The TRUTH About MotoAmerica and King Of The Baggers
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2024
- In this episode Mark and Kevin talk about King of the Baggers, and the insanity that is Harley-Davidson and Indian roadrace bikes. Listen as we go in-depth on the science behind these bikes, and the hype around this series!
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I'd like to see Honda's bagger allowed to race with Harely and Indian: the Goldwing F6B.
Not me, keep it like it is. Taking in the Japanese motorcycles is like allowing Transgender male playing in woman’s sports
Honda cannot make the goldwing light enough to compete
@@randylucas2458 - Really? How much do the Harley and Indian baggers weigh? My stock F6B weighs 804 pounds. An HD Road glide is 837 pounds according to Google. I realize the racing bikes aren't stock, but how much weight did they shave off? Also, somewhere in the rules, doesn't it say the baggers have to be V-twins? That would rule out the Goldwing, unfortunately.
@@KurtisIsley The problem with the goldwine itself is the way the engine is designed. It's just a very heavy engine. Even if they could somehow make a stainless steel frame for it's still wouldn't be light Enough to compete I ran gold wings for thirty years. My current Harley is a 01 roadglide. Its 735 with 1 gallon of gas. Not all harleys are heavy.
@@randylucas2458 735 lbs…!!! Not heavy…? GTFOOH.
By the way, I think min weight for the baggers 620 lbs.
I ride Japanese naked bikes. I’m not a cruiser/bagger guy yet I find KOTB to be a fascinating race series that I can follow and understand. The emerging theories and technology they showcase is there for all to see. As fantastic as MotoGP is, those guys are not even from planet Earth riding bikes that are technologically and mechanically unobtanium.
Agree. MotoGP ceased to be interesting when computers took over the bikes.
Like comparing f1 to sprint cars
It is fascinating. The long wheelbase looks a little more forgiving when the bike gets squirrely. But it doesn't look like the KOTB bikes share many parts with the ones you find in the showroom. The rider position looks like it's the same as a 600 supersport.
I want to see a BMW R1800 Bagger turned into a KOB racer.
Won't ever happen. Would need a redesigned engine.
Why? Ground clearance?
Why? BMW has sport bikes. All Harley has is straight line vibrators.
My 5' 7" dad rode an Indian in WWII in an Armored Division. He rode that bike from North Africa to Belgium through some of the worst weather and mud. Constantly shot at as he was a dispatcher delivering command messages to the front. After 4 years he had the physique of Bruce Lee where he looked small but, when he puffed up you thought he was a different person. When I was a kid he had promised he would buy his favorite bike of the time a Harley Electra Glide and we would go cross country. Unfortunately he passed away just after my 15th B-Day. He would have been 102 last week. I've always been a road racer myself so these baggers are a blast to watch.
Wow, I have a copy of 1942 military bike. Will be showing at June 29th at Naughty School Girls rally for veterans in Durango, Colorado.
I bet he was a great man. Don't let his story ever die! God bless you.
Bagger racing is equivalent to watching a series where Buick LeSabres race Mercury Montegos.
Good close racing, but the drivers can take their coffee along, to make it seem faster.
Bagger racing is fun to watch esp the Indian , Harley rivalry. Hope they have more races though
Racing is racing. As a boy in the fifties and early sixties, if we had two Radio Flyers and a bit of a hill, it was on! Then it was Schwinn Stingrays in the canyon. Junior high and we were racing home on our Varsities. High school brought in air-cooled VW bugs and big bore kits, carbs, cams, and propped up engine lids. I was reintroduced to road racing and Moto America by Kyle Wyman's channel with his Ducati Panigale racing effort. Then they did the Bagger Racing as a sideshow. WTF! It's no more unusual to race baggers than to race a '65 Ford Galaxy 500. A lot of people can identify with bagger racing because they own a bagger. They couldn't sit on a sport bike. Well, not for long (even my '98 Honda VFR800FI gives my wrists and behind a bit of grief).
