JTVFX deserves a whole ton of recognition for the truely excellent work they did to finally show us what the Battle Of Wolf 359 could have looked like. I never tire of watching it.
The Oberth were actually really good command and control ships because of their dedicated sensor package. They weren't meant to engage the enemy but rather coordinate the attack on the Borg cube.
@@chrisortega7521 Guy, you have been playing too much STO. It’s a small science vessel intended for planetary surveys that dates to the late 23rd century. While certainly upgraded along the way, canonically the nova class replaced them. A bird of prey one shot one by accident.
Akira Class was built after the Battle of Wolf 359, it was designed as a response to the Borg and part of the Anti-Borg fleet (Akira, Norway, Saber, Defiant)
Sovereign-class asweel the 3 main horses agaisnt borg where ment to be akira Sovereign and defiand class at first norway and steamrunner came aperently abit later cuz defiand class hat major problems like ripping itself apart and such saber i think where aktualy in development to replace other ships at that point in time anyway so i would not count that one ad an anti borg ship but an inbroved border patrol ship
While true the Wolf 359 project accounts for this. With the idea that they had already been preparing in the build up after Q Who. So the Kaneda in this case was a testbed/prototype which although failing at Wolf 359 gave more data to feed back into the Akira project as a whole and better the design until you had the likes of the Thunderchild survive Sector 001.
Full battle of Wolf 359? YES, PLEASE!!!! There could not be an Akira-Class in service, as this class entered service AFTER the Battle of Wolf 359. Also the Bellerophon could not be of the Intrepid Class as this class also entered service after the Battle of Wolf 359.
In STO story that's one of the prototype Akira's before the class has officially entered Service (it's the USS Kaneda), the idea that the Akira was in development at the time
40 ships doesn't sound like a lot but the episode took place over a period of only a few days. So those 40 ships were within about a 5 or 6 light years of Wolf 359. Which isn't that bad given how large the Federation is.
And, there was the fact that Starfleet didn't have 1000s of ships until DS9 era, when they upped the ship counts to make battles more spectacular. 40 ships accounted for a large chunk of Starfleet, which is why in immediately following episodes they commented on how thinly stretched Starfleet was.
@@AlamandoriousNah, they had 1000s of ships, but they were 90% obsolete small models. Mirandas everywhere. Just look at the 5-digit NCC codes compared to 4-digit ones from the 2200s.
@@DanielMWJ Those registry codes weren't indicative of fleet numbers, at least not at first :P There's a reason 39 ships was considered a heavy loss...if they had 1000s of ships, it would have been sad, there would not have been a concern about the fleet being stretched thin.
@Alamandorious But, well, most of their ships would be basically useless. You could throw a thousand Mirandas at a cube and it would just mulch them. Basically, almost all their ships are able to do scientific surveys, or run supplies, or police some smugglers. But they aren't rated for combat with even sub-peer neighbors. Don't forget that even *runabouts* are considered starships with NCC codes.
@@DanielMWJ I think you need to remember Q's quote from Q Who...about what adversaries the Federation had been measuring itself against. The only reason they went to 1000s of ships was to have battles as spectacular as Bablyon 5, their main Sci Fi rival of the time.
The USS Endeavour is my favourite non-hero ship in Trek. The team who worked on First Contact have said the Nebula class seen briefly onscreen is Endeavour and was due to be named directly, so my head canon is it is the same ship and so survived Wolf 359, survived the Battle of Sector 001 and apparently survived the entire Dominion War. She’s basically a complete badass ship. Like many have said, JTVFX’s battle sequence is outstanding, top tier work. It does not disappoint, and for me is the definitive Battle of Wolf 359.
That same glory falls to the Hood also, that ship survived the end of kirks era, wolf 359, first contact(technically wasn't there but it was around still) the dominion war and is continuing to exist in Lower decks meaning it could very well have been active somewhere during Picard season 3
@ I didn’t know USS Hood’s history until recently, but yes she is a pretty badass ship too. As a Brit, seeing the name “Hood” attached to a ship with an interesting story makes me happy 😊
A side note about the Righteous: According to Star Trek: Borg, it actually survived the attack, thanks to Q, who transported it into the future at the time of its destruction in the battle. It's a very good story, honestly. One of my favorite star trek stories. It was originally a game, but Simon and Schuster reformatted it into an audiobook, giving the main character a voice as well.
“Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley'd and thunder'd; Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred” - Miles O’Brien & Julian Bashir
The Endeavour was always labelled in the first Encylopedia as the sole survivor, and Janeway reading Capt Amisov’s log in “Scorpion” was in my mind keeping that entry as canon. This battle has always left more questions than answers and I love it :)
In my opinion I believe there has been a real resurgence in Star Trek and there’s a true opportunity( if done properly) to close lots of gaps. A short trek of the battle of Wolf 359 would be an excellent idea, but also what I think lots of fans would enjoy would be going back to the NX-01 era and seeing the formation of the COP, romulan war and official formation of the UFP. Would love to see the NX refit on screen, them pulling and refitting the Daedalus class would be awesome, also the enterprise c time period. Man so many opportunities missed but yet still many more opportunities there for the taking 🖖🏽
I would have liked them to have made star trek legacy, though I'm not a fan of them renaming the titian-a to the enterprise-g, its a insult to the people who died on the Titian.
@@mckayfanhow exactly is it an insult? Especially considering that a majority of their crew was transferred to the Intrepid, leaving a skeleton crew behind of which only a handful died during the borg assimilation. All in all having that ship become the enterprise embodies what the enterprise is supposed to be, a symbol of hope lighting the way through the final frontier, plus it honoured the crew of the D and E, whom risked their lives to save all of the federation, and considering the F was so very "tragically" destroyed in orbit of earth, a new enterprise was needed.
Lieutenant Steve Levy, a Starfleet officer who believes Wolf 359 (the event in which Locutus and The Borg wiped out a ton of starships) was an inside job.
