Thank you so much Fr. Pine. As someone with same sex attraction I appreciate this message because it’s true. Sex exists for one purpose: procreation. St. Augustine helped me understand this. I was made for God not pleasure. If I was made for pleasure and happiness than I would not have been made to die. This is why I’m celibate because I exist for God alone. There aren’t many of us with same sex attraction in the church but I try very much to pray for the conversion of my brothers and sisters in the LGBTQ community.
St. Mary of Egypt prays for us indeed. If I could give you a hug, I would. And I know hugs aren't particularly politically correct in this age of 6' spacing, but that's another thing to consider. Please accept my prayer intentions on your behalf.
I think it's worth clarifying for other people browsing the comments that the Church recognizes sex as unitive AND procreative, with both parts inherently intertwined.
I'll be praying for you brother! But yes, it's good to clarify- it's not just for procreation. It's for the unification of the spouses too. The ecstasy you get is supposed immerse you in the joy of loving God and other people
I led this lifestyle for many, many years. Growing up in a very devout catholic household, I was an altar boy, lector, went to Mass faithfully, all of that. But I always knew that I was different. Then as I hit 21, I thought I needed to start living how I thought I should live: that is a gay lifestyle. It was a choice, yes, a choice, that I made, and I lived this way for 27 years. Having been in same-sex relationships, having gay friends, basically "being" gay all around. But, around 4 years ago, I had this very strong pull, as it were, to come back to the Church, but I resisted. I can't explain it, but that pull grew stronger and stronger which later I attribute this to the BVM and Divine Mercy. Eventually I realized that I needed to make amends with God and come back to Church. I went to confession and started going to Mass again. I started to pray just a little bit and as more time went by, I started to pray more and more. Today, prayer, going to Mass daily, and to Eucharistic Adoration are a huge part of my life. I have come to realize that I am not gay. I may be same-sex attracted, but the two are completely different things. As Fr. Schmitz said, one is an identity that you choose to be recognized by. I have come also to realize that it's not about me; it's about God. The more I read the writings of the greats like St. Teresa of Avila, St John of the Cross, St Catherine of Siena, Francisco de Osuna, Walter Hilton, Thomas a Kempis, the more, as I said, it's about God. God is the ultimate, the supreme. In today's day and age, it's all about me. This is the trick of the Accuser. God created me and I owe God everything. I owe God my worship and my adoration. I owe Him my life. There are certain priest, Fr. James Martin, SJ, and ministries like Fortunate Families and Dignity that put everything on the person. They teach false love, false compassion and false mercy. They teach a gospel of love and mercy and compassion but forget the other main point: repentance. Repentance is key first. You can't have love, mercy, and compassion without repentance of your sins, but you have to accept your sins, too. If you don't, then there is no mercy. It's about humility. You have to humbly approach God and with your whole heart, you have to acknowledge your sins regardless of what they are. This isn't part of any of Fr. Martin's or Fortunate Family's agendas. Hidden behind a very thin veneer, they want the Church to accept homosexuality as normal. In fact, FF goes as far as saying in their beliefs, that no amount of therapy or prayer can help. This tells you right there how wrong they are. They are saying that God cannot heal the wounds of this sin. That in itself is a sin. Prayer with faith can heal. It might not change the SSA, but it helps you overcome the desires, the concupiscence and gives you the strength. But, you have to put God first and recognize that He is above all and you owe Him everything. If you don't, regardless of what your sin is, you will continue in your sin. We are so overwhelmed today by individual rights, etc., that even if we were taught who God is and how much He loves us, we will tend to forget that and then become blinded by our own individual pride. We have to have the humility to go to God, who loves us more than anything we can ever imagine on in this earth in this life, who is there waiting for us to run to Him and ask for that forgiveness and mercy. We have to turn to Him and trust Him completely with humility. We have to give our day, our night, our lives to Him. God owes us absolutely nothing. It's us who owe Him everything. We want God, who never changes, always was, is, and will be the same, to bend to us and accept what we want namely the right to sin, and God can't and won't ever do that. Until we realize it's not about us, and it's about Him, we will be a slave to this sin or any sin.
