The REAL Reason Ticket Fees Exist
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- Опубликовано: 22 дек 2022
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Watching in TV better . You can see Taylor swift in close up on TV but not in a concert stadium
@@xsforreal the real value of Bitcoin in 2022 is about $250,000 .
It's time to buy now before it's too late
Hello hello can you hear me
@@dongshengdi773 is anyone there
This is exactly right. In court, Ticketmaster said it had no problem being “Ticket Bastard”. It was part of their offering to the artists, venues and promoters.
I think Polymater though is missing a key piece of the puzzle. With the rise of streaming the amount of money artists, producers and music labels are making from direct sales has dwindled to almost nothing. Stream fees also can't come close to replacing the income from CDs. Artists who used to go on tour to promote their new album therefore now put out a new album so they can go on tour with it because live appearances are the bulk of their income. Therefore, the rise far faster than inflation of ticket prices not only represents artists and the music industry getting better at cutting out scalpers, but also them having to get better at fully exploiting thus revenue stream since it is subsidizing everything else in the music industry from new albums to Spotify. You can't think of live music the same way you did in the past where an artist makes appearances to please and stir up their fans. Now it is them bringing home the bacon, so rocking the boat trying to lower hidden fees or price is a lot riskier and asking a lot more of artists.
@@jofujino Spotify gives away 70% of it's revenue to the rights-holders.
Looking at the prices of CDs vs the cost of Spotify, I think people are spending as much money on Spotify as they did on CDs (if Spotify did their work well), probably even more.
Remember, radio was also a thing, so not everyone bought hundreds of CDs ;). Not to mention the large-scale piracy using tapes.
The main reason that could have moved this would be that (a) Netflix + other streaming services compete for the listener's time, and (b) income of people hasn't really followed inflation (and live music / CDs is a luxery good).
I think the biggest artists probably lost a bit to streaming, but not because of dwindling sales. It's because recorded music is more of a commodity, and less of a high-valued asset. This means that instead of buying all the Taylor Swift CDs, someone may listen to some of her songs, but also some smaller artists. Smaller artists that would have never been listened to without streaming services.
Also, for smaller artists, tours are not at all profitable, but then again, the industry has always been such that most artists barely make anything, while the top 1% makes most of the cash. This is logical, because a bigger artist sells more tickets, at a higher price, and with a bigger cut of the pie.
You fell gor that nonsense. When you have a monopoly then there is no choice. Ticketmaster makes money off scalpers
@@nanderv I wouldn't say so.
I work in the industry, and there are more complexities to commercial ticketing than can be covered by a 15 minute vid.
But ultimately, I agree that top-shelf artists like Swift absolutely have the power to effect change if they really wanted to. But the reality is they are creaming it from these sky-high ticket prices... and frankly they're probably too busy being fabulous to concern themselves with the nuts and bolts of ticketing and venue management.
Of course it's not going to change overnight, but as the single biggest beneficiaries and mandate holders in the industry beyond some label big wigs, that's where we have to start to enact change.
The real problem is "celebrity worship" and people failing to realize the artist they like is only the case because it's advertised to them. 8/10 times that's the only reason people like an artist.
It further should be realized celebrity income from literally everything except concerts has plummeted ever since spotify.
I imagine that's probably the biggest source of their revenue now that selling music really doesn't generate much.
There’s not exactly anything complex about making a Boolean for each seat and not fucking overselling or illegally hiding seats
literally. How do people think taylor swift affords to fly her private jet on 20 minute lunch runs?
0:33: 🎫 TicketMaster's monopoly in the concert industry allows them to charge astronomical service fees and control the ticketing process.
3:16: 🎵 Artists artificially price their tickets below market value to maintain their image and capture extra value through secondary sales.
6:42: 💰 TicketMaster's monopoly in the music industry is driven by exclusive contracts with venues and the promise of increased revenue through service fees.
9:57: 🎫 TicketMaster's service fees are not entirely their fault, as artists negotiate high guarantees or percentages of ticket sales, leaving less money for other parties involved.
12:48: 🎵 Musicians have the power to negotiate better terms that benefit everyone in the music industry.
Recap by Tammy AI
Surprised you didn't at least touched on how the demise of the album/CD/physical music industry caused concert ticket costs to skyrocket.
Used to be, groups toured at break-even, because selling tickets promoted sales of the new album. They literally called it "touring in support of an album." Now that most folks don't buy physical copies of music, touring has to be profitable in its own right, not a loss-leader to convince fans to to go buy an album.
I get ticketmaster isn't entirely to blame but I think laws need to be passed to at least prevent them from owning the venue similar to how movie studios aren't allowed to own cinemas too.
I mean they kinda are....they started the seed for this along time ago.
Agreed
Or the way aircraft manufacturers aren't allowed to own their own airlines
"how movie studios aren't allowed to own cinemas too"
AMC sliding under the doorway by not making The Walking Dead movie rn
Yeah but then you think these local venues have the capability to build websites that can handle the insane demand?
The problem is that Ticketmaster charges the ticket as a "convenience fee". What is convenience? I don't have another option to buy a ticket. So this isn't convenience to me. Back in the day when you could get tickets online instead of a paper ticket, I get it. Now they just need to list it as their cute.