The Belerophon was not the Intrepid Class one. The Parliament Class also seems like a post Wolf359 design, same as the shown Akira Class. Star Trek Online made some mistakes.
Nothing in alpha canon tells us when the Akira class was developed, the timeline make far more sense if the Akira and the Defiant were those "anti-Borg" things Hanson mentioned in the episodes as not being ready yet. We know that by the time of Battle of Sector 001 there was at very least 2 Akiras in Service (USS Akira and USS Thunderchild) Battle of Wolf 359 is in early 2367, Battle of Sector 001 is in 2373, six years seems kind of short time to go from concept to full production of several units, considering how common the Akira is during the Dominion war that seems a really short time.
@@vic5015 Which would imply it's an established class not one that was not even a concept 6 years prior, there simply isn't enough time to build so many Akiras that they'd be used for anything but testing.
In the Star Trek novels that William Shatner wrote with the Reeves-Stevens, the Battle of the Wolf 359 also occurred in the mirror universe. However, this battle was between the Terran Empire and the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance. The Terrans were routed, and the Alliance bombarded Earth, vaporizing the Great Lakes and the other landlocked bodies of water.
I really like the idea of the Connie Class USS Republic now T.S. registry, as a training ship, likely Starfleet was scrambling to assemble any kind of fleet, thus they brought in a training ship.
I've said this elsewhere, but seeing the wreckage of a Constitution class ship after the battle was pretty harrowing, and really spoke of how desperate The Federation were to get literally anything, even ships that had been mothballed years prior, in the path of the Borg Cube.
Star Trek Online took major inspiration for their recreation of the Battle of Wolf-359 from the Wolf359Project's fan work "We Have Engaged the Borg" for the inclusion of several vessels (Akira, Parliament, etc) that might at first seem era anachronistic. They give reasonable arguments for the inclusion of such vessels (Akira is a prototype, Parliament has no canon launch date), but as it is only a fan work (and STO is not canon either, but it is officially licenced), people are free to ignore it as they wish, but neither are technically mistakes by the STO developers as some commenters are saying. As pointed out not all ships were ever named in canon, which gives beta canon material such as STO and fan work such as the Wolf359Project plenty of room to build upon the established canon. Also worth noting, there are even differences between the Wolf359Project and STO. Several vessel classes the used in the former are not used by the latter for various reasons. For example, USS Sha Ka Ree is a Shangri-La class (from which we get the Constituton-III Titan-A) in Wolf359Project but as STO does not have the rights to use that class , they went with their own Vesper Class instead.
17:34 Mark! I'm Viewer #28,549! 🎉 Thumb Up #1,339! 👍 TC, you're welcome, and thanks! 😊 Notes: This was fun to hear and view! But I miss seeing still photographs or a printed list of the lost ships. At least then I could easily refer to such a list. 😊 Bye-bye for now! Namaste! 🙏
You can see the failure of their tactics quite easily, instead of concentrating all fire on one spot and breaking down the shield, then introducing fire into the cube itself (which is what Picard later) they were hitting cube all over and thereby diluting their firepower. Good video on it though!
You are half correct. It was a break down in tactics that led to this disaster, but their firepower being everywhere wasn't their ultimate downfall. Their downfall was fully in Starfleet's tactics of hitting them in picket line waves. The swarm tactic actually works better as evidence by the way they were attacking everywhere at once during the battle of Sector 001. By them using wave tactics it allowed the borg cube to cut the Federation ships apart piecemeal. Where as by swarming the ship and attacking everywhere at once, it forced the Borg ro have divert power from other systems to compensate. As the Enterprise E notes, the cube had sustained heavy damage. Also what Picard did was use insider knowledge on how a Borg Cube works to blow it up.
Seeing a few D'Deridex Warbirds decloak and attack would've been amazing... along with a couple of wings of Klingon warships! Hanson even says the Klingons are sending warships... Obviously not really possible with the VFX of the time. I wish I had the 3D skills to do that battle in all it's glory! lol
Ironically, Worf 359, the single biggest defeat the Federation had suffered in over a century, was what ultimately saved the Federation. The Borg curb stomping the Federation was the swift kick in the ass the Federation needed to realize that they didn’t have the necessary fleet to deal with threats beyond the standard enemies they were used to facing. The rapid modernization and upgrading of their fleet prepared the Federation for the arrival of the Dominion, who no doubt would have easily rolled over them if they didn’t have the new fleet to face them.
The fact they had a Constitution class shows they were pulling out all available ships that were combat ready. The Oberth was a bit redundant. Hope whoever ordered them to the battle was court-martialed.
The battle wasn't shown for budget reasons but i actually think that hits so much harder for the episode, not knowing whats going on at the battle along with the enterprise crew and holding out hope right until the gut wrenching reveal
I always thought that the Melbourne that was offered to Riker was also the ship that Adm. Hansen used as a flagship at Wolf 359. Anyone else think that also? I thought it was implied in BOBW?
I did too, especially since she was newly commissioned. It makes sense too since we see how small the bridge is when Hansen contacts Enterprise, the dimensions look pretty similar to the Endeavor's bridge seen later on.
Correct. As per the ST:TNG Companion (a book of EVERY ST:TNG episode from the pilot "Encounter at Farpoint" to the final episode of Season 7) Riker was offered command of the Nebula-class USS Melbourne. The editor\writer notes for BOBW P1 & P2 states that the Melbourne destroyed at Wolf 359 is the same ship. Official losses were listed as 39 ships.
According to Memory Alpha the class entered service in 2371, two years before 359. Beta cannon says development began in the 2350s in response to hostilities with the Kardashians.
@@davidrose8336 The Battle of Wolf 359 took place in early 2367. 4 years before 2371. So the numbers don't add up. It's just STO getting stuff wrong, again
The thing I always liked about this battle was the location. Wolf 359 is only about 8 light years from Earth. At high warp that's maybe about a day or so away. So that really speaks to the urgency that the Borg are literally at our front door. So it makes sense we would have thrown almost everything we had at it, even training ships and non-combat ships.