Today is the anniversary of my older brother Stephen's death 18yrs ago, and have been thinking about him so strongly today, more than ever before. I pray for his soul daily. He was also in a gay relationship for 27yrs, and shortly before he died, he seemed to try to get back to his Catholic faith...yet, he struggled. Since he had died on May 1st, Mary's month, and around the 3o'clock hour, I pray God had mercy upon his dear soul. He was a good man, had a wonderful sense of humor, and we loved him no matter. So, Thanks Jim C, I really appreciate what you have written. God bless you!
I was already sure about the answer of Fr Pine to the question. But I wanted to hear him articulate the metaphysical truth of the nature of human sexuality. Fr Pine is one of the greatest and faithful Catholic intellectuals of our time. I hope he becomes a saint.
Fr. Mike Schmitz has said a lot of good stuff on this topic. One thing he talks about is that there’s a difference between relief (that can be momentarily experienced in sexual activity) and freedom, the power, through grace, to live chastely, whether as someone with SSA or anyone else; even married people have to take up their cross in living well-ordered and disciplined sexual lives.
Answer: Never. Brothers and sisters, pray for the Church and our Pope. May the Lord's will and teachings come forth through our Pope. God bless our church, our Pope and us all.
@@robertweidner2480 what matters, is what God has said, which is made very clear through His Divine Word in Sacred Scripture. This is the revealed truth of God. Truth, like God, is unchangeable. So in a way, you are right, it does not matter what a member of the clergy says, because God’s truth has already been revealed, and the truth is unchanging.
@@christopherhennigan9834 Obviously catholic priests dont care what the church teaches. The priesthood is a big fat gay bath house. Good luck with your religion.
In a word? Never. Catholic teaching has not, cannot, and will not change. HOWEVER, I see so many "Catholics" who simply ABANDON their brothers and sisters struggling with same-sex attraction. They are our brothers and sisters too, and they need us.
I spoke with a friend of mine who is straight but considers herself polyamorous. This means she has many romantic relationships - and in her mind that doesn't necessarily mean that they need to have sex. I gather that this is probably a common opinion among people who support the LGBT movement, that the distinction between friendship and romance is not sex. I have no idea what it would be then, but I think this is a defining point of difference between Catholics and LGBT Advocates that needs to be addressed.
Except when church teaching changed around usury, religious freedom, slavery, the death penalty, marriages outside the church, salvation outside the church, limbo…need I go on?
I've found that sexual sins are really simple to deal with: get humble, go to Confession, pray the Rosary and every other prayer you can find every day, pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy every day at 15:00, pray the Angelus at least once a day (I do it 3x), go to Mass every weekend and holy day of obligation, give up meat on Fridays, and go to Confession when (not if, when) you mess up. Do that for 7+ years, and you will shake the worst sexual sins, no matter how bad the addiction. I speak from personal experience.
This is the kind of intense denial of reality that has ultimately landed many Christians into therapy. You’re essentially saying a person can pray their “struggles” away if they do it enough and for long enough. But that is simply ignoring reality, pushing it down and away, and never confronting. This is unhealthy on every level. And to especially teach children this is why the suicide rate among LGBTQ people is so damn high. I’m currently doing everything I can to protect a family member from this kind of harm. They deserve a normal childhood. Not one plagued with constant repetitive prayer, ignoring their body and mental health. I pray other LGBTQ people have someone who will also walk with them and not force them to suppress their thoughts and emotions.
@@zenbum2654 No, it's not. It's actually quite easy to implement these prayers into your life. Our busy and materialistic culture makes it seem impossible.
ROMANS 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
There can be if we define it that way. The argument "God defines it a certain way" is self-defeating since ancient non-Christian cultures also define what marriage is, the word would then not come from God.
Yes there is. It's when you give marriage to 2 people of same sex, it's not rocket science. I suppose you don't approve it, but to say that it's nonexistent is just flat out lie.
Same-sex marriage is a very controversial and contentious issue. I'm quite impressed how Fr. Gregory Pine expressed opposition to it without expressing any hatred for those who support it. If everyone could approach controversial issues like this, we would have a much better world.
@@kelechukwuanozyk7605 catholics we are very soft and that lead to compromise truth. Imagine bishops pushing sex marriage? As if they didn't know God!!! So horrible.
