average player seems able to wipe the floor with ANY new player.
It's that massive skill gap that makes the challenge seem insurmountable to new players where other games have what I would call a pop-in-and-play where no feature of the game is needing so badly to be learned that the game is unreachable seemingly. Though a better tutorial system, or more standard matchmaking when it came out with rank imposed matchmaking could have easily solved the problem I think.
Qc is genius. I played ow and other commercial arena shooters but quake is in my opinion the soulslike of the arena fps games. Truly a masterpiece
I mainly watch pro Quake & don't play it, but i couldn't agree more w/ this video. As a CSGO player i find it insane when people have over 2,000 matches on Faceit, and are still level 3. How have you not learned a single thing from 2,000 matches???