Cummins R 2.8 vs VW TDI Diesel Swaps! Pros, Cons And Your Questions
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- Опубликовано: 17 апр 2021
- Today on Dirt Lifestyle we are diving deep into the diesel swap world! Volkswagen TDI vs Cummins R 2.8 is a common comparison when folks are talking about swapping a diesel into their Jeep, Toyota, Truck or SUV. Between Ian and I we have some decent experience in swapping diesels so this seemed like a great opportunity to answer some of your questions about what is entailed.
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#cummins #diesel #tdi 
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Re-watching this video and realized I misspoke big time lol. I wasn't the first person to use a TDI in a hard-core offroad rig. I was the first person (I could find) that used a TDI in a hard-core TJ. Let me explain...
For many years I searched forums, FB groups and RUclips for anyone that had TDI swapped a jeep wrangler but also built it for rock crawling (40s or bigger). I found zero builds that were put together this way. The fact is, in those days very few people thought that the TDI was capable of the power required to turn a big tire.
So when I say I was the first guy to do it I'm referring to a big tire TDI wrangler build. Sometimes in conversations like this you don't explain everything in the way you would like lol. That was the case here 👍
Yeah, i heard that and said to myself "you've never been on pirate" . O think we all knew what you meant though.
I hear ya brother. Happens to the best of us. I understand well. My non-technical friends are constantly asking me loaded questions like what is cryptocurrency or how and why does my crypto mining rig work. They dont even have the basic building blocks of basic knowledge to understand even the gist of it. I do my best to dumb it down and make it understandable then they will go find some random article written by a journalist that doesnt understand crypto one bit and then say shit like, "that's not what this guy says" or "I think you are wrong about x,y,z". When you kindly remind then that they dont even know enough to know what they dont know, everybody gets ticked off. I'm just over here wondering how I ended up with friends that are nothing like me, and do not have the same hobbies?! Too much about me, you are the man Nate! I appreciate you sharing knowledge more than you will ever know. Really appreciate you man!
No harm done, I understand the internet is full of people that will take anything you say and flip it into something it’s not, but us guys that are just here to listen to your conversation and maybe get some ideas for our own builds aren’t going to blow anything out of proportion. Good work both of you, I’m considering a diesel crawler myself.
More Q and As!
You're good Nate, don't think anyone here is gonna pull a "gotcha" on something relatively insignificant that you were talking about mid conversation with a friend 👍
In Australia it’s uncommon to have a 4wd with a petrol in it, pretty much every 4wd you see is a diesel .
I guess all over the world but in USA and Canada.
The way it should be. But not in America. All the bubbas know is small block Chevy.
That is so true everywhere in the world drives on diesel in it actually is clean.
We do have closer proximity to fuel stations and less long isolated trails in the middle of no where where efficiency is a major factor. We prefere big block v8 cause we don't go very far here in the south
problem with diesels, here,in aus. is,the toyota/nissan 4.2 are the best to have, but there gutless. when you get into common rail,computer. its scary in the desert, 1 thing shts,you burn it. i have the f250 4.2tdi. 12.5 lt 100, with 700nm, 170 kw. no computer,no glow plugs all mechanical gears,no belts.. reliable as a rock..yes,it has a bigger turbo.. 145 lt tank,std. 85 lt std ford tank, in tray aux.. go toyota..
Good to see Ian on your channel. I remember watching him and Jessie Combs (R.I.P.) on Power Block way back when Spike TV was TNN.
That was a GREAT conversation.
You should honestly do these more often, even like an hour conversation with someone like Ian once a month could be awesome, and if you put it on a podcast you may be able to reach new people.
Thanks guys this Q&A really helped embolden me on my R2.8 decision. I’ve been planning my swap for a few years now and flip flopped between the TDI and R.28 for a while. Thanks for the great input to the community!