Now, for a topic. How about the Build. Train. Race. series? Maybe bring on a third person, one of the racers, and talk about their experiences? This series you have going is the best! Very grateful!
Your definitely showing your age. LOL Oh how I wanted a Schwinn Stingray back in the day. I bought a Continental instead only because I could ride it farther and it had 10 speeds. There is still a company near me that makes all the VW big bore and stroker stuff for a VW. They currently have parts to take your VW to 2276cc. And yes Bagger racing is awesome!
NASCAR, as alienated most of its fans We are hungry for real racing. The ones who find the bagger racing Will watch.
Please include Peter Egan in these fantastic RUclips presentations
Racing baggers are the NASCAR of motorcycles. but unlike NASCAR that doesn't even resemble nor represent the average car, the bagger class still identifies with the road going bikes . The challenge over the years will be to continue that representation of a road going motorcycle and still keep it entertaining and competitive to watch, and not just become the MotoGP of baggers.
They went faster than MotoGP at Daytona this year ... Kyle Wyman and Tyler O'Hare were trading paint at 185 mph up on the high bank !!!!! During the MotoGP race I heard announcer say 177 mph was the top speed ..which makes sense ...I would guess the MotoGP were geared a bit lower for more torque coming out of the turns
Fascinating that neither Harley nor Indian offer a "Race Raplica" bagger.
My Harley-Davidson dealer keeps one on the showroom podium 2024 Road King special as my Harley shop gets the Blue why is that they sell faster and have a racing stripe. MSRP $24,999 if you are really going to buy one to ride and you want it to stay together and no disassemble itself on Saturday night in front of all your friends and Buddy who will never stop laughing you do what I say no matter what anybody else tells you take two aspirin and call me in the morning .... Here are the pros that's very short yes they will have the same engine detuned to handle low octane no lead yes they have exactly the same frame as the real States they're not allowed to modify anything on the frame so your factory model has the same frame that goes 185 miles an hour just won't have the horsepower quite enough to do it they'll only have 150 horsepower will that be enough as it will yank the front wheel with just a tickle of the wick that will bring out all the cons unbelievable astronomical cons that Harley Davidson will absolutely deny is impossible to happen but if you don't want to be like me and have a basket for a million dollar parts you will secretly when nobody's looking pull the compensating bracket off the engine and throw it in the deepest Pond you can find and have a aftermarket Plain Jane double sprocket that they make they'll flip right on there in place of it OEM anything and nobody will know the f****** differences we're getting it trying to save her two year worthless warranty if I had this job to you over again I tell him right up front piss on it I don't want anything of Harley Davidson extra b******* and give me the solid sprocket and the King Kong clutch made by Baker Drive Lines that specializes in only Harley-Davidsons on Overkill 300 horsepower in your face monster bites and so you're going to say well hell I don't need no place it's worth 500 horsepower oh yes you do because it'll take a thousand more hits of at a 150 horsepower that it never will do on a stock Harley screaming and go clutch that's worthless I went through three of them and three weeks and then a busted primary chain composting sprocket off center Twisted the crank locked up the motor busted the transmission are you getting this that's everything that you can break and they said oh they don't make that noise oh yeah two days later I'm calling them do they make that big screaming sound and leave a black mark 40 ft long and the motor won't turn over no more do they make that noise I want it fixed and they come out and picked it up in there Hurley hauler going to sit there for a week before they unwrapped it in the very next day my gut feeling said trade it in while they're interested and they took a blowed up busted forever Harley-Davidson that will never run again and for $7,000 more they gave me that drag racing model that won the 2020 championship US Nationals at Indianapolis pro stock drag bike..... I can probably say I'm a better expert of what I'm telling you about didn't anybody else in the world because nobody is insane in the membrane as I went through four different bikes and $250,000 to finally figure out what works and what don't and now I'm flat busted broke riding a piece of junk,,,, Clearwater boils down to you you don't know me and I don't know you but I will tell the truth to get even, with Harley ;, maybe even Steven as I traded up for a bite