Straight Men Don't Read Novels, a Response
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Fun, more book drama!
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As some people have already pointed out, theres a big group of men reading litrpg and progression fantasy. The problem is tradpub cant track those stats since they are all indie published books.
The difficulty in tracking is certainly an issue. Even if they could properly track them, they would still use that information to skew things to their favor.
What do those terms mean? Yes, I know I can Google but it will save other people from having to do so
Women be like: "Gee, I wonder why straight men aren't reading novels that mostly and blatantly cater to women's and queer people's interests? I don't have the foggiest idea!"
But there's tons of novels geared towards men?
@@AstarTiamat Which they read, thereby nullifying the article
@@danielbroome5690statistically no men really don't read especially the younger generations. I wouldn't even wanna now how the statistic is going to look with the newest generations
Maybe books like Conan The barbarian should be brought back. The few I've read was too "muh feelings" and too much text for the stuff than should be.
@@davidfrederiksen3185most of the younger generation is reading, just not full novels. Typically going to manga/manwha from my observations. Though when I see young men read novels, it’s typically non-fiction or older fantasy
PREACH ALEX! Men don't want to read boring crap unless it makes them money. If you want Men to read, write interesting stories. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. 💖YAYYYYYYYY
I'm glad you liked it.
If the article just said “reading is gay” I would have agreed
My grandfather worked 40 hours in a factory, then went home & worked on a farm. Then he went to other peoples' homes & farms to do other work. And he still read, took care of his kids, & was an elder at church. There's always time to read, even if you have multiple jobs. Its just a matter of finding time. (I suggest 5 to 10 minutes before bed.)
And there's value in reading! You learn from books; they keep the mind active. Read! Read fiction, fact; read the dictionary if there's nothing else! (A vocabulary is a good thing to have.)
Peace to you; Jesus love you. Hope you have a better day, even if it was already good.
I find funny how there is this discourse around literature not being a masculine pursuit, as in fiction/fantasy literature. Which as someone who writes fantasy, I find jarring, because if anything, the ones ruining the genres in fiction are typically the ones who have infected it with smut and erotica on tiktok/social media in general. I have been trying to get traditionally published for years, and whilst I am not the best author by any means, I see stuff which I can say with confidence is poorly written compared to what I have written, getting published in recent years. Lightlark by Alex Aster, Chloe Gongs books, more recently Powerless by Lauren Roberts, all of which were fantasy btw, genre fiction. I dont read what is popping out today save for what comes from a seldom few authors such as Martin or Sanderson, because the books coming out today have been just mediocre at best, and solely made to hit a check mark list of 'tropes'. Its no longer about writing a story, because so many of these stories are just the same story repackaged(tournament in an evil kingdom with a love triangle of some sort) rather than a genuinely original story or world. Its extremely frustrating when so many of the novels ive been reading and rate highly are from authors from the 90s and back, idk if its social media, or publishing as a whole going to shit, but I am thoroughly unimpressed by so many of the debut authors all of which are younger than me mind you, getting 6 figure deals at age 18 when they are utterly incompetent at writing.
As a guy who primarily consumes Japanese media, there's a reason shounen (literally boy) is the most popular demographic and battle shounen is by far the most popular genre with Seinen (adult men) being the 2nd most popular. And of course, Light Novels which are written largely by and for straight men (primarily otakus, but still). Hell, even a lot of the most popular shoujo (girl) have stuff that appeal to men, namely a good amount of action. Then there's josei (adult women), which absolutely nobody talks about.
I've been reading a lot of old pulp novels from the first half of the twentieth century lately and it's pretty clear why Japanese light novels are so popular now. There used to be a large volume of adventure stories for young men written in English until the genre declined in this part of the world for some reason while it kept going strong in Japan.
I must've read and reread Harry Potter half a dozen times when I was younger. There were a lot of other books I picked up and read during that time period. I was an enthusiastic reader for a long time.
Haven't read any non-fiction in about a decade. Maybe longer. Whenever I hear about a book from a friend, it's something published decades ago, or longer. Perhaps I should start looking at the indie scene though; it's easier to self publish now than it has ever been in history. It doesn't matter if the major publishers don't care anymore; people who want to write will.
Isnt like close to 90% of modern fiction just barely disguised smut novels aimed at women? As a dude I just struggle with finding fiction I actually want to read.
Personally, the only contemporary fiction I engage with is the 40k books which I get in audiobook form while at work.
As far as actually reading, it's whatever pulpy fantasy/science fiction book stands out to me in the local thrift book store
Yeah one time i bought a book and thought it sounded cool. the synopsis was like "so yeah supernatural stuff is real and they meet at this 'shadow market'." within like the first chapter there was crossdressing and i was out XD. never buy books from walmart was my lesson.