Love Guy Fieri
I LOL'ed
🤣🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
Bahhhhh. Hahaha 😂
I run a 6.x liter humvee engine in a ford ranger.... In a majority of what I wheel....diesels suck. But it works well all around and way....waaayyyyyyyy better fuel economy on 42 inch tires.
@@bobbywalter5320 what are you talking about
I just wanna point out that the Suzuki guys have been pre-tdi swaps for many years now. Maybe not on documented youtube but definitely on forums. Great Q&A guys and all question I would ask. 👌🏼
I decided to do a 2001 24v cummins swap in my 68 f250. It has been a real challenge. I am hoping to have it running by mid summer. Great video, very informative!!!
This was awesome! A lot of guys aren’t honest in true cost of custom fabing new engines into old vehicles. Great conversation.
I could listen to you guys talk all day. You guys are titans whether you like it or not! I just finished 3 days of watching Ians big tire garage willys wagon build,, and now I'm checking in with all my favorite youtubers channels to catch the closing of EJS! Grest video guys. So glad you can get together and share your experience with us
Great convo! I think Ian had a good summary at the end of the current situation as it stands today. I've watched a lot of RUclips TDI stuff, and there's a lot of head scratching moments for folks that might otherwise be avoided with a Cummins. I also see the point of a TDI if you're chasing after weight. Knowing the BMX guy got it done is inspirational for beginners like me, so I appreciate you not downing him too much.
I love this video. I have been thinking of this swap for years but never have the money. The big thing stopping me is doing the engine mounts and lining everything up. I'm also waiting to get every last mile from my gas engine. This was so helpful. Thanks to both of you guys. Loving this. Keep it going.
I love seeing incrediboy featured on your channel!
Nate, your doin big things now bud! Good for you man! I love this channel! And its growing super fast! We're really happy for you!
Thanks brother 🙏
Thanks guys. Y'all kept my attention and answered a lot of questions I had about diesel. This was a good format. I'd like to see more of these.
Dude, Nate, it is so cool seeing you talk to Ian, I used to watch him on Xtreme 4x4 all the time. He and Jessi were the best! You both have inspired me so much. One day I'm going to build a true crawler with everything I've learned from you both. Thank you!
Thank you Nate for getting this together and getting down to the details in desiel swaps. Great content and information!
So much for me thinking a VW swap would be a cheaper way to go... awesome video. Ian’s the man from a fellow Canadian 🍻
It certainly can be. But you need to be ready for the consequences of reusing junk yard parts 👍
Great to see my 2 biggest influences in Off -Road fabrication in one place! Their methods in fabrication can be applied in all automotive builds and you can really create anything using parts that where never meant to work together.
Absolutely one of the best interviews/Q&A iv seen in a while. It’s crazy I used to watch Ian weekend mornings growing up and then to see him with you ( one of my favorite informative builders from the RUclips world) on a Q&A is kinda wild. Thanks for what you both do for motivation and inspiration. I’ve messaged both you guys individually and have gotten a reply, which is AWESOME! I am a little jealous Ian has his R2.8 running cooler then mine though ( of course he nailed it on the first try!). Keep on what your doing fellas
Thanks for watching man 🤘
I love the content with Ian. Ive been a fan of his since xtreme 4x4 days so I think it's great that you two get along.
COOL video Nate/Ian! I really enjoy BOTH your guy's channels! Thanks !
Super cool video man, really liked hearing you and Ian sharing your insight on motor swaps. Cool format, thanks for the upload.
I have to say thank you for having Ian on for this one. I would have to believe he has the most knowledge on this topic. The swap I had always wanted to do was a Detroit Diesel 6V92 and Eaton 13 speed with a divorced transfer-case into a 1 ton Chevy with a Caprice wagon body. I should have done it in the early 2000’s when I had access to all the parts.
Excellent video! Love to hear you and other rig builders spread the knowledge! Keep 'em coming, bud!