that cost $10,000 more than the one I blew up and they charged me only $7,000 difference for a bike that cost $1,5800 and I got a two-year newer just released the day I traded as I got the very first one ever that was priced at 25,000 give them the keys to my wreck busted broke and 7K more and when they pulled the primary cover for my FX silver pea gravel fell out that used to be my clutch basket cuz they didn't believe me in the first place when it was rather than making noise but they believe me now and they lost money big time oh by the way my purse man who forced me and by twisting my arm to pay a $50 more beyond the stage 4 Kit for the oversized gigantic high compression racing cylinder heads for only $150 more you can have them and I'll keep my mouth shut so you'll retain your extended warranty well so it seems while they were building dyna s they had called the factory for directions to Mount the racing heads and that my friend blew the whole warranty out of the water that they were not aware of as when you ask Harley Factory it's just like everywhere else you're going to talk to a bot AI virtual assistant who automatically ties in your kit you bought to soup up my Harley oh that's Mr hargis's Harley with the raising heads red light red light honk honk honk working warranty deleted automatically local Harley job a little hot as they had to dump about an extra 10 grand of their own cash into my spoiled pie I'm still laughing as I won$3,000 under what the new bike cost Plus another $10,000 personal pockets of the Harley Owners dealer and they don't seem to laugh anymore I'll put it that way Harleys are still tuner bikes for the very beginning don't ride the balls off of it until you buy the Harley manual read it like the Bible and do all the fixing of all the things that aren't broke before you take off and you'll be fine everything else well you can hear them they're standing out there Crying by the thousands that they've lost by the way Kyle Winans model just like this what I'm telling you about it's only about 5 minutes slower which is bugs really on the clock when he had his stock showroom fresh king of the Baggers on the track the only thing slowing it down was the stock Riding High that pretty much shorter than this why they got those suckers jacked up it's ridiculous but Kyle Lyman drags his f****** nature around the corners Moto GP Style and by the way do you have any C4 I can pack in this10-year-old Dell from Hell laptop that my AI artificial intelligent virtual assistant has fell in love with and hates me with just looking print up here I'm not going to go back and spend another half a f****** hour trying to fix it I was cuz she'll just change it back please b**** from hell you are never going to believe this but this particular AI artificial assistant she will come on and ask me hello can I help you let's play a game right in the middle of the money shot on every God damn p*** station
Top boxes, cup holders & sound systems should be mandatory.
Great idea!!
Also...make ape hangers mandatory..."cuz they make my bike handle better".
I was at COTA for MotoGP this year. I met a guy who was there for the king of the baggers and knew nothing about MotoGP. He enjoyed both though. This is good!
I love hearing those big baggers strung out on the high banks at Daytona! Reminds me of when I was a young teen in Upstate NY and guys would meet late at night on the arterial thruway and set up drag races. Late at night when it was cool and the humid air was dense, those bikes would run great and sound beautiful. Sometimes you'd hear two of them take off and one would get off at the next exit, and one of them would just keep riding, leaving and you could hear that engine for miles and miles and miles. It was beautiful. I used to be able to tell the difference between Flatheads, Knuckleheads, Panheads and Shovels just by the sound. It was a beautiful thing.
Bagger racing is the equivalent to vintage NASCAR racing. You wouldn’t have guessed those massive cars were suitable for racing, but stock car racing was excellent marketing for selling cars on Monday.
Back when the HD VR1000 was raced, the stands at AMA races were full of first time fans. It put butts in the bleachers . The butts had beards, vests, and chaps too !
Even I cheered for the HD.
That was good for the sport as are the Baggers !
When I was younger the first thing that caught my eye was motocross and along with every young lad in our neighborhood. Now that I'm older (67) touring motorcycles specifically a 2003 BMW R1200CL fairing, bags etc. have gained my interest and I like to play on the curvy roads every now and then. I remember picking up a Cycle magazine just before I purchased my new 1975 Kawasaki 750 H2 (triple 2-stroke) and reading it was like the bible. Thank you, Cycle World magazine, for the Magazines and now what you are giving us on You Tube!
