Many thanks - just bought a property with 3 streams and hundreds of feet of drop. Can’t wait to get started on system! Lots of good info - thanks for sharing.
@@LandtoHouse will be reaching out for advice - take possession on Tuesday - 300 acres - has existing wind turbine towers - turbines long gone - battery room already in place including conduits to house for cross connect - for solar and wind - just need to add hydro 😄. Will take several years but will be awesome once brought back. Doing raised bed garden. Ram pumps for watering - love the idea of “free” water! 2500 sq ft of greenhouse- in need of repair but salvageable. Got enough projects for rest of my days on this rock! Thank you so much for info / great channel!
One quick note, is the metal boxes that the turbines are in should be wider so that there is minimal splash back, where the water will splash back in front of the turbine spoons and the turbine spoon will then smash through the loose falling water, slowing the turbines' rotation. When the box is much wider the water comes in through the jets at the same distance as they are now and the water hits the spoons on the turbine and then fly's off away from the turbine and does not splash back because of its fall curve down below and out the bottom, maximising rotation speed with no splash back to hinder the turbine's rotor. A way to further increase the chance of no splash back is to remove the corners of the box, go to a kitchen shop and buy a large wok or half sphere shaped metal salad mixing bowl and use that instead of the square box, this will help to minimise the splash back from corners.
15:57 It depends on the voltage. For extreme long distances DC is the way to go. Very long AC lines have losses because of the large capacity to earth. This is nothing to worry about in a system like this. Usually you prefer AC because you can easily convert its voltage down or up with transformers. I think the brushless power generators put out AC naturally otherwise they would need brushes and a "commutator". If the generators put out high voltage you are fine, the losses are low. Double the voltage means you need half the current for the same power, means half the voltage drop over the conductor and the power loss is half the volts times half the amps equals 1/4 of the power loss.
Very interesting points covered in a very professional manner, I am just about to commence with a similar set up here, having now retired in rural Tanzania. I only hope I can emulate the same.
This is a WONDERFUL video! Thank you for all the information. I've learned more in these 30 mins then I have in days of research. I will say I was kinda let down when I found out the growatt uses so much energy. seemed to be a good affordable option that I was actually looking at.
love your content! recently purchased a property near Flat Rock, NC. it has a spring fed creek that i want to harness for hydro power. your vids have been helpful and inspiring
Musician and sound guy here... if you put bats (pressed rockwool) on the doors of turbine house, as well as at the top and back and between the turbines... all this will lower your sound levels significantly. If you want to lower it to almost nothing, you can build a house around that house and you will not hear it to your house. Thank you for the video.
As an electrician here is a nifty trick when you have to run long wires from your powerplant to your house. You can save on wire thickness and transmission losses if you put a transformer next to your generator and up the voltage where you generate. Depending on the lenght it can massively decrease the loss of energy and voltage drop by increasing the voltage and thus lowering the amps that go through the wire. Maybe even let you get away with thinner wire which saves some money. The cost might need to be calculated. There is some math involved on how much your generator can produce at what voltage and what lenght of wire runs to your house to figure out if your selected wire will have a voltage drop. That is how the main grid works, thats why overland lines run on multiples of thousands of volts. In germany the safe low voltage is 50V. You are not required to ground or safeguard in that case. 12V to 50V transformers in a reasonable watt range should be around 40-50$. For example for a 500 W output at 12 V with a lenght of 50 meters you will have a drop of 5V with a 12mm² diameter cable. If you transform it up to 50V beforehand you only get a drop of 1V, or respectively if you want to reduce the diameter and accept that 5V drop you would only need a 3mm² cable. I don't know what voltage his turbines output, but if those are 12V turbines using 10Gauge wire which is approximately 5mm² diameter over 60 meters, his voltage drop and wattage loss is insanely big. In essence in order to be effective with that length and wire thickness his turbines would have to output 120V which I very much doubt.
@@doncoolman6457Yeah you are right but these turbines put out 110V AC already I believe or 220-240, so my point is useless anyways. Unless you DIY something and use an obscure motor with lower voltage to begin with.
Voltage drop isn't determined by AC or DC, it is determined by resistance. For any given voltage, the drop will be the same for AC or DC across the same resistance.
Using a transformer isn't easy, as the AC frequency from turbines varies with their RPM. This could be fixed by installing the electronics and any battery storage in the turbine housing. Then you could run the output of the inverter with its stable 50/60Hz to the house. But having electronics and batteries in the turbine housing is hardly ideal, and doesn't work well with additional rooftop solar. Another solution is to get generators with high kv (wound with many turns of thin wire, not few turns of thick wire). That makes high voltage all on its own. Downside is the charge controller needs to deal with high voltage. Solar charge controllers can sometimes handle 1000V tough, so maybe feasible.
We have layed poly/hdpe coiled 2" pipe in below 30 degree weather. All you need to straighten it out is a weed burner on a propane tank. Way easier to straighten out the ends for your fittings you were talking about. We've always used solid brass Ford compression fittings. They seem to have superior pull apart resistance.
