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Evangelizing People with Same-Sex Attraction W/ Trent Horn
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- Опубликовано: 12 фев 2020
- Trent Horn goes into detail on how to speak to others with same-sex attraction, with charity and truth.
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The good Lord has brought me and my husband a same sex attracted neighbor. By providence I have been cooking him dinner once a week and showing him Christs love. I don’t know if he knows if I am a Catholic but I pray for him as I make the food. We never know how our Lord is using us to reach the suffering. May the good Lord be with you all ❤.
As an Italian who has SSA and struggles with it, returning to the faith and finding people who "wrestled" with me and made me understand it was a form of misplaced love and that there was another way to funnel that flame, turn it into something for my good through Him and not my own shelf destruction.
Indeed, we should not act on what we "feel" alone; I am far from healed, but I'm so glad I met do many good people who showed a stern hatred for the sin but true charity for me due to how they first learnt to trust in God.
Get out while you can and go to therapy. you are not living your best life.
@@mhdj1234 ah yes, the tutelage of Marilyn Monroe
Baroness of Barbiturates
Autocrat of Amphetamines
Sultan of Suicide
😐
Probably shouldn't take advice from her dude
@@mhdj1234do you believe in God and the afterlife ? Because if you don’t obviously your only concern is how you feel in this life. Going through the motion without asking yourself disturbing questions . But if you are a believer then your advice is problematic because the focus should be on the peace of living a life that pleases God and that doesn’t separate you from God and salvation , not the illusion of comfort .
This line of reasoning can easily be turned against Trent because I’m very concerned about Trent’s believes because it leads to other beliefs and because the harm it does to other people. Lucky what he believes is not true.
I'm definitely nowhere ready knowledge wise for apologetics, but do plan to really start educating myself, and take Trent's course through Catholic Answers; however, even tho I'm not super hotheaded, I don't know if I'd ever be able to stay as calm and collected in a debate as Trent can. That dude is a class act, and an incredible role model for keeping one's cool, and calmly turning to another fact to support his argument rather than getting petty and becoming a bit rude.
I pray for patience and prudence because I tend to jump the gun and pull out the “pedophiles experience similar...” and that doesn’t help people :(
Matt, as a gay man who grew up in the Evagelical South, I know that the vast majority of Christians, of every denomination do not hate LGBT people. However, to say that you love someone while at the same time believing they deserve to and will roast in Hell forever can never be loving. I just don’t get it.
We all deserve to roast in hell forever, for nobody is without sin. Jesus knew that, but He loved us so much that he payed our hellish debt for us
Christians are called to love everyone, but to love someone means to hate their faults. (not to hate someone FOR their faults, but to hate the faults themselves) Hate the sin, not the sinner
@@Crob0506 if you genuinely believe that you deserve to be tortured for eternity that’s your business not mine I get where you’re coming from but damn
We believe everyone deserves hell, even the saints, but those who enter into heaven are those who accept Christ’s offer of a way out of hell
@Dillon Leaf hate the belief not the believer
@@monkeymode7529 the at of sex outside of marriage is the sin. Being homosexual is a more noticeable to the public. God only knows I’m struggling with prob worse sins. It must be a huge cross to carry. God only knows. I need to fix my own room first before I can even think someone else is going to hell
You can be born gay, just as we are born heterosexual. 🤷🏻♂️
There is no specific scientific nor biblical reasoning for either of these statements. If anything the "heterosexual" norm that we are born with is merely reproductive, which suits a natural function. Other than that the attraction to anything specific is thought to be coded during our youth as exposure to stimulus gives us reason to leaning towards or away from certain predispositions. No baby is born with a desire for sex.
Much to the same its stated in the Bible that we shouldn't be lustful in our hearts or seek sex of *any* kind outside of marriage - and that marriage is fundamentally the backup plan given to us by God for if we (when we) inevitably fail to remain celibate.
So either through scientific reasonings or biblical - not only is it not a "birthright" to be gay, its likely the least desirable outcome between the three options of celibacy, straight and homosexual acts. A straight man sins when he has sex outside of marriage. A gay man sins when he has sex. There may not be parity in these two ideas but that is because there is a third option in which there is uniform parity - celibacy. Maybe the least "fun" of the 3, but also the least sinful. Food for thought though I suppose, scientifically there is no difference to a species in celibacy and homosexuality. The only way forward is through heterosexuality.
