Why I still can't tell the time in Dutch
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- Опубликовано: 25 апр 2021
- If you are struggling to tell the time in Dutch then you're not the only one. I've been struggling with the time for the whole two years I've been speaking Dutch and still can't respond in a normal amount of time when it comes to making plans and booking appointments...welcome to the club. Hopefully, this video helps you out or helps me! Check the links below for more time telling videos
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As a Dutch man I never got the hang of PM and AM, every time I have to use google to find out what the time is in the USA.
Me neither
@Sander Jansen Simpel...
AM (Ante meridiem: Before noon
) is 's nachts en 's ochtends.
PM (Post meridiem: After noon) is 's middags en 's avonds.
There you go! 😉
Stokpaardje (stickhorsie) ;) A becomes before P so a new day starts with an Am and changes halfways to end in Pm.
The only thing that confuses me about AM and PM is that 12 AM and 12 PM are the wrong way around.
@@bonneharkema2458 Don't you mean "ezelsbruggetje"? A "stokpaardje" is a subject someone loves and keeps bringing up.
In the UK they also say half past four as half four, my dutch brain instantly goes into error because of that
The funny twist is that if the British say half four and take the hours difference in mind and say "so it's half five in the Netherlands ' it adds up. The Dutch will answer yes it's 'half vijf'.😊
No, ‘half past four’ betekent ‘half na vier’, dus half vijf. Haha, snap je het nog?
@@linkvos8151 ja dat is net de twist, dat de Engelse toch de goede Nederlandse tijd zegt zonder het te weten. Snap jij hét nog. (The hour difference is key). 😆
@@prutteltje1300 Hahaha, heel verwarrend vind ik het. Toch zeggen de Engelsen het wel goed.
@@AdderFTW888 4de uur is bereikt als je 12de uur als 0 uur beschouwd dus half vijf is in het vijfde uur
Ochtend to me as a native Dutch speaker feels foggy, cold, and quite dewy. I associate it with around 4am to 7am. Morgen feels nicer, like 8 am to 11 am . Maybe it’s me, but certain Dutch words evoke particular feelings rather than something explainable or tangible.
2nd that ... ochtend is getting out of bed .. brrr cold ..... especially during winter times.. morning starts when at the dinner table, getting ready to leave the house... just had a good 'kopje or as we say in belgium 'bakske' koffie/thee' .. i'm warmed up now, ready for the day !!!
@@BoGy1980 Ja precies! K’hou van Vlaams. Bakske koffie klinkt lekkerder dan een koppie :p
I would associate "ochtend' more with morning dew, and 'morgen' more with the rising sun as well, but do not attach a differnt time to them. It's more that when its a foggy cold morning I'm more inclined to refer to it as 'ochtend' and when its a clear warm morning I'm more inclined to refer to it as 'morgen'
@@tahirrizwan6759 Ik heb ook liever een mok dan een kopje.
@@tahirrizwan6759 In noord brabant zeggen we dat ook. Lekker bakske hedde gezet!
If it makes you feel any better.... every Dutch person struggles with learning the time as a child. It takes practise and we've had most of our lives to practise it. You just started learning it as an adult.
Believe me, as a kid I used to say things like "Half uur over kwart over 5 / 17:45".
It took me a while to get rid of that habit.
I didn't.
Yeah i learned it when i was 5 and 6
As a Dutch Adult for more than 30 years I still struggle with it. English Time and Numbers are more logical.
That is not because it's hard to learn, it's because you are a kid and learning new things. Everything is hard cause it is all new to you. No one in class had a hard time picking up the time cause this is the system we use, we learn it as a kid, it's not making it more complex for us to learn it cause we have no other reference. Our struggle to learn the time as a kid isn't different then any other kids in the world learning reading their time system I reckon.
I myself, and many with me struggle with AM and PM stuff cause we didn't learn that, we have a 24 hour clock instead of Am and PM. Yet had I learned that as a kid it would be easy and hour 24 hour system would be weird and a struggle.
The only reason I struggled with the 24 hour clock system (reading digital clocks) was because when we learned it at school, I was sick that day so I didn't understand you had to withdraw 12 from it when it was going 13:00 and up.
You forgot the most important time when you working, "Tussen de middag".
This means basically lunchtime, usually between 12:00hr and 13:00hr
Of "bij de noen", although slightly archaic.
@@HiddenKenshin Die heb ik nog nooit gehoord! Waar wordt het gebruikt?
@@jojannekevisscher9923 oudere generaties in Limburg, BE, althans, al hoorde ik het de nineties als kind ook wel eens op de Nederlandse openbare omroep :) achternoen is namiddag, bvb. Vergelijkbaar met het Engelse "noon" :) TAAL IS COOL 😎
@@jojannekevisscher9923 Hier in Limburg, België :) Ik denk dat het heel Vlaanderen gebruikt werd, maar jullie hebben Friezen, wij hebben West-Vlaamingen :D Regio kan erg verschillen.
Vooral oudere generaties gebruiken het, soms ook wel eens te lezen in een oude print van Suske & Wiske of Jommeke of een oude aflevering van Samson & Gert. Dat zijn schatten van archaïsch Vlaams taalgebruik :)
Het leek me dat "noen" een oud Germaans of zelfs proto Germaans woord was, met verwanten in oud Noors, maar het is in feite iets Latijns: Noen komt van het Latijnse "none" wat stond voor de negende uur van de dag. Voor een gemiddelde Middeleeuwer (vanwaar 'ie ook is!) startte een dag om 6u en volgden daarop drie dagdelen van 9u elk. Het eerste dagdeel is om 15u afgerond en dan volgde een maaltijd (vaak ook gebedstijd).
Gek genoeg is "de noen" reeds jaar en dag "15u", maar later herschreven de vaak Kerkelijke wetten het schema, naarmate we evolueerden naar andere dagritmes. Voor mijn grootouders en vele oudere generaties was "noen" echter 12u, alles ervoor "voor de noen" en alles erna "achternoen" :) Much like "afternoon" :D
@@jojannekevisscher9923 het noenmaal werd ook gebruikt voor het middagmaal.
