Yes, but it only gives people a random idea of what their actual costs are going to be. Still, kudos for him producing it and showing his system. The real costs are always going to be dependent upon the situation at hand. If you have massive water flow with huge elevation drops, that's great. If you have seasonal water flows and/or short drops, it's a loss. You have to have a good elevation change and a constant flow of water, which is extremely rare for most places.
$5000 for a generation system is a pretty good price for independence.. 3.5 years and its PAYING YOU!! Not counting any upgrades you do or youtube revenue. Sounds like a win, either way you slice it!!
A very cheap way to build a better intake to fit to the rock without needing to put in something permanent like drilling for rebar and putting in concrete would be a gabion wall. a rubber membrane to go between the wall and the rock to give it a good seal and a pond liner so the wall can hold water will let you put in a number of pipes as you build the wall both for the current hydro and later projects. The best part of the gabion wall setup is most of the supplies for it are already there as it is just a wire cage you pack full of rocks/gravel for the weight so some scrap chain link fencing for the cage and some stainless tie wire will let you build a very cheap dam with collection pipes passing built in. You can make a sound lock on the output of the generator box without needing long pipes that cause a backup by using standard p traps to create a water level in the box and anything over that flows out on its own. To get the flow you need you would want more then one trap unless you feel like spending a ton on larger ones and a simple ditch to direct the water back to the creek. The sad fact is everyone thinks all batteries must be lead acid or lithium now but the truth is we have more then 200 years of battery research and lead acid only became the king for so long due to portability. There is a type of rechargeable battery called a gravity battery that uses two chemicals that need to form layers to work but would get mixed if moved ruclips.net/video/p8lyJhk4MjQ/видео.html How fun would it be to make batteries out of those heavy duty storage totes (not the thin ones that break if you put more then clothing in them) and some industrial chemicals you can order in bulk?
Thank you for this, fair play for the honesty of including your YT income. What I take from this is if you have the geography to install a system like this, it could be done incrementally, one battery, things like that. perhaps replace parts of the existing electricity demand as you can afford it. Certainly, if you are installing a new electricity supply this would pay much faster as you replace the installation costs with hydro costs, which might cost more upfront but free power from there on.
sell back extra ez, I just figured my household uses around 10-15 Kwh per day and if I could manage to produce 20Kwh power income I would be golden and get back more as they are forced to buy back all energy you produce and not consume (if connected to a grid)
Use a sweep rather than a 90 elbow for your discharge. Basic plumbing calls fo sweeps when water or fluids being dropped into a turn will flow smoothly the elbow will creat a hammer affect as water drops in the elbow and hits the bottom as it try’s to exit, thus the hammer affect
What I'm planning on doing is having the water drop out of the pma housing into a catchment basin that has two 3" pipes going out of that. should allow plenty of water to escape.
Really great video and breakdown of cost. I didn't know such things even existed but makes perfect sense and wonderful usage of natural resources. Oh, and thanks for the chuckle from seeing "Killowattmeter" with "LL"'s in the word Kilo.
Excellent filming, and your price and design share is so informative... bravo... it's not just about cost, yet about independence and what is possible?! Thank you -- excellent share and production work !!!
This is the most honest one I've ever seen (cool touch adding youtube). However, if I get a coffee machine, I don't calculate in how much time I get the money back by not going out for coffee. Instead I'm just taking it as a convenience that I need. Investing to produce your own energy gives you some self reliance and taking off the dependency on the grid. That's how I look at these things. Not depending on anyone else. If I also get the investment back, that's just a bonus. I live in a remote mountain location and while I do have electricity from the grid (big bonus for this location), it's extremely unreliable. My water already comes from a spring and has around at least 3 bars of pressure. Better than in a city. One day I will invest in a hydro. But I want to adapt a self-built wind turbine to it.
I've had my grid tied hydro setup for 15 years, and could care less what it cost, or the payback. 10 years from now, the same people here asking will STILL be asking, and still depending on their utility for 100% of their power. My thinking is simple: once I spent the money to set it up (147' of head in 1/4 mile, 3" line from the collection box direct to the Harris Hydro, 935 watts max, down to 300 in late fall) it's all free power from then on. I have never factored in what the money could have earned in standard investments, the price per KWH, and nickel and dimed every last detail. I do know that right now, late August, it is producing about 600 watts 24/7 and that adds up quick especially as I get every watt back from my utility under a very favorable net metering system. Best guess on my setup is $3500.00.
Seth what an awesome project that you have completed. There are a few loose ends here and there. I think you did an amazing job with filming and explaining. I also love your approach to the whole thing(hands on and documenting the ideas). I followed your channel since you started making Ram pumps. Hydro is very interesting to me because water always moves because of the climate and temperature differences(same with air/wind). Hydro generation is not just applicable with tons of head differential like you have, it can also be achieved in other ways with higher velocity, or using the atmosphere and displacement to generate pressure. Thanks for a great series I really enjoyed it. I also enjoyed your solar hookup. All the best !
This has been a really fun project. I should be working on those loose ends over time. I also am looking to try out some small low head power in the future.
It’s a really neat hobby and I think it has a lot of potential i have a huge creek In my yard I may try something like this in my spare time when I have some extra money
I did solar because it’s fairly predictable, almost constant, but I’ve wanted to at least try micro hydro simply because I could. *after 10 years we finally made the jump to lithium batteries and the total system efficiency has brought us from the point where it was a struggle, to now having batteries full most of the time! (Same array/MPPT/PSW inverter)
Hydro is a bit unpredictable based on rain levels but it's certainly more entertaining to work with than solar. The move to lithium seems like a great idea.. The cost is a bit daunting.