So either way, with a belief in God, or a belief in science - homosexuality is a bad option.
@@HarrisonSnellgrove I respect your devotion to your faith and I understand that one of the foundational supports of that faith (and your continued ideology/world view) is the belief that homosexuality is a choice. After all, if you didn’t believe that, then a kind of cognitive dissonance would begin to occur in your mind.
However, though you may have kept the cognitive dissonance at bay with a systematic perception of homosexuality…science and reality are discordant with that shield you’ve erected.
Sure, we can call homosexuality an “abnormality”…we could call it “wrong”…but the fact remains, people are naturally inclined to love others of the same sex. I think the misdirection in your excuse for this natural occurrence has a lot do with your attempt to shirk responsibility for your own negative opinions on the matter.
After all, it’s not YOUR problem, right? It’s not anything YOU have to contend with: you’re not gay. AND you have God to back you up! I mean, if God says it’s wrong…who are you to deny that? You’re only playing reactionary to what God says is right or wrong, after all!
To be “normal” and to point a finger at others in condemnation all the while, claiming God as your backup. I don’t doubt that’s a wonderful feeling!
But again, your incredibly removed from reality here. Homosexual acts may be a choice for some, I’m not denying that. Maybe it’s a “phase”? Maybe it’s “experimental”? Maybe two people drank a little too much and were really lonely, one night? But, to presume ALL homosexuality is a choice, is false.
If you have kids (I don’t) you also know that your argument that they are simply a byproduct of their upbringing and/or other stimulus, is obviously wrong. Again, for someone born gay, it’s as natural to love another of the same sex as it is for you and I to love someone of the opposite sex. No amount of forcing Barbie dolls on a girls or forcing G.I. Joes on a boy, is going to change that. VAST studies have been conducted and the data is glaringly obvious: predisposition/inclination is real.
Believing that homosexuality is a choice (and all other attractions are normal/natural) keeps you from having to make any real decisions. Think about it, as I said earlier, it’s their problem, right?
I wonder what would happen if you had to own up to all evidence that tells us it very well isn’t always “a choice”. Imagine if you felt homosexuality was wrong but also a natural occurrence. What then? What would your solution to the “problem” be? I mean, you couldn’t simply wave your hand and say, “they have to make better choices!”. No, I think you’d have to think hard on the matter and the “solution” that emerges may not be a good one. Is the answer to eliminate gay people? Send them all off to some foreign island? Identify them as subhuman without the same rights/privileges as the rest of us “normal” people?
Yeah, I say stick with the false delusion that it’s all a “lifestyle choice”. The monetary cost of surgery for some, the physical pain of body modification, the mental stress, Ostracizing from society, separation from family and friends, bullying, etc…
You’re right…it DOES sound like a choice people would love to make. ;)
@@Tennethums1 I dont think you've read anything in what I responded other than what you "expect" to read from someone on an opposing point of view.
Being gay doesn't have to be a choice for it to be sinful. The acting on a homosexual thought is what is a choice, and is what is sinful. Thats just the truth of the matter as given to us by scripture.
Whether you believe it or not, or think it is fair or not - those are the points that should be argued, but twisting an argument to suit your own agenda by claiming that anyone that follows the commands of Christ is simply condemning their fellow man to hell is simply illogical and shows that you don't understand the content nor the context of your opposition.
Is it unfair that "god made some people gay" (if I allow your point of contention) - sure. Only so much as someone else may agree that its not fair they were born polyamorous and are forced to have only one wife.
Only as unfair as some people being born without the word of god readily available to them.
Thats why some of us are passionate about educating and loving our brothers and sisters. Sexuality is a touchy subject for Christians because it is so clearly represented as a pathway to sin when not manifested within the covenant of marriage as per the bible.