Battle of the Twins was my favorite class at Daytona. There were so many different bikes and International interest and participation was so strong. It was so much different from all the other races that were going on and of course it was cancelled. It should have been expanded to all the race venues.
I tend to like the hooligan races more. There are more bikes than the 2 brands in the bagger races. They just need to get those other brands in the hooligans more competitive.
It’s down to earth! Not overly complicated and just damn awesome to watch!
I agree 100%
Guys, thank you for producing this video!! I have been reading Kevin Cameron since the early 80's. Awesome to watch him and hear him! like someone did comment below, bring Peter Egan too! Keep it coming PLEASE!
Great video guys!!
Very much enjoyed the interview!!
I like the fact that they aren’t totally reliable. Keeping them from blowing up is part of the game. Makes it even more fun to watch.
Harley never succeeded (or really cared) about making a pure sportbike. It’s not their market demographic. So MotoAmerica invented a v-twin “race class” to lure the Sturgis crowd out to their races. The irony is that the baggers are now re-inventing what the Brit’s and Japanese already made after WW2. They went racing with war surplus, discovered what made a motorcycle faster and then invented the inline 4 motorcycle.
You cant say never cared. Or you dont know history. HD brought 750 twp strokes to daytona in the 70s. This was to beat kenny roberts. They would have. They pulled the plug on racing and never did it again after that. This is the American way. Invest nothing make millions. HD needs to thank all the Japanese bikes that were affordable. This is what old guys learned to ride on.
Don't tell Gilera and MV Augusta that the Japanese invented the 4 cyl motorcyle as we know it. Don't bother looking at Excelsior Henderson or Indian history and their 4 cyl motorcycles of the 20s.
@@paulfleming4710I don’t remember Harley having any750 2 stroke bikes? They had those 250 cc and 350 cc models that Walter Villa was winning in Europe but no 750 2 strokes
Somebody doesn't know their Harley history. There never was a 750 two stroke.
Mw6563, you would have to be a dunce to make the statement you did. Ever hear of Miguel DuHamel?
Great video and conversation, guys! I love KOTB and, honestly, it has gotten me interested in sport bike racing and found I also love the hooligans. Such fun stuff all around. I am an HD guy but with the utmost respect for Indian. The competition makes everyone better. Woooooot! Keep it going!!
Thank you, gentlemen, for a very entertaining and educational experience!
Kevin, that adventurous spirit you talk about was raised in me when you did the first article about the “new” M8 engine several years ago. I bought one and have loved every minute of ownership. Your enthusiasm is contagious and your experiences are a treasure to me. God bless you!
I hope the KOTB grows. It’s a awesome series to watch and it is easy to relate to these bikes
This was fun to listen to. Was curious how they were attempting to normalize output on the two different engine architectures; glad you covered that portion. Thanks guys! 👍🏼
Kevin is a wealth of information! I met him when he was with Kawasaki tuning some of the fastest riders.. ( too many years ago ).. I grew up riding an road racing in so. Cal. An now I find myself gravitating towards the king of baggers an the new Harley ST…
An old roadking police, suspension and a little motor work it's fun to ride and it's comfortable I tour and we chase around mountain roads been a harley fan as long as I can remember. king of the baggers hell ya root for the home team.
Its something to see in live and in person. Makes the MotoAmerican race day even more interesting and drawing the crowds. Everyone having a good time at races.
I’ve ridden sports bikes competitively for twenty years, and love the bagger racing, there is nothing better than racing something that’s not meant to go fast, go fast… what’s missing on all bikes is the fun gauge, Harley’s in general hit the fun point much earlier than other bikes. I think bagger racing is the future 😎👍🏻
great conversation.. thanks
Bagger racing is fun to watch, and I'm all for it, but it's popularity has totally changed the atmosphere of the MotoAmerica race at Laguna Seca. Now it's more like a biker rally than a roadrace event, and all the other classes seem to be the worse off for it. The vendors, the pit allocations.. it's all geared to the baggers now which is a bummer for me as a sportbike guy.
