Olivier Messiaen - The Modes of Limited Transposition
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- Опубликовано: 7 апр 2017
- In this episode of Everything Music we are exploring Olivier Messiaen's Modes of Limited Transposition. These are musical modes or scales that fulfill specific criteria relating to their symmetry and the repetition of their interval groups. They were compiled and published in Messiaen's book La technique de mon langage musical "The Technique of my Musical Language" written in 1944.
Messiaen's first mode, also called the whole-tone scale, is divided into six groups of two notes each. The intervals it contains are tone, tone, tone, tone, tone, tone - it has two transpositions and one mode.
The second mode, also called octatonic/diminished/semitone-tone/tone-semitone, may be divided into four groups of three notes each. It contains the intervals semitone, tone, semitone, tone, semitone, tone, semitone, tone - it has three transpositions, like the diminished 7th chord, and two modes:
The third mode is divided into three groups of four notes each. It contains the intervals tone, semitone, semitone, tone, semitone, semitone, tone, semitone, semitone - it has four transpositions, like the augmented triad, and three modes.
The fourth mode contains the intervals semitone, semitone, minor third, semitone, semitone, semitone, minor third, semitone - it has six transpositions, like the tritone, and four modes.
The fifth mode contains the intervals semitone, major third, semitone, semitone, major third, semitone - it has six transpositions, like the tritone, and three modes.
The sixth mode has the intervals tone, tone, semitone, semitone, tone, tone, semitone, semitone - it has six transpositions, like the tritone, and four modes.
The seventh mode contains the intervals semitone, semitone, semitone, tone, semitone, semitone, semitone, semitone, tone, semitone - it has six transpositions, like the tritone, and five modes.
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I love this video so much. So much valuable information packed into one video, as always. I want to learn more Messiaen now...
Oh hey, nice to see you here
I thought her name seemed familiar
Another great video! A few other interesting facts:
-Messiaen was also a mystic and devoutly religious (but the good kind).
-He composed and performed a quartet for prisoners in a Nazi camp while a prisoner himself.
-He lived/taught in at Paris Conservatory in the winters, then composed and recorded birdsong in the Alps in the summer.
-As a young boy he carried Debussy's opera score Pelléas et Mélisande around like a favorite coloring book.
Chronochromie was the first piece by him I heard one day on the classical radio in Newport News Va in Mom's car. I thought at first it might be a Zappa classical piece. Boy was I wrong. And Happy too!
This is theory as it should be taught: with enthusiasm, awareness, mastery and simplicity.
Many thanks for this.
There are five basic forms to divide the octave into equal parts (NOTE: Existence of octave equivalence, enharmonic equivalence and 12 tone equal temperament is assumed in order to understand this)
FIRST BASIC FORM - TRITONE - 12 semitones divided by 2 equal parts = 6. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 2 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2, T3, T4, T5)
Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 6 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance:
1+5 (and its rotation 5+1)
2+4 (and its rotation 4+2)
1+1+4 (and its rotations 1+4+1/4+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 5
1+2+3 (and its rotations 2+3+1/3+1+2)
2+1+3 (and its rotations 1+3+2/3+2+1)
1+1+1+3 (and its rotations 1+1+3+1/1+3+1+1/3+1+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 4
1+1+2+2 (and its rotations 1+2+2+1/2+2+1+1/2+1+1+2/1+1+2+2) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 6
1+1+1+1+2 (and its rotations 1+1+1+2+1/1+1+2+1+1/1+2+1+1+1/2+1+1+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 7
SECOND BASIC FORM - AUGMENTED TRIAD - 12 semitones divided by 3 equal parts = 4. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 3 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2, T3)
Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 4 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance:
1+3 (and its rotation 3+1)
1+1+2 (and its rotations 1+2+1/2+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 3
THIRD BASIC FORM - DIMINISHED CHORD - 12 semitones divided by 4 equal parts = 3. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 4 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2)
Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 3 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance:
1+2 (and its rotation 2+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 2
FOURTH BASIC FORM - WHOLE TONE SCALE - 12 semitones divided by 6 equal parts = 2. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into six equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 1
FIFTH BASIC FORM - CHROMATIC SCALE- 12 semitones divided by 12 equal parts = 1. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into twelve equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0). This scale only can be divided into intervals smaller than the semitone (quarter tones, etc)
In brief, there are 16 sonorities (included the 5 basic forms listed above) with limited transposition: 7 modes of limited transposition by Messiaen and 9 remaining sonorities which are truncations of Messiaen's modes. If you are familiar with pc set theory or another combinatory tool, you can trace another interesting properties of these modes. Playing and transposing these modes is the best method to catch their particular essence.
Greetings from Bogotá, Colombia. Excellent RUclips channel.
Great post!
