Inside the Libertarian Party’s wild convention
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- The Libertarian Party's controversial plan is to "stop Biden" and extract promises from Trump along the way.
reason.com/vid...
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How did the Libertarian Party Convention become a campaign stop for candidates with wildly anti-libertarian views? This year's speakers included Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who once called for jailing so-called climate deniers, and former president Donald Trump, a rabid opponent of free trade who added $8 trillion to the U.S. debt.
The primary goal of the new Libertarian Party isn't winning national elections, which Heise considers delusional, but to leverage its ability to draw enough votes to swing the election. Through its "spoiler status," the hope is that the L.P. can extract concessions and gain influence.
This year's convention, held in Washington, D.C., in July, was the first major test of the new strategy.
Video Producer: Zach Weissmueller
Video Editor: Chris Sowick
Audio Production: Ian Keyser
Trying to get libertarians to agree on anything is like herding cats.
Depends on what is ask em. If you ask if US tax dollars should fund genocides and wars that have nothing to do with the US, then we all agree. I don’t know a single pro war libertarian and there’s one that exists it’s less than .25% of overall libertarians (and I’m being generous with that guess)
If you get libertarians in a room, everybody agrees on the big stuff: End the Fed, Free Trade, Don't hurt me or take my stuff... but we will quickly devolve into little persnickety things that can't be solved in our lifetime but we LOVE to argue about them.
@@johnnymac42069 you are correct, but that is one of the few things they agree on. I left the party years ago, although I have continued to vote L every year, till now. I am done with the party. Too many crazies that claim to be Libertarian for me to associate myself with them. If they put up a good candidate, I might vote for them, but not this year.
There should be _many_ different libertarian parties. Everyone: Start, join, or encourage new ones.
@@BrewsterMcBrewsteromg loll
The Libertarian party is wreck. They field nearly zero candidate at the local level where races are low cost, issues are local, and they could win. A Libertarian running in a local race on a platform of reducing the size of local gov't and reducing the regulations would be a slam dunk win, yet this party doesn't do that. It doesn't even attempt to build county level organizations to develop and assist candidates. There's really little hope for the Libertarian party other than being sort of a side show of non-sense.
The LP appears as if it were "The Marx Bros A Night At Opera & Ice Cube Are We There Yet." It is incurable and unbelievable. LP members vote for Donald J Trump👍🏻🇺🇸; this November if you have common sense and if you care to have a country left.
NY Democrats changed the ballot access rules to keep out 3rd party candidates.
The Mises Caucus people who took them over in 2022 claim the intend to refocus the LP on local races. Which may be why the paid so little attention to recruiting a Mises aligned candidate to run for the prez nom, and their guy lost it even though they still won control of the natcom.
I agree
The LP used to run lots of local activists but the Mises caucus ran 2/3 of them out of the party and their near-gop base doesn't want to bother with running for office.
The LP is the perfect example of the perfect being the enemy of the good.
Trump isnt good.
That’s catchy, but it understates the case. The LP needs to stop letting anyone who cannot keep their utopian nonsense to themselves from speaking for the party.
Everything that gets discussed in official meetings and by representatives needs to be on a clear roadmap so voters can understand how the party would get us from where things actually are to where they should be. If the how and why cannot sell, just leave it for navel gazing sessions.
@@nunyabidness3075 Could not have said it better.
@@nunyabidness3075 which is why I stopped being a member 10 years ago.
So when your world open borders and Transit children is perfect
12:18 The guy holding the "MAGA = SOCIALIST" sign has publicly stated he will vote for Trump, because Chase Oliver is such a terrible candidate.
He's right.
@@odigity I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm just pointing out some context for that image. He thinks MAGA socialism is a better alternative than Chase Oliver. And I don't disagree.
I can't vote for Trump. One, he's an idiot. Two, Biden is actually waking more people up than Trump. I might vote for Biden.
Trump and Biden are both driving you to hell, Biden is just driving asleep with his full weight on the pedal
That's sad, but tbf the boomer mind virus tends to plague us all every once in a while. at least his sign is correct.
@@j4s0n39 What do you have against Chase Oliver? And I suppose, while I'm at it, I should ask: Why should Trump get another chance after screwing up the first time?
Rectenwald being high on an edible is the most hilarious and libertarian thing I have seen
From now on it's an adverb for me, "Man, he really messed up." "Yeah, he libertarianed it."
Dude " keep getting your 3% every 4 years" is such a funny line
It's the truth the LP needs to understand
POTUSTrump should consider taking the LP and converting it to a real "Constitutional Party". By taking over his 150-200; MAGA-members to LP. Vote early for DONALD J. TRUMP👍🏻🇺🇸!
It's a very unfortunate truth 😢 more people need to want more freedom
@@grantsterling3744 Dealing with you people is like herding cats. ONE EVER WINS; If I may please to you people of LP VOTE FOR DONALD J. TRUMP🇺🇸👍🏻!
In the long run, we're gonna win every election after one another. #Freedom #Liberty #Libertarianism #Patriotism
The party with the hardest purity tests hands down
I feel like Greens might be worse or Democratic Socalists.
Good
I Remember back when the LP used to stand against things like TSA. I guess they've learned to enjoy the pat downs at the airports. 🤣
What the fuck are you people talking about?
Libertarian Party ≠ Libertarian
It 100% is. We don't accommodate anyone but libertarians
@@TheKelseyand minarchists, anarchists, objectivists, and of course nut jobs.
A party is the make up of its membership.
Don't forget the tea party republicans and progressives.
@@nunyabidness3075stooges
The Libertarian Party should change its mascot from the Porcupine to the Ouroboros.