@@LandtoHouse it took us 10 years on lead acid before it was even worth it, thank the lord I grabbed a couple exactly when they bottomed out back when 100ah was right at $300, it’s been going up since then.
@@LandtoHouse Woohoo! I love getting those power company updates as I use less each month. I'm insulating my house w/2" rigid foam board, I did a stretch that was 80' X 8 on sides of part of my 1915 house. Propane bill came in 200gals less propane last year. Off to Lowe's for some more this weekend.
@@LandtoHouse I salvaged enough 2" foam board to cover 30' X 8" of wall, then after that went to Lowe's and covered 50' of wall with 2 inch foam board, 2016-17 was 1890 gallons of propane 2017-18 was 1880 gallons of propane, then I insulated 80 ft of wall in 2019 -20 it was 1680 gallons of propane! 200 gallons less in one year! I'm headed back to Lowe's to get more foam board to cover some more walls. Of course I don't have a woman to criticize this choice.
Really great video and thanks for sharing the figures. Another thing to consider is the price of electricity changing. Consider your calculations if the 15c changed to 20c.? You are definitely better off all round. Really top stuff mate, thanks again for giving so much. I've just finished my solar install at my off grid place and now looking at using some ram pumps to move some water around. Enjoying your channel. :-)
Exactly what I wanted to know. A great walk-thru. You could also calculate for the cost to bring grid power to a new rural site. Was wondering what the optimum head for a turbine like yours might be when you seemed to suggest that your eleven hundred foot penstock might be overkill. A hard baffle like a couple sheets of plywood about ten feet back from the generator box might go a long way to reduce that "buzz" you hear from your house. subscribed
all noise generating structures, build a plywood box around them, goes long way because in forest area you dont need to worry about cleaning as you cover it and also it reduces noise exponentially
Great job very interesting, but for me no use what’s so ever, because we don’t have a stream, but if we did! What about wear and tear, the bearings for example, needs into be included in your equation. Thanks for taking the trouble to upload, if we should move, we will make sure there is a stream to exploit. But can I just point out that this for me anyways, is not just about saving money, but saving on resources, clean energy, which interested me most. We have solar here in Wales UK 3.2kw running a 48v battery bank, with 32 x 12v leisure sealed batteries giving us 16kwh of useable energy. I am currently adding another 1.6kw of solar on the outbuilding to boost the house solar in the winter months. I to aim to upload a series of videos explain how I did this DIY style. I am looking at micro rain water generation of about 100 watts, to help compensate for losses in the solar system. This year we have installed a rainwater harvesting system currently 5000 litres to be increased to 7000 at a later date. These where filled inside 2 months in autumn. So I think there is a potential to exploit. Wind unfortunately has to have planning permission here in the UK and is way more complex to install and run, but again we are considering micro wind generation with lots of tiny wind generators along a fence top. Keep up the good work!
looks great, I was just thinking have you concidered adding a couple selenoids on the top barrel that would open and close to keep barrel at a certain level. you could basicaly run full out 24/7 with no help from yourself.just a thought
At 12:30 you said you can buy a 500w hydropower shunt controller for $25? Where?? Also at 15:55 you said your house was being heated with only about 500 watts? How are you doing that??
To be honest, you got a nice system; however, you should have run a larger catch at the top, run your reservoir barrel out line lower off the barrel (to gain more head pressure), (or ran two barrels, because I seen plenty of spillover), and run a larger diameter pipe from said reservoir to gain volume for the bottom. That would have allowed you to either run two of the gens you’re running now or run a large unit. Either way, it’s a great start. 👍
Where I live, we wouldn't mind paying for electricity except the exorbitant costs of transmission fees, administrative fees, environmental fees, and fees for fees. Our actual cost for utility is 25% of the bill, and I think I'm being generous with that estimate. Not paying for all the fees alone would make your system well worth it.
Commenting for the RUclips rev increase. Great info, never even considered this as an option. Mainly cause the only hydro I'd ever seen was scaled for huge dams. Or a water mill where the energy is directly translated into work for, usually, a very specific job, like a water hammer.
Great gumption!!! One other costing factor is the inflation of electricity. The way inflation is these days, your electrical prices may be double in 3-5 years, so your net payoff would be shorter. Cheers
On the pay-off you need to consider compounding. That is, had you invested the $5k (or your 1200) how much would it have earned during the payback timeframe. Yes, that makes the result look less attractive but is a more realistic picture.
Nice work! Could you place a second generator inline after the 1st unit or is the discharge water too slow ? Maybe more slope & distance is needed. Alternative, a second pipe coming from the grey barrel and more pipe to a second unit would produce more power and the barrel would not drain below either pipe. Research Amorphous Solar panels, they produce a little less power but they produce in the shade or with overcast and they power up at sunrise. No waiting a couple of hours to get full power and they can compete head to head once the sun is up. Some claim the crystalline produce more but if rated at the same wattage its in full sun when amorphous produces a little less but with overcast you get more for less.
Couple of questions 1) What is the pressure loss in the penstock between shut off and full power. IE would it make sense to install larger pipe? 2) You;re loosing several feet of head having the barrel open. Why? 3) I take it the batteries are deep draw marine batteries. Expensive but well worth it 4) Turgo / pelton wheels run moat efficiently at half the water velocity. Is that what you have? 5) I assume you are running at 48 volts. What is your power loss from the generator to the house? Step up step down transformers are too expensive.
Good breakdown. Just a tip, the more you emphasis 'honest' the less believable you become for some folks. Kinda like a politician telling people how 'honest' he is, lol.
I know this video is a couple years old so I don't know if you are still responding to comments. Can you do a video on how you tie the hydro and the solar together. I have had trouble find this content online. Thanks, and nice video.
