No, Cairne was already dead by the time this took place. Cairne challenged Garrosh because he believed him responsible for an extremely brutal attack on a meeting of druids. The true culprits, though, was the Twilight's Hammer.
Absolutely, and Cairne knew which route he was going for and the risks. He slapped a Warchief in front of hos advisors in the Throne Room, of course Garrosh cant just let that pass.
I hate Blizzard so much for ruining this great character... all the character growth Garrosh had during Wrath, he was a stupid ignorant warrior who wanted to do nothing more than battle, but grew up and learnt a lot about honor and mercy because of his time spent with Saurfang and Thrall, he was supposed to be the PERFECT warchief for the horde, everything the horde stands for: glory, honor, war, he was the most badass orc ever! They didn't even have to make him the "good guy" fucking leave him as a bloodthirsty savage orc but jesus how can he talk about honor and shit and the next expansion turn into a racist war criminal who suddenly thought its ok to forget about his warrior roots and traditions and use dark magic? wtf is this
I know right? Blizzard really screwed up with how they handled the lore after Wrath, let alone with just Garrosh's. But I feel you. They took an interesting character and just turned him into a cartoonish orc Hitler.
Garrosh used to be sich a great guy, what the hell happened!? I'm usually always behind Blizz, but I really didn't like the decision to make him a villain.
They needed a villain for Mists but they couldn't possibly make the Alliance the bad guys, so they took the generic "Horde are the villains" route and it looks to be the same for the upcoming expansion as well. So sad.
Blizzard didn't just decide to make him a villain in Mists, look at the Troll starting zone in cata. Vol'jin knew and predicted everything that would happen in MoP. That tells me Blizzard knew the direction they were taking him.
did any of you actually do that senario? garrosh went OUT OF HIS WAY to warn theramore that the bomb was coming, and allowed them time to evacuate civilians
@@gokublack8342 oh really? In Cataclysm, he despised the use of bombardement in Stonetalon Mountain (because it killed the children too), and in Pandaria he suddenly approved it? Military target or not, that was not an honorable move.
@@Sikkeskatona He didn't approve it in this situation because there was 0 reason to bomb it was literally just to kill innocents and Crom knew that there were only innocents there the innocents that died at Theramore are on the Alliances hands not his
Yes and no, actually. He had good intentions at the start, but everyone was such an asshole to him he had no choice but to basically shut off everyone and trust only himself, feeding into his own evergrowing self-doubt that drove him to commit despicable acts. If everyone (Thrall in particular) were less of an asshole maybe we would've kept having the good guy Garrosh.
@@mafiablokes That was the worst part. They killed a potentially good Horde leader WHO COULD LEARN. His questlines and talks with Saurfang in Northrend was not for nothing at first, yet Blizzard shat on that.
@@hunlepto2239 I dunno, I preferred him as an insane maniac. I found it more engaging than just another “honourable leader who tries to fight their savage nature” that the Horde was full of up to that point
Everybody wanders about his turn into a villain. Dude, the guy was corrupted by the Sha of Pride, the most powerful Sha of the deceased Y'Shaarj. Even the most noble of man would fell prey to it's damned influence. He became corrupted long before finding the heart of Y'Shaarj itself.
Ikr? I was loyal to him until near the very end of MoP because I always remembered this quest, but it was clear he was forced through the biggest 180 degree turn I've seen in character alignment in MMO history.
'Cuz they have hired some shitheads who hasn't paid much attention to lore before they started working there and that is why we are witnesses to such drastic Character change as with Garrosh. If they really wanted some villan in known characters they should have choose Sylvanas as she is the one who is creating a "new plauge" and is corrupting Lordareon lands so it is more "accessible' for her Forsaken (and so far in Legion I'm starting to think that next last raid meaby not in Legion but someday will be Sige of Undercity with Sylvanas as a main boss) too bad that they FORCED death opon Garrosh who was a great character, true Orc but not some mindless psychopath as they made him...
