02.08.24 Edit: After being out for a week, RUclips manually reviewed this video as *unsuitable for monetisation* meaning 0 ads will play on this video and I will make $0 (despite putting 100+ hours into this project). RUclips is my primary source of income, so if you'd like to support the channel/me and help me bring you more content like this, please consider joining me on Patreon www.patreon.com/laytonicles 🧡 Or, if you'd like to tip me as a one off for this video, you can do so here www.paypal.com/paypalme/laytonicles (DM thank yous will be sent to all 🙏🏽) Let me know your thoughts on the video down below! I’ll be responding to all comments as usual! 🦝 If you want to see me respond to the time the internet called me a cxxn, you can find that here: ruclips.net/video/93dDD2LYWXw/видео.html 🛹 Me skateboarding (and overcoming depression) video here: ruclips.net/video/TMg7URY3avQ/видео.html 🆚 Kendrick X Drake analysis here: ruclips.net/video/5dDdXDwIUE0/видео.html - Layton 💛
A lot of people like to get under other people's skin. Even if they're not racist or sexist or homophobic, they might find what bothers you the most and talk sh-t. I've done it. My friends have done it. Family.
As an African American woman who grew up very much like Donald Glover the label of black affects everything! From who will be friends with you to who will enter romantic relationships with you. Not knowing how each person defined my blackness but each time having it be the wrong type of blackness for them. It still continues to this day!
Mmm. I get that. I've reached a point where I don't consider placating to people for acceptance. For lack of a better word, you vibe with who you vibe with - regardless of immutable characteristics.
I relate hard im Mexican American but we all come in different shades. To each sides I'm not one of them and I see this now with my neice who is dark skinned with curly hair and is more welcomed by the black community than the Mexican community since she also doesn't speak Spanish and was raised in FL.
Opposite. There was never any question of my blackness. Even when I was growing up with different interests from my peers I was still in the hood so there was never a question.
This is America, not black enough... too black, black on black crime.... oh I don't consider you black..... it'll get you down... but stay up. We got this.
It's something you have to claim for yourself and guard (your right to be a free-thinking individual) and f*** what anybody else says about it; especially, if it goes against the grain of how they think you are supposed to be. Once you allow yourself to be labelled, you're limited. People will project on you all they believe that label entails, good or bad. It's not your problem, it's about them and their perceptions. You're here to grow and evolve by your own standards, not someone else's. Don't let anyone put you in a limiting box unless you want to be there.
@@sepulcher8263 that is also true and he was going to be a brand deal between Nike and Sega but that didn't go through so he became an actual character and also he is inspired by Mayan culture as well
Also, let's be clear. Pharrell did all of this over a decade before Donald, Tyler, Drake, Cudi, Kanye and even Lupe. Haters couldn't talk sh|t about him because he was making hits for all your favorite artists.
I am a Black woman that has never questioned my “blackness”. I had a purple Mohawk in the 80’s. The style because I was a punk and purple because I loved Prince. lol. If you’re questioning someone’s Blackness, you’re a weirdo.
Exactly sis, I'm a goth probably the only black man going to shows where Darkwave and Goth Rock is played. Never questioned my "blackness" either. Other people did and living in the rural south it was usually white folks. Especially if they're redneck.
In my 40 plus years of life as a black man I learned your blackness will become clear when interacting with law enforcement job recruiters and random Karens...
As for me, i've always considered him black cause he is black, but he was different, but there are a lot of people like him and black people are not a monolith
The problem with this discussion is people like yourself not understanding that “black” has come to mean two things. The first is skin color which he always was. The second is culture. And no this isn’t with regard to nerdiness, Barrack Obama was nerdy and considered black. It’s about whether you embrace your blackness or pander to whiteness! I’d argue that not until Atlanta did we see Donald Glover do so. And sadly we continue to see him create art that devalues black women, I’m sure someone on this app has made videos about this, it’s an undeniable trend with him. While I think Dr Umar goes too far, he is correct that some black dudes try to purchase their way out of blackness by turning to non-black women and even worse, putting out media that makes life worse for our sisters.
What’s wild is like Donald says, on the surface Peter Parker is “black” af😂; he’s a kid from Queens whose uncle got shot in front of him and he’s being raised by his aunty, with whom they struggle to make ends meet. Not to mention his parents essentially abandoned him.
Biggest difference between eccentric black folks like the Donald’s/Tyler’s and Drake is that they’re fully self aware of their identity and don’t try to exude any kind of false identity. Yeah, they can code switch for appropriate situations, but they are still genuine. Drake seems to be fully UNaware of his own identity and how he believes he should present himself to the world. And the minute he gets called out on it, his sensitivity takes over making him even more blinded. Sad. I dig Drake. I just wish he’d be a little more self-aware of himself.
Have you ever been to Memphis? Why you think he makes videos here? He grew up here too. Y'all are just colorist and hating. Looking for any angle to sprout your unsolicited and unwanted opinion. Memphis harder than Cali. Period. Clothes are not an identity it's an expression and no you may not gatekeep expression because of a person's heritage or upbringing that you clearly know nothing about.
@@jarenfromvenus lol…he makes videos there cuz his DAD’s from there. Not him. Memphis isn’t his identity. He fux with more artists in Atlanta than anywhere else. Atlanta ain’t his identity. He tried to live in Cali, again not his identity, and now he’s bout to get blackballed from there. Nobody in Toronto is really messin with him. He did that to himself. Now he got nowhere to go. And who said anything about color or clothes? The video did, I didn’t. I’m talking about identity. Maybe you and the rest of his existing fans can help him.
@@pastense Bruh I’m not about to argue with you. You don’t know what a dual citizen is? People do grow up in two places. You can look that shit up right now he grew up in both. Whicho hatin ass.
Good vid! Glover’s a perfect example of how anyone who is a bit different is told he got to be gay or crazy. So much of the white / blackness trope always has been the most trivial aspects of us.
@@BettyAlexandriaPride i had the absolute pleasure of watching laytons work over the last like 6 years and the evolution has been nothing short of astounding. edit: it's actually been like 11 years. ive since aged like baby spinach (rotted)
@@LordSpinduh Lol Drakes father is from Memphis and is 100% black making Drake 50% black depending where you are in the world and in America he’d be considered a black man. Where are you getting the information that his father is mixed? If Drakes father was really mixed I think Drakes skin tone would look a lot like his sons Adonis.
Thing I do disagree with is the miss understanding of "Black Coded" characters are noted as Black coded not because they are more black than black characters but have qualities similar to black people in worlds where there are no or very few visible Black Characters. Piccolo being black isn't to over ride or replace Donald's Blackness it's more about how to find characters and figures to relate to in pop culture when there are no one that looks like you
I agree, he lost me a bit there. Like I get that to him it doesn't make sense, they're fictional characters with no race. But that doesn't mean their characteristics aren't assumed to be culturally Black, which is obviously what happens. I think the collective agreement that the character has traits that are usually attributed, in media, to Black people, regardless of whether they actually are is still valid for representation's sake.
You’re assuming that those characteristics are exclusively black…they’re not. You’re like that guy who wrote the letter to Donald saying he can’t play Spider-Man because he’s black. And think about why you need characters to look like you to be able to like/relate to them in the first place, that screens egotistical narrow mindedness.
No, it doesn't. Especially when the title characters look like all my friends if I dress up as one I get a slieu of comments saying I can't be them because I'm black or it doesn't look right. But I'm sure u knew things like this happen. Because of course you wouldn't make an accusatory comment like this without ALLL of the evidentiary support available to you being taken into account. @@Jesei1211
@@Jesei1211 "think about why you need characters to look like you to be able to like/relate to them"....imagine not reading the comments you're posting to or knowing what the term "black coded" means....Piccolo is fucking GREEN and black people still relate you've lost it....even if he wasnt green non-white people have had to relate themselves to white people for decades now, stop being a dumbass
I noticed when discussions about blackness or “not feeling black enough” are spoken about , black men’s experience is heavily focused on. The way black women are expected to “act black” is different than black men’s , I find it interesting, how gender can change what “blackness” looks like.
Nah the internet just helped to remind us that we’ve had a hand in every cool or innovative thing in American culture and that we don’t have to confine or relegate ourselves to just rap, r&b, sneakers and sports.
Speaking to the examples of FD talking about the hairlines, and kids race swapping cartoons are a taken a bit too seriously. Black people say a lot in jest and being half serious. Lots of it is inside jokes turned memes etc. I do think there is something to be said about how our culture of making everything jokes has been used to peer pressure people. However I believe the content creators in your examples are aware that they are playing on stereotypes, while the kids bullying Donald at school were not that self aware😂.
I agree, and I also don't think that kind of humor, peer pressure, or bullying is limited to Black Americans, but ours is portrayed in media more. I might just be biased because I am Black American though.
Exactly. F.D. and them were making jokes in jest about black men that not only date white women, but take every opportunity to put down black women while doing it. There's nothing inherently wrong with dating outside of your race, but using it as an excuse to put down black women makes you a target for jokes and becoming a meme. (And a trash person)
I'm black but my mom is white. Both my parents/families raised me as Black, around black people. I've never truly honestly had my Blackness questioned in real life. Not further than any black person can get their black card checked for liking scrabble or eating quinoa. It's all in jest. Good or bad, it's what we do, and it happens to most black people lol. I could never identify to heavily with CG or Drake because so much of their narrative was about proving they were black to black people and then negging us for not feeling accepted. Idk bro. I'm a lightskin biracial gay nerd and I got in 🤷🏽♂️ lol it's not my story.
@@kahlilbt well that's the thing though: you were raised around your people, so your blackcrystalization happened early and informed who you were immediately. this is what black people need to do if they want their kids to turn out okay with their identity but a lot of people don't do it. a lot of upper class black folk don't take the steps to make sure their kids remain connected to the community, absorbing culture, seeing themselves in others around them. so they wind up growing up with only white and asian people and people wonder why they don't feel comfortable around black folk. that said, neither donald nor drake have ever "negged" the black community for not feeling accepted, they simply talked about their struggles with that, which i think is perfectly fine and reasonable.
the title "rich wigga, poor wigga" i thing refeers to the Jay Z song "the story of OG" and I feel like chorus of the song is pretty much the message Donald is trying to give : no matter the "type" of black person you are, you're still face struggle regarding this aspect of your identity
EDIT : didnt see the part where you talked about "Story of OJ" in your video, but I believe my point stays relevent, The Donald glover episode has the same fatalist almost cynical tone to it as the Jay Z song. both the song and the episode are pointing out this status quo with a kind of despair.
Haha. Meanwhile nobody has an issue with whites gatekeeping whiteness (and they do). The dude isn't black - he is mixed race if that even means anything.
Good video, but it feels like a bit of a missed point to say that all we got from the Donald4Spiderman campaign was him wearing the pajamas in community when Brian Michael Bendis (one of the writers that created the Miles Morales character) has stated on record that campaign was one of the main contributing factors to the character. Literally without Donald Glover we wouldn't have Miles Morales as we know him. I also feel that's why his second cameo in Into the Spiderverse is so significant because the Miles we know had his moment of tragedy in seeing his uncle Aaron, the prowler, die and Donald is cast as a "different prowler" but still playing the same character. The whole thing of Spider-man could be anybody has always been there, just now its the center of the story in some cases.
I did not expect this video to hit the core of my being so much. I resonate with so much that has been said, myself being a 'modern' Moroccan living in the Netherlands. It's crazy seeing this video, because it makes me realise that I'm not the only one going through these feelings and situations. Amazing video, dude
Interesting video. I appreciate a lot of your perspectives and how you presented your ideas especially as a black man growing up in the UK who wasn't into sole "black stuff". That being said I do believe that there is a value to gatekeeping "Blackness". I think that finding community within a group that shares your experience while living in an society where you are a "minority". The ability to control your cultural productions and who gets to participate and document the history of said productions. In these groups, people can find physical safety by having spaces where you can gather and express yourself freely. This isn’t to exclude those of us who are into comics (myself), like rock (which is a black cultural production) or any other number of things that may fall outside what it is to be black.
