To share a little story: When I was 14 yo, I was in my uncle's house and my 2 older cousins were teasing me while I was trying to put some D batteries at a radio or whatever to see if it works. We are used to a bit of rough play, so they thrown some sparrying punches at me (light ones, not intended to hurt). I had one battery in each hand and gave them "light" punches to the stomach and arms. They complained quite a bit, as if I had "really heavy hands". This surprised me a lot, it was not planned. Latter that day we tried a variety of objects as hand loads, including lock cores and rolls of coins. They were perfect! So the all 3 of us started to carry these wherever we go, during the rest of our school years. Never used it in a fight, however.
I'm glad I found this channel, there are very few that elaborate on the application of impact weapons, let alone the unique history behind them. Keep up the great work!
A group of my friends and I witnessed the police in action in our little village of 3000 when we were children. We saw our Chief of Police slap a fellow twice his size with an open hand and the guy dropped like he'd been killed. We grew up thinking this man was super human. 20 years on he showed me his palm sap, and things naturally fell into place. If you police a small town it might not hurt to have a fearsome reputation, or to hide the fact you used a weapon on some one. There are obscure considerations sometimes in weapons choice.
Palm sap, worn under a pair of largish gloves it turns a slap into a knock strike. Was once very popular with cops when rousting squatters & busting up unruly crowds.......
Interesting. You should try it on the back of the handle instead. These type of tethered hand weapons like these are good because you don't have to decide whether to release a weapon in order to grapple and hold people especially when on the ground. I've heard in the past the Ottamon slap was a thing used in war lol. I didn't appreciate as how much it can do vs a first punch till the new shows in Russia of slap boxing. Seeing those make you appreciate how devastating a proper can can be. Seeing how it's compromises your fist to the point where it may cause you to break you fingers when used as intended, I think it would work best in a hammer fist or back hand. Then you can punch and slap normally. Having it to protect your bones on a backhand would actually work nicely. Neat find bud!
Thank you Hugh. I'm a believer in the slap as a fighting technique. One can be launched and landed more quickly than a punch and it has kind of shock effect. Granted I'm thinking more in terms of a an opening, surprise move. I have seen a special forces (forget the country) video where they're doing this big, swinging slap as a shot meant to drop someone. The palm sap fascinates me even though it serious practicality concerns with deployment. I guess the closest thing to a back of the hand version is sap gloves... a backhanded slap with one would connect with the lead and I'm sure be brutal.
@Object History Yeah its definitely an underrated attack skill for sure. It has 2 very nasty possibilities as well. If someone has to cup thier hand even in the slightest way as they did, and manage to land over the ear... which is very easy to do... I can only imagine the damage it does and the pain that would follow as it blows out the ear drum. That has to be insanely painful and can likely cause a person to take flight and re assess his choices and gather himself again so to speak... if he's even able lol. Then, I used to to think the whole chop to the neck was a Hollywood trope of sorts with how it can knock people out, like on star trek etc. But... a blow to the carotid artey is actually very hard to build a tolerance to it seems. Any blow to it is like hitting the reset button and just takes a person out. It's similar to how a liver hit works. Pretty fascinating. People can develop a defense to hard hits on the heads like most all boxers do over time. In fact a punch to the front of a head risks more damage to your hand than the person you hit. Much like how head butts work. It don't affect the person much. So yeah I think there's a very good argument the slap would be a much better attack that don't risk hurting the user as much. I'll watch you glove video. I haven't seen a sap glove yet but it makes sense. Seems to be more of a euro thing as I don't see them here in the states much. We don't see many weapons like that much I think because guns are a thing more here than elsewhere is likely why tho. I like the idea tho as it's quiet. So yeah I'll watch it tonight. Have you seen the modern slap boxing tournaments now yet? It may be right up you alley. Watching men do that to each other than have been trained is so dam brutal. To watch it in slo mo really shows how much more energy can be transfered when done properly. There seems to be 2 types also. One like we see in movies where it's fast abs makes a loud clap. Then the 2nd is a far more brutal type where they seem to aim at a point past the head in a way. Then they follow thru and push the head to that spot. It's less loud but really jogs the brain in the skull, imo more so than a punch can by most people. The victims head moves like 8 inches or so at a speed similar to a car wreck. These seem to be as you said long swooping attacks, at sometimes lower speeds vs a bull whip like arched slap. Hard to describe really. I need to sit and dive into the Ottoman slap I heard about. I suspect it's much like what I see the pros use. From what I see tho I'd much rather take a quick punch to the face than risk a artery or ear strike. That stuff looks horrific when done right lol.