For me as a native Dutch speaker, ochtend is from 06:00 to 12:00, middag from 12:00 to 18:00, avond from 18:00 to midnight and nacht from midnight to 06:00. But there's definitely people who say 'nighttime' is when they sleep, so maybe from 10:00pm to 07:00am. Also, you'll often read in news articles something like 'het ongeluk gebeurde in de vroege uurtjes van zondagochtend' which could mean 04:00am, which actually is in the middle of the night. Damn we have a complicated language :')
I think usually when you'd make plans with someone and they say 'oke, ik kom vanmiddag/vanavond langs', I think it's sort of implied (don't ask me why though) that for the middag, you'll contact each other around noon to further confirm the exact time (for instance texting them saying 'zal ik rond twee uur naar je toe komen?'). And I think with 'we spreken vanavond af', it's usually implied that you'll meet some time after dinner (which usually takes place between 6 and 7 pm) plus getting ready for whatever it is you'll do. If it's a night out, you'd probably meet around 9, if you're going to their house for drinks and a movie, maybe 8.
It's funny because now that you've mentioned it, I definitely do this a lot with friends and never really noticed that it's kinda weird. We just go 'Laten we gezellig een drankje doen vanavond, leuk! Nou dan zie ik je vanavond!' And people will just show up sometime between 8 and 9 :p
Dankjewel ik ik dacht dat ik de enige was. Ik iriteer me hieraan.
Zo zie ik het
Vroeg in de ochtend: 6:00 - 8:00
Midden in de ochtend: 8:00 - 10:00
Laat in de ochtend: 10:00- 12:00
om 12 uur begint de middag
Vroeg in de middag : 12:00 - 14:00
Midden in de middag: 14:00 - 16:00
Laat in de middag: 16:00 - 18:00
Om 18H begint de avond
Vroeg in de avond: 18:00 - 20:00
Midden avond: 20:00 - 22:00
Laat in de avond: 22:00 - 00:00
Om 12 begint de nacht
Vroeg in de nacht: 00:00 - 2:00
Midden nacht: 2:00 - 04:00
Laat in de nacht: 4:00 - 6:00
En de ochtend begint om 6 uur.
Op deze manier maak ik afspraken
@@amosamwig8394 Helemaal mee eens. Dus wij zouden elkaar qua tijd niet mislopen, haha.
@@amosamwig8394 Irriteren is geen wederkerig werkwoord. Het irriteert je, of je ergert je eraan. Ergeren is wel wederkerig. Het is dus 'zich ergeren'.
@@donarnoldus7884 in de youtube comments maakt dat mij niezoveel uit ;) maar danku
Vir n Afrikaaner klink dit heel normaal!
You're pretty accurate about Belgium, we say 20 min before or after but we never say 25 before or after, that would be 5 min before or after half.
And the Dutch take their time seriously. If you say: 'Good evening!' but it's only 17:59h, people WILL correct you.
xD
This is most certainly true, I love correcting people on that, and I don’t even get hated for it.
I'm a package delivery guy for my job, and after 11:00 I will generally check my watch as I say "Goede...morgen!" or "Goede *check* middag!" Very often the customer will check his watch too and remark on the time. "Huh, it's already noon?!" Or "Yes, it's still morning."
I deliberately say "Good evening" when it's just before 18:00h and when I get someone correcting me (which is invariably the case), I explain that the afternoon is almost over, so there is little point in wishing them a good afternoon anymore and instead I like to already wish for them to have the most agreeable evening. And then everybody's happy.
It works the other way around. I struggle with time in English as a Dutch speaker.
Especially when they say 'half four', which means half 5 to me... It took me a long time to actually realize that this was happening. Always get people to write it down in full if you're uncertain: 12:34 is understandable to most people, vier over half een maybe not. Then again, I feel it's not as bad as the french are with their counting in twenties.
@@wathiant 80 is even worse
“Let’s meet in the middag”.
“Ok, when”?
“About tea-time?”
“See you then!”
Love the non-vagaries of inprecise language
Swedes have perfected this trust me, we have the worst phrase on Earth, Ses i bitti, see you early... or see you in small piece of time. But even though it might seem like it means see you soon, if one looks at the words meanings literally, however it is used to mean see ya tomorrow, as it was used more commonly as ses i morgon bitti, meaning see you tomorrow morning, however people don't really care to think that the Early hours exists so they say the phrase and they show up in the afternoon... Because who cares about how specific a meaning a word has... The phrase would be perfectly good if people used it correctly...
And yet the Dutch are famous for being spot on time always 🤪
Yup, waarom maken we het zo moeilijk he? Leuk dat je mijn video hebt gedeeld! 😍
We do have ‘namiddag’ (afternoon), for me personally middag feels like 11:30-13-30 and afternoon is 13:30-17:30/18:00 after that it’s avond
In Belgium we do use ‘kwart na’ instead of ‘kwart over’ too
Hi Casey, great video once again.
You mentioned how the Dutch use 24-hour time. Actually, we only do that on paper, in time tables, on calendars and such. In the spoken language, however, we will usually use 12-hour time, and add "in de morgen, middag, avond of nacht" or some equivalent as appropriate.
Additionally, as a result of seeing so many English spoken movies, films and shows on TV, RUclips and Netflix, the modern Dutch are getting quite flexible. When we're talking to non-Dutch people, some of us will gladly use 24-hour time in conversation, just to prevent confusion. So, if I want to make an appointment to see you tomorrow at 7:30 PM, I might say "Ik zie je morgen om 19 uur 30", which is short and to the point. Not all of us, yet (actually only just a few), but we're getting there.
As for telling time in Dutch, yeah, it's like Zoë Van den broek says: we learn it from a young age, we grow into it. So it's no miracle that foreigners have a harder time getting used to it. Eventually, if you do it often enough, it will get easier. Remember this joke: a man carrying a violin case holds up a kid in the street and asks "young man, can you tell me how I get to the opera house?", to which the kid answers "practice, practice, practice, sir!"
Yea, night times are weird in Dutch. Typically, 2am is still part of the Wednesday if you haven't slept yet, but it's part of the Thursday if you wake up at that time.
To avoid confusion, most people use "de nacht van woensdag op donderdag".