Could do this for a days labor and scrap laying around. Longer to tweak the hertz and battery bank. But generator build easy. Up hill water battery smart ensures stability. I would love to make one but I don't have the drop nor the steady flow. Tromp ram would be super cool to get that water elevated.
A Pelton impeller so small already 2 opposite injectors interfere with each other, and since a small diameter the water is dragged by the centrifugal force and does not have time to leave the spoon that already meets the other injector, it is a known problem on more powerful systems , for example, the Turgo impellers can have more injectors and also of large flow and do not interfere, at the expense of a slightly lower conversion efficiency, let alone 4 injectors on a Pelton impeller so small in diameter, then if the exhaust is not completely free it is even worse, I would have used 2 impellers coupled but not too close to let the water flow sideways without interfering, always with a single PMA with a maximum of 2 ignitors per impeller opposite at 180 ° would be the most efficient solution, even small containers on pelton impellers especially vertical axis create problems. Ciao
I’d love to see that experiment with an A-B comparison, 2 nozzles on one impeller vs 2 nozzles on 2 parallel impellers. We can see that adding a second nozzle to the single impeller increased the output by approximately 65%. Do you believe the output would double with 2 linked impellers? Or are there other diminishing returns in the added mechanicals and speed of the generator itself that might limit the increase?
@@andinbriwel1092 Yes, it would be interesting ! The power is logically increased by opening more jets of water, but at a certain point it decreases either because there is no water upstream and the pressure drops, or because the pressure drops of the small pipeline increase due to too much flow, it also drops a little for interference between the jets and the impeller without considering the discharge which in this case seems to have the greatest fault, those impellers so small should be used with a nozzle only at most 2 opposite at 90 °, even the incorrect positioning / angle of attack of the water compared to the impeller and nozzle diameter compared to the size of the spoon can cause loss of efficiency. Ciao
Great video series. Did you ever run into any problems with county regulations? I live in Snohomish County in Washington state and they are notoriously stringent on stuff like this. Would love to hear thoughts about this. Thanks again.
It's sad for us flatlander's, that we may have plenty of water, but we don't have the elevation to be profitable. Just one of the problems of living in Florida.
Very nice. I'm curious what the difference in price would be to build a small dam and have the generator right at the water source site? Have 12 gauge wire bringing the power back to the house and rectify inside like you're currently doing? Having less battery capacity and a smaller grid tie system would be a cheaper way to reduce costs but wouldn't give you offline grid power. Like you said, the electronics is another place to save money.
Seth your a legend! Im in a climate colder than yourself in northeastern Canada. Asides from turning it off and having it freeze on you recently during maintenance is there any recommendations for ways around cold temperatures?
Thanks this was very good to me, I have a total Load of 50000watts (50Kw), what capacity of this turbine will you suggest for me … meanwhile all the loads are pure industrial machines… I will love to have your idea on this, looking forward to hear from you.
Awesome project, I just hope it’s not complete, it definitely needs to be cleaned up and managed a bit more. I seen a few things they may come back to bite you in the future. Such as corrosion on connections, connections in general, wire management, types of termination. I’d use a sweeping 90* or a different exhaust. I’d suggest investing in other batteries than lead acid or AGM. Then if you still have excess you can load dump into your hot water heater.
If you put a gen water house to keep every thing dry and use a heater for winter time . then maybe a ramp pump to use the extra water for your system and last a return pipe to underground am, I forgetting any thing my though, h20 to gen set use heater in winter then pump h20 to home then a pipe to recharge water system
then when you calculate the time / labor / probably another generator the total comes to $7,777 and it will take 20 years to break even however by that time you have to buy another generator and batteries and electronics so now it is about 30 years thanks for proving it is totally not worth it it takes more energy to produce all the equipment you used than any benefit from using the system for 30 years the only virtue is that all the people who gained employment from producing the equipment
Correct me if i'm wrong, your system or any water system has the advantage of producing 24/7, but with that cost you get 300w/h or 2.628.000w/y. If you had like 5, 300w solar panels producing 280w 6 hours per day, that would amount to around 350w/h 3.066.000w/year, if you build a strong electric system your solar is scalable bringing the cost of investment per watt down, you can run all your heavy machines during the day with all that power and I'm guessing is much easier to install. Isn't solar much better for price and effort?
I also watched your two videos on running in winter. For me, in Vermont, that limits me to about six months per year for the hydro setup. The kilowatt price is about the same here, so payoff would be about 17 years. What is the life expectancy for the parts of this total set up? I suspect parts would be needing replacement by that time.
I really believe, that these projects, require a parallel where you can use the AC directly, and have an alternate system on DC, also with 1200 ft you could be at 1800w generation and power well selected appliances directly
Here in bc canada everything costs 2x the numbers you mentioned 😬😬 Just paid $3100 just for 500 ft of 6 inch pvc (with school board discount) Quoted $1000 for a 6 inch gate valve. Not sure what I got myself into 😅going to have to macgyver a lot
@@LandtoHouse yeah I'm thinking I will make a manifold down to 4 2" pipes for a 4 jet pelton turbine. Gonna have to put a spreadsheet together with cost comparisons.
No wonder you are out of breath sometimes!!! (The FAST FORWARDING) 😮😅😂😊😊😊 Also, it is because of you that I like more of this idea... I don't know what state you live in, but I will contact when I'm ready and of course use Langston's hydro products... **What do you charge all together to do the work???😊😊😊✌️
What are your plans for freezing? In the winter, the flowing water in the pipes should be okay. But my concern is the water as it exits the nozzles and the release site past the turgo turbine. If it freezes enough, it could completely stop flow backing up your pipe which would freeze the pipes and possibly burst them.
