The two tone color is (besides it's nice look) oftentimes used in order to not get confused with the strands when tying the 4 strand plait (braiding technique).
Hi Robert! I am currently reading your book on saps and blackjacks and really enjoying it. I am fascinated with the history and use of these unique weapons, and without your compiled research, these weapons would be nearly lost to history and their incredible story left untold. I am thankful for your excellent book and for the craftsmen that continue to make the sap and blackjack available to us modern day enthusiasts
Love that reading message. That's exactly what I had in mind when I wrote the book, that it really was a history that was going to vanish if someone didn't write it down.
I made a modern tri-colored carnie Jack. It has a powerful monster spring shaft inside with a head made from a large hex bolt screwed into a large union coupling nut. Also has a warped checkered pattern on the head for a trippy carnival effect
That's a classic improvised sap-jack. My grandfather had a length of insulated copper tubing in his car. Never came across that British navy angle... thanks.
@@ObjectHistory ruclips.net/video/hWsDqdRqG9k/видео.html Here's the link i hope you could publish something on the simple cable jack as shown they seem fascinating
@@ObjectHistory is it a spring with lead or something in there I can buy one like this one of older one anywhere so I'm going to have a crack of making one my self do you know what a UK list of items I got to get to make one please I seen the exact same one on Fargo season 3 I'd love to owe one I've a lot of weapon knife dusters I know it illegal in the UK but I'm a weapon man I just love old School weapon you can't get I'd love a butterfly knife as well but I could only get a practice butterfly knife I'd love to turn it into a proper butterfly knife but this sap Blackjack can you send me a list to make my own if that not to trouble or if you wanna make me one to sell you look a master of what I'm looking for it such a beautiful piece man I what one I've come close to making one but I filled it will lead if I'll hit some one with the one I've mad I'll go down for murder no I wouldn't use it I just love wepons eBay there like a thousand pound like I got a thousand pound if you can send me a list or make me one I'd be much appreciated brother trust it a beautiful Peace your a lucky fella I seen it on Fargo season 3 and just fell in love with themit looks exactly like that to can you hook a brother up dude d 👍????
I just picked up my new Carny cable Blackjack today. Foster custom made it to my specs, I wanted it to be a total of 11" long and he nailed it perfectly, with the extra few inches I get more purchase on the jack with my big hands and have enough left over to still get a solid flop with it. Also, it fits perfectly in my Hill People Heavy Recon Chest Rig (hence why I wanted it no more than 11"). I've been comparing the P.S.I. on this thing against my D3 Protection Gonzalez 415 and this Foster cable jack hits much harder. I gently bang my head with the D3 415 and it actually feels kind of good. I do the same with this Blackjack and it rings my bell and my head hurt for about an additional 10 minutes afterwards. I just let the Blackjack fall onto my skull no additional force just gravity. The D3 415 Gonzalez would be much better to knock someone out without the risk of killing them or causing serious permanent injury. The force spreads out more with the D3 415 which would still give a flash knockout with less risk of caving his skull in at the point of impact. You could still use the Blackjack for a flash knockout but you need to greatly reduce your swing force to prevent crushing some poor bastards head in. As for striking less than lethal targets: arms, legs, elbows, knees the Blackjack would be a much harder hitter, this beast will shatter bone, not break, shatter. Another thing I love about this particular Blackjack (besides the beauty of it, wow) is that when you swing and hit something with it the force of the impact does not travel back into the striking hand. It all flops into the target. With the D3 415 It sends a large portion of your striking energy right back into your striking hand. It's just the nature of the designs. The D3 415 swings like a little club or bat and you get a solid reverb from the striking surface back down the solid shaft of the D3 415 into your hand. With the cable Blackjack none of the impact force comes back, it all goes into the strike. This is due to the cable design and the heavily weighted solid iron cast head. Also, the Blackjack is much lighter and smaller in girth. As I told Foster I'm going to be a danger to my family with this thing for a few days as I cannot put it down. I'm smacking everyone, the kids, the cat, everyone is getting a taste! The power is corrupting me!
Agreed. I get into a lot of the physics/martial arts aspects you mention in my book. Gonzales saps were designed by a policeman (as you probably know). He wanted a sap that could drop a subject while avoiding the kind of catastrophic damage a very flexible, hard loaded jack can do (like the carnie). He really did end up creating kind of a soft sap-traditional club hybrid. Dave/D3's recreations are the best IMO. Will do a video on the 415 before too long, lotta great history there. Meanwhile my Foster carnie is the most dangerous sap in my collection, a great example of the surprising power saps/jacks can have.
