Were Climbing Boots a Jagex conspiracy?
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
- In 2010, Jagex increased the price of Climbing Boots by just over 35,000% - causing the second largest price spike in RuneScape history.
But in the hours after the update, news started to spread that a controversial merchanting clan had received news of the update the days prior - and profited heavily.
Did Jagex really leak the price spike ahead of time?
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I have to say, this was one of those things I always assumed was a Jagex inside job, it was just one of those common knowledge things for me. But this makes one of my favourite stories from Runescape history, and flips it on its head. So cool!
As always, an exceptional video. This is, I admit, far after I'd stopped playing (was always more of a classic player, but have an on-again off-again relationship with oldschool), but it is the type of thing you still see people murmur about every now and again. At this point, you've destroyed lots of misinformation, from all eras of the game. It's been really cool to see just how much your content has evolved.
honestly, the idea that they converted climbing boots to rock-climbing boots just sounds like one hell of a lapse in judgement. would have probably been seen as a waste of an update and only added for the sake of ulterior motives, like Dealaga (mostly to deal w/Dragon Scimitar merchant clans) and Butterchurns (probably anchored most of the cheese/butter from culinaromancer chest).
this. so dumb. just make a new item!!!. seems SUS!
The rs community really hasn't changed in a decade
Hi hanannie
And it won't in the next decade
Bruh
Bruh
Neither has the sparkle in your eyes but no one's rioting about that
i gotta say, your channel is miles above and beyond any other RS channel (to be fair any channel) the amount of time and effort you throw into these videos are insane and it truly shows. great job man, and i’m happy i got to see you grow. keep the awesome videos coming
Thank you so much!
Why not take it the other direction? Make all climbing boots have no strength bonus, release the new rock climbing boots? That causes people to lose money sure, but the value shift would do far less damage. Going from 200 gp to zero is much less than going from 200 to 75,000.
They could have done lots of things. They could have just added the shop interface and let the market sort itself out and not added the new boots
I remember smokin mils, probably before they became big. I was in their FC while we pumped up dragon darts for like two weeks. The day before we were scheduled to sell, however, I dumped all of mine because I wasn't going to be the idiot holding the bags. This caused a sell off at 3am with all the other people in the FC and the head mods of the chat were the ones that woke up holding the bags lmfao. Easiest 20M I made in my life.
Bro, merching the merchers back in those days was so fun.
your channel is insane man, the amount of knowledge with things I had no clue about but only wondered as a young runescape noob.
Thank you! Really glad you're enjoying the knowledge. It's super fun for me to learn about these topics as I research them too. I've been about since 2004 and are told the same stories as everyone else, so digging into them and finding the truth is mega exciting
@@rswillmissit Yeah we always knew there was some crazy stuff going on behind the scenes, but it's cool to get all the backstory on most of the stuff.
Logdotzip was having an affair with my father at the time, Mod Mark disapproved of this and therefore the ban was placed on him
Oh ok that checks out
@@nahCmeR it’s true, it tore apart my family. And other things…
@@LongManLarry so sorry. I feel terrible for your family:(
@@TheSektor47 thanks sektor I appreciate the kind words, It was a very traumatizing event in my childhood
I bet you were the funniest guy on Facebook back in the day
I still recall this event quite clearly (and also recall how back then I wished I had a time-machine so that I could warn my younger self about these boots... because clearly I had missed out on a great opportunity). The old climbing boots weren't just used for PK'ing, but were also seen as a 'poor mans dragon boots', as they gave a very similar amount of strength boost. I still remember how I used them during Corporeal Beast masses.
Back then... GP was still very valuable and not many had very large cash-stacks, so to suddenly see these items be artificially increased in price was... just flabbergasting.
It just didn't 'feel' right, and Jagex claims regarding the fact that nobody really got rich off of this just felt... 'off'. And then you indeed had the whole 'muted LogDotZip' thing happening which made everything feel so much shadier.