But on a positive: I agree with you on accepting, validating and encouraging people to follow their interests and passions without judgement of whether or not it is considered “Black”
I feel like a missing element is this is very American coded... we have many Black ethnicities and subcultures here... and yes... our "upper class" and non-stereotypical community members are ignored and underrepresented in media and art. I knew guys like him in high school in classes where the majority of us were black, Black, proud and high performing students. The first time I saw myself in media was when Issa Rae had her "Misadventures of an Awkward Black Girl" web series online in the 2010s... in my late 20s. I was called "white" bc of how I spoke... many elements are hundreds of years in the making- not new... our language and music and foods being the oldest... when we tell someone they are not Black, its usually because they espouse antiblack sentiments... and it's saying something specific that isn't and doesn't *need* to be understood by people who dont know or understand it. Nuance matters. I'm curious to know what this looks like in the UK...? Germany? Brazil? South America? And you miss the mark speaking on our culture(s)...
THIIIISSSSS. Being Black in America before the advent of the internet and social media was DIFFERENT and that’s precisely when Tyler the Creator and Donald came of age. There were so many questionable takes in this vid that are a direct result of his lack of knowledge and experience with Black Americans.
I love this video, excellent work, and I really identified as someone who has been called Childish Gambino by their family for years...but an aside: C__onery is not a measure of blackness. It's an American reference to black people who hate black people and use their ability to tear down black people to elevate themselves with white people. Candace Owens is goofy. But Candace Owens is labeled a c__n because she calls black people drug addicts and defended the murder of George Floyd. Sometimes a racial term is a measure specifically of how much black people sabotage other black people, not how black they are. Also... FD Signifier has a video where he explains how important it is to normalize interracial dating in the black community. And he's not criticizing black men dating white women in that clip, he's criticizing black men who discriminate against women who aren't white. That's all, again, I subscribed and this is a brilliant video.
Agreed. When F.D. comments on how black women dating white women, he's fine and actually onboard with it. It's when black men date white women to the detriment of black *women* because at least here in the states, it isn't uncommon for some black men to act (and speak) like black women are beneath them; that dating and marrying white women is something to aspire to. I really enjoyed this video, and would encourage Layton to look at F.D.s video on the subject, and not just features to learn more of what I'm talking about. That absolutely needs to be something to remain mindful of.
You’re definitely right on how the term c-n originated and how it *should* be used. But in my 40 years of living I’ve heard it more so used as a pejorative for “square”, less “scary” blacks who fit in with or are a lil more palatable for the white majority(but not necessarily trying to be) or blacks who are simply trying to climb up the socio-economical ladder and fit within those ranks. Can’t count how many times Ive heard other lackadaisical black co workers call our OTHER black co workers a c-n, simply for doing their job, possessing a professional demeanor, taking their job “too seriously”, etc…and not even in a “Yes, Massa” type of way. Just a way that anyone who takes their job seriously would do. Ive also seen that word projected on blacks who talk “white” or share conservative political views. None of those things come close to “🦝 ing” to me. I think alot of folks who use that word don’t understand the nuance of it.
As a mixed race person, I have definitely experienced not feeling Black enough, and having to "perform" my race, while still being othered my whole life by white people. The amount of people who've said to me "You're not really black though" either as an excluding statement, or sometimes even as a kinda backwards compliment, really clashes with the amount of times I've been called the n-word or profiled by police/security "Too black for the white kids, and too white for the blacks" - Earl Sweatshirt (edit- Just seen that you put Tyler quoting Earl in this video :D ) (Piccolo is Black though)
Just makes me think of a friend of mine. His own family used to make fun of him ALL the time saying he is too white because he "talked white" and some.interests like music. Today the blackcent he puts on is so thick it makes me cringe with how inauthentic it is.
Pretty good video. I do think there were parts of the video where you not seeing the other side of the limited how nuanced this discussion was but overall, you hit a lot of valid points.
In the past I’ve watched a decent amount of F.D. Signifier’s content and iirc he argues that there’s a certain group of black guys that exclusively date white women because of their disdain for black women. Men in this group tend to believe that black women are inherently aggressive, disagreeable, and masculine so they’ll come to the conclusion that it is better to date outside of the race. An implicit part of that belief is the prescriptive definition of being black outlined in this video. I believe f.d.’s point is that black guys that don’t date black women may not necessarily harbor this sentiment but it is indicative. That said, I do find the whole hairline thing kinda dubious and ironic af considering who is saying it.
The hairline thing is a meme in the community because it has symbolizes a reaction to black culture specifically barber shops and hair care. Also Ironic how? FD keeps his locs pretty well maintained.
People, especially black people, need to learn that being black isn’t this broad stroke. There are many types of black people and that we aren’t limited to the negative stereotypes that, for some reason, we hate but constantly keep to confirm our blackness. Colorism and elitism in our community is truly sickening.
At 19, I've always struggled with my black identity, also growing up being near the only black kid In class. Gambino was a light for me, as well as Tyler the Creator. As a kid, there were times I was perceived as the "cool black guy" stereotype, which shattered expectations Because I'm black I knew how to rap and play basketball. I suck at basketball. I'm a dork, I wear loud patterned shirts and graphic tees. I don't know how to play cards at the cookout, I talk about movies and games. I listen to Metal and Emo. I'm black, but feel as though I "act white". Ever since graduating HS, this mindset went away little by, but still feel I don't fit In. Didn't help to see the flack Gambino got too for being "anti-black"
As someone who grew up connecting to Donald Glover, who was also called whitewashed, and still enjoys “white music" I agree that there is no way to "act black”. HOWEVER, in recent years, I have grown to realise some of Donald Glover’s questionable behaviours, (possibly stemming from his rejection from black women, which seems he still hasn't gotten over) such as his aggressive portrayals of darkskin women in Atlanta, being turned on by getting called the n-word by white girls and his love for “black girls of every culture” but not actual black girls (like wtf does that even mean). There's a line between not conforming to black stereotypes and having internalised racism. Idk about Donald but personally, I found more confidence and love for my blackness through loving the black women around me.
I’ll never forget that episode of regular show he was in and everyone was goin crazy sayin “childish gambino” was in it and I go to google thinkin “WHO” and I was completely shocked to see the Derrick comedy guy 😅
I dunno...i think there is a huge swath of 80s and 90s stars that predate any of this Morgan Freeman Bill Dee Williams Carl Weathers Idris Elba Denzel Washington They werent the Renaissance men that Donald is...but I feel saying popular figures that transcended "black coded"
I think the ones you mentioned are more grounded where as Donald was more nerdy/anxious and also being in the rap world exposes that side of him to a lot of criticism. Also I think Denzel is very black like barbershop uncle black 😂
@MrSipho1 The funny thing is when you look at Denzel, he is a theatre man. Now when you think about black culture theatre and drama class don't come to mind.
Layton, I love this! As a 40yo+ black, racially “dismorphic” 😂, female, I feel like your entire analysis is spot on. I’ve definitely been accused of “talking too white”- (which I never understood) until I was out of High School- all for naught. And I’ve constantly gone through arbitrary screening/ scrutiny sessions (Rich Wigga, Poor Wigga) all for naught… I’m glad that this rhetoric seems to have died down more recently, bc it’s a huge hinderance to progress- especially for a group that’s more oppressed than any other. I sincerely hope that this spirit of acceptance continues. You’re pure gold! Thanks soooooo much for doing this!
Respectfully, I have to say your takeaway from those clips of Olay and Friends and Waving the Red Flag is bad faith. For one thing, the hairline thing should be goofy, considering it's a joke. But more importantly than that, a lot of what you're pontificating in this essay, for example ostracizing black people for having eclectic interests or dating interracially is bad, are views shared by the people you're criticizing. This is reflected both on the individual social media of those creators, their personal lives, and across various content they've created. In particular, I take issue with the misrepresentation of FD, Olay, Foreign, Conscious, Rebecca, & Gabrielle as pejoratively labeling people an Uncle Tom, or 🦝 simply for having a different opinion than "black people". This is invalid. The context is clear that those people they are referring to engage in antiblackness, which deserves absenting & scrutiny. The video you chopped up was about how the ruling against Affirmative Action will have negative, racist ramifications for black people in America. And Aba & Preach have been known to disparage & lie on black women, for jokes. They don't deserve the cover you're providing. Those creators you're downing speak often of how their views are not necessarily shared by a great many black people, nor are their audiences primarily black people despite the work they do for our communities. Your words will be weaponized against those people by bad actors looking to validate their biases against people who make that abolitionist content from a black lense. It's irresponsible. This is the first time my algorithm has recommended you. I very much liked your video and agreed with most of your observations, up until this tangent towards the end. You should consider reaching out to those creators directly because I suspect you have more in common with them than your edit implies.
Imo out of FD, Olay, Foreign, Conscious, Rebecca, & Gabrielle I am only familiar with FD but he falls into the trap of talking about people engaging in antiblackness but he himself then does the things this video highlights in the process from what I have seen in the past. "Aba & Preach have been known to disparage & lie on black women, for jokes." They joke on everyone they don't specifically go after black women they are comedians this isn't true.
@@OdessaSenpai What do you mean by "does the things"? Are you saying FD is being antiblack by talking about people cooning? Cuz that doesn't make sense. I didn't say Aba & Preach specifically go after black women, but them mistreating other groups of people is not a defense for lying on and stereotyping black women under a very specific lense of misogynoir.
@@OdessaSenpaiNot to say FD hasn’t had some bad takes, but what is some of the antiblackness you’re speaking of? And i can’t say I’m very versed on them, but whenever Aba & Preach would come up on my timeline they were constantly harping on black women, POC women, or trans women. Whether that was just to get engagement or what have you, they still participated in very anti-black and anti-social discussions that they profit off of those who wish to throw negativity on those communities
@charlestaylorco8713 aba and preaches latest video shows what I am talking about, being critical of black people doesn't equate to anti blackness it's just Having high standards for them. For FD I would really have to dig because this was a couple years ago when I realized the trend/talking points he would engage in and I unsubscribed from him.
I was captivated by your video about Donald Glover and his early struggles in finding where he fits in the ever evolving cultural universe of being Black In America. I have to be honest though, I will be 65 years old early next year, I was born and raised in Compton, California in the beginning of the early 1960's. I was Donald Glover before Donald Glover. And I'm the child of Black Parents. See, being in my 60's now I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing new under the Sun. I find it fascinating that the current generations of the past two decades are just amazed that it's just so surprising and compelling to find Black people like Donald Glover. But, I must make my comment about his life and mine very transparent, we both grew up in the United States Of America. And here in America, well it has been a struggle. I have endured, and have raised two sons and I am a grandfather. I've also learned that I am much more than the sum of my parts and I know Donald Glover has learned that as well.
nahh you take that shit somewhere else. shadow is absolutely an alt black dude with the tuffest hands on the block because he had to fight 🥷🏿's on the regular growing up and now he's cocky about it.
In America “black” has two separate meanings, one denotes skin color, the other denotes culture. So if your parents are Nigerian or you grew up immersed in white suburban culture then if a person is commenting on you not being “black” that’s what they are saying. As hurtful as that is. You have the race but not the culture. I’m sure it’s the same for Nigerians raised in America that visit their parents home. Their family knows they are Nigerian but culturally… somethings different.
same thing with Caribbean descendants , I got called a white woman because I talk with an Australian accent, everything black I was questioned about it or being told I have no clue on black subjects, which makes me even feel a guilt to claim my parents culture. I personally feel I don't belong anywhere but if I see this out loud around black people they will scream I am wrong and say I think I'm better than them 🙄
@@beeisforbianca6616unless you rejected you parents culture there's no guilt in claiming it, and blackness is larger than "American blackness" , they don't have the monopoly of trauma from white supremacy and the slave trade and the culture that comes from that. On the contrary, a lot of American black culture comes from immigrants.
@grandsome1 the comment began, "in America." I don't understand the "monopoly on trauma..." point. I've recently heard quite a bit of discourse around non-american "black" people not identifying as black, but by nationality/ethnicity. How relevant are the expectations of "black" culture outside of America?