The truly unfortunate thing that the content and context of the scripture mentions that you are not aware of and I'm sure would be a much bigger issue for you if you were - is that the covenant of marriage is meant for a man and woman (not because God hates gays) but because sex wasn't meant for anything other than procreation. Sin developed and with it lust and passions, and those passions led to renegotiations and the allowance that "if you're going to burn with passion and sleep with eachother anyway ignoring the word of God it is better to marry and procreate than to do it out of wedlock" - paraphrasing Jesus' direct words during a sermon.
That doesn't mean that decriminalizing homosexual marriage gets you off the hook for performing gay acts - because those are expressly forbidden. Again, no different than a man wanting to marry 8 women. It is simply not "godly" to do so.
I think what people who don't understand the context of scripture fail to realise is that sin separates you from God - but Jesus gives you salvation. Thats the whole tamale right there. Whether its sinful or not isnt what sends you to hell. Turning away from Jesus is. Theres always hope.
@@HarrisonSnellgrove So, you think homosexuality is a choice. I think you’ve made that perfectly clear: whether they are born gay, learn to be gay, made gay (by God), etc…doesn’t matter…the ACT of homosexuality is a sin. It “breaks the rules”, as it were.
So, what is your solution to “the problem”? Are you simply saying that gay people should go through life without intimate contact with others of the same sex?
I’m curious also (and this might help me to understand your perception of homosexuality), do you consider it to be akin to pedophilia? That’s to say, it might be a desire for some, but should not be acted upon?
@@Tennethums1 1. You are conflating being something with doing something.
2. I'm not the one with the solution - the word of god is.
3. You're continuing to build MY opinion up in your mind based on what you've heard others say in the past and its not productive nor accurate.
If we discover that homosexuality is in fact a "born this way" behaviour (hard to prove as we still haven't "proven" the alternative - that we are born to be heterosexual) then nothing changes based on how the bible states its case.
You can claim im being unreasonable or unfair or homophobic until you are blue in the face - but that doesnt change the fact that I still love gay people. I dont "want" them to turn away from God anymore than I want a straight person to through some other sin.
We ALL sin. Thats human nature. Modern morals do not supercede Christian ethics.
You know from a Darwinian evolution standpoint, homosexuality does make sense either. In Darwinism, species take favorable traits and pass them on to their offspring over thousands of generations. The whole point is to have traits that increase chances of reproduction and survival. Homosexuality is completely anathema to that. It does not encourage reproduction which is the entire point of a species’ existence according to Darwinists
This is not quite true, as far as I know. Homosexuality could be favourable within a particular gene line. It is about the gene, not the individual. A given action could benefit one genetic line within one's family, for example. I'll put an extreme case: a virgin that sacrifices himself in order for their nephews to survive. In such a case, they are not reproducing and hence they are not benefitting their line by not reproducing, but they are benefitting a shared gene with his nephews and such an action has a net positive effect(despite the negative effect of not reproducing) because they helped the reproduction of the shared gene.
@@natanaellizama6559
It goes even further than that. There are some interesting statistics about the occurrence rate of homosexuality, one of which is that the more children a woman gives birth to, the more likely those children are to be homosexual. What are the implications of this in terms of family groups and larger human societies?
Well, for starters, in means that those first few children are the ones most likely to have children themselves (and this likely figures into the historic thing of people wanting to have firstborn sons; if you have daughters first you're slightly more likely to have a homosexual first son, which matters in ancient societies where firstborn sons are expected and obligated to continue a lineage). The later born children who aren't reproducing are still participating in society, holding jobs, gathering resources, et cetera, and are more likely to be able and willing to invest some of those resources into supporting the older members of their family who are having children since they aren't having their own. They can also step into social roles that might be riskier for a parent, freeing the parents to focus on the children, or step in to act as a parent in the unfortunate event that a parent is lost, and so on.
So it's a brake on exponential population growth, and a way of encouraging larger families to focus more resources forward to a new generation already in development rather than producing more competition for those same resources. And since they're all coming from the same gene pool, the genetic components informing the emergence of homosexual behavior are already conserved within the lineage by its reproducing members.