As stated in the video, you don't need to pay a convenience fee if you buy the ticket from the venue.
Not only that but most people would even prefer having a physical wristband.
So, in summary, ticket prices are expensive because they’re worth a lot more than you’d think. Artists pretend to have cheap tickets by working together with ticketmaster, which charges closer to the market price in “service fees”, and part of that goes back to the artist.
In reality, ticketmaster can only make people pay how much the ticket is worth, which is the amount people are willing to pay. The artist just plays a scapegoat trick. Ticketmaster is paid to take the blame.
I worked for a venue in Europe and indeed, we are profiting mostly of the service fee. While the ticketprice goes (almost) fully to the artist, we could set the servicefee and only a small part of that is for the fees of TM. They act as bogeyman.
But this is Murika. Best country in the world. /s
Nobody wants to admit it, but the biggest artists obviously have the demand to charge thousands per ticket nowadays. They won’t outright price their tickets that high to avoid alienating fans and the public, so TM does it for them with extra service fees and reselling.
This is the real reason! The people saying that tickets prices have become way too expensive for everyone don’t realize that the tickets have just become too expensive for them but there are people willing to pay more. TS doesn’t really care about you as a fan if there are fans willing to pay her more money.
Yeah, similarly, some Broadway hit shows, could charge more but do not do so out of both kindness and publicity.
The problem you're explaining here is capitalism.
How is capitalism the problem, @@tinyhotopicbitch ?
An artist only has so much time and energy to perform in so many different places.
Supply versus demand cares for no one.
@@marlonmoncrieffe0728 Your "supply" is being controlled and restricted by a monopoly and ticket scalpers. You are operating on the fallacy that supply demand is always a necessary evil without acknowledging it can be inherently abusive. Nobody is "choosing" to pay thousands for tickets. They have NO CHOICE.
"Concerts are the opposite of milk" -PolyMatter, 2022
Yeah, tell that to my toilet after I drink milk. Terribly emotional experience for the toilet, for sure
I think a system like the one a lot of Japanese shows use would work well - lottery for a majority of the seats, then a short first come first serve window later on for some other seats. Also, Japan put in an anti-scalping law in 2019 prohibiting exorbitant resale of tickets, and you can get stopped to show ID proof that your ticket is your ticket at the door. They'll turn you away if your ticket wasn't bought by you specifically.
How does the lottery work? Do people pay for a chance to get a ticket?
FIFA does simillar except for the last requirement of needing an ID to match the ticket. The fan ID fifa uses for events is their merely to make sure hooligans dont get in. They do use weighted lotteries and a first come first serve for the remaining tickets.
How would that solve the issue?
@@VineFynn One notable difference is that there’s a firm set price for every type of seat beforehand, which reduces crazy price gouging with demand-based ticket sales. Something I forgot to mention is that the major ticket management vendors in Japan (eplus, ticket PIA, Lawson Tickets) charge around 500 yen in total (like $3) for online e-tickets. I think the completion among so many ticket vendors has kept the prices low, which is nice. The Japanese government has also in somewhat recent times enacted bills that similarly benefit the end buyer, like now cell phone companies can’t charge cancellation fees. Immense competition brings prices way down!
@@SolomonUcko No, you just put your information in and they select randomly once the lottery entry period closes. Unfortunately, this kind of low barrier to entry means there’s always a whole bunch of people entering the lottery, so it’s hard to actually get a ticket…
All of this because PolyMatter couldn't get TS tickets 😂
or paid by ticketmasters
@@user-221i what does ticketmaster give a damn about their public perception, a shitty reputation is the product they sell
As an avid festivals goer the last few years these service fees have gone way too far. These prices be insane now!
Maybe if economy goes into recession next year prices then will come down
@@johnl.7754 so will the concert goers
@@johnl.7754 i doubt it. Demand will still be higher than available tickets
@@Rockmaster867 if theres a recession, festival goers wont have money to pay for it, demand goes down, prices go down
As a Technician in den Event Industry (mostly Television) I want to give >my< perspective on how the event industry has changed in the last few years. Here in Germany a lot of the people in the event industry are self employed and when the pandemic hit about two years ago a lot of those people were unemployed from one day to the next and relief funds where mostly aimed an bigger businesses and not at self employed people. Because of that a lot of people had to either look for a different job (this will be important later) or used money from their savings/retirement funds to survive and pay rent and food. Now that it is possible again to have festivals, concerts and other events there is a huge(!) demand for crew (shows that got postponed and regular scheduled shows now happen basically at the same time). With the high demand and less available people (remember the people who got into other jobs due to the pandemic?) and the remaining people with huge losses in the last two years, they try to regain their loss and raising their day rates. Now a concert that was planned and sold to happen in 2020 and is now happening in 2022 or 2023 has much higher costs as expected but the tickets are already sold so it is not possible to raise the ticket price to reflect the higher expenses. So the higher expanses are calculated into future ticket sales -> higher service fees and overall ticket prices.
got it so it's not ticketmasters fault that they just happened to be the best at being predatory and greed driven. noted.
they're the reputational shields so artists can charge a lot for tickets without looking bad
@@i_am_acai kind of. Like most things in the world today, especially in the US; it would seem that they came about naturally, but their ability to be taken advantage of by the gross economic hooks of the music industry has allowed for them to be used as a sort of pricing scapegoat.