@@XeniasWorld There has been discourse that black people who aren't of American slave descent aren't black and can't use the n-word. It's a fringe idea, but it comes from the position of privilege of being American that allows one to simply ignore and dismiss foreign cultures, people outside of America don't have the luxury of ignoring American culture given its hegemony, nor they can ignore the culture of their neighbours and colonizers and for some of their colonies. There is often a sense of insularism and a lack of historical knowledge in American black culture discourse as if black Americans were the only ones whose ancestors got shipped out of Africa enslaved or the only ones who had to suffer racism when American racism was often the blueprint of many regimes subjugation of minorities and other black people. White people outside of America model their whiteness on American witness, and victimise PoC based on American racism, which forces them to also look to America to find some of the tools to combat it. In short like I said, Americans have the luxury to ignore the world but the world does not have the luxury to ignore the Americans.
One of the odd things about this "whiteness is blankness" is that it's VERY Western and, previously to the past 7-10 years, we'd call it "grey" or "staticky". It's "the background", but, since it race is such a hot button thing and always at the forefront of some people's mind, that's what they see and who are the predominant race in the West? White people. And "blackness" is about a specific sub-culture in the US, which would have a different label in other countries, so there's an implicit association because of who we see using "whiteness" to mean "the background culture". Then there are the naive people who think "white people have no culture" because they're so subsumed in it that they have become the embodiment of "not seeing the forest for the trees" (more aptly reversing trees and forest though).
Let’s first acknowledge that America Black is a whole different thing on its own, especially black people that lives in the southern states. Gambino was born in Cali and his parents are from there but later moved to Georgia a southern state and they lived in Atlanta metro area which is one of the blackest places to be. And for the last 10 years are so, we are starting to realize that there are different ways of being black in America and the Childish Gambinos,the Tyler the Creators, the Kid Cudis & etc are what we now call “Alternative Black” the ones that participate in the non traditional/typical/ general/stereotypical things that black people participate in. But in the end they are still black in America. They still have black families, they know all of the black cultural traditions, language, and references internally, unlike Drake who don’t know and wasn’t around those cultures references. So yes he is BLACK.
What made this episode amazing is that it represented figuratively what the plight of a black man who doesn’t culturally appeal to black culture will undergo. A council is always there evaluating and judging your “blackness”, a term forced upon us by the colonizer might I add. So Mr. Glover is among the many that had/has to go through being “black enough” for the council which is society, which can be black culture.
The only racism my friends have ever discussed experiencing was from other black girls telling them they talked/acted/dressed "white". Listened to "white people" music. Just dumbasses.
What cracks me up is it seems like Donald thinks he's the only one who went through this and he ISNT. I have a year on him and went through all of this but mainly because I'm an army brat. But I didn't go through a crisis like he seemed to. I knew I'm black...I've just been exposed to way more cultures than even the average white person....nothing bad. Just life
Some black people I've met have been pleasantly surprised at what I've listened to, drank, ate, i got fist bumped by a stranger for having a grape KA lmao
The guy in the episode of Atlanta reminds me of my son .his mom is black but he looks straight up Irish lol. Red hair and all . As a single dad who’s happens to be white with two mixed kids one who white passing and one who’s not this is super relevant to me.
Using the prescriptive or the descriptive way is not really a problem (although for practicality reasons, I believe the descriptive way is much easier and clearer!) The problem is the defensiveness, outrage, emotion that people have around the topic. Race is an interesting characteristic of human beings and I don't think we should shy away talking about it (especially in a curious way!), but in the end what matters is what's in someone's head, what they do, and how they treat other people. This was as always a super well-made and entertaining video! It helped me understand how much importance this topic has in the black community.-Yeah, I bet also in other groups, but perhaps I never really thought about it too much. I am of Chinese descent, with 3rd generation Chinese Indonesian parents. I was born up and grew up in Germany, spoke German as my first language (the only Asian in my class), but have lost fluency over the years as I moved to the States, Indonesia, Singapore, and now Canada. What race am I? I'm still Chinese, I bet a genetic test would prove that lol, though I don't speak the language and only follow its most basic customs. But that's never what made me feel like an outcast. If I ever felt like one, it's that I didn't fit in as a rather extreme introvert, and always felt a bit weird. Nothing to do with race :) Thanks for the video! It saved me from a frustrating afternoon of moving my video files haha
Agree on descriptive being clearer. My only issue with the prescriptive way is that it's often rooted in stereotypes, then used to exclude people outside of the mould. Agree! The internal qualities of character are more important than the outer. Appreciate you sharing your backstory! And glad the video helped alleviate the annoyance of file moving, ha!
As a lightskin fully black dude who started in the suburbs and is now in the hood 😂 ive went through what aaron did, both my parents black, but i remember when my parents called me and my siblings "squares", and i was like "we were inner city kids, you guys went to pains stacking efforts to put us around these psuedo racist kids and teachers so we had to adapt." I got in trouble safe to say back then, but i can attest, this is just the a subsector of the age old "Nature vs. Nurture", I had a mix of early childhood black & late childhood white nurturing (culturally), but my nature is solidly black. So i can present myself as culturally "white" and code switch really good, give people my best "good boy" in order to get in the door, but my mind is always thinking culturally "black", it just is what it is, theyre both genuinely me, but you do realistically have to heighten certain aspects of yourself depending on your environment in order to effectively do what you need to do. Some hard core black traditionalist especially those in street culture, may see it as fake. But when has adapating to best utilize your environment ever been "fake"??? Humans have survived abd conquered the world doing this, they themselves utilize the hood, street and gang culture to do so, everyone is adapating by default whether they want to or not. Simply because i know how to traverse the spectrum freely without the confines of inner or outer conflict and social/peer pressure is to my advantage, and will only rub those incapable the wrong way, in my opinion anyway.
I’m so glad Someone is having this conversation because we’ve been doing this to each other for years. We don’t realize how we put each other down when we do this
Ha! Hope you enjoy :) I'm jealous. I've been so focused on getting this video out-- I can finally listen to Bando Stone now !! Will report back [salutes] Thank you! Had to trim the bird's nest eventually :')
I love you and so glad you make interesting and thought provoking content! You’ve got so many commentary channels recycling the same message over and over and everyone agreeing with each other acting like they’ve actually contributed something new.
Damn. I was 11 when the spiderman thing happened. I actually kind of got into nerd stuff around the same time Miles Morales was coming about and genuinely liked him. I think what happened to him sounds horrible and is inexcusable. The debate about race swapping characters can be had without hostility and blaming a guy that has nothing to do with the hiring decision.
It can in proper communities, yeah, but it seems no drama goes by without the dregs of people reducing it to the lowest common denominator, ugliest attacks and accusations, regardless of race, sex, politics, or any other characteristic.
@@mercaius. People are tribal and when you hyper focus on race in a society that has had intense racial hostility in its past - things will get ugly fast. I’m so discouraged at what the current race discussion looks like - we’ve went backwards
@@brianmeen2158the way I see it, "being black" is policed from the inside, but it was definitely imposed from the outside. The people on top can't maintain what they have without a broken working class.
Miles Morales is a shame because of what Marvel has done with him. They cheapen his character with the Spiderverse thing (in my opinion) and they hurt him badly when they tokenize the crap out of him by making him an alt for like every superhero (on top of the push to outright replace Peter Parker rather than making an addition which started happening LATER in Miles' existence)
@@freedomandguns3231 Miles was never meant to or being pushed to replace Peter and I don't really understand how the Spider-Verse cheapens his existence at all? The point of the Spider-Verse is just to show that anyone can be Spider-Man which is both why Miles exists and what Stan Lee explicitly wanted when he created Spider-Man. I think there's even a direct quote of him saying if he created Spider-Man in the modern day he probably would've been black or something else to represent how it doesn't really matter who is wearing the mask. I also don't really understand what you mean with the tokenization thing. Marvel has never really used Miles as just a diversity trophy or anything like they have with other characters (created after his success) outside of just having the character display pride in his identity as a half black, half Latino man. Miles at worst is written to be basically just race swapped Peter but usually he's just kind of a normal guy. I don't get why you're acting like Marvel treats the character terribly when (outside of the shitty games) Miles has basically been having a renaissance over the past six years while Peter is just forced to never grow or develop past the 2000s.
Watching this video made me realize that honestly, EVERY group gatekeeps being a member of that group. You can start from the broadest groups and go down; men gatekeep being men, women gatekeep being women, Black folks gatekeep being Black, Black MEN will gatekeep being Black men, LGBT folks will gatekeep being LGBT, Spider people will gatekeep being Spider people. Unfortunately, i think there are some groups who are affected far worse. Individuals can still be affected terribly regardless of group but i think some groups or minorities suffer as a whole far worse than others, and sadly that's oppression that comes from WITHIN, not without. I wonder if there is any hard, objective data on what affects people worse, oppression from outside the groups they identify with or oppression from within those groups.
It’s definitely from with out in the situations of discrimination, because most of the time this gatekeeping of discriminated groups within is a form of trying to keep itself safe and give a place to be within the dominant oppressive society. No the forms of gatekeeping aren’t always pro-social and good for the community but in this example the fear of being “white” is the fear of losing customs and/or being infiltrated by the oppressive dominate culture in such as way that is detrimental to the black community(as has happened time and time again) And ofc kids (and even adults) don’t always fully understand that as they’re growing up, which leads to in-group, out-group bullying, which is something we must constantly work on throughout all communities.
I’m am not black, i am not an american.. But growing-up in eastern europe - this is really relatable. Thank to your essay - i finally realized why Donald’s art is so meaningful to me, thank you.
Being black complicates things when you want to be into “non black” interests or interests you don’t associate to black people, or generally just don’t have personality traits that one would associate with being black. you have to have people, your own people mind you, calling you “white” and then white people expecting you to exhibit the stereotypes of a black man when your true personality and the way you see yourself is different. It shouldn’t be such an issue but it is. It’s frustrating, black people are not a monolith, there are black people with the same traits as white people and that’s just how it is. The label of “black” is something you can’t change, and it births a frustrating existence and daily struggle
Be interesting to hear your perspective on the drake Kendrick beef and how Drake’s blackness or perceived lack thereof played a role. I agree with lots of what you said but also think there are some nuances that you may be missing out on due to not being raised in America possibly. I enjoyed the video tho !
I agree was thinking like I like this but there's definitely an influence American colonialism has across the world clearly lol but living under it in America me being from the south and the plantations my family were slaves on is now a tourist attraction in a very racist state in one of if not the most racist country in the world even supporting and funding a genocide of the Palestinians it definitely gives a special flavor to our struggle and perspectives in this system
Nah for sure, I think the distinction between “black” and American black is where a lot of people get lost. Like obviously someone from Somalia is “black” but they would have a tough time telling u about soul food and r&b lol. And sadly u see a lot of those cultures, even dark skinned ones, hating on black Americans and using racist narratives against them. It’s truly sad how divided this world has become bc of a European invention of race.
Awesome video 🤙🏾 I could go in for paragraphs on what it was like growing up a lil biracial dude but I’d rather share something that my mom always told me: “You can’t act a color.”
You could swap out the word "black" for "gay", update the examples, and otherwise more or less preserve the whole script. My heart breaks for all those Little Richard/Sylvester/Stromaë types out there who get double dipped
Same thing with gender identity. “Oh you don’t like dresses? That must mean you’re not fully/at all female”. Um… what? As Layton so beautifully put it, let’s “expand the circumference” of what an identity marker can include.
@Renfair333 You mean re-expand it, surely. Masculinity, femininity, "blackness", and a ton of other social institutions were questioned and shaken up in the 70s and 80s. By modern standards, David Lee Roth and Alice Cooper were trans, and Whitney Houston wasn't sufficiently black enough. I'm not sure why it didn't all stick. Did the Boomers fix it only for GenX to ruin it? Was it fine when it was playful, but when shirking social norms became an identity and identity became political we undid all that playfulness?
@@johnindigo5477 You've never once been told you're not properly gay for not liking a certain thing enough or having the correct interests or voting the correct way or dressing the correct way or... what-have-you? There are massive pressures in gay spaces to conform.