Nooo not at all there are great modern authors depending on your preferences. If you like sci Fi like 40 where it's more sci-fantasy then you are spoiled for choices. But yes woman do make up a extremely large majority of readers especially in younger audiences so they get catered too more
@@Annatar3019but if you want some good modern sci Fi I would recommend either the star wars thrawn trilogies. Or the bobiverse those books are very good in my opinion
Same issue we face as Africans- I just read books from other countries, or much older books
I don’t believe we'd have a massive video-game industry if men didn't value their leisure time. Men tend to be more visual so character models are naturally more appealing than words. There is the challenge and accomplishment aspect as well. Multiplayer games can even make it a social experience. How are books supposed to compete?
Even if someone were to write and market an amazing novel for men how many men would realistically put down their video-game to read a book?
Yes, male readers still exist and deserve good books but with so much visual competition I just don’t see it making a comeback. But I would love to hear other people's opinions.
Well I don't disagree with your main point, games have a lot of aspects too them that books don't, and they might be more appealing. The thing is they are different mediums with different strengths and weaknesses.
I think one of the big mistakes you make here is thinking that books aren't visual. A. art in books is often very good. B most fantasy and sci Fi books rely on your imagination, and it seems more and more people are loosing that ability.
Again I don't think you are wrong but a good portion of younger boys have never read a book they have enjoyed but still say books are boring compared to other stuff when it is not really the case. And while doing that they loos out on a lot of important information that can be found in books
When I grew up it was mostly the sane guys I hung out with and played video games that read. However, we were all reading science fiction and fantasy novels or spy novels. I note fewer of these books are being marketed to men than before.
I mean, I read novels, and I'm pretty straight.
not very convincing..
@@thereportoftheweek787 statements of fact usually aren't for the anxiously hopeful.
Unpossible
@@oliversynowiec3350 is that like "impossible"?
Every turn of the page inches me closer to downloading grindr 😢
I say this a lot...but that writer doesn't understand men at all.
Also,, in the US at least, the public school system teaches boys starting around 12 that books are for girls by force feeding them girl oriented books to read. Same school system then surprise Pikachus when they stop reading.
It's not that they don't want boys to stop reading, it's that they want to force men to like girls books.
The same way the Romans would starve lions to force them to eat humans.
@@talexratcliffe they can take a long walk off a short pier.
What are all these girl -oriented books being assigned in elementary and middle schools? What makes a book "girl oriented" or "a girl book"?
Genuinely curious about these definitions.
The conventional wisdom (assumptions, you could say) in literature has been for a while that boys won't engage/resist engaging with a story that has a female lead, while girls will relate to male lead stories with much less to no qualms.
(Typing this as I listen to the vid and the line "Fourth Wing for all" made me instantly ill.😂 The "girl YA" of my day had women taking out demons and starting mercenary companies after literally telling the prince she just had a fling with that she had fun but will absolutely not marry him, she's got shit to do. We need more of that energy.)
Excellent shout out to James Herriot, btw.)
@jojobookish9529 whethering heights, pride and prejudice, grapes of wrath. Classic literature in general does not appeal to boys. (On average obviously). I didn't read a book I liked in school until Dracula, and basically hated everything else.
It makes reading feel like a chore. Fortunately I already liked reading and read outside of class.
@@brokenentertainment327 Which is rather funny, because so much of "classic" literature is written by men, about mostly men and male experiences/concerns, and was definitely not crafted to appeal to a female reader, so much so that I have been told by grown men that I couldn't possibly have *truly comprehended* some of them because I'm a woman. I don't think most of them could properly be called "girl books". But what makes a book a "girl book" or "girl oriented book" anyway? What would make a book a "boy book" or "boy oriented book"?
Because the main difference I see in your examples is all those classics are real-world stories getting in the weeds about real world things, while Dracula is gothic horror. I was bored to tears by most of the classics unless they had some hint of weirdness or fantasy to them (to this day, I loathe The Great Gatsby). I know my brother's main struggle with reading in school was that the stories were boring compared to what I was reading to him at home, which was The Hobbit and Wrinkle in Time and my dad's classic sci-fi collection. I think it's starting to change, but the opinion that fantasy/sci-fi has no literary merit and is unfit for school study was really entrenched for a long time.
I love to read highly technical books that are outside of my field. This is just as "non-productive" as if I were to read fictional novels. How does it help me to know the relations between water and plants when I try to figure out a control system for a welding mechanism? Or how about the first seven ecumenical councils? Does it give me insight into the mechanics of microcontrollers?
I just love to have a deeper knowledge in various different fields. And reading an experts take on it is the best way to do that.
I thought to myself, "wait I read fiction all the time!" to realize that all my for fun reading comes from Japan and Korea.