Love It!
Fortunately I'm classical trained and I had the honor and pleasure of "studying" Mr. Messiaen. Stunning!
Rick is the man! For anyone reading this, besides the more commonly used modes discussed here like the diminished and whole tone, Allan uses the 3rd mode of limited transposition all the time. It's part of his signature sound for going outside. Listen to Allan's City Nights at the 1:47 mark. He plays licks like that or variations all the time. In Allan's REH instructional video he calls this mode simply the symmetrical scale.
Yep, I heard that immediately. It lays on the fingerboard well!
„Danke schön“ for explaining, Rick!
Time Stamp 5:58
I instantly think of Allan Holdsworth on Synthaxe and I think of Star Trek for some weird reason!
That REH video has some of my favorite Holdsworth solos. I listen to it over and over. Even have it burn to a disc for listening in the car. It's insane.
These modes can sometimes sound a bit arbitrary without an elaborate context , but listen to visions de l'amen and you get a world of expressive power. Anyone who's at all interested in this video definitely listen to that piece; it's like dying. Also Messiaen's use of rhythm is completely insane. I wouldn't even try to go into what he does rhythmically but it can't be overstated.
"Quartet for the End of Time". Haunting. Written while Messiaen was a prisoner of the Nazis.
Toru Takemitsu (who loves Messiaen's music) use the whole tone scale, the octatonic and most of the time, the w-1/2-1/2 scale as a fundamental part of his music, specially in his early and latest years of his life.
Takemitsu was the one who introduced me to both modern Japanese music, but also modern Japanese cinema.
I don't understand your notation w-1/2-1/2 . What scale is it (in semitones notation or notes)? is it one of Messaien's mode or another particular to Toru Takemitsu ?
If we start on C, for example:
C-D (W) -> Eb-E (1/2) -> F-F# (1/2), it's part of Messiaen's, "Third Mode," which follows and repeats the intervals: W--1/2--1/2... so an entire scale could be: C-D, Eb-E, F-F#, G#-Bb, B-C, Db-D. :) Toru used this mode in a lot of his compositions, borrowing it from Messiaen. :)
One of my favourite Takemitsu pieces is, "All In Twilight II: Dark;"--check out versions by Giacomo Fiore, and Franz Halasz!
Takemitsu was the man. I also love his essays
glad to see someone appreciating Takemitsu's music. in his earlier carrier he was quite the Messiaen Fan boy ^^
I like to call Messiaen's Mode 7, Antidominant since it has literally EVERYTHING but the major 3rd and flat 7th.
That's some depth, bro!
I mean I get it, but if the mode starts from C you still have G-B-D-F in there soo...😂
Mode 3 at 6:00 sounds like the beginning to Allan Holdsworth's "Wardenclffe Tower"
The "Modes Of Limited Transposition"was also where Anthony Jackson got his playing approach.
He stated that in an issue of Guitar Player mag back in the early eighties.
Listen to his solo in Steve Khan's Live "The Suitcase"
You'll hear the influence it in it.
I've forgotten all the music theory I did years ago, all I know is that when listening to much of Messians organ music, it really takes you to another place. Amazing stuff
Thank Rick for this demonstration. I've heard lectures and even written papers on the modes of limited transposition, and yet your demonstration with examples was even more illuminating. I look forward to working these into my writing soon!
I really love Messiaen's concepts. There is so much interesting melodic and harmonic content that you can pull from his scales.
I love this video. II hope you'll do more analyses of classical music of the 20/21st centuries. I'm listening to Berg's violin concerto now. It would be a thrill to hear you talk about that. THANK YOU!
Thank you Rick! I have played and loved Messiaen's piano music for many years. I appreciate how concisely you explain his styles.
these scales have a really ''messianic'' sound!
That pun made me real cross
Lord take those bloody sardines off my Ondes Martenot
I just discovered this channel and Rick is a tremendous teacher. Thanks so much!
Rick, I am delighted to hear you talk about my favorite composer and put his theory into simpler and concise terms that a rock musician can understand. Its great as a non-music college major to have some access to music theory whenever I need it, especially from artist I really respect. Keep up the the good work
My favorite French composer and one of my favorite composers overall.
Really interesting lesson. My ears and my mind are finally starting to get diminished harmonies. This class took me several steps further.
Thanks for this video Rick. Fantastic as ever. I love Messiaen. His Vingt regards sur l'Enfant-Jésus is essential listening for anyone who loves piano. Keep up the great work Rick, you are an inspiration.
Hey Rick! Awesome video as always. I've been getting into Messiaen a lot lately so it was great to hear such a well-rounded, detailed lesson about his modes of limited transposition. Also, since I know you're a huge Radiohead fan. I was playing with the Octatonic scale quite a bit the other day and I noticed that the guitar riff in the chorus of "Just" is all an octatonic scale. Pretty cool stuff I thought you might enjoy. Anyways, thanks for the epic lesson!
