how should you tune your skis? HOW I TUNE MINE
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Here is just a basic overview of a few key things I take into consideration when getting my skis tuned.
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If you want to see some sharp skis carving check out this video:
ruclips.net/video/oNuNZRoFnOA/видео.html
and this one:
ruclips.net/video/KZxS-JmdAb8/видео.html
I'm a professional ski tech and have been tuning skis for well over 10 years as well as raced for over ten years. I have come to the conclusion that the base edge bevel is changed to adjust the way the ski behaves, while the side edge is changed to adjust the amount of grip that you will get. I to ski an 87° side edge on all but my touring setup but might not recommend that for most people. Although a lot of people may be able to benefit from that angle, it makes the edge more acute and therefore will dull much quicker. If you are regularly tuning your skis, that will be fine, but an 88° will last much longer for many people while still having a fair amount of grip. I know some racers, particularly in the tech events will go up to even an 86° or 85° side edge which obviously will grip on even the slickest ice, but will dull very quickly and need to be resharpened after just a few runs.
For the base bevel, I think a 1° is standard and will work well in almost any condition. From my own testing, I have found that the base bevel doesn't increase or decrease grip as long as the side edge angle is adjusted accordingly to result in the same net edge angle. I would only recommend a .5° base bevel for people who are very precise on their skis because it could make the ski feel very touchy and could result in unwanted edge catches. It should be also noted that the higher the base bevel is, the more glide that you will get out of the ski. For example, downhillers will often use a 1.5° base bevel or sometimes even more so that when the ski is flat, the edge is in less contact with the snow. This is why sometimes when you see a downhill racer going perfectly straight on a flat ski (like the finish of Lake Louise), you may see the ski "swimming" or kind of spinning side to side a bit. This is because the only thing contacting the snow at that point is the base and the edge has absolutely no contact with the snow.
Overall, Reilly, I really like this video, a lot of useful information and I always love your technical breakdowns. Thanks for making people become better skiers.
Thanks for commenting and that is quite interesting. I guess the "twitchy" feeling is my personal feeling for what I feel if my ski is sharp or not. I had a slalom ski come out of the factory with a 0 base bevel (87 side) and skiing this on Colorado chalk was some of the scariest feelings I have had. After that day I put it inside until spring when there was the freeze thaw and tested it out on the spring snow and it was OK there to carve but still if i felt I needed to skid it (definitely not scary on the spring ice), it was not so forgiving still, but much better compared to the mid winter Colorado snow. I have skied on 0.5 0.8 and 1 degree a lot, mostly with 87, and sometimes 88... Never have adventured to the 1.5 base, which I am interested in trying in Japan actually but never have had the courage to get the ski to that angle yet... Mostly I just get the machines to set the base bevel for me and then hand tune the side edge when needed until i hit too many rocks and the base edge is destroyed again. I have tried hand tuning the base bevel many times on older sets of skis for practice but I was never able to get a consistent tune that I liked to ski.
I have never gone down to 85, but I know how fast my 87 degrees dull skiing on the ice here that I have not wanted to be bothered with to try an 85. I would rather skid around with no grip than tune my skis every second run while freeskiing 🤣...
This video is no means a deep dive into each setting for tunes, more just an intro to people who don't know about it or never thought about it and the snow conditions or the type of skiing they want to achieve.
I also think the persons alignment has a huge impact on how the tune feels too, so in the end the ski tune feel can be quite personal.
I do find it fascinating when I have my same skis at either 0.5 or 1 on the same snow they feel like completely different skis.
Thanks for your comment anyway.
#WillWanovich thank you for the information, you have taught me a lot as has #Reilly's video
Thank you for the knowledgeable comment! For utah skiing and an all mountain park ski like the armada arv 96, what would you recommend the side edge angle to be? 88 or 89? I plan on a 1° base bevel.
I think it really just depends on what you want to do witht the ski. If you use that ski more for arcing on groomers and really laying down turns, or if you tend to ski really hard/icy conditions often, I would go with an 88. But if you're maybe hitting some stuff in the park, cruising through the trees, around the mountain looking for side hits more than arcing turns, then I'd go with 89. The only downside is that with an 89, some people aren't used to having that much grip/control come from the edge and it can cause them to struggle and actually feel less confident in their skis and feel a bit out of control. I've seen it time and time again. I think while the the edge angles should kind of match up with the ski, they really need to match up with your style of skiing and what you want to get out of the ski. @@SjBall
Thanks for the info! My a daughter raced 10 years and she now coaches kids in racing. I’ve generally tuned at 87 and 0.5 base. Maybe I should try 1 degree at the base for a change.
Nice one Thanks for the information.