Thank you so much for this, Father. So much wisdom condensed into just under 15 minutes. I think that many people believe the lie that the Catholic Church hates gay people, but really we believe that their acts are disordered, and we are called to love them. But the Church must speak plainly on this issue, as you did here. All we can do as Catholics is explain what the Church teaches in a calm, yet firm way, and what they do with that is ultimately up to them.
G-d or Paul? How do we know what is true except the holy spirit shows us? Peter said some things too but according to Paul they were not right so they 'argued'...how do we know what is true then?
@@Bah1357 It wasn't only Paul. Also on a purely personal testimony, when I had already become chaste to prioritise God and then first accepted that Christ was indeed God, I had an instantaneous healing of sinful sexual disorders by way of a clarifying light that simply made it obvious what God's design for me was and how it had been corrupted. I have so much love for people with these burdens and I pray that God will shine this same light of faith for them. Some sins are obvious by the direct harm they do but others are not so much and it only needs to be seen that, where we had never fallen, they would never have arisen. They are not of the narrow path. Even though many who are confused seek to become their truest and most loving selves by liberal exploration of all options, there is only one way that God designed as true and loving and only in God can they come to see this.
@@DarkAngel-cj6sx never said it wasn't. U do realize there are things Christ said and the apostles that contradict? Ex:Christ said not to call anyone father but then 1 Corinthians 4:15. Then in galatian 2:12-14 paul opposed peter. So what what if others did what peter taught by example? Hence my point. We need the Holy Spirit of God to recieve understanding
Check out Eden Invitation as well! It’s a great community of Catholics who experience same-sex attraction and gender discordance and still adhere to the Church’s teachings.
@@raffaelegibellini667 Pitiful reading comprehension, he never said he's advocating for the LGBT, he said he's teaching what the Church teaches despite having same-sex attractions. He never said he engages in sex with men, nor that he's transgender. Gender dysphoria is a real thing, no different than autism.
Fr. Gregory, Thank you for this truths filled talk. Our family thoroughly appreciate your invaluable talks. Please know we're having a Mass said for your incredible late Mom this morning. Please keep our family in your prayers. god bless you. Laureen
What a blessing is to have 1) The TRUTH 2) A Church that has guard it during 2000 years 3) Well prepared and highly intelligent priests that communicate it so well.
As a former addicted to S.S.A., healed through Grace, I am grateful to this young, brilliant preacher for his words of truth. Many youngsters today are led astray by depraved adults grooming them into sin. We need more Catholic preachers who are not afraid to speak the truth to these confused souls.
“The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.” Isaiah 40:8 ESV “and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?” Matthew 19:5 ESV “Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.” Romans 1:24-27 ESV “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV
This is the issue that led several of my friends out of Congregational churches. Something cannot be false yesterday and true today just because a vote was held.
What a beautiful and effortless sermon on such a controversial issue! God first, and everything else will follow in beauty, grace and order. Can’t bend God’s will to ours. It just won’t ever be done in a way that wouldn’t lead us to our own destruction, in this world and the next.
Hi fellow Catholics! I'm a Filipino, And I'm here just to ask for a simple petition, and that is if you can pray for our country the Philippines? Our Election day would be on May 9 and the election season have been messy, especially since the son of the former dictaror Ferdinand Marcos is running for presidancy; and on recent election surveys he is always getting the majority of the votes. A prayer would be indeed a great help for a country in fear of being stripped away of its democracy. Your prayer would be deeply appreciated!
I’m currently “discerning” the faith, I think that’s what it’s called. I’m interested in Catholicism because of Christ and his teaching. So many churches have fallen prey to becoming more “modern”. If the church says the same thing that secular society does, then what is the need for the church? I’m interested in Catholicism, I’m not interested in trying to change Catholicism for my own aims. As someone that grew up in Seattle and is living in Chicago, I can tell you it’s a major problem. Public school teachers are telling kids at a very young age that they can choose their own sexuality. So many young ones have been misled by this new secular religion, I see Catholicism and God as the bulwark against this.