Especially these days we know that Jagex doesn't always have the correct information, which we 'think' they'd have. (i.e. supposed fake item recoveries for insane amounts of water battlestaffs/other valuable items, or people abusing bugs with the Ambassador) It all just leads me to not trust Jagex's word.
I would buy bitcoin 😂
climbing boots were always used for pking
ignore this read ur comment wrong
It's like you didn't watch the conclusion of the video where Jagex were pretty much right about everything and that the "distrust" was fake and blown out of proportion.
@@626lancer You're assuming they were telling the truth, and that's a lot of trust to place in a company that has been wrong/lied about plenty of things before.
Your channel is quickly becoming one of my favourite rs channels. Keep up the great content!
Remember the Jiblix videos? A lot of those bots were very likely indirectly funded by insiders at Jagex tipping off the mega billionaires, gambling clans, etc. at the time. Regardless of whether Climbing Boots was one of those updates, it was obvious to us that inside tippers had been in the community for a long time. It wasn't just this one time or a select few people. I wouldn't be surprised if it was still happening, especially with Old School.
Fun Random info. And something I used when I got back into osrs. Spinning flax to bowstring is an AMAZING way for new players to to take any small amount of money and turn it into a fortune if they put the time in. You can buy flax for 1-3gp and sell bowstrings for 100gp instantly most the time. Gp per hour is horrible. But return on investment is insane.
My story starting osrs is As soon as I hit level 15 crafting I spent all my money on flax, spun them out and repeated until I was at a good enough crafting level to create jade or topaz amulets. Used the money to get runes to get get my magic up to enchant them. Made for a fantastic start to a character. Especially when I went to pvp worlds a bit later for free loot lol. Combat level was like 28 or something, i think I only had like 14-15 hp at the time so I was an easy kill. Until I got my runes out at like 62 magic i just started blasting. Good times.
This is crazy. I've heard the climbing boots mentioned in the past, but hearing Logdotzip's name mentioned here made me lose it, I had no idea he used to make videos about runescape
damn this brings back memories.. this is the exact update that made me quit, i literally had like 1-3 climbing boots so i didnt profit from it at all while i saw everyone including friends getting so filthy rich from it, got me demotivated to continue playing
Nice reason to quit.
Okay Jordol van de Kiekeboe.
Wie gaat er nu met zijn echte naam op internet, dan ben je niet goed.
You also missed out on bitcoin, now ragequit from life.
stupid reason, don't expect sympathy.
relatable
@@scrubplaceholder6216 Wacht tot je het concept van sociale media ontdekt, the horror.
logdotzip becoming a youtuber with over 4 million subs was the coolest part of the video... very well put together and informative video
You know the climbing boots leak was serious business when 12 years later Jagex is still paying RUclipsrs to cover it up.
Man I love these videos, I don’t play anymore but this is probably my favorite rs content channel.
the way you are able to commentate on things is really something. editing makes you feel like you're really watching a movie.
Absolutely love the passive aggression in these videos :D The production quality is always top tier. Solid job again Will, almost at the big 100k now!
Only when they deserve it :')
@@rswillmissit Looks for past evidence on a forum where the defendant can remove posts.
Thinks its definitive.
My man, good to see ya alive and well
I remmeber seeing the price of boots as a kid and tried to buy them all from the npc not knowing it was already 75k. RIP 4m.
To add some context on my comment in the video (very well done by the way) my friend that told me was an irl friend at school (this was early highschool). I don't know (or remember) how he knew about the update but when he called me on Skype it was like the most urgent thing in the world that I buy as many boots as I can. To which I gave up after like an hour or so because the shop was always empty.
I'll talk with him later to see if he remembers or I'm just going through a false memory of the whole situation.
Edit: I misremembered the event
Seeing all these clips from 2008-2010 really hit me in the nostalgia
What a thrilling story, what a splendid presentation, what an absolute king of making RS videos (that I might have not known I needed)
Before I watch this:
Jagex obviously would have talked among themselves with the price increase. I’m sure some employees capitalized on this with their personal accounts buying tons of climbing boots. Having the inside knowledge would be crazy!