A fun video for sure and as Lore Reloaded stated in his Nattle Breakdown of Wolf 359 there were very modern ships at the battle and a video like this shows it.
I was at wolf 359 I was an ensign right out the academy. I was at conn on the uss Nick Carter a Miranda class. When I tell you this was a battle of absolute ineptitude for the federation. My god we were in over our heads. Instead of everyone firing a barrage of torpedos at once and focusing phaser fire on one spot we decided to fly in 3-4 ships at a time only firing one spread of torps at a time
I like the fact the Federation of 100's of planets could only send 30 odd ships to defend its capital. Star Trek was really terrible at scale until DS9. Even then they didn't think that after slowing the ships down for TNG that the maps which are now cannon make no sense in the context of the shows/films.
We tease the kit bash, but really to be the most cost effective it makes a lotta sense. One saucer type, one necelle type, leaves corridors and other parts pretty much all the same to keep recourses costs down.
I was always under the assumption that the Akira Class was designed and built as a response to the losses at Wolf 359 as one of the new generation of ship designs.
Every Starship at the Battle of Wolf 359: Nebula Class Starships Niagra Class Starships New Orleans Class Starships Freedom Class Starships Oberth Class Starship Constitution 2 Class Starship Miranda Class Starship Cheyenne Class Starships Ambassador Class Starships Constellation Class Starships Centaur Class Starships Challenger Class Starship Springfield Class Starship Nerendra Class Starships Galaxy Class Starship Shikar Class Starship Georgiou Class Starship Parliament Class Starship Akira Class Starship
A Short Trek, of Wolf 359 could be intriguing. But, I think I'd prefer one of the aftermath, a secret Romulan cloak and dagger one, where they steal and investigate Federation technology where Romulan Star Empire is weaker.
I see the editior accidentally used the Intrepid class Bellerophon for the montage rather than the Nebula class Bellerophon lol. I am doubting an Akira being there as that was constructed in response of the battle as one of the borg busters. The Parliament was also a later design being introduced around 2380.
In two of the sequences shown, I saw a constitution 2 type Dreadnought with three nacelles. Which one was that? When introducing the Constellation class you see the dreadnaught at 7:15
When you look at the type of starships present at Wolf 359 you realize very quickly how woefully underprepared Starfleet was at the time for a major military threat. How complacent and comfortable they'd gotten with the Kingons being allies, the Romulans in hiding, and there being no real local power that could challenge the Federation. Then fast forward to the battle of Sector 001 and the caliber of ships there only like a decade later and the fact that by the time the Enterprise showed up Starfleet had actually succeeded in doing major damage to the Borg cube, it just took a final concentration of fire in the right place to finish it off. It starts to become clear that Q did humanity a huge favor in the long run by formally introducing them to the Borg.
Star Trek special effects guru's build and scrap ships for a single episode with no intention of saving them away for history, the fans say, "We'll take it from here."
I thought the ambassador class" excalibur" was mentioned in the battle was present before captian calhoun took its seat from the new frontier book series.
The U.S.S. Victory was a Constellation Class ship. It was actually shown in an episode featuring some of Geordi LaForge's back story. I'm not sure about it's being at the battle. But I just lack info as far as that's concerned. But it positively was a Constellation class starship.😊
There was no Galaxy-class Starship at Wolf 359. In every single on-screen visual from Star Trek we've had of the battle and the aftermath, one has never been depicted. And they would have depicted it, just to show how nasty the Borg were. And also, the timeline for the initial construction of Galaxy-class starships shows that the first of the next 3 after the Enterprise wouldn't have been finished in time for Wolf 359.
I primarily don't like two things about starfleet ships: - No proper connection to the secondary hull (like Oberth class), because: makes no sense - redesign of previous classes (like Excelsior 1 and 2 class), because: makes no sense to me using an updated design decades later. Starfleet has always reinvented not reused. Successively upgrades like Excelsior B or Constitution B are fine and much more logical.
I am still really good with not having a comprehensive list of ships or a complete canon battle. If that had been available at the outset it would have tied the hands (or at the least forced them to choose something they might not want to) when considering the story of Liam Shaw. Ambiguity can create the best future writing.
As far as i'm aware the Akira, Intrepid and parliament classes were all built post wolf 359. It is also doubtful that an akira class protototype was there and the defiant wasn't, because the 1st ship of the anti borg line of ships to reach prototype stage was the defiant. Then due to issues it was shelved until the dominion was encountered. The 1st of the anti borg classes enter service was either the sabre or steamrunner. I think it was sabre but cant remember for sure.
I think there is always going to be a bit of crossover when it comes to which survived. You have the one ship that managed to get away then the others who were abandoned then salvage and returned to duty. So technically they did survive.
Endeavour is missing from the full list. Also, the Republic is quoted by Red Squad as a training ship that hasn't left the Terran system in decades, so unless they're mistaken, I cannot see how she was at Wolf 359.
I know that the real reason was for dramatic effect, but I never understood the in universe reason that a Miranda Class would have families on board. A Galaxy class was originally a floating city, and I always assumed that they were the first ones to do that.
I feel like that prior to Wolf 359 and prior to the Dominion War, that Star Fleet didn't really have a handle on efficiency when it came to Star Ship Construction. There were so many different Classes of ships, most of them outdated, and probably refitted more than once over the years. I doubt it was due to lack of funding, because of the number of different classes involved. Star Fleet obviously had resources to throw around on experimenting with different types of Ship Classes to serve different functions, but the fact that so many outdated ships were pressed into combat tells me that Star Fleet didn't really know how to consolidate their Fleet into a cohesive Military Force. They were obviously scrambling just to gather together enough bodies, so to speak, to throw at the Borg. Where as by the time of the Dominion War, they had learned their lessons.
In "The Drumhead", I thought Norah Satie mentioned Starfleet and Klingon ships destroyed, IIRC. So maybe there were one or two Klingon ships which were part of the exchange program as seen in "A Matter of Honor". Klingons further away would be willing to fight but wouldn't make it in time.