Bulbous fairings and saddle bags on a racing bike is the most ridiculous thing ever. It looks so stupid…BUT it’s racing so I love it just the same.
I am glad to see you cover this. This racing is still kind of raw. I love this. I love dragging floorboards and pushing young crotch rocket riders. They would look in there rear view to find an old man on a bagger with Apex hangers pushing them. They can walk away in long straights, but I can keep up in the twistiest.. 😂
I tried to put top of the line shocks on my bagger back in the 80's, and no one made them.
Can't wait until Buell enters the bagger class 😂
Back in the early ‘70s the Mountain Roadracing Association in Colorado decided they would create whatever class riders wanted. At Aspen there was a “Touring Class” for those who rode to the race weekend. The requirement was that you had to race with everything you brought with you, including your cooler bungee corded to the saddle. They even had a dirt bike class running knobby tires. Lots of fun!
Fascinating insight.
I was relieved to hear the interests, enthusiasm and approval from these two purveyors of technology.
The top riders of this class are some of the most loved characters in racing, I can't wait to see J.D. Beach joining their ranks 👍
My 01 road glide, which was cycle world's sport tour of the year in 01, it came w a13.5" Airide. currently has a hundred and seventeen cubic inch big bore(4.125") engine and runs tens in the quarter and a hundred and forty five miles an hour on its Metzler street tires
Great insights guys. 👍👍
I've always loved racing. It struck me as odd that people were racing huge cruisers until I watched this. My friends and myself always raced our bikes even though they were only street bikes so it makes sense.
Harley needed a class to compete in. Is why bagger racing was born.
Harley aren’t race bikes, unless you make a slower, shorter race series.
I ride a Harley, but not cause it’s faster than any 600cc sport bike I’ve owned.
Cause it’s a cruiser.
Baggers if they haven’t already will soon be the centerpiece of AMA racing series! P.S. this was very informative I learned more in this pod cast than watching bagger racing the last 2 years! Seems like no one cared enough to discuss g into the technical specs in this class.
Laughable, Truck pulls will be the centerpiece of AMA racing before Baggers will be. Bagger racing is a joke
Great topic guys. I couldn’t look away. 👍
And no, I didn’t mean like a train wreck.
The baggers series is great and Harley and Indian both are doing great things in this series. All the while AFT, the American Flat Track series is suffering from the lack of factory support from Indian and Harley Davidson. Indian still had the FTR750 as a dominant bike in the series. While Harley Davidson abandoned the sport all together. There are only two Harley Davidson motorcycles being ran in the sport without any factory support. Those being the XG750R supported by a dealer like Latus Motors and a XR750 from Dodge Brothers racing, that's rated on a part time limited schedule at mostly short tracks and halfmile races. There's talk of a an adventure tracker series starting up for just one race a Sturgis. Both Harley Davidson and Indian need to refocus their interests in AFT, instead of devoting all their time and energy in the Moto America Bagger series.
So many uninformed people in the comments saying they want to see Honda or bmw in the bagger races 😂😂😂. Tell me you aren’t in the culture without telling me! These bagger races were started bc Harley riders started making performance baggers and then some Indian riders jumped on board. Harley and Indian got behind the idea after a few years bc it also helps sell their bikes! A bmw isn’t a touring cruiser it’s more of a sport bike. And nobody has ever made a performance Honda or bmw. Stop trying to jump into a culture that has zero to do with those companies and there isn’t a market for it either! Let them start their own race. The consumers built this shit!
Harleys and Indian only in my opinion!! Let’s keep it All American!
@@scottyskydog They touched on this when they mentioned NASCAR. The attraction of NASCAR was the cars were family sedans, taxi cabs. The guy in the suburbs driving a Ford Galaxie could relate to it. Techno geeks liked F1 and Indy/CART cars. The average Harley/Indian rider generally doesn't care about Super Bike. It's not relatable. I believe NASCAR has gone down a path of trying to create spec series race car that in no way resembles street cars. And they have been shedding fans since that strategy has been undertaken. This KOTB is relatable to the majority of Harley and Indian riders who feel there is nothing for them elsewhere. Allowing Honda, BMW, et al, destroys that for the target audience. Just like allowing Toyota into NASCAR has hurt them long term. Call it boomer thinking but there it is. NASCAR might want to try Ford Explorers vs Chevy Equinoxes instead of whatever the cars are supposed to be now. YMMV, batteries not included, JMHO.