I love the installation, it makes me dream of having that kind of a setup. Quick note though, DC is actually more efficient than AC for power transmission. The only reason we still use AC for power transmission is cost.
@@MrMesVentes I promise you I am 100% right and all you have to do is look up Edison vs Tesla to correct yourself. But I digress as teaching the ignorant is a foolish endeavor.
Thanks so much for this video. Awesome content. I live in the UK, but would like to do something like this in my retirement. I doubt I would have the geological drop required for Hydro, although we do get a lot of rain, so all I need is a stream I guess! Amazing tips, including all the search protection features. :)
Cool stuff. Looks like you are incredibly close to being able to go off grid. I would imagine with 800w 24/7 you could throw 4kw of solar down and with double the battery's you are going to add be off grid even through a cloudy day
7:12 You can use knots that lock onto a pipe (pipe hitch or similar). Maybe wrap sandpaper around the pipe with the sand side to the pipe. Maybe make double sided sandpaper. Or some of these ring clamps to prevent the rope from slipping over time.
For the plumbing at the turbines, I would of stayed at 4" of the piping and only drop down to 2" at the turbines. That would of minimized any resistance up to the last moment. So basically, 4" to the house, then use a Tee, with one port going to the 1st turbine. From the tee-off use a bell reducer to the 1st turbine. Then continue down with 4" until the next tee-off, 1 port for the 2nd turbine, and the other port for the cleanout. bell reducers, duct reducer, goes by several names. Basically it's not a hard transition, but sloped, like a funnel. Here's one model for a 4" x 3" Duct Reducer (1034-RC-0403). Costs about $80, but can handle well over 100psi. With some searching, one can find lower priced reducers. Considering these are funnel shaped, they will create the least amount of resistance as the water passes. This saved energy goes directly to your turbines.
Very similar to my own system : 3" fusion welded HDPE, 147' of fall in 1/4 mile, a two nozzle 24 VDC Harris Hydro running 7'16 nozzles yields about 830 watts going to into the grid, 34 amps @ 24 VDC. My intake is positioned under a county culvert at the top of my property line, no dirt work or other prep required, I lucked out! The state water board gets testy when ANY moving dirt around a stream takes place, so I didn't. Coanada screen box also, almost trouble free, as good as a hydro intakes gets, 16 years in operation, for 9 months out of the year.
I am just wondering if you had a PMA with a higher output voltage coupled with a Midnite classic charge controller, then you would have a higher transmission voltage and the ability to program the power curve to increase the efficiency of the turbine or is this not necessary with hydro 🤔
The main thing I need to know before I construct my project is, Does the pressure in the pipe help prevent the water from freezing or does it enhance the water to freeze quicker. I am aware of the fact that moving water will tend to keep flowing.
Higher pressure lowers the freezing point slightly. What mainly stops it from freezing is that their temperatures are mild and it would take a long time to freeze the water, plus the water is only in the pipe for less than 4 minutes at that flow rate.
Is there any reason why the rectifiers can’t live in the turbine house? Wouldn’t it be more efficient to rectify the AC at the generation source and then transmit high voltage DC.
@@Jack-ht5ziNo, DC would be much better, he even has them in series after rectification. If he had the rectifiers in the turbine house it would reduce wire losses by 75%
@@Jack-ht5zi He has 6 wires from the turbines to the house, 3 wires for each turbine. The wires are carrying 1x voltage and 2x current. For a practical example suppose each turbine generates 100V and 4A, the wires are carrying 100V and 8A from both turbines. Then in the house he rectifies the power and puts them in series, to get 200V 4A DC. If he had the rectifiers in the turbine house, he could series them there and transmit 200V 4A in the long wire run (2x voltage and 1x current), using 3 wires in parallel for positive and 3 for negative. When you lower the current by half, the voltage drop falls by half, so the power lost falls to one quarter of what it was (half of a half) DC vs AC for transmission here is the same. AC is slighlty worse due to impedance from inductance and capacitive losses, and the skin effect but none of these issues are significant in a system this size
Love to pick you brain. I am planning my NC mountain system. So much info on You Tube I can't filter out exactly what I need do, where to buy Pipe, pen stock etc. Any help would be appreciated.
I’ve got a 10 acre lake but only 10’ of head. I can release a full 2” stream continuously or up to a 4” stream 6 or more months out of the year. I use a 2” hydraulic ram to fill 1000 gallon water tanks to water the gardens with water from the bottom of the lake. I only have to run it a couple hours every couple of weeks. I was wondering what type of low head turbine you would recommend. I would need as high an AC voltage as possible as I would have to run wire a quarter mile or more. Having an additional power source when it’s cloudy for several days would be nice.
First, nice system! But a nit to pick is that AC and DC will have the same voltage drop for the same voltage and wire size. The advantage AC has is that a transformer can be used to easily change the voltage. But it is incorrect to say that AC has less voltage drop than DC.