That would be fucking metal
Par for the course for a party of Libertine communists
Nah, the Ouroboros is a better mascot for the GOP, especially if the head is Trump's.
Colonel Klink
@@SirBlackReedsColonel Klink 🤖
Real libertarians are not collectivists, so there is no real libertarian party.
American Javier Melé! I voted Republican every single election, but you libertarians get your act together and get a Javier Malay, I’ll vote Libertarian in a heartbeat. Our government is bloated and obese and it needs a major procedure in order to survive.
Help out and we can. We're trying but if people just watch and don't help, you'll keep getting more Chase.
Had your chance to vote Vivek Ramaswamy.
It's impressive that you managed to misspell Milei's name in two very different ways.
Maybe after Donald Trump becomes president again before he settles into the serious business of making America great again.
Perhaps it would behoove Mr Trump to take two or three weeks and go on a diplomatic expedition to Argentina. Yeah, diplomatic mini vacation.:-)
@@richardbobb1878 Wait, a climate alarmist President would never fly a private jumbo jet to Ireland for vacation, or to France to give a speech, or to Georgia to give a mere commencement speech let alone Argentina. Pravda!
It was a smart move to invite other party candidates inclusion invites inclusion
It wasn't smart to invite Trump. He wants a top-down style of government. Not to mention that he had Jared "Slumlord Millionaire" Kushner lead his administration's COVID response.
Deadass it'd be awesome to see Trump at the DNC
No one needed Trump there. He wants to institute a top-down style of government. That's antithetical to liberty and Libertarianism.
It was my first Convention and it was a blast! Sure the results for our Presidential ticket did bot go the way I had hoped (and there are reasons for this that Reason did not mention in this mini-documentary), but I enjoyed the process very much. If you are thinking about joining the LP, I invite you to do so. And show up if you don’t like the direction of the Party. You do not have to join a Caucus. I have met some awesome people in all of the Caucuses and get along with most, even if we do not agree on everything (no Libertarian does, which is one of the things that I love about being Libertarian). So, join the LP and start by reading Bastiat.
If chase oliver doesn’t lean on the anti war message this campaign will be an absolute embarrassment
That's like his whole thing
"WILL BE" ? an embarrasment ? LMAO.
Already is.
Libertarians being "anti-war" makes as much sense as being "anti-police enforcement." There are things worth having the police enforce and there are things that are not. Similarly, there are things worth going to war over and there are things that are not. The simplistic, Ron Paul, pacifistic thinking among many libertarians throws out the good with the bad. The position should be in favor of a proper, principled foreign policy, rather than "war bad."
He will. Sadly he will call everything the mainstream media calls a war a war. Israel finding its hostages and freeing them will be a "war."
Mises Caucus: gets in power in the LP
LP: here’s Chase Oliver, he’s left of Biden
In no universe is Oliver left of Biden
@Justin_Beaver564 You mistook no universe for every universe. Easy mistake to make. Dude is into identity politics, and covid lockdowns. The only universe he makes sense in is if he was picked specifically not to get votes.
@@Justin_Beaver564On social policy he is
@@CowboyMikeShow So has the LP been since 1971
@@Justin_Beaver564 I more meant like culture war stuff like progressive rather than civil liberties
Chase Oliver was a terrible choice
He has no qualifications.
He’s a natural born citizen and over 35 years old. What other qualifications do you want?
Keep it as simple as the Founders intended.
He seems pretty libertarian to me. What's the problem?
@@infowarriorone he supports mandates and giving children puberty blockers
@@infowarriorone...it's Chase Oliver
Reading a comment section I didn't realize there were so many fucking progressives in the libertarian party. Holy shit
Yup, there are a lot of them.
@@Tonkarai Liberalism and Progressivism are not the same thing
Reason and its staff practically are progressives.
@Justin_Beaver564 They're literally incompatible opposites in fact.
@@Justin_Beaver564 dude the hole I'm a classical liberal argument fucking isn't a relevant fucking thing it's a non sequitur, because guess what the Liberals seeded control that word to the leftist, and you guys are more than happy to swim in the same cesspools. A Libertarian is not a liberal but there are plenty of Libertarians in this comment section who are indistinguishable from progressives
I'm a libertarian, a lot of my friends are libertarian or leaning in that direction. The LP is an absolute joke of a party.
I never want to hear Libertarians complain about anything as long as you keep presenting us with green party feminists and other pieces of shit. If I see one more official libertarian Party candidate who talks about equality and diversity and the patriarchy
Become a Delegate. Those who are complaining about the results did not show up! This was my first Convention experience and it was a blast (even though I was disappointed by the out come of our Presidential ticket). I will be going in 2026, where I hope to help remove the prostitution plank from our bylaws. Though I have no problem with consenting adults doing stuff, I do not think it needs to be promoted from our Platform. So start saving up your money and plan on coming to Grand Rapids as a Delegate in 2026! You will have fun.
@@Shua01 Grand Rapids Michigan? That's not far for me at all.
Incidentally, I've gotten really frustrated that the LP hasn't gone in stronger on movements to reform elections like having ranked choice voting. Or run more candidates in local races.
There is a group right here in the mitten called RankMiVote and the goal is to get a ballot initiative in 2026 that would switch to RCV statewide.
Ranked choice would help all third parties, not just the LP but I believe it would help make it easier to advance policies that have broad support. Because right now, only those who contribute massive amounts of money are getting what they want.
@@Knightmessenger You guys have that straight-ticket voting too don’t you? That is insane! The Michigan Libertarian Party is kind of split right now. There are two factions claiming to be the legitimate State Party, which has resulted in an ongoing lawsuit. I hope they get get everything worked out. I live in Ohio and for the most part, everyone gets along. Unfortunately our ballot access laws in Ohio are not kind to Libertarians! This is no thanks to the Ohio GOP who try to kick us off the ballot whenever they can. And then they expect Libertarians to vote for them.