@@mikemccabe5492 well said!
Moto GP is huge in Europe , a Huge Fan Base Huge Budget.
Road racing in the USA is not very Popular. It looks to me like the King of the Baggers has about Doubled Track attendance. That's what pays to keep the tracks open and pays winning purses.
People who ride Cruisers and Touring bikes want to see Baggers race where as they are not so interested in seeing actual high performance Crotch Rocket type bikes race.
I ride sportbikes. and I love the bagger and Hooligan race series really fun to watch.
If I may suggest a topic, I've always been fascinated by the early 1900s murderdrome era of motorcycle racing. It'd be fun to watch you guys discuss it.
King of Baggers is great movement! Most of us used to ride dirt & super bikes. As u get older you need to slow down to a Harley! Lol
Some of us knew if we road the sport bikes we would end up dead. I do dumb shit on my harley imagine the dumb shit I'd would have done on a sport bike lol
Mark, I also happen to have a 94 Ducati (900SS), and I did tig weld a standard 18mm Lambda Sensor bung into the headers. What I learned is that the jets included in the common Keihin FCR41 carburetor kits for these 2V motors are wildly incorrect, but apparently they are also pretty tolerant regarding air fuel ratios and still manage to run.
Kevin has been my mentor since the 70’s.
I love your channel & I love Bagger racing & guys like McWilliams … I don’t think it will catch on in Europe though, our roads are too small
Do you guys have a million BMW GS with hard bags cruising around?
Sitting near turn one at the Indy Motor Speedway during MotoGp days laughing my ass off watching the XR1200 Harley-Davidson support race slide, wobble and complain around the course. What fun! It's entertainment folks.
I love the Baggers races because the bikes look older and are interesting. Modern race bikes just do not interest me at all. My cut off point as far as the last great looking racing superbike was the 1980 suzuki XR69 based on the air cooled GS1000 engine.
Indian Challengers have always used a slipper clutch, even the OEMs. Some other small facts were off, but overall great talk. I do find it funny how the motorcycle snobs lose their minds anytime they see anything KOB related. Most of them don't even know anything about it. I guess some just need to feed that ego.
Open the class up to Japanese and European twin cylinder bagger models - Guzzi Stelvio, BMW R-18s, Kawasaki Vulcans, Yamaha Road Stars, Suzuki Boulevards etc .... hell, even the multi-cylinder touring bikes like Gold Wings, or the BMW K1600s ..... the mind boggles :)
You say the bagger racing thing is uniquely american but Bagger Racing could have EASILY came out of Japan too. Japanese hobby niches are really interesting and they keep all kinds of racing alive. Bagger racing is 100% something I could see Japanese people coming up with considering there's a whole racing league based around dodge vans in Japan.
King of the Baggers has reinvigorated my interest in Racing. It's so freaking cool.
Just like in Aircraft design, if the plane looks right it'll fly right. I have the same philosophy in motorcycle design. If it looks right it'll ride right and people will want it. if it looks wrong it'll be wrong forever.
I haven't heard from Kevin in an age 🙂 he knows so much 😁
And we need to bring in new people to racing!👍👍
Kevin, HD has used piston cooling jets in Big Twins since 1999 fyi
you can race anything including lawn tractors.
What? $8k for a 135? Last I heard it’s $12k plus install. Total $15k
If we can race yellow school busses! Human nature is to race anything, and the real metal of real nascar was so much better then non recognized plastic today race vehicles!
Indian needs another Model of the Challenger built as a Performance Bagger. Lighter Crank , Stronger Frame sitting up higher .. Narrower Radiator ect..