One other quick note. I've used many types of leather restoration and protection oils, pastes and such. The best stuff I use currently is this stuff: Renaissance Micro-Crystalline Wax Polish www.amazon.com/Renaissance-XTL-8004-Wax-Polish-65ml/dp/B003AJWN62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501202997&sr=8-1&keywords=renaissance+polish It may be something worth reviewing. I use this stuff on everything, knives, leather, wood, it's amazing stuff.
I carried an ASP as a Deputy Sheriff and I didn't think much of them. The upside to the ASP was ease of carry and the presentation is an attention grabber but the baton itself simply does not have the power I wanted.
Agreed. When I first became interested in the subject a few years ago, there was practically nothing to be found about them. ASP's- I've heard that a lot from LEO's.
I know those are recommended in some old sources. I always guessed that part of it is that it hits plenty hard that way so why bother really winding back when that adds to the chance of the opponent blocking your limb or dodging?
Yes, it's crazy that I haven't done much hands on stuff in my videos on saps, etc. yet, say vs. nunchaku where I've done a lot. I will once the worst of the summer heat is over.
Object History B&B buildings and bridges in no way pseudo law enforcement purely engineering but it was a somewhat flat with a handle like this with a slightly shorter lanyard
I am wondering if you would be able to do a video on where on the body you would use blackjacks and saps and such? some stuff I've read says that mainly you would use them on the head to knock out a person but then I read some other stuff that says elbows and hands are good places also. so I guess I'm also wondering just in general how you would use them and such.
Will do- I've added that idea to my spreadsheet. Not that I'm the authority or anything but I've surveyed a lot of historical incidents (old and modern) and have my own thoughts as a martial artist.
Cool will look forward to that video. Could I get a snippet of your thoughts on where and when to use a sap and such? Where on the body to hit and such? Thanks
Sure. I'm typing on my phone so forgive any errors. Also, disclaimer, I am of course not recommending anyone break any laws (as hitting someone with a sap would do). So, really any bony protuberance that comes up to the skin is a good target. Shin, elbow, collarbone, back of the hand, wrist, , etc. Muscle does a good job of observing shock so hitting there, especially the larger ones, would probably not have much of an effect. That being said any precise pressure point type attack would certainly not feel good (Charlie horse spot on the leg). When it comes to the head, that's serious business because you're endangering the target's for your health. All the obvious targets from a martial arts/weaponry perspective are vulnerable. Randomly wailing away on the skull is nowhere near as effective as people might assume. plenty of users in years past found that out the hard way.
I would like to make one of these but I'm not sure what size springs/cable I should be using. Or how the braid leather Really anything at all for that matter Real talk though got any ideas on the thickness of the spring or cable
I bought one of these off a hoopla booth man, when I worked the Midwest circuit still got it. Good club. Need to figure out out to.braid that pattern myself....Also personally I always prefer a cable jack to a spring jack.
@@ObjectHistory that would've been around 1999, spring jacks were more common if they were manufactured, but cable jacks were more common if somebody with the show made them. The pattern was referred to as "domino" I guess cause of the black and white, seen black and red before too, think they called the black and red "harlequin" patterned.. The guy who made mine had been travelling since the 60's, he also made those belts with your name across the back but he'd stopped leather working full time and ran the hoopla booth when I knew him. Jacks , slungshots, and "tire checkers" were still pretty common among carnies at that time especially guys who had a felony and couldnt pack heat... I liked that stuff because I was interested in the old ways and old days before the entire midway had to be "family-friendly" ...
@@maxmccullough8548 That's really great information. A lot of collectors thought cable jacks were recently invented by one specific maker when I first pointed out that they were historical. Appreciate it.
The maker, Scott Foster, does an actual 8980 throwback. He's the one who has seen the archival pictures of the original carnie jacks which may have looked 8980-ish in outline. I have a vintage Bucheimer 8980 and it is a wee little pup compared to this beast. I wouldn't say the outlines are identical either but could be wrong. You can check out my vid on it for a comparison. Thanks
Is there anyway you can sell me a power cord sap or black jack I'm also looking for a WW1 trench knife with duster and sheth please can you please let me know if you have any for sale thanks
For saps and blackjacks I'd strongly recommend the Facebook group 'Blackjacks, Saps, And Knuckledusters.' Most of the best makers are on there. It's a private group so you have to request membership but that's easy.