I was lucky enough to meet Messiaen in 1986. Wish I could have spent some time with him! Although he really didn't like to speak English. This video is a great example of what an excellent teacher you are!
Sir, you will go to heaven. Thank you for this video.
Thanks so much for your informative lectures. Especially this one which I play to my class; a certain music examination system defines the modes as only transposing ONCE! Grrrr!!!
love this ! thank you ! beautiful sounds !
I like the way you so obviously appreciate it at an aesthetic level.
As far as condensed knowledge goes, this is just fantastic! I'm sharing this with my bass students and colleagues (I know many who would benefit from a "recall" on many of the covered subjects)! Great job indeed!
I like this modified octatonic scale:
A B C D Ef F F# G (just one semitone modification from a regular octatonic)
It contains:
7 out of 8 notes of the octatonic scale
5 out of 6 notes of the whole tone scale
A stack of 5 4ths (or 5ths)
2 minor triads
several 7th chords
Plus several other interesting, pleasant chords.
Flexible and useful. I wrote five very different-sounding compositions using it.
I adore Messiaen...I even dedicated a composition of mine to him...pure genius!
Excellent, Rick. Thank you.
Rick, my faith in you is confirmed. I saw Turangalila last night, having known it for 50 years and you unlocked a vast gallery of doors today, especially into the piano part.Debussy led the way.Messian,s Quartet for the End of Time is Trane - ish. Also based on a Supreme Love.
Like always, thanks a million Rick!!!
Thank you Maestro Beato, you really teach.
Mode 2 reminded me of Dutilleux's Sonata for piano (especially the third movement), while mode 6 can be directly found in Ligeti's "Fanfare" for piano (the ostinato all along)
Yes! This is something I actually studied a lot, can't wait to hear what you have to say on it!
So Mode 3 looks like an enrichment to the augmented scale, adding an extra flat before landing every minor step, and Mode 7 looks like an enrichment to the diminished scale, splitting every odd full step. Thank you for offering this great content!
Beautiful lesson, excellent guidepost for those interested in these harmonies
Man, thanks a lot, I liked Messiaen's work but I never grasped this perspective to his music. Man, thanks a lot.
Thank you so much! Great explanation!!
Messiaen was one of the Modernist era's great geniuses. Like the Beethoven of his day.
Dude first the rock n roll video and now a Messaien ? Right on man. I had no idea Quoncy Jones and Stockhausen were his pupils. I love Quartet for the end time .
Thank you for this well made video also for me on the topic of modernity, new music, which I am currently working on through the 'Philosophy of New Music' by Adorno and other works of 'Neue Musik' literature!
This video just changed my life
This video is a fine way to expose us to these scales, how they are built, how they sound, and what some of their internal ramifications are. I am surprised, though, that various technical inaccuracies in this presentation have not been commented upon or caught and later fixed by Beato. One problem seems to originate from the fact that Messiaen used one word, "mode" with two different meanings. The other seems to come from the fact that Messiaen in numbering the modes, can easily lead one to referring to them in an ordinal way (first versus one, second versus two, third versus three, etc.). But we also refer to shifts in the sequence of intervals of scales as first or second mode, and so on. Also, there is a lack of clarity concerning the difference between these kind of modal shifts of a given scale and what a transposition of a scale is. For example, when Rick is discussing Messiaen's Mode One or Whole Tone scale, he gives us the scale starting on C, then says, because Messiaen tells us it has one mode, that the Whole Tone scale starting in C# is that one mode. But that is not another mode, that is a transposition. And in saying the Whole Tone has one mode, Messiaen means that the Whole Tone lacks any additional modal shifts that would change the sequence of intervals. That is, it has NO Other modes. Whole Tone already IS that one mode. Starting on C# is its transposition. The problem, I think starts off from Messiaen's nomenclature, which can twist up any instructor in trying to present them.
I came here out of recommendation from max reger’s symphonic fantasie and fugue and was not disappointed. I’m gonna study these religiously whenever i get the chance. The emotions they provoke are so exact it’s perplexing to me
thank you! this was an eye opener
A lot of magic on this RUclips channel !
You are a music addict . I say that In a good way. We need people like you to push us further . It Is Impressive . You have made music your life.
So in my studies Messiaen has been coming up quite a bit, thank you for the break down.
thank you thank you thank you i am on a BIG Messiaen trip = loved him so much in school now i am BACK !!!
This is awesome! Thanks so much!
I like how quickly you got on with it!
Messiaen is a genius
Thanks. Mode 3 looks like a whole tone scale with an added 'passing tone' every other tone. Allan Holdsworth said he used it ' to change keys' in a segment from his VHS instructional tape I saw on youtube.