This is so enlightening. God asks us to love Him first then each another. None of us can cross the line in the sand. We don’t not need to be hateful to individuals who choose same sex relationships. We should be praying for them to realize Gods will for them. We all have opinions and when others are different than us, most of us are not loving. It’s easier to judge others than to pray for them. We are mostly prideful people which is not a good road to choose. I think we need to work on our own hearts so others can see the difference in us. We Christians are falling very short of being good examples. We can’t see we are more like the Pharisees than we want to admit. I know of a young man and at the age of six, thought God hated him because he knew he was different as having gay thoughts and shut God out. He is in his 30’s and I’m still praying he lets God in his heart. 🙏🏽🕊🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🕊🕊🕊🕊
Oh Dude, Fr. Pine, I don't know if these comments ever get back to you but I do plan to buy your book and it's crazy how suited to me it sounds. I've recently resolved to attend more to the content put out by you and one other priest whose positive character traits I want to imitate, and I _direly_ struggle with the virtue of prudence. So a book called 'Prudence' written by you? Yes, you have yourself one pre-order right here.
I hope not. If it does, the there will be a split in the church. Most assume that the lgbt lifestyle is all about a monogomus couple, but that is the minority. Check out what Milo Younopolos and Becket Cook have to say about that lifestyle, there's a lot of trauma and pain behind those rainbow flags, and it isn't caused by traf Catholics.
Which is true - and the monogamous ones almost never "seek out" other gays. I've known "married" gays who go on gay cruises, camps etc just to "meet" other gays. Really defeats the purpose of marriage unless they do by their redefinition.
Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs is reflected in your concept quite beautifully. 👌 Also, what people don’t understand sometimes when asking “will the church allow same sex marriage” is that we follow Divine Law and Principles not created by men. It is not about the Pope or any human hand to change that.
Unfortunately the Church isn't unified in it's "pastoral care to address that great wound." I personally know of a single woman in our entire diocese going from parish to parish to start enCourage/courage, and at least half of the head pastors say they do not want to deal with that.
Father, if you’re looking for a video topic, may i suggest you do one on gluttony, it’s prevalence in today’s society, and how to overcome it. I think this may be very helpful to many- especially today
I really loved this explanation. Really gives a robust account of the human person as a whole, and explains it in such a logical and philosophical manner that made clear sense to me. Great video!
If the Church changed its stance on same sex marriage it would be like every other denomination, that's what separates Catholicism from the rest. Its core teachings remains the same and untouched.
Disorders don’t have “rights” and this should be clear. After Roe v Wade is overturned this summer, we should focus on overturning Obergfell next. We have to oppose the agenda to promote this disorder, especially from Disney.
Those who suffer temptations of this kind, even those who give in to them and act in a disordered fashion with God's gifts to them, have rights however. Just the same as everyone else. No special privaliges, except the nonsense the world hands them to appease their tragic cries for acceptance of the unacceptable: to hate and abuse through sin and call it the equal of love, of true family.
Positive vs Negative vision. Christianity has been on the negative vision side for a while. Perhaps now it's time for positive vision. Instead of focusing on the legality of homosexuality, cultivate a culture of true God-centered vision of sexuality. I know we have it in theory but we need to sell our ideas better.
@Saints and Scholars if God is better than the culture, then we should be able to define why our vision is better than the world's. The Mormons are pretty fucking good at doing it. It's a wretched scandal that Catholics can't sell their family values in a respectable way somehow.
If someone is looking for a LGBT+ friendly church, become an Episcopalian. I prefer the Roman Catholic Church and hope it stays with its original teachings. I love being Catholic because we’re following the true word of the Lord and not caving to modern ideology.
This is an important topic because it is an issue that affects white men and the West. It is not an issue in Africa. In Africa, some Catholics want the Church to allow polygamy. Polygamy and gay marriage are issues and hot bottom topics, which the Church has taken a firm stance based on the teachings of Jesus Christ
And white women too, many women here identify as bisexual, and many more are taking hormones in hopes of becoming male. I was watching an interview with Ugandan Baptist pastor Gabriel Babba, and he was saying the West is trying to import this nonsense to Africa, hopefully Africans will say no. It's caused quite a bit of damage here.
Thank you for your contribution, brother. You are quite correct when you say that the African counterpart to gay marriage is polygamy. For example, the Yul Edochie "second wife" story (irrelevant as it really is), has made me painfully aware that many Nigerian "Christians" think nothing is wrong with "marrying" more than one woman. Some even try to adduce scriptural texts to support it!