To add some confusion when it comes to "middag": if old people say "rond de middag" they mean "around noon", not "somewhere during the afternoon". This even confuses a lot of (younger) Dutch people.
They thankfully will often say 'rond het middaguur (12:00)' though :D
And for further confusion there is "tussen de middag" (in between midday) which seems to be from 12.00 to 13.00 when kids get time from school to return home for lunch.
@@BlacksmithTWD In VL "tussen de middag" is just "middag", the period after before becoming evening is "namiddag".
@@nekture VL staat voor vlaams limburg?
@@BlacksmithTWD Ik bedoel gewoon Vlaanderen. Wat ik hier lees hoe jullie het doen in Nederland is mij volledig vreemd. Geen voor- of namiddag te bespeuren.
Sometimes I say “het is kwart over half 3. Just to mess with people when they ask the time at 2:45. Lol.
20 voor half 3 is ook een leuke :D
Nederlands be like Kwart voor tien over half 12... Zeg gewoon 11 uur 25!
When we just moved here I missed many appointments. When ever I was supposed to be there at "half vier" I would show up at 4:30. Mess it up often enough and you will learn the hard way like I did.
Just remember all the dutch kids have to learn it the other way around, which is basically just as difficult. If all the kids can do it, I believe you can do it too!
I think that in Dutch time telling the day is actually divided in 48 parts rather than 24. In the language the halfs are equal to the whole hours and are 'treated' the same by the minutes. So in English 'half past' relates to the hour like the quarters and minutes relate to the whole hour, while in Dutch the quarter and the minutes relate to both the whole hours and the half hours in the same way. Only the 'kwart voor half 3' and 'kwart over half 3' have been skipped in favour of the whole hour because they are the same times, and otherwise it would get confusing :) Remeber it's not half to 3 as in half past 2, it is/would translate as half 3. It's the false equivalence that makes the confusion.
Surprised you didn't mention 'tussen de middag', which is between the morning and afternoon and often used for lunch break. The name makes no sense because it translates as 'between the afternoon' allthough middag would literally translate as mid day. Nacht and night are not equivalent either. In Dutch 'nacht' is really reserved for the dark part, when the people are asleep. Maybe that makes the evening and therefore also the afternoon longer.
I have lived here for 55 years. I always confirm any appointment using the 24 hour clock. I just do it automatically. The strangest thing I found was saying goodbye after midnight. This purely depends on the situation. Leaving a party or other social gathering I would say 'Goede Avond' not 'Goede Nacht'.
'Goede Nacht' and 'Welterusten' are reserved for intimate friends and partners. "Goede Nacht' means you are retiring and going to bed.
To make the Dutch sound more natural, use the past tense less and opt for “wat heb je vanmorgen gedaan” instead of “wat deed je vanmorgen”. Goes for the other examples as well.
I think it's called the 'present perfect' in english
@@vizuz It is, but the rules about the time you use it for vary. For example: "Ik speel hockey sinds ik vijf ben" would be "I have played hockey since I was five". So it sure is something to look at.
Easy:
1 focus on whole and half hours.
2 At the quarters round up (+15 or +45) or down (-15 or -45)
In NL I'd say voormiddag (vooraan in de middag) is between 12 and 15. Namiddag is then from around 15 to 18.
In Belgium voormiddag is indeed from around 9 to 12 and the namiddag is from 12 to 15 or so.
But in NL I'd say the afternoon is just divided into 2 subparts.
Although I have lived in UK all my life my first language was Dutch with some English (Dutch father/British mother spoke mainly Dutch to each other), and this video makes me realise how instinctive the two ways of telling the time are to me, and how difficult it would be for me to explain.
I am a native Dutch speaker from Belgium.
15:30
"Vijftien uur dertig" of "half vier"
15:20
"Vijftien uur twintig" of "twintig over drie" of "tien voor half vier"
15:40
"Vijftien uur veertig" of "twintig voor vier" of "tien over half vier"
Furthermore, in Flanders, we say NA instead of OVER :D
Here in Brabant (NL) we use that as well. I think this is perhaps due to the introduction of the digital clocks, some decades ago?
I am pretty sure there have been lots of Dutch who arrived an hour early on an in English arranged appointment at half 9 (or any other half).
and Germans! i have actually experienced this a few times!
Not really because when making appointments with for example doctors, dentists and other formal companies they will say 4.30 and not half four.
When going into more detail when talking about time, there’s one big difference. In Dutch we split the analog clock in half horizontally. In English the analog clock is split vertically. So in Dutch, 13:26 means 4 voor half 2. However in English it would be 26 past 1.
In English only the exact half hours count, otherwise it’s past the hour before or “to” the next hour. In Dutch the half hours are just as important as the hours themselves. So 13:40 means it’s 10 minutes past (over) the half 2 time. 13:50 however is closer to the full hour. Which makes it 10 voor (before, or “to”) 2. You see what I meant with dividing the analog clock horizontally and half hours in-between being just as important as the full hours?
So basically the only difference is in the bottom half of the analog clock. Otherwise it’s exactly the same.
In Nederland kan je toch ook gewoon zeggen 20 minuten na twaalf i.p.v. 10 voor half een.
I grew up using '20 over 2' or 20 minutes past two instead of 10 minutes to half three. Same goes for '20 voor 5' or 20 to 5. It feels easier to use than the sometime for the half of the hour...
@@Tempusolden I tend to use either, depending on the context. If I just need to convey a rough idea of the time, I will use the "10 voor half 6" (10 before half 6, i.e. 5:20, which my brain easily translates to "it's approaching half till 6"). But if I want to convey the exact time, I fall back on the "minutes after hour" format. So "34 over 8" for "34 past 8, e.g. 8:34"
@@maktiki Gek genoeg zeggen we (in het noorden) vijf over - tien over - kwart over - twintig over - vijf voor half.... Waarom weet ik ook niet
@@Tempusolden You have got yourself a Flemish habit😄 Lord, how alien it felt, and still feels, reading "10 voor half 6" in schoolbooks
Again super informative, thank you!!
This was my most favorite actually. When I first learned Dutch this was for me the easiest.. but some of my friends in class really got super confused.