Just stumbled over this video. Great work🖤 thanks for taking the time. I’m born and raised in Germany, and work in a UK/US based company. With plenty of family in English speaking countries. In the English world I exist, I’m a bi-racial woman. You should see the look in my (German speaking) friends eyes, when I used the 121 translation to introduce myself 😅 I pushed some boundaries to figure out, how to explain an English native my issue as a German native, not as a daughter of a black man, with the word “race”. And it’s crazy that my upbringing in a country like Germany taught me to see a human being in a certain -human- way, not the history of the “race” of my father. When I saw the episode of Atlanta a few years ago, I found it quite funny, since I fall into a rabbit whole, a few days before, called “one drop rule”. Thanks again for your time🖤
The hairline thing is kinda true though ngl lol. Not sure you’d understand every nuance of our culture from across the pond or care to understand such a niche observation whilst cosplaying Yuseke Urameshi
Yea I felt like he was on point for most of the video but the hairline and the piccolo stuff kinda undermined his message. I get the sense he thinks what Kendrick did to Drake on not like us was some negative form of black gatekeeping or something
Oh look, a black person doing exactly what he said in the video. “You don’t get it, you’re not black enough”. Did you just watch the entire video on mute lmao
@@dreamgood130I’m white and maybe dont have the perspective to understand but im interested on what your take of what Kendrick did to Drake is. I don’t necessarily have an opinion with him “revoking his black card” but I’d like to understand how it’s different than the problems portrayed in the video if you don’t mind explaining.
Donald Glover is black, and has been. He was willing to make jokes at the expense of his race and that’s what separated him. There are plenty alternative, creative, weird, literate, black people. We are not a monolith and never have been. But through his stand up and other interviews, he has also contributed to making that space personally. He has doubted the existence of “weird black girls” as if they weren’t a part of his Fanbase. This isn’t the only person like this and won’t be the last. I cannot speak to him as a person in his current space, but in the 2010s.
As a mixed straight person who looks white and queer I really vibe with this video, there are so many expectations on these things and so much ridiculous gatekeeping it starts to infringe on our ability to connect and support each other. I’m fortunate the color of my skin means I don’t face the same hardships my father did but it also means I’m living in this weird middle ground that leaves me isolated from all parties. I can understand these experiences but always as an outsider, people write off what you have to say if you’re standing outside the gate the built. But at the same time I do understand why that gate is there, I just wonder if it does more harm in excluding people who don’t fit into either strictly defined box.
Honestly when I first came across Childish Gambino/Donald it was like….a relief almost? Like finally some representation for people like me that enjoyed rap and couldn’t relate to the gangster aesthetic. Definitely played a part in my artistry and I love him for it. He’s always been black to me ❤
White being "blankness" basically means the universality of whiteness has carried on into the progressive worldview. White stands for the "universal," the unambiguated default onto which any other race can be swapped in, while the reverse is disallowed, since the other races are merely "particular" identities. The same largely holds for "man" vs "woman", where man is universal and woman is particular. A man is the default (think "Mankind," Tolkien's the "Race of Men," etc.), and so a man can be swapped out for a woman unproblematically (women can take on typically male sexual roles, work roles, etc). But the reverse is generally untenable (a man swapping in for a woman at a daycare is not the same as a woman swapping roles with a CEO). The particular can stand in for the universal, but the universal can't stand in for the particular. Or, put differently, the alternative can stand in for the default/blank slate, but the default cannot stand in for the alternative.
Gosh I love this channel. 51 year old white dude and I'm still learning more about the concept and reality of blackness. Helps me understand what people are going through. Thanks.
I'm about halfway through the video and just feel the need to say thank you. What a great discussion. Where does this discussion happen? On Layton Observes. Love the new intro thingeee. Well done thank you. Now, back to your dad.
Drake rapped in young money, was rapping about things closer to the stereotypical club and rich black guy, dated Rhianna, had black people in his music videos earlier, and worked the rap scene in Houston and Atlanta. Donald started with a comedy sketch show with white guys, did standup to predominantly white audiences, rapped fast about stereotypically white shock jock stuff, before starting as one of 2 black people on a lower budget cable TV show, etc... and I'll throw in that he wasnt seen dating black women lol. I would say Donald became black with Atlanta and when he made a show centered around black people's odd lives in Atlanta. It's not crazy to think drake had more culture credit.
all cultures have internally prescribed ways of being. the way those are shaped are relative to the hegemonic cultures and the ways one culture relates to them. i think the intracultural policing of blackness is based more on what it means to be a certain flavor of non-white vs anything inherent to the culture or its constituents.
Glover and JayZ are saying the same thing. Saying it from different perspectives, formative experiences, and education levels. But saying the same thing. Everything is shaped by the larger culture~especially the subculture of “black culture”. I’m genX and while the markers change, the black culture “who’s black” has always been a thing. If you swap out “black culture” with “tribalism” it will make more sense and is an easier dynamic to explain…mostly because it raises us out of the fishbowl and places us at the level of concept. And “construct” At the concept and construct level we can see how it’s heavily influenced by the dominant culture through a more historical lens-everyone is in on it if Spider-Man has to be white.
41:41 that song is a millionaire talking to his working class audience saying "ignore my money, I'm just like you! Honest >:) " It's not bleak it is cynical n sneaky
I love your content I have been watching it for years. I truly appreciate it just like most of other viewers I hope things pick up for you & find a different platform that you can make more money from them RUclips.. they keep hating on your boy😂
Whoa! That's super warming to read :) Haha! True true. The thing is, I love RUclips. So I just want to make sure things can be sustainable for me, despite the inevitable hiccups :') I SHALL NOT BE DISSUADED! More content for years to come! Thank you so much for the tip and support, Chris 💛
That quote of Donald saying he doesn’t belong anywhere hit my soul. I have never belonged anywhere, I tried to be normal but it didn’t take. I’ve accepted that I’m a defective misfit toy, and oddly enough that was a very freeing realization.
I agreed with so many things you said here, but I still noticed such a difference between the black American experience and the black Australian experience, because although resonate with the frustration of people in my own race determining if I’m black enough, it’s nowhere near comparable to The entitled white Americans who have had anything to add to that conversation
I had an experience in 7th grade where a white kid who kinda dressed "black" or acted "black" walked up to me and said "your the whitest non white person ive ever met" and i was confused i was confused because ive never really thought about my ethnicity until that point and i was thinking "what does he mean? Im not white how do i act white" and since im dominican im in even in a bigger confusion am I even black? Am i hispanic? And im glad i could think about this but im mad that i have to because my whole life i just wanted to connect with people be apart of a group and im at a point in my life where im now wanted to be seen as "black" because of my background i grew up in a shitty apartment in brooklyn so i want people to know yeah im black im in struggle or whatever it means. And i know this is just another stage for culture and black culture and what it means but i hope one day that being black doesnt mean acting "black" and we could just be human. Im still in confusion while writing this but i hope you all get the gist of it. Thank you for making this video.
For a girl out here who is neurodivergent but white, I had struggled with the race conversation when I was young, because I had to constantly change who I am and be aware of how I am perceived so to me it seemed like a human problem not a race problem, which I guess now I do agree with to some extent but with more nuance than when I was child. Racism is a human problem and it is only one facet of how we judge and percieve others. I really enjoyed this video super interesting
Honestly, I understand you put 100hrs into this but this video wasn’t it. You completely glossed over the historical and societal contexts of Donald Glovers identity - descriptive vs prescriptive and how much a bigger impact colorism and being Black in a majority white sauce impacts someone’s identity-, impacts of institutional racism on both psychology and presentation, code switching, and the very reason why Black culture tends to relate more culturally than ethically in many regards. As a Black British person, though I see you got many things right, I don’t think you have enough historical context to truly speak about this heavy handed topic of “When Childish Gambino became Black”. I would recommend checking out FD Signifier and T1J (not just his zoom videos) and their video essays to get some more social and historical context regarding these issues. Also Kevin Samuels is wack, and it makes sense that Donald Glover brought his on as he seems to have some colorist and anti-Black sentiments in his dating history (may be a result of internalized racism).
02.08.24 Edit: After being out for a week, RUclips manually reviewed this video as *unsuitable for monetisation* meaning 0 ads will play on this video and I will make $0 (despite putting 100+ hours into this project). RUclips is my primary source of income, so if you'd like to support the channel/me and help me bring you more content like this, please consider joining me on Patreon www.patreon.com/laytonicles 🧡
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Let me know your thoughts on the video down below! I’ll be responding to all comments as usual!
🦝 If you want to see me respond to the time the internet called me a cxxn, you can find that here: ruclips.net/video/93dDD2LYWXw/видео.html
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- Layton 💛
Hey man, just wanna say your accent is your accent and you don't sound pretentious or snobby just for speaking. Good ass video btw.
If I were Donald Glover...the last thing I woukd ever want to watch...is an hour long video essay about my racial identity 😅
Like to day FD Signifier was joking- the guy in on the joke bottom right *had that hairline*
Now a days anime is cool when ppl use to get made fun of for watching which is crazy
A lot of people like to get under other people's skin. Even if they're not racist or sexist or homophobic, they might find what bothers you the most and talk sh-t. I've done it. My friends have done it. Family.
As an African American woman who grew up very much like Donald Glover the label of black affects everything! From who will be friends with you to who will enter romantic relationships with you. Not knowing how each person defined my blackness but each time having it be the wrong type of blackness for them. It still continues to this day!
Mmm. I get that. I've reached a point where I don't consider placating to people for acceptance. For lack of a better word, you vibe with who you vibe with - regardless of immutable characteristics.
@@LaytonObserves Robert Kegan would argue that this shows you have moved on in your development and are now mature enough for Self Authoring.
What’s this even mean?
I relate hard im Mexican American but we all come in different shades. To each sides I'm not one of them and I see this now with my neice who is dark skinned with curly hair and is more welcomed by the black community than the Mexican community since she also doesn't speak Spanish and was raised in FL.
Opposite. There was never any question of my blackness. Even when I was growing up with different interests from my peers I was still in the hood so there was never a question.
I don’t blame him for his earlier perception because he was being himself and everyone was telling him that being himself isn’t correct
He should just be himself (which is half and half) and ignore the ignorant mfers. The cool people will stick to you for being genuine.
@@The_Gallowglassbut he’s not half and half
I’m black & tired of dealing with this shit. It’s all about people’s thinking. Fuck, just let me be me. An individual.
Fr tho 💔
I felt this ❤
This is America, not black enough... too black, black on black crime.... oh I don't consider you black..... it'll get you down... but stay up. We got this.
It's something you have to claim for yourself and guard (your right to be a free-thinking individual) and f*** what anybody else says about it; especially, if it goes against the grain of how they think you are supposed to be. Once you allow yourself to be labelled, you're limited. People will project on you all they believe that label entails, good or bad. It's not your problem, it's about them and their perceptions. You're here to grow and evolve by your own standards, not someone else's. Don't let anyone put you in a limiting box unless you want to be there.
It’s too much talking about this. A whole world of things to learn in the world.
Piccolo and Knuckles are black and I stand on it.
Okay. you want Star
Piccolo is a Yoshi, clearly.
Stand on business. We've been saying Knuckles waa black since his creation!😂
I mean knuckles was Jamaican influenced and supposed to be called dredz.
@@sepulcher8263 that is also true and he was going to be a brand deal between Nike and Sega but that didn't go through so he became an actual character and also he is inspired by Mayan culture as well
Also, let's be clear. Pharrell did all of this over a decade before Donald, Tyler, Drake, Cudi, Kanye and even Lupe. Haters couldn't talk sh|t about him because he was making hits for all your favorite artists.
Pharrell actually embraced his Black American culture in a way that Donald still doesn't. Donald, like Drake, only uses it to make money.
I don’t think anyone’s claiming he didn’t do it first. NERD is the blueprint for all the artists you mentioned
And Outkast and the Jungle Brothers did it before them 😬… a long lineage of being outside the box
@@RadioKniveThis!