I personally like the lanyard because 1) You can quickly wrap it up like a hand strap anyway, 2) It let's you release the sap for grappling while still having it on you (doesn't seem like the hand strap allows for that) and 3) It gives you the full on flail mode as an option. But this is all just abstract theorizing for me. Old cops, bouncers, etc. with hands on experience may feel different but I've obviously researched their experiences/opinions for my book.
Good question. It's a matter of pros and cons as you might guess. Blackjacks are more easily hidden and therefore more effective at surprise strikes. They don't have to be first extended like a baton, assuming you meant telescoping metal ones of course. They can be used effectively in a much smaller operating space, this being the key advantage IMO. Meanwhile they obviously have far less reach than any baton. They also can't be used to block or for joint locks the way a rigid telescoping baton can. So, there are situations where you can imagine having a baton but wishing you had a blackjack and ones where you have a blackjack but wish you had a baton.
The two tone color is (besides it's nice look) oftentimes used in order to not get confused with the strands when tying the 4 strand plait (braiding technique).
Dang, that makes so much sense. Thanks.
My great grandfather was a sherriff and carried one in the 1930s.
Very neat!
Hi Robert! I am currently reading your book on saps and blackjacks and really enjoying it. I am fascinated with the history and use of these unique weapons, and without your compiled research, these weapons would be nearly lost to history and their incredible story left untold. I am thankful for your excellent book and for the craftsmen that continue to make the sap and blackjack available to us modern day enthusiasts
Love that reading message. That's exactly what I had in mind when I wrote the book, that it really was a history that was going to vanish if someone didn't write it down.
I made a modern tri-colored carnie Jack. It has a powerful monster spring shaft inside with a head made from a large hex bolt screwed into a large union coupling nut. Also has a warped checkered pattern on the head for a trippy carnival effect
Sounds awesome. I know makers have turned to the hex bolt over the years... nasty enhancer right there.
I remember seeing a video from the British navy about gutterfighting discribing using a piece of insulated electric tubing as a cosh
That's a classic improvised sap-jack. My grandfather had a length of insulated copper tubing in his car. Never came across that British navy angle... thanks.
@@ObjectHistory ruclips.net/video/hWsDqdRqG9k/видео.html
Here's the link i hope you could publish something on the simple cable jack as shown they seem fascinating
@@ObjectHistory is it a spring with lead or something in there I can buy one like this one of older one anywhere so I'm going to have a crack of making one my self do you know what a UK list of items I got to get to make one please I seen the exact same one on Fargo season 3 I'd love to owe one I've a lot of weapon knife dusters I know it illegal in the UK but I'm a weapon man I just love old School weapon you can't get I'd love a butterfly knife as well but I could only get a practice butterfly knife I'd love to turn it into a proper butterfly knife but this sap Blackjack can you send me a list to make my own if that not to trouble or if you wanna make me one to sell you look a master of what I'm looking for it such a beautiful piece man I what one I've come close to making one but I filled it will lead if I'll hit some one with the one I've mad I'll go down for murder no I wouldn't use it I just love wepons eBay there like a thousand pound like I got a thousand pound if you can send me a list or make me one I'd be much appreciated brother trust it a beautiful Peace your a lucky fella I seen it on Fargo season 3 and just fell in love with themit looks exactly like that to can you hook a brother up dude d 👍????
That Carnie Jack is beautiful. I just contacted Foster and he is making me one I cannot wait to get it.
Tell him where you got the idea LOL
I will.
I just picked up my new Carny cable Blackjack today. Foster custom made it to my specs, I wanted it to be a total of 11" long and he nailed it perfectly, with the extra few inches I get more purchase on the jack with my big hands and have enough left over to still get a solid flop with it. Also, it fits perfectly in my Hill People Heavy Recon Chest Rig (hence why I wanted it no more than 11").
I've been comparing the P.S.I. on this thing against my D3 Protection Gonzalez 415 and this Foster cable jack hits much harder. I gently bang my head with the D3 415 and it actually feels kind of good. I do the same with this Blackjack and it rings my bell and my head hurt for about an additional 10 minutes afterwards. I just let the Blackjack fall onto my skull no additional force just gravity.