Couldn't help noticing you replaced your pvc ball valves with brass gate valves. The plumbing industry both residential and industrial has gone to BALL valves. Good quality ones have a bonnet nut that can be loosened if they get too stiff. I've always found gate valves very unreliable in the long run and cost more.. I admire your dedication and keep up the good work.
Higher voltage = less 'power' loss over transmission lines. But you'd need transformers at both ends & wire able to deal with higher voltages & be insulated.
Im trying to build a similar system but cant find the 3 inch poly and the extrnal couplers, can you share where you sourced the pipe and couplers? Thanks.
Brass valves should be at 45 degrees or higher…sediment can get lounged in the gate…the fittings I see are drainage fittings, not made for pressure systems
Spreading out a bag of bentonite clay might be worth trying to resolve the water leaching under the dam. It's cheap and most water well drillers can sell you a bag.
@16:00, this is wrong. AC and DC drop the same. However often you have more loss on DC because you use a lower voltage, therefore a higher current. Current and resistance create losses. losses W = I²xR Notice that the formula make no mention of AC or DC, just current and resistance. You have a secondary loss on AC: capacitance to ground. While not a major one, it can limit the power output due to the power factor that it screw up. On DC the capacitance actually help you: it provide a bit of help for noise and peaks. Very minimal in both cases.
9:10 he brings up freezing temperatures, how does he handle -10 degree temperatures and water freezing during winter? As fair as the pipe, the pipe busting, water freezing at the top of the dam.
Editing critique: show more of what is being talked about over the person talking. The camera refusing to pan to what this man is talking about is maddening.
Actually DC energy transmission is more efficient than AC, this is why some countries are experimenting with ultra high voltage DC transmission lines. The problem with it is that you have to have active electronics to step up and down the voltage and that is expensive and fiddly, with AC you can just use a normal transformer.
No that’s wrong, the drop associate with dc over distance is the problem. This was established a long time ago by Tesla and Edison. Edison’s system was dc and it would have required a power station every 6 miles or so if memory serves, although I think that’s pretty optimistic.
@@Jack-ht5zi The reason that was an issue hundreds of yeas ago was because at the time there was no efficient and practical way to change the voltage so it was used as it was generated say 150V, at that voltage the conductors would have to be unreasonably thick and expensive to go beyond a few hundred yards, however at higher voltages less current is needed to transmit the same amount of power therefore smaller conductors and longer distances but you cannot use high voltages at home or in most industry. What made AC triumph over DC at the time was the fact a transformer ( very simple and very efficient machine (over 95% efficiency)) can be used to change the voltage, to very high voltages so it can be transmitted long distances with relatively thin conductors then stepped down were it is used with another transformer. The reason why that is different today is because now we have high voltage power semiconductors, they enable us to turn the high voltage DC into AC very efficiently though its still expensive. At extremely long distances the capacitive and inductive loses in power lines become a significant loss with AC specially if they are underwater lines, with DC that does not happen so it makes sense to use very high voltage DC when transmitting lots of power over very large distances.
I think he needs to try different turbans. Perhaps the crossflow, or a modified Francis turban, or the turgo, my favorite. Or the low speed vortex, turning flow into torque. Some people generate at about 600 vac.,the transform down at the batteries. This is because the #10 wire is rated for that voltage and there are smaller losses at 600vac. Now days, application of inverter technology might help.
Serious question why run a well pump when you have the stream you could place a secondary tank down stream of your damn and catch extra water then pipe down off the mountain to your house that’s how we ran my uncles setup best water pressure I ever seen and all run from a stream that barely produced 5gpm
Instead of using flexible joints which are subject to failure it is better to put a 10’x10’ U shaped bend or leave a circular coil loop in you piping system every 100 feet or so. You can make the bends by using a hot air gun to heat the pipe being careful not to collapse the pipe.
He's blaming the PVC cement on his blowouts, when he is using DWV fittings only designed for low to no pressure systems. No wonder he's had "untold" amounts of them. Plus at 13:40 you can see a very clearly awful socket weld on that threaded adapter. I'm honestly surprised that one hasn't bust open yet. So much commitment and investment in building a big system like this, yet most people just don't bother to research basic methodologies.
DC actually has fewer losses than AC at the same voltage. I did some ruff calculations based on 3 phase AC with 2 x (3 x 10 gauge) wire over 200 feet at 192 Volt and 800 Watt. That results in a voltage drop of 0.96 % and 7.7W power loss. That's already very low, so it doesn't make a huge difference anyway.
You’re right, and once 3ph AC is ran through the bridge rectifier the DC voltage will be higher by a factor of 30-40% making the needed wire size to be even smaller yet, not to mention the fact you only need two instead of three wires!
LiFePO4 = "Lithium Iron Phosphate" not "LIfe Power 4" :-) Those 5.12kWh rack mount systems are an excellent value and perfect for your system. I'm super jealous of your system! I'd love to have 19.2kWh generated daily. Have you broken out cost, equipment needed, and your estimated ROI (return on investment)?