All that aside, it is also very worth noting that being homosexual does not necessarily mean that an individual will never engage in reproduction. They're not sterile, merely not interested in pairing with the opposite sex. There are plenty of ways to work around that, since for conception all that is ultimately needed is for sperm to meet egg. Surrogacy is a thing. Artificial insemination. A homosexual woman's donated eggs are perfectly viable options for heterosexual women whose eggs, for whatever reason, aren't. And so on.
And some people just do it because they live in a social context where being homosexual is a death sentence and there's no better way to prove you aren't gay than by being in a heterosexual relationship with a child, no matter how you actually feel about it.
@@lamisabbey1938 this doesn't quite make sense to me. If nature made it that siblings are more likely to be homosexual in comparison to say a 1sr or 2nd born, and it's nature's way to put the brake on excessive population growth, then why on God's off does society encourage surrogacy and IVF? Especially the when there are orphanages everywhere where beautiful children need a loving home?
@@panes840 Well, first you have to understand that IVF isn't a thing most animals in nature can do and is something that's only been around for a very short time in the grand scheme of things.
Being able to select an embryo through IVF also isn't the same as actually having a number of children. The developmental processes that lead to the emergence of homosexual behavior in humans aren't tied to just the gametes involved; A woman using IVF to start their first pregnancy isn't 'skipping ahead' by fertilizing a bunch of eggs and then picking one to carry, because she's still never /been pregnant/ before; Her body hasn't undergone any of the hormonal and physiological changes associated with carrying a fetus to term which may trigger changes in how future pregnancies develop.
At the end of the day, we don't really know yet how IVF will impact the emergence of homosexuality in the human population over the long term because IVF hasn't really been around long enough or used widely enough to have a real map of long term effects.
As to why people choose IVF over adoption, you'd have to ask the prospective parents themselves. People, and families, have a lot of reasons for making the choices they make, based on their own circumstances. It really has nothing to do, at least directly, with the development of homosexuality and everything to do with whether or not IVF or adoption are even realistic options for a given parent prospect.
@lamisabbey1938 thank you for your response. I found it confusing in
Sorry to confuse you, but my stance on IVF is that I see no reason we should be doing it. If a couple can not conceive and there is no obvious medical reason that can be easily rectified, then I see it as God's will they don't have children. It may be that nature controls the population growth, and it could be because society behaves badly with regard to adoption children who DESPERATELY need homes. Many people can love another child as if it was their own flesh they just ha e to view things differently. Or who knows why. But I don't agree with it. My apologies, but the context of my original reply, I guess, was separate from the cause of homosexuality discussion. I find the act that a man does to either a woman or a man using their poop hole disgusting and turns my stomach tbvh.
I need to be evangelized because I just don't get it. Thanks.
If only you could understand. If only you knew how much more complicated this is. I wish you could see this through my eyes, as a gay Catholic. And how much videos like these make LGBTQ+ Catholics like me feel the need to repress our identities, our sexualities, because you see it as unnatural and sinful.
@@IloveMSmercedes No, the reason the Church is going down is because its 'tradition' can't keep up with society and the two don't mesh well. What ever happened to the Catholicism being universal? Caring for those most marginalized by society? It seems that many Catholics these days have forgotten the simplest of Church teachings in favor of super specific doctrines that don't reflect our progression as a society. They look at certain teachings that divide us and separate us. And you, a stranger, don't care for me as part of your Catholic family. I speak for my LGBTQ Catholic friends who struggle like me, who have left the Church because they are invalid and unwelcome. And it's people like you who continually discourage me from the faith because you seek to exclude and exterminate, instead of enlighten, discourse, and enrich.
@@tristanhuo6993 Yeah... that's why the Anglican/Episcopal "church" is flourishing! lol.
Hello, you dont repress your identity. Your sexual attraction is not the whole of your identity. We all have different struggles and have to try redirect them in the right way. Try to fill your mind and life with positive things. Develop other areas of your life, try to grow in virtue. Trust me, chastity if for everybody according to one's state of life. It's not easy I know but everything is possible through Christ.