For me, 'begin van de middag' would be from 12:00 to 14:00 and 'einde van de middag' would be from around 16:00 to 18:00.
Now I see the timetable and it says exactly the same :)
When we say "Drie (3) uur 's nachts/vannacht" contect determines wether that's last night or the upcoming night. 's nachts can, given the context, also refer to any other night. Our days are from 00:00:00 to 23:59:59 using 24 hour time is often sufficient.
Ochtend = 06:00 to 12:00
Middag = 12:00 to 18:00
Avond = 18:00 to 00:00
Nacht =00:00 to 06:00
Though, depending on who you ask,
Ochtend can stard at 04:00 or 05:00
Namiddag can start at 15:00 or 16:00 or doesn't exist.
Avond can end at 22:00
The most confusing part about the 24 hour system is that it's actually mostly/only used in written form. When you speak about the time for example 18:00 is not "achttien uur" (eightteen o'clock), but "zes uur 's avonds" (six o'clock in the evening). So when you tell the time between 13:00 and 23:59 out loud you'll have to extract 12 hours. 0:00 becomes twelve o'clock again and 0:30 becomes "half één" (half one, meaning half past twelve).
It is fun to see how confusing telling time is in Dutch. I am Dutch and married to a Chilean and actually we are trilingual at home. So together with are kids we have our own way of talking in private, we say sentences that contain Spanish, Dutch and english al in one. To my kids I speak in Dutch like 80 % of the time and when I say ‘10 over half 8’ they beg me to say it in spanish because it is too confusing to them!
Keep up with the nice videos, I always enjoy watching them, by the way your Dutch is really good!
Italian, Dutch and English here. We confuse waiters to no end and for time we go with military time: 19:40 ;) We've had too many missed meetings...
I always thought that afternoon was the same as "middag". Because I just assumed it meant after noon.
I live in Friesland and I don’t think I ever hear people say “10 voor half 5”.. We (or at least I) would say “20 over 4”. If it’s 16:25, I do say “5 voor half 5”
Never heared this with the family in Fryslân, which is the only part of the world which mathers the most... Yet never paid attention to it either....
I gruw up in Fryslan, and what you say is new to me.
@@DouweBuruma regional differences I guess.... My family uses the Saxon crazy G, just like people do in Hollandic. Yet the rest uses the Hard Frisian G - which the people who speak Anglo Saxon english also do btw. Maybe some Frisians use 20 to 6 in Frisian and in result also in Dutch..... Its possible....
better said is clear -regional differences
Drenthe here and we say 20 over 4 as well. Almost never do I hear someone say 10 voor half 5. Regional difference I think
In Belgium we say the minites past or to like in English, But we still say half five instead of half past four. But " 's midachs" is in Belgium between 12 and 13, after 13 we say "namiddag".
hello I'm 44 years old and living in Nederland all my life
and when I see you talk about Dutch I realise how difficult my native language realy is
Don't rely too much on the Van Dale, it has been changed so much for no apparent reason it's just confusing for us as well (trips the judges of the national 'dictee' even) 🤣 Also, 'Tien voor half elf' and 'twintig over tien' are both perfectly fine if you have problems with those half hours 😉
Never heard anyone ever say "twintig over tien" but I have heard people used the english construct by saying "tien uur twintig"
@@eldin0074 my boyfriend is from Friesland and says this. I never heard anyone say that either ever before, and it still confuses me every time (I'm from Noord-Brabant) and my brain goes in error mode. Twintig voor 10, 20 over 5. Wait what?! :')
I can easily understand the time in Dutch - but one can simply say 3 uur 33, for example, which is easier! But the nature related term land cannot be misused in names - only I reflect nature related terms etc!
For example, kwart voor half 3 literally means that it’s a quarter before half 3 aka 2:30 in Dutch, and, when one hears half 3 or half any other hours, all they have to do is substract 1 hour and add 30 minutes, and then if it’s kwart VOOR half 3 / 2:30 aka before it means that it is 2:15 and if it’s kwart OVER half 3 it means it is 2:45) but, one can simply say 3 uur 15 etc instead, which is how many say it nowadays!
The misused big terms boyfriend and mar (in Marieke) must be edited out / changed, as love related terms and big / nature terms etc cannot be misused in names / comments etc by others - mar means sea in Spanish (nature related term) and the words like bf / friend / lover etc only reflect my pure protectors aka the alphas, and love related terms only reflect me the only lovable being, while love and bfs only exist for me, and humn ‘reIationships’ and all other wrong things are to be b4nned in the NW, and all dudes should be loyal to me!
For me, 'vanochtend' is what you plan and 'vanmorgen' is what you experiance. De vergadering is vanochtend. Ik had hoofdpijn vanmorgen.
You're right, in Belgium we usually opt for a simpler way, based on every half hour. "Tien voor half elf" (ten minutes before 10:30), we would call "twintig na tien" (twenty past ten).
Morgen and Ochtend are interchangable. It depends on what words are around it, and you pick whatever makes the sentence flow better.
Wat deed je vanochtend or wat deed je vanmorgen mean exactly the same.
Sometimes you'd pick Ochtend over Morgen to avoid confusion. It's the thing where your brain fills in information instead of just listening/reading it when available.
So when you ask some one what they did this morning, they'll start telling you about what they're planning to do tomorrow. Because all they picked up was "doen" en "morgen".
It's somewhere on the levels of "je" en "jij". You'll use je more, even though jij can go everywhere je goes. But you'll sort of save the Jij for when you really need to point out some one specific or when the words around je would sort of drown out the je and make the sentence not flow.
As for the times; yes, it's messy and weird.
Tien over half zes is a mouthful when english speakers would just go five-forty. But then in english you also have weird ways of saying it. Like Half past seven becomes "Half eight". In dutch, we do this too and for us it sounds absolutely fine, but if you're used to hearing half-past-whatever, suddenly hearing "half eight" makes you think you heard it wrong and it's half-past-eight.