I understand that these weren't real popular with police because they would interfere with your ability to use a handgun should the fight escalate onto a deadly force situation. They were real popular with bouncers in bars and strip clubs. If you ejected a patron who decided to force his way back into the establishment laying this thing against his collar bone or upside his head would quickly discourage that behavior.
Yes, the gun issue was a real one for police. It's not the most versatile weapon design of all time, that's for sure. More of an interesting curiosity.
I have to Steel plated version on palmsap. Similar like greenmanleathers make. That thing broke some bones if you bloc punch with you palm. Nice video.
@@Sbacek86 I found you can use the one for the right hand on the left hand reversed - giving you a back fist slap and the same for a left palm slam on the right back hand. Would be nice to have sap gloves made to do both, maybe slightly less thick.
How is David doing these days? He seems rather hard to contact electronically lately, and I’m curious about his pulling his videos of his saps/jacks/leatherwork...
@@ObjectHistory I bought one from Green Man Leather which is rectangular and has a cut out made for right hand - if works for the back of the hand fine on the left hand. Used for jabs - I ordered one made for the left hand so I can use both hands like that. I would like to find a short glove type with saps for both palm and back hand sewed in.
A long time ago I had a pair of weighted fingerless gloves, where a weight was snapped in the palm and one on the back hand. Easily removable. At that time, I thought - what a great self defense tool. But the weights were 1 LB each and to big to not cause attention.
Oddly enough, pre-glove striking used a lot more of the back knuckles and palm for striking, less so the breakable bones linear to the hand. Very few animals punch, the circular whipping action that you call a slap, is biomechanically the same as a clawing action. We just deliver blunt impact instead...think "bear with no claws".
It can unless it's on nice and snug. And to get nice and snug seems to be something that would delay deployment. I had to figure out a way to bend my fingers as I swing to be assured it would stay in place. Definitely one of the more impractical weapon designs you'll ever see but these were a real thing and used on the streets for decades. Almost exclusively as a sucker punch (actually slap) tool.
From what I have seen, this example is a little too large. When the load about the size of a disposable lighter you can make a reinforced fist. However, a soft cupped hand delivering a heavy loose slap is devastating striike.
I've made something like this when I was younger out of lead from wheel weights melted into the bottom of a can and wrapped in duct tape and a spare strap from a book bag. It seemed pretty effective even tho I never used it.
I want to purchase this exact one. I see it here and there even on an internet search but I can't buy one. Even Your links provide no satisfaction. Message Me on Facebook.
To share a little story: When I was 14 yo, I was in my uncle's house and my 2 older cousins were teasing me while I was trying to put some D batteries at a radio or whatever to see if it works. We are used to a bit of rough play, so they thrown some sparrying punches at me (light ones, not intended to hurt). I had one battery in each hand and gave them "light" punches to the stomach and arms. They complained quite a bit, as if I had "really heavy hands". This surprised me a lot, it was not planned. Latter that day we tried a variety of objects as hand loads, including lock cores and rolls of coins. They were perfect! So the all 3 of us started to carry these wherever we go, during the rest of our school years. Never used it in a fight, however.
Nice. Sounds like my friends and I as well... all kinds of EDC experimenting that fortunately never got used.
I'm glad I found this channel, there are very few that elaborate on the application of impact weapons, let alone the unique history behind them. Keep up the great work!