Now THIS is my kind of video! I'm go glad people are finally really embracing the diesel swap! When I used to live in the forums, all anyone ever spoke about was the 4bt, 6bt and the IDI and powerstroke engines, and most of the speech was just outright hateful. I'm so glad to see that people are coming out of their shells and experimenting with these little efficient diesels. This really warms my heart
Fantastic Q&A guys. I wish you two lived closer together and made this a regular format. That was the fasted 28 minutes I've watched in years.
Awesome video man and super cool that you got Ian on here to talk with you about this. I use to watch him build rigs on extreme 4x4 years ago when it was still on TV so super cool to see you make this video
That was an excellent discussion. I have been contemplating a R2.8 swap into my 69 Bronco and this has convinced me that based on my mechanical skills or lack thereof, that the R2.8 would be the best choice for me.
Great info Nate and Ian! Love it! I don't know if i'll ever do a diesel swap, but now at least I have a little understanding as to WHY i might. It does sound like it has its benefits!
Great video Nate! Really informative and I would like to pull my 4.0 from my 98’ TJ and swap a 2.8 Cummins. I was thinking about building a 4.6 stroker, but your video is moving me towards the diesel. Time to do my homework.
Thanks guys, you answered a bunch of questions I didn't even know I had!
Thanks Nate and Ian. You guys rock! Such good info from a couple of knowledgeable guys!
Wish you had this video out a year ago, getting my TDI swap running right has been a PITA. Not to mention TECH support would have been awesome! Great video guys!
Gentlemen, That was the best and most informative discussion of TDI vs. Cummins Crate that I have ever heard. Thank you for this very excellent discussion.
This was an awesome video, and it needed to happen. Having you too guys on the camera at the some time talking shop was excellent. Make it happen again.
This was a great video man! and I normally don’t like the talk videos . You and Ian made this very informative and easy to watch , even though I have no plans... or knowledge to do something like this . Lol that’s why me and the GF are buying a side by side for her to haul the kids around in when they aren’t dirt biking with me
Thanks Fellas! Very informative! Much appreciated!
Great to see you both together. A vast amount of knowledge between you to. Thanks again
Thank you for answering my question!!! I’ve been wanting to do the 2.8 swap in a mud buggy to crawl through swamps which will weight right around that 6500 pound range Ian was talking about.
Great interaction! Every time I see Ian I can't help but remover Jessi, Ian and the days of Xtreme 4x4. RIP Jessi!
Really enjoyed that one a lot. Now you got me thinking again about R2.8 swapping my single cab 2nd gen Tacoma 5speed. And I thought I had extinguished that dream.
Great Video Nate! this was very informative.
I have a 2017 ram 1500 with the 8 speed behind a hemi. I love my truck. Sometimes I wish I had the ecodiesel but then I remember my rig is being built for over landing. I thank you for all your videos. You are the reason I’m doing what I’m doing. I’m building rocker guards and will be building an overland bed rack. Also planning on building a front hidden winch tray and a few other mods and want to buy a Jeep to bash on.
EXCELLENT video Nate & Ian. I grew up around diesel power via farm and commercial tractors. I have a Unimog & its MB diesel power are AWE$SOME !!
This was an informative video. Very nice to the have the experience and expertise of Y'ALL.
Love diesels.
Got a Nissan 2.7 diesel in my range rover classic. Did the entire conversion myself including making the adapter plate. Iv never done a conversion before and did not have a clue what I was doing.
Did the conversion with basic hand tools and a cutting torch.
Several years later it is still going strong.
Nice! I was really eyeballing those R2.8 before they came out. Just wasn't sure about the diesel in the XJ offroad. Looks like a manual behind it would answer a lot of my questions. Thanks for answering many of my unasked questions Nate/Ian!
Been planning out my first swap. Going to be a 2JZ though, but dig the tech talk on something I know little about👍👍
thanks Nate and Ian....i learned a ton from this conversation... i was stuck on a auto trans...but now i think that an manual is the option for a trail rig...and a 2.8....thanks!!!! great video!