Anyway :P
Good luck getting a grasp on this kind of dutch nonsense. Your pronunciation is quite good for a non-native speaker. :)
Honestly, I think the first part about vanmorgen and vanochtend is kind of in your head😅 (also middag is just 12:00 to 18:00 so every time inside that timeframe you’d just put ‘s middags in front of it)
Edit: I thought to myself this can't be right what your saying with regards to afternoon and that it doesn't include the time between 12 and 3 so i just looked it up.
"afternoon | ɑːftəˈnuːn |
noun
the time from noon or lunchtime to evening"
It isn't necessarily an english thing as much as it is an Australian thing. Afternoon in England also just means from twelve to six. Just down under they use it from three to six.
You are not alone. As Dutch person I've learned so much from this video.
guess how that happened ... first law of us ozzies: let's extend midday break and shorten afternoon... so we have to work less for the queen... after all she's still in her castle half the world between us....
Im 15 and completely dutch- and I still cant tell the time without making mistakes.
Hi I really love your video’s!!!!
Well Casey, even Westflemings got tired of the 'half' time, we simply refer to half times like 'drie uur dertig'. Thereby of course confusing all other Dutch speakers ☺
because that sounds like a kid just learning to read a digital clock #nooffence
Im sorry but as a dutchie this is something we say and is not confusing at all.
Vlaams Brabander hier, wij zeggen 4 en een half, ipv half vijf. Dus we doen het omgekeerder van de rest. Maar tegenwoordig is het idd geen probleem meer om de minuten uit te spreken alsof je een digitale klok leest.
But besides morgen and ochtend both meaning morning and morgen also meaning tomorrow. We have this funny thing that’s morgenochtend, which is tomorrow morning. Just to spice things up you know 😂
You can wake me anytime for your videos ! (wouldn't like it, but you can 😪 )
dutch person here:
regarding Ochtend vs Morgen, here is how I treat them:
- when the time is the most important detail, use Ochtend (like "ik heb dat werk al gedaan in de ochtend"; you wanted to emphasize that you already did the work specifically in the morning)
- when the act is the most important detail, use Morgen (so like, "ik heb toch lekker ontbeten vanmorgen". the important part is how good the food was and the time plays just a minor backrole here)
again, that is how I specifically treat them, but when you start to analyze how others use it, you will find that they unintentionally follow at least a very similar pattern. Hope this helps you a bit.
next up regarding your 2 o'clock at night example:
this one is tricky. generally, people devide the day purely based on when they go to sleep. say you go to sleep at 11 o'clock in the evening on wednesday, then the 2 o'clock at night belongs to the thursday. when one goes to sleep at 3 o'clock in the night from wednesday to thursday, that 2 o'clock belongs to wednesday. But I'd say, for anything official, just take whatever the VanDale says.
lastly regarding the half times.
my best advice is just "goodluck". it's best to make a cheat sheet and just remember that. like when you hear "10 over", it is always [last hour] ten or [last hour] 40. and when you hear "7 voor", it's always [last hour] 23, or [last hour] 53. when you hear "half", always subtract 1 from the hour mentioned. really it's just about 'ezelsbruggetjes' and memory for non-dutch people. you could keep doing math, but that just slows down conversations, which no dutch person likes.
I'm from Belgium. I remember learning about "tien voor half zes" in elementary. I know Belgium is known for being a complex country but not without it's reasons, but the one thing I always struggled with is telling the time in ABN. However nobody even talks like that, and it's completely pointless!
I use tien voor half. Just the normal way to say it. (Randstad)
I too feel like in Belgium we learn it this way (the official dutch way, ABN) in school, but then never ever use it in real life. I think we all just say 20 after or 20 before.
I'm from the Netherlands, and I completely agree. It feels old fashioned.
@HQ ik en vele anderen
@HQ dank je en goed voor vele anderen..
I think you confuse Middag with Midday, they are not the same, even though google says they are the same. Middag is generally used as Afternoon
Dutchie here:
You shouldn't make it so difficult by trying to match the words with precise times, since they are only meant to be descriptive (otherwise we would have just mentioned a specific time). A better way to think of it is:
Morgen/'s morgens - any time between getting out of bed and lunch
Tussen de middag - during lunchtime
Middag/'s middags - any time between lunch and diner
Avond/'s avonds - any time between diner and going to bed
Regarding the difference between ochtend and morgen, I don't think there is a strict definition as to when to use which, but ochtend feels like you always mean early in the morgen. Ochtend is often used in relation to the period between waking up and breakfast/going to work, although not exclusively
One remark about 24 hour notation, this is only used in writing. In speech we use just the 12 hours.
Only when confusion can occur we add “in de morgen”, “in de avond”
In addition to that, it is most of the time: context
Being from Flanders, I never ever say "tien over half vijf", that's just super impractical. We just say "twintig voor zes".
My countrymen from the coast even drop that and just say "vijf uur veertig".
I, in het mooie oosten, also say "vijf uur veertig" because it is easily translatable to virtual time 5:40 or the time on the clock⏰ and also to calculate with if you have to walk 13 mimutes and need to be there at 8:55 or whatever youknow. Most practical :)
actually 17.40 is 10 over half 6, 10 over half 5 is 16.40
Och, Casey... wat moet jij blij zijn geen radiouitzendingen van DJ-duo Bart van Leeuwen en Erik de Zwart ("Bart & de Zwart") in de jaren tachtig te hebben gehoord!
"Jaaah, en daarmee staat de klok alweer op tien over kwart voor half drie en is het de hoogste tijd voor..."
I am American and I was student in Belgium for 4 years. I am old enough to have learned and used clocks and watches with hands. That made it much easier for me to visualize the time, such 10 minutes before or after the half hour. I can see where using digital clocks and watches, that could be more confusing. I already knew the clock hands, so I bought a digital watch for my time in Belgium, so I could get used to the 24 hour time.
Allereerst wil ik zeggen dat ik altijd met interesse naar jouw filmpjes kijk. Het geeft een frisse blik op onze taal. Ik denk dat wij ook een 12-uurs klok gebruiken. In ieder geval in spreektaal. Ik zeg nooit dat ik om 14 uur ergens zal zijn, maar om 2 uur 's middags.
I never realized how completely messed up Dutch can be :)
Btw; did you ever considered setting up a Patreon account?