@@asherpins6568 no it's all in the hand of the artist
And a society that was trained to think any kind of regulation is literally worse then **** (insert favorite dictator).
Point is, if it wasn't ticketmaster, it would've been someone else just as bad
The whole industry needs a reality check
Now it makes sense why popcorn cost an arm and a leg in the movie theaters. It's because of the same principle of monopoly in the movie theater industry. The only difference is they don't check your bags when you go into the movie theaters. So I sneak in with my own snacks.😉
I used to work at a high end movie theater. You got a bottomless bowl of popcorn for $5 but then they offered you a full service bar and restaurant in the theater complex 😂 A cheeseburger alone cost like $15 there!
The actual reason why popcorn is so expensive is because it's a theater's main source of revenue. Movie production companies have the upper hand in negotiations, and often manage to snag most of the revenue generated by movie tickets. The massive markup at concessions is the only way theaters can stay in business, and even then theater chains struggle to stay afloat.
Agreed, I hated buying food at theatres, but I soon came to realize this issue when I talked to a theatre owner one time. Since then, even though I didn't like paying the high cost of food, I still did so it help keep them afloat.
The big movie theaters here literally got like airport like security where you literally pass through detectors and they detect food
In the UK it is absolutely fine to take popcorn and sweets in - no smuggling required.
BUT, I personally think you should buy at least 50% of the stuff from them... ",I can tell you this is where they make almost all their revenue. They make so little on the movies its crazy. This is also the reason (in the UK) why petrol stations sell cigarettes and sweets at such a mark up - there is very little profit in selling fuel.
"If Taylor Swift won't charge what she's worth, some random dude in Romania is more than happy to do it for her" killed me
When people are willing to pay, companies will maximise their profit. Why can TicketMaster charge exorbitant fees is the same reason why scalpers exist: People are willing to be held hostage by what they 'want'. If no one is willing to pay more than $100 for a ticket, prices would collapse overnight as venues are left completely empty if tickets were anything above $100. But that's not how it works. The sooner people accept that the artists they worship care nothing more than the amount of money they can extract from you, the sooner people will stop paying through their teeth for tickets.
Exactly.
The solution is simple. Don't go to the concerts, don't give them money and win.
Yeah Ticker master is just a symptom of maximizing profit.
Right now I’m fully convinced it’s because of the pandemic. Entertainment industry is making up for 2020-2022. I use to be a concert junkie. Would attend 6-12 concerts a year. From 2011-2015 I was paying around $250 for front row. 2016-2019 around $500. Post pandemic almost every artist is $900+. That’s way too much of a price hike to just be inflation. Not to mention artists who use to do GA for around $400 are now doing seats for $900+. Concerts aren’t worth it these days.
Many concerts suffered huge losses during covid, also many didnt have insurance that covered pandemics . Because of that even organizers with insurance suffered losses
Maybe part of the responsibility is on the fans. People should be able to say “meh not worth that much” and skip some concerts just like you did. Like going to a casino, unless you decide your limit ahead of time, people abuse that passion/addiction.
@@chefnyc And THAT is the biggest reason I'd speculate. Simply because they CAN. These ticket brokers have a virtual monopoly on the market and it's an emotionally-attached purchase, so they can practically charge whatever they want.
Venues should be more farsighted and charge less to get more, in the long run, than overcharging to make up for past shutdown-related losses.
@@johnsamuel1999 Many businesses had "pandemic insurance" prior to 2020. When they asked compensation from getting shut down by lock-downs, providers pointed to a fine print in the insurance contract specifying that only pandemics caused by "known diseases" -the ones least likely to blow up into a pandemic- are covered.
Not saying that you couldn't have gotten an insurance that would've covered most of your COVID losses, but many small and medium businesses got effectively scammed by insurance companies selling the equivalent of fire insurance that only pays you if your house was burnt down by drunk bear using a very specific type of molotov cocktail.
Another insurance company trick, and what I think was the segway to the pandemic insurance in the video I learned this from, is "flood insurance." This one is less obvious not technically a scam, but if you can't do any business for a week because city is flooded and power is out, you'd expect some kind of payout, right? But insurance company refuses to pay a dime because your physical location itself has not been damaged, despite said location being completely useless without access to power grid.
This got bit brambly. Key takeaway/life lesson here is that insurance companies not only try to weasel their way out of paying you anything, but also try to market you contracts that are unlikely to ever fulfill their conditions for payout.
Consumers can take back power by just not going to the live shows and stop buying the tickets.
That's the answer: tickets are so expensive because people are willing to pay for them. There's a lot more people that want to sit in a stadium at the price of tickets than seats are available, so I don't particularly care if the price shoots up dramatically.
Yup. Refuse.
Be reasonable. That’s it.
Go to small venues and lesser known bands.
Enjoy live music close, screw the ridiculous prices.
That will never happen. Trying to convince a majority to do this is nearly impossible.
@@stoda01boycotting could be the answer to so many of the worlds problems.
But people are never willing to take the inconveniences head on :(
We could also try a violent revolution
This is going to be very difficult to do. Watching your favorite artist in person with the possibility of interacting with them is what makes many people pay astronomical prices willingly.