I've always found it odd just how little the amount of ships there are in Star Trek. You would think there would be at tens of thousands of ships in the combine Federation fleet. It seems like there is only a max of 150 warships at any given time.
u have to remeber how big the federation is and the amount of ground or in this case space to cover is and at that time starfleed was mor on exploring the galaxy not fighting wars so the hsips would be usualy far out only a hand full of smaller ships would be around to patrol the intern areas of the federation that there even got 40 ships in the short amount of time together initself is a wonder sure most where older ships and not meant for combat but the time til the borg got there is also short and as was statet the federaration did ask the klingons for help that shows hoe desprete there where to get ships to that fight in time asweel so yeah there surely have more than 150 ships not warships tho remeber starfleet didnt do war till that time atleast there tryt to avoit wars if posible so there hatn o real warships to begin with ether too only ships that ocult handle a fight or defend themself against others but borg are spezial as we all know so thats my sence to that
I know they had to make it into an episode where they wouldn’t use. Unconventional means to deal with the borg . But I’ve always had the perfect scenario of how to deal with one board cube. You can pilot a starship remotely and that Starfleet has access to one of the most volatile and dangerous explosives known to man and it is a byproduct of the cell warp engine process, namely tri lithium you pack for five maybe six Miranda class or more starships full of this violent explosive you pilot them in a ring of death in a 360° view and ram them into the cube and detonate on impact this would discourage the Borg into leaving star fleet alone you don’t know how many obsolete starships they are going to pull out of mothballs plug in a giant remote control and ram into your vessel. I think it’s a perfect solution to the problem. You don’t have to worry about wasting personnel and solve the problem.
The Chekhov wasn’t named for the character from the Original series, different spelling. It was replaced in dialogue by the Tolstoy when Shelby listed some of the wrecks in BoBW 2 to avoid confusion though as it’s pronounced the same. People should check out the Wolf 359 Project for their reasoning behind an Akira (Kaneda) and Parliament being at the battle, and although Amasov made a log entry about the Borg it’s never established that his ship was at Wolf 359.
If i recall correctly it's implied(via recycled footage) USS Roosevelt is either a Miranda or Excelsior class as shown in Voy episode Unity which ex borg Riley was a crewmember of.
USS Endeavour and Captain Amasov were the sole survivors of Wolf 359! "It is my opinion that the Borg are as close to pure evil as any race we've ever encountered."---Asamov's personal log (VOY: 'Scorpion'). TNG had the Endeavour taking part in Picard's blocade during the Klingon Civil War and being active in the Dominion War. Trek Central recognizes the Endeavour being at Wolf 359, and JTVFX has Asamov taking command of the fleet after Admiral Hansen's flagship (USS Auriga) was destroyed by the Borg Cube. Its just a bloody shame the name Endeavour hasn't become a legacy ship. (Skaka, when the walls fell!)😅
Wolf 359 proved Q was Right the Federation had become arrogant by this point and thought The Borg while strong would still be able to be beaten using conventional tactics. Hanson was a fool to ignore the basic threat that an assimilated Picard posed. Luckily though the massacre gave the Federation the kick in the teeth to actually start building ships that could actually fight as well as explore.
JTVFX deserves a whole ton of recognition for the truely excellent work they did to finally show us what the Battle Of Wolf 359 could have looked like. I never tire of watching it.
Agreed so much
Of the 1,000,000+ views I think I've contributed around 200. Can't wait for part 2.
@@control4230
So agree!
JTVFX is going through ruff times so please support him. I’m glad he is getting the recognition he deserves.
I rewatch it quite a bit
The idea of an Oberth in combat just sounds like an execution.
@@mikewaterfield3599 that’s what lead to the 24th century adage of “you brought an Oberth to a Cube fight”
The Oberth were actually really good command and control ships because of their dedicated sensor package. They weren't meant to engage the enemy but rather coordinate the attack on the Borg cube.
@@chrisortega7521 Guy, you have been playing too much STO. It’s a small science vessel intended for planetary surveys that dates to the late 23rd century. While certainly upgraded along the way, canonically the nova class replaced them. A bird of prey one shot one by accident.
@@mikewaterfield3599 that always made me laugh. One shot at red alert too which means thier shields were up
@@davyman2000 They are just not meant for combat. IRL navies have ships not meant to be anywhere near combat.
The Kaneda being an Akira class ship is a great subtle joke.
Ah, I get it!
Akira Class was built after the Battle of Wolf 359, it was designed as a response to the Borg and part of the Anti-Borg fleet (Akira, Norway, Saber, Defiant)
And Steamrunner! =D
@@michaelstepa8748 I love the Steamrunner design so much.
Sovereign-class asweel the 3 main horses agaisnt borg where ment to be akira Sovereign and defiand class at first norway and steamrunner came aperently abit later cuz defiand class hat major problems like ripping itself apart and such saber i think where aktualy in development to replace other ships at that point in time anyway so i would not count that one ad an anti borg ship but an inbroved border patrol ship
While true the Wolf 359 project accounts for this. With the idea that they had already been preparing in the build up after Q Who. So the Kaneda in this case was a testbed/prototype which although failing at Wolf 359 gave more data to feed back into the Akira project as a whole and better the design until you had the likes of the Thunderchild survive Sector 001.
I thought that along with the saber and steam runner
it was one of the most destructive battles for the feds up until the dominion war said hold my beer lmao
@@Demiurge13 Then the Battle at Sector 001 in First Contact haha
Full battle of Wolf 359? YES, PLEASE!!!!
There could not be an Akira-Class in service, as this class entered service AFTER the Battle of Wolf 359. Also the Bellerophon could not be of the Intrepid Class as this class also entered service after the Battle of Wolf 359.
Could have been another Bellerophon, but yeah, using the shot of the Intrepid Bellerophon is a definite goof.
In STO story that's one of the prototype Akira's before the class has officially entered Service (it's the USS Kaneda), the idea that the Akira was in development at the time
Bellerophon was a Nebula class. Later replaced by a Intrepid class. Both seen post Wolf 359 in DS9
OK, so what Alpha canon establishes that the Akira cannot be in service at W359?