Its not messed up, Its noice
Makes it authentic
Before the OV-Chipkaart arrived - Dutch Railways (NS / Nederlandse Spoorwegen) used to sell dated tickets that were valid from 04.00 to 04.00 the next day, because people with round trip tickets would go somewhere and spend the evening there, and still needed to return home.
In real life, many people roughly experience up til 03.00 as very late at night, and from 04.00 as very early morning.
For me its “2 uur ‘snachts” if you haven’t gone to sleep yet and its “2 uur ‘sochtends” if you have to wake up really early. But thats just me personally hahah
Its also very interesting to learn how non-native speakers experience our language.
The 6 hr division you reference is linked to the logic of the quarter time division overlapping the half/full division.
It is linked to the motion or action the person is in. Morning is after you slept, evening night is before you sleep.
To speed up the process voor "tien over half" etc., try picturing an analog clock/watch instead of digital time. That makes it easy to visualize what the words are describing. So for "tien over half vier" you're seeing the big hand is slightly past the halfway mark. If it's "tien voor half vier" you see that it's slightly ahead of the halfway mark on the other side. I think that's probably where the whole idea of saying time like that came from.
I'm native a dutch speaker from Belgium. I would say ochtend, middag, avond and nacht are defined by the time people generally eat. Ochtend and voormiddag are quite similar. Ochtend is from when people wake up until lunch or around 12 am but you could also refer to that period with voormiddag. Voormiddag can mean everything before middag but I generally use it to say late ochtend. Then middag is the period when people generally eat. So 12 am to around 2 pm. Namiddag would be from 2 pm to around 6 - 7 pm and then avond would be from 7 till 12 pm. Nacht is between 12 pm and wake up time.
In Flanders we put the focus on the hour and say '20 na 10' (not 'over') instead of '10 voor half elf'. Sections of the day are in order Morgen, Voormiddag, Namiddag, Vroege avond, Laatavond, Nacht. When referring to a time at night it's counted as part of the previous day 'Woensdag nacht 2 uur' = Thursday 02:00 AM.
Noo, 2021-04-30 02:00 belongs to a Friday. It's never part of today, the 29th. The day always starts at midnight.
It helps that swedish are so similar to dutch; Ochtend is cognate with swedish "ottan". It means the earliest part of the morning, often when it's still dark.
Belgian here,
- Van Dale is indeed our dictionary (For The Netherlands and Flemish (Flemish are the Dutch part of Belgian)), it is reliable, so no worries.
- I mostly use things such as "Ochtend" (morning), "Voormiddag" (Time before noon), "Middag" (noon), "Namiddag" (afternoon), and "Avond" (Evening) to cover more 'ground', for things where i don't know a specific hour of. Like for instance, "Ik ga deze avond de vuilniszakken buiten zetten" (I'm going to take out the garbage bags this evening), i can do this at 18.00 (6pm) or even 21.00 (9pm). If i say "Ik ga de vuilniszakken om 21u buiten zetten" (I'm going to take out the garbage bags at 9pm), i mean that hour.
- We can say things like "Tien voor half drie" (2:20), but we prefer just saying the numbers too, as we are lazy.
- When we say the things like "Tien voor half drie" (2:20), i know that it sounds like 2.20am but we mostly mean 14:20 (2:20 pm), it is just a bit of common sense used there, if we say "We spreken af om Tien voor half drie" (We'll meet up at 2:20) We mean 14:20 (2:20pm) and not 2 in the morning (2am).
If i can help in any way, feel free to contact me at 'TheOfficialJitseW@gmail.com'
Goodluck further in your Journey of the Dutch language
The tip from an earlier commenter is the key: just visualise the time on an analog clock.
The time relates to the nearest north or south mark, i.e. the "full hour" and "half hour" mark, where the full trumps the half for the 2 points that are exactly midway between the two (.15 & .45).
Your explanation of half(way to) five is spot on!
Personally, for me, ochtend = 6-12,
tussen de middag = 12-13.30 (lunchtime should be a separate time between morning and afternoon),
middag = 13.30-18,
(I'm inclined to insert dinnertime here, 18-19, but that doesn't fit your scheme),
avond = 18-23 (or 24 for a really late evening),
nacht = at least 24-6, but 23-8 comes closer in my parlance, used for the time for sleep.
But people who get up at 5 probably consider that morning starts at 5, not 6 o'clock.
0:00-06:00 nacht
06:00-12:00 ochtend
12:00-18:00 middag
18:00-24:00 avond
Morgen: Het moment waarop je wakker wordt en aan de dag begint, dus meestal in nacht of de ochtend
Tussen de middag: periode van tijd rond 12:00, ongeveer van 11:30-13:30, meestal aangegeven vanwege de lunch (wat weer middageten wordt genoemd)
Namiddag: ongeveer vanaf 16:30 tot 18:00, vaak gezien als de tijd na werk maar voor het diner, oftewel avondeten.
I am Dutch from birth, lived here all my life, but the way you explain our time telling even got me confused. 🤣
Your Dutch pronounciation is spot on.
Same with AM - PM, Pounds, inch, Miles, ...
Your Dutch is verry verry good, there are some people who are born in Belgium that can't speak as good as you.
Belgian here, we defo use this type of timetelling, maybe not every region quite like this, but we do have timestamps starting at the half hour etc
I remember the days when my mom taught my sister to read the time, what a battle, that half hour before just got her confused.
I have had debates with other Dutch people about the exact meaning of "morgen" myself... And I was born here lol. The confusion comes from the fact that morgen is a very old term that originated many centuries ago, it dates back to a time in history when the vast majority of people were farmers. Originally "morgen" referred to the amount of land (2 - 3 acres) you could plow in one morning with a pair of oxen. For them, this was something almost everyone did on a very regular basis and that took them all the same amount of time to do. As society shifted away from agriculture and practical timekeeping through the centuries the definition of morgen changed too. Some of these different uses of morgen have survived into the present day as archaisms; These are phrases and words that made obvious and (usually) literal sense at some point in some older version of the language that now survive only as expressions with an intuitive meaning rather than a literal precise one. So to put it shortly: Some of the ways we use morgen in Dutch don't make sense and are inconsistent with other ways we use the word. Treat them as exceptions and learn them by heart I'd say.