1 inches cost per meter here are in 18 - 26 pesos Fitting cost 5 pesos Seal cost 23-27 pesos Hose clamp 4 pesos Barrel pvc 1000 pesos Pvc 2 inch worth 13 pesos per meter Plumber tape 11 pesos
That Was Great Again, But would You Tell The Why & The Why Nots OTHER Than Just Cost Why Not Use The Things You Would Not Have to Use IS IT Safer Better Or More Expandable The Way You Did It & , What Would You Recommend To The Average Person For A Really Good Long Term Trouble Free System & if Is It Better To Go Ahead & Tighten Up Now ,To Save Alot , & Alot Of Work & Trouble Later ??? I Know That is Alot So Maybe Just Touch On Them Points Thank You 🙄👍👍👍
Maintenance batteries ever 2 years most everything there has to be replaced over 4 years The pipe may be the only surviving thing and then I don't know where this is but the winter time that would all freeze and bust
I don’t know if you factored in the utility companies delivery charge. Because here in New York using Con Edison… I think I’m paying $.12 per kilowatt hour using clean choice energy or whatever… Which is a good price but then Connor is in charges me another $.12 per kilowatt hour to deliver it. So you’re saving on the delivery charge and whatever extra charges on your utility provider. So it seems like your payback period might actually be shorter
My family's property is situated on a side hill. There is a small stream flowing down hill on one edge of the property. There is about 115 feet of drop, from a highway sluice pipe to a street ditch at the other end of the property. There is flow, year round, but not a constant heavy flow. This stream terminates at a nearby street at the far edge of the property, about 850 linear feet from the house. Further up the hill, there is another highway drainage ditch (small) at the opposite edge of the property. This other ditch is on the property for a much shorter span. It has year round flow (limited) as well. I've occasionally wondered if there could be a way to harness these flows to generate power. I have no idea if there is a way to figure it out, how much flow could actually be harnessed, or how much the materials to harness it would cost. How does someone actually learn how to assess a situation like this?
Looked through the comments but did not see anywhere those grid tie inverters were mentioned. What brand and model are those? Great setup, thanks! Liked + Subbed.
Nice alternative. Would you factor in the costs of solar vs turbine? What is the warranty on the hydro system compared to 10 or 25 years warranty on solar panels with more batteries for bad weather energy storage?
Thanks for the clear presentation. Looking to do this project. I will try pulling from 2 streams , 1 avg. about 20 gals. per min. but has high head. the other is flowing creek guesting about 1600 gal. per min. but low head. should I use a different turbo system for creek, if so what do u suggest?
Really appreciate the honest breakdown. This is exactly what someone getting in to this needs to see.
Yes, but it only gives people a random idea of what their actual costs are going to be. Still, kudos for him producing it and showing his system. The real costs are always going to be dependent upon the situation at hand. If you have massive water flow with huge elevation drops, that's great. If you have seasonal water flows and/or short drops, it's a loss. You have to have a good elevation change and a constant flow of water, which is extremely rare for most places.
$5000 for a generation system is a pretty good price for independence.. 3.5 years and its PAYING YOU!! Not counting any upgrades you do or youtube revenue. Sounds like a win, either way you slice it!!
A very cheap way to build a better intake to fit to the rock without needing to put in something permanent like drilling for rebar and putting in concrete would be a gabion wall. a rubber membrane to go between the wall and the rock to give it a good seal and a pond liner so the wall can hold water will let you put in a number of pipes as you build the wall both for the current hydro and later projects. The best part of the gabion wall setup is most of the supplies for it are already there as it is just a wire cage you pack full of rocks/gravel for the weight so some scrap chain link fencing for the cage and some stainless tie wire will let you build a very cheap dam with collection pipes passing built in.
You can make a sound lock on the output of the generator box without needing long pipes that cause a backup by using standard p traps to create a water level in the box and anything over that flows out on its own. To get the flow you need you would want more then one trap unless you feel like spending a ton on larger ones and a simple ditch to direct the water back to the creek.
The sad fact is everyone thinks all batteries must be lead acid or lithium now but the truth is we have more then 200 years of battery research and lead acid only became the king for so long due to portability. There is a type of rechargeable battery called a gravity battery that uses two chemicals that need to form layers to work but would get mixed if moved ruclips.net/video/p8lyJhk4MjQ/видео.html How fun would it be to make batteries out of those heavy duty storage totes (not the thin ones that break if you put more then clothing in them) and some industrial chemicals you can order in bulk?
Thank you for this, fair play for the honesty of including your YT income. What I take from this is if you have the geography to install a system like this, it could be done incrementally, one battery, things like that. perhaps replace parts of the existing electricity demand as you can afford it. Certainly, if you are installing a new electricity supply this would pay much faster as you replace the installation costs with hydro costs, which might cost more upfront but free power from there on.
You are producing more energy than your home usage. Great 👍🏽
sell back extra
ez, I just figured my household uses around 10-15 Kwh per day and if I could manage to produce 20Kwh power income I would be golden and get back more as they are forced to buy back all energy you produce and not consume (if connected to a grid)
How is he producing more energy than his home usage??
I have a creek that runs good about 6 months and definitely during winter when power bills are highest. This is inspiring.
Congratulations on 100k subs it has been a long journey Seth
Use a sweep rather than a 90 elbow for your discharge. Basic plumbing calls fo sweeps when water or fluids being dropped into a turn will flow smoothly the elbow will creat a hammer affect as water drops in the elbow and hits the bottom as it try’s to exit, thus the hammer affect
What I'm planning on doing is having the water drop out of the pma housing into a catchment basin that has two 3" pipes going out of that. should allow plenty of water to escape.
I was waiting for that vidéo . Thank you to be open and Honest
It was also good for me to really lock down the cost.