I'm not saying I'm willing to do the same, but in my opinion, there should be a balance.
The thing that irks me about the service fee the most is that it's often used to skirt around consumer rights legislation. If, for whatever reason, a concert is cancelled by the artist/agent, then since ticketmaster has already provided their service to the customer, by selling them a ticket, they do not have to refund the service fee, potentially leaving the buyer out of pocket through no fault of their own if they can't accept a rescheduled concert (if one is offered at all). Now this may or may not be a way to strongarm customers into purchasing additional insurance which is usually offered through a partner during sale, though of course the customer still ends up out of pocket with the insurance premium.
@@paulmccartney2327 And a Merry Christmas to you too.
The service fees are refunded. The order processing fees which are normally not more than $5 are usually not refunded.
@@johnsamoilis6379 Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. And honestly whether it's $5 or $100, the consumer shouldn't pay for a service they don't get.
As someone who's worked in the music industry for a long time, this is missing a few things and mischaracterizing a few others.
First of all, remember that all of these venues are taking a cut of the artist's merch while not providing any cut of the bar, concessions, parking, or other fees and markups. So even in your top dollar artists who can demand 105% of ticket prices, which is not common, they're still not even getting all of the money they're generating in the building that night. Merch rates are typically 10-30% depending on the venue, and that's even when the artist is providing their own employee to load, unload, set up, and sell it.
Also I think the bigger thing that's upsetting, and where artists have ground to stand on, is the way the ticket prices are changed through the secondary market. The contract between the artist and the promoter sets the ticket prices, of which some percentage is given to the artist. Capacity is meant to be at or near full as that helps to create an intimate experience (100 people in a room that fits 100 is more awe inspiring for attendees than 400 people in a room that fits 1,000). When the show sells out, Ticketmaster controls the secondary market of their tickets with TicketsNow and takes additional fees on those tickets a second time without sharing with the artist.
If the company intentionally holds back tickets, or works with people who do so, it is able to double dip on the ticket fees at higher prices, none of which gets shared with the artist. That is what we are arguing is a breach of contract.
Artists getting a cut of concessions, parking, or bar is a bit odd though. Yes people are coming because of them but they aren't fronting any of the costs for those. That's kind of the deal
@@pugness I agree, but the venue doesn't design, print, deliver, set up, or sell the T shirts either
@@ChrisGraue but the merch is sold in the venue, so its fair
@@ChrisGraue ya that's weird I always assumed that was 100% artist
No idea how widespread this is, but the large arenas in my area (publicly owned) are contractually obligated to give all parking, concession, and merch proceeds to the venue's resident sports team (privately owned). So those funds aren't always going to the venue and there's yet another party with their hand in the pot.
And this is why I love buying $25-30 standing room tickets to local artists like Sarah Jarosz and Adia Victoria+Lilly Hiatt at our local Nashville Venues (including the last week of the Exit/In's independent operation) and I am in no rush to buy, and I can buy tickets on an impulse for artists I am only loosely familiar with and never be disappointed because they are always amazing, the surprises are part of the fun, and I am out almost nothing with a single drink at the bar going for half the cost of ticket. I am going to miss that when I eventually move, but until then, I am going to buy as many cheap tickets to artists I don't need to be selective about, since there is such an abundance of talent, and the joy of falling in love with artists I want to discover
Thats honestly why I loved houston. THere are always concerts and tons of indie bands with tickets from 10 to 30 dollars. It really is fun seeing bands you don't know!
same here in denver. there's so many awesome small venues and local bands that kick ass. and at least with red rocks you can go buy at the box office no fees
Got to see Adia Victoria in a small venue in PDX. She’s amazing!
As a Romanian, I feel the need to say that the observation is true and I'm scalping tickets for profit
Lol, this is a USA problem. Ticketmaster in the UK isn't like this. Fees typically account for about 10% of the total ticket cost. Usually lower, like £3-5
The service fees dont only go to ticket master. Most go to venue owners
Genuinely I was watching like, how can this company be making all its money from service fees when I've never seen one more than a fiver?? Like yes they're a pain, and it really pisses me off when you have to pay it on every ticket (it's one transaction, you don't need to do any more work to sell me ten tickets than one), but compared with the £125 ticket to see a world class act, I can't imagine it's the service fees that is raking in the profit for ticketmaster.
The Audible ad read, has me in stitches!! well played my friend... 😂👏
This is a very good backstory about ticketmaster and ticket sales, but you absolutely fail to highlight the changes in business models since the 1990's and the role of ClearChannel/LiveNation in getting a firm grip on the entire industry. 360 contracts, exclusivity contracts, out-competing the competition for a decade because of the reach & power that a company like CC/LN had compared to traditional agents/bookers/venues, pushing them out of the market. It was a monopoly scheme backed by the largest company in broadcasting & publicity.
They have been setting this model up since the mid 90s and the music industry has been protesting it for years, I have a T-shirt from 2001 that reads "stop the ClearChannel monopoly".
Yep. Want the price to drop? Stop going.
The general problem is how concentrated the public interest is. If you spread that interest across all of the bands that have existed in the lifetime of the Rolling Stones, all of the potential regional sports teams, etc, such leisure activities wouldn't cost so much.