@@tristanhuo6993 It's not a matter of keeping up with the times, but explaining its position through engaging with the people. Matthew Kelly explained in his book Rediscover Catholocism, that when the giant information upheaval of the mid-twentieth century to the present day began, the Church was tragically caught way off guard at the sudden shift in information perception and economic speed because of its past several decades of simple, traditional rites and worship that everyone just accepted out of faith. In its struggles to catch up and explain with the big change afterwards, people lost patience and trust in the credibility of the Church's position. The problem, however, wasn't a faith or credibility problem. It was a communication problem. And how many "late bloomers" in education and careers got prematurely judged or shunned when they failed to set the speed or record of accomplishments that their peers did during their training?
There are plenty of miracles and golden ages within Catholicism left! I'm seeing so many new and refined and wholesome resources for our Church these past few years, and although the world may be all the more hostile, I'm glad that I have these resources by my side to help me get through it all!
Brother, you shouldn't go to any other church, but stay in the Catholic Church, which is your only home, and carry your Cross, following the example of our Master: "Amen, amen I say to you, unless the grain of wheat falling into the ground die, Itself remaineth alone. But if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world, keepeth it unto life eternal." (Jn 12:24-25). If you are generous to Our Lord, the Church will teach you to carry your Cross in such a way that it doesn't even feel heavy all the time anymore, because Love overcomes all things. You will actually hold your Cross, even when it is bitter and heavy, like Christ did, for Love as a privilege. With Christ on the Cross there is no loneliness. You will rather have your Cross than not having it, because you will realize how much closer to God your are drawn and sanctified by carrying it; it will be a ladder of divine ascent. There is no Saint without a Cross, and no Cross without a Saint (Lope de Vega). You have a thorn in your flesh, thorns are the result of original sin, but it is up to you to elevate with God's grace those thorns into a Crown, as Our Lord did for us. Love your God: Put on your Crown of Thorns and elevate your hands as an evening Sacrifice, for the Cross is the only way to Glory. Jesus Christ has already given Himself as example. Then you will be glorified with Him.
People are born gay just like people are born straight. It’s not a sin to be gay.
You’re oppressing people and not letting them be who they are. No all loving god would punish you for being in love with someone of the same sex.
I am going to need to ask the apologetics a very simple question, "Are you ever tempted to have sexual relations with people of the same sex?" I doubt any would say yes, even if they say its a choice.
Do babies have any kind of sexual attraction when they are born?
They are quite fond of breasts😏
@@chrisfrench2118 🤣🤣🤣😜
That develops late I’d say after 10 you start to understand attraction and when you become 13 you begin to understand sexual attraction.
Why would God make individuals with homosexual orientations if they were never meant to act on it in any way? Seems twisted
@greyforge27
Watch the video. :)
God also makes those with short tempers and they are never meant to act on them.
With tempers, could we agree God likely makes them this way to overcome their faults and be a better person? :)
Sin exists on Earth and is a worldly temptation. God "allows" these feelings and struggles but he does not create them. Free will is a major part of our relationship with God and is why the sacrifice of his Son is so special. Regardless of the existence of sin in this world - brought about by "our" own actions (adam through eve via the deceiver in the garden) - we have a path to salvation and the Kingdom of Heaven. "Why did he let us sin in the garden then?" - Free will. It was always and will always be our choice to be freed from or bound to sin.
Life will never be fair, there will always be those with less of a burden to bear than you, and likewise you will sometimes have much less than your neighbour. The equalizer comes from the death of Jesus. Whether you are rich or poor in currency or Spirit, God was willing to forgive your shortcomings and only expects you to follow his Son through the Way. All of these ideas are laid out in scripture through parables - ideas that at the time were so radical to the current leadership that it was thought either "too scandalous" or simply pushed non-believers away (whichever historical context you wish to take).
So while the act of homosexuality may be a sin - it is only a sin when acted upon or allowed to take hold of your heart. This may just be the cross to bear for someone under the imaginings that they are "born" in a same sex only attraction. God never says you must find your wife physically attractive though it is implied to be a benefit - in fact - God never commands people to marry UNLESS they are otherwise unable to control their urges. So, if a straight man is able to control himself he should never marry, rather devote his life to God and the pursuit of good works - why would there be an exception placed on a man just because he was attracted to other men? The same expectation is there. Control your urge and seek abstinence if the alternative is mortal sin. If you attend church as you should, seek atonement, confession, repentance, absolution and grow as a Christian through a relationship with God not with the sins of the flesh that you were given access to the same as every other person alive.