As a Dutch native speaker for me the day is divided in 6h parts;
00:00-06:00 = nacht(night).
06:00-12:00 = morgen/ochtend (almost always interchangeable) =morning
12:00-18:00 = middag(afternoon)
18:00-00:00 = avond(evening).
I would consider all deviations from this, personal or regional deviations, they can confuse Dutch people from different regions aswell..
If people use other terms for telling the time, don't hesitate to ask for clarification, because I do too as a native Dutch speaker from the province Overijssel I often have to ask my friend from around Eindhoven what she means. For example when she is talking dinner time, she means like 7 (19:00) where dinner time for me in Overijssel is 17:00 to 17:30
This is common in many regions, because in the north of the UK, going for tea means having dinner, freaking confusing
The day starts officially at 00:00 which means the night is the next day. I know that some people do not abide by this, but this is how it officially is. This however is usually ignored in casual talks about nightlife.. so I went to the bar on Friday night (even if that was at 01:00, so technically Saturday), but remember that is only because that person hasn't slept yet.
yes when thinking ochtend it feels more like early morning, but it is not the official meaning, therefore ochtend = morning or 06:00 to 12:00.
There is the same confusing problem in English, because tonight and evening are also very often mixed or partly overlapping at least in both the UK and America.
focusing on the hour coming like half elf for 10:30, is what most people in the world do in most languages, as far as I understand it is almost only English speakers that focus on the hour in the past. (maybe English influenced languages and countries aswell)
24h system is widely used in Europe, not just The Netherlands, even in Britain they very well know how to use the 24h system even if officially they will use am and pm.
am and pm used to confuse me very much, because the time indicator doesn't start at the start of the day, but half way so 12:00 instead of 00:00, that is why for me the 24h time is soo much simpeler in some cases since a day has 24 hours instead of juggling with 2x12.
When casually talking you will not use a 24 h system nor the am or pm, but that is no different from English. since you wouldn't say I went to the supermarket for groceries at 4 pm.. you would just sayI went to the supermarket for groveries at 4, since everyone would assume it would be in the afternoon, it is no different with the 24 hour system and if you do have to clarify, you would say 4 in the afternoon (4 uur 's middags)
the 's in 's middags is norm now, but it come from older Dutch des middags which meant in de middag (in the afternoon).
I would say the only odd one which can be hard is the 10 or 5 minutes before and over half. but the rule is more simple then you realise right now
16:05 = 5 over 4
16:10 = 10 over 4 HEEL UUR
16:15 = kwart over 4
--------------------------------------------
16:20 = 10 voor half 5
16:25 = 5 voor half 5
16:30 = half 5 HALF UUR
16:35 = 5 over half 5
16:40 = 10 over half 5
------------------------------------------
16:45 = kwart voor 5
16:50 = 10 voor 5
16:55 = 5 voor 5 HEEL UUR
17:00 5 uur
see the pattern? everything between 20 and 40 in minutes will be for half and over half. technically the quarter hours are the breakpoints here
You can nowadays say 20 over 4 instead of 10 voor half 5, but only when used in casual talks, there is some interchangeability in it, you can play with it a bit, you will be understood either way, Dutch people nowadays mix them up more and more frequent. I wouldn't worry too much about it when it comes to causal talk. the official way is explained above
I really hope I could be of some help to you or to anyone trying to get her or his head around this concept of time in the Dutch language
many things in the Netherlands continue the day until after midnight, e.g. the train system counts the day until 4am and then finish your trip if you happen to be in one of the very rare trains that run around that time. I think in most cases it's less confusing, but you have to be used to this being a thing... Also usually this is made pretty clear. For e.g. day tickets this is a super useful concept, also for many other things where people just continue their day into the night...
Don't know about the Dutch, but here in Belgium (whereI live that is) "Tien voor half elf" isn't used but we say "Twintig na tien" which is twenty minutes past ten.
Many terms reflect a century ago. When people got up before it got light. So the morning was actually long, like from 4, 5 o'clock until 12:00. So then the morning is as long as the afternoon. Then also "kleine uurtjes" makes sense, because you got both "getting up early" as well as "going out until late
Funny that as a Belgian I have to learn we indeed use voormiddag to mean around 10 am which after having lived in the US for 27 years now I'm using a lot more.
So morgen is from about 6 am until 10 am when the voormiddag (just before middag (noon) starts.
We then say namiddag after noon until about 7pm when the evening (avond) starts...
Idk if you’ll see this, but once it’s past midnight, it’s a new day. It’s possible that some people might still refer to it as belonging to the day before, but if it gets to confusing you can just go “on the night from Wednesday to Thursday”.
Belgian here, Antwerp/Brabant area.
Thinking of it, I usually split the hour in sections of 20 minutes:
- 13:00 to 13:20 > "X na 1",
- 13:21 to 13:39 => "X voor/na half 2",
- 13:40 to 14:00 => "X voor 2".
When accuracy is not required, I round to the nearest 5 minutes. I round up when we have to hurry, down when I don't want to leave soon ;)
This is interesting, i grew up dutch but also in english because i spent most my time online, i could speak english at the same time i learnt to read time, and both the dutch and english version just made sense to me , with the only confusing thing being 12AM/PM, to this day i misremember if 12AM is noon or not since i remember it as early morning
I can imagine those halfs will mess you up. I've had similar trouble (actually reversed) with the English half times, whenever somebody just says "half five". I have to make a conscious effort to realize they mean "half past five" for it to make sense. So I guess going in reverse, you have to make the effort to realize that when you hear "half zes", what is actually being said is "half voor zes".
Those minutes around half can be a bit tricky, but basically it's the same rule as there is with the whole hours.
To be honest, I tend to favor both in English and Dutch to just say the whole minute thing, so "vijf uur dertig" / "five thirty" or maybe even just "vijf dertig", matching up with English exactly. I just find it much more clear and more convenient, less changes of errors ("was het nu kwart *voor* of kwart * over*?"). I also prefer digital clocks over analog clocks, and have done so all my life, I'm sure that ties into it as well.