Really great video and breakdown of cost. I didn't know such things even existed but makes perfect sense and wonderful usage of natural resources. Oh, and thanks for the chuckle from seeing "Killowattmeter" with "LL"'s in the word Kilo.
Thanks for watching! This project has been a fun one. Full of learning. Several upgrades are on the way for 2021.
Excellent filming, and your price and design share is so informative... bravo... it's not just about cost, yet about independence and what is possible?! Thank you -- excellent share and production work !!!
This is the most honest one I've ever seen (cool touch adding youtube).
However, if I get a coffee machine, I don't calculate in how much time I get the money back by not going out for coffee. Instead I'm just taking it as a convenience that I need.
Investing to produce your own energy gives you some self reliance and taking off the dependency on the grid. That's how I look at these things. Not depending on anyone else. If I also get the investment back, that's just a bonus.
I live in a remote mountain location and while I do have electricity from the grid (big bonus for this location), it's extremely unreliable.
My water already comes from a spring and has around at least 3 bars of pressure. Better than in a city. One day I will invest in a hydro. But I want to adapt a self-built wind turbine to it.
Nice work man! However, being an electrician, the wiring mess is making my OCD act up. 🤣🤣
For sure! Check out the new power shed video. WAY better.
But you guys toss your shit all over the floor and leave in on the job sites lmao
I've had my grid tied hydro setup for 15 years, and could care less what it cost, or the payback. 10 years from now, the same people here asking will STILL be asking, and still depending on their utility for 100% of their power. My thinking is simple: once I spent the money to set it up (147' of head in 1/4 mile, 3" line from the collection box direct to the Harris Hydro, 935 watts max, down to 300 in late fall) it's all free power from then on. I have never factored in what the money could have earned in standard investments, the price per KWH, and nickel and dimed every last detail. I do know that right now, late August, it is producing about 600 watts 24/7 and that adds up quick especially as I get every watt back from my utility under a very favorable net metering system. Best guess on my setup is $3500.00.
The more innovative you are the more likely you'll solve future problems. GOOD JOB !!
Thank you for this! I just bought a house and we have a stream. Plan to get in to hydro and solar! Thanks again
Nice! Solar is super easy. Hydro has a lot of components. But hydro is a lot more fun to install.
@@LandtoHouse I envy your creek. Got 10 kWp solar at least.
Also operate a family owned small hydro power plant. 250 kW. 😉
Seth what an awesome project that you have completed. There are a few loose ends here and there. I think you did an amazing job with filming and explaining. I also love your approach to the whole thing(hands on and documenting the ideas). I followed your channel since you started making Ram pumps. Hydro is very interesting to me because water always moves because of the climate and temperature differences(same with air/wind). Hydro generation is not just applicable with tons of head differential like you have, it can also be achieved in other ways with higher velocity, or using the atmosphere and displacement to generate pressure. Thanks for a great series I really enjoyed it. I also enjoyed your solar hookup. All the best !
This has been a really fun project. I should be working on those loose ends over time. I also am looking to try out some small low head power in the future.
Nice to see another local doing this I was raised in spruce pine
I know this was 2 years ago but I am jealous of your material costs. Where I live an 8 foot length of 2x4 is 8 dollars.
It’s a really neat hobby and I think it has a lot of potential i have a huge creek In my yard I may try something like this in my spare time when I have some extra money
Im definitely waiting in anticipation for the off grid build.....
Thanks for the breakdown! I think it’s a smart decision to have multiple sources of electricity. A back up for a back up .....
comprehensive and easy to understand. thanks
I like that you changed out that metal box to pvc lb fitting on the pma!!
I did solar because it’s fairly predictable, almost constant, but I’ve wanted to at least try micro hydro simply because I could.
*after 10 years we finally made the jump to lithium batteries and the total system efficiency has brought us from the point where it was a struggle, to now having batteries full most of the time! (Same array/MPPT/PSW inverter)
Hydro is a bit unpredictable based on rain levels but it's certainly more entertaining to work with than solar.
The move to lithium seems like a great idea.. The cost is a bit daunting.
@@LandtoHouse it took us 10 years on lead acid before it was even worth it, thank the lord I grabbed a couple exactly when they bottomed out back when 100ah was right at $300, it’s been going up since then.
Some of the fancy ones are now $700.
Great job! Keep track of all your bills so you aren't making unrealistic estimate of costs!
Yes for sure.the power company sends an email updating progress for the month. We finally dropped below average. Saving around 200kwh last month.
@@LandtoHouse Woohoo! I love getting those power company updates as I use less each month. I'm insulating my house w/2" rigid foam board, I did a stretch that was 80' X 8 on sides of part of my 1915 house. Propane bill came in 200gals less propane last year. Off to Lowe's for some more this weekend.
That sounds like a really nice way to save money. I have slowly been adding insulation to the attic space going to have about 15" up there
@@LandtoHouse I salvaged enough 2" foam board to cover 30' X 8" of wall, then after that went to Lowe's and covered 50' of wall with 2 inch foam board, 2016-17 was 1890 gallons of propane 2017-18 was 1880 gallons of propane, then I insulated 80 ft of wall in 2019 -20 it was 1680 gallons of propane! 200 gallons less in one year! I'm headed back to Lowe's to get more foam board to cover some more walls. Of course I don't have a woman to criticize this choice.
so great that you have land with a stream to do this system.
years ago when I was looking for land water was my main goal.
Absolutely love this tech. Thanks for sharing your setup!
Thank you for watching. This hydro setup has been a long time dream of mine.
Man that’s a lot of elevation to work with! I’ve got about 25ft 😅
Really great video and thanks for sharing the figures. Another thing to consider is the price of electricity changing. Consider your calculations if the 15c changed to 20c.? You are definitely better off all round. Really top stuff mate, thanks again for giving so much. I've just finished my solar install at my off grid place and now looking at using some ram pumps to move some water around. Enjoying your channel. :-)
Thank you for your nice video. I love the way you talk, it's so easy and clear for me to study this.