That's what Sylvanas haters would say. I wish that varian would have been an enemy. But he is too naive and child to be an enemy right? Because he has seen no true pain himself compared to Sylvanas. Don't even mentions his fathers death before his eyes. That's no pain to himself. And what did he do when lothat fought for that? He just sat in Lorthaeron Castle while Lothar fought to his death. But Sylvanas fought for her soul and freed herself and took over the scourges in lordaeron from the dreadlords and arthas. Don't say such bad things about such a great character
I love how idiots always cry about Sylvanas being evil, while if you actually pay attention, she's no more evil than anyone else in the game. Legion is the best example how much she cares about the Horde, even though most still not welcome the Forsaken with open arms...
@Andr286 It's "slayed", not "slained". Also, for those who aren't Lore buffs, the whole duel to the death thing was Garrosh trying to bluff Cairne out of challenging him for leadership of the Horde via trial by combat. Admittedly, it didn't work, but Garrosh didn't really have much choice in coming through on his little upping the ante. Besides, Cairne would have probably given him a far more serious beating, maybe even killed him, if the Grimtotems hadn't poisoned him.
To think this was actually a mistake in his characterization and the team never intended him to be so rad. Ah well. Even the worst bossman can have his moments.
It is funny reading the garrosh fanboy comments saying how the MoP garrosh was a 180 character turn around, when what we see here is the outlier. In Wrath, Garrosh wants to destroy an alliance port to gain a foothold on water, he attacks Varian Wrynn in Dalaran (who is neutral during this time) when the bigger threat of Yogg-saron is about to be freed, he insults Tirion and the tournament to his face, blames the alliance for Jaraxxus even when Wizzlebang did not act under the alliance. In the intro experience to twilight highlands, Garrosh orders his air support to attack alliance ships, and which his air fleet is soon attacked by the twilight dragonflight and Deathwing. Shall I continue?
Oh, please, over four expansions you think that's all he is? His deeds at Icecrown where he's one of the biggest imaginable reasons that the crusade against the scrouge even won, and all you can think about is what a petulent child he is? You could list all of the stupid shit I did in my life and it'd sound bad, when really, you're not reading as in between the lines as you think you are.
Theramore was a military target, as the nation was aiding alliance troops in their campaigns in Stonetalon and southern barrens. What Krom'gar blew up was a druid school that was also training a tauren, who was cliffwalkers son. The method in which Garrosh destroyed Theramore is horrible, but it is completely different then what is seen here
I wouldn't consider replying a year late, but since you did it as well i guess it's right. In my home country, there was a war going on, and with some big cities being part of the warzone, it is obvious military would have bases nearby. Those cities were bombed both randomly and with a goal in mind. Do you know what certain NATO spokesman called hundreds of civillian deaths? "A COLLATERAL DAMAGE, a cost to defeat an evil." You don't blow up cities with weapons of mass destruction, you storm them with soldiers, everything else can be considered an act of war crimes.
He was still pretty evil, TBH...you're going to tell me that the Horde didn't kill a single civilian in their rampage throughout Ashenvale and elsewhere? I remember a night elf who joined Fandral b/c Malfurion couldn't protect their family from being killed by the Horde...
@@feeblecursedone2540 Taurajo was a military target. And the alliance allowed the civilians to escape before they destroyed the town. Baine clearly stated this in tides of war. Did the horde provide these luxuries when they used WOMD and chemical weapons to bomb Gilneas and Southshore??????
@@KerryRasch The B-elves worked with naga (servants of Azshara and the old Gods) so Garithos had a right to despise them (even though none were executed) Garithos was never part of the official alliance. He was part of the alliance resistance which had a small group of humans, blood elves and dwarves. Also, do you really want to talk about genocide??? The old horde committed genocide on the Draenei and wiped out 80% of the population. Then, they invaded Azeroth, laid waste to Stormwind and committed genocide on SW humans. Then, they attempted another genocide on Lordaeron and Khaz Modan (and failed). Then in BFA, we have your morally grey whorechief fire bomb a civilian population that was home to thousands of innocents. So tell me, which faction is the genocidal one? That's right. The whorde.
It's kind of pity that Blizzard felt the need to assault Garrosh while duel wielding both the Derp Bat and the Villain bat over the past couple of years. This Garrosh could have been really really interesting if they had stuck it out with the character. Aggressive against the Alliance, but still honorable. Instead now he's the one dropping bombs on innocents and slaughtering children.