@@PinkThorn242 The Fact Files.
Those poor ******** on the Oberth class. "Oberth here, making our attack run!"...."Aaaaaaahhhhh Boom"
Dead before the hail even ends.
40 ships doesn't sound like a lot but the episode took place over a period of only a few days. So those 40 ships were within about a 5 or 6 light years of Wolf 359. Which isn't that bad given how large the Federation is.
And, there was the fact that Starfleet didn't have 1000s of ships until DS9 era, when they upped the ship counts to make battles more spectacular.
40 ships accounted for a large chunk of Starfleet, which is why in immediately following episodes they commented on how thinly stretched Starfleet was.
@@AlamandoriousNah, they had 1000s of ships, but they were 90% obsolete small models. Mirandas everywhere. Just look at the 5-digit NCC codes compared to 4-digit ones from the 2200s.
@@DanielMWJ Those registry codes weren't indicative of fleet numbers, at least not at first :P There's a reason 39 ships was considered a heavy loss...if they had 1000s of ships, it would have been sad, there would not have been a concern about the fleet being stretched thin.
@Alamandorious But, well, most of their ships would be basically useless. You could throw a thousand Mirandas at a cube and it would just mulch them. Basically, almost all their ships are able to do scientific surveys, or run supplies, or police some smugglers. But they aren't rated for combat with even sub-peer neighbors.
Don't forget that even *runabouts* are considered starships with NCC codes.
@@DanielMWJ I think you need to remember Q's quote from Q Who...about what adversaries the Federation had been measuring itself against.
The only reason they went to 1000s of ships was to have battles as spectacular as Bablyon 5, their main Sci Fi rival of the time.
The USS Endeavour is my favourite non-hero ship in Trek. The team who worked on First Contact have said the Nebula class seen briefly onscreen is Endeavour and was due to be named directly, so my head canon is it is the same ship and so survived Wolf 359, survived the Battle of Sector 001 and apparently survived the entire Dominion War. She’s basically a complete badass ship.
Like many have said, JTVFX’s battle sequence is outstanding, top tier work. It does not disappoint, and for me is the definitive Battle of Wolf 359.
That same glory falls to the Hood also, that ship survived the end of kirks era, wolf 359, first contact(technically wasn't there but it was around still) the dominion war and is continuing to exist in Lower decks meaning it could very well have been active somewhere during Picard season 3
@ I didn’t know USS Hood’s history until recently, but yes she is a pretty badass ship too.
As a Brit, seeing the name “Hood” attached to a ship with an interesting story makes me happy 😊
@@deaks25 plus it's an Excelsior class, one of the best looking cruisers Starfleet has ever made.
I love that JTVFX added a late 23rd century Federation Class Refit Dreadnought to his version of the Battle
A side note about the Righteous: According to Star Trek: Borg, it actually survived the attack, thanks to Q, who transported it into the future at the time of its destruction in the battle.
It's a very good story, honestly. One of my favorite star trek stories. It was originally a game, but Simon and Schuster reformatted it into an audiobook, giving the main character a voice as well.
“Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley'd and thunder'd; Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred” - Miles O’Brien & Julian Bashir
The Endeavour was always labelled in the first Encylopedia as the sole survivor, and Janeway reading Capt Amisov’s log in “Scorpion” was in my mind keeping that entry as canon.
This battle has always left more questions than answers and I love it :)
In my opinion I believe there has been a real resurgence in Star Trek and there’s a true opportunity( if done properly) to close lots of gaps. A short trek of the battle of Wolf 359 would be an excellent idea, but also what I think lots of fans would enjoy would be going back to the NX-01 era and seeing the formation of the COP, romulan war and official formation of the UFP. Would love to see the NX refit on screen, them pulling and refitting the Daedalus class would be awesome, also the enterprise c time period. Man so many opportunities missed but yet still many more opportunities there for the taking 🖖🏽
I would have liked them to have made star trek legacy, though I'm not a fan of them renaming the titian-a to the enterprise-g, its a insult to the people who died on the Titian.
@@mckayfanhow exactly is it an insult? Especially considering that a majority of their crew was transferred to the Intrepid, leaving a skeleton crew behind of which only a handful died during the borg assimilation.
All in all having that ship become the enterprise embodies what the enterprise is supposed to be, a symbol of hope lighting the way through the final frontier, plus it honoured the crew of the D and E, whom risked their lives to save all of the federation, and considering the F was so very "tragically" destroyed in orbit of earth, a new enterprise was needed.
As a huge Romulan fan since the 70's I would have loved to see the RSE help out at Wolf 359. Jolan Tru.
If it´s any consolation I bet there were few enough Tal Shiar´s operatives embedded in the present crews.
Everytime theres a topic about The Battle of Wolf 359 it caughts my attention
Lieutenant Steve Levy, a Starfleet officer who believes Wolf 359 (the event in which Locutus and The Borg wiped out a ton of starships) was an inside job.
No the Kyushu (Kew-shoo) was mentioned by commander Shelby as one of the wrekages. 9:00
The Wolf 359 and best of both worlds is a favorite I like watch around Halloween Time. It’s a TNG/ DS9 Classic.
The Belerophon was not the Intrepid Class one. The Parliament Class also seems like a post Wolf359 design, same as the shown Akira Class. Star Trek Online made some mistakes.
Yes makes no sense, the ship was later in DS9
Yeah, the Akira was a response to 359, like the Defiant class. Leaner and meaner.
Nothing in alpha canon tells us when the Akira class was developed, the timeline make far more sense if the Akira and the Defiant were those "anti-Borg" things Hanson mentioned in the episodes as not being ready yet. We know that by the time of Battle of Sector 001 there was at very least 2 Akiras in Service (USS Akira and USS Thunderchild) Battle of Wolf 359 is in early 2367, Battle of Sector 001 is in 2373, six years seems kind of short time to go from concept to full production of several units, considering how common the Akira is during the Dominion war that seems a really short time.