This also makes it easier to tell the exact time of day apart, as you can just say 20:30, without having to thing if it is meant to be in the morning or in the afternoon (you can imagine I've also struggled a bit with the whole AM/PM thing in English ;)).
In Dutch we do use 24 hour time in writing and on digital clocks, but in speech we do often use 12 hour time and add the time of day to it, so 8 am would be "acht uur 's ochtends" 2 pm would be "2 uur 's middags", 8 pm would be "acht uur 's avonds", and 2 am would be "2 uur 's nachts", that's probably part of why we divide the time in rigid slots of 6 hours each.
am/pm especially gets confusing for me at 12 o clock (noon and midnight), I always need to look it up to be sure.
the half thing actually gets me as a Dutch native speaker who has learned English as a 2nd language at near native level (including frequently thinking in English) and I just really prefer it if people say/write the time as hour:minutes so 9:30 (nine thirty, negen uur dertig) because whenever I hear a half time (or see someone write it as they would say it), I always have to actively think about whether that's before or after (slightly less with "half past...", but when Brits drop the "past" but still have it implied, it gets really confusing for me), and even then I tend to trip myself up by overthinking it. For times of 13-24/00 it's fine to use those 13-24/00 numbers, or use the 12 hour time plus the time of day ((after)noon, evenig, (mid)night) but preferably not am/pm.
As a native Dutch speaker I would say that "early in the morning" would be best translated as "vroeg in de ochtend", in that way it is not interchangeable. Vroeg in de morgen seems not completely wrong, but not very likely to say.
Then you have "ochtendmens" meaning that you are a person that does not sleep in, likes the morning and probably go to bed early. You definitely do not say "morgenmens".
So technically, yes ochtend is the same as morgen, but most people will associate it with early in the morning.
In my opinion it is fine to just say the 12 hour digital time out loud. for example, if the time is 13:52 you can just say "1 uur 52" (een uur tweeënvijftig)
Never heard a better Dutch pronunciation from a native English speaker. In België zeggen we vooral goeiemorgen ;)
In dutch we seperated the day in 4 parts, morgen/ochtend 6-12. middag 12-18, avond 18-24, nacht 24-6. from waking up and going to sleep is 1 day. So when you wake up in monday 8 and go to bed at 2 on tuesday it concidered monday, but it is a little fluid.
The time on flight tickets are also sometimes complicated for Dutch. Sometimes people just miss their flight if it is a night flight.
For me all times that are not quarter, half or a full hour depend on what is important for that particular time. For instance if I need to catch a train at 10:30 and the time is 10:20, I won't say 'het is twintig over tien' I would rather day 'het is tien voor half elf' because it gives me a better picture of the time I have left to catch the train.
On the other hand if something is taking longer than it should like when someone arrives 20 minutes later, I'd say 'het is al twintig over 10' instead of 'het is al tien voor half 11'.
Personnally I don't think that it really matters which one you use as long as it is understood.
in The Netherlands we use 24-hour time but in practice in day-to-day life a 12 hour time is almost always used so 00:00 is midnight, 12:00 is twelve o'clock, 13:00 is one o'clock in the afternoon. the 24 hour designation is pretty much only used when making appointments and reservations.
Although it’s over 60 years ago, this is how it was taught at school: the clock was segmented into 2 halves, and subsequently into 4 quarters. So let’s say we start with 1 o’clock, then it’s 1-2-3-4-5 past, until 15 past (kwart over), and beyond that it’s 14 to ‘half 2’.
Then 1.35 is ‘5 over half’ up to ‘14 over half’, at which point 15 over half switches to 15 to 2 o’clock = kwart voor 2.
in belgium, it's much more like english: middag means the exact middle of the day, it's a point: 12hrs. before that is voormiddag, after it is namiddag, then comes evening.
Regarding the 2 am thing: technically it is definitely the next day, so morning. But what you actually call it is based on how you feel, and what you want to believe at that time. So if, for some reason, you have to get up really, REALLY early, and therefore are awake at 02.00, you would probably call that time morning and acknowledge that it is the day it actually is. But if you are partying, and 2 o'clock comes up, and you don't feel like the party should end yet, you would probably call that evening or night because it still feels like the previous day and saying it is already morning would bum everybody out.
In my oppinion its like this. Ochtend is from 6 to 12. The morgen is like the time that takes you to get out of bed, get dressed, have breakfast, get ready. Before you go to work. So it is more fluid with no definition of time. then the word ochtend.
Hi Casey. Concerning time, it might help to visualize an analogue clock. That’s how we learn our children (at least old geezers like myself dating from pre-digital times). That makes it easy as pie. ‘20’ is always ‘tien voor half’ and ‘40’ ‘tien over half’. Another basic rule (or custom, maybe) is that between 15 and 30 (‘half’), we use ‘voor’ - so 4:17 becomes ‘13 voor half vijf’. And similarly between 30 and 45 we use ‘over’ - 4:42 is ‘twaalf over half vijf’. Challenging, to say the least ;)
2 o'clock in the morning is 2 uur 'snachts.. the new day begins at 12 (2 hours before), but when you are going out, some Dutch people will still name it as if it were the day they started partying. You are doing pretty well actually!
I once was an hour early on an English appointment. Half two in England is 2.30 pm, Half twee in Nederland is 1.30 pm.
hahaha hopefully you only do this once....I have now made a habit of confirming with a hour and minutes response just to 100% make sure we are talking about the same time.
Amen sister!
If someone wants do something "in de middag" or "vanmiddag" it's probably between 1 and 5 o'clock. Because at 12 you're still at lunch and around 5 you start preparing dinner so you cant eat at 6. (not al dutch do this but for 9 out of 10 this a standard "middag"). So if you want to do something you've to start before 4 because people won't have time past 5. I'm estimating that whatever you want to do takes about an hour, but if you want to do something longer or don't have an end time planned, you should start around 2 or 3. And when you don't know the exact timing when someone says "kom vanmiddag anders even langs" just ask "wanneer komt het uit?" or "hoelaat moet ik komen?" and most will answer with an exact time and if not it really doesn't matter (but still apply the between 1 and 5 an for longer things before 4 best 2 or 3 o'clock).