I just found your channel the other day. Been watching hours of your videos. You have provided an awesome library of knowledge on youtube. Thanks for your efforts here. Great instructions.
That has been my main goal for the channel, to convey to others what I have learned over several decades, so if you get any use from the videos that makes me happy.
I use ground throws everywhere so I can follow along with the wireless DCC throttle. However, there is one spot I can't reach, so I bought a used Tortoise at a train sale. I am ready to install it and this episode popped up on a recommended list. I am no longer so scared after watching your video. The hemostat solves the problem of how to hold it in place. I'll check your other videos for wiring it.
Thanks Larry, another great Video, over in the UK we can use Copydex, recommended by good old Charlie of Chadwick Model Railways, this adhesive is Water Soluble so if you ever have to remove the Lead you can without having to total it. Best Wishes, keep safe.
That’s a super great video and I just finished my layout and I’m going to be installing 13 of these little buggers in about a week thank you very much Larry
Hi Larry, I enjoy your videos very much... I am new to DCC and learning a lot here. If I wanted to use manual ground throws for turnouts, would a frog juicer be the appropriate solution to prevent shorts? Just ordered your wiring book, looking forward to that.
Check out video 261 and you could use Frog Juicers but I din’t recommend using a of of them as they depend on creating a transient short in order to operate.
Interesting video and thanks. I see that you are an expert and I have several turtles that I have not been able to install, I feel frustrated. I would like to know how the turtle's cables are connected, particularly 2,3,4,5,6, and 7 to the tracks. Since 1 and 8 are connected to power. If you have photos I would like to know if you can send them. Thank you very much since in Mexico they do not give support
Larry, I love your videos. I'm just dipping my toe into DCC, and your videos are really helping me. Two questions: Did you detail your turnouts with the parts Microengineering included? And, if I'm just going to use a manual throw, do I need to do anything with that metal piece under the frog?
Yes, I do use them and actually bought more switch stands to use on my Walthers turnouts. I just need time to add them. As for the spring with your Caboose throws I don’t know how robust their internal springs are and how long they would last with the extra resistance of the turnout spring.
Tortoise switch machines have 2 SPDT switches built in which can be used for handling frog polarity. They are shown as position 2, 3 & 4 or 5, 6 & 7 in the instructions. Connect the two,wires from the power bus to 2 & 3 and the frog feeder to 4. You may need to reverse 2 & 3 to get the polarity correct but each time you throw the Tortoise the SPDT switch will take care of the frog.
Great videos Larry. I am using Tortoise switch machines with DCC Specialties Hare II. I can only get my switches to grow in one direction. Do you have any video to help me with this? I searched but maybe I missed something.
First, the only decent solenoid types available here are the Peco ones, we stopped using them decades ago when slow motion stall motor machines became available. Companies stopped selling them because nobody wants them anymore over here. One big reason is the common name for them is snap switches. This is because when the capacitive discharge unit kicks in the solenoid snaps in the opposite direction throwing the points. Over time this snapping action will cause the points to fail, that doesn’t happen with slow motion motors like Tortoises and Cobalt machines. Also the slow motion is quieter than the snapping solenoids. Just watch a layout video on RUclips and you will hear the distinctive snapping sound when the points are thrown.
@@TheDCCGuy Absolutely agreed, Larry!! Although I personally use much faster point motors when building a layout, if you want something prototypical of a specific location, the Tortoise motors might be better. Having known Ongar Station for 9, nearly ten years, I think that the Tortoise would be a much better bet!!
Larry, Could you give us some pointers on installing a Tortoise when it's going to be used on a turnout 3' or so from the edge of the layout? I can't reach that far and hitting the throwbar from below isn't easy.
Roger, assuming you can crawl under the layout here is what I suggest. First place the turnout on the layout in the position you plan and mark the locations for the feeder hole and the throw rod. Using the template or just the Tortoise set on top of the layout, mark the desired locations of the 4 screws. Drill the hole for the throw rod and then the 4 screws. Next crawl under the layout and install the Tortoise. Finally working from above drop the turnout in place over the throw rod while feeding the feeder wire down through its hole. Finally connect the wires.