@@SampoPaalanenI thought that the lore said the Akiras were recalled from patrol duties along the borders to help in the war.
@@vic5015 Which would imply it's an established class not one that was not even a concept 6 years prior, there simply isn't enough time to build so many Akiras that they'd be used for anything but testing.
In the Star Trek novels that William Shatner wrote with the Reeves-Stevens, the Battle of the Wolf 359 also occurred in the mirror universe. However, this battle was between the Terran Empire and the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance. The Terrans were routed, and the Alliance bombarded Earth, vaporizing the Great Lakes and the other landlocked bodies of water.
Really? I don’t remember any of that, then again it’s been something like 20 years since I last read those books.
I really like the idea of the Connie Class USS Republic now T.S. registry, as a training ship, likely Starfleet was scrambling to assemble any kind of fleet, thus they brought in a training ship.
Suggesting they threw a bunch of cadets up against the Borg. Oof. Not the first time Starfleet's done something like that, mind you...
I've said this elsewhere, but seeing the wreckage of a Constitution class ship after the battle was pretty harrowing, and really spoke of how desperate The Federation were to get literally anything, even ships that had been mothballed years prior, in the path of the Borg Cube.
man star fleet was really caughtt slacking if they sent an Oberth to war lol
I've seen fan fiction suggesting that the Oberth class could function as a form of AWACs
Star Trek Online took major inspiration for their recreation of the Battle of Wolf-359 from the Wolf359Project's fan work "We Have Engaged the Borg" for the inclusion of several vessels (Akira, Parliament, etc) that might at first seem era anachronistic. They give reasonable arguments for the inclusion of such vessels (Akira is a prototype, Parliament has no canon launch date), but as it is only a fan work (and STO is not canon either, but it is officially licenced), people are free to ignore it as they wish, but neither are technically mistakes by the STO developers as some commenters are saying.
As pointed out not all ships were ever named in canon, which gives beta canon material such as STO and fan work such as the Wolf359Project plenty of room to build upon the established canon. Also worth noting, there are even differences between the Wolf359Project and STO. Several vessel classes the used in the former are not used by the latter for various reasons. For example, USS Sha Ka Ree is a Shangri-La class (from which we get the Constituton-III Titan-A) in Wolf359Project but as STO does not have the rights to use that class , they went with their own Vesper Class instead.
Oberth class: *chuckles* I’m in danger
17:34 Mark! I'm Viewer #28,549! 🎉 Thumb Up #1,339! 👍 TC, you're welcome, and thanks! 😊
Notes: This was fun to hear and view! But I miss seeing still photographs or a printed list of the lost ships. At least then I could easily refer to such a list. 😊
Bye-bye for now! Namaste! 🙏
You can see the failure of their tactics quite easily, instead of concentrating all fire on one spot and breaking down the shield, then introducing fire into the cube itself (which is what Picard later) they were hitting cube all over and thereby diluting their firepower. Good video on it though!
You are half correct. It was a break down in tactics that led to this disaster, but their firepower being everywhere wasn't their ultimate downfall. Their downfall was fully in Starfleet's tactics of hitting them in picket line waves. The swarm tactic actually works better as evidence by the way they were attacking everywhere at once during the battle of Sector 001. By them using wave tactics it allowed the borg cube to cut the Federation ships apart piecemeal. Where as by swarming the ship and attacking everywhere at once, it forced the Borg ro have divert power from other systems to compensate. As the Enterprise E notes, the cube had sustained heavy damage. Also what Picard did was use insider knowledge on how a Borg Cube works to blow it up.
Seeing a few D'Deridex Warbirds decloak and attack would've been amazing... along with a couple of wings of Klingon warships!
Hanson even says the Klingons are sending warships...
Obviously not really possible with the VFX of the time.
I wish I had the 3D skills to do that battle in all it's glory! lol
Ironically, Worf 359, the single biggest defeat the Federation had suffered in over a century, was what ultimately saved the Federation.
The Borg curb stomping the Federation was the swift kick in the ass the Federation needed to realize that they didn’t have the necessary fleet to deal with threats beyond the standard enemies they were used to facing.
The rapid modernization and upgrading of their fleet prepared the Federation for the arrival of the Dominion, who no doubt would have easily rolled over them if they didn’t have the new fleet to face them.
The fact they had a Constitution class shows they were pulling out all available ships that were combat ready. The Oberth was a bit redundant. Hope whoever ordered them to the battle was court-martialed.
The battle wasn't shown for budget reasons but i actually think that hits so much harder for the episode, not knowing whats going on at the battle along with the enterprise crew and holding out hope right until the gut wrenching reveal
I always thought that the Melbourne that was offered to Riker was also the ship that Adm. Hansen used as a flagship at Wolf 359. Anyone else think that also? I thought it was implied in BOBW?
I did too, especially since she was newly commissioned. It makes sense too since we see how small the bridge is when Hansen contacts Enterprise, the dimensions look pretty similar to the Endeavor's bridge seen later on.
Correct. As per the ST:TNG Companion (a book of EVERY ST:TNG episode from the pilot "Encounter at Farpoint" to the final episode of Season 7) Riker was offered command of the Nebula-class USS Melbourne. The editor\writer notes for BOBW P1 & P2 states that the Melbourne destroyed at Wolf 359 is the same ship.
Official losses were listed as 39 ships.
I thought the AKIRA was designed post wolf 359 to specifically fight the both as part of Starfleet anti borg fleet?
According to Memory Alpha the class entered service in 2371, two years before 359. Beta cannon says development began in the 2350s in response to hostilities with the Kardashians.
@@davidrose8336You need 15 torpedo launchers for those bimbos.
@@davidrose8336 I thought the Kardashians would be extinct by then... God help future entertainment media Hahaha
@@davidrose8336 The Battle of Wolf 359 took place in early 2367. 4 years before 2371. So the numbers don't add up.