Great job Reilly -the only thing I'd add is the first bit of tuning is to get the base flat before you begin beveling the base. I'm in the Sierras most of the time and the snow is frequently hard which I like because I like to carve - so for me .5 to 1 is good on the base and like yourself I like 3 on the sides. I've tried flat on the base and it can be challenging although still fun but you have to remain focused - more like work. It's hard and time consuming to obtain these results by hand. 30 years ago I picked up a Moen wet belt sander, 6x80 belts. I had a machinist friend make some guides to do the side bevel as the old Moen could only do 90. The base bevel is tougher because the belt is not adjustable so I get that by hand. I also love when my edges are sharp and smooth. The general public would get a lot of of a ski tune and taking some lessons. I can't imagine skiing on a ski off the shelf. Generally they are convex under foot and concave in the tips and tails. One would think the manufactures could get them flat before they hit the shelf.
The new skis I am on when I was at the factory have the new best tuning machine, it came out of the factory very very good this time. Volkl could come out hit and miss, but they are pumping out big numbers and cannot have the same quality control on all skis and the tuning machines get serviced every so many skis so the first ones come out good and the last ones not so good I guess.
100% agree. Very useful video. A lot of people is not taking care their skis including some good skiers. That's really important if you ski on hard or icy snow.
Very interesting!
Thank you. I find myself in complete agreement. Very informative.
thanks for the comment! :)
Thanks so much Reilly. I’ve been tuning skis for some time now but am just getting to appreciate how often I need to do this. I’ve also been lately kind of shocked to see friends I ski with having not done anything to their skis in ten years. I guess they just gradually get used to them losing grip. I’ve made it my mission to take their skis home and tune them so they can see the difference.
My next video is exactly about this. I split it into two from filming the talking part yesterday to make it a shorter more bite sized video.
Excellent 👍...
I grew up playing hockey on sharp edges (so my brain just works that way). As an adult, on hard Eastcoast North America conditions, I use 0.7 base & 4 side on my SL skis, 0.7 base & 3 side on my GS & wider 88-under-foot skis. Anything more than 0.7 base in icy conditions and you're wiping out before you can catch it. I've skied a 0 base a few times on new race skis on ice and loved it - I'm tempted to just put my SL skis there full time. My daughter races on ice, I set her skis at 0.5 base & 5 side - and she wants them sharper
yes a 1 degree base will work well on everything but pure ice. I guess thats what you are skiing a lot to like a 0 base bevel!
My racing boys are 9 and 12 and I just started playing with the base bevel this winter. I've filed their SL skis to .5 base (with some ptex base bevel, we've got used skis) and 3 side angle, and they seem to be able to hold on course in the icy troughs of second runs a bit better, but still able to slide whenever they want. Is your daughter older or racing at a high level, never gets locked in a carve and spit out on the tails?
Thanks Reilly !!
87.5 👍
You need to address the factor base bevel, if the ski is at a 1 degree base, to change that ski to a .75 or .50, your shop has to grind away the base and into the edge to make this adjustment, takes away a lot of life from that ski. Plus ski companies put a 1 degree on the base of most all mountain skis that are over 90 under foot. Carving skis perform great with .75 or .50 , you can find factory’s base and side bevels on a few different websites.
Thanks for shareing!!!
No problem 😊
This is really interesting! I will try and get my skis tuned to 87 now (they are on 88). Thanks Reilly for this information.
the best way is to experiment and find out what works for you and your skiing style and level.
Great information bro .
😀
I'm surprised no one's mentioned a radial base bevel. My shop in Vermont uses a Wintersteiger Montana that can deliver a base bevel varying from, say .7º at the tip, to .5º underfoot, to 7º again at the tail. Gives tenacious grip without feeling as if you were stumbling over the ski. (Numbers are approximate, I guess, for the machine tune, but the skis ski awesomely.) I had a pair of consumer GS skis tuned recently to .5, and like you, I found the skis lacked versatility. Turn them up and they carve, but they do nothing else well. So I bought a .7 base bevel guide and radial-ized base edges to .7 / .5 / .7 and they're more fun in more kinds of snow, while still gripping hard.
Yes! Honestly I think this is the best solution for us hard carvers. Like you said it gives you amazing grip but still let's you in and out of the turns without having to be laser precise.
I ski in Ontario, so the ‘ice tune’ is my go to.
grip em and rip em!
Tks for the information. Just added another pair of Volkl racetigers sl. My first pair are 4 yrs old and I have 1 on the base 87 on the edge. The new pair still has the factory setting. I believe their website says .7 base and 87.6 edge. Our local shop can can go as low as .75 base, so I think I'll get this pair done with the .75 base and 87 side edge and leave the other pair at 1 and 87. I live in Atlantic Canada and we do get a few icy days.