You are probably just as well off buying long bits made in 6 & 8 inch lengths. Bosch and Milwaukee both make them. As a plus they have a more slender shaft allowing one to get closer to the machine and hence drive the screw at a better 90 degree angle. I’ve used 2 sided carpet tape for the initial placement of the machines and have found no difficulty removing them if necessary. Of course screws are still required.
Hi, Why not use the Tortoise as a template from above the base bord? Just center the switch blades and the switch rod and position the Tortoise, mark and drill pilot holes through base board. Even if not all four holes are possibly to drill , at least min. two usally are doable. I think this is much easier since I'm not able to turn my base board upsidedown.😁 Got this idea from another You- Tuber. Thu' I can't remeber whom.
I once built an upper deck using 2” foam board. For the Tortoises there I cut rectangles of hardboard and installed the Tortoises on them using screws and nuts. I then glued the whole assembly to the underside of the foam board using Liquid Nails for Projects. The Tortoises can be removed if need be by removing the nuts.
Howzit Larry : It Looks Like The ME Turnouts Do Not Have An Off-Centre Tension Spring-Lock Like PECO Code # 83 Turnouts .... Is This The Case ? Even Then; I Note That You ALSO Prefer To Increase The Gauge-Thickness Of The Actuating Wire Over That As Originally Supplied By TORTOISE. After Decades; Surely Circuitron Must Know That The Supplied Wire Should Be Increased In Gauge-Thickness As It Tends To Be Ineffective and / or ALSO Supply An Alternate; Thicker-Gauge Wire With The Switch Machine ? I Know That There Remains A Debate Whether or Not To Remove The PECO Spring; But I Have Chosen Not To Do So; Thus Keeping That Positive * Click * For Assured Electrical Continuity As Supported By Wire-Jumpers Between The Stock and Closure Rails. Needless To Say; By Making This Choice; The Original; Thin-Gauge Wire Is Useless ! What Say Youse ? Thanks + Regards / John PS : I Was Privileged To Have Visited The ME Factory ( Fenton / MO ) During The 2010 National Narrow Gauge Convention. The Production Of Its HIGH Quality MR Track-Range Was Fascinating As It Was Impressive !
They do have a spring mechanism which I usually remove. However since the Blue Points are able to work with the Peco switches I decided to leave this one intact to see if the same is true for Tortoises and MEs. I replace the wire mainly because it isn’t long enough with my plywood, foam, and roadbed combination. The same goes for the diameter of the wire as the longer wire seems to need the heavier wire.
Depends on subroadbed thickness. If less than 1” I go with 1/4” but for thicker stuff I use 3/8”. Basically if the throwrod they include is too short to reach the points then I go with a slightly thicker one and the larger bit.
When you say a switch machine, we call them point motors in England!! I seem to understand your American terminology better than I thought I would!!
I just found your channel the other day. Been watching hours of your videos. You have provided an awesome library of knowledge on youtube. Thanks for your efforts here. Great instructions.
That has been my main goal for the channel, to convey to others what I have learned over several decades, so if you get any use from the videos that makes me happy.
I use ground throws everywhere so I can follow along with the wireless DCC throttle. However, there is one spot I can't reach, so I bought a used Tortoise at a train sale. I am ready to install it and this episode popped up on a recommended list. I am no longer so scared after watching your video. The hemostat solves the problem of how to hold it in place. I'll check your other videos for wiring it.
Thanks Larry, another great Video, over in the UK we can use Copydex, recommended by good old Charlie of Chadwick Model Railways, this adhesive is Water Soluble so if you ever have to remove the Lead you can without having to total it. Best Wishes, keep safe.
Thanks Larry, 🐾🚂 BearCreek RR, KY.
THANK YOU...for sharing. Very nice. Enjoyed.
That’s a super great video and I just finished my layout and I’m going to be installing 13 of these little buggers in about a week thank you very much Larry
Someone suggested drilling the mounting holes from on top of the layout which should make the job even easier.
Yeah, if the cork and track were nt already nailed down. You could nt get a good alignment doing that
Obrigado pelas orientações!!!