Dude is a classically liberal capitalist who in his private life is gay, he abides by more libertarian principles then mises caucus's candidate.
@@Shua01 Legalizing sex work is an important fundamental difference between the Libertarians and the two major parties.
5:24 That's not an Israeli controlling the parties. That's a stereotypical Jew. If they had simply used the Israeli flag or colors on a non-stereotype person that would have been fine. Using the Jewish stereotype was racist.
I'm anti pc , and neutral on Israel/Palestine, that cartoon was definitely intended to be offensive imho
Come on they didn't use the "happy merchant" meme, it really isn't that bad.
Exactly. I'm first in line to defend comedy and political commentary, but wow, that wasn't criticizing Israel, it was hating on Jews.
That's blatant Jew hatred. I had not seen that before. Even if they had replaced the Hasidic Jew with some character identified as Israel, the trope is the same: "Thee Joos are behind a conspiracy; they control everything" This is just a variation on "it's all about the Benjamins." The only comical aspect is how close it is to Joseph Goebbels messaging while still so many defend it. People should be able create/print/publish it, and we should rightly shame them as Jew haters.
Reasontv, msnbc for libertarians
This is a master class in a lack of ability to grow and change.
There should be _a lot of_ different libertarian parties. Start, join, or encourage new ones.
@@user-wl2xl5hm7k i keep seeing this comment...lots of libertarian parties makes 0 sense. The whole purpose of a party is to have common goals and agreements. The problem with the Libertarians, is there are both conservative and liberal libertarians that swing very wide and cannot agree on basic things.
@@LaylaLawless Your arguing that lots of libertarian parties makes the _most_ sense!
You mistated your conclusion.
Part of the reason Chase Oliver won is because he and his supporters use some underhanded tactics it's not because they're a majority.
@@woodchuck003 False.
It was only Mike ter Maat who lied.
Ask Dave Smith.
Guess we forgot about Assange...
Who is "we"? *I* didn't.
I had the same thought during the convention. What about Assange and Snowden? Who the hell is this 'Ross' guy? #FreeHat
He's a spy
Cuz drugs bro
Trump’s team was not willing to discuss freeing Assange being it was his admin that pursued his arrest. We will take what we can get, and although it’s crucial that Julian Assange is free it’s also important that Ross is pardoned
A 3% party was offered cabinet positions and positions throughout the administrative state, and turned it down.
So stupid.
Some did *
the loud ones ran the room though.
No, what's stupid is taking Trump at his word because he says a lot of things.
"No, what's stupid is taking Trump at his word because he says a lot of things."
Ok but the choice is maybe something vs guaranteed nothing.
You chosen guaranteed nothing.
Thats stupid.
@@iamscoutstfu No one votes for the Libertarian Party because they want to win the presidential election. Voting libertarian serves a few purposes:
1) The LP helps spread the message and educate people about libertarianism.
2) The LP encourages other political parties to embrace libertarian concepts in order to appeal to LP voters.
3) The LP provides opportunities to strategically partner with politicians from other parties to support common goals.
The key thing you need to maintain a unique Libertarian Party identity and character to pursue these goals effectively. If the LP nominates Trump, then they have just been subsumed by the Republican party for temporary and dubiously valuable goals. Lots of Trump cabinet officials didn't last long, after all.
@@ElGeecho
You're not really qualified to tell me what being a libertarian is about.
That's what it's about to YOU. But that has no value to me.
There'll never be much libertarian anything happening anywhere so long as beltway "libertarians" have the money to prevent it.
Legal immigration is inviting someone to come to your house. At the front door during the day. Illegal immigration is a stranger sneaking into your house at 3AM through the window. Why is it so hard to understand?
That's a really good distinction. I'm going to use that. Thanks!
But I can't invite José from Honduras to come and stay at my house, can I? If he tries, won't you and millions of others try to stop both him and me? With force if necessary?
Well, it's untrue. Immigration controls are using men with guns to threaten your neighbor into excluding people from his property.
The national border isn't your house. You have property rights in your house, and this gives you the right to exclude people you choose to exclude. You do NOT have property rights in your neighbors house, and you do not have a right to tell him who can exclude.
@@JanBruunAndersenjan, your own personal desires for this country don't get the violate National law. What's that so hard to understand
@@jacquestube - Remember, the law only defines what is legal and what is illegal. It does not define what is right or wrong.
Im sorry, but open borders is a dumb idea. Not only that but is fundamentally a communist idea and shouldn't have any bearing in the libertarian philosophy. Also that idea came about back in the tea party rubilcan days when the Koch's went from that to supposedly becoming libertarian. Libertarians seem to either be corporatists or liberals wearing some kind of mask.
Your immigration philosophy depends on the idea that the state owns the country and thus can regulate the free interactions of hundreds of millions of people. You're the commie. Immigration is capitalism.
It's wild to me that some measure of border control is not viewed as a degree of freedom of association.
@@sipofsunscorchedsarsaparil6052 that's literally what it is. the open border types are either disingenuous cato-progressivist linos, or are advocating for private borders and don't know the difference.
@@sipofsunscorchedsarsaparil6052 I agree. Anyone who is pro open borders should rethink if they truly follow nap or not.
David Koch was the LP candidate for vice president in like 1980. Open borders is a controversial position within libertarian circles, but it has a long ideological history within the movement. See, e.g., Murray Rothbard.
Good for Smith for calling out Reason's left-like coverage of the Mises Caucus.
Yes, pointing out the racist edge of their social media accounts is so "left-like". I've now read Doherty's article twice -- it's not pro-Left, it's pro-liberty.