@@gabriellewrrenThis too!
I am a Black woman that has never questioned my “blackness”. I had a purple Mohawk in the 80’s. The style because I was a punk and purple because I loved Prince. lol. If you’re questioning someone’s Blackness, you’re a weirdo.
Exactly sis, I'm a goth probably the only black man going to shows where Darkwave and Goth Rock is played. Never questioned my "blackness" either. Other people did and living in the rural south it was usually white folks. Especially if they're redneck.
In my 40 plus years of life as a black man I learned your blackness will become clear when interacting with law enforcement job recruiters and random Karens...
This comment sums it up clearly
To you, probably lmao…
exactly especially in prison
So you think da man and dem raycist but I bet you also date white😂. This is always the case.
Thanks Dane Cook superfan!
As for me, i've always considered him black cause he is black, but he was different, but there are a lot of people like him and black people are not a monolith
THIS ⬆️
The problem with this discussion is people like yourself not understanding that “black” has come to mean two things. The first is skin color which he always was. The second is culture. And no this isn’t with regard to nerdiness, Barrack Obama was nerdy and considered black. It’s about whether you embrace your blackness or pander to whiteness! I’d argue that not until Atlanta did we see Donald Glover do so. And sadly we continue to see him create art that devalues black women, I’m sure someone on this app has made videos about this, it’s an undeniable trend with him. While I think Dr Umar goes too far, he is correct that some black dudes try to purchase their way out of blackness by turning to non-black women and even worse, putting out media that makes life worse for our sisters.
Also Donald Glover is with a non-black woman right now because he's said he doesn't fw black women .... @@jakestroll6518
@@jakestroll6518what qualifies as embracing blackness or pandering to whiteness? What did Donald glover do to 'pander to whiteness'?
What’s wild is like Donald says, on the surface Peter Parker is “black” af😂; he’s a kid from Queens whose uncle got shot in front of him and he’s being raised by his aunty, with whom they struggle to make ends meet. Not to mention his parents essentially abandoned him.
It all makes sense now. 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I can see why he hates drake, essentially a black mimic
Gay
Adult actor “the boy”
He is not a black mimic lol he’s far more talented and still acts to this day
@@user-ro8ru4wz2ogiven that Donald has dissed Drake now its topical
Yessss@@Hellxvixlett
Biggest difference between eccentric black folks like the Donald’s/Tyler’s and Drake is that they’re fully self aware of their identity and don’t try to exude any kind of false identity. Yeah, they can code switch for appropriate situations, but they are still genuine. Drake seems to be fully UNaware of his own identity and how he believes he should present himself to the world. And the minute he gets called out on it, his sensitivity takes over making him even more blinded. Sad. I dig Drake. I just wish he’d be a little more self-aware of himself.
Have you ever been to Memphis? Why you think he makes videos here? He grew up here too. Y'all are just colorist and hating. Looking for any angle to sprout your unsolicited and unwanted opinion. Memphis harder than Cali. Period. Clothes are not an identity it's an expression and no you may not gatekeep expression because of a person's heritage or upbringing that you clearly know nothing about.
@@jarenfromvenus lol…he makes videos there cuz his DAD’s from there. Not him. Memphis isn’t his identity. He fux with more artists in Atlanta than anywhere else. Atlanta ain’t his identity. He tried to live in Cali, again not his identity, and now he’s bout to get blackballed from there. Nobody in Toronto is really messin with him. He did that to himself. Now he got nowhere to go. And who said anything about color or clothes? The video did, I didn’t. I’m talking about identity. Maybe you and the rest of his existing fans can help him.
@@pastense Bruh I’m not about to argue with you. You don’t know what a dual citizen is? People do grow up in two places. You can look that shit up right now he grew up in both. Whicho hatin ass.
Memphis is a water drop in a bucket compared to all of Cali.
@@jamayil11 I’m from Cali…but Memphis is no slack my dude. They got the history of the whole Stax catalog. That’s way more than a “drop”
Good vid! Glover’s a perfect example of how anyone who is a bit different is told he got to be gay or crazy. So much of the white / blackness trope always has been the most trivial aspects of us.
babe wake up layton observed something
lmao, good to see you, Varman [bows in Japanese[
@@LaytonObserves just finished watching, absolutely amazing work. 🙌🏾
This is such a wholesome interaction.
@@BettyAlexandriaPride i had the absolute pleasure of watching laytons work over the last like 6 years and the evolution has been nothing short of astounding.
edit: it's actually been like 11 years. ive since aged like baby spinach (rotted)
Drake is 30% black and got his black card before Donald which objectively is kinda funny.
lol
I know you don’t like Drake but let’s be factual correct. Drake 50% black around the world and in America hed be considered Black
I don’t know about. He’s mostly black to anyone not in the African American community.
@@YoungGameChanger23Drake has a mixed father and a milk white mother
@@LordSpinduh Lol Drakes father is from Memphis and is 100% black making Drake 50% black depending where you are in the world and in America he’d be considered a black man. Where are you getting the information that his father is mixed? If Drakes father was really mixed I think Drakes skin tone would look a lot like his sons Adonis.
Thing I do disagree with is the miss understanding of "Black Coded" characters are noted as Black coded not because they are more black than black characters but have qualities similar to black people in worlds where there are no or very few visible Black Characters. Piccolo being black isn't to over ride or replace Donald's Blackness it's more about how to find characters and figures to relate to in pop culture when there are no one that looks like you
I agree, he lost me a bit there. Like I get that to him it doesn't make sense, they're fictional characters with no race. But that doesn't mean their characteristics aren't assumed to be culturally Black, which is obviously what happens. I think the collective agreement that the character has traits that are usually attributed, in media, to Black people, regardless of whether they actually are is still valid for representation's sake.
You’re assuming that those characteristics are exclusively black…they’re not. You’re like that guy who wrote the letter to Donald saying he can’t play Spider-Man because he’s black.
And think about why you need characters to look like you to be able to like/relate to them in the first place, that screens egotistical narrow mindedness.
No, it doesn't. Especially when the title characters look like all my friends if I dress up as one I get a slieu of comments saying I can't be them because I'm black or it doesn't look right. But I'm sure u knew things like this happen. Because of course you wouldn't make an accusatory comment like this without ALLL of the evidentiary support available to you being taken into account. @@Jesei1211
@@Jesei1211 "think about why you need characters to look like you to be able to like/relate to them"....imagine not reading the comments you're posting to or knowing what the term "black coded" means....Piccolo is fucking GREEN and black people still relate you've lost it....even if he wasnt green non-white people have had to relate themselves to white people for decades now, stop being a dumbass
What part of Piccolo is considered black? I'd love to know.
I noticed when discussions about blackness or “not feeling black enough” are spoken about , black men’s experience is heavily focused on. The way black women are expected to “act black” is different than black men’s , I find it interesting, how gender can change what “blackness” looks like.
Intersectionality be kicking people’s asses frfr
Now that you mention it, I don't hear much from black women on this topic outside of dating struggles.
Not in the mood to think up a comment of value, but I want to support your channel.
I appreciate the support all the same 🙏🏽
First! Does this count?
i think growing up with the internet allowed us to observe other cultures and pull things we deemed valuable.
Nah the internet just helped to remind us that we’ve had a hand in every cool or innovative thing in American culture and that we don’t have to confine or relegate ourselves to just rap, r&b, sneakers and sports.
@@CaptianBlackSwaggerhamburgers and Hotdogs are German. So you ain't create everything cool over there
Speaking to the examples of FD talking about the hairlines, and kids race swapping cartoons are a taken a bit too seriously. Black people say a lot in jest and being half serious. Lots of it is inside jokes turned memes etc.
I do think there is something to be said about how our culture of making everything jokes has been used to peer pressure people.
However I believe the content creators in your examples are aware that they are playing on stereotypes, while the kids bullying Donald at school were not that self aware😂.
I agree, and I also don't think that kind of humor, peer pressure, or bullying is limited to Black Americans, but ours is portrayed in media more. I might just be biased because I am Black American though.
They are jokes but that kind of sentiment is definitely used to isolate and ostracize other black folk. Whether they are meant to or not.
Exactly. F.D. and them were making jokes in jest about black men that not only date white women, but take every opportunity to put down black women while doing it. There's nothing inherently wrong with dating outside of your race, but using it as an excuse to put down black women makes you a target for jokes and becoming a meme. (And a trash person)
I'm black but my mom is white. Both my parents/families raised me as Black, around black people. I've never truly honestly had my Blackness questioned in real life. Not further than any black person can get their black card checked for liking scrabble or eating quinoa. It's all in jest. Good or bad, it's what we do, and it happens to most black people lol. I could never identify to heavily with CG or Drake because so much of their narrative was about proving they were black to black people and then negging us for not feeling accepted. Idk bro. I'm a lightskin biracial gay nerd and I got in 🤷🏽♂️ lol it's not my story.
@@kahlilbt well that's the thing though: you were raised around your people, so your blackcrystalization happened early and informed who you were immediately. this is what black people need to do if they want their kids to turn out okay with their identity but a lot of people don't do it. a lot of upper class black folk don't take the steps to make sure their kids remain connected to the community, absorbing culture, seeing themselves in others around them. so they wind up growing up with only white and asian people and people wonder why they don't feel comfortable around black folk.
that said, neither donald nor drake have ever "negged" the black community for not feeling accepted, they simply talked about their struggles with that, which i think is perfectly fine and reasonable.
the title "rich wigga, poor wigga" i thing refeers to the Jay Z song "the story of OG" and I feel like chorus of the song is pretty much the message Donald is trying to give : no matter the "type" of black person you are, you're still face struggle regarding this aspect of your identity
EDIT : didnt see the part where you talked about "Story of OJ" in your video, but I believe my point stays relevent, The Donald glover episode has the same fatalist almost cynical tone to it as the Jay Z song. both the song and the episode are pointing out this status quo with a kind of despair.
Atlanta is one of the best shows ever!
With you there! I'm currently getting back into it.
Gatekeeping being black. Wild...
Crabs in a bucket mentality
Personally I hate when the Asians gatekeep being Asian. It’s not fair. They’re like crabs in a bucket…
Haha. Meanwhile nobody has an issue with whites gatekeeping whiteness (and they do). The dude isn't black - he is mixed race if that even means anything.
You damn skippy
When fictional none black characters get the card but a real person doesn't because they are or act "too white" 😅
Good video, but it feels like a bit of a missed point to say that all we got from the Donald4Spiderman campaign was him wearing the pajamas in community when Brian Michael Bendis (one of the writers that created the Miles Morales character) has stated on record that campaign was one of the main contributing factors to the character. Literally without Donald Glover we wouldn't have Miles Morales as we know him. I also feel that's why his second cameo in Into the Spiderverse is so significant because the Miles we know had his moment of tragedy in seeing his uncle Aaron, the prowler, die and Donald is cast as a "different prowler" but still playing the same character. The whole thing of Spider-man could be anybody has always been there, just now its the center of the story in some cases.
I did not expect this video to hit the core of my being so much. I resonate with so much that has been said, myself being a 'modern' Moroccan living in the Netherlands. It's crazy seeing this video, because it makes me realise that I'm not the only one going through these feelings and situations. Amazing video, dude
Interesting video. I appreciate a lot of your perspectives and how you presented your ideas especially as a black man growing up in the UK who wasn't into sole "black stuff".
That being said I do believe that there is a value to gatekeeping "Blackness". I think that finding community within a group that shares your experience while living in an society where you are a "minority". The ability to control your cultural productions and who gets to participate and document the history of said productions. In these groups, people can find physical safety by having spaces where you can gather and express yourself freely.
This isn’t to exclude those of us who are into comics (myself), like rock (which is a black cultural production) or any other number of things that may fall outside what it is to be black.
Once I saw a black kid on a skateboard wearing an icp shirt. He was an inspiration.
looooooool
That was you staring at me?
Weirdo.😎
That was you staring at me?