Yes I noticed Jay made that slip up when editing the video. The batteries are lifepo4. He did breakdown many of the components but I don't remember the total system cost.
Over to one side of that stream you need to start building the goddamn reservoir brother you say the winter is dry then you need some kind of reservoir to catch up some water for the slow times and have a different way to go into your pipe that way you can shut one valve off and open the other valve on the reservoir it's basically like a battery or would act like a battery it's your generator LOL
Could you imagine the size of that reservoir! Each day this system passes 288,000 gallons. An Olympic size swimming pool could supply 2 days of power to this system.
Can this idea works? example = you make 10 dams or tanks with 30 m3 of water each, with 1 turbine between each of the tanks means 10 turbines,water running from 1 to 10 on the last one you add big water pump, to pump water back to top on tank one,
It looks like the PMAs are rectified in the house then run in series to increase the overall DC voltage. This would cause a DC bias across the PMAs, leading to quicker electrolysis and corrosion. (Exactly what you're trying to prevent by rectifying in the house.) Can the PMAs each produce a high enough voltage that the inverter will accept one efficiently on it's own? If so, you'd be better off running the rectifiers in parallel, rather than series. This would remove the DC bias across the PMAs. If not, put the rectifiers in the generator house, put big DC filtering capacitors across the DC sides of the rectifiers to smooth out the voltage, and use all three conductors of one cable for the DC- run and all three conductors of the other cable for the DC+ run. Your generators would still be biased but the higher voltage DC going on the main wires would be more efficient than the lower voltages you've got now in AC. I'd be interested to see if you can put a multi-meter between both of your PMAs and detect a DC or AC voltage between their housings.
If those generate AC they are just regular old Permanent magnet motors, not alternators. Alternators produce DC current and arent nearly as efficient since they are made to cutoff a certain part of the coil to generate the right voltage regardless of RPM
Did you know I have a workshop channel?
www.youtube.com/@sethcraftworkshop
Please what is the cost of the system
Nice that someone actually cares about others and shares their secrets with the general public. Thank you.😊
Many thanks - just bought a property with 3 streams and hundreds of feet of drop. Can’t wait to get started on system! Lots of good info - thanks for sharing.
That is great! Sounds like you have room to make a good deal of power!
@@LandtoHouse will be reaching out for advice - take possession on Tuesday - 300 acres - has existing wind turbine towers - turbines long gone - battery room already in place including conduits to house for cross connect - for solar and wind - just need to add hydro 😄. Will take several years but will be awesome once brought back. Doing raised bed garden. Ram pumps for watering - love the idea of “free” water! 2500 sq ft of greenhouse- in need of repair but salvageable. Got enough projects for rest of my days on this rock! Thank you so much for info / great channel!
Jay seems easy to like. Thanks to him for the walk through and tour of his hydro system.
This guy should have a RUclips channel for sure
One quick note, is the metal boxes that the turbines are in should be wider so that there is minimal splash back, where the water will splash back in front of the turbine spoons and the turbine spoon will then smash through the loose falling water, slowing the turbines' rotation. When the box is much wider the water comes in through the jets at the same distance as they are now and the water hits the spoons on the turbine and then fly's off away from the turbine and does not splash back because of its fall curve down below and out the bottom, maximising rotation speed with no splash back to hinder the turbine's rotor. A way to further increase the chance of no splash back is to remove the corners of the box, go to a kitchen shop and buy a large wok or half sphere shaped metal salad mixing bowl and use that instead of the square box, this will help to minimise the splash back from corners.
Are the turbines water proof? Ok, the "spoons" are inside the metal box and the alternator is outside the metal box?
It's CRAZY how much that pipe expands and contracts if out in the open. Any metal flanges will gouge out trenches in whatever it's sitting on too.
The more I watched, the more I was continually impressed by it. Amazing what you can learn and your mind to something
15:57 It depends on the voltage. For extreme long distances DC is the way to go. Very long AC lines have losses because of the large capacity to earth. This is nothing to worry about in a system like this. Usually you prefer AC because you can easily convert its voltage down or up with transformers. I think the brushless power generators put out AC naturally otherwise they would need brushes and a "commutator". If the generators put out high voltage you are fine, the losses are low. Double the voltage means you need half the current for the same power, means half the voltage drop over the conductor and the power loss is half the volts times half the amps equals 1/4 of the power loss.
Very interesting points covered in a very professional manner, I am just about to commence with a similar set up here, having now retired in rural Tanzania. I only hope I can emulate the same.
This is a WONDERFUL video! Thank you for all the information. I've learned more in these 30 mins then I have in days of research. I will say I was kinda let down when I found out the growatt uses so much energy. seemed to be a good affordable option that I was actually looking at.
love your content! recently purchased a property near Flat Rock, NC. it has a spring fed creek that i want to harness for hydro power. your vids have been helpful and inspiring
Happy to be an inspiration. Congratulations on the property. Flowing water was the first thing I looked for when buying land.