You mean ACCURATE coverage?
I'm sorry it wasn't fawning over the clusterfuck that is the post mises libertarian party.
Cause what we really need now.. is another woke like political party, hes trash
Therefore:
There should be _many_ different libertarian parties. Start, join, or encourage new ones.
@@user-wl2xl5hm7k you would think people might naturally vote for the libertarian candidates, then the government can focus on building the roads
@@stevez5134 Not sure what you mean
Only Conservatives think he's "woke"
@@user-wl2xl5hm7kHe probably means less foreign entanglements.
The LP is a total joke at this point.
Are you saying V-P candidate Spike was not serious about traveling back in time to kill Hitler and then installing Baby Yoda as V-P? What? Are you kidding? (LOL)
Have you seen the R’s and the D’s lately? Also a joke. If you do not like that Chase Oliver won the nomination, you should have become a Delegate at the National Convention. As a former Chair has said in the past, “The Party belongs to those who show up.” The next Convention is in Grand Rapids, MI in 2026! Show Up.
I have no problem with most of the views that libertarians hold, but the party is progressively going left, and they've lost me with honoring trans and pseudo pronouns and open borders
Just the opposite. The Mises Caucus are trying to turn it into a far right party.
People are just making pronouns up now!
Have you bothered to do the basic research on Trans rights or the history of the border with Mexico? I'll summarize them quickly, Trans rights allow people freedom of expression and open borders promote free trade.
@@kittenzrulz2314 Agreed. These people have no idea what libertarianism is.
@@Justin_Beaver564 They think Libertarianism is just Conservatism but edgy, they probably think that enforcing the police state is Libertarian too.
Chase Oliver is a nice person who wants to grow libertarian organizing. Angela and Michael and Dave (rape apologist) Smith are tiny people who need to control a small number of people with brutal ridicule and threat of banishment while they pretend to pursue liberty. Ron Paul was never like that and it's too bad he's too out of it to see what they are. I just hope the Oliver vibe brings in good activists who make the LP libertarian and democratic again.
Honestly seeing how ReasonTV keeps smearing and organizing against the Mises caucus makes me think they might actually be viable. I am considering switching party membership formally to LP more seriously than I ever have before.
The Mises Caucus wants to make the LP exist to serve Trump. That's why they reached out to him in the first place.
Imagine that here in the Land of the Free, the Freedom party is the underdog.
Maybe if they didn't nominate a commie.
The freedom party you speak of is too radical for most Americans to vote for and puts up, most times in recent memory, dismal nominees. Ultimately, suppose you are saying the party that stands for freedom and individualism is the underdog while not understanding that a party in and of itself is a collective, an affront to freedom and individualism. In that case, it dictates to its members what their individual members' values should be; if you do not like it, you can leave. How is any of that Libertarian? The actual Libertarian party is being Independent, where your views are your own. Your views can be changed due to research, conversation, and experience, not by some party man or woman telling you differently. You are not forcing your views on another; your neighbor has opinions that they, too, got through the same mode of conduct. In recent years, the LP has basically purged the Ron Paul types from the LP because it didn't jibe with the modern LP. What does that say about your freedom party, that they have canceled and removed people from the party they deem taboo.
@@notmousse he’s less a commie than anyone else running
People don’t actually want to be free
Land of the Fees and the Home of the Slaves
It's rather shocking reading through the comments. I've always been an independent but I align with libertarianism, and thus the party. However, things have changed so much from when I used to protest with libertarians. I never imagined that a modern libertarian would be so anti-LGBT+ that their principle arguments calling someone a "progressive" centers around them being involved in "Pride" events.
And yes, I do know there are other criticisms of Chase, but they are all extraordinarily weak in comparison to Trump, and usually involve laser focus on an individual aspect rather than the greater whole.
I remember when my collage libertarian group was protesting against war, and they called out everyone. They didn't let Bush off the hook because he was right wing, but now somehow this authoritarian PoS Trump is so great that every other principle can thrown in the trash. What the hell happened?
And that was a rhetorical question. Unfortunately, the LP has been infected with the same BS as the other parties. And the Mises Caucus is just an expression of this collective insanity.
The Mises Caucus criticizes Trump all the time. I’m not sure what you mean?
@vaughnmead2734 Criticizing a politician and building a campaign around supporting their candidacy by using your party's candidate to draw votes from someone else.
Between those two, one is vastly more relevant.
MC can whine as much as it wants on Twitter, but that doesn't change their desperation to prop up an authoritarian anti-libertarian.
They lost their opportunity with RFK they will continue to stay at 3% or less
Exactly. I think Chase is a fine candidate, but nobody will pay any attention to him. I will probably be voting for RFK myself. My one gripe with RFK is that he supports Israel. Everything else he gets right.
RFK is another pro-Israel stooge. What makes him so different from Trump or Biden? He's not a libertarian, he's a centrist.
@@mattbaron14 If you think it's better to support the caliphate, please look up Bill Warner on the history of islam. Or read the news from Europe. Or research the regular massacres of African Christians and Asian Hindus and Buddhists.
You should at least acknowledge that you're fawning before the bully, not playing the white knight you imagine.
I was a Ron Paul Libertarian. I voted Libertarian for years. I didn't agree with Gary Johnson on everything, but he was the last one I voted for. I can't support white guilt Jo Jorgenson or open boarders Chase Oliver. I'm just vote for Trump
So because Chase wants to have a new "Ellis Island" where people can come here without being barred by arbitrary quotas and the like, you're going to vote for an authoritarian anti-libertarian.
That seems odd on multiple levels, if you're an actual libertarian.