Loved reading that. Thank you.
@@ObjectHistory i wanted to point out that for about 100 years men wore gloves.
A group of my friends and I witnessed the police in action in our little village of 3000 when we were children. We saw our Chief of Police slap a fellow twice his size with an open hand and the guy dropped like he'd been killed. We grew up thinking this man was super human. 20 years on he showed me his palm sap, and things naturally fell into place. If you police a small town it might not hurt to have a fearsome reputation, or to hide the fact you used a weapon on some one. There are obscure considerations sometimes in weapons choice.
I've heard the same kind of thing regarding police use of sap gloves... no one knew for the longest time where the knockout power came from.
Palm sap, worn under a pair of largish gloves it turns a slap into a knock strike. Was once very popular with cops when rousting squatters & busting up unruly crowds.......
Hmmm...it's a nice-looking little weapon, and definitely useful.
Not practical though
Interesting. You should try it on the back of the handle instead. These type of tethered hand weapons like these are good because you don't have to decide whether to release a weapon in order to grapple and hold people especially when on the ground.
I've heard in the past the Ottamon slap was a thing used in war lol. I didn't appreciate as how much it can do vs a first punch till the new shows in Russia of slap boxing. Seeing those make you appreciate how devastating a proper can can be. Seeing how it's compromises your fist to the point where it may cause you to break you fingers when used as intended, I think it would work best in a hammer fist or back hand. Then you can punch and slap normally. Having it to protect your bones on a backhand would actually work nicely.
Neat find bud!
Thank you Hugh. I'm a believer in the slap as a fighting technique. One can be launched and landed more quickly than a punch and it has kind of shock effect. Granted I'm thinking more in terms of a an opening, surprise move. I have seen a special forces (forget the country) video where they're doing this big, swinging slap as a shot meant to drop someone. The palm sap fascinates me even though it serious practicality concerns with deployment. I guess the closest thing to a back of the hand version is sap gloves... a backhanded slap with one would connect with the lead and I'm sure be brutal.
@Object History Yeah its definitely an underrated attack skill for sure. It has 2 very nasty possibilities as well. If someone has to cup thier hand even in the slightest way as they did, and manage to land over the ear... which is very easy to do... I can only imagine the damage it does and the pain that would follow as it blows out the ear drum. That has to be insanely painful and can likely cause a person to take flight and re assess his choices and gather himself again so to speak... if he's even able lol.
Then, I used to to think the whole chop to the neck was a Hollywood trope of sorts with how it can knock people out, like on star trek etc. But... a blow to the carotid artey is actually very hard to build a tolerance to it seems. Any blow to it is like hitting the reset button and just takes a person out. It's similar to how a liver hit works. Pretty fascinating. People can develop a defense to hard hits on the heads like most all boxers do over time. In fact a punch to the front of a head risks more damage to your hand than the person you hit. Much like how head butts work. It don't affect the person much. So yeah I think there's a very good argument the slap would be a much better attack that don't risk hurting the user as much.
I'll watch you glove video. I haven't seen a sap glove yet but it makes sense. Seems to be more of a euro thing as I don't see them here in the states much. We don't see many weapons like that much I think because guns are a thing more here than elsewhere is likely why tho. I like the idea tho as it's quiet. So yeah I'll watch it tonight.
Have you seen the modern slap boxing tournaments now yet? It may be right up you alley. Watching men do that to each other than have been trained is so dam brutal. To watch it in slo mo really shows how much more energy can be transfered when done properly. There seems to be 2 types also. One like we see in movies where it's fast abs makes a loud clap. Then the 2nd is a far more brutal type where they seem to aim at a point past the head in a way. Then they follow thru and push the head to that spot. It's less loud but really jogs the brain in the skull, imo more so than a punch can by most people. The victims head moves like 8 inches or so at a speed similar to a car wreck. These seem to be as you said long swooping attacks, at sometimes lower speeds vs a bull whip like arched slap. Hard to describe really. I need to sit and dive into the Ottoman slap I heard about. I suspect it's much like what I see the pros use. From what I see tho I'd much rather take a quick punch to the face than risk a artery or ear strike. That stuff looks horrific when done right lol.