Musician and sound guy here... if you put bats (pressed rockwool) on the doors of turbine house, as well as at the top and back and between the turbines... all this will lower your sound levels significantly. If you want to lower it to almost nothing, you can build a house around that house and you will not hear it to your house.
Thank you for the video.
As an electrician here is a nifty trick when you have to run long wires from your powerplant to your house. You can save on wire thickness and transmission losses if you put a transformer next to your generator and up the voltage where you generate. Depending on the lenght it can massively decrease the loss of energy and voltage drop by increasing the voltage and thus lowering the amps that go through the wire. Maybe even let you get away with thinner wire which saves some money. The cost might need to be calculated. There is some math involved on how much your generator can produce at what voltage and what lenght of wire runs to your house to figure out if your selected wire will have a voltage drop.
That is how the main grid works, thats why overland lines run on multiples of thousands of volts.
In germany the safe low voltage is 50V. You are not required to ground or safeguard in that case. 12V to 50V transformers in a reasonable watt range should be around 40-50$.
For example for a 500 W output at 12 V with a lenght of 50 meters you will have a drop of 5V with a 12mm² diameter cable. If you transform it up to 50V beforehand you only get a drop of 1V, or respectively if you want to reduce the diameter and accept that 5V drop you would only need a 3mm² cable.
I don't know what voltage his turbines output, but if those are 12V turbines using 10Gauge wire which is approximately 5mm² diameter over 60 meters, his voltage drop and wattage loss is insanely big.
In essence in order to be effective with that length and wire thickness his turbines would have to output 120V which I very much doubt.
DC will has less voltage drop over distance than AC. At 200 ft, simply uping the wire size to #8 gauge, for AC is all that's needed.
@@doncoolman6457Yeah you are right but these turbines put out 110V AC already I believe or 220-240, so my point is useless anyways. Unless you DIY something and use an obscure motor with lower voltage to begin with.
Voltage drop isn't determined by AC or DC, it is determined by resistance. For any given voltage, the drop will be the same for AC or DC across the same resistance.
Using a transformer isn't easy, as the AC frequency from turbines varies with their RPM. This could be fixed by installing the electronics and any battery storage in the turbine housing. Then you could run the output of the inverter with its stable 50/60Hz to the house. But having electronics and batteries in the turbine housing is hardly ideal, and doesn't work well with additional rooftop solar.
Another solution is to get generators with high kv (wound with many turns of thin wire, not few turns of thick wire). That makes high voltage all on its own. Downside is the charge controller needs to deal with high voltage. Solar charge controllers can sometimes handle 1000V tough, so maybe feasible.
@@oznerol256 A transformer for 50/60 Hz would work suitably across a range of frequency.
Great look into the details of this system and the lessons learned.
Amazing video, I love how this man gets into great detail....Thank you sir!!!
This was a good install. Nice to see the details of a hydro unit.
@LandtoHouse thanks for the reply... Hey how are you guys in North Carolina? I bet quite a few folks lost their micro setups.
IM in IT and that Schinder system is nice..they have come a long way with there ups's.
Nice setup and excellent video. Thank you! Lots of helpful info.
We have layed poly/hdpe coiled 2" pipe in below 30 degree weather. All you need to straighten it out is a weed burner on a propane tank. Way easier to straighten out the ends for your fittings you were talking about. We've always used solid brass Ford compression fittings. They seem to have superior pull apart resistance.
I love the installation, it makes me dream of having that kind of a setup. Quick note though, DC is actually more efficient than AC for power transmission. The only reason we still use AC for power transmission is cost.
Wrong, we use ac because it’s able to cover long distances without the voltage drop associated with dc.
@@Jack-ht5zi you don't know what you're talking about. Do better.
@@MrMesVentes I promise you I am 100% right and all you have to do is look up Edison vs Tesla to correct yourself. But I digress as teaching the ignorant is a foolish endeavor.
You're backwards
@@mrmotofy prove it then.
That is a nice setup. Loved that you used rockwool:) you need more of it :)
Thanks so much for this video. Awesome content. I live in the UK, but would like to do something like this in my retirement. I doubt I would have the geological drop required for Hydro, although we do get a lot of rain, so all I need is a stream I guess! Amazing tips, including all the search protection features. :)
Thank you from Switzerland
Cool stuff. Looks like you are incredibly close to being able to go off grid. I would imagine with 800w 24/7 you could throw 4kw of solar down and with double the battery's you are going to add be off grid even through a cloudy day
7:12 You can use knots that lock onto a pipe (pipe hitch or similar). Maybe wrap sandpaper around the pipe with the sand side to the pipe. Maybe make double sided sandpaper. Or some of these ring clamps to prevent the rope from slipping over time.
Very cool tour provided by Jay. Thanks for lookieloo!
Bravo, elle est vachement bien cette installation😅😅👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The garden shed is the best.