The general public has sadly never been a bastion of discerning taste and esoteric preferences.
And also, in the case of Taylor, there's a lot of rich international fans flying into the US for this tour
This is just another reason to be a fan of metal, the last few concerts I've been to were only $20-40 per show.
Local music scene was always cheap. Often just cover price, $10-20. If a known band came in, maybe double that. But sometimes you wanna see a big name, you know?
The fact that anyone would pay $hundreds of dollars for T. Swift tickets says a lot about this culture in general 🤔😒
@@GUNMETALGUYUSA Because Taylor Swift puts up a great show.
@@bread2951 😶
Have you seen the prices of Metallica's new tour?
“Concerts are the opposite of milk”
Such a weird anology lol
That's a quote for a wall tattoo xD
he obviously just stuck that quote in to get free comments like yours, and you fell for it.
Watch all PolyMatter videos at 1.5x speed
Edit: Actually just this video at 1.5x and the rest at 1.25x for subscribers who aren't on speed (2x lol).
took this advice and cant be more thank ful @home streaming
Agreed
Going back to 1.0x speed feels like slow-motion now
I did not used to do that, but this video was especially slow
i do 2x on most yt videos
I feel like this video also leaves out a very important point... the fact that the basic reason prices CAN be so high (and all the other fees around them can exist) is being supply is relatively finite while demand just increases for top-tier artists over time along with population growth. Only so many shows can be played. Venues can only be but so big once you're already playing the largest arenas. An artist can only be at one venue a night and can only play but so many shows a year. And yet the number of fans will only continue to rise for the top-tier artists. So we can expect this issue to only get worse over time,
This is the reason why I ain't been to a concert at all
7:08. I would fight someone if I paid for concert tickets only for a camera guy to hover around the artist wtf
Since the rise of streaming music, no one buys records anymore, so artist don’t get paid that way they get paid through touring and concerts back in the old days you used to tour to get people to buy your record now it’s the complete opposite you make a record and hope people want to pay to see you on tour
"Concerts, on the others hand, are just about the opposite of milk"
Previously unsaid sentences
The whole system is corrupt. They can easily stop scalpers by making the tickets to only that person like a boarding pass for a flight.
Why do that? That would screw customers who want to buy for friends and family, and customers who end up being unable to go and wants to sell it or give it to someone else.
Video: Its the Artists and Ticketmaster's fault
Comment Section: Bunch of Stan forgiving their queen and saying its only Ticketmaster's fault
would love to see an episode on sam bankman and FTX
Interesting subject, thanks ! I’m wondering, why are concert/festival tickets so cheap in Europe compared to the US for example ? Is the system more reglemented ? We don’t have Ticketmaster (at least in France) but could it be one day ?
Could be a factor of how many more people are willing to pay for expensive tickets in the US vs Europe. Consumer culture across the two regions is pretty different, indicated e.g. by how much more credit card debt is in the US vs European countries.
I'm quite sure it's due to laws around service fees, service fees for Ticketmaster in the Netherlands are like 9 euros at most, while in the US the service fees can be hundreds of Dollars, which I'm quite sure is not allowed in Europe
The US is plagued with Ticketmaster lobbyists that make sure laws aren't passed that give consumers leverage.
We dont have ticket master in Europe so we are saved. Most ive paid for a ticket was for a Sabaton A class ticket (Basically first couple front rows) For the Avicii Arena Stockholm and they cost me about 1.3k SEK Or about 120 Euros.
@@hamzabajwa1960 there's definitely that, perhaps the greater importance small to medium venues/artists as well?
It is your own duty to ask if the thing being sold to you is worth the asking price. You are competing with others for a limited supply of something.
Ticketmaster here in Australia charge me a $10 fee to get the ticket sent to me in the mail, if I want the "convenience" of printing it myself I have to pay a $10 convenience fee
Which did you do?
It's a combination of the two. The artists reap the benefits of soaring ticket prices; meanwhile ticketmaster gets to be the biggest player in the game
ticketmaster got a yt channel??
Every major company has social media.
It's refreshing to see some really solid economics talked about. I'm grateful for your channel.
Brand new sentence "Concerts are just the opposite of milk"
This video brought to you by TicketMaster. (It really wasn't us, we swear)
Yeah I feel like Ticketmaster has to be giving these channels free tickets or something, how can this channel defend the blatantly obvious monopoly without any gain? It’s shady and very sad that this channel has turned into a mouth piece for horrible companies.
@@ObesePuppies He's not defending them and by your reaction to ticketmaster it seems they're doing their job well, as said in the video the cause for the high ticket prices stem from all actors involved, and as he points out in videdo the one with the most power to change this dynamic lies with the top 1% of musician who are easily able to fill in venues, but then again it seems all involved(except for the ticket buyers) seem to be happy with the status quo.
He is not defending them, he is just stating the facts that ticket master is not the only culprits
Ticketmaster allows "reselling" (digital scalpers). That way, they get that chunk of change no matter whose cheeks are in the seats.
Or if no cheeks are in the seats. I've been to many sold out concerts with empty seats in every other row. Scalpers bought them, couldn't sell them all, but made enough money to eat the cost of a few unsold seats.