Thank you for watching. I am learning as I go so hopefully the info is right.
Exactly what I wanted to know. A great walk-thru.
You could also calculate for the cost to bring grid power to a new rural site. Was wondering what the optimum head for a turbine like yours might be when you seemed to suggest that your eleven hundred foot penstock might be overkill.
A hard baffle like a couple sheets of plywood about ten feet back from the generator box might go a long way to reduce that "buzz" you hear from your house.
subscribed
all noise generating structures, build a plywood box around them, goes long way because in forest area you dont need to worry about cleaning as you cover it and also it reduces noise exponentially
Great job very interesting, but for me no use what’s so ever, because we don’t have a stream, but if we did! What about wear and tear, the bearings for example, needs into be included in your equation. Thanks for taking the trouble to upload, if we should move, we will make sure there is a stream to exploit. But can I just point out that this for me anyways, is not just about saving money, but saving on resources, clean energy, which interested me most. We have solar here in Wales UK 3.2kw running a 48v battery bank, with 32 x 12v leisure sealed batteries giving us 16kwh of useable energy. I am currently adding another 1.6kw of solar on the outbuilding to boost the house solar in the winter months. I to aim to upload a series of videos explain how I did this DIY style. I am looking at micro rain water generation of about 100 watts, to help compensate for losses in the solar system. This year we have installed a rainwater harvesting system currently 5000 litres to be increased to 7000 at a later date. These where filled inside 2 months in autumn. So I think there is a potential to exploit. Wind unfortunately has to have planning permission here in the UK and is way more complex to install and run, but again we are considering micro wind generation with lots of tiny wind generators along a fence top. Keep up the good work!
looks great, I was just thinking have you concidered adding a couple selenoids on the top barrel that would open and close to keep barrel at a certain level. you could basicaly run full out 24/7 with no help from yourself.just a thought
Congrats on 100k! Amazing
Thank you! Its a milestone that has taken a nice long while.
Confusing but doable. I'm going to get a system similar to it.. Thanks for sharing.
Wow this is so cool. I did not know one could buy residential sized hydro electric machines for power!
This unit has been a great hobby. I would need more water to make real power. But it does save $10 to $30 a month in power.
At 12:30 you said you can buy a 500w hydropower shunt controller for $25? Where??
Also at 15:55 you said your house was being heated with only about 500 watts? How are you doing that??
To be honest, you got a nice system; however, you should have run a larger catch at the top, run your reservoir barrel out line lower off the barrel (to gain more head pressure), (or ran two barrels, because I seen plenty of spillover), and run a larger diameter pipe from said reservoir to gain volume for the bottom. That would have allowed you to either run two of the gens you’re running now or run a large unit.
Either way, it’s a great start. 👍
Where I live, we wouldn't mind paying for electricity except the exorbitant costs of transmission fees, administrative fees, environmental fees, and fees for fees. Our actual cost for utility is 25% of the bill, and I think I'm being generous with that estimate. Not paying for all the fees alone would make your system well worth it.
The drain pipe from the turbine may be generating too much back pressure that limits the power output. Wonder if an shorter/wider pipe would do.
My last question a few videos back must have not been original in your comments. Thanks for the breakdown and this video.
I figured it would be best to take the build one component at a time.
Now you need to be a field consultant for Langston. 😊
That would be fun. I might have 2 more hydro installs next year.
Commenting for the RUclips rev increase. Great info, never even considered this as an option. Mainly cause the only hydro I'd ever seen was scaled for huge dams. Or a water mill where the energy is directly translated into work for, usually, a very specific job, like a water hammer.
Thank you. Yes check out the newest video on the channel for the updates to the hydro!
Great project. Thanks for sharing your information.
Awesome content, thank you for sharing. Given me some great idea's and motivation to get going on my own off grid set up.
Great gumption!!! One other costing factor is the inflation of electricity. The way inflation is these days, your electrical prices may be double in 3-5 years, so your net payoff would be shorter. Cheers
Peak time of use here in Southern Cali is .79 per kwh!
Wow that is high. We typically hit $0.18 here.
Is there a reason you use 90s rather than sweeps at the corners? Seems like there would be an efficiency boost with sweeps
On the pay-off you need to consider compounding.
That is, had you invested the $5k (or your 1200) how much would it have earned during the payback timeframe.
Yes, that makes the result look less attractive but is a more realistic picture.
Or, you could lose on your investment, making this a more guaranteed savings.
Nice work! Could you place a second generator inline after the 1st unit or is the discharge water too slow ? Maybe more slope & distance is needed. Alternative, a second pipe coming from the grey barrel and more pipe to a second unit would produce more power and the barrel would not drain below either pipe.
Research Amorphous Solar panels, they produce a little less power but they produce in the shade or with overcast and they power up at sunrise. No waiting a couple of hours to get full power and they can compete head to head once the sun is up. Some claim the crystalline produce more but if rated at the same wattage its in full sun when amorphous produces a little less but with overcast you get more for less.
how about replacing panels as they are not forever, also you then need to buy new panels and replace old worn ones, as they degrade in UV
@@lollgodz9965 so what, that's like 20 years away from the date installed
Couple of questions
1) What is the pressure loss in the penstock between shut off and full power. IE would it make sense to install larger pipe?
2) You;re loosing several feet of head having the barrel open. Why?
3) I take it the batteries are deep draw marine batteries. Expensive but well worth it
4) Turgo / pelton wheels run moat efficiently at half the water velocity. Is that what you have?