Great video btw!
Especially when you consider the rampant corruption among the JMods.
Man, the community was so painfully innocent at the time, and the internet being so underdeveloped and easy to manipulate didn't help.
I remember "Pics or it didn't happen" being a thing back in the day.
Pics or it didn't happen is still law
We were all so young back then x)
@@bartdegryse9345 Hey what do you mean, I'm still young
@@rswillmissit obviously I was just messing around. And holy shit, you responded to a comment of mine 🙈😬😄.
I remember playing when this update had happened.
People somehow had inside knowledge about this happening, I remember one guy flashing me over 70k+ of climbing boots he had bought pre-emptively to the price change.
And i went to the moon
@@Robin...222 It's true. I promise you this is true. There may not be evidence out there but I remember there were people with over 1k boots.
@@Flowers_Die 1k boots which is confirmed is not the same as 70k boots lol
Source: Trust me bro!
@@Flowers_Die 1k maybe but 70k come on man
Almost spit out my coffee at 03:09. S-tier quality as always!
Not hard to believe someone spending 12gp 91,000 times thinking they'd made 91,000× 200+gp but rather log in to realise that it had gone up 75k.
Just an unintentional flip.
Lol
I mean it was disastrously dumb, I cannot imagine considering the options and picking this one.
I believe it was a malicious update, there is absolutely no way anyone thought increasing the price of an item randomly was the best choice.
Just remove the stats or make it +1 str, it's so obvious.
Jagex have shown time and time again they only consider the options in isolated ways, ignoring the community perspective of things. On paper, the solution they brought out *did* fix it - assuming no other players had that many boots. But, as mentioned, Jagex didn't consider the players stock and how people might react to it. And here we are...
something we all have tro realize is that most of us were kids at the time of these updates. no one really cared about the facts of the matter, probably neither knew how to get those facts. i just remember hearing about it and taking it as the truth. i didnt even try to find out if it was true or not, i was like 11, i didnt care lol. but i also didnt participate in riots, i just heard about it and moved on at the time.
These videos got me back into osrs and make my work day so much faster. Thanks for some lit content.
i was literally binging your videos, and just saw this posted, cool!
Nice!
Back in 2007-08 or 09-10... I used to love finding glitches in the game, I had found a couple and then met and joined svew and his clan but I never played seriously, and left all that behind me, seeing his name and brag about the p mod forums is nostalgic, in a personal way. Good times indeed.
Between the screenshot of the price manipulation through rares and the joke about not seeing this in politics.. bravo willmissit!
A friend told me that his friend dad daughter cousin knew about this update before launch.
I just used climbing boots for the Edgar’s Ruse quest yesterday. Crazy
One small correction - that 212 coins was a hard cap. It wasn't just that the GE mid price couldn''t go above that - the item could not be bought or sold above that price even with that as the mid value.
I mention this in the video - the max price to be bought and sold for was 222 after the shop interface was introduced. 212 was mid price, 222 was +5% as the system allowed at the time.
@@rswillmissit That's what I'm correcting. The mid and max price would have BOTH been 212gp.
@@ixiolirion8781 I believe that's already reflected in the video? The price ceiling was 212 (200+12 as mentioned in the video) and the price never budged, as shown. People traded them for +5% (222). Maybe I'm confused about what you mean
@@rswillmissit Basically, some items had hard price caps on the GE - a ceiling which meant that not only could the GE mid price not go over this cap, but the GE max price couldn't either, or a price floor meaning that they could not be traded under this price (this latter group got treated as junk).
So if the GE mid price was the same as the upper price cap, as it was here, then that 5% didn't exist. The most the item could be traded for on the GE was 0% above the GE mid price because that mid price was at the cap. As this ceiling for climbing boots was 212 coins there was no way to sell them for 222.