LOL @ "Hot bottom topics". You meant to say "hot button", as a "hot bottom" is a man who plays the role of the woman in homosexual intercourse. One of the most famous being Congressman Barney Frank (Democrat, of course) who advertised himself as a "hot bottom" in homosexual media and was exposed. Back when being a sodomite was something to be ashamed of.
Yr study and observation is exactly correct Thank you Rev. Fr. for explaining the Catholic view of marriage quoting from the writing of St. John Pau11l The Church has been always dead against it
Love Fr. Pine! Speaking the truth in love to the LGBTQ community has developed into one of my greatest personal struggles. I deeply desire the LGBTQ community to hear the "Love" of God come through me and the Church; unfortunately all it seems they hear is 'holy finger wagging'. As Fr. Pine noted in how we are 'silenced', and I would say vilified in our efforts. I try to relate a shared fallen human experience by acknowledging the plank in my eye as a precept to any dialog - unfortunately to no avail so far. Maybe my approach is unloving??
Hi Brian - if you'll let me speak into your good heart, I have some thoughts. I think sometimes good Catholics underestimate the pain and rejection we have felt, particularly in relation to God and the church. Now, I am trying to deepen a practice of prayer to ask for God's will to be done. I think Our Lady cares deeply too, and I commend people to her. It's not that your approach is unloving - it's not necessarily. But it might be that there is more for you to listen and understand before your words reflect all that you want them to.
I'm a protestant but I'm not going to lie, the life of a monk would really suit me if we had something similar. Spending my days in study, prayer and worship.
Amidst all of this talk of what constitutes marriage or a sexual relationship, I can't help but notice that both sides aren't bothering to define what a friendship is or what friendships can do or what makes a more intimate relationship distinct from a friendship. I think we all know the experiential personal component of a romance, but I can't help but feel like the LGBT community cannot intellectually address the distinction between a friendship and a sexual relationship. Perhaps Catholics can?
Please read the Old Testament book of First Samuel. Start at chapter 17 or so. The king, Saul, had a son, Jonathan, who was dear friends with David (who slew Goliath). If Hollywood told that story today, they would totally make it severely gay gay gay. But these were married men who were friends with a deep brotherly bond. Male friendship is defined in 1st Samuel, and the Globohomo cabal cannot stop themselves from perverting it.
Exactly, I believe our perception of friendship is so shallow that we mistake anything deeper for romance. We are so quick to sexualize all our relationships
Jonathan and David; Chesterton and Shaw; Tolkien and Lewis, Moses and Joshua; Jesus, Peter, James, and John. . . Men used to have good, close, intimate friends. The problem is that language has been hijacked in the last 145 years. Intimacy didn't mean always solely reference to conjugal activity. . .it meant closeness. Likewise, gay meant happy. Sure, some took things way too far. For instance, my friend Oscar Wilde. Yes, I call him a friend for he found the Truth and true friendship with Him in his last days. He clearly is an inspiration, and I pray he can be a patron Saint of us suffering, wrestling with the sins of the flesh, the debauchery we engage in.
@@ABB14-11 I think this is at least one side of the profound loneliness of American culture. Nobody feels like they can trust each other anymore. I understand the fear of being taken advantage of when you share even mild physical intimacy like a hug.
When the church decides to ignore the clear and consistent teaching of the Holy Bible. So hopefully never. I don't say that in a hateful manner, believe me. I struggle with sexual sin myself. But I love the word of God more.
Just read the epistles, neither murderers theives, rapist, nor homosexuals have any part in the Kingdom of Heaven. Preach confession, repentence, then Forgiveness by Christs Blood. To claim faith in Jesus and continue in a grievous sinnful manner is blasphemy of The Holy Spirit.