5:50 Here in Singapore some of the 'holds' are probably the early-bird sales to preferred credit card holders, & I believe these credit card companies pay quite a bit to the concert organizer & get sponsorship rights too
Really excellent video, thanks for this one :D
Basically artist and venues are increasing prices and fees, by using ticketmaster as a reputational field. Basically they are taking advantage of ticketmaster bad reputation
There's a certain irony to promoting audible in a video about monopolies. Not judging you for taking the sponsorship, but the irony is kind of funny (and more than a little sad)
I can't think of any other customer transaction where the "product" price can changed dynamically, and / or, you have to pay a fee to buy it. I've bought groceries, cars, houses, and I only paid the advertised price - no add-ons. The seller assumes that in their retail pricing.
Because fans never blame the artist
I wish riot would of done the same. For worlds you waited in a queue to buy tickets in ticket master only to have no chance of buying once in due to bots snatching them up. list price was $150-170. Average scalped ticket cost $700-1200 before $200 in service fees
My boy just made an entire video after being scalped.
A video saying the scalper did nothing wrong
So glad that where I lived the past 6 years has a vibrant indepedent venue scene where I don't have to deal with this BS. Hate to be an indie snob but it's because of crap like this that I don't take most well-known musicians & performers seriously. How can those "artists" spew vapid platitudes like "we're all in this together" or "it's all about the music" with a straight face when they surge price concert seats like Uber and end up with stupidity like $300 a seat in the nosebleeds? Hundreds of dollars a seat for 2 hours of entertainment ain't rock n' roll and hell even at that price you still have to pay *extra* for concessions and merchandise. Only in the entertainment business can you both have crushing monopolies like Ticketmaster, and also have a wealth distribution & a lack of worker protections among artists that would make an MLM blush. Unlike most people I am willing to pay for physical media alongside paying to go to concerts, but I *refuse* to be gouged like this. I don't want to be a hipster but live mainstream music is nothing more than an extortion racket that most people simply can't afford anymore. And all for the most subpar, nothing burger, meaningless "music" that I'm constantly told is "engaging" for some reason. I refuse to be emotionally manipulated or taken advantage of like this so no, I won't go to any concert that is involved with Ticketmaster/Live Nation. They don't deserve my money, my time, or my emotional investment, no matter the performer involved.
Today’s short scary story: (Setting: Clinton Road) According to Weird NJ, there is a legend that if someone puts a quarter in the middle of the road where the yellow line is at one of the bridges over Clinton Brook (Dead Man's Curve) near the reservoir, at midnight it will supposedly be promptly returned by the ghost of a boy who drowned while swimming below or had fallen in while sitting on the edge of the bridge. In some tellings an apparition is seen; in others, the ghost pushes the teller into the water if they look over the side of the bridge, in order to save them from being run over as he was in life.
So, are the artists actually getting kickbacks from TicketMaster's fees? That seems to be implied here, but not explicitly stated. If they're not, how exactly do the artists benefit from the contracts?
This video didn't really give me the information I want to know.
not kickbacks per say, but the service fees are split with the promotors, artist, venue, along with tickemaster. His example of the artist asking 105% of ticket revenue as their fee then forces the venue to markup their prices (etc foods, drink etc) and ticketmaster then forces them to up their service fee or else they'll lose money. I think the main point of his video is ticketmaster accepts being the scapegoat for all this and the top 1% of the artists can change this as they hold the most power in this relationship as no artist = no concert/event.
Of course the artists get their share of the cake, as what is stated in the video. Why would an artist proceed with a live event if he or she won't get the bucks lmao
@@aaronwestley3239 they could all (especially ticketmaster) just be not that fucking greedy and everyone would be happy
I've never seen a deal that split the artist in on the fees. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, on the very high end like Taylor Swift it's entirely possible, but every deal I've ever seen keeps those exclusively for the venue and promoter
@@benjoji the whole concept of capitalism rest on corporate greed.
One thing not discussed is a lot of artists have to pay engineers, sound people, and a whole touring crew. Venues also have their own crews to pay. These are the people the costs "should go to", but instead it gets divided between ticketmaster, the artist (and their crew which is why you see inflated merchandise), the promoter (their crew), and the venue (as well as their crew and to do that you get inflated concession stands)
Do you think the tech team is made of slaves?
@@spacetoast7783 No they are workers as well and deserved to be paid. I'm just stating that the money does at least in theory go to other people besides those that are listed.
And not as simple as PolyMatter is discussing.
@@austinhornbeck5060 the production expenses for a sellout stadium tour are trivial compared to revenue. The artist fee will grossly dwarf the expenses, especially if you're only discussing technician labor.
It’s amazing that EA is all the way down to 7th place, how times have changed.
Random dude in Romania? Where did you come up with that?
I try to use smaller providers like Eventbrite or go directly to the box office. It's amazing how high the fees really are.
Meta and Nestle is up there for me, along with Disney, CNN, MSNBC, and LEGO. Too many more to list but I refuse to give any money or ads to those companies.
That's capitalism for you. They're just trying to satisfy their customers, and you're not one of them
Please, what is the course/book or topic name in economics if I want to study how prices are determined like the examples you give at 3:05 (30¢ from reduced fat milk & 5¢ from packaging).