That takes "bitch slapping" someone to a whole new level.
Good optics. Great info. Subbed.
I understand that these weren't real popular with police because they would interfere with your ability to use a handgun should the fight escalate onto a deadly force situation. They were real popular with bouncers in bars and strip clubs. If you ejected a patron who decided to force his way back into the establishment laying this thing against his collar bone or upside his head would quickly discourage that behavior.
Yes, the gun issue was a real one for police. It's not the most versatile weapon design of all time, that's for sure. More of an interesting curiosity.
I can see many ways to make them better allready .
awesome video
Joggers best friend whit loose gloves.
I'll have to think about that, have carried a sap while running for years.
I have to Steel plated version on palmsap. Similar like greenmanleathers make. That thing broke some bones if you bloc punch with you palm. Nice video.
@@Sbacek86 I found you can use the one for the right hand on the left hand reversed - giving you a back fist slap and the same for a left palm slam on the right back hand. Would be nice to have sap gloves made to do both, maybe slightly less thick.
Sbacek86 good for bagua zhang .and wing chun technique's with a snug pair of glove with one for each palm .
How is David doing these days? He seems rather hard to contact electronically lately, and I’m curious about his pulling his videos of his saps/jacks/leatherwork...
Don’t know really. It’s been a while.
Which is more powerful a palm strike or a back fist using a palm sap for both?
I would say definitely the palm strike because the tool makes the contact directly instead of its force transferring through your hand.
@@ObjectHistory I bought one from Green Man Leather which is rectangular and has a cut out made for right hand - if works for the back of the hand fine on the left hand. Used for jabs - I ordered one made for the left hand so I can use both hands like that. I would like to find a short glove type with saps for both palm and back hand sewed in.
A long time ago I had a pair of weighted fingerless gloves, where a weight was snapped in the palm and one on the back hand. Easily removable. At that time, I thought - what a great self defense tool. But the weights were 1 LB each and to big to not cause attention.
Wow, 1 LB each is massive for this kind of thing.
GML's look really interesting, need to get a pair.
Oddly enough, pre-glove striking used a lot more of the back knuckles and palm for striking, less so the breakable bones linear to the hand.
Very few animals punch, the circular whipping action that you call a slap, is biomechanically the same as a clawing action. We just deliver blunt impact instead...think "bear with no claws".
Probably why one of the old informal names for a palm heel delivered via a swing (e.g. not a thrust) was bear swat.
With That The Bridge Of The Nose Is Perfect JMO!:)
Looks like it would go flying off your hand as you used it.
It can unless it's on nice and snug. And to get nice and snug seems to be something that would delay deployment. I had to figure out a way to bend my fingers as I swing to be assured it would stay in place. Definitely one of the more impractical weapon designs you'll ever see but these were a real thing and used on the streets for decades. Almost exclusively as a sucker punch (actually slap) tool.
From what I have seen, this example is a little too large. When the load about the size of a disposable lighter you can make a reinforced fist. However, a soft cupped hand delivering a heavy loose slap is devastating striike.
This would be a perfect compliment to a person with Wing Chun training.
I've made something like this when I was younger out of lead from wheel weights melted into the bottom of a can and wrapped in duct tape and a spare strap from a book bag. It seemed pretty effective even tho I never used it.
Finger sap is better, looks like you’re wearing a ring from outside, doesn’t come loose, same impact force
I’ve actually never owned a finger sap… need to buy one to play with… and agreed. Palm saps are interesting but just not a very practical design.
Put it on under gloves
I want to purchase this exact one. I see it here and there even on an internet search but I can't buy one. Even Your links provide no satisfaction. Message Me on Facebook.
Sent you a FB message