I hope that Blizzard shows Garrosh in a more positive light in the next expansion. I'm not happy with how they went about with him, but what's done is done. I'll tackle that low-level quest chain just to see this!
So how is, in Wrath, Garrosh wants to destroy an alliance port to gain a foothold on water, he attacks Varian Wrynn in Dalaran (who is neutral during this time) when the bigger threat of Yogg-saron is about to be freed, he insults Tirion and the tournament to his face, blames the alliance for Jaraxxus even when Wizzlebang did not act under the alliance. In the intro experience to twilight highlands, Garrosh orders his air support to attack alliance ships, and which his air fleet is soon attacked by the twilight dragonflight and Deathwing matching his character here?
this has nothing to do with alliance stuff, the druids were no fighting force, nor were they giving the alliances valuable resources, all your other cases were possible economic and militant risks wich garrosh wanted to get rid of, it is that easy
Thanks for ruining Garrosh,Blizzard.
Krom'gar sounds like and acts like Starscream.
If I could rewrite lore, garrosh wouldn't become evil
You would've probably done at least five times better of a job with the lore than the current idiots at Blizzard.
No, Cairne was already dead by the time this took place. Cairne challenged Garrosh because he believed him responsible for an extremely brutal attack on a meeting of druids. The true culprits, though, was the Twilight's Hammer.
Absolutely, and Cairne knew which route he was going for and the risks. He slapped a Warchief in front of hos advisors in the Throne Room, of course Garrosh cant just let that pass.
I hate Blizzard so much for ruining this great character... all the character growth Garrosh had during Wrath, he was a stupid ignorant warrior who wanted to do nothing more than battle, but grew up and learnt a lot about honor and mercy because of his time spent with Saurfang and Thrall, he was supposed to be the PERFECT warchief for the horde, everything the horde stands for: glory, honor, war, he was the most badass orc ever! They didn't even have to make him the "good guy" fucking leave him as a bloodthirsty savage orc but jesus how can he talk about honor and shit and the next expansion turn into a racist war criminal who suddenly thought its ok to forget about his warrior roots and traditions and use dark magic? wtf is this
I know right?
Blizzard really screwed up with how they handled the lore after Wrath, let alone with just Garrosh's. But I feel you.
They took an interesting character and just turned him into a cartoonish orc Hitler.
Garrosh used to be sich a great guy, what the hell happened!?
I'm usually always behind Blizz, but I really didn't like the decision to make him a villain.
They needed a villain for Mists but they couldn't possibly make the Alliance the bad guys, so they took the generic "Horde are the villains" route and it looks to be the same for the upcoming expansion as well. So sad.
Also there were multiple teams working on the questlines and the team that did stonetalon didn't communicate very much with other teams.
Blizzard didn't just decide to make him a villain in Mists, look at the Troll starting zone in cata. Vol'jin knew and predicted everything that would happen in MoP. That tells me Blizzard knew the direction they were taking him.
@@8mmkyle865 Vol'jin literally treatened to kill a legitimate Warchief of the Horde.
Because he was hated by the fanbase at the time, so they made him evil, a decision I do not blame them for
I like how some of Saurfang rubbed off onto Garrosh.
Too bad Blizz decided: Yo man fuck Garrosh.
I dont know why they changed Garrosh to a super edgelord villian when this Garrosh was a nice mirror to Varian.
"How dare you use a bomb to kill innocent individuals? That was MY idea! Now I'm gonna seem unoriginal!"
TheTyrantDragon innocent ? He killed the alliance army by trapping them. Most of people in this "peaceful" city was soldier of the alliance.
Theramore was a neutral city.
Calcifar PantsOwl it was, until varian used the city to pressure durotar.
Theramore wasn't innocent
did any of you actually do that senario? garrosh went OUT OF HIS WAY to warn theramore that the bomb was coming, and allowed them time to evacuate civilians
Back when Garrosh still had honor.
Trevor E. he always had honor
@@mryoshiyoshi451 not in Pandaria...