The idea that homosexuality is an "unfair" sin because it specifies a group of people and alienates them to Hell doesn't hold water when Sin itself alienates ALL of humanity unless they follow Gods commands and seek him through his Son Jesus Christ.
These fundamentals are present across all denominations and iterations of christianity and are not a catholic only viewpoint. There is no argument about sin being bad for us and that we should avoid it. There is no argument that nobody is born without sin or access to sin via our world - save for ONE man. All of our destinations are the same and our vehicle to arrive there is the same. The only difference is the driver. You choose when/if you get there.
@@FuddlyDud anger and sexual orientation are incomparable traits. Nobody is born with anger issues, they develop. Someone is born with their sexual orientation.
@@nichobee
Wait, people are not born with anger problems?
I mean, I’d actually point to psychology and child development on how the beginning state appears to be bent to anger issues of tantrums, paralyzing frustration and anger, etc. What counters this is the additive good parenting and, even then, many children have disagreeable temperaments which can foil even the best and most prepared parents. :/
I’d generally agree people are born with their sexual orientation, but we can still discuss the ‘ought’ of whether they should act on it. For, we’d likely agree not all sexual orientations are good (enjoyment of children), so the matter is how we determine how we ought to act and what standard makes the most sense. :)
@@FuddlyDud anger problem is just an excessive manifestation of a natural emotion. So what is homosexuality an excessive manifestation of? See how they don't really connect?
You can't expect people to act on being heterosexual when they aren't born with that orientation. How are they supposed to be aroused?
Between Mobile, Alabama and Baldwin County, Alabama are two tunnels, the Bankhead Tunnel and the Wallace Tunnel. If one is going east into Baldwin County or west into Mobile one may CHOOSE which TUNNEL one goes into. No one forces anyone to go through either one. Nobody ever says oh, I was born that way, I can't help it if I only take one tunnel and not the other. Many are bi-tunnellers----sometimes they go through the Bankhead and sometimes the Wallace. But it's all individual choice.
you cannot choose what your brain gets excited by. It is random chance and experience that determines ones sexuality, One can not change it. therefore, we must live our lives as happiest as we can regardless of the bible.
@@beccak9866 The human brain does get excited about committing sin. That is very true. But we can't just act on what gets our brain excited----that is immature and narcissistic. Joe Jones might see that he could embezzle $300,000 from his employer and that might excite his brain, but if he acts on this he goes to jail in this life and Hell in the next. Sam Smith might be cruising the hood and see a streetwalker and his brain might get excited, and his male member might get excited, but if he acts on that excitement he goes to jail in this life and Hell in the next. Jack Johnson's brain might get excited after his seventh rum and Coke but if he drives home in that condition he could kill somebody.
Jesus says at Matthew 5:28 that any impure thought must be immediately banished from the mind. That goes for impure thoughts towards the same gender or the different gender. That takes discipline and without discipline our souls will not be saved. Giving in to whatever excites the brain is a sure path to eternal damnation.
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I don't know why they don't just say that they only believe Homosexuality is bad because the Bible says so? There's no other sound reasoning to be against homosexuality except maybe you get an "icky feeling" about it. I get an icky feeling about eating olives, but I don't have to eat olives; I just need to accept people that do eat olives as human beings that like something that's not to my taste. And there's nothing wrong with that.
It's not necessarily only because the Bible says so. There's the teleological argument which has its conception in virtue ethics about sexuality. Kant, for example, made an argument against many kinds of sexuality, and not because of the Bible.
One such view, whether or not you agree(I personally don't, but it's not an inconsistent view), is that the teleological end of sexuality is reproduction. Everything is oriented towards reproduction and child-gearing. That is why it is pleasurable, why it is reproductive, why it is bonding, but it needs to be consistent with such an end for it to be ethical. For example, masturbating in public to strangers may be pleasurable, but it is neither binding nor reproductive. Homosexual relations may be pleasurable and may be binding, but they are not reproductive. It is something not oriented towards the given order or end of the thing.