Same. I stopped following the LP after Johnson didn't know what Aleppo was on national television. When I came back, the LP was a zoo filled with leftists. The communists infiltrate everything. They use their enemies against them.
He wants to institute a top-down style of government and exceed his own spending record. What is wrong with you?
Chase Oliver is the worst candidate since Bob Barr. I won't vote for him.
IDK how Reason can be so hyper focused on the failings of the mises caucus and completely ignore the fact that the most powerful counter movements inside the libertarian party couldn't compete in the free market of ideas to thwart these so called right wing libertarians.
They've reported on how the mises caucus won many times. Would you rather they just not report on its continued failures?
I'm out. I'm not voting Libertarian this year. I'm considering starting a new party myself that is adjacent to Libertarian philosophy: Decentralization. As long as you're not violating anyone's rights, you can have whatever government you want at the local level. And to facilitate that, borders between localities and states must be fluid and constantly earned.
@@triplea7536 That's been tried before. It's not sustainable.
Why not join Reform Party, Alliance Party, Andrew Yang's Forward, or the American Solidarity Party?
Best comedic value: 20:44 when a statist chick tries to meme.
Not only are they in the car Brandon is driving...
She even put herself in Brandon's LAP!
i think we should add tariffs on bananas
What exactly do you think Trump is going to promise a guy who's in favour transing children, forced vaccination mandates, *very* libertarian btw, etc etc
Its more of a keg of gun-powder waiting to blow up in the Libertarian Party s faces, especially with the current Libertarian presidential candidate being less libertarian than the last one!
Someone is repeating lies. None of that is true.
I've never seen trans used as a verb before... kudos
@@michellemaccutcheon4813 Yea, it takes 5 minutes on twitter to figure out that these people are lying about Oliver, yet they all just believe the nonsense they repeat.
this is this libertarian candidate is an insult to real libertarians. What is next, pro-war, antis free speech?
I was going to support Trump regardless of who the Libertarian nominee was, but I don't dislike Chase Oliver. He is socially liberal rather than "woke," as many are characterizing him. He has repeatedly come out against pushing one's cultural views on others.
@@chesscomsupport8689 bot detected ^^^
@@chesscomsupport8689 Oliver supports giving puberty blockers to minors so he has completely lost any possibility of my consideration. All these butchers need to be expelled.
@@chesscomsupport8689 carrying a pride flag and wearing a rainbow shirt is pretty woke.
@@chesscomsupport8689 Pushing cultural views is having entire highschools of young girls not wanting people who are clearly men into their sports and watching them get pushed out and destroyed from their own bracket is the most absolute example of pushing a subjective cultural view onto others; given in any other facet it is biologically false in any objective lens.
I was a Delegate at this convention and though the results did not turn out how I had hoped, I had a blast! Joshua Smith was my first choice for the running for our Presidential nomination. I voted for him in the first three rounds and then when I saw he just wasn’t getting the numbers, I switched over to Michael Rectenwald (the Mises Caucus endorsed candidate) until the final round where I voted for NOTA (because I just could not bring myself to vote for Chase).
It was a close race and could have really gone either way, depending whom Mike ter Maat endorsed after being eliminated in the fifth round. He chose to go with Chase and so many of his supporters switched over to him. Also a factor was that the Classical Liberal Caucus kept stalling and many of the Mises Caucus members had to leave to catch their flights! We were voting until 1:30 AM, because of these shenanigans.
But, I enjoyed the process very much. If anyone is thinking about becoming a Delegate, I hope you will. And if you are not a member of the LP, I invite you to join.
I have a feeling it's gonna be lower turnout than 2020 or 2016. In trying to become nothing but a spoiler party they have spoiled the LP.
LP always was spoiled.
Lower turnout is the goal. The idea is that the LP can extract enough concessions from one of the major parties that libertarians are willing to vote for them. So that major party would now be more libertarian and have a higher chance of winning. And, obviously, that would require the Libertarian candidates themselves to receive fewer votes.
This debacle is why I’m not a registered libertarian. Chase Oliver is why I’m not voting libertarian.
Chase is why I am voting Libertarian this time
@@Justin_Beaver564 what policies of his are you all in for?
@@anerrantknight8077 Anti war, ending the Fed, ending the Department of Education, pro choice, pro gun rights, pro parental rights
Why isn’t Rand Paul on Trump’s VP shortlist?!
Because Rand Paul has actual integrity, and he's not a woman.
Chase Oliver pulled shady shit
_Not at all._
It was *Mike ter Maat* who literally committed fraud here. It’s even actionable fraud.
Ask Dave Smith what happened.
Not at all:
It was all *Mike ter Maat.*
Ask Dave Smith.
He's woke they are all unethical
You mean a politician out flanked a college professor who couldn't stop himself from getting high on edibles before a speech? Shocker
@@danielpoort649 So true.
Then why is Dave Smith and Angela so obsessed with Rectenwald? And so hateful of openly gay Oliver?? It’s gross. Dave Smith even _anti-endorsed_ Oliver.
Real libertarians who wish to be effective should Move to New Hampshire!
Wyoming.
I still support the Free State Wyoming movement.
New Hampshire is too freaking cold. We need a warmer state.
California Gold
Already here
What about New Mexico?
5 trillion 6 trillion 7 trillion 8 trillion, like every time somebody mentions the debt he added on keeps on increasing. Also, doesn't Congress control the budget? Like when Donald Trump was negotiating with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer he was wanting less than one trillion to give out stimulus checks and they told him unless he signs a 4 trillion bill he will not get anything.
It's called a veto pen. Instead, he used a pen to sign bumpstock ban and covid executive orders.
That nuance doesn’t matter. The LP of 2024 would boo Milton Friedman.