Hi Larry, I enjoy your videos very much... I am new to DCC and learning a lot here. If I wanted to use manual ground throws for turnouts, would a frog juicer be the appropriate solution to prevent shorts? Just ordered your wiring book, looking forward to that.
Check out video 261 and you could use Frog Juicers but I din’t recommend using a of of them as they depend on creating a transient short in order to operate.
Interesting video and thanks. I see that you are an expert and I have several turtles that I have not been able to install, I feel frustrated. I would like to know how the turtle's cables are connected, particularly 2,3,4,5,6, and 7 to the tracks. Since 1 and 8 are connected to power. If you have photos I would like to know if you can send them. Thank you very much since in Mexico they do not give support
Larry, I love your videos. I'm just dipping my toe into DCC, and your videos are really helping me. Two questions: Did you detail your turnouts with the parts Microengineering included? And, if I'm just going to use a manual throw, do I need to do anything with that metal piece under the frog?
Yes, I do use them and actually bought more switch stands to use on my Walthers turnouts. I just need time to add them. As for the spring with your Caboose throws I don’t know how robust their internal springs are and how long they would last with the extra resistance of the turnout spring.
@TheDCCGuy I tried adding the rail clamps, but they are just too small. Any tips?
I must admit I don’t remember trying to install those but will give it a look see tomorrow.
I use double sided 3M Tape to hold my switch machines in place. Works great. Bob
I have heard of folks doing that as well as hot glue, but what happens when you need tp swap one put? Maybe heavy duty Velcro would be a good option.
A hint, if I may: use Philips head screws. They stay centred and are much easier with electric/ cordless screwdrivers.
I usually do too butI mistakenly grabbed a bag at Lowes and when I got ready to shoot this found out they were slotted.
Better still, use Robertson.
Great video. Now I have 1 7/8 thick table.
(N-Scale) will these work O.K. ?
I once managed to install them under 2” thick foam but had to use a longer throw wire. Buy music wire at your local hobby shop.
Thanks for this video Larry, I have 30+ of them I need to install so this was a good video!
In regards to the feeder wire you soldered to the frog, where did the wire get connected to?
Tortoise switch machines have 2 SPDT switches built in which can be used for handling frog polarity. They are shown as position 2, 3 & 4 or 5, 6 & 7 in the instructions. Connect the two,wires from the power bus to 2 & 3 and the frog feeder to 4. You may need to reverse 2 & 3 to get the polarity correct but each time you throw the Tortoise the SPDT switch will take care of the frog.
Thank you, Larry!
Great videos Larry. I am using Tortoise switch machines with DCC Specialties Hare II. I can only get my switches to grow in one direction. Do you have any video to help me with this? I searched but maybe I missed something.
How are you trying to control them, pushbuttons, toggles, throttle commands?
@@TheDCCGuy DPDT Mini Toggle Switch 6-Pin 2 Position ON/ON Miniature Toggle Switch 6A 125VAC Toggle Switch
@@TheDCCGuy DPDT Mini Toggle Switch 6-Pin 2 Position ON/ON Miniature Toggle Switch 6A 125VAC Toggle Switch
Good afternoon Larry!! Why are you using a Tortoise Point Motor when an ordinary solenoid unit would do the job that much faster?
First, the only decent solenoid types available here are the Peco ones, we stopped using them decades ago when slow motion stall motor machines became available. Companies stopped selling them because nobody wants them anymore over here. One big reason is the common name for them is snap switches. This is because when the capacitive discharge unit kicks in the solenoid snaps in the opposite direction throwing the points. Over time this snapping action will cause the points to fail, that doesn’t happen with slow motion motors like Tortoises and Cobalt machines. Also the slow motion is quieter than the snapping solenoids. Just watch a layout video on RUclips and you will hear the distinctive snapping sound when the points are thrown.
@@TheDCCGuy Absolutely agreed, Larry!! Although I personally use much faster point motors when building a layout, if you want something prototypical of a specific location, the Tortoise motors might be better. Having known Ongar Station for 9, nearly ten years, I think that the Tortoise would be a much better bet!!