5) I assume you are running at 48 volts. What is your power loss from the generator to the house? Step up step down transformers are too expensive.
Good breakdown. Just a tip, the more you emphasis 'honest' the less believable you become for some folks. Kinda like a politician telling people how 'honest' he is, lol.
I know this video is a couple years old so I don't know if you are still responding to comments. Can you do a video on how you tie the hydro and the solar together. I have had trouble find this content online. Thanks, and nice video.
It would be interesting to see you revisit and do a series on your water wheel pump!
Could do this for a days labor and scrap laying around. Longer to tweak the hertz and battery bank. But generator build easy. Up hill water battery smart ensures stability. I would love to make one but I don't have the drop nor the steady flow. Tromp ram would be super cool to get that water elevated.
A Pelton impeller so small already 2 opposite injectors interfere with each other, and since a small diameter the water is dragged by the centrifugal force and does not have time to leave the spoon that already meets the other injector, it is a known problem on more powerful systems , for example, the Turgo impellers can have more injectors and also of large flow and do not interfere, at the expense of a slightly lower conversion efficiency, let alone 4 injectors on a Pelton impeller so small in diameter, then if the exhaust is not completely free it is even worse, I would have used 2 impellers coupled but not too close to let the water flow sideways without interfering, always with a single PMA with a maximum of 2 ignitors per impeller opposite at 180 ° would be the most efficient solution, even small containers on pelton impellers especially vertical axis create problems.
Ciao
I’d love to see that experiment with an A-B comparison, 2 nozzles on one impeller vs 2 nozzles on 2 parallel impellers. We can see that adding a second nozzle to the single impeller increased the output by approximately 65%. Do you believe the output would double with 2 linked impellers? Or are there other diminishing returns in the added mechanicals and speed of the generator itself that might limit the increase?
@@andinbriwel1092 Yes, it would be interesting ! The power is logically increased by opening more jets of water, but at a certain point it decreases either because there is no water upstream and the pressure drops, or because the pressure drops of the small pipeline increase due to too much flow, it also drops a little for interference between the jets and the impeller without considering the discharge which in this case seems to have the greatest fault, those impellers so small should be used with a nozzle only at most 2 opposite at 90 °, even the incorrect positioning / angle of attack of the water compared to the impeller and nozzle diameter compared to the size of the spoon can cause loss of efficiency. Ciao
Great video series. Did you ever run into any problems with county regulations? I live in Snohomish County in Washington state and they are notoriously stringent on stuff like this. Would love to hear thoughts about this. Thanks again.
Not so far. There are a lot of systems like this around my area. Another neighbor is about to do a waterwheel.
Put a dam and customize to hold back more water in summer.
Still need to configure maintenance and replacement issues. I.e. batteries and other consumables that break. But still a good system.
Very good!
I'm setting up my project.
This helps me with some ideas.
It's sad for us flatlander's, that we may have plenty of water, but we don't have the elevation to be profitable.
Just one of the problems of living in Florida.
This is dope. I see you like to put electrical neatly in terrible places though
Very nice. I'm curious what the difference in price would be to build a small dam and have the generator right at the water source site? Have 12 gauge wire bringing the power back to the house and rectify inside like you're currently doing? Having less battery capacity and a smaller grid tie system would be a cheaper way to reduce costs but wouldn't give you offline grid power. Like you said, the electronics is another place to save money.
Seth your a legend! Im in a climate colder than yourself in northeastern Canada. Asides from turning it off and having it freeze on you recently during maintenance is there any recommendations for ways around cold temperatures?
Bury pipe run Styrofoam on top of pipe that's buried.
Thanks this was very good to me, I have a total Load of 50000watts (50Kw), what capacity of this turbine will you suggest for me … meanwhile all the loads are pure industrial machines… I will love to have your idea on this, looking forward to hear from you.
Awesome project, I just hope it’s not complete, it definitely needs to be cleaned up and managed a bit more. I seen a few things they may come back to bite you in the future. Such as corrosion on connections, connections in general, wire management, types of termination. I’d use a sweeping 90* or a different exhaust. I’d suggest investing in other batteries than lead acid or AGM. Then if you still have excess you can load dump into your hot water heater.
Hi. I have made several changes from this video. Check out the new power shed videos for the all new wiring.
If you put a gen water house to keep every thing dry and use a heater for winter time . then maybe a ramp pump to use the extra water for your system and last a return pipe to underground am, I forgetting any thing my though, h20 to gen set use heater in winter then pump h20 to home then a pipe to recharge water system
Today double it for inflation, and since prices are bulk prices, for a couple on the small hardware, 3-5x on that small hardware
Great content! You didn't clarify the type of batteries you are using (lead acid? lithium?).
They look like marine batteries. Glass pack maybe.
For the price and size, AGM are the most likely. They are popular for systems like this.
then when you calculate the time / labor / probably another generator
the total comes to $7,777 and it will take 20 years to break even
however by that time you have to buy another generator and batteries and electronics
so now it is about 30 years
thanks for proving it is totally not worth it
it takes more energy to produce all the equipment you used than any benefit from using the system for 30 years
the only virtue is that all the people who gained employment from producing the equipment
Correct me if i'm wrong, your system or any water system has the advantage of producing 24/7, but with that cost you get 300w/h or 2.628.000w/y.
If you had like 5, 300w solar panels producing 280w 6 hours per day, that would amount to around 350w/h 3.066.000w/year, if you build a strong electric system your solar is scalable bringing the cost of investment per watt down, you can run all your heavy machines during the day with all that power and I'm guessing is much easier to install.
Isn't solar much better for price and effort?
Great job, But 8 years payback !, Will batteries alive for 8 years? Or you have to pay for new one every 4 or 5 years? What about generator life span?