I identify as SSA. I also identify as a person of faith. (It may just be a mustard seed, but it’s there.) I’m trying to deepen it. Been attending my local state university Catholic center last couple of months. Grew up in Christian school. Considering converting to Catholicism. I have pause however when someone tells me I’m meant to be alone. That I have to give up any form of sexuality. Even what I do privately, in my home, on my own. I don’t think that’s healthy and would hope not God’s will either. If I must be celibate at some point, ok. But I’m still a sexual being and there are ways to take care of that without lusting or objectifying another. Aside from this, one thing that is challenging for me right now as a person of faith and who is SSA, is the debate on whether these attractions are a result of nature or nurture. Or both. People may say God didn’t make you this way. Ok, fine. But I imagine he allowed it. That noted, I imagine it serves a purpose and I don’t deem that to living a life alone. While other, straight, married, men can have all the sex and all the comforts of a relationship they want. I have two brothers. One’s little boy actually reminds me of how I was as a kid. He’s 4. Where I’m going with this is that people also claim that a seed of sin got in somehow when I was young. Y’all, this kid is only 4. If he’s like me I’m thinking it’s because he was meant to be. So, with that said. I’m thinking that’s a God created thing. If this is the case. Something came to mind last night while I was reflecting on it. God says in the Bible a few things. 1. It’s not good for man to be alone. 2. For I know the plans I have for you. Plans to prosper, not to harm. 3. Love covers over a multitude of sins. The Catechism says that gay men must be celibate. But Paul said this wasn’t a mandate. He also said better to marry than to burn with lust. (This goes back to my topic of sex. It’s not everything. But we are sexual beings). How you going to demand one group of people just turn that off like a light switch while you live happily ever after?? So. This all may sound progressive and such. I’m actually not trying to come across that way. These are thoughts of mine I’ve been wrestling with. I want to live authentically. (Think I’m meant to.) I also want to know and follow God. I’m not sure what both look like as I move forward in life. I’ve been married for 8 years. Our life together hasn’t produced bad fruit. I don’t deem him to be a manifestation of sin and more so a blessing. One I prayed for even. That said, I get the notion to leave and just become crazy dog dude. I will. I also am fortunate to be a graduate student at Baylor university. Attempting to acquire my MSW. Obviously, LGBT concerns and religiosity are a focus of mine. I recently did a community engagement project with an emphasis on reducing suicide and lgbt young people leaving their faith of origin due to religious identity conflict. I don’t have a resolution to offer just yet. Just that organizations need to be able to talk to young people without having them feel condemned or ashamed. That’s not going to be helpful. I always say that I grew up being told that being gay was something someone chose out of spite and sin. No one ever warned me that it was something one could naturally feel. This causes more confusion among young people who grow up in church. Whether you think it’s right or wrong. I will say that people are naturally gay. Some will realize they have these feelings. That they didn’t choose them or want them. How you respond to this as a parent or church leader is really going to impact their whole being and not just their sexuality. Ok. Stepping off the soap box.
@@mike-cc3dd Ya know what jackass. Actually, let’s play. People like you say don’t identify as my sexual interest. First of all. It’s not an interest. It’s my sexuality. So, you say I can’t identify as such. Do you not identify as a heterosexual? I’m also of native decent. You wouldn’t tell a particular person of various ethnicity to not identify as black, or as white, or as Chinese. You know how stupid your argument. “Don’t identify as your sexuality sounds?” Just stop it. And I can’t identify by various things that make me? Such as I like to skateboard. I’m a skateboarder. I like to write. I’m a writer. Or I’m an older brother. A son. A college student. Stupid, ignorant, unempathetic, troll.