Finally another Polymatter upload :D
I'm subscribed to like 250 channels and Polymatter is my favourite out of all of them. You have a very relaxing voice.
I'm sorry, but saying that TicketMaster isn't to blame ignores a HUGE part of why they are definitely to blame. The merger with LiveNation gave them a top to bottom monopoly of all aspects of the concert industry. They own the venues, bought out all the production and promotion agencies, sell the tickets, and resell the tickets. That last one is huge. Next time tickets go on sale for something, go into their resale site. The tickets for events are there in the very same second that the sale opens, but at huge markups. They cut out scalpers so they can scalp tickets themselves.
tickets are so expensive because people are willing to pay for them. i last looked at live concert tickets in about 2008 for Eric Clapton. even the cheapest tickets were around 400 dollars each before any fees. just too expensive for me
Finally, poly going back to his roots
Oh, wow - finally someone who's not just yells "RRREEE, ticketmaster iz a monopoly" - great video, very thorough.
Didnt mention concert cancels. E.g. Aerosmith skipped EU leg of their long awaited tour and Ticketmaster (LiveNation) sent a one-sided email before the cancellation saying they updated their refund process and wont refund 100%. They kept a percantage. After playing with our money for 2 yrs and skimming the interest.
Incredible how sometimes America works so differently. In Portugal, people cannot buy tickets for a show and then resell them for a higher price. It is illegal and something the police is quite good at fighting. People often try to go to the shows hours before to resell their tickets and often they are arrested for that and have to pay a hefty fine.
So if something comes up you are totally screwed
You can resell your ticket for the same price, written on the ticket itself. And it's quite easy to do so, there are tons of platforms to sell tickets. Above the price listed, then it's illegal
I don‘t understand why they don‘t auction the tickets from the beginning. The price will easier fit demand. Also it requires some extra logic for when buying multiple tickets, which would satisfy the existence of ticketmaster
Then the price of tickets would significantly increase and people would probably blame the artist.
And this is why you don't go to concerts lmao.
Nice! I wish the US had those laws.
@@dannydaw59 Laws that allow you to not buy concert tickets?
Consider also: The artists no longer make money on CD sales the way that they used to. Concert tours used to be about promoting album sales, and the albums made a lot of money for a lot of artists. Concert tours today make up a bigger part of an artist's income than in the past. They are trying to make up some of the difference with higher ticket prices.
This was a remarkably well done video, thank you!
A die-hard fan was very surprised to see an empty seat at the Superbowl...
He noticed a woman sitting next to the empty seat and made a remark about it to her. "Well, it was my husband's", she said. "But he died." "Oh my gosh!" He said. "I'm sorry for your loss, but I'm surprised that another friend or family member didn't jump at the chance to take the ticket." "Beats me", she said. "They all insisted on going to the funeral."
Talking so slowly just to extend the video length, lol
Very interesting, love it!
Really nice video, PolyMatter team!
Louis CK sold out stadium shows using his own ticketing. Artists like Taylor Swift could turn a field into a venue with a snap of a finger. There are tens of thousands of great independent venues in north america. Almost anything can be turned into a venue when a few million dollars is nothing for you (and you stand to make much more). Ticketmaster could easily be defeated by an artist like Taylor Swift if she cared to, with no work for her and just good PR as a result. She could do a national tour using completely outdoor built venues, and she and her promoters and everyone else would still get rich off of it. They just don't want to be bothered. Source: im a promoter who specializes in building unique popup venues for one-off shows, with the kind of budget these people use you can scale these up to any size
You want a fyre festival? that's how you get a fyre festival
@@micahbonewell5994 got a fire festival because the promoter had no experience at a location with no access to plumbing or electricity or even roads, everything had to be floated in or flied in (this makes your budget 10x), and grossly underestimated their budget.
That event needed a year of planning not 90 days, and 10 times more money, and a serious person to run it. That was some tech bro dropout thinking he could throw a rave on an island because it 'looks easy'.
It's not easy it takes professionals with actual abilities. You need security you need fencing you need insurance you need facilities you need EMTs you need engineers to install all of the effects and lasers and visuals and stage you need professionals, you need structural engineers to make sure the rigging is secure and safe and the ground is solid. You need a professional to survey the grounds and put up barriers where there might be choke points so that there aren't crush events.
Add to that in fire festivals case they needed to build hundreds of units of housing. They didn't do any of that and that's just the beginning of what you need to do.
But a team of pros CAN do it and it's not that much more expensive than pre-booking venue that's owned by a monopoly, and your fans get a way better experience, and you can totally prevent price gouging and scalping. If you actually care as an artist you can absolutely do things boutique and at scale with a little bit of imagination.
I could build Taylor Swift five safe concerts in my region, with a year notice for 10,000-15,000 atendees safely for like 7 million dollars. Her take home after expenses (not counting merch or beverages/food) would be at least $1.3 million per show, or around 7 million for 5 shows. She can probably pull in another 2 or 3 million on upselling and another million or two on VIP packages.