Those videos are the best!
Awesome! Loved everyone's comments, lots of info for further investigation.
Woot! More please!
Thanks Rick! Useful stuff!
Always greatly useful! :)
Fantastic!
A great modern example of some of these modes is Meshuggah, particularly their later stuff. Most of it uses the 2nd scale here the half whole diminished scale with the root being F. They also use the whole tone, chromatic and scale 3 from this video as well. Their lead guitar player Fredrik Thordendal bases most of his improvised solos for their music off these scales as well!
This is great stuff.
Ha! Thought I was cool for using 2 of these. Wait there's more? (There's always more, and I love that) Thank you Rick
Rick! Always so esoteric and informative, you are. I am hoping to hear you someday discuss Nicholas Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns! Any plans for that? Thanks so much for all you've done and all you're doing.
I need to find my book again. I was going to do a video pn it but can't find it. I may need to buy another one.
Thanks for the reply, Rick. Amazon has 'em for around $21 used and $24 new at the moment.
Hey Ed - I haven't heard him talk about Zappa except when he interviewed Vai, so I wonder what his thoughts are on FZ's modern classical pieces.
Eros Delorenzi you could use a two handed tapping technique, separating the ead and gbe strings between your left and right hands
love it thank you
Your educational field goes to the infinity
Amazing.
Excellent! Thx
Nice, I was watching Allen Holdsworth's explanation of scales and his Scale 10 'symmetrical' seems to be Messiaen's third mode; also covered in Jens Larsen's video on Holdsworth's Sixteen Men of Tain solo.
I'm actually kind of proud that I discovered these concepts on my own as an autodidact. And now I'm happy that I have a name for it. What a great video!
Great stuff sir.
super helpful! thanks!!
This is a great video.
you are a really cool dude man...txs for your vids..
Great for soundscaping. I suspect Robert Fripp uses these quite a bit.
Exactly. Actually he used few of these scales cos he was influenced by Stravinsky. And Messiaen's scale was his recopilation of his own taste plus what he heard and read in Stravinsky/Bartok/Debussy/Ravel's music.
Fantastic Rick! Could you delve into more topics of Messiaen's book in later videos?
AWESOME.
Late response but would be cool to have a part 2 of this one. How to make music with these modes, both from a composition perspective but maybe more while improvising. Great vid cheers.
just .... thank YOU mister.
great! thanx agin
Love all of your videos so far Rick. Particularly excited about this one since I've been messing with some of Messiaen's ideas of late. Mode 5 sounds like canned Morton Feldman, beautiful.
I have to ask, what's the piano library you use on your vids?
Rick - check out Nelson Veras, a Brazilian jazz guitarist that uses modes 3 & 4 quite a bit. His self-titled release is amazing.
Thank you for the tip! I'm brazilian and I didn't know Nelson Veras
Also flutist Magic Malik, pianist Jozef Dumoulin, sax player Bo van der Werf and some more, all musical partners of Veras!
Came here after Nelson Veras video. Rick is definitely a beast!
This is so cool
Another famous (in France) composer & Messiaen student, who took over his chair after he died, was Betsy Jolas.
the recorded example of the octatonic scale immediately brought to mind Fantasia on a them by Thomas Tallis.
Also, the only film score I know where these modes are used is Lalo Schifrin's Mission Impossible (The Plot's theme, using second mode); could you give more examples of film scores where the other modes appear?
Mode 7 is beautiful!
YOU ARE THE BEST
14:38 That's a cool sounding suspended chord. I hear that a lot in the early episodes X-Files.
Cheers I think of holdsworth when I hear these modes especially the 3rd one
Excellent video. Does anyone know where can I find all of the transposed scales for the 3rd mode?
You do a great job Rick
Do you have Elliott Carter's Harmony book?
I would like to send it to you..
Perhaps an attache file?
I would love for you to do a video on it.
Kid A, Radiohead's album, was influenced by this composer. Hats off
Sorry for posting this 2 years later, but I think your explanation at @1:50 could be improved :
There is only one mode to the whole tone scale because you cannot do any other combination, it's always going to be a serie of wholetones (in your example, Db-Eb-F-G-A-B-Db is not a mode of the wholetone scale, but a transposition).
I'm no expert though, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks all these brilliant videos Rick !
The 4th mode😍
The chords at around 3:00 were used in the Zelda: Ocarina of Time OST for the Ice Cavern I think.
Hey Rick, do you happen to know any pieces of music that make use of Mode 6? Love all your content, thanks for everything.
Yeah I'm definitely using those augmented triads together.
10/10 Stravinsky would approve
actually Stravinsky said
“All you need to write like him [Messiaen] is a large bottle of ink."