@@Sikkeskatona Theremore was a military target you cant compare that to this
@@gokublack8342 oh really? In Cataclysm, he despised the use of bombardement in Stonetalon Mountain (because it killed the children too), and in Pandaria he suddenly approved it?
Military target or not, that was not an honorable move.
@@Sikkeskatona He didn't approve it in this situation because there was 0 reason to bomb it was literally just to kill innocents and Crom knew that there were only innocents there the innocents that died at Theramore are on the Alliances hands not his
can we all agree that Garrosh was actually a good guy and everyone around him was loony?
No.
Yes
Yes Garrosh did nothing wrong. Lok Tar Ogar!
Yes and no, actually.
He had good intentions at the start, but everyone was such an asshole to him he had no choice but to basically shut off everyone and trust only himself, feeding into his own evergrowing self-doubt that drove him to commit despicable acts. If everyone (Thrall in particular) were less of an asshole maybe we would've kept having the good guy Garrosh.
With Blizzard's writing, that wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility.
I liked this Garrosh a lot better than that crazy bastard we got in MoP
BadatStuff That crazy bastard was the best part of MoP
@@mafiablokes That was the worst part. They killed a potentially good Horde leader WHO COULD LEARN. His questlines and talks with Saurfang in Northrend was not for nothing at first, yet Blizzard shat on that.
@@hunlepto2239 I dunno, I preferred him as an insane maniac. I found it more engaging than just another “honourable leader who tries to fight their savage nature” that the Horde was full of up to that point
"Hellscream's eyes are always upon you."
*3 days later Oprah is on and garrosh is standing in the background*
Everybody wanders about his turn into a villain. Dude, the guy was corrupted by the Sha of Pride, the most powerful Sha of the deceased Y'Shaarj. Even the most noble of man would fell prey to it's damned influence. He became corrupted long before finding the heart of Y'Shaarj itself.
He bombed Theramore before Pandaria was discovered though
This Garrosh and WoD Garrosh...wtf Blizz, just why??
Ikr? I was loyal to him until near the very end of MoP because I always remembered this quest, but it was clear he was forced through the biggest 180 degree turn I've seen in character alignment in MMO history.
Tbh if anything of Garrosh is close to this, its his dialog with Thrall during their "mak'gora"
Because muh Anduin and his holy bones
One of the most awesome quest lines in WoW imo. Loved it, Too bad about Masha Cliffwalker tho :(
Sylvannas should have learn from this.
THIS....
I have no words for how epic it felt when I first completed this quest.
I think I had a wowgasm.
You either die as Anti-Hero...
Or live long enough to be retconned into a Stupid Villain next expansion.
3:19 lol that orc death noise. Apparently he died before even hitting the ground
Probably shit himself before hitting the ground too.
...why did Blizzard make Garrosh to be a villain in Warlords of Draenor?
'Cuz they have hired some shitheads who hasn't paid much attention to lore before they started working there and that is why we are witnesses to such drastic Character change as with Garrosh. If they really wanted some villan in known characters they should have choose Sylvanas as she is the one who is creating a "new plauge" and is corrupting Lordareon lands so it is more "accessible' for her Forsaken (and so far in Legion I'm starting to think that next last raid meaby not in Legion but someday will be Sige of Undercity with Sylvanas as a main boss) too bad that they FORCED death opon Garrosh who was a great character, true Orc but not some mindless psychopath as they made him...
Ohvist Small in MOP before rofl
That's what Sylvanas haters would say. I wish that varian would have been an enemy. But he is too naive and child to be an enemy right? Because he has seen no true pain himself compared to Sylvanas. Don't even mentions his fathers death before his eyes. That's no pain to himself. And what did he do when lothat fought for that? He just sat in Lorthaeron Castle while Lothar fought to his death. But Sylvanas fought for her soul and freed herself and took over the scourges in lordaeron from the dreadlords and arthas. Don't say such bad things about such a great character
I love how idiots always cry about Sylvanas being evil, while if you actually pay attention, she's no more evil than anyone else in the game. Legion is the best example how much she cares about the Horde, even though most still not welcome the Forsaken with open arms...
Well actually Sylvanas is using the others for her own business
Do not forget that Hellscream's eyes always upon you.