The D3 415 Gonzalez would be much better to knock someone out without the risk of killing them or causing serious permanent injury. The force spreads out more with the D3 415 which would still give a flash knockout with less risk of caving his skull in at the point of impact.
You could still use the Blackjack for a flash knockout but you need to greatly reduce your swing force to prevent crushing some poor bastards head in. As for striking less than lethal targets: arms, legs, elbows, knees the Blackjack would be a much harder hitter, this beast will shatter bone, not break, shatter.
Another thing I love about this particular Blackjack (besides the beauty of it, wow) is that when you swing and hit something with it the force of the impact does not travel back into the striking hand. It all flops into the target. With the D3 415 It sends a large portion of your striking energy right back into your striking hand. It's just the nature of the designs. The D3 415 swings like a little club or bat and you get a solid reverb from the striking surface back down the solid shaft of the D3 415 into your hand.
With the cable Blackjack none of the impact force comes back, it all goes into the strike. This is due to the cable design and the heavily weighted solid iron cast head. Also, the Blackjack is much lighter and smaller in girth.
As I told Foster I'm going to be a danger to my family with this thing for a few days as I cannot put it down. I'm smacking everyone, the kids, the cat, everyone is getting a taste! The power is corrupting me!
Agreed. I get into a lot of the physics/martial arts aspects you mention in my book. Gonzales saps were designed by a policeman (as you probably know). He wanted a sap that could drop a subject while avoiding the kind of catastrophic damage a very flexible, hard loaded jack can do (like the carnie). He really did end up creating kind of a soft sap-traditional club hybrid. Dave/D3's recreations are the best IMO. Will do a video on the 415 before too long, lotta great history there.
Meanwhile my Foster carnie is the most dangerous sap in my collection, a great example of the surprising power saps/jacks can have.
One other quick note. I've used many types of leather restoration and protection oils, pastes and such. The best stuff I use currently is this stuff:
Renaissance Micro-Crystalline Wax Polish
www.amazon.com/Renaissance-XTL-8004-Wax-Polish-65ml/dp/B003AJWN62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501202997&sr=8-1&keywords=renaissance+polish
It may be something worth reviewing. I use this stuff on everything, knives, leather, wood, it's amazing stuff.
nice to see these making a come back. Im ASP certified but i just simply find them to be unreliable.
I carried an ASP as a Deputy Sheriff and I didn't think much of them. The upside to the ASP was ease of carry and the presentation is an attention grabber but the baton itself simply does not have the power I wanted.
Agreed. When I first became interested in the subject a few years ago, there was practically nothing to be found about them. ASP's- I've heard that a lot from LEO's.
A quick flick seems to do more damage
I know those are recommended in some old sources. I always guessed that part of it is that it hits plenty hard that way so why bother really winding back when that adds to the chance of the opponent blocking your limb or dodging?
sweet nearly needed this today
That sheds alot of blood
That's what a lot of the old intel says. Definitely an unintended result of the design.
Oh yeah, definitely on my want list.
How about a demonstration sir
Yes, it's crazy that I haven't done much hands on stuff in my videos on saps, etc. yet, say vs. nunchaku where I've done a lot. I will once the worst of the summer heat is over.
AWESOME piece man😎👍
Thank You
Beautiful ! And in my Club colors !
I’ll immediately buy the one on front the braided biily club please post a link these are hard to find
Thanks.
great vid as always fyi my grandfather who was a B&B inspector for pensi and carried a sap and a 38
Awesome! What kind of inspector? Also, do you know what kind/shape/configuration?
Object History B&B buildings and bridges in no way pseudo law enforcement purely engineering but it was a somewhat flat with a handle like this with a slightly shorter lanyard
I am wondering if you would be able to do a video on where on the body you would use blackjacks and saps and such? some stuff I've read says that mainly you would use them on the head to knock out a person but then I read some other stuff that says elbows and hands are good places also. so I guess I'm also wondering just in general how you would use them and such.
Will do- I've added that idea to my spreadsheet. Not that I'm the authority or anything but I've surveyed a lot of historical incidents (old and modern) and have my own thoughts as a martial artist.
Cool will look forward to that video. Could I get a snippet of your thoughts on where and when to use a sap and such? Where on the body to hit and such?
