Learning from Meshuggah as a Jazz Musician - Lesson
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- This week, we're tackling Meshuggah! Been a huge fan of the band for a long time, and recently transcribed the solo from "Born in Dissonance"! Plenty of great diminished vocabulary in here and many melodic devices that you can use to break out of patterns and ruts in your playing!
Full disclaimer: this solo was already hitting the limits of my sustained technical facility, so had to cap the tempo at 90%. Hope you enjoy and find this lesson useful!
We're now up on Patreon! You can check out the link here (and also the transcription of the solo for those in the basic tier) - / juandhas
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#meshuggah #fredrikthordendal #improvisation 
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Thanks so much for checking out this week's lesson on Meshuggah! Hope you enjoyed the video, and please do give it a like if you found it useful. Learned a ton from this solo, and will also be talking about technique, as well as a general perspective on how I think of it next week!
For those curious, I've uploaded my transcription of this to Patreon. Feel free to check it out if interested (link is in the description)!
"There's almost a random nature to it, but it isn't random." Fredrik's guitar solos defined perfectly.
100%! It's wild!
Alien logos spoken in tongues.
Fredrik's solos are like a glitching sinister algorithm, they're so unique and cool. Very creative in their own way. I especially love how there are hardly any effects on any of the guitar except for when the solo kicks in. Adds a lot of cool contrast.
100% agreed! It's just so distinctly Fredrik
I like to think of Fredriks solos in Meshuggah as a silk ribbon in a barbed wire fence.
@@JuanDhas this is distinctly allan holdsworth and totally cliche.
Two words that struck me as I first listened to 'Contradictions Collapse' way back in the early '90s, and that juxtaposition between the ethereal, Holdsworth-esque legato solos, and crushing rhythms: Alien Beauty.
100%!
when meshuggah write songs, they think of how industrial machinery would make music if it was sentient.
Pretty apt description, honestly!
I think we have come full circle. Holdsworth clearly learned from some jazz horn players, Fredrik learned from Holdsworth now a jazz guy is learning from Fredrik lol.
Pretty much hahaha! I did put in my fair share of transcribing from horn players and Allan though (along with several pianists). No substitute for going to the source. Thanks for checking out the video and hope you enjoyed it!
Nah the FULL full circle is the guy on RUclips who plays Fredrik's solos on trumpet. 😂 They sound amazing!
Holdsworth wanted to play sax, but guitar was cheaper. That's what he did. Played breathy saxophone on guitar strings.
I appreciate this video, as a Meshuggah fan. I believe his solos are so fascinating.
Thanks, Shonna! Couldn't agree more. Fredrik's solos are just incredible and amazingly deep
I love Meshuggah's solos (and the songs) because in some way they are similar to Holdsworth solos, in fact he's a great influence of thordendhal. It's true that they are not too much into the theory but the sound and the choice of the patterns remember Allan in a good way and this is very distinctive in metal (as the rhythm choice). I read that they listened a lot of fusion when they're younger (maybe more Haake and Thordendhal, but the first bassist too, Gustav Hielm play great many genres). Good video!!
Thank you! Yeah, I remember reading an old Thordendal interview where he said that he only listened to Allan for a long time. Honestly, there's so much to break down in Meshuggah's music from multiple angles. Thanks for checking out the video!
dude, their current bassist is a total fusion animal. it's basically his background
I saw in an article somewhere that it’s the bass player that is more versed in music theory compared to the other members, so I got the impression that Frederik’s playing might not be using theory as much. I’m not sure what it all means but it adds another degree of mystery to their music.
Right, I remember reading something similar as well. Interesting to see how he's assimilated influences from a completely aural perspective!
You're correct! Dick Lövgren is massive in the jazz scene I believe, I know he's studied it for ages. The rest of them are more self-taught I think.
@@V3xxe On the metalkult video from him with Morten he says, that he improvises until it sounds cool, in the studio and on the album as well...
@@TriInfinity hi improvisations for everyshow is unique! Even better than the records, he know what he's doing that's why he can reproduce it over and over.
@@OrganicaShadows I just tried to transcribe a solo were I improvised 9 takes and tried to pull the best bits from each one. Took me hours, now I still need to learn it. You are right you have to be an absolute pro to improvise with random notes and still make it sound good..
I'm giving you a like just from how well you played that solo at the beginning man, great video as well though
Thanks, Patrick! Much appreciated!