Thanks for watching 👊
I used to watch Ian's show on powerblock back in the day. Super cool to see him again.
One problem I have is when he says "if you're honest with yourself", nobody is ever honest when it comes to how much they're spending on their rigs.
So true. I rebuilt a '64 Land Rover 88 on a new frame, rebuilt the engine, etc in the early 2000s. I remember telling a buddy who was an experienced Land Rover guy that I was saving all my parts receipts so I could tally up the final cost and he said, "Oh, don't do that - it'll just depress you!", haha. Plus, nobody ever adds the cost of their time into their swap. Even if you're only accounting at a minimum wage rate (which you really shouldn't - if you have any decent wrench turning skill, your time is worth way more), it adds considerably to the overall cost of the project.
Great show ... I was glued to the monitor !
I appreciate all your honesty when it comes to pricing the swaps. There is so much misinformation on the internet regarding this topic. It seems as though sometimes it's a challenge to see who can make up the lowest numbers.
I was quoted $39,000 to swap a R2.8 into my TJ by a shop in Prescott, AZ. 😆😆😆 I really thought it was a joke, but nope!
Can you imagine having the cash to tell that shop, "Sure - go ahead and do it"? Damn, I sure can't! And I have a pretty decent job! Any swap I choose would be me doing 100% of the work.
Thanks guys answered questions and opened rabbit holes
Torque is the name of the game. I am 61 years old. I have a 2001.5 Cummins H O 4X4 completely stock. 245 HP and A Neice broad torque band of 505 at its peal. 🙏 I hope it out lives me. Of course it has cost me in repairs and maintenance but not 70,000. As in a new truck. Thanks for the video.
Two of my favorite 4x4 gurus
I agree with Ian on the torque and manual transmission magic. I did a Toyota 3L diesel swap with a turbo and intercooler in a manual 4Runner with 5.29 gears and 37s. One of my wheeling buddies asked my why I was riding my brakes up a climb. I explained to him that it was climbing a little too quickly at an idle and I was trying to slow it down over some of the obstacles. I can power brake that thing and do slow burnouts in 2wd at an idle. It is basically unkillable in it's lowest gear and you will either climb, lose traction, or break something.
I'm currently working on a 6.5TD swap in a FJ80, but this one will be in front of a 4l80e.
One of the best vids! 👍🏻
Awesome convo!
This video was perfect, I have been trying to decide what engine to stuff in a Scout 80 with 40's thanks. R2.8 it is now I just need to finish up 20 or so other projects so I can get it done.
I like the addition from Nate right before cutting “and rattle”. 👍😆
Lol
The aftermarket on the TDI's is crazy big. You can get forged con rods, girdles, ARP head studs make make 350hp reliability. They just don't have the same for the R2.8 yet. Also you can get a ALH TDI and make it all mechanical if you're a luddite.
This has been something I have been considering after spending 25k on my LJ without even getting into the motor yet. Thanks to you both for helping me understand that my ass needs that cummins if I do this hahaha
Dude this was insanely helpful
Thank you for that! Cleared up a lot of questions I had about doing a diesel swap! I’ve been flip-flopping back-and-forth between TDI and the 2.8 Cummins. Super informative, Nate when are you and Ian going to do a build together. I would love to see that!!!
It would be great to do a build with Ian. Maybe one day 👍
I think these discussions reinforce to me that the days of regular dudes learning to build up rigs are going away because factory support and oem builds are just so good. I cant help but think that there isnt much point in doing smaller rigs when you can just buy something even better and use it more than you wrench it. I bought a 96 discovery 1 as my first project truck and rebuilt the whole thing, although I have loved building it, at each stage I ran into issues where it needed a major, expensive upgrade, and all I could think of was if I did all of these things, I might as well have bought a brand new bronco or something because it simply would have been better overall in the end, not to mention all the work id save. I think the cummins R2.8 is a seriously interesting option, and I hope it keeps expanding. My next build I am hoping to do a classic mercedes G wagon cabrio with a manual and swap a cummins into it (the orinigals were NA diesels with like 50hp). Keep up the good content!