Larry,
Could you give us some pointers on installing a Tortoise when it's going to be used on a turnout 3' or so from the edge of the layout? I can't reach that far and hitting the throwbar from below isn't easy.
Roger, assuming you can crawl under the layout here is what I suggest. First place the turnout on the layout in the position you plan and mark the locations for the feeder hole and the throw rod. Using the template or just the Tortoise set on top of the layout, mark the desired locations of the 4 screws. Drill the hole for the throw rod and then the 4 screws. Next crawl under the layout and install the Tortoise. Finally working from above drop the turnout in place over the throw rod while feeding the feeder wire down through its hole. Finally connect the wires.
HI DCC Guy Where did you get the Drill Extension's for that drill? Ray,
I have a couple of them and they both came with drill sets I purchased. However if you check Amazon I bet someone sells them.
You are probably just as well off buying long bits made in 6 & 8 inch lengths. Bosch and Milwaukee both make them. As a plus they have a more slender shaft allowing one to get closer to the machine and hence drive the screw at a better 90 degree angle.
I’ve used 2 sided carpet tape for the initial placement of the machines and have found no difficulty removing them if necessary. Of course screws are still required.
Hi,
Why not use the Tortoise as a template from above the base bord? Just center the switch blades and the switch rod and position the Tortoise, mark and drill pilot holes through base board. Even if not all four holes are possibly to drill , at least min. two usally are doable. I think this is much easier since I'm not able to turn my base board upsidedown.😁
Got this idea from another You- Tuber. Thu' I can't remeber whom.
I’ll give that a try next time. I guess I’ve always done it this way because that’s what the instructions say but this sounds easier.
Hello Larry, how would you recommend securing the Tortoise machine to foam board?
I once built an upper deck using 2” foam board. For the Tortoises there I cut rectangles of hardboard and installed the Tortoises on them using screws and nuts. I then glued the whole assembly to the underside of the foam board using Liquid Nails for Projects. The Tortoises can be removed if need be by removing the nuts.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry!
Robertson screw heads are so much easier to work with then the slot or philips.
Howzit Larry : It Looks Like The ME Turnouts Do Not Have An Off-Centre Tension Spring-Lock Like PECO Code # 83 Turnouts .... Is This The Case ? Even Then; I Note That You ALSO Prefer To Increase The Gauge-Thickness Of The Actuating Wire Over That As Originally Supplied By TORTOISE. After Decades; Surely Circuitron Must Know That The Supplied Wire Should Be Increased In Gauge-Thickness As It Tends To Be Ineffective and / or ALSO Supply An Alternate; Thicker-Gauge Wire With The Switch Machine ? I Know That There Remains A Debate Whether or Not To Remove The PECO Spring; But I Have Chosen Not To Do So; Thus Keeping That Positive * Click * For Assured Electrical Continuity As Supported By Wire-Jumpers Between The Stock and Closure Rails. Needless To Say; By Making This Choice; The Original; Thin-Gauge Wire Is Useless ! What Say Youse ? Thanks + Regards / John PS : I Was Privileged To Have Visited The ME Factory ( Fenton / MO ) During The 2010 National Narrow Gauge Convention. The Production Of Its HIGH Quality MR Track-Range Was Fascinating As It Was Impressive !
They do have a spring mechanism which I usually remove. However since the Blue Points are able to work with the Peco switches I decided to leave this one intact to see if the same is true for Tortoises and MEs. I replace the wire mainly because it isn’t long enough with my plywood, foam, and roadbed combination. The same goes for the diameter of the wire as the longer wire seems to need the heavier wire.
Yes : The BLUE Mechanical / Manual Turnout Actuators DO Have A Thicker-Gauge Wire and Work Reliably With PECO Spring-Loaded Turnouts ....
what size drill bit do you use for the throw rod?
Depends on subroadbed thickness. If less than 1” I go with 1/4” but for thicker stuff I use 3/8”. Basically if the throwrod they include is too short to reach the points then I go with a slightly thicker one and the larger bit.
Thanks Larry