Weirdo.😎
But on a positive: I agree with you on accepting, validating and encouraging people to follow their interests and passions without judgement of whether or not it is considered “Black”
I feel like a missing element is this is very American coded... we have many Black ethnicities and subcultures here... and yes... our "upper class" and non-stereotypical community members are ignored and underrepresented in media and art. I knew guys like him in high school in classes where the majority of us were black, Black, proud and high performing students. The first time I saw myself in media was when Issa Rae had her "Misadventures of an Awkward Black Girl" web series online in the 2010s... in my late 20s. I was called "white" bc of how I spoke... many elements are hundreds of years in the making- not new... our language and music and foods being the oldest... when we tell someone they are not Black, its usually because they espouse antiblack sentiments... and it's saying something specific that isn't and doesn't *need* to be understood by people who dont know or understand it. Nuance matters.
I'm curious to know what this looks like in the UK...? Germany? Brazil? South America?
And you miss the mark speaking on our culture(s)...
THANK YOU
THIIIISSSSS. Being Black in America before the advent of the internet and social media was DIFFERENT and that’s precisely when Tyler the Creator and Donald came of age. There were so many questionable takes in this vid that are a direct result of his lack of knowledge and experience with Black Americans.
I love this video, excellent work, and I really identified as someone who has been called Childish Gambino by their family for years...but an aside:
C__onery is not a measure of blackness. It's an American reference to black people who hate black people and use their ability to tear down black people to elevate themselves with white people.
Candace Owens is goofy. But Candace Owens is labeled a c__n because she calls black people drug addicts and defended the murder of George Floyd.
Sometimes a racial term is a measure specifically of how much black people sabotage other black people, not how black they are.
Also...
FD Signifier has a video where he explains how important it is to normalize interracial dating in the black community. And he's not criticizing black men dating white women in that clip, he's criticizing black men who discriminate against women who aren't white.
That's all, again, I subscribed and this is a brilliant video.
I thought similarly on this beforer, but you might want to look back into the details surround George's killing.
Agreed. When F.D. comments on how black women dating white women, he's fine and actually onboard with it. It's when black men date white women to the detriment of black *women* because at least here in the states, it isn't uncommon for some black men to act (and speak) like black women are beneath them; that dating and marrying white women is something to aspire to. I really enjoyed this video, and would encourage Layton to look at F.D.s video on the subject, and not just features to learn more of what I'm talking about.
That absolutely needs to be something to remain mindful of.
You’re definitely right on how the term c-n originated and how it *should* be used. But in my 40 years of living I’ve heard it more so used as a pejorative for “square”, less “scary” blacks who fit in with or are a lil more palatable for the white majority(but not necessarily trying to be) or blacks who are simply trying to climb up the socio-economical ladder and fit within those ranks.
Can’t count how many times Ive heard other lackadaisical black co workers call our OTHER black co workers a c-n, simply for doing their job, possessing a professional demeanor, taking their job “too seriously”, etc…and not even in a “Yes, Massa” type of way. Just a way that anyone who takes their job seriously would do.
Ive also seen that word projected on blacks who talk “white” or share conservative political views.
None of those things come close to “🦝 ing” to me. I think alot of folks who use that word don’t understand the nuance of it.
I didn’t know about the modern usage of that word thanks for clearing that up. This should get pinned at the top.
As a mixed race person, I have definitely experienced not feeling Black enough, and having to "perform" my race, while still being othered my whole life by white people. The amount of people who've said to me "You're not really black though" either as an excluding statement, or sometimes even as a kinda backwards compliment, really clashes with the amount of times I've been called the n-word or profiled by police/security
"Too black for the white kids, and too white for the blacks" - Earl Sweatshirt (edit- Just seen that you put Tyler quoting Earl in this video :D )
(Piccolo is Black though)
Just makes me think of a friend of mine. His own family used to make fun of him ALL the time saying he is too white because he "talked white" and some.interests like music. Today the blackcent he puts on is so thick it makes me cringe with how inauthentic it is.
Sounds like he took the Aaron route, lol (I just hope it feels authentic to him, as opposed to it being a persona)
@@LaytonObserves I hope so, but he really doesnt seem happy in general. Hopefully this isnt part of it, but I worry.
Pretty good video. I do think there were parts of the video where you not seeing the other side of the limited how nuanced this discussion was but overall, you hit a lot of valid points.
In the past I’ve watched a decent amount of F.D. Signifier’s content and iirc he argues that there’s a certain group of black guys that exclusively date white women because of their disdain for black women. Men in this group tend to believe that black women are inherently aggressive, disagreeable, and masculine so they’ll come to the conclusion that it is better to date outside of the race. An implicit part of that belief is the prescriptive definition of being black outlined in this video. I believe f.d.’s point is that black guys that don’t date black women may not necessarily harbor this sentiment but it is indicative.
That said, I do find the whole hairline thing kinda dubious and ironic af considering who is saying it.
The hairline thing is a meme in the community because it has symbolizes a reaction to black culture specifically barber shops and hair care. Also Ironic how? FD keeps his locs pretty well maintained.
People, especially black people, need to learn that being black isn’t this broad stroke. There are many types of black people and that we aren’t limited to the negative stereotypes that, for some reason, we hate but constantly keep to confirm our blackness. Colorism and elitism in our community is truly sickening.
At 19, I've always struggled with my black identity, also growing up being near the only black kid In class. Gambino was a light for me, as well as Tyler the Creator. As a kid, there were times I was perceived as the "cool black guy" stereotype, which shattered expectations Because I'm black I knew how to rap and play basketball. I suck at basketball. I'm a dork, I wear loud patterned shirts and graphic tees. I don't know how to play cards at the cookout, I talk about movies and games. I listen to Metal and Emo. I'm black, but feel as though I "act white". Ever since graduating HS, this mindset went away little by, but still feel I don't fit In. Didn't help to see the flack Gambino got too for being "anti-black"
As someone who grew up connecting to Donald Glover, who was also called whitewashed, and still enjoys “white music" I agree that there is no way to "act black”. HOWEVER, in recent years, I have grown to realise some of Donald Glover’s questionable behaviours, (possibly stemming from his rejection from black women, which seems he still hasn't gotten over) such as his aggressive portrayals of darkskin women in Atlanta, being turned on by getting called the n-word by white girls and his love for “black girls of every culture” but not actual black girls (like wtf does that even mean). There's a line between not conforming to black stereotypes and having internalised racism. Idk about Donald but personally, I found more confidence and love for my blackness through loving the black women around me.
+
I know Donald Glover as a RUclipsr in Derrick Comedy. He has come so far.
I'm trying to be like him, fr, lol
@@LaytonObserves You can be my spiderman.
@@Dangerous_Leon Looool, maybe one day 👀
I’ll never forget that episode of regular show he was in and everyone was goin crazy sayin “childish gambino” was in it and I go to google thinkin “WHO” and I was completely shocked to see the Derrick comedy guy 😅
Faaaaacts a lot of people don’t know that. Them videos in the early RUclips days were wiiiiiiiild lol
"Spell Dante (or Dontae)" is the slickest question ever for a black trial
Woulda said Donte tbh
I gotta save all your asses!
"Dontay"
@@mowainwright73 black names are an artwork
I dunno...i think there is a huge swath of 80s and 90s stars that predate any of this
Morgan Freeman
Bill Dee Williams
Carl Weathers
Idris Elba
Denzel Washington
They werent the Renaissance men that Donald is...but I feel saying popular figures that transcended "black coded"
I think the ones you mentioned are more grounded where as Donald was more nerdy/anxious and also being in the rap world exposes that side of him to a lot of criticism. Also I think Denzel is very black like barbershop uncle black 😂
@MrSipho1 The funny thing is when you look at Denzel, he is a theatre man. Now when you think about black culture theatre and drama class don't come to mind.
donald didn't transcend it though. he fell below it lol
@@MrSipho1 Hasn't Denzel been very critical of the sort of behaviors and attitudes that apply "prescriptive black"?
Layton, I love this!
As a 40yo+ black, racially “dismorphic” 😂, female, I feel like your entire analysis is spot on. I’ve definitely been accused of “talking too white”- (which I never understood) until I was out of High School- all for naught.
And I’ve constantly gone through arbitrary screening/ scrutiny sessions (Rich Wigga, Poor Wigga) all for naught…
I’m glad that this rhetoric seems to have died down more recently, bc it’s a huge hinderance to progress- especially for a group that’s more oppressed than any other. I sincerely hope that this spirit of acceptance continues.
You’re pure gold!
Thanks soooooo much for doing this!
Respectfully, I have to say your takeaway from those clips of Olay and Friends and Waving the Red Flag is bad faith.
For one thing, the hairline thing should be goofy, considering it's a joke.
But more importantly than that, a lot of what you're pontificating in this essay, for example ostracizing black people for having eclectic interests or dating interracially is bad, are views shared by the people you're criticizing.
This is reflected both on the individual social media of those creators, their personal lives, and across various content they've created.
In particular, I take issue with the misrepresentation of FD, Olay, Foreign, Conscious, Rebecca, & Gabrielle as pejoratively labeling people an Uncle Tom, or 🦝 simply for having a different opinion than "black people". This is invalid. The context is clear that those people they are referring to engage in antiblackness, which deserves absenting & scrutiny.
The video you chopped up was about how the ruling against Affirmative Action will have negative, racist ramifications for black people in America.
And Aba & Preach have been known to disparage & lie on black women, for jokes. They don't deserve the cover you're providing.
Those creators you're downing speak often of how their views are not necessarily shared by a great many black people, nor are their audiences primarily black people despite the work they do for our communities.
Your words will be weaponized against those people by bad actors looking to validate their biases against people who make that abolitionist content from a black lense. It's irresponsible.
This is the first time my algorithm has recommended you. I very much liked your video and agreed with most of your observations, up until this tangent towards the end.
You should consider reaching out to those creators directly because I suspect you have more in common with them than your edit implies.
Good point
Imo out of FD, Olay, Foreign, Conscious, Rebecca, & Gabrielle I am only familiar with FD but he falls into the trap of talking about people engaging in antiblackness but he himself then does the things this video highlights in the process from what I have seen in the past.
"Aba & Preach have been known to disparage & lie on black women, for jokes." They joke on everyone they don't specifically go after black women they are comedians this isn't true.
@@OdessaSenpai What do you mean by "does the things"? Are you saying FD is being antiblack by talking about people cooning? Cuz that doesn't make sense.
I didn't say Aba & Preach specifically go after black women, but them mistreating other groups of people is not a defense for lying on and stereotyping black women under a very specific lense of misogynoir.
@@OdessaSenpaiNot to say FD hasn’t had some bad takes, but what is some of the antiblackness you’re speaking of?
And i can’t say I’m very versed on them, but whenever Aba & Preach would come up on my timeline they were constantly harping on black women, POC women, or trans women. Whether that was just to get engagement or what have you, they still participated in very anti-black and anti-social discussions that they profit off of those who wish to throw negativity on those communities
@charlestaylorco8713 aba and preaches latest video shows what I am talking about, being critical of black people doesn't equate to anti blackness it's just Having high standards for them. For FD I would really have to dig because this was a couple years ago when I realized the trend/talking points he would engage in and I unsubscribed from him.
I was captivated by your video about Donald Glover and his early struggles in finding where he fits in the ever evolving cultural universe of being Black In America. I have to be honest though, I will be 65 years old early next year, I was born and raised in Compton, California in the beginning of the early 1960's. I was Donald Glover before Donald Glover. And I'm the child of Black Parents. See, being in my 60's now I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing new under the Sun. I find it fascinating that the current generations of the past two decades are just amazed that it's just so surprising and compelling to find Black people like Donald Glover. But, I must make my comment about his life and mine very transparent, we both grew up in the United States Of America. And here in America, well it has been a struggle. I have endured, and have raised two sons and I am a grandfather. I've also learned that I am much more than the sum of my parts and I know Donald Glover has learned that as well.
Shadows not black though. He's a white, mid 2000s Lincoln Park kid
lmao, the accuracy 😭 CRAAAAAAAAWLING INNNNNNNN MY SKINNNNNNNN
He’s a white kid in a trench coat
nahh you take that shit somewhere else.
shadow is absolutely an alt black dude with the tuffest hands on the block because he had to fight 🥷🏿's on the regular growing up and now he's cocky about it.