Anything that brings more people to the track is great,superbike grid is sad
Mark doesn’t quite know what he’s talking about, luckily we have Kevin to grab the reins
The first race at Laguna was never supposed to be a one time race.
Yes indian used and is putting the slipper clutch in the baggers for us customers since 2020 or 21
My 2008 Buell Ulysess would be close to competitive in the Air Cooled Class of the BRL but I think they dropped the air cooled class for this year. Which just goes to show how advanced Buell's for back in 2008.
Spending $125 Million to shut down the new Buell Factory in 2009 was just another of Harley Davidson's Bone Head Ideas.
I had a Ulysses. Loved the ergonomics and the handling, the quirks and nags not so much. That bike fit me better than any I've ridden in the past 20 years. It would have been much better, however, with an engine and drivetrain similar to the Pan America's.
@@glennmuir5617 Yes I need to start saving my money for the New Buell That Air cooled Evo motor is very heavy and it roasts your balls on a warm day .. Also the gas boils in the frame if you get bogged down in City Traffic . My bike is the More Street oriented version with less suspension Travel and a lower seat height..
You can't expect to ride a bike like that off road with a 17" front wheel and very steep 23.5 Degree fork rake . You have to pay attention on a gravel road..
Miguel had big! big balls and no fear!
Bagger racing... as american as nascar! That's a slogan
Yeh, baggers and hooligans the Spirit of America! 👍👍😘
As good as rider aids are for the sport it sure is nice seeing the uninhibited skill of these riders. Makes for a great show!
I have fox shocks on my triumph
There should be no limits on this bagger racing except for having bags and being a big production bikeLet Honda do whatever they want and the other Japanese and Euro bikes too.The thing is that they won’t enter because people that ride Hondas could care less about Baggers and those factories know that isn’t their money earner like they have in Moto GP and WSB
Twins cup is where it’s at
Can we get king of the mini-vans too?
HAHAHA!
Why not! I've even seen semi trucks racing!
I've seen school bus racing !.
Aaaand.. the top 5 baggers are faster than the slower half of the SUPER BIKES! they match the midpac track times😮
I think GP and F1 are a total snooze... Too much tech takes the excitement out of it.
Exactly.
Too much intervention from on-board tech. The race engineers tell them what buttons to push and totally control the engine/'power unit' from the pit. If a car side slips a bit it's replayed 8 times because it's so rare. I'd rather have 1950's speeds and technology on the track than the robotic devices they refer to as race cars. Next will be driverless cars and we'll have the on track equivalent of Battle Bots.
Why not race American made baggers ? There’s no Porsches or Ferraris in NASCAR, but they still have a pretty big audience.
The only way you can have American iron racing is special classes. Harley became irrelevant in road racing 40 years ago and even dirt track rancing has seen them sliding backwards.
My gripe about "bagger" racing is they are not baggers. Not low, do not have huge front wheels, don't have functional bags, don't have forward controls. They just took Indians and Harleys and set them up for racing (against each other) but they are not, and never were, "baggers" . Type bagger motorcycles into Google and see what you get.
Next will be scooter class racing. Fact is, Moto America has sold American road racing down the tubes for a "show".
Racing is racing. I'd watch grown men race on modified pogo sticks.
As beautifully American as country music. Of course it becomes better and better with laps turned and money spent but country music is still country music.Spectical sells and it’s Super Bowl Sunday
This is HD trying to look cool. News flash: people younger than 60 don't think HD is cool. This is dumb and won't last. The only reason it exists is because HD is dumping tons of money into it. This is not "from the people." Baggers are being replaced by adventure bikes by the under 60 crowd.
King of the baggers is good
but i think the bagger racing league is a lot more interesting.
BRL is useless and they are trying to hard to copy KOB.
Like a lot of things competitive, it gets farther and farther away from reality/what it represents as time goes on. NASCAR was that way, SASS and KOTB too. These bikes have little to do with what you can buy in the showroom. The thing is, I'd bet a K1600B lightened up a little, a tune with slip-ons and better shocks would beat these...It is a bagger after all(And still be cheaper than the factory stock bikes Harley sells that are like this). It's an all a Work.