You can lower your tubine in that swoop so the elevation compensates for the direction change. It will help some
Very nice info. Will try to use this idea in Mindanao, Philippines
With a torch or heat gun, you can soften the pipe at the "coil" so that you do not need to waste
For the plumbing at the turbines, I would of stayed at 4" of the piping and only drop down to 2" at the turbines. That would of minimized any resistance up to the last moment.
So basically, 4" to the house, then use a Tee, with one port going to the 1st turbine. From the tee-off use a bell reducer to the 1st turbine.
Then continue down with 4" until the next tee-off, 1 port for the 2nd turbine, and the other port for the cleanout.
bell reducers, duct reducer, goes by several names. Basically it's not a hard transition, but sloped, like a funnel. Here's one model for a 4" x 3" Duct Reducer (1034-RC-0403). Costs about $80, but can handle well over 100psi. With some searching, one can find lower priced reducers.
Considering these are funnel shaped, they will create the least amount of resistance as the water passes. This saved energy goes directly to your turbines.
Very similar to my own system : 3" fusion welded HDPE, 147' of fall in 1/4 mile, a two nozzle 24 VDC Harris Hydro running 7'16 nozzles yields about 830 watts going to into the grid, 34 amps @ 24 VDC. My intake is positioned under a county culvert at the top of my property line, no dirt work or other prep required, I lucked out! The state water board gets testy when ANY moving dirt around a stream takes place, so I didn't. Coanada screen box also, almost trouble free, as good as a hydro intakes gets, 16 years in operation, for 9 months out of the year.
Great video. Thanks!
Nice job sir.
Thank you.
I am just wondering if you had a PMA with a higher output voltage coupled with a Midnite classic charge controller, then you would have a higher transmission voltage and the ability to program the power curve to increase the efficiency of the turbine or is this not necessary with hydro 🤔
HDPE pipes are UV sensitive, so a little trench or embankment would help in longevity of the pipe. I think the same with PVC pipes as well.
Excellent information! Thank you!
Any vidio on pump storage water mini turbine(electricity genrate by water recycling method)
Using pressure pvc fittings rather then dwv fitting will help prevent blowouts
Would gate valves not be the best option in PVC or other plastic down at the spits to the turbine?
The main thing I need to know before I construct my project is, Does the pressure in the pipe help prevent the water from freezing or does it enhance the water to freeze quicker. I am aware of the fact that moving water will tend to keep flowing.
Also, please provide some tips of how to stop the water from freezing in the pipe.
Higher pressure lowers the freezing point slightly. What mainly stops it from freezing is that their temperatures are mild and it would take a long time to freeze the water, plus the water is only in the pipe for less than 4 minutes at that flow rate.
Is there any reason why the rectifiers can’t live in the turbine house? Wouldn’t it be more efficient to rectify the AC at the generation source and then transmit high voltage DC.
i caught that he said they send it as AC because DC current drops quickly over distance. At 16.00 minutes in.
Too much voltage drop with dc.
@@Jack-ht5ziNo, DC would be much better, he even has them in series after rectification. If he had the rectifiers in the turbine house it would reduce wire losses by 75%
@@nirodper please explain that to me.
@@Jack-ht5zi He has 6 wires from the turbines to the house, 3 wires for each turbine. The wires are carrying 1x voltage and 2x current. For a practical example suppose each turbine generates 100V and 4A, the wires are carrying 100V and 8A from both turbines.
Then in the house he rectifies the power and puts them in series, to get 200V 4A DC.
If he had the rectifiers in the turbine house, he could series them there and transmit 200V 4A in the long wire run (2x voltage and 1x current), using 3 wires in parallel for positive and 3 for negative.
When you lower the current by half, the voltage drop falls by half, so the power lost falls to one quarter of what it was (half of a half)
DC vs AC for transmission here is the same. AC is slighlty worse due to impedance from inductance and capacitive losses, and the skin effect but none of these issues are significant in a system this size
Love to pick you brain. I am planning my NC mountain system. So much info on You Tube I can't filter out exactly what I need do, where to buy Pipe, pen stock etc. Any help would be appreciated.
I’ve got a 10 acre lake but only 10’ of head. I can release a full 2” stream continuously or up to a 4” stream 6 or more months out of the year. I use a 2” hydraulic ram to fill 1000 gallon water tanks to water the gardens with water from the bottom of the lake. I only have to run it a couple hours every couple of weeks.
I was wondering what type of low head turbine you would recommend. I would need as high an AC voltage as possible as I would have to run wire a quarter mile or more. Having an additional power source when it’s cloudy for several days would be nice.
overshot waterwheel
Checkout the 500w vertical turbine on youtube
Great engineering
Great video. I would like to have seen the inside of one of the turbines though.
Thank you. I have a few other hydro videos that show the pma better.
First, nice system! But a nit to pick is that AC and DC will have the same voltage drop for the same voltage and wire size. The advantage AC has is that a transformer can be used to easily change the voltage. But it is incorrect to say that AC has less voltage drop than DC.