In America “black” has two separate meanings, one denotes skin color, the other denotes culture. So if your parents are Nigerian or you grew up immersed in white suburban culture then if a person is commenting on you not being “black” that’s what they are saying. As hurtful as that is. You have the race but not the culture. I’m sure it’s the same for Nigerians raised in America that visit their parents home. Their family knows they are Nigerian but culturally… somethings different.
same thing with Caribbean descendants , I got called a white woman because I talk with an Australian accent, everything black I was questioned about it or being told I have no clue on black subjects, which makes me even feel a guilt to claim my parents culture. I personally feel I don't belong anywhere but if I see this out loud around black people they will scream I am wrong and say I think I'm better than them 🙄
@@beeisforbianca6616unless you rejected you parents culture there's no guilt in claiming it, and blackness is larger than "American blackness" , they don't have the monopoly of trauma from white supremacy and the slave trade and the culture that comes from that. On the contrary, a lot of American black culture comes from immigrants.
@grandsome1 the comment began, "in America." I don't understand the "monopoly on trauma..." point. I've recently heard quite a bit of discourse around non-american "black" people not identifying as black, but by nationality/ethnicity. How relevant are the expectations of "black" culture outside of America?
@@XeniasWorld There has been discourse that black people who aren't of American slave descent aren't black and can't use the n-word. It's a fringe idea, but it comes from the position of privilege of being American that allows one to simply ignore and dismiss foreign cultures, people outside of America don't have the luxury of ignoring American culture given its hegemony, nor they can ignore the culture of their neighbours and colonizers and for some of their colonies.
There is often a sense of insularism and a lack of historical knowledge in American black culture discourse as if black Americans were the only ones whose ancestors got shipped out of Africa enslaved or the only ones who had to suffer racism when American racism was often the blueprint of many regimes subjugation of minorities and other black people.
White people outside of America model their whiteness on American witness, and victimise PoC based on American racism, which forces them to also look to America to find some of the tools to combat it.
In short like I said, Americans have the luxury to ignore the world but the world does not have the luxury to ignore the Americans.
perfect commentary, great points, wish it was longer
One of the odd things about this "whiteness is blankness" is that it's VERY Western and, previously to the past 7-10 years, we'd call it "grey" or "staticky". It's "the background", but, since it race is such a hot button thing and always at the forefront of some people's mind, that's what they see and who are the predominant race in the West? White people. And "blackness" is about a specific sub-culture in the US, which would have a different label in other countries, so there's an implicit association because of who we see using "whiteness" to mean "the background culture". Then there are the naive people who think "white people have no culture" because they're so subsumed in it that they have become the embodiment of "not seeing the forest for the trees" (more aptly reversing trees and forest though).
you saying the n word completely threw me off guard
Let’s first acknowledge that America Black is a whole different thing on its own, especially black people that lives in the southern states. Gambino was born in Cali and his parents are from there but later moved to Georgia a southern state and they lived in Atlanta metro area which is one of the blackest places to be. And for the last 10 years are so, we are starting to realize that there are different ways of being black in America and the Childish Gambinos,the Tyler the Creators, the Kid Cudis & etc are what we now call “Alternative Black” the ones that participate in the non traditional/typical/ general/stereotypical things that black people participate in. But in the end they are still black in America. They still have black families, they know all of the black cultural traditions, language, and references internally, unlike Drake who don’t know and wasn’t around those cultures references. So yes he is BLACK.
I love your sense of humour, genius video man. Looking forward to more. 😤
Appreciate 🙏🏽
What made this episode amazing is that it represented figuratively what the plight of a black man who doesn’t culturally appeal to black culture will undergo. A council is always there evaluating and judging your “blackness”, a term forced upon us by the colonizer might I add. So Mr. Glover is among the many that had/has to go through being “black enough” for the council which is society, which can be black culture.
The only racism my friends have ever discussed experiencing was from other black girls telling them they talked/acted/dressed "white". Listened to "white people" music. Just dumbasses.
Yup, then he decided to be that council when it comes to his weird misogynoir with his black women.
What cracks me up is it seems like Donald thinks he's the only one who went through this and he ISNT. I have a year on him and went through all of this but mainly because I'm an army brat. But I didn't go through a crisis like he seemed to. I knew I'm black...I've just been exposed to way more cultures than even the average white person....nothing bad. Just life
Some black people I've met have been pleasantly surprised at what I've listened to, drank, ate, i got fist bumped by a stranger for having a grape KA lmao
same
lmfao, this is the most Black British coded comment yet. "Grape KA"
@@LaytonObserves It slaps so hard, what a beverage
@@QuentinKarentino That and Ting i love that drink but Grape KA on a hot day is the shit
What is grape ka?
Thanks for video. I love your work
Thank you for appreciating and the support 💛
The guy in the episode of Atlanta reminds me of my son .his mom is black but he looks straight up Irish lol. Red hair and all . As a single dad who’s happens to be white with two mixed kids one who white passing and one who’s not this is super relevant to me.
Using the prescriptive or the descriptive way is not really a problem (although for practicality reasons, I believe the descriptive way is much easier and clearer!) The problem is the defensiveness, outrage, emotion that people have around the topic. Race is an interesting characteristic of human beings and I don't think we should shy away talking about it (especially in a curious way!), but in the end what matters is what's in someone's head, what they do, and how they treat other people. This was as always a super well-made and entertaining video! It helped me understand how much importance this topic has in the black community.-Yeah, I bet also in other groups, but perhaps I never really thought about it too much. I am of Chinese descent, with 3rd generation Chinese Indonesian parents. I was born up and grew up in Germany, spoke German as my first language (the only Asian in my class), but have lost fluency over the years as I moved to the States, Indonesia, Singapore, and now Canada. What race am I? I'm still Chinese, I bet a genetic test would prove that lol, though I don't speak the language and only follow its most basic customs. But that's never what made me feel like an outcast. If I ever felt like one, it's that I didn't fit in as a rather extreme introvert, and always felt a bit weird. Nothing to do with race :) Thanks for the video! It saved me from a frustrating afternoon of moving my video files haha
Agree on descriptive being clearer. My only issue with the prescriptive way is that it's often rooted in stereotypes, then used to exclude people outside of the mould. Agree! The internal qualities of character are more important than the outer. Appreciate you sharing your backstory! And glad the video helped alleviate the annoyance of file moving, ha!
As a lightskin fully black dude who started in the suburbs and is now in the hood 😂 ive went through what aaron did, both my parents black, but i remember when my parents called me and my siblings "squares", and i was like "we were inner city kids, you guys went to pains stacking efforts to put us around these psuedo racist kids and teachers so we had to adapt."
I got in trouble safe to say back then, but i can attest, this is just the a subsector of the age old "Nature vs. Nurture",
I had a mix of early childhood black & late childhood white nurturing (culturally), but my nature is solidly black.
So i can present myself as culturally "white" and code switch really good, give people my best "good boy" in order to get in the door, but my mind is always thinking culturally "black", it just is what it is, theyre both genuinely me, but you do realistically have to heighten certain aspects of yourself depending on your environment in order to effectively do what you need to do.
Some hard core black traditionalist especially those in street culture, may see it as fake.
But when has adapating to best utilize your environment ever been "fake"???
Humans have survived abd conquered the world doing this, they themselves utilize the hood, street and gang culture to do so, everyone is adapating by default whether they want to or not.
Simply because i know how to traverse the spectrum freely without the confines of inner or outer conflict and social/peer pressure is to my advantage, and will only rub those incapable the wrong way, in my opinion anyway.
I’m so glad Someone is having this conversation because we’ve been doing this to each other for years. We don’t realize how we put each other down when we do this
YAY!! New video. I can't wait to indulge for the next hour.
I love his new album 😍 It's been on repeat the last few days.
ALSO, I LOVE your hair!
Ha! Hope you enjoy :)
I'm jealous. I've been so focused on getting this video out-- I can finally listen to Bando Stone now !! Will report back [salutes]
Thank you! Had to trim the bird's nest eventually :')
I love you and so glad you make interesting and thought provoking content! You’ve got so many commentary channels recycling the same message over and over and everyone agreeing with each other acting like they’ve actually contributed something new.
Damn. I was 11 when the spiderman thing happened. I actually kind of got into nerd stuff around the same time Miles Morales was coming about and genuinely liked him. I think what happened to him sounds horrible and is inexcusable. The debate about race swapping characters can be had without hostility and blaming a guy that has nothing to do with the hiring decision.
It can in proper communities, yeah, but it seems no drama goes by without the dregs of people reducing it to the lowest common denominator, ugliest attacks and accusations, regardless of race, sex, politics, or any other characteristic.
@@mercaius. People are tribal and when you hyper focus on race in a society that has had intense racial hostility in its past - things will get ugly fast. I’m so discouraged at what the current race discussion looks like - we’ve went backwards
@@brianmeen2158the way I see it, "being black" is policed from the inside, but it was definitely imposed from the outside. The people on top can't maintain what they have without a broken working class.
Miles Morales is a shame because of what Marvel has done with him. They cheapen his character with the Spiderverse thing (in my opinion) and they hurt him badly when they tokenize the crap out of him by making him an alt for like every superhero (on top of the push to outright replace Peter Parker rather than making an addition which started happening LATER in Miles' existence)
@@freedomandguns3231 Miles was never meant to or being pushed to replace Peter and I don't really understand how the Spider-Verse cheapens his existence at all? The point of the Spider-Verse is just to show that anyone can be Spider-Man which is both why Miles exists and what Stan Lee explicitly wanted when he created Spider-Man. I think there's even a direct quote of him saying if he created Spider-Man in the modern day he probably would've been black or something else to represent how it doesn't really matter who is wearing the mask.
I also don't really understand what you mean with the tokenization thing. Marvel has never really used Miles as just a diversity trophy or anything like they have with other characters (created after his success) outside of just having the character display pride in his identity as a half black, half Latino man. Miles at worst is written to be basically just race swapped Peter but usually he's just kind of a normal guy. I don't get why you're acting like Marvel treats the character terribly when (outside of the shitty games) Miles has basically been having a renaissance over the past six years while Peter is just forced to never grow or develop past the 2000s.
im sorry , but knuckles and piccolo are black (we are not serious, its just a headcannon lmao)
A headcannon that we all universally agree with lol
Your mom gave great headcannon last night, TREBEK!
I'm serious lol jk
Watching this video made me realize that honestly, EVERY group gatekeeps being a member of that group. You can start from the broadest groups and go down; men gatekeep being men, women gatekeep being women, Black folks gatekeep being Black, Black MEN will gatekeep being Black men, LGBT folks will gatekeep being LGBT, Spider people will gatekeep being Spider people. Unfortunately, i think there are some groups who are affected far worse. Individuals can still be affected terribly regardless of group but i think some groups or minorities suffer as a whole far worse than others, and sadly that's oppression that comes from WITHIN, not without. I wonder if there is any hard, objective data on what affects people worse, oppression from outside the groups they identify with or oppression from within those groups.
It’s definitely from with out in the situations of discrimination, because most of the time this gatekeeping of discriminated groups within is a form of trying to keep itself safe and give a place to be within the dominant oppressive society. No the forms of gatekeeping aren’t always pro-social and good for the community but in this example the fear of being “white” is the fear of losing customs and/or being infiltrated by the oppressive dominate culture in such as way that is detrimental to the black community(as has happened time and time again)
And ofc kids (and even adults) don’t always fully understand that as they’re growing up, which leads to in-group, out-group bullying, which is something we must constantly work on throughout all communities.
I’m am not black, i am not an american.. But growing-up in eastern europe - this is really relatable. Thank to your essay - i finally realized why Donald’s art is so meaningful to me, thank you.
Being black complicates things when you want to be into “non black” interests or interests you don’t associate to black people, or generally just don’t have personality traits that one would associate with being black. you have to have people, your own people mind you, calling you “white” and then white people expecting you to exhibit the stereotypes of a black man when your true personality and the way you see yourself is different. It shouldn’t be such an issue but it is.