Beautifully done Juan Diego! Meshuggah is totally new to me. I love that solo. The way you break down the solo is very interesting, and then explaining how lesssons could be learnt from it and used, is impressive! Bravo! Another good RUclips lesson!
Thanks, Dad!
Pretty bad ass to hybrid pick a solo that most likely is played using strict tapping.
Thank you!
What you said at 2:12 about how you decided to tackle the solo without tapping it to better use in your vocabulary is just so on point.
Thank you!
Great stuff man. really deep diving into this abyss
Thanks, Lior! Was a really fun one to do!
yoo hey bro! cool seeing you here man, love your channel
Awesome breakdown of the solo
Much appreciated, Abhilash! Hope you got some new stuff to try out from this
Definitely a twist... Hehe. I’m not familiar with the music - but, as you point out, there are hidden gems. I find that true in about all genres😄. Nice dive into it, Juan👍.
Thank you, Barry!
Hey dude, very cool video. This is quite high level stuff. I'm pretty sure you lose 99% of viewers around 6min mark, but those who stick to the end get the best music lesson of their lives. Very good job. Great solo on "Stella" too. And yes, I am a jazz musician, and a meshuggah fan....anyway, thank you,really enjoyed this one.
Thanks so much for the lovely words!
Great stuff! Saves me the trouble of having to transcribe the solo myself😀
Haha! Most welcome. Might have to figure out some different fingerings though!
fantastic playing at the start, never heard anyone but frederik play that solo so well
Very kind of you, Jack! Honestly this one really pushed my technical limits, but was a lot of fun and a welcome challenge. Hope you enjoyed the video, and do feel free to check out some of the other stuff on the channel!
@@JuanDhas I think the fact that you were able to play it without tapping made it so much more digestible for me so, thank you! Will definitely be checking out some of your other videos👍
Really good info here! thanks for making this video, could there be more meshuggah analysis in the future?
Thanks so much!
Wonderful lesson; subscribing now!
Thanks, Roy! Hope you enjoy some of the other stuff on here
You the man! ✊🏽
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the vid. Hope you enjoy some of the other stuff on the channel!
Dope video man. I really hear allan holdsworth in fredriks playing, their tone seems similar to me, almost a metallic sheen of a guitar tone. Sharp and bright. But not overwhelmingly loud. And fredriks playing style seems similar to holdsworth as well. They almost sound like saxophonists, i think its well documented that both allan and fredrik admire the saxophone in terms of its capabilities as an instrument. Either way, great vid and great playing. Much better than me. Need to get back to learning. Cheers
Thank you! I think there's an old interview floating about where Fredrik tells about his Holdsworth influence. Either way, both are monster musicians!
Did not see this coming lol. Nice one
Hahaha, it's caught a few people by surprise! Figured it'd be a great learning opportunity for people to dive into
Wonderful discussion, even for someone without a ton of theory knowledge i.e., me. Also a beautiful carvin you are jamming. Definitely subbing
Thanks for listening, glad to hear that you could get some info from this!
Perfect 🙏😎👍
Thank you!
Wow, great work Juan! I'm gonna check out Meshugga for the first time now
Thanks, Steve! Try listen a little deeper and past whatever your first impressions might be of the aesthetic. It really is some incredibly deep music!
Check out Fredriks song ‘Missing Time’
@@EelcovanZanten Great one!
I understand where Fredrik is coming from within the composition....Dissonant with note selection...But bringing in familiarity w/recurring patterns/themes..
Yeah! Thanks for checking out the vid!
Sick 🙏
Thanks!
This channel will get big af
Really kind of you to say. Thank you 🙏🏻
That’s badass! Sound kinda like a how a tres Cubano is played, you might wanna check out Gran Hechicero reminds me of him kinda
I absolutely will! Thanks for the rec, and for checking out the video!
Wish you would do this with Rings of Saturn
Thanks for watching! Haven't felt like doing this style of content for a while, but maybe may come back to it some day!
Sweden for the win 🇸🇪👍
You Swedes make incredible music!
@@JuanDhas that band is from Umeå. Lots of bands from there. Great video. Very interesting. When I hear you play the solo by itself, without the "metal" context it makes me think of Ben Monder or certain contemporary composers. Messiaen, perhaps?