Incredible! When the R2.8C came out I thought it was around $12Gs. Great info for the beginner and the average wrench turner. 🙏
as of july 20th,2023 is $9,999 on cummins website.
Love the video! The ending probably helped me the most. I'd planned on a TDI but lack the talent I've guessing to do it, although some online make is seem doable for us mere mortals! I have run 5.9 Cummins for 20 years so having a baby Cummins fascinates me, although I'm coming from a different perspective of the two of you. I'd rather be closer to 40mpg than blow black smoke all over! I'm not going to run larger than 31" tires.
Great vid. Very informative. Just wish it had gone longer. Thanks guys!
Thanks! I wish it was too.
Great stuff, guys. Enjoyed the content. Gonna swap a Cummins into my WJ.
Sonic was dating himself with the Over the Top reference. 😂😂
This was awesome!!! I have had interest in Diesel engines for a while.
Fantastic video Nate/Ian your dead right when its comes to swaps i done minor swaps gas to gas , never the other way and am considering it in a few years when i retire and will go with the R2.8 Cummins hands down, its not expensive for what it is or what you get, 1st it has a warranty , and comes with everything you need i have watched over a dozen videos on these engines and best of all you can get service or parts for it any where in Canada where i live or the USA, there is a Cummins service centre within 50 to 100 miles of anywhere you drive on or off road, the money part is the easy part, its the build part you must choose to put in the time and sacrifice other things in order to make your build happen to completion , awesome video 👍
I swapped an R2.8 for a small block Chevy in my ‘76 Land Cruiser. Luckily, my fabricating Cummins mechanic friend helped at every step. I couldn’t have done it without his help. Now I could.
Blew the original motor in my 1973 Jeep CJ5 a week or so ago(number 6 cylinder decided to chuck the rod and put a nice silver dollar sized hole in motor...fun times) and while I planned on swapping the motor and trans at the end of the summer(I hated the heavyduty 3 speed it came with), it looks like I'll be doing it sooner than planned. Cotybuilt and their 1.9 TDI kit keeps coming up in almost every video I have watched. Personally, when I started thinking about engine swapping to a diesel rather than the 4.0 V6 from a 1991 Cherokee(more hp and torque than the other 4.0 V6s that Jeep made), I liked the idea of more power, torque, and fuel economy that you get with a diesel. This will be my daily driver that I want to be able to take down trails to go camping, no super hard-core crawling, just some moderate off-road driving. Cotybuilt has a TDI 1.9 kit with pretty much everything I need for $5500(only thing I'm not sure if it is includes the trans, which if it doesn't I will probably go with the gas 4.0 V6 because for around the same price($5500) I can get a remanned motor and trans (zero miles on either part and they have a warranty) and the other parts I need to install it. I only paid $3200 for the CJ5 and drove it home with no issues and one day I took a turn and shifted to third and a huge puff of smoke came out and I pulled it over and had it towed in. My mechanic and I popped the hood and saw the nice new hole in the motor and the rod just chilling down inside the hole...little bastard didn't even have the decency to blow itself and not be there staring at me like an petulant child. Anyway, is it possible to swap a late 90s-warly 2000s Cummins motor from a Dodge Ram that I can use a plug and play tuner(Think about the old Bully Dog boxes you used to see advertised on Hot Rod TV)? I know some frame reinforcement will have to happen since my Jeep only weighs 3750lbs gross weight and the engine I am asking about putting in it weighs sooo much more than then 4.2 I6 that came in it, and I am sure the 5 speed that mates to even the smallest Cummins engine that is plug and play tunable(as I understand the newer engines are not able to be tuned with a Bully Dog box or something of that sort). This will be my first diesel vehicle ever and wanted to know if it is even possible to put one of the older Cummins engines in the Jeep in the first place. Any info at all about my questions is greatly appreciated, and feel free to really break it down to the simplest answer possible since I don't know anything about diesel vehicles except how to drive them lol. Thanks in advance to anyone/everyone who tries to answer my questions, I don't want to go 4.0 V6 but if a diesel swap isn't really even close in price, I just can't see dropping twice as much money on daily driver. If I can do it for $5500 like the guy from Cotybuilt mentioned, then hell yeah I'll go diesel but $10k (or $14k for the other Cotybult kit) I am gonna have to pass...which sucks because I really want to go the diesel route...