I often skied a 0.75/0.8 (depending on what the shop machine could do) I think this is a good middle ground.
I m a ski man . My edges 88 both sides. Base is rather structured. 5 passes of yellow wax to clean it. Then the day conditions wax
A great topic. You always pick a topic that I have been interested in. The boot flex video was one of them. And, this one too. Thank you! I have tuned my Head e-Original to 1 degree base and 87 side like you do. I like the set-up in general, but was wondering if my not being able to hold edge on icy/slippery slope very well in the US East Coast attributes to my skiing skills or the ski tune. :D In any case, I wonder if you could talk about your philosophy on waxing skis sometime.
I have another video about tuning frequency that might help answer your question that will come out this week. I definitely feel like a 0.5 base bevel will hold better on really hard ice (my personal feelings and experience). A 1 degree on really really hard snow is not going to hold so well from what I have personally felt too. Even with the 87 degree side, but this is really hard ice I am talking about not just hard pack.
@@ReillyMcGlashan Great! I can't wait to see the tuning frequency video. Believe it or not, that's another topic that I have been wondering about. :D In any case, in the East Coast where I ski, the condistions could be nice hard packed, solid shiny ice, slush or cruds, depending on temp, rain, snow, etc. Even nicely groomed trails often reveals solid ice underneath in the afternoon after skiers and snowwwboarders scrape nice surfaces off. It's just unpredictable. My 66mm underfoot skis behave unpredictable when they hit ice and then cruds, for example. Maybe you could talk about skiing strategies in those kinds of situations. Or, I probably should get a pair of mid fat skis or something.
Спасибо, я даже не знал, что необходимо (или желательно) стачивать кант снизу хоть сколько-нибудь, а всегда точил только сбоку под 87 градусов. Однако замечал, что мои лыжи "агрессивны" при плоском скольжении, и надо с ними так или иначе работать на кантах. Теперь буду знать и попробую снять кант снизу хотя бы под углом 0.5 градусов.
На моих 0.5 градусов по скользящей поверхности, изначально. Режут склон отлично и по ледяному, но вот чтоб "short turn" тяжко. Придется для коротких поворотов с проскальзыванием в 0.8 -1.0градус переточить. Собрался другие взять для карвинга, иначе как вернешь потом обратно угол.
Cheers Reilly, interesting that you choose a less aggressive base bevel. When you go back from a 1deg to 0.5deg base bevel do you get your bases ground? I always thought that it was pretty easy to go from a less aggressive to more aggressive tune (as you are filing away the farthest side of the edge) but harder to go the other way as you need to file the edge near the base and would create a step from the base to the edge (or start to bevel the base itself). I have my piste skis at 0.7/0.8 and never change them (due to the above) but it would be nice to experiment. Keep up the great content - always a good watch. Thanks.
Good question 😃 I only ever get t
A good machine to change the base edge. If you have a 1 degree base bevel and you want to have a 0.5 base bevel the only way is getting the machine to grind it flat and start from scratch. If you have a 0.5 base bevel you can hand tune it to a 1 degree. I don’t do this though as it’s very easy to mess up the base edge and takes a lot of skill. I let the machine to the base bevels for me. Side edge hand tuning is easy though and I do this myself
@@ReillyMcGlashan Makes sense, thanks. I set my bevels initially by hand. They feel ok but maybe I am running a hybrid bevel with random angles along the edge 😂😂
@@angusgrizzly1730 maybe you are just excellent at base bevels. I am not and don’t want to waste time practicing and skiing terrible base bevels while learning. 🤣 the new machines are great at it so I leave it to the robots
Canadian east coast skier. Always skied at 0.5-0.75 base, 88 side. Don't ski slalom anymore, as I much prefer master GS type skis and longer radius all-mountain skis like the Volkl Kendo (18 to >23m). Works perfectly for the hard conditions we get here. But then I've always hated skidding the skis mid turn and will keep the skis on edge all through the turn. Ask me why I hate school break ski weeks when the hills are packed...
Also, going from 0.5 to 1 and back to 0.5 will go through the skis pretty quickly. When you find angles that work for you and where you ski, stick with it (unless you're sponsored or have unlimited ski budget).
Yes I changed them once this autumn on the glacier to 0.5 base bevel, and changed them back when the winter started and kept them at 1 base bevel since. I agree you have to be careful with how many times you tune them!
Great info but I think you mislead people slightly into thinking they can just change the base bevel on their skis from one day to the next. You can add base bevel but never go back unless you have your skis machine done back to flat. You kinda made it sound like you switch urs based on conditions and some will know what you mean but not sure everyone will. Otherwise good accurate info.