It's just STO getting stuff wrong, again
The thing I always liked about this battle was the location. Wolf 359 is only about 8 light years from Earth. At high warp that's maybe about a day or so away. So that really speaks to the urgency that the Borg are literally at our front door. So it makes sense we would have thrown almost everything we had at it, even training ships and non-combat ships.
A fun video for sure and as Lore Reloaded stated in his Nattle Breakdown of Wolf 359 there were very modern ships at the battle and a video like this shows it.
Thank you!
I was at wolf 359 I was an ensign right out the academy. I was at conn on the uss Nick Carter a Miranda class. When I tell you this was a battle of absolute ineptitude for the federation. My god we were in over our heads. Instead of everyone firing a barrage of torpedos at once and focusing phaser fire on one spot we decided to fly in 3-4 ships at a time only firing one spread of torps at a time
I like the fact the Federation of 100's of planets could only send 30 odd ships to defend its capital.
Star Trek was really terrible at scale until DS9. Even then they didn't think that after slowing the ships down for TNG that the maps which are now cannon make no sense in the context of the shows/films.
We tease the kit bash, but really to be the most cost effective it makes a lotta sense. One saucer type, one necelle type, leaves corridors and other parts pretty much all the same to keep recourses costs down.
I was always under the assumption that the Akira Class was designed and built as a response to the losses at Wolf 359 as one of the new generation of ship designs.
This was wonderful! (Fascinating)
As always, thank you so very much for the video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I'd love to see a full length video of the battle of wolf 359
Every Starship at the Battle of Wolf 359:
Nebula Class Starships
Niagra Class Starships
New Orleans Class Starships
Freedom Class Starships
Oberth Class Starship
Constitution 2 Class Starship
Miranda Class Starship
Cheyenne Class Starships
Ambassador Class Starships
Constellation Class Starships
Centaur Class Starships
Challenger Class Starship
Springfield Class Starship
Nerendra Class Starships
Galaxy Class Starship
Shikar Class Starship
Georgiou Class Starship
Parliament Class Starship
Akira Class Starship
My thanks - always wondered which ships fought there.
A Short Trek, of Wolf 359 could be intriguing. But, I think I'd prefer one of the aftermath, a secret Romulan cloak and dagger one, where they steal and investigate Federation technology where Romulan Star Empire is weaker.
I see the editior accidentally used the Intrepid class Bellerophon for the montage rather than the Nebula class Bellerophon lol. I am doubting an Akira being there as that was constructed in response of the battle as one of the borg busters. The Parliament was also a later design being introduced around 2380.
I don't think that was an accident. Feels more like a little joke. At least I giggled a bit when I saw it.
In two of the sequences shown, I saw a constitution 2 type Dreadnought with three nacelles. Which one was that? When introducing the Constellation class you see the dreadnaught at 7:15
Like to see the battle breakdown of the Battle of Sector 001.
One thing with a Borg ship is not to send a few ships at a time but swarm it like in First Contact
Of course we want a full battle on screen.
When you look at the type of starships present at Wolf 359 you realize very quickly how woefully underprepared Starfleet was at the time for a major military threat. How complacent and comfortable they'd gotten with the Kingons being allies, the Romulans in hiding, and there being no real local power that could challenge the Federation. Then fast forward to the battle of Sector 001 and the caliber of ships there only like a decade later and the fact that by the time the Enterprise showed up Starfleet had actually succeeded in doing major damage to the Borg cube, it just took a final concentration of fire in the right place to finish it off. It starts to become clear that Q did humanity a huge favor in the long run by formally introducing them to the Borg.
Do one for The Battle of Sector 001
Fun video, Cap'n!
Great info, Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
Star Trek special effects guru's build and scrap ships for a single episode with no intention of saving them away for history, the fans say, "We'll take it from here."
I thought the ambassador class" excalibur" was mentioned in the battle was present before captian calhoun took its seat from the new frontier book series.
The U.S.S. Victory was a Constellation Class ship. It was actually shown in an episode featuring some of Geordi LaForge's back story.
I'm not sure about it's being at the battle. But I just lack info as far as that's concerned. But it positively was a Constellation class starship.😊
There was no Galaxy-class Starship at Wolf 359.
In every single on-screen visual from Star Trek we've had of the battle and the aftermath, one has never been depicted. And they would have depicted it, just to show how nasty the Borg were.
And also, the timeline for the initial construction of Galaxy-class starships shows that the first of the next 3 after the Enterprise wouldn't have been finished in time for Wolf 359.
Accordinly Admiral Hanson was on board a Excelsior class Vessel, at the battle of Wolf 359.
I primarily don't like two things about starfleet ships:
- No proper connection to the secondary hull (like Oberth class), because: makes no sense
- redesign of previous classes (like Excelsior 1 and 2 class), because: makes no sense to me using an updated design decades later. Starfleet has always reinvented not reused. Successively upgrades like Excelsior B or Constitution B are fine and much more logical.
A number of these ships have some excellent Highlights…
2:30 Stabilo Class 😅😊
Keep in mind the Vesper class, is just a place holder for the Shangri la class.
Imagine if you were fighting multiple Borg cubes. That would be terrifying unless you were species 8472 or the Scimitar.
Lovely vid
Thank you!
I am still really good with not having a comprehensive list of ships or a complete canon battle. If that had been available at the outset it would have tied the hands (or at the least forced them to choose something they might not want to) when considering the story of Liam Shaw. Ambiguity can create the best future writing.
As far as i'm aware the Akira, Intrepid and parliament classes were all built post wolf 359. It is also doubtful that an akira class protototype was there and the defiant wasn't, because the 1st ship of the anti borg line of ships to reach prototype stage was the defiant. Then due to issues it was shelved until the dominion was encountered. The 1st of the anti borg classes enter service was either the sabre or steamrunner. I think it was sabre but cant remember for sure.
I think there is always going to be a bit of crossover when it comes to which survived. You have the one ship that managed to get away then the others who were abandoned then salvage and returned to duty.
So technically they did survive.