Kant, for example, makes also a broader argument where people are ends in themselves. To treat a person as an object would be to not orient yourself towards the end, because you are using an end as a means. In such a view, casual sex would be illegitimate because I am treating another person(another end) as a mere means for my own personal satisfaction and pleasure, and so on.
@@natanaellizama6559 Okay, generally when you dig deeper the main reason Christians believe being gay is wrong is because the Bible. They don’t go to Kant. Also Kant fails to consider that people might enjoy giving pleasure to someone else. If it’s mutual than you aren’t using someone as an object, that’s what rapists do. And if two people both mutually get pleasure, the reason for the sex is that pleasure not reproduction. Even if it originated as that, it’s something else now. It basically comes down to opinions not demonstrable views of reality and what’s good or bad for people. There’s no truth in saying that being gay is bad for human beings. That’s an opinion based on the scriptures. And the previously mentioned “icky” feeling. Because one person might not like it they assume no one “should” like it. I hope I addressed what you said right.
@@Hannovah
It depends on which Christians. But the point is that it is not merely self-referential. There's a philosophical argument that supports the theological argument. Of course, not necessarily most Christians will be philosophers, but there are philosophers who are Christian and there are also Christian philosophers.
Have you read Kant? It's hard to say that Kant failed to consider something if you have not read him, because he does talk about this. For Kant, even if you get pleasure due to pleasuring others, you are still using them as, say, a masturbatory device. Even if both people use each other as masturbatory extensions(I get pleasure from your pleasure and you get from mine), the onus would be in the pleasure received.
Yes, precisely because you are not following something for its natural end then you are doing something out of the order and hence you are being unethical. Your reasons for sex would not be aligned to the ends of sex.
It is not a mere opinion, it is reasoning. You don't demonstrate reasoning because it is not a visible object. You may think the reasoning is incoherent or inconsistent(which I could agree), but you need a powerful reasoning in order to show that(because Kant was a great thinker, extremely serious and rational). Have you thought seriously and hard about the issue?
You say that there is no truth in saying that X is bad for human beings is reasoning or your mere opinion? It depends entirely on your frame of reasoning(what is a human being, what is bad, how does it relate to X, and so on). The frame of virtue ethics is very coherent and consistent, and well-respected in academia. In fact, it is one of the most trending views of ethics. In order to seriously deny that you would need to present why it is really inconsistent or incoherent, not merely that you have a prejudicial reaction to its conclusions or something like that.
There’s a difference between doing something that I don’t like and doing something that I believe puts your soul in danger. Also, it’s definitely not just a s simple as “the Bible says so”, it’s instead an argument of intended human nature based on Catholic philosophy
@@monkeymode7529 And that Catholic philosophy is based on what?
Matt, I have a question and haven't been successful in finding an answer on the internet, so I'm hoping you can help. Is it okay for a man to dress up in drag even if he's living according to the church?
So, I'm not Matt, but it looks like you haven't gotten an answer so here's my $0.02: There is nothing inherently wrong with wearing clothing typically associated with the opposite sex in and of itself. Where sin might come in is when the person wearing that clothing does it for sexual gratification for themselves or others, or leads others to the sin of "scandal," meaning they encourage others through their lifestyle to pursue a sinful endeavor. Does that help?
I also find that a man dressing like an over the top woman is funny in that it’s starkly different. The “funniest” transvestites are ones that look like a man even though they’re “dolled” up. There’s comedy in it. You can see this in countless skits and movies (think Some Like It Hot or White Chicks or even when a character dresses up like a grandma in Tag). What’s wrong is when this goes from purely comical to sexually impure. So when transvestites do sexually implicit things as part of the act. Then it’s a sin of scandal and of dishonoring womanhood and subjecting it to disgrace.
Ewww
Nope its not
Do you have to defer to authority for any other aspects of your life?
Polyamory doesn't mean they sleep with anything that moves, it just means they have more than one partner sexual or otherwise. Stop strawmanning please. Also if the Church was always against Same Sex relationships that doesn't mean that that's a good position for it to take, food for thought.