Thank you for having a memory. It was, as always, the spendthrift democrats who demanded an increase in spending from Trump. Libertarians seem to have no memory at all.
@@rubies200 operation Warp Speed, Bumpstock Ban, and not a single spending veto. Your boy is a Democrat.
So Trump was incompetent, willing to sell out to Dems, and forgot his veto pen? Even more proof he's just as terrible as Biden.
Every party has power struggles.
If you don't oppose the existence of the federal reserve then you are not libertarian. Capitalism doesn't have a command economy.
This is way more than a power struggle. It’s self harm. And capitalism is great. Not perfect but better than anything else. The problem is we haven’t seen real capitalism in America for at least 50 to 70 years.
@@nedhill1242 The passing of the National Banking Act in 1860's ended capitalism and corportaism has been snowballing since then. Things do seem to have gone downhill since the 70's.
'I have black friends. More than you, anyways.'
Good to know the libertarians are DEI enthusiasts
@@nealkelly9757seriously who would ever think that anyone on the right would vote for Chase Oliver LOL
Cringe master smith! He says its OK to hate on Jews so it must be. Indeed he is a comedian. What a cluster F!
He’s a comedian, don’t tell me you can’t take a joke.
@@MacTheSeraph I can. However, that felt kind of reaching and aggressive. I could be wrong.
Donald Trump Libertarian? Hmmm Nope, The Libertarian Party booing him means he will never support anything Libertarian Trump has no real policy convictions , he only cares about what he perceives is best for him
Selfishness. Isn't that the highest libertarian virtue? 😄
Seems like what he wants for himself is going to benefit me. I'm in.
He's been making the same criticisms of trade management for 30 years.
Drop the pop psychology and do some research.
Not worth my time. The LP is not serious; it is a grift. The current nominee and last nominee were unreconstructed leftists. Both supported lockdowns and the jab. The current nominee is all for Zerocare (ACA). At least Gary Johnson was small "l" libertarian, his VP nominee was a big government gun grabber.
Before the Mises Caucus, a majority of LP members clearly misunderstood that libertarian meant libertine. There was a palpable hostility for Christians and Christianity, even as many in LP gave lip service to tolerance for other faiths. There was never a word spoken in favor of federalism or localism, only some top-down, centralized concept of libertarian governance.
I had real hope the MC takeover would result in serious and competent candidates running for office under the LP banner. Clearly, that is not the case. Any viable candidate was quite rightly scared away from LP.
While I still hold many libertarian beliefs, I will have to wait for a new party to emerge to advance those principles.
In what way are they left? They're both Capitalists?
@@Justin_Beaver564 I'm assuming this guy is referring primarily to a few relevant culture war policies to call them left wing.
Have you seen the joke that the D’s and R’s have become? No one is having more fun than the Libertarians. This Convention was a blast! I do take liberty seriously, but I do not make my politics my religion.
Chase Oliver did not support lockdowns. He supports vaccination, because being anti-government does not mean being anti-science. Hostility to Christians is due to the long history of Christians in this country using the state to impose their beliefs on everyone else. Federalism and localism is not libertarianism; it is merely decentralized tyranny.
@@williambrennan104 I did not say that Chase supported lockdowns. As far a s messenger RNA, which is different technology than a traditional vaccine is still in the experimental phase. President Trump pushed it out pre-maturely under "Operation Warp Speed."
Democrats were against the vaxx until President Biden took office and then it was okay to "trust the science." Had Trump won re-election, it would have been Trumpers rolling up their sleeves and Democrats (and presumably Chase Oliver) #resisiting.
Really reason, its anti semitic to point out that Israel has too much influence over US politics??
Thomas Massie "everyone in Washington has an AIPAC guy"
America holds way more influence over Israel considering the OG Zionists (American Christians & secular Americans) thought that if you bestowed the Jews with American values, then they'd become just as great as their ancient Israelite ancestors, and AIPAC is far less influential that oil companies, beer sellers, public accountants, and Toyota.
mises caucus literally posting a jewish stereotype often used by white supremacists. There was no mention of israel in the post. Go look at that post again and tell me anyone is gonna think its an israeli critique and not a flagrantly racist image.
@@dan.w.2432 I have no idea what you are talking about? Are you talking about the Michigan affiliate that Dave Smith mentions. If so who cares, one dumb ass gets a hold of a twitter account and posts something idiotic, that happens in every political movement ever.
The fact that so many oppose Chase in the LP validates me leaving it.
The most shocking thing about the Libertarian Party convention was that it resulted in a libertarian being the Libertarian Party candidate.
Supporting Antifa that constantly beat random people and stole people's land during "Cop City" protests isn't Libertarian.
Ultra-progressive, left-wing publication, Reason, is nervous the LP is going to take votes from the Democrats, as they did in 2016.
Calling Reason left wing is hysterical. Also, no votes were taken, they were earned
Reason is pretty center in terms of Left-leaning and right-leaning American libertarianism.
I love that Chase is focused on building up the party as the nominee and he's focused on the actual party. He's committed to helping down ballot and he gets the goal of ballot access. I am not fully in line with him, but I will be voting for him if he makes the Virginia ballot
Just like the last time 4 years ago, I'll go give my vote to the libertarian party to show my support, but I won't expect anything.
Why not Trump?
@@BigEvan96 He wants to institute a top-down style of government. That's antithetical to the intended bottom-up structure. Not to mention he's fiscally irresponsible and refuses to take accountability for every misdeed he's conducted as president, like having Jared "Slumlord Millionaire" Kushner manage his administration's COVID response.
@@BigEvan96 Because he supports the libertarian party
I love how the Me-Sez come here to bitch about Chase Oliver. True colors. Like the world's worst fraternity getting upset that they couldn't force their way on everyone.