*Glances at several bookshelves of books* I wondered what those were for...
Obviously for crushing bugs.
25:56 - 26:00 my response would be “yes and why haven’t the publishers made stuff like that anymore?” Also sword and sorcery books (conan, elric, fafhrd and the grey mouser ect) back in the day had much shorter page counts than anything the forth wing is at.
Brevity is the soul of wit. One day I'll really have to read Conan. Hopefully before my 50-60 hour work weeks burn me out.
Well damn, just put my video to shame. This is definitely a Superior analysis than mine
Edit: Thanks for the shout out at the end
Nah dude, we both said things that needed to be said. Your video on this was spot on.
Like I said, I was joining the dog pile, and we need to call out these people who don't know what they're talking about.
@@talexratcliffe still highly enjoyed yours. Very well donw
@@AuthorJohnADouglas I guess I'll watch yours first.
@@benrex7775 LMAO
Superior to
Women have been gooning to these types of books for a long time now.
Wow, I am quite literally the antithesis of this article's view of men. 99% of my book purchases have been for fiction, with the remaining 1% being mainly textbooks. Looking back on the last ten years (age 21-31), the most time I've spent reading has been at some of the busiest points in my life. Nowadays I have too much leisure time thanks to working at home and too many other entertainment options to spend it on. And most reading I do get to do now isn't traditional novels.
It doesn't surprise me. I know I've gotten caught in the comfort spiral of reading things from the past I enjoyed. There's also no point in being exclusive to one type of media. Enjoy what you want.
The idea that men don't read fiction is just wrong. The fiction men read just isn't tradpub, it's almost all online, because that's the only place where fiction aimed at men can take root.
I don't? News to me.
Video games are novels where you create your own destiny.
I read. im a str8 white male. I love Dune, foundations, lord of the rings, and many others.
To be fair you did only mention what might be considered very old books
As a straight man i recommend: The Lord of the Rings, the odyssey, the illiad, and the divine comedy
I also read the bible as a novel its a great series of stories regardless of the religious implications especially the old testament
You will have a hard time getting younger audiences to read those books. Most of them are relatively hard books to read especially if you read older versions
@@davidfrederiksen3185 I read those between 19-26 along with others
@@Wolf-bz6kq I'm only 21 and I find all of them interesting. But I like this stuff the majority of guys actually don't read
@@davidfrederiksen3185 I think the majority of people in general don't read books any more regardless of genre
@@Wolf-bz6kq well it is especially bad for boys especially young ones
Hi, just wondering what game your playing while you talk, looks fun. Thanks for the talks, great stuff to listen to while i draw and paint. It's great hearing from a straight dude who likes reading novels; helps me to find stuff i might be interested in reading. I don't mind having some romantic elements put in the story. I am currently reading a novel about two piolets that spans the time between the start of flight and goes through the 40s. There is a love triangle between the two fly boys and a wife to one of them. It adds to the drama of an ever changing landscape as aircraft piloting turns from being a wild west to a commercialized profession instead of taking center stage. Thanks again for the great talks take care!
I'm glad you're enjoying your current read.
The game in the background is Hero Hour. It's a fun, but occasionally unfair game. Here's the link store.steampowered.com/app/1656780/Heros_Hour/
@@talexratcliffe wow thanks
So I guess my bookselves mean I have to question my sexuality now.
I mean you don't have to... unless you find those men on the cover a little too appealing.
I wonder how that 55% statistic would change if you removed cooking and self help books.
I don't know. I have a lot of cook books.
Ridiculous article, I’m a straight man and I love reading fiction. Great take down. 👍
P.S. If I may I’d like to recommend Frozen Wrath by LS Goozdich. It’s about a former member of a biker gang who has to take on the organization that has grown so much it has its tentacles throughout the town.
That sound interesting. I'll put it on the monstrous list that haunts my book shelf and nightmares.
My TBR pile will need its own house soon.
@@talexratcliffe Hehe. Nice 👍🏻 Your welcome.
I read a lot of books and I am a straight man. I just don't read stuff that is clearly not written with my interests in mind.
I used to be a big fan of the 40k novels from the Black Library. Gaunt's Ghosts, the Eisenhorn trilogy, Ciaphas Cain. But now I have no interest in any novels that are not old school series or by new authors. Many have female protagonist that scream Mary Sue and just seem badly written in general. I don't read much either, mostly because I have a dozen or so hobbies and my chronic addiction to RUclips as well as looking after my dad. So, yeah.
The thing is most women want someone who physically and financially resembles Andrew Take but with a better personality who isn't abusive..