@@Mikkokosmos Exactly, it has that Messiaen sound to it, especially if you tweak the context it's played in. I believe diminished is also considered Mode 2 in Messiaen's perspective, so that makes complete sense. Knowing Fredrik's Holdsworth influence, it all links back as well!
fantastic job dude. i had to stop and listen several times @8:05 - pretty sure this shape/sound (or something VERY close to it) is the basis for the intro of Holdsworth's "Three Sheets to the Wind".
Thank you! The Holdsworth thread is always interesting to see in guitarists that have been influenced by him.
meshuggah love
Absolutely!
Yessir!
Thanks, bro!!
nice job, is the .pdf for this video also available on your web?
Thank you! It should be available on my Patreon, but you'll have to scroll down to find it. This was probably one of the first things I uploaded on there. Glad you enjoyed the video
you should also check out per nilson 's improv.The other guitarist from messugah.
I'm actually a huge fan of Per thanks to Scar Symmetry! Loved how he approached this tune taking what Fredrik did, but putting his own spin on it.
Per was a step in for Fredrik, now Fredrik is back.
Mårten Hagström is the "other" guitar player in Meshuggah. Per Nilsson was a stand in for Fredrik.
Great content, instant subscribe! I'd love to find a channel like this that incorporates "non jazz" vocabulary with a jazz foundation that is a little bit more keyboard or synth friendly. It's really hard to find good dissonant keyboard vocabulary in this kind of heavier context that doesn't lead you to corny symphonic/power metal unfortunately. Any leads would be appreciated!
Thank you, David! Please do feel free to check out some of the other lesson content on here, as it pertains to not just guitarists, but any musician! If you're looking for similar kind of sounds like this, you may want to check out Olivier Messiaen or Allan Holdsworth, as they kind of follow a similar vein. Some of the more modern Chick Corea records are also a treasure trove of ideas and inspiration!
Always loved Chick's stuff! His more convential material was always a huge inspiration for me in college so I definitely owe myself a deep dive into his more experimental stuff.
@@reversecowboy Same here! I wouldn't be a Jazz musician today without Chick. So many great albums in a variety of projects and settings!
don't know if you know this but fredrik has been to known to use octatonic scale which is half step half step whole step
Yes, it's a hallmark of his language!
What could we call the chord at 8:01? I sat staring at it on my guitar for a few minutes and came up with a few names for it, but none of them really helped or revealed how it could function in a progression.
Chords like this usually depend on whatever the bassist is playing to really contextualise. If we wanted to keep that diminished context in the video, you could think of it like E7(#11,13). You could also think of it as coming from E half-whole diminished, and move it around accordingly (minor 3rd movement). A great exercise I usually give students for finding chord voicings is take the chord and stick every possible bass note underneath it to see what sound it gives you. I may have a video on that lying around somewhere on the channel
Just curious to know if you know how much fredrik and Reb Beach are actually very similar. Both Fredrik and Reb Beach have been my favorite guitarists for at least 12 years now. They are both influenced by Allan Holdsworth. I feel like the same thing is going on but obviously different in approach.
Yes! I actually used to listen to a lot of Reb Beach when I was growing up and going through my shred phase. Great player, and very melodically driven.
@@JuanDhas Nice!
JHEEEEZ
Thanks, man!!
"he recycles material" is an understatement. 😁. But they were the first band to get famous with this sound so they can have it. Unless we wanna argue maybe someone else famous had a similar sound?
dude freds tapping this solo.. lol wtf you are nuts
Hahahaha yes, ever so slightly. Thanks for watching!
In the booklet of the album, Morten is listed as the sole author of the music for this song, so he may have composed the solo
Could be, though I've heard similar ideas on Fredrik's solo album and older Meshuggah material. Either way, it's still some badass writing!
Marten does not do solos. Ever. He said he does not like playing them, and is not a big fan of guitar solos. Fredrik does all solos in Meshuggah. (just because someone wrote a song, doesn't mean they did the solo)
Marten doesn't play solos. He wrote the song, but fredrik improvised the solo.
Fredrick wasn't really a part of TVSoR, but he did provide the solos.
@@MrFRNTIK Fredrik, not Frederick. :)
Well done. However this solo is actually tapped....
Thanks for listening! I cover why I didn't tap the solo in the video.
Yeah, this dude made it even more impressive by hybrid picking it all lol I was NOT expecting that
@@cheyeguy Really kind of you!
uh what????????? nah nah nah.... Chords, keys, and shit, We don't dont do that around Gilgamesh. Chuck that. YOU JUST LAY IT OUT AND PLAY LIKE YOU'RE FUCKING INSANE.