Of course, people could sell in player to player trades for higher, but this was set by their trade limits, not by a % figure.
Hmm, is there any proof of this that'd back it up? I don't remember that far back to tell myself, but all the sources I've found all claim the same - that the max price on the GE was 5% over mid.
The GE price ceiling only dictated the maximum value an item could increase above shop value, but I haven't seen anything in my research to support the idea that also restricted the +5% system that was in place. It only meant the items mid value wouldn't increase with it.
Top tier channel. Its so so quality. I hope to edit like you someday, and fix my mic lol subscribed
The humor in the video is so good X D Blurring everything except 'fuck you jagex' realy got me
These documentaries are so good. Will, you should start a channel where you bust politicians or corporations!
it should be nice if you would figure out why mod reach got kicked out of the jagex team as the rumor says he was planning on implementing huge bugs into the game but i don't think anyone ever figured out the real reason or what actually happened
Yeah - the community doesn't know what happened and are only left with speculations. Reach doesn't want to talk about it either, so getting the exact information would be tricky. I have a few reliable sources who's told me pieces of the story, but nothing to really combine it all. Too many missing pieces, unfortunately
My god, this was 12 years ago. Even though I enjoy current Runescape, most of my most vivid memories are from 10+ years ago.
I 100% benefited. I had a maxed 1 defense pure back then and I had thousands of pk gear sets/loadouts. That included literally 5000 or so monks robes, black d hide chaps, mith gloves, etc….oh, and climbing boots ofc. I made a lot of money. Great memories.
I remember the quote: "a lie will make it across the country before the truth makes it out the door"
and that is what happened here. Controversy, no matter how small, is juicy for players. If you told people that Moderators were using in game cash to get rich in some way because reasons???? makes little to no sense including how they were against RMT. It's truly just stoking fires for the sense of juicy gossip. It was just a catalyst that covered up the truth for years.
Sailing is the next skill, saw someone in a boat out in the ocean. *proceeds to lie about dragons*
This is honestly such a good video, I’m sure so many can remember this and think back to better times in their life.
When Logdotzip was mentioned I recalled hearing that name but when you said it was the one who now makes minecraft videos shocked me.
Didn't expect he played runescape in 2010
The quality never drops on these!
Hi as someone who was in the Minecraft community the fucking reveal that logdotzip from RuneScape became logdotzip from Minecraft fucking blew my mind. I had no idea. I only discovered this channel today
Peperidge farm remembers
Hold on to thread. Its the main item for sailing. Will function similar to planks. But previous thread is upgraded to the next tier.
A huge part of Runescape history is wondering if you actually remember these events
The two for me.
Falafor massacre -- I remember I logged on like an hour or two after the massacre finished since my buddy and I went to a movie first then we originally planned to play instead of see the movie to literally run rune essence in the mines since that was a skill we were both training (he would mine, I would run and later rune craft). But we were tired of the grind and were like...let's just see a movie and then play for a bit. Great decision when we were wondering wtf was going on and what people were talking about. The world's were PACKED
The falador drop party, the famous parry hats. I remember BEING there and missing most of the drops. I got one party hat and kept it for years...until my account was locked and lost after I either lost the password or got hacked...to this day, never found out
Honestly it’s insane that logdotzip was involved in here for me, as Minecraft was my first hyperfixation I had, and now the past of my past has come to see me once more.
Jagex: (inhales)
RS Community: (Glares)
One thing to add is that the ge price had a suspicious hike just before the update so I think the minor leak theory is good
Got more info in this? It contradicts the video, which says the GE price was fixed to 212 gp at that time.
Conspiracy theory: RSwillmissit is secretly Leminio’s second channel.
He's such an inspiration
I remember this, I had just finished maxing my pure and I had about 8k boots banked for pking (bought when really cheap) few days later I logged in after hearing the news and I was fucking loaded. Sold every last one of them. Best rs days ever
How much was it
@@AIanWalker I think I sold them around 70k~ but when the update first happened, they were upwards of like 100k
@@AIanWalker I made about 600m
How do you not have 1 million subs yet. Well deserved
I remember using a program where you were able to change how much coins you looked like you had,
Was ages ago and I forget how I did it.