Ok
Ok
For powder rounded edges. Passes with abrasive gum. Round
Thanks. Excellent information.
Thanks for the comment 🙌
.5 degree base bevels hook up earlier in the turn; as you say; this is more technical and demanding. 1.0 base bevel hooks up too late in a 'real' turn as the ski is able to move too far out away from you before it hooks up. One degree is The Max; and only needed on FATS - because Sometimes a Skid Is Your Friend.
Everyone wants to start their season on a new ski or a 'nice new tune'. Well; I say phooey. Start your season on a 'decent' pair of rock-skis. Start the ski season on Last Year's tune. Save the big bucks for when you are stronger; not to mention fewer rocks sculpting your nice new tune. A little hand-work will do for the first ten days. Remember: your base bevel will only increase with 10 or 15 ski days and fresh Tunes last longer with More Snow.
Use a base-file and file guides to Test your base bevel. If you can't feel a .5 then it could be .75 and if you can't feel a .75 then it definitely time for a grind. Don't waste your money on a $125 stone grind without doing a little research. Learning how to use files, guides and diamond stones to fine tune for what you actually like to ski on is the mark of someone Serious. Pay Your Dues if yer lookin' fer more than 'entertainment'.
I'm skiing with approx. 0.5° bevel and 87°. The grip on icy slopes is much better with 0.5° than with 1.0°. On softer snow the bevel and edge angel is getting less important for my personal feeling and I can't feel a big difference between 0.5° and 1.0° bevel, because the snow is not so resistant and allows also with 0.5° sliding and drifting. The different views are very interesting.
it's more so you feel it in grabby aggressive snow, not soft breakable snow.
@@ReillyMcGlashan Okay, got it! I agree with you. ;)
Thanks, how often do you tune your skis or have your skis tuned in a ski shop?
this should help?
ruclips.net/video/39ZvTqCKnxQ/видео.html
Thank you! I agonize over these but you explained this so well. My daughter races, I now know what I'm going to do. For me, I'm tempted 1/3 but I think .75/3 is what I'm going to do for myself. Your explanations really helped. I'm looking for a carved turn but also like to steer.
Step 1: place beer on the waxing table
Step 2: run the file (cheese grater in a pinch) around the edges till you see little metal bits next to the beer
Step 3: stick wax - cause nobody’s got time to iron jack
The tune is complete.
Seriously though: a tune at my shop is 23 Euros per pair. I gotta do at least 8 every weekend. At those rates - we‘d have to take up rollerblading or something….
8 pairs a week? thats more than there are days in the week! Sheesh!
@@ReillyMcGlashan Be a Dad, they said. It'll be fun, they said. We got race skis, touring gear, slowboards....looks like a poorly organized ski shop in here.
@@mickeywakefield 🤣 i have a hard enough time taking care of mine and my wife skis!
I just get it sharp and go. 0 degree bevel. But, it's a good one.
would love to see you ski with a 0 base bevel 😁... i have done it before and was the scariest days of my life until i got them ground and re done!
Why is a 0 degree base level crazy? Does it just grip everything and no room for error then???@@ReillyMcGlashan
Really interesting that you feel that base bevel is so much more important than side bevel. I’ve always done 0.5/3 on SL skis but 1/3 on GS, and then 1/2 or 1/3 on all-mountain skis (where I ski in VT it seems the standard rec tune is 1/2). The theory I’ve heard on GS skis, was that you want to be able to get the ski further out from underneath your body before the edge fully engages, hence 1/3 or 1/4 instead of 0.5/3 or 4. Also, do you feel that a more acute edge angle (say 0.5/4) loses its sharpness or is more vulnerable to damage than a less acute edge angle? Or is it more just about how it performs and either way has about the same longevity? Years ago, I had a race friend who used to go 0.5 base to a 0.75 to a 1 base, all in the last 3-4” before the tip contact point - argument being a little less prone to hooking an edge but great bite over most of the ski once the ski was on edge (and a little more bevel just shy of the tail but less important). Made intuitive sense but probably over-thinking?! On a related note, I’ve always liked my skis very sharp virtually all the way to the contact point, tip and tail, for earlier edge engagement - especially in the tip, and then a full tune to the tail contact point to better hold through the end of the tail. How close to tip/tail edge contact point do you tune to or more accurately, where do you start softening that newly tuned acute edge with a gummy stone? I’m sure it’s different for a race ski vs a rec ski, so I’d be interested in both options if different. Thanks so much - great video series!
I have a carrot machine hand tuner, the sensor stops the machine before i get all the way to the tip and tail so my skis have always a detuned tip and tail for many years now. Not that I intentionally get the gummy out and de tune them, just a default of the machine I use but I actually like it this way.