It’s frustrating, black people are not a monolith, there are black people with the same traits as white people and that’s just how it is. The label of “black” is something you can’t change, and it births a frustrating existence and daily struggle
The algorithm just showed me this video and I'm very thankful! Love your outlook, love your perspective, looking forward to more
Be interesting to hear your perspective on the drake Kendrick beef and how Drake’s blackness or perceived lack thereof played a role. I agree with lots of what you said but also think there are some nuances that you may be missing out on due to not being raised in America possibly. I enjoyed the video tho !
I agree was thinking like I like this but there's definitely an influence American colonialism has across the world clearly lol but living under it in America me being from the south and the plantations my family were slaves on is now a tourist attraction in a very racist state in one of if not the most racist country in the world even supporting and funding a genocide of the Palestinians it definitely gives a special flavor to our struggle and perspectives in this system
Nah for sure, I think the distinction between “black” and American black is where a lot of people get lost. Like obviously someone from Somalia is “black” but they would have a tough time telling u about soul food and r&b lol. And sadly u see a lot of those cultures, even dark skinned ones, hating on black Americans and using racist narratives against them. It’s truly sad how divided this world has become bc of a European invention of race.
Awesome video 🤙🏾 I could go in for paragraphs on what it was like growing up a lil biracial dude but I’d rather share something that my mom always told me: “You can’t act a color.”
You could swap out the word "black" for "gay", update the examples, and otherwise more or less preserve the whole script.
My heart breaks for all those Little Richard/Sylvester/Stromaë types out there who get double dipped
Same thing with gender identity. “Oh you don’t like dresses? That must mean you’re not fully/at all female”. Um… what?
As Layton so beautifully put it, let’s “expand the circumference” of what an identity marker can include.
@Renfair333 You mean re-expand it, surely. Masculinity, femininity, "blackness", and a ton of other social institutions were questioned and shaken up in the 70s and 80s. By modern standards, David Lee Roth and Alice Cooper were trans, and Whitney Houston wasn't sufficiently black enough. I'm not sure why it didn't all stick. Did the Boomers fix it only for GenX to ruin it? Was it fine when it was playful, but when shirking social norms became an identity and identity became political we undid all that playfulness?
I'm gay and how do you mean?
@@johnindigo5477 You've never once been told you're not properly gay for not liking a certain thing enough or having the correct interests or voting the correct way or dressing the correct way or... what-have-you? There are massive pressures in gay spaces to conform.
Thanks!
Thank _you_ for appreciating so much and the tip 💛
Profiteerism is inherently divisive, in every way profitable, and then some
Just stumbled over this video. Great work🖤 thanks for taking the time.
I’m born and raised in Germany, and work in a UK/US based company. With plenty of family in English speaking countries. In the English world I exist, I’m a bi-racial woman.
You should see the look in my (German speaking) friends eyes, when I used the 121 translation to introduce myself 😅
I pushed some boundaries to figure out, how to explain an English native my issue as a German native, not as a daughter of a black man, with the word “race”.
And it’s crazy that my upbringing in a country like Germany taught me to see a human being in a certain -human- way, not the history of the “race” of my father.
When I saw the episode of Atlanta a few years ago, I found it quite funny, since I fall into a rabbit whole, a few days before, called “one drop rule”.
Thanks again for your time🖤
The hairline thing is kinda true though ngl lol. Not sure you’d understand every nuance of our culture from across the pond or care to understand such a niche observation whilst cosplaying Yuseke Urameshi
Yea I felt like he was on point for most of the video but the hairline and the piccolo stuff kinda undermined his message. I get the sense he thinks what Kendrick did to Drake on not like us was some negative form of black gatekeeping or something
Oh look, a black person doing exactly what he said in the video. “You don’t get it, you’re not black enough”. Did you just watch the entire video on mute lmao
@@dreamgood130I’m white and maybe dont have the perspective to understand but im interested on what your take of what Kendrick did to Drake is. I don’t necessarily have an opinion with him “revoking his black card” but I’d like to understand how it’s different than the problems portrayed in the video if you don’t mind explaining.
Donald Glover is black, and has been. He was willing to make jokes at the expense of his race and that’s what separated him. There are plenty alternative, creative, weird, literate, black people. We are not a monolith and never have been. But through his stand up and other interviews, he has also contributed to making that space personally. He has doubted the existence of “weird black girls” as if they weren’t a part of his Fanbase. This isn’t the only person like this and won’t be the last. I cannot speak to him as a person in his current space, but in the 2010s.
Was about to say I used to BMX with my 2 other black friends when we was young at Southbank skate park.
I respect it
Yessss Layton YES immediately clicked🔥🤘🏾💗
Ha! The highest compliment. Hope you enjoyed!
As a mixed straight person who looks white and queer I really vibe with this video, there are so many expectations on these things and so much ridiculous gatekeeping it starts to infringe on our ability to connect and support each other. I’m fortunate the color of my skin means I don’t face the same hardships my father did but it also means I’m living in this weird middle ground that leaves me isolated from all parties. I can understand these experiences but always as an outsider, people write off what you have to say if you’re standing outside the gate the built. But at the same time I do understand why that gate is there, I just wonder if it does more harm in excluding people who don’t fit into either strictly defined box.
Am i black? I have so many questions.
By the end of the video, you'll know the answer
@@suezcontours6653 You sound stupid i would go read a book but something tells me you would struggle with that
@suezcontours6653 He's black, just not black American. Also, you're not black either by that logic ( you didn't perform blackness in your reply)
If you didn't vote for Biden,or if you dont like rap and sneakers,you're not
@@natashka1982 lmao
Honestly when I first came across Childish Gambino/Donald it was like….a relief almost? Like finally some representation for people like me that enjoyed rap and couldn’t relate to the gangster aesthetic. Definitely played a part in my artistry and I love him for it. He’s always been black to me ❤
White being "blankness" basically means the universality of whiteness has carried on into the progressive worldview. White stands for the "universal," the unambiguated default onto which any other race can be swapped in, while the reverse is disallowed, since the other races are merely "particular" identities. The same largely holds for "man" vs "woman", where man is universal and woman is particular. A man is the default (think "Mankind," Tolkien's the "Race of Men," etc.), and so a man can be swapped out for a woman unproblematically (women can take on typically male sexual roles, work roles, etc). But the reverse is generally untenable (a man swapping in for a woman at a daycare is not the same as a woman swapping roles with a CEO).
The particular can stand in for the universal, but the universal can't stand in for the particular. Or, put differently, the alternative can stand in for the default/blank slate, but the default cannot stand in for the alternative.
The terms ‘whiteness’ and ‘blackness’ are quite silly tbh ..
Gosh I love this channel. 51 year old white dude and I'm still learning more about the concept and reality of blackness. Helps me understand what people are going through. Thanks.
I'm about halfway through the video and just feel the need to say thank you. What a great discussion. Where does this discussion happen? On Layton Observes. Love the new intro thingeee. Well done thank you. Now, back to your dad.
Glad you're enjoying! (and hopefully continued to enjoy). Thanks for the kind words 🙏🏽
Drake rapped in young money, was rapping about things closer to the stereotypical club and rich black guy, dated Rhianna, had black people in his music videos earlier, and worked the rap scene in Houston and Atlanta.
Donald started with a comedy sketch show with white guys, did standup to predominantly white audiences, rapped fast about stereotypically white shock jock stuff, before starting as one of 2 black people on a lower budget cable TV show, etc... and I'll throw in that he wasnt seen dating black women lol.
I would say Donald became black with Atlanta and when he made a show centered around black people's odd lives in Atlanta.
It's not crazy to think drake had more culture credit.
all cultures have internally prescribed ways of being. the way those are shaped are relative to the hegemonic cultures and the ways one culture relates to them. i think the intracultural policing of blackness is based more on what it means to be a certain flavor of non-white vs anything inherent to the culture or its constituents.
Great video! I actually watched the whole thing. I have a similar growing up experience as Donald Glover, so I can relate to a lot of this.
love this video layton. you earned a new subscriber
Glover and JayZ are saying the same thing. Saying it from different perspectives, formative experiences, and education levels. But saying the same thing. Everything is shaped by the larger culture~especially the subculture of “black culture”. I’m genX and while the markers change, the black culture “who’s black” has always been a thing. If you swap out “black culture” with “tribalism” it will make more sense and is an easier dynamic to explain…mostly because it raises us out of the fishbowl and places us at the level of concept. And “construct”
At the concept and construct level we can see how it’s heavily influenced by the dominant culture through a more historical lens-everyone is in on it if Spider-Man has to be white.
41:41 that song is a millionaire talking to his working class audience saying "ignore my money, I'm just like you! Honest >:) " It's not bleak it is cynical n sneaky
I love your content I have been watching it for years. I truly appreciate it just like most of other viewers I hope things pick up for you & find a different platform that you can make more money from them RUclips.. they keep hating on your boy😂
Whoa! That's super warming to read :) Haha! True true. The thing is, I love RUclips. So I just want to make sure things can be sustainable for me, despite the inevitable hiccups :') I SHALL NOT BE DISSUADED! More content for years to come! Thank you so much for the tip and support, Chris 💛
This Layton guy is theanimeman coded.
That quote of Donald saying he doesn’t belong anywhere hit my soul. I have never belonged anywhere, I tried to be normal but it didn’t take. I’ve accepted that I’m a defective misfit toy, and oddly enough that was a very freeing realization.
Did you have to make us wait until 5:52 for the first "baby boy"? Come on, son!
Loooool, sorry for edging you for so long
I agreed with so many things you said here, but I still noticed such a difference between the black American experience and the black Australian experience, because although resonate with the frustration of people in my own race determining if I’m black enough, it’s nowhere near comparable to The entitled white Americans who have had anything to add to that conversation
Always great food for thought! Thanks!!
You're welcome, hope it was tasty
I had an experience in 7th grade where a white kid who kinda dressed "black" or acted "black" walked up to me and said "your the whitest non white person ive ever met" and i was confused i was confused because ive never really thought about my ethnicity until that point and i was thinking "what does he mean? Im not white how do i act white" and since im dominican im in even in a bigger confusion am I even black? Am i hispanic? And im glad i could think about this but im mad that i have to because my whole life i just wanted to connect with people be apart of a group and im at a point in my life where im now wanted to be seen as "black" because of my background i grew up in a shitty apartment in brooklyn so i want people to know yeah im black im in struggle or whatever it means. And i know this is just another stage for culture and black culture and what it means but i hope one day that being black doesnt mean acting "black" and we could just be human. Im still in confusion while writing this but i hope you all get the gist of it. Thank you for making this video.
Im sorry but is this layton guy black with straightened hair....? Or is that what his hair just looks like? Or is he indian...
For a girl out here who is neurodivergent but white, I had struggled with the race conversation when I was young, because I had to constantly change who I am and be aware of how I am perceived so to me it seemed like a human problem not a race problem, which I guess now I do agree with to some extent but with more nuance than when I was child. Racism is a human problem and it is only one facet of how we judge and percieve others. I really enjoyed this video super interesting
Honestly, I understand you put 100hrs into this but this video wasn’t it. You completely glossed over the historical and societal contexts of Donald Glovers identity - descriptive vs prescriptive and how much a bigger impact colorism and being Black in a majority white sauce impacts someone’s identity-, impacts of institutional racism on both psychology and presentation, code switching, and the very reason why Black culture tends to relate more culturally than ethically in many regards. As a Black British person, though I see you got many things right, I don’t think you have enough historical context to truly speak about this heavy handed topic of “When Childish Gambino became Black”. I would recommend checking out FD Signifier and T1J (not just his zoom videos) and their video essays to get some more social and historical context regarding these issues. Also Kevin Samuels is wack, and it makes sense that Donald Glover brought his on as he seems to have some colorist and anti-Black sentiments in his dating history (may be a result of internalized racism).
this was a really interesting watch, thanks
Because whiteness and blackness are caste levels.... And race is a caste system... They're just trying to deny that 🙄🤧🥴