Endeavour is missing from the full list. Also, the Republic is quoted by Red Squad as a training ship that hasn't left the Terran system in decades, so unless they're mistaken, I cannot see how she was at Wolf 359.
I know that the real reason was for dramatic effect, but I never understood the in universe reason that a Miranda Class would have families on board. A Galaxy class was originally a floating city, and I always assumed that they were the first ones to do that.
I feel like that prior to Wolf 359 and prior to the Dominion War, that Star Fleet didn't really have a handle on efficiency when it came to Star Ship Construction. There were so many different Classes of ships, most of them outdated, and probably refitted more than once over the years. I doubt it was due to lack of funding, because of the number of different classes involved. Star Fleet obviously had resources to throw around on experimenting with different types of Ship Classes to serve different functions, but the fact that so many outdated ships were pressed into combat tells me that Star Fleet didn't really know how to consolidate their Fleet into a cohesive Military Force. They were obviously scrambling just to gather together enough bodies, so to speak, to throw at the Borg. Where as by the time of the Dominion War, they had learned their lessons.
TheAdmiral said the Klingons were sending ships
Starfleet lost 35 starships at Wolf 359
That would have been a single engagement from the Dominion War
Short trek of 359? 100%
Everybody forgets the unaltered Cross field class.
I love it when a plan comes togevah
Saudações , 💖 Love vídeo ⚓🔧🇧🇷🖖
Voyager class was armed to the hilt, but Captain Janeway was a wimp and wouldn't blow up her enemies
Did anyone watched DS9? Almost every major battle with the dimonion was by far more destructive for the federation than Wold359 ...
In "The Drumhead", I thought Norah Satie mentioned Starfleet and Klingon ships destroyed, IIRC. So maybe there were one or two Klingon ships which were part of the exchange program as seen in "A Matter of Honor". Klingons further away would be willing to fight but wouldn't make it in time.
I've always found it odd just how little the amount of ships there are in Star Trek. You would think there would be at tens of thousands of ships in the combine Federation fleet. It seems like there is only a max of 150 warships at any given time.
u have to remeber how big the federation is and the amount of ground or in this case space to cover is and at that time starfleed was mor on exploring the galaxy not fighting wars so the hsips would be usualy far out only a hand full of smaller ships would be around to patrol the intern areas of the federation that there even got 40 ships in the short amount of time together initself is a wonder sure most where older ships and not meant for combat but the time til the borg got there is also short and as was statet the federaration did ask the klingons for help that shows hoe desprete there where to get ships to that fight in time asweel so yeah there surely have more than 150 ships not warships tho remeber starfleet didnt do war till that time atleast there tryt to avoit wars if posible so there hatn o real warships to begin with ether too only ships that ocult handle a fight or defend themself against others but borg are spezial as we all know so thats my sence to that
I swear I saw a constitution class in the debris field
You did in the original episode
I seem to have noticed a ship similar to the defiant during the battle.
This might as well the the list of everyship that was destroyed at wolf 359
That could also work as a video title ;)
In the first episode in DS9 actually showed the battle as it happened.
I know they had to make it into an episode where they wouldn’t use. Unconventional means to deal with the borg . But I’ve always had the perfect scenario of how to deal with one board cube. You can pilot a starship remotely and that Starfleet has access to one of the most volatile and dangerous explosives known to man and it is a byproduct of the cell warp engine process, namely tri lithium you pack for five maybe six Miranda class or more starships full of this violent explosive you pilot them in a ring of death in a 360° view and ram them into the cube and detonate on impact this would discourage the Borg into leaving star fleet alone you don’t know how many obsolete starships they are going to pull out of mothballs plug in a giant remote control and ram into your vessel. I think it’s a perfect solution to the problem. You don’t have to worry about wasting personnel and solve the problem.
This video is longer than the battle.
i love 359 wolfs
It's my inderstanding that Princeton was not a kitbash but a scratch built model.
Picard hit them hard 🥶
The Chekhov wasn’t named for the character from the Original series, different spelling. It was replaced in dialogue by the Tolstoy when Shelby listed some of the wrecks in BoBW 2 to avoid confusion though as it’s pronounced the same.
People should check out the Wolf 359 Project for their reasoning behind an Akira (Kaneda) and Parliament being at the battle, and although Amasov made a log entry about the Borg it’s never established that his ship was at Wolf 359.
If i recall correctly it's implied(via recycled footage) USS Roosevelt is either a Miranda or Excelsior class as shown in Voy episode Unity which ex borg Riley was a crewmember of.
USS Endeavour and Captain Amasov were the sole survivors of Wolf 359!
"It is my opinion that the Borg are as close to pure evil as any race we've ever encountered."---Asamov's personal log (VOY: 'Scorpion').
TNG had the Endeavour taking part in Picard's blocade during the Klingon Civil War and being active in the Dominion War. Trek Central recognizes the Endeavour being at Wolf 359, and JTVFX has Asamov taking command of the fleet after Admiral Hansen's flagship (USS Auriga) was destroyed by the Borg Cube.
Its just a bloody shame the name Endeavour hasn't become a legacy ship. (Skaka, when the walls fell!)😅
Wolf 359 proved Q was Right the Federation had become arrogant by this point and thought The Borg while strong would still be able to be beaten using conventional tactics.
Hanson was a fool to ignore the basic threat that an assimilated Picard posed.
Luckily though the massacre gave the Federation the kick in the teeth to actually start building ships that could actually fight as well as explore.
So, my question is: what the hell was an Oberth class doing there? Were they trying to get the Borg to laugh themselves to death?
The Akira was made for the opening battle of first contact.
This has to be the worst depection of a space battle ever 😂
The Oberth class ship at the battle was actually called the USS Red Shirt.
Уeah, that class of ship was destroyed by one torpedo by a Bird Of Prey in Star Trek III and it was chosen to fight the Borg?
Surprised there was an Akira at W359....thought Akira, Saber, Defiant were built post-BOBW
I wonder if the Admiral separated from damage or evacuation as the battle moved along?