Involved finding the coding of the coins value and changing it.
It really does nothing but change what it looks like in your own personal inventory.
You can do it with Cheat Engine or any other program which changes memory values. I would be careful using a program like that though, because anti-cheat systems can usually notice very easily. Just changing the visual value does no harm, but the anti-cheat system won't know exactly what you're trying to change. It can't read intent.
@@CottidaeSEA It's client side so you can't change anything that isn't visual. At the very worst your client could send a packet that the server wouldn't expect it to but it just won't do anything. Highly doubt they'd spend the time to ban over this in any game, we have server authority for a reason.
@@CabbageGod There are loads of people who have gotten banned for that though, hiding stuff to make things easier. Probably not directly due to the program however.
I was also talking a bit more generally about games at that point.
@@CottidaeSEA I was also talking about games in general. If you modify games to give you an advantage then sure. But if you boot up runescape and switch around the items in your inventory or the gear you're wearing the server is not gonna care. Desyncs happen, no game would create a system to automatically ban you if it detects differences on your client. But yea goes without saying if you use it to cheat then of course you're gonna get banned. The same as any other cheats. Like if you disabled a wall in an FPS so you could see through it, you would get banned. But you'd get banned for walls, not because you used Cheat Engine.
@@CabbageGod Some anti-cheat systems will immediately react to something changing arbitrary memory values though and shut down the game or straight up ban you. Some systems just straight up won't let you play if you have a program like that running. You're greatly underestimating anti-cheat systems.
Cool story, I must have missed this at the time! Not sure about the last point though. With a week's notice, maybe one account could only get a few 100 pairs, but couldn't someone make enough alts to reach a few thousand?
I remember seeing all the stuff about climbing boots when it was going down. The memories lol
I heard about the price hike on climbing boots a few days before they went live and spent the entire time buying climbing boots and made a shitload of money. got 99 prayer. I also told a ton of people about it
"Heck some people were so illiterate that they confused Mod Mark, a lead designer, and Mod MMG, the Ceo and started claiming that Mark Gerhard was the one who leaked the info." Lmao, I can tell you half of these OSRS are illterate, and the other half are too stupid to realize they are illterate almost 10 years later.
Thanks for your content, I really enjoy all your videos, closed caption and your clear voice is a good help to learn English, we want more content about bots, bye bye and good luck
Thanks for watching!
I played a lot at this time but only had 6-7 boots, was surprised to see them go up so much but didn't make too much profit, i actually didn't even sell them all, i think i might still have them but in 2022 probably not worth a lot.
when he first said 'logdotzip' i was like THE MINECRAFT RUclipsR?? THAT I WATCHED AS A KID?? and then i paused to scroll aaaaalll the way through a decade worth of videos, didn't see any runescape, thought 'huh. must be a coincidence' and then 19:13 hit me like a truck
Logdotzip... was not expecting to Har that name. His channel has definitely taken a turn in recent years
I remember trying to buy boots before the update. Getting over 350k of them? Not likely that would’ve taken a lot of time. A lot more time where when he started he wouldn’t know they would’ve went that high
From 3:04 to 3:11, earned you an instant like and I'll be watching this later. Gold so far.
I remember this update when it happened and it was like... WTF? oh boy here we go again another dumb Jagex update (bad updates happened all the time around this point). I looked in my bank and had like ~50 of them. I was like ooo sweet free mills. Still thought it was dumb, but also felt like, at least I didn't miss out.
It's stuff like this that I start kicking myself for not buying thousands of climbing boots. As if I could have predicted this happening lol
As someone who’d never played RuneScape before 2019, seeing logdotzip’s name here is funny to me, because his Minecraft videos were a big part of my childhood.