Dave's an actual Libertarian.
No
He squished on Trump. He's Libertarian on an as needed basis.
the dude is a nationalist reactionary who hedges on trump, an authoritarian big spender. How is this guy libertarian in the slightest
I consider myself a constitutional Libertarian regardless of the party itself in terms of wanting individual liberty and a focus on regaining our constitutional rights that have degraded over generations and heavily accelerated since 9/11 that are within the ideals of our nations history. Not blind anarchism and anything goes = freedom, or supporting Antifa and literal marxists and collectivists out of political clout. Any candidates that state that not being against racism is enough, but that you "have" to be actively anti racist when all that meant was being swept into the blind chaos of the Floyd riots. Or pro grooming kids into gender dysphoria because clearly children are fully developed and therefore it's "freedom" for the system to teach them lies in spite of biological reality and have parents push it like veganism on cats. Those that think that nations and ideals can exist without border security is absolute stupidity in terms of national stability and the cultural biome that allowed such liberty ideals to foster to begin with, that stemmed from some level of homogeny and self awareness. Wanting a functional, but smaller, balanced government doesn't mean zero government and wanting a secure border doesn't mean it's because racism or regulation = bad. I love nature but ya think the shopping cart theory of the honor system would sustain national parks, over harvesting of wildlife and that "free" borders will just sort itself out when gangs and other groups exploit it to the level that where it is now?
No man should be in women only sports. I am politically homeless with such a nominee who thinks such genuine nonsense.
I keep expecting libertarians to be more "live and let live;" I keep being disapointed... I think it may be about; 1) The Group Trap, thinking you can't be free until you convince everyone else to be free... and 2) Politics especially in the USA is a win/lose game... you have one winner usually about 12% everyone else is a loser.... In a free market no deal is made unless everyone walks away with a smile... We have an invisible hand... let's use it.
Classical liberalism is live and let live. Mises caucus is blood and soil brainrot nationalism, its far too reactionary to be chill.
I'm a partisan Libertarian and a huge Thomas Massie fan. Trump and Kennedy are not nearly libertarian enough, despite the few bones they throw in our direction. Chase Oliver is an awesome Libertarian candidate. I'm happy to vote for him in November, and will collect signatures to get him on the ballot in WA State. Free Minds and Free Markets! :)
Ideolological purity does not equate to victory in politics: you have to be willing to compromise and take small victories. The Libertarian party is not only full of such purists, but also divisions regarding what said purity even looks like. Frankly, what the Mesus caucus is doing via leveraging their power is the only way forward for this party.
The Mises Caucus reached out to Trump because they want the LP to become an extension of MAGA, which means they want absolute loyalty to Trump.
I don't think the Mises faction's plan is that bad. I thought of something similar except for the legislative branch. If the LP could grab enough seats in the House and Senate that neither Dems or the GOP could get majority status, then they could get whatever they wanted by being the deciding vote.
its pretty funny watching reason continually become more and more of a parody of itself
I voted LP in 2008, 2012, and 2016.
In 2020 I voted Trump and will again this year.
Hey REASON! How come you didn’t mention the COP as Chase running mate? How come you put carnival music behind Dave and rock music behind chase. Reason is fake news. Never thought I’d see the day.
I'm guessing it's because anyone who supports Trump is a clown, especially if they claim to be a libertarian (or a Republican, for that matter).
I think it depends on who is doing the story. They may also have been infiltrated by the same entity that infiltrates all major news outlets. Lawfare could also be an aspect.
Taking an edible at the libertarian convention seems on par with our party.
What party? There's no party, just a collection of diverse malcontents from both parties.
Not true. There are second generation Libertarians now. The LP has only been around since 1972. So sure, many members of the LP have come from the two old Parties. The Republican Party started off as a Third Party and was, in their beginning, made up of members from the other previous Parties.
Nominating Chase Oliver, as the libertarian party presidential candidate goes against everything the party represents. He’s a political activist! most people in their hearts have libertarian values, and if we get a candidate that fully represents that we might actually see a change in politics.
My god. A political activist as a politician? What's this world coming to? /s
I've yet to see anything particularly non-libertarian in Chase's views. Just some nitpicking, mostly from people trying to prop up Trump.
Trump alone didnt add the $8 trillion. That's the compound interest from the previous administrations, the blue congress and senate, and covid. Inaccurate reporting, Weiss.
Reason didn't mention that Oliver won in part because of shenanigans with questionably seated delegates, and Oliver made a deal with another candidate to drop out.
There were no shenanigans except the attempted unseating of duly elected delegates. Well, unless you count those buses in Saturday, but that wasn’t Oliver.
LP is a kook magnet. That being said the vast majority of libertarians see Trump and RFK as kooks.
If the LP was serious, it would work to change the voting method to make it easier to elect Libertarians. Until that happens, the LP will be nothing more than a NOTA party. As of today, 3 state LP's have decided not to back Chase Oliver.
Note to McArdle: when you proclaim that your strategy and intention is to make certain Biden doesn't win, you are not-so-subtly implying that you really just want Trump to win. If that's your aim, then your efforts aren't for the Oliver campaign and the many coattails elections he could have an impact on. This is a call for you to either resign your post or get your act together and start showing some integrity. #ChaseOliver2024
Ok Commie.
The Mises Caucus is nothing but the MAGA Caucus. All in for trump and hoping for some crumbs.
A common criticism of the MC is that they were upset about the LP being too aligned with Democrats, so they decided to move the party to be more in line with Republicans. Unfortunately, that criticism is becoming more and more true. Though instead of the generic Republican party, they are aligning more with authoritarian anti-libertarians like Trump.
@@notmousse, you must be mistaken. The Mises Caucus candidate was the self-proclaimed Communist.