QUESTION: Does Jay have a web site, youtube channel, or any other info, so we can follow him on the internet???
Couldn't help noticing you replaced your pvc ball valves with brass gate valves. The plumbing industry both residential and industrial has gone to BALL valves. Good quality ones have a bonnet nut that can be loosened if they get too stiff. I've always found gate valves very unreliable in the long run and cost more.. I admire your dedication and keep up the good work.
Am living on a flat land not near a river or a canal can I uses a deep water well to used as my water supply
For the leaky intake he could use bentonite clay
AKA clumping kitty litter
No. Lol. I’m a well driller. And I’m here to tell you. Don’t mess with that nasty stuff 😂😂
Seth has a sediment settlement tank. I didn't see one on your system, is that correct?
1st one ive seen where they have actually used containment for the AC
How do you feel about PEX vs. PVC?
Higher voltage = less 'power' loss over transmission lines. But you'd need transformers at both ends & wire able to deal with higher voltages & be insulated.
Dc doesn’t have the ability to be stepped up or down via a transformer, ac only.
Inst it better to have some kind of splitter that splits main pipe into 2, 40 degree left and right then using 90 degree splitter?
Have you considered a holding tank?
What happens in freezing weather? How does ice affect your flow, etc?
Nice project..👍
Im trying to build a similar system but cant find the 3 inch poly and the extrnal couplers, can you share where you sourced the pipe and couplers? Thanks.
Brass valves should be at 45 degrees or higher…sediment can get lounged in the gate…the fittings I see are drainage fittings, not made for pressure systems
Yep. He's blaming the cement on his "untold amount of blowouts" when he's using DWV fittings. 🤦
Spreading out a bag of bentonite clay might be worth trying to resolve the water leaching under the dam. It's cheap and most water well drillers can sell you a bag.
@16:00, this is wrong. AC and DC drop the same. However often you have more loss on DC because you use a lower voltage, therefore a higher current. Current and resistance create losses.
losses W = I²xR
Notice that the formula make no mention of AC or DC, just current and resistance.
You have a secondary loss on AC: capacitance to ground. While not a major one, it can limit the power output due to the power factor that it screw up.
On DC the capacitance actually help you: it provide a bit of help for noise and peaks. Very minimal in both cases.
What do you have 75-ish psi at the bottom of the hill?
9:10 he brings up freezing temperatures, how does he handle -10 degree temperatures and water freezing during winter?
As fair as the pipe, the pipe busting, water freezing at the top of the dam.
Editing critique: show more of what is being talked about over the person talking. The camera refusing to pan to what this man is talking about is maddening.
I have 10 or so other hydro installs on the channel. They might have more of what you are looking for.
Actually DC energy transmission is more efficient than AC, this is why some countries are experimenting with ultra high voltage DC transmission lines. The problem with it is that you have to have active electronics to step up and down the voltage and that is expensive and fiddly, with AC you can just use a normal transformer.
No that’s wrong, the drop associate with dc over distance is the problem. This was established a long time ago by Tesla and Edison. Edison’s system was dc and it would have required a power station every 6 miles or so if memory serves, although I think that’s pretty optimistic.
@@Jack-ht5zi The reason that was an issue hundreds of yeas ago was because at the time there was no efficient and practical way to change the voltage so it was used as it was generated say 150V, at that voltage the conductors would have to be unreasonably thick and expensive to go beyond a few hundred yards, however at higher voltages less current is needed to transmit the same amount of power therefore smaller conductors and longer distances but you cannot use high voltages at home or in most industry. What made AC triumph over DC at the time was the fact a transformer ( very simple and very efficient machine (over 95% efficiency)) can be used to change the voltage, to very high voltages so it can be transmitted long distances with relatively thin conductors then stepped down were it is used with another transformer.
The reason why that is different today is because now we have high voltage power semiconductors, they enable us to turn the high voltage DC into AC very efficiently though its still expensive. At extremely long distances the capacitive and inductive loses in power lines become a significant loss with AC specially if they are underwater lines, with DC that does not happen so it makes sense to use very high voltage DC when transmitting lots of power over very large distances.
It is a long video, but short for those who wants to build one.
Btw, I am proud of myself for guessing right what "pool liner" was.
I think he needs to try different turbans.
Perhaps the crossflow, or a modified Francis turban, or the turgo, my favorite.
Or the low speed vortex, turning flow into torque.
Some people generate at about 600 vac.,the transform down at the batteries. This is because the #10 wire is rated for that voltage and there are smaller losses at 600vac.
Now days, application of inverter technology might help.
The word you are looking for is that your rubber gaskets act as expansion joints 😂
I'd been following you for a long time, i'm from philippines and wondering where can i buy those hydro set up?... Thanks
Where can I get one mini hydro for me??
Serious question why run a well pump when you have the stream you could place a secondary tank down stream of your damn and catch extra water then pipe down off the mountain to your house that’s how we ran my uncles setup best water pressure I ever seen and all run from a stream that barely produced 5gpm
I think Jay could optimize his system a little by taking the turbine feeds directly off a 3" pipe. Hopefully he can find fittings for that.