I also watched your two videos on running in winter. For me, in Vermont, that limits me to about six months per year for the hydro setup. The kilowatt price is about the same here, so payoff would be about 17 years. What is the life expectancy for the parts of this total set up? I suspect parts would be needing replacement by that time.
You need to start bit coin mining and a grow op with all that free power.
Thanks a lot for this video! Very informative, very descriptive, well made.
I really believe, that these projects, require a parallel where you can use the AC directly, and have an alternate system on DC, also with 1200 ft you could be at 1800w generation and power well selected appliances directly
The 1200 feet is pipe length not head pressure. 450w is about the max my system could do.
Here in bc canada everything costs 2x the numbers you mentioned 😬😬 Just paid $3100 just for 500 ft of 6 inch pvc (with school board discount) Quoted $1000 for a 6 inch gate valve. Not sure what I got myself into 😅going to have to macgyver a lot
Oh my that is expensive! I was able to get some parts from my local plumbing store with a discount. 6" pipe is costly anyplace you go.
@@LandtoHouse yeah I'm thinking I will make a manifold down to 4 2" pipes for a 4 jet pelton turbine. Gonna have to put a spreadsheet together with cost comparisons.
No wonder you are out of breath sometimes!!! (The FAST FORWARDING) 😮😅😂😊😊😊
Also, it is because of you that I like more of this idea...
I don't know what state you live in, but I will contact when I'm ready and of course use Langston's hydro products...
**What do you charge all together to do the work???😊😊😊✌️
Appreciate the cost analysis 👍
Happy to help!
What are your plans for freezing?
In the winter, the flowing water in the pipes should be okay. But my concern is the water as it exits the nozzles and the release site past the turgo turbine.
If it freezes enough, it could completely stop flow backing up your pipe which would freeze the pipes and possibly burst them.
Flowing water rarely freezes.
1 inches cost per meter here are in 18 - 26 pesos
Fitting cost 5 pesos
Seal cost 23-27 pesos
Hose clamp 4 pesos
Barrel pvc 1000 pesos
Pvc 2 inch worth 13 pesos per meter
Plumber tape 11 pesos
1 nozzle = 210W, 2 nozzles = 330W ???
So 2nd nozzle adding just 120W...
wouldn't it be better to connect it to another turbine and get 210W out of it?
So you missed the whole cost analysis portion and focused on energy production by doubling the most expensive part of the setup?
Thank you for the great content!
Nice project. How much electricity it generates per day in watt?
Dont forget the service charges are separated and doubles your bill so your actually closer too 25 cents a kwh
That Was Great Again, But would You Tell The Why & The Why Nots OTHER Than Just Cost Why Not Use The Things You Would Not Have to Use
IS IT Safer Better Or More Expandable The Way You Did It & , What Would You Recommend To The Average Person For A Really Good Long Term Trouble Free System & if Is It Better To Go Ahead & Tighten Up Now ,To Save Alot , & Alot Of Work & Trouble Later ??? I Know That is Alot So Maybe Just Touch On Them Points Thank You 🙄👍👍👍
why not collect up the water coming out of your generator and use a ram pump to pump it back up to the tanks?
Love it! How do we keep the government from finding it now?
Government “you better not be making your own electricity now!”
So far no issues with that. I imagine they would prefer people pay full price power though
@@LandtoHouse yeah. They would rather I buy my electricity from the giant hydro damn.
I wonder if it will last that long and what kind of warranty did you get with the micro hydro?
Really enjoyed following this
Maintenance batteries ever 2 years most everything there has to be replaced over 4 years The pipe may be the only surviving thing and then I don't know where this is but the winter time that would all freeze and bust
I don’t know if you factored in the utility companies delivery charge. Because here in New York using Con Edison… I think I’m paying $.12 per kilowatt hour using clean choice energy or whatever… Which is a good price but then Connor is in charges me another $.12 per kilowatt hour to deliver it. So you’re saving on the delivery charge and whatever extra charges on your utility provider. So it seems like your payback period might actually be shorter
I am not sure about the delivery charge here. I think they just have a base charge of $25 per month. Then the kwh rate.
Looks interesting. Any idea of maintenance cost?
My family's property is situated on a side hill. There is a small stream flowing down hill on one edge of the property. There is about 115 feet of drop, from a highway sluice pipe to a street ditch at the other end of the property. There is flow, year round, but not a constant heavy flow. This stream terminates at a nearby street at the far edge of the property, about 850 linear feet from the house. Further up the hill, there is another highway drainage ditch (small) at the opposite edge of the property. This other ditch is on the property for a much shorter span. It has year round flow (limited) as well. I've occasionally wondered if there could be a way to harness these flows to generate power. I have no idea if there is a way to figure it out, how much flow could actually be harnessed, or how much the materials to harness it would cost. How does someone actually learn how to assess a situation like this?
Curious about what climate you are in. That system will be useless below freezing. Also any plastic elbows filled with water will freeze and crack.
Damn I want to move to the US here in Scotland our cost per KWH is 6 times more than yours, we pay 80 to 120 for electricity GBP per month on average
Looked through the comments but did not see anywhere those grid tie inverters were mentioned. What brand and model are those? Great setup, thanks! Liked + Subbed.
Those are sun-1000g. They have worked flawlessly for several months.
Nice alternative. Would you factor in the costs of solar vs turbine? What is the warranty on the hydro system compared to 10 or 25 years warranty on solar panels with more batteries for bad weather energy storage?
Thanks for the clear presentation. Looking to do this project. I will try pulling from 2 streams , 1 avg. about 20 gals. per min. but has high head. the other is flowing creek guesting about 1600 gal. per min. but low head. should I use a different turbo system for creek, if so what do u suggest?