Thanks
Sure. I'm typing on my phone so forgive any errors. Also, disclaimer, I am of course not recommending anyone break any laws (as hitting someone with a sap would do). So, really any bony protuberance that comes up to the skin is a good target. Shin, elbow, collarbone, back of the hand, wrist, , etc. Muscle does a good job of observing shock so hitting there, especially the larger ones, would probably not have much of an effect. That being said any precise pressure point type attack would certainly not feel good (Charlie horse spot on the leg). When it comes to the head, that's serious business because you're endangering the target's for your health. All the obvious targets from a martial arts/weaponry perspective are vulnerable. Randomly wailing away on the skull is nowhere near as effective as people might assume. plenty of users in years past found that out the hard way.
I would like to make one of these but I'm not sure what size springs/cable I should be using.
Or how the braid leather
Really anything at all for that matter
Real talk though got any ideas on the thickness of the spring or cable
Join the FB group Blackjacks, Saps and Knuckledusters if you like… there are a lot of makers on there you can ask.
I'd be creative and experiment with springs and weights. When you find one that works, wrap it how you want
I bought one of these off a hoopla booth man, when I worked the Midwest circuit still got it. Good club. Need to figure out out to.braid that pattern myself....Also personally I always prefer a cable jack to a spring jack.
Very cool. When about was that and were cable jacks common (or uncommon but present) then?
@@ObjectHistory that would've been around 1999, spring jacks were more common if they were manufactured, but cable jacks were more common if somebody with the show made them. The pattern was referred to as "domino" I guess cause of the black and white, seen black and red before too, think they called the black and red "harlequin" patterned.. The guy who made mine had been travelling since the 60's, he also made those belts with your name across the back but he'd stopped leather working full time and ran the hoopla booth when I knew him. Jacks , slungshots, and "tire checkers" were still pretty common among carnies at that time especially guys who had a felony and couldnt pack heat... I liked that stuff because I was interested in the old ways and old days before the entire midway had to be "family-friendly" ...
@@maxmccullough8548 That's really great information. A lot of collectors thought cable jacks were recently invented by one specific maker when I first pointed out that they were historical. Appreciate it.
looks more like thats really a Bucheimer 8980 blackjack
The maker, Scott Foster, does an actual 8980 throwback. He's the one who has seen the archival pictures of the original carnie jacks which may have looked 8980-ish in outline. I have a vintage Bucheimer 8980 and it is a wee little pup compared to this beast. I wouldn't say the outlines are identical either but could be wrong. You can check out my vid on it for a comparison. Thanks
We actually sell real Bucheimer and most people are knocking them off. It's not real weight that's distributed.
Is there anyway you can sell me a power cord sap or black jack I'm also looking for a WW1 trench knife with duster and sheth please can you please let me know if you have any for sale thanks
For saps and blackjacks I'd strongly recommend the Facebook group 'Blackjacks, Saps, And Knuckledusters.' Most of the best makers are on there. It's a private group so you have to request membership but that's easy.
Do you prefer the hand strap or wrist strap (lanyard). Can't decide which would be more effective.
I personally like the lanyard because 1) You can quickly wrap it up like a hand strap anyway, 2) It let's you release the sap for grappling while still having it on you (doesn't seem like the hand strap allows for that) and 3) It gives you the full on flail mode as an option. But this is all just abstract theorizing for me. Old cops, bouncers, etc. with hands on experience may feel different but I've obviously researched their experiences/opinions for my book.
Whats the weight?
I’ll find out for you, don’t have a scale at home.
Where can you get these in united Kingdom
Answered in the other video chat. Thanks
Why would you use this instead of a metal baton?
Good question. It's a matter of pros and cons as you might guess. Blackjacks are more easily hidden and therefore more effective at surprise strikes. They don't have to be first extended like a baton, assuming you meant telescoping metal ones of course. They can be used effectively in a much smaller operating space, this being the key advantage IMO. Meanwhile they obviously have far less reach than any baton. They also can't be used to block or for joint locks the way a rigid telescoping baton can. So, there are situations where you can imagine having a baton but wishing you had a blackjack and ones where you have a blackjack but wish you had a baton.
8 times the impact forces of a ridged object of the same length and weight thats why
About how long is this blackjacks body?
Exactly 8 inches tip to tip not counting the lanyard.
Object History thank you sir