Nice system..
How many volt dc out put
from your rectifier?
At 28 minutes in to the video you'll see on the screen of the computer 190 volts under load so the open circuit voltage should be over 200
@@SpencerLAPower
Thanks mate..im trying to build my own hydro system,
your videos helps me alot,
greetings from north borneo..
I wonder about the part/cost for the system?
If it can help You Every 90 degrees you have you can use 2 45 degree or 4 12,5 inches degre so you will reduce by far the drag
como é esse protetor contra surtos?
Long radius elbows help
Parabéns! Onde posso comprar esse alternador? Obrigado e um abraço da Amazônia no Brasil
Instead of using flexible joints which are subject to failure it is better to put a 10’x10’ U shaped bend or leave a circular coil loop in you piping system every 100 feet or so. You can make the bends by using a hot air gun to heat the pipe being careful not to collapse the pipe.
Hello where can the 1000 feet of 3 inch pvc pipe be gotten?
My local plumbing store can order it. Not sure of a place that keeps it in stock.
Why not using Pelton Turbine?
Because this turbine works for them.
'Kris Harbour' built his intake similar this 😎
He's blaming the PVC cement on his blowouts, when he is using DWV fittings only designed for low to no pressure systems. No wonder he's had "untold" amounts of them. Plus at 13:40 you can see a very clearly awful socket weld on that threaded adapter. I'm honestly surprised that one hasn't bust open yet.
So much commitment and investment in building a big system like this, yet most people just don't bother to research basic methodologies.
DC actually has fewer losses than AC at the same voltage.
I did some ruff calculations based on 3 phase AC with 2 x (3 x 10 gauge) wire over 200 feet at 192 Volt and 800 Watt.
That results in a voltage drop of 0.96 % and 7.7W power loss.
That's already very low, so it doesn't make a huge difference anyway.
You’re right, and once 3ph AC is ran through the bridge rectifier the DC voltage will be higher by a factor of 30-40% making the needed wire size to be even smaller yet, not to mention the fact you only need two instead of three wires!
Your calculations are wrong. Run a dc supply through 2 10 gauge wires that’s 200ft long and tell me what the drop is. I’ll wait.
How many AH iare the batteries?
Those eg4 are 100ah.
Mantap 👍
This would be good for my country Nigeria 🇳🇬 BUT THE GOVERNMENT 🤦🏻♂️
Wow
LiFePO4 = "Lithium Iron Phosphate" not "LIfe Power 4" :-) Those 5.12kWh rack mount systems are an excellent value and perfect for your system.
I'm super jealous of your system! I'd love to have 19.2kWh generated daily. Have you broken out cost, equipment needed, and your estimated ROI (return on investment)?
Yes I noticed Jay made that slip up when editing the video. The batteries are lifepo4.
He did breakdown many of the components but I don't remember the total system cost.
Why an inverter?
This pma generates wild 3 phase AC. The power has to go from that to DC then to 120v 60hz ac.
Over to one side of that stream you need to start building the goddamn reservoir brother you say the winter is dry then you need some kind of reservoir to catch up some water for the slow times and have a different way to go into your pipe that way you can shut one valve off and open the other valve on the reservoir it's basically like a battery or would act like a battery it's your generator LOL
Could you imagine the size of that reservoir! Each day this system passes 288,000 gallons. An Olympic size swimming pool could supply 2 days of power to this system.
Your manifold is restricting. it should be full-size pipe and the t off to the smaller size.
Rent or buy a pipe welder they are the joint.
Use a weed burner to straighten it out
Can this idea works? example = you make 10 dams or tanks with 30 m3 of water each, with 1 turbine between each of the tanks means 10 turbines,water running from 1 to 10 on the last one you add big water pump, to pump water back to top on tank one,
You can have cascading turbines but the pump on the end will use all the power and then some.
It looks like the PMAs are rectified in the house then run in series to increase the overall DC voltage. This would cause a DC bias across the PMAs, leading to quicker electrolysis and corrosion. (Exactly what you're trying to prevent by rectifying in the house.) Can the PMAs each produce a high enough voltage that the inverter will accept one efficiently on it's own? If so, you'd be better off running the rectifiers in parallel, rather than series. This would remove the DC bias across the PMAs. If not, put the rectifiers in the generator house, put big DC filtering capacitors across the DC sides of the rectifiers to smooth out the voltage, and use all three conductors of one cable for the DC- run and all three conductors of the other cable for the DC+ run. Your generators would still be biased but the higher voltage DC going on the main wires would be more efficient than the lower voltages you've got now in AC. I'd be interested to see if you can put a multi-meter between both of your PMAs and detect a DC or AC voltage between their housings.
If those generate AC they are just regular old Permanent magnet motors, not alternators. Alternators produce DC current and arent nearly as efficient since they are made to cutoff a certain part of the coil to generate the right voltage regardless of RPM