Plus generalizing all pro men people as being bad is just dishonest it's like saying all feminists are bad
The feminist one isn’t so wrong
@18:00 Is Stoicism bad? Doesn't it jyst mean you have control over your emotions, so you don't react in anger easily? Or so you don't loose it each time something sad happens? I have a serious problem with that line from the article.
Stoicism is a good thing. Being in control of your emotions and reactions are important to survival.
Funny because I want to marry and have babies with a woman and I've read over 50 novels and am currently writing one 😂
@22:45 So, I should learn COBOL? ;)
Yes, you should.
Filled up isn't slang, it's normal English as spoken in England, do colonials not use it?
I can't say I was familiar before the article.
I miss having the time and lack of distractions that made reading an integral part of my early life.
Did these figures that into account audio books. Most of my reading is audio, either in the car or just in my living rooms
I don't think it did.
Audio books are great.
They just invest their time in other Fictions and really immerse and invest themselves in them.
Hide and Read 🤙
It'd be considered speedy if I read one book over about ten years.
Simple.
I buy them to read them eventually.
who still reads novels?
Reading is definitely the least damaged medium for entertainment as liberals don't read anything that doesn't directly stroke their liberal sensibilities.
I've read some pretty tainted books to be honest.
Books are in a weird place right now.
At least Fourth Wing gave us cool villains to debate in vs battle scenarios. Who's your favorite fictional character that can tussle with a venin and win?
Saitama would have a field day with them, especially if their immortality holds up to his punches (which it probably wouldn’t, given how Saitama is, but it’s fun to think about). He’d just rag doll them while having the time of his life fighting someone who won’t die in one hit.
Don't even know if it's relevant, but I personally have only read 1 romance novel ever in my life. Never doing that again! And the one I read was written in the 80s and, I am assuming, was a very tame one. I imagine the stuff being published now is way, way worse. Women's sмuт is both absurd and boring at the same time. The only amusing thing - after reading it, have women try to convince you this is an ideal representation of romantic relations between men and women, not absurd and boring, and definitely, totally not sмuт.
Also, when it comes to gaming - there is often storytelling in gaming and some of it is very good and extensive, and elaborate. Gaming at least partially serves as substitute to reading books. Like an interactive audio book. Achieve objective X to hear the next chapter of the story!!! There are even so called "point and click" games that are literally mostly about the story and not so much about the game's mechanics.
Playing games is not a substitute for reading, parcially or remotely speaking. They don't even use the same parts of the brain.
@@exaltedhordes6385 The stories to some games are intense! I've only dipped my toes into gaming with BG3, but I've watched/overheard a good amount of several playthroughs of Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Genuinely good stories with stakes and characters you get attached to. Experiencing story is what matters; format is secondary.
You only have to read 3-4 romance Books than you Read all cuz its the Same over and over and over again
@@leopercara3477 Yeah, sure... The literally hours of storytelling and dozens of pages of ingame explanations, that some games have, THAT ONE READS, are definitely not reading. Not even remotely!
@@exaltedhordes6385 You need to account the quality of the writing aswell. There aren't that many well written games. And also reading a little and then playing, reading and playing, etc, it's not the same as being quiet and still and concentrating in a book for two or three hours. At all.
hmmm as a straight white male i read less fiction than i used to and Awards to audiobooks to listen to Something during work. And if i amoff work I often dont have the Motivation to think more so no Reading After work.
Trust me I get it.
What game is this
Hero Hour
store.steampowered.com/app/1656780/Heros_Hour/
This is fantastic
Thank you kindly
So will reading novels turn me gay?
You would have to ask the author.
I haven't seen it happen yet.
BANG BANG
I thought it was common knowledge that men are more likely to prefer non- fiction due them being more likely to be left brain dominant versus fiction being right brain based? another guy posted a video yesterday ranting about all the young adult and fantasy novels being boring romance nowadays. then he tried to get people to buy a bunch of other boring fantasy novels that were self published. he completely ignored all the amazing literary novels, horror, mystery and non fiction books that men probably actually like to read. there`s also a lot of excellent indigenous and immigrant fiction in the young adult section. I personally prefer reading from the canadian section and imports from new zealand and australia. I dont know if men like the literary stuff or not though.
This is not really true at least not In the statistics today. Men used to really love history but now it has actually become more of a woman's genre at least in my country. This is most likely because so few men read compared to woman
I don't think mend don't read because grind culture exists. More like it's a form of entertainment that is already woman focused, and unlike other forms of entertainment, it's less apparent what you will get from a book.
In the meantime, I'll keep shilling for Mark Lawrence and his The Book of the Ancestor trilogy.
I didn't know he'd written a book. Is this the Martin Lawrence actor?
@@talexratcliffe ... I'm going to blame the new Bad Boys movie for scrambling my brain
@@KoylTrane Holy shit, yes. Book of the Ancestor is incredible!