And I'm a small fry compared to some of the people who do this who own all of their own rigging and staging and lighting and sound and trucks and don't have to rent it like I do. Although renting is nice cuz you get insurance if something happens it's not like you lose your stuff. Setting up a website to sell tickets is incredibly easy just need to give AWS heads up that there is going to be a massive rush, or you can use reservation numbers via SMS/email and skip the huge DNS event
I know people who could build a 25,000 person venue from scratch using the stuff in their own Warehouse in 3 days (providing you can find a good dry 50 acre field) which is not a rare thing in America.
Today's market situation is in part a consequence of Ticketmaster's decisions. Additionally, there are many ways to make the conditions more fair for consumers, which Ticketmaster does not implement. Ticketmaster may not be at fault for the entire market situation, but it does not perform much better in the segments in which it has control.
I remember seeing a Yoasobi ticket sell for about $125. Good thing I don't give enough of a f***, lest I part with money that is better spent elsewhere.
Maybe prohibit scalping? This forces the venue to set reasonable rates and create more stability in pricing, and artificial supply and demand. If you have actual fans, bots, and scalpers trying to buy tickets that creates a higher demand than it actually is. The more people are willing to pay up front with a strained supply of tickets means those tickets will be resold later. Profits from scalpers will not go to artists, or venues, and thus why venues often charge service fees since the expenses are coming from sales only.
Musicians have a responsibility to produce wonderful music and experiences. It isn't fair to impose on them the responsibility of ticketing but I feel like if they do take on that it would help if they received higher portion of service fees. This will make a fan more likely to pay for a ticket, because they know the artist will receive more and will be able to reinvest, if they like, on music production equipment, marketing, etc. This can work to support a capitalistic notion that the consumer comes out on top and has access to affordable, quality product.
All high demand concert tickets should be locked to a cell phone number or something, so that they can't be transferred to a different customer. This should prevent scalping over night.
There are 1000ways to remove scalping, the problem is that it makes too much money for everyone including the artist.
@@d716agq This is why someone in the industry needs to set up a competitor that competes on "ethics," and then everyone bullies their favorite artist into using them.
There should be a law that says tickets can't be sold for more than they were bought for.
@@dannydaw59 I feel like lawmakers simply just aren't the age of some of these people who are getting scalped to understand the situation
So like airline tickets?
meanwhile rammstein does 80 euro basic tickets and 150 euro top area tickets
It's almost like they're not a top tier celebrity.
@@spacetoast7783 they got the numbers of followers, they just don't get exposed like other celebrities coz they show it all on stage and some music videos
The last few events I tried that was done by ticketmaster, They forced you to buy two tickets, then charged enough fees to double the price of one ticket, including a fee PER TICKET which they forced you to buy two.
Counterpoint, non Ticketmaster tickets are comically cheaper
Excuse me is this a late night PolyMatter???? What???
As much as I want to blame The Man and believe that artists always have their own best interests at heart, I've worked in the industry long enough to know that the artist is sometimes (a lot of the time) the last person to understand the best way to do business. The people complaining about how "touring is so expensive" also happen to be the same people insisting on touring with an immense amount of expensive equipment, and hiring 50% more people than they actually need to get the job done. Then they insist on multiple hotel rooms every night, an extensive selection of food and drink (and sometimes specialty items) in the green room, and a heroic effort by anyone involved with promoting the show. A lot of the time these artists want to maintain the image of a Touring Musician but at the expense of, y'know, actually making any money on tour.
Actually it is ticketmaster, and Live Nation which are the same company. There's no denying that.
But I do realize the artists have it in their power to change things. But not as much as you might think. They are playing large venues which have way more power overall, and a lot of artists are willing to sell out
Putting a product at a deflated value to inflate the value is common is the Bay Area housing market. A seller may put the home at a low value to get more interested in a betting war. The betting war makes the prices way higher.
There needs to be more regulation of the practice to avoid price inflation.
Watching this at 1.5x because his voice is so slow 😅
What you got goin on in your life that’s so important that you can’t relax and watch this fantastic video boi
That's a subconscious thing for me. I had slow the video and see. Yeah, it's really slow. 😂
@@sam-rs8wg why are you getting so pressed over this lmao. I watch all yt videos at 1.5x otherwise I'd get bored by how slow they all speak
TikTok is affecting our attention span
There is a more friendly approach to that. And that’s not saying anything. And enjoying the free. High quality content
Why bring Romania into this?
What if we had scheduled concerts with advance tickets, then all the non-rich people can have an app which at any time would send them a notification saying there is going to be a surprise concert in an hour (us non-rich people who really look up to the artist would be willing to drop everything to go see the artist (I would believe at much higher rates than higher income people)) which would therefore solve the outpricing problem. The only somewhat difficult thing that I see that would need to happen to make this possible is for all people who would know in advance about the time of the surprise show to sign extensively enforced nondisclosure agreements.
Twenty years ago, scalpers had to get up early, get in line to buy tickets with everyone else. They had to phisically go at the stadium the night of the show to try and sell them manually to random people. Now, with botting, they can buy entire rows in seconds and sell these tickets for a ridiculous amount. I woudn't be surprised this allow TM to cash multiple times on the same ticket, so why not just make it a build-in function instead of trying to fight against it? This system has been designed in bad faith, and I don't think fans are in the wrong for calling a spade, a spade.
So basically we need bigger venues
Or make the artist perform more shows.