I bet your wrong. And don't compare these bike to NASCAR. Not even close. Oh and buy the way Indian offers there race bike for sale.
ohlins reservoirs and other race inspired parts on a bagger is just lipstick on a pig and I say this as an owner of a Harley. It was interesting to watch the first races until the manufacturers got involved. The new ST CVO still weighs as much as a regular Road Glide.
Not necessarily, you need to know what your doing building..... Yes, it takes alot more than a pair of shocks. It takes alot of $$$, quality parts and knowledge. I own alot of bikes from 200 hp Kawasakis to 200 cc Suzukis and everything in-between. Im a rider who owns HDs, not just a HD rider. I can tell you my performance bagger builds and Dyna performance builds can rip twisties (granted Ive been a daily mc rider since late 80s) and has humbled more than a few sportbikes through the So Cal mountains.
CVO comment doesnt mean much. Nobody considers a CVO anything more than a super duper paint job, some cubes and some cosmetic garb on a stock bike...
@@highwayman1218what do you do to remedy the low ground clearance/ lean angle?
@@colinbowman8816 Longer tubes. Taller shocks and BBC extensions. Even then when I'm really in it the boards will touch. I'm planning on a mid pegs setup from BBC soon.
They are not going to be happy when kowasaki and Suzuki get in there lol
The Hooligan class is somewhat unfair not allowing KTM's 1290 just because it ain't made in Hillbilly 'Merica....USA USA USA!!!!
I was thinking can't you race a super adventure r or s they race the harley pan america 1250 cc but then ducati could race there adventure bike V4.
KTM 1290 SDGT would win the Bagger show easily.
will PAN AMERICA RACING BE NEXT ?????
Strictly speaking they are racing in Super Hooligan!
Baggers exist to sell aftermarket parts, and it works. I watched em once or twice, but there are better things to do. Maybe have KTM build a 1390 Bagger and let em race. Its a V-Twin but too modern.
Who thought a tractor engine driven by a Skidoo belt could go so fast?
Personally not that it is not good fun and cool but I think it is shameful THIS is all America has as an answer to the rest of the world...seriously? The only thing we can do is flat track and "baggers"? I am dissapointed....I am 70ish so it looks like my lifelong dream of Harley building ME a motorcycle will sadly likely never happen. BTW pretty romantisized bunch of BS too re the roots of the "chopper" which I believe much much more sprang from guys trying to make the big heavy stock Harleys more rider worthy as a cheaper alternative to buying a Triumph etc ....which factually were much more to be desired back in the day
I wanted ohlins way before king of the baggers lol. Stock suspension on anything but cvo and st.. kinda sucks! For h.d.
Other thing is it's polaris vs harley.. indian has bin dead and burried more than once. But idk if this breath of life into harley racing ....would of happened without the indian brand tenant.
Suspension across HD baggers are crap and the same... The only difference HDs ST "performance bagger LOL" is crappy stock longer 13" rear shocks. Otherwise both CVOs and STs use the same garb as the other baggers....
Harley takes one of their road bikes racing , Indian design’s brand new Swiss racing motor and builds a racing bagger around it, surprised HD is even able to compete !!
KOTB is the ONLY Motocycle road racing I watch now...everything else is just BS. This is as close to the good old days of AMA racing back in the late 70's early eighties that gave the US the best road racers in the world. Real racing and innovation every year, that trickled down to the street bikes. I'm on the edge of my seat watching these guys go to the limit. I would never have considered a Harley or Indian until I saw these things race in this series. Now, I own a Sportster and I'm looking to get a new Low Rider ST and dropping a Crate 131R in it. Rock On!
Both H-D and Indian use slipper clutches... this old man is clueless.
The baggers are an interesting show but disappointed that you didn’t discuss the super hooligans as well. Those are the fun show for me. As for people not watching superbikes? The audience doesn’t relate and it’s a boring show on TV when Jake Gagne walks everyone from the start of the race. Not his fault that the others can’t match him on a consistent basis.