Kromgar is bad for blowing up innocents so garosh throws him off a cliff
Also garosh
Theramore 🧨🔥
Blizzard screwed Garrosh over. I can't forgive them for ruining such a great character. He should still be warchief.
thank you sooooo much for this vid! whilst i was watching the tree get nuked i slipped and died, missing the whole conversation
Let honor guide you, Oprah Winfrey
This quest, while awesome at the time, did NOT age well...
more jsut the future content just ignored his character
Intentionally or otherwise, Krom'gar's voice and mannerisms do sound an awful lot like Starscream
@Andr286 It's "slayed", not "slained". Also, for those who aren't Lore buffs, the whole duel to the death thing was Garrosh trying to bluff Cairne out of challenging him for leadership of the Horde via trial by combat. Admittedly, it didn't work, but Garrosh didn't really have much choice in coming through on his little upping the ante.
Besides, Cairne would have probably given him a far more serious beating, maybe even killed him, if the Grimtotems hadn't poisoned him.
Both watching this from the other side of the conflict and Garrosh's eventual "developments" cause this scene to carry a certain poignancy.
The first 10 seconds of this video killed my ears..
*shiver hellscreams eyes are always upon me * T.T PERVERT!!!!
Garrosh did nothing wrong
Garrosh actually LISTENED to VAROK. Varok should have stayed by Garrosh's side.
well sadly our best warchief was going a little insane
@Teletubbiesfromhell I doubt it. Krom'gar's forces are loyal to the Horde first, he was only their commander.
To think this was actually a mistake in his characterization and the team never intended him to be so rad.
Ah well. Even the worst bossman can have his moments.
@Tzilandi I agree, I read The Shattering, and Cairne totally would've won that fight if Magatha Grimototem hadn't poisoned Garrosh's ax.
It is funny reading the garrosh fanboy comments saying how the MoP garrosh was a 180 character turn around, when what we see here is the outlier. In Wrath, Garrosh wants to destroy an alliance port to gain a foothold on water, he attacks Varian Wrynn in Dalaran (who is neutral during this time) when the bigger threat of Yogg-saron is about to be freed, he insults Tirion and the tournament to his face, blames the alliance for Jaraxxus even when Wizzlebang did not act under the alliance. In the intro experience to twilight highlands, Garrosh orders his air support to attack alliance ships, and which his air fleet is soon attacked by the twilight dragonflight and Deathwing. Shall I continue?
the necessary evil to make the horde great again! FUUOOO THE HUUUODE!!
Oh, please, over four expansions you think that's all he is? His deeds at Icecrown where he's one of the biggest imaginable reasons that the crusade against the scrouge even won, and all you can think about is what a petulent child he is? You could list all of the stupid shit I did in my life and it'd sound bad, when really, you're not reading as in between the lines as you think you are.
I just realized this comment is a year old.
He did nothing wrong
Yea garrosh is a cool and honorable guy "after seeing siege of ogrimar"
Garrosh wtf happened
Old gods
Fun Fact: Garrosh and Laxus off Fairy Tail have the same VA
Holy crap, there is one instance of Garroshes decency? I guess he said fuck it after this lol xD
"Am I a murderer, Krom'gar?"
After the Fall of Theramore... I'mma have to say yes.
Theramore was a military target, as the nation was aiding alliance troops in their campaigns in Stonetalon and southern barrens. What Krom'gar blew up was a druid school that was also training a tauren, who was cliffwalkers son.
The method in which Garrosh destroyed Theramore is horrible, but it is completely different then what is seen here
Agreed.
I wouldn't consider replying a year late, but since you did it as well i guess it's right. In my home country, there was a war going on, and with some big cities being part of the warzone, it is obvious military would have bases nearby. Those cities were bombed both randomly and with a goal in mind. Do you know what certain NATO spokesman called hundreds of civillian deaths? "A COLLATERAL DAMAGE, a cost to defeat an evil." You don't blow up cities with weapons of mass destruction, you storm them with soldiers, everything else can be considered an act of war crimes.
@@Joxim00 but he did not kill civilians.