It's called having varying preferences for different candidates.
You can like the libertarian candidate the most and still have a preference between the republican and Democrat candidates.
That's why it's so important to have ranked choice voting pass in more states. So voters can more directly express their preferences.
My views are most aligned with the LP. But of the last 2 presidents, I think we were far better off with Trump. There is no way to signify this when I can only vote for one candidate.
Volunteered for my local LP chapter. Been to a national convention, met Vermin Supreme there. I walked away from the LP cus it is insanity. I donate to the Mises Caucus still but I will not associate with the LP. Those morons could have completely broken the 8% threshold by nominating Trump.
Not a fan of Oliver, personally, but if you are triggered by a pride flag, you're a really lousy libertarian! 👨👨👧
So, it was just the shirt he grabbed from the top of the stack that morning. "hmmm let's see, oh the pride flag, super colorful!"
As a libertarian, I won't be voting for Oliver. There is no shame in anybody's game to close the border. It is not a violent act and they can still come in a port of entry when vetted.
Their new strategy caused me to change my party affiliation from LP to Republican.
That's okay, not everyone can maintain being principled.
The Republican National Corporation, rather than IIndependent? Check your reasoning.
You weren’t libertarian to begin with
I live in DC where there are almost as many registered Libertarians as Republicans so that doesn't do me any good.
Not voting for the LP nominee for the first time in my life.
So the new LP leadership didn’t make the party serious, they just made them embarrassing in a different way
Have you seen the joke that is the Republican and Democratic Party lately? Libertarians are having more fun. Don’t make your politics your religion.
Love when libertarians get mad at other libertarians for not wanting to bend the knee to leftists or republicans. Seen this play out both ways. If you want to be an alternative, don't suck up to ideologies that are against your own principles
The power stuggle continues - between feds, leftists, and clueless bluepilled people and those who think Ron Paul is good and don’t want to chemically castrate children. A learning experience for the Mises Caucus. I personally apologize for Chase winning the nomination and know he is a huge embarrassment to libertarianism and a poor representative of it and for the LP. I appreciate Angela McArdle so much though and hopefully this ticket is just a setback for the party.
Wow, someone has seriously lost the plot…
Do you know what libertarianism actually is?
RFK Jr. and Rectenwald don't have nearly as much in common as implied (11:25)
Say what you want about Trump and Kennedy, the LP picked fucking Chase Oliver.
Yep😂😂😂 it's a joke
What’s crazy is policy wise Trump is further left than Chase
Chase Oliver is a libertarian. The only "libertarians" who don't like him aren't actually libertarians, they're far-right extremists.
There should be _lots of_ different libertarian parties. Start, join, or encourage new ones.
@@Joshpower57 I'm sure Chase Oliver isn't perfect, but Trump and Kennedy aren't even trying to be Libertarian. The idea that the LP would have been better with one of them over Oliver is the real joke.
Why’d y’all change the title of this video?? It was named “The internal struggle plaguing the Libertarian party.” or something along those lines.
Trump has offered to put Libertarians in senior posts, allowing Libertarians to influence policies. Not voting Trump is peak idiocy for Libertarians. Keep your 1% this year !!
Trump is an authoritarian anti-libertarian who in that same speech called himself libertarian aligned. So even IF he isn't lying (hard sell) it means nothing.
Lol trump cares too much about his legacy @@shaun7142
@@shaun7142 Keep your 1% this year and have a Biden Regime with ZERO libertarian influence. Be the usual loser every year.
No matter who wins, we lose. Feel free to suck up to Trump if you want, but he has nothing to offer to libertarians.
@@shaun7142 Not voting for Trump only helps the truly authoritarian Democrats. But you are a one-issue voter, so you don't care.
16:48 The LP, both national and AZ , never endorsed Blake Masters. That was all Dave Smith.
Reason magazine is a trash rag compared to what it used to be
I like RFK. He can't win. If Ron Paul, with all the rabid support he had, cannot win, RFK has a near zero chance.
I'm a libertarian. I'm so disappointed in my party. Chase Oliver is a degenerate. I'm voting for Trump this year. My first choice was Vivek Ramswany but now that Chase is nominated I don't have a choice but vote for Trump. Biden is and has been a disaster and his cognitive decline has went from bad to worse.
I'm a homophobic right winger too!
Anybody who votes for a dementia patient for ANY public office has got to be nuts. But, mark my words, he will get millions of votes. Where is common sense?
Reason is bringing really good content right now.
I don't care that these LP voices have slight ideological differences. All of the LP ideas are based on reality. Reason, Chase Oliver, Dave Smith and Angela McCardle are all doing an awesome job.
Let's argue internally even more! (Actual) Diversity (of thought) is our strength! The level of ideological purity in the Other Two is only possible because of religious adherence to their worldviews and NOT based on reason.
“Free trade” sucks. Look at the Rust Belt.
Lol
Not a libertarian
Free trade free people free movement free land
Grow the Libertarian party by giving votes to the Republican party via Trump. That's a bold strategy, let's see how that pays off for them.
The takeover was horrible for the party. I left as soon as I found out about it. Or rather, the Libertarian party left me.
The Party belongs to who Shows Up. When good people leave, what's left is what it is.
If the Libertarian Party had actual leadership they would start at the local level in more friendly states and work their way up. Get some mayors and city councilmembers then move up to the county level. Then move up to state level positions and eventually compete for governors. Then work on getting candidates in the US house and after that the senate. Presidency is a waste of time until they start at the lower levels. Especially since they literally nominated an actual authoritarian for nomination this year.
Angela McArdle just implicitly endorsed the Republican Trump near the end here!
Don’t let here hold office for _any_ libertarian party again.