My friend told me that his friend told him that Mod Mark told him that this leak was an inside job.
So in other words, nothing about what you're saying is trustworthy? Good to know.
My buddy's grandmothers dog's previous owners ex-husband said Mod Mark's bosses son's cousin said the leak was an inside job
@@CottidaeSEA My brother's mother's sister told me that it was in fact trustworthy and you are just a hater.
@@YelMalanta *That* does sound trustworthy!
"GF, wake up. A new willmissit video is out"
You flipped (no pun intended) my opinion on this matter, thanks for the in-depth information
Leave it to jagex to care about such a random small issue and not focus on real issues. Had they just left it alone, they'd have zero issues with it. But if they insist on changing things, they should've just made that show instanced for each player and boom, problem solved. That or just make the quantity so high that it would be pointless to try to merch them.
those good days, i was merching climbing boots.... i over 40k boots. i stopped playing after the trade restriction. logged in years later... sold everything and made a osrs account
"thats not the runescape way"
me: looks side to side from the drop party that i scored 150m from and still live off to this day
I want this version of Runescape back.
The best channel on RUclips! Great video!
Will miss it we miss you! Hope you are doing well my friend!❤
ugh i remember this too clearly, just like the jealously i remember feeling back then.
TIL Logdotzip is actually the guy from back in the RS days lmao
I had around 250ish climbing boots when the change happened. Cause I’d loot the wildly, legit for fun to watch fights and make money didn’t even sell that shit I got thankfully. Bank was made that day for me
Kind of funny that the ad I got was for a foot and ankle doctor all because there was "boots" in the title lol
All a part of the big picture
That’s called an algorithm my friend
Couldnt they have kept both items? Slightly increasing the value of the originals OR reducing the stat upgrades slightly and added a use feature to upgrade them to rock climbing boots with an item of similar value to the rock climbing boot value?
Ah yes, removing the boots would be EXACTLY like losing both your kidneys.
I would never go out of my way to protect Jagex. I am sure sneaky things have gone on behind closed doors and still will. However if a JMod really wanted to help out a friend wouldn't they just give them some free items worth a lot of GP?
love that the RS community stands behind each other like in this scenario
I remember they were totally necessary. At the time. And made it so you literally couldn't get your stuff back if you died out there. It was too far away. for the time. without more boots.
wasn't there something similar when the new dinosaur bosses came out? There were a small few that had so many zerker rings
jagex posted on the rs forums mentioning climbing boots were going to go to 75k in the coming day or two in a random comment on some thread
There is no mention of this anywhere though?
@@rswillmissitnew video when?
I can guarantee you this, there were dozens of us who easily had 10K+ stocked up. The rumor hit my clan I was in at the time and on a whim I bought up about 7,000 boots. There was someone else in my clan who only bought around 3,000 and he still made a lot of money.
Assuming you watched the video, I do wonder how you bought so many on a whim
Totally forgot this even happened!
There definitely was a leak. I ran a merching clan at the time and one of my members had around 100k boots, he got the info from his friend who got it from someone at Jagex - but didn't care to tell me...
How did he get 100k in such short time though?
@@rswillmissit He was a skiller/mercher who just lived at the GE, think he just kept buying them for days/weeks leading up to it, off both GE and from players at GE.
@@flowerpeckermusic it was taking 3 days to buy a single pair off GE and the shop would take hours to stock 30 pairs.
The only way he could amass so many pairs is if there was a leak for months prior to the update being implemented. Especially at the quantity you’re speaking of.
That bull
odd to see mark hulmes casually mentioned as a runescape mod lol
But was it really a game integrity issue? I don’t think so.
I never knew that there was this much to it, amazing video as per usual
In retrospec would it have been better to add an npc to convert the boots to rock climbing boots for cash instead? And have boots stay low alch. Maybe have it more gp than rune boots. 75k too much. Maybe 20 or 30k?
Idk why they didn't just remove the stats and add an upgraded version you pay 75k for after the quest.