I really hope that Grom kills Thrall in the end of Warlord of Draenor.
Blizzard turned Garrosh into a maniac, not Thrall.
@StivenMKD
IMO, he sounds vicious and how he physically appears to sound.
1:51: Am I murderer, Krom'gar?
Well, there *is* that incident with Cairne Bloodhoof...
his weapon was poisoned without his knowledge, he didnt mean to kill him at all :/
@Beriorn That was a formal duel.
He was still pretty evil, TBH...you're going to tell me that the Horde didn't kill a single civilian in their rampage throughout Ashenvale and elsewhere? I remember a night elf who joined Fandral b/c Malfurion couldn't protect their family from being killed by the Horde...
Taurajo
True but there's a difference between getting caught in the cross hairs and directly kill civilians
@@feeblecursedone2540
Taurajo was a military target. And the alliance allowed the civilians to escape before they destroyed the town. Baine clearly stated this in tides of war.
Did the horde provide these luxuries when they used WOMD and chemical weapons to bomb Gilneas and Southshore??????
@@KerryRasch
The B-elves worked with naga (servants of Azshara and the old Gods) so Garithos had a right to despise them (even though none were executed) Garithos was never part of the official alliance. He was part of the alliance resistance which had a small group of humans, blood elves and dwarves.
Also, do you really want to talk about genocide???
The old horde committed genocide on the Draenei and wiped out 80% of the population. Then, they invaded Azeroth, laid waste to Stormwind and committed genocide on SW humans. Then, they attempted another genocide on Lordaeron and Khaz Modan (and failed).
Then in BFA, we have your morally grey whorechief fire bomb a civilian population that was home to thousands of innocents. So tell me, which faction is the genocidal one?
That's right. The whorde.
The night elves fucking deserved it. They destroyed Azeroth and anyone would've been right to genocide them.
It's kind of pity that Blizzard felt the need to assault Garrosh while duel wielding both the Derp Bat and the Villain bat over the past couple of years. This Garrosh could have been really really interesting if they had stuck it out with the character. Aggressive against the Alliance, but still honorable. Instead now he's the one dropping bombs on innocents and slaughtering children.
End of Cataclysm Garrosh be like: Fuck Character Development!
garrosh is a hero
I miss Garrosh. Sylvanas fucking sucks!
Garrosh was against killing children....even night elf children....wtf happened?
Lazy writing
Annnd, then MoP happened... RiP Hellscream!
I've gained some respect for Garrosh. I still think he has much to learn... And he's racist... But at least he's honorable.
@Beriorn garrosh don't murder cairne, magata grim totem was
Maybe was Thrall speech and they change it with WoD... Because this make no sense!
no one kill oprah winfrey XD
Seeing the Goblin stand there during this whole thing cracked me up, lol...
I hope that Blizzard shows Garrosh in a more positive light in the next expansion. I'm not happy with how they went about with him, but what's done is done.
I'll tackle that low-level quest chain just to see this!
Spoiler alert, he died in Warlords of draenor
This comment did not age well.
WHAT THE FUCK?
Oprahwinfrey lmao
in the end garrosh was the donald trump of wow.. the necessary evil to make the horde great again..
TheProBro so Trump is gonna use some chinese artifact to empower the navy seal and then fortify Washington in the next patch
Wellshem siege of white house
So... out... of character....
+Nagoragama Not even a little. Blizzard just decided they had to make him evil.
So how is, in Wrath, Garrosh wants to destroy an alliance port to gain a foothold on water, he attacks Varian Wrynn in Dalaran (who is neutral during this time) when the bigger threat of Yogg-saron is about to be freed, he insults Tirion and the tournament to his face, blames the alliance for Jaraxxus even when Wizzlebang did not act under the alliance. In the intro experience to twilight highlands, Garrosh orders his air support to attack alliance ships, and which his air fleet is soon attacked by the twilight dragonflight and Deathwing matching his character here?
this has nothing to do with alliance stuff, the druids were no fighting force, nor were they giving the alliances valuable resources, all your other cases were possible economic and militant risks wich garrosh wanted to get rid of, it is that easy
so is this quest the reason why cairne challenged garrosh?