You compared homosexuality to polygamy, and anger issues. You mentioned this but then completely changed the topic. You seem to spend much time saying absolutely nothing and changing the topic when challenged. Dissapointing.
he wasn’t challenged he just finished his point lol listen again
@D5280 it's called a false equivalence fallacy
Inadequate video - didn’t run through why actions that don’t hurt others are acceptable/unacceptable
That’s literally the opinion I played this to hear
Videos like this remind me of the terror of the old night
So the theme behind everything you say is deception, a wolf in sheep's clothing, pretending to care and listen, only to throw away the facade when the person lets down their guard.
Ok
This doesn't answer the question lol
@Qwerty can you be born gay
No.
Well, things aren't that simple. People have quite complex experiences.
@Qwerty well, I am saying that homosexuals or even heterosexual people might have a very different experience of their sexual life....and we should not be bothered by anyone's way of life...if they aren't commiting violence.
@Qwerty well, you have covered a lot. I think being religious doesn't mean that I should consider someone as good or bad, sinful or saint....that is up to God.
Secondly, there can be so many things in society which can be harmful for the social fabric but it is quite problematic to exterminate some group of people for the sake of others....if gay/lesbian people have different understanding of family which is not based on violence or Injustice....then they should have....
Thirdly, violence is not only a legal thing, it can be in any unjust behavior of human beings or any social aspect of society....by violent I meant any unjust behavior.
After all, family is not a static social institution, it might be manifested in so many ways....there is no absolute constitution of family. It is somehow based on the common understanding of any community or society.
@Qwerty well, I didn't say that Catholic Church announced such a thing!
@Qwerty I am not here to crusade on anyone's behalf.
To fight for someone or something....
I am just arguing and I might be wrong....I am not someone's advocate.
@Qwerty oh my God....
In my opinion, anyone can be considered “gay”. Some people just take it to an addictive level. Just as anyone can watch pornography and become addicted, looking at the same sex and be attracted sexually is something anyone can struggle with though some people find it much easier to not do that.
What do you base that on?
@@Mayeverycreaturefindhappiness for me, all it takes is an act of the will to indulge in homosexual thoughts and possibly be attracted to the same sex. I get the mindset of a man who is gay. But even when stray “gay” thoughts come to mind, I can push them out of my mind like any other unwanted thought, instead of indulging in it.
@@josephjackson1956 Citation needed lol
@@josephjackson1956 the overwhelming majority of men are not only straight but would NEVER entertain either gay thoughts or actions.
Shoet answer no. Long answer with suaceptability yes. At least that is what genetic data shows.
The answer is: No.
There is no scientific evidence for anyone being born gay. NIL.
We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. - Romans 8:28
Amen.
There is also no evidence for God.
Amen.
You're not refuting the one defence of consentual homosexual sex: it's hurting no one and giving pleasure to the participants, so let's let these guys have fun!
Because chasing fleeting pleasure should be the goal of life
@@HodgePodgeVids1 If you believe that you should just say so instead of implying other people believe that like a coward.
Slippery slope that’s your argument….
slippery slope is not a fallacy
@@ostalgie6502 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope He actually didn't even do that he was just like pedophiles...Anger is bad
@@ostalgie6502 except when it leads to a wrong answer
If people are born gay, explain the large number of bisexuals.
they’re born bisexual? lmfao it’s not that hard
Because they're born bisexuals actually the LGBTQ+ is'nt just the gays
2:56 like Richard Carrier
This trent guy what's the bet he has alot of repressed homosexual feelings 🤔
When did straight choose their straightness? And why would they choose to act on it?. You don't have to get married. Why would you? These guys are so ignorant and condescending
This kind of thinking is bigoted and reprehensible. It’s astounding that you can proudly and confidently talk in such ways.
I appreciate your tolerance of other viewpoints.:/
Can you elaborate on that? What kind of thinking in particular?
Proudly confidently expressing your own views is one thing but to proudly think that these views should be shoved down the throat of everyone is the problem.
@@halleylujah247 You can be LGBT and Christian
@@ddrse What does that mean? What does Christian mean to you? How do the ideals of LGBT coincide with the Bible?