Love the video Nate and Ian alot of great information. After watching your videos Nate I have wanted to do a diesel swapped WJ. I just recently found a WJ on craigslist that has a Mercedes-Benz 2.3 and was wondering if you had any opinions about this engine. Love your videos and work keep it up.
That was great ! If you had a mic going when you and Ian were on the trail it would have made a incredible podcast . Something to think about next time . 👍
Re rebuilding tdis etc before install. Motivation and seeing proof of the work youve done is a great boost and feeling. Fopr the most part after proof of concept is up and running, its no big deal to pull and rebuild. So many engines are sitting on engine stands with chrome valve covers etc and the fun is gone out of the project. Ever notice those stand engines with serious money spent on them after change of heart, wife wants more time and so on. Also most of this is weekend evenings after work. my 2c.
Thanks for the vid! This fall, I'm swapping the R2.8 into my 1981 Scrambler. Should be awesome!
Excellent information, thanks
Two Motor Heads telling it like it is for the benefit of others. Great video guys!
Great job guys!
those birds on the backround are a nice touch of nature
using an auto trans also shortens driveshaft length which causes problems in short wheelbase. Love this video wish there were more like this comparing true life scenarios and being honest
Another wonderful informative video
I was actually going to ask you about a R2.8/TDI comparison on the last video after your ride in Ian's rig.
I did my ALH mTDI swap into a Vanagon for way way cheaper than $10k, including adapter and self-made engine mounts/cradle. The donor Jetta had 204k miles, so I pulled the head and refreshed all the fiddly bits. There was no cylinder ridge and the cross-hatching was still visible. Awesome engines, and with a 12mm pump it's a torquey beast. Highly recommended.
That’s the build I’m planning for my 1st gen 4Runner. How much did it end up costing you?
I geeked out, extreme!! I get it. Ian, Is the name I gave my son(because my grandpa with parkinson's was named "john","(do your Irish research). I love the," Diesel Swap Drug" comment. " Diesels Rock and Rattle!"-Inspiring.
I appreciate all of your help with putting all your builds out there for the rest of us to learn from. I have an odd duck that maybe you could help me with. I have a 2014 VW TDI create engine that didn’t come with any info and I’m struggling with anything out there. Any ideas?
great video thank you!
Great vid and I think "someday" the R2.8 makes the most sense for me.
2 Questions I'd love to have answered -
1. R2.8, exhaust - what's available for a Jeep or is it a complete custom fab job?
2. R2.8 - can a guy get a set of jake brakes for it?
I’d love to see you both build something crazy !!!
Great vid. You guys are the best. You got any buying advise for diesel tow rigs? Looking at pre emissions cummins.
The 8hp75 behind the 3.0 ecodiesel in the wrangler is pretty damn good, absolutely loving the combo. With it, in 4low, it lets me start in 3rd. Found that out the hard way getting it stuck in mud in the backyard in the first week of ownership🤣
I'm shocked at how little content there is online about the 2.8. great vid sub'd
Dude great video, but when I put a VW CJAA 2.0 into my Jeep CJ7 it's pretty close to the torque and hp of the cummins 2.8 I picked up the engine with the wiring harness and variable turbo for $750 in fresno. The cummins r2.8 was just out of my reach on price. I never even opened up the engine just checked the timing belt. Runs great! Love the power and I put the hydraulic engine mounts in and vibration is very minimal!
This is awesome!
Excellent discussion.
Good video and information