...I am 58 years old. As I was growing up, sexuality was not "in the air" as it's now; it was not mentioned, not even taught in school, it was not a subject of conversation among friends, TV programming was not "lazed" with it nor were the movies. My friends and I were growing up with the "innocence" that, in my opinion, has been taken away from children in today's world. What I see now it's just the opposite; sex is everywhere, even to advertise deodorant they somehow have to introduce a sexual connotation...and, not only that, children are taught sexuality at such a young age! I was still playing with my dolls at age 12! Now, 12 year olds are sexually active, they "master" the use of condoms (or not!), some had gone already through all kind of experiences that have taken them to dark places, including addiction to pornography, the ultimate "objectification" of our beings (let's not forget that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit...). It seems to me that there are very powerful groups of "interest" out there, which have their own agendas, and which are continously hammering us with messages leading us to believe that what "defines" us is our sexuality. This concept goes up and against WHO we really ARE, this is, CHILDREN OF GOD and so, to remove us from God, the spirit of the world is luring us to "emphasise" ourselves. There cannot be "ME" and "GOD" at the same level; we have to "decrease" so that HE can "increase" in our lives... I want to share with you Bishop Barron's meditation on the Joyful's second mystery, the "Visitation": "Why does Mary go IN HASTE to visit Elizabeth? Because she has found her MISSION, her ROLE in the THEO-DRAMA. Today, we are dominated by the EGO-DRAMA and all its implications: I am writing my play, I am producing it, I am directing it and, above all, I am starring it. We see this everywhere in our culture; the FREEDOM OF CHOICE reigns supreme! I BECOME THE PERSON THAT I CHOOSE TO BE! But, the THEO-DRAMA is the great story told by GOD, the great play directed by GOD. What makes life worth living is TO DISCOVER our ROLE in GOD'S Theo-drama... and THAT is, precisely, what happened to MARY...She found her ROLE and wanted to commune with Elizabeth who found also her ROLE in that same drama..." I think this world has removed "meaning" from our lives and some of us are seeking God by striving to find out what our role is in His drama...I, myself, started to find it not that long ago...through lots of suffering and, one of the keys to find it is to DENY oneself FOR THE GOOD OF THE OTHER, which is what TRUE LOVE IS...not this meaningless "love is love" that the world is trying to push down our throats. Jesus said, “If any man would come after me, let him DENY HIMSELF, TAKE UP HIS CROSS and FOLLW ME” (Matt. 16:24). ...but, HOW can we TAKE UP our CROSS? By imitating Him, by liking whatever He likes, disliking whatever He dislikes. Taken up the Cross is not about "dwelling" in ourselves; it's just the opposite, it's about EMPTYING OURSELVES OUT.. We must remember that to pick up the crosses we humans carry, through no fault of our own, all throughout our lives, we must turn to God and away from the idea that following a temptation to sin will be easier. The cross is not incidental to our call to follow Christ, but rather an essential part of it. If we reject the cross we are NOT Jesus' disciples...We flourish when we look for the Will of God..(not our will) Your sister in Christ,
This was great! I love how you bring in Adam and Eve, and yeah - how are humans, animals to survive w/o love, relationship, and inter course between and man and a woman?
Wow - thank you So much here! Prickly issue asside, reframe to: How should the church treat sinners? Then the answer becomes obvious: with love and compassion. Individuals sin is for individual atonement, acceptance and transcendence. The church functions best as a background reminder to Christ - leaving the foreground atonement to the individual. Christ can only be in the hearts of individuals - this is not compatible with beurocratic group think judgment. This is precisely why God shotguns judgment for Himself alone - He does not want it poisoning His church
Exactly the same argument Fr. Pine uses here to oppose same-sex marriage could also be used to oppose the marriage of elderly (or otherwise infertile) heterosexual couples. But I'm pretty sure the Church doesn't take that position. Does this reveal a flaw in his argument? Or is the teaching of the Church inconsistent on this point?
@@filopon7116 Yes, God sometimes miraculously blesses infertile couples with children. So I suppose if a modern-day Abraham and Samuel were "open to life" they might have a child too, and therefore should be allowed to marry.
@@filopon7116 Obviously, Adam and Eve were heterosexual. Maybe Cain and Abel and Seth and their unnamed sisters were all heterosexual too. But in more recent times the "nature that God created" has included about 4% of the population being homosexual. Who are we to question the infinite wisdom of that choice? I don't expect the Catholic Magisterium to get over its homophobia any time soon. But at least they should try to come up with better arguments. It's especially ironic since a lot more than 4% of clergy are gay. Maybe even Fr. Gregory Pine.
It was intentional why this answer is long. It is for thought provocation, piercing of the mind and, in due time, the heart. The fact we complain this answer is unsatisfactory is only proof minds have been pierced in some way. It also shows how petty and soft we are, still absorbing the milk and not solid food. Haven't we gotten to the day where we can eat the steak and savor it? Let the words digest. You can read Chesterton, you should be able to reflect on Pine.
No. Never. But heretics, apostates, and defectors from Truth will try to advance it every turn. We must always reject them and remain faithful to the Gospel.
People in the church may teach separate beliefs than Jesus taught but that just becomes a different church cannot change would Jesus taught us you cannot change what God told us from the beginning you cannot change Christianity because that means the church that Christ found so no matter what some people in the church does God never changes
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Thank you so much Fr. Pine.
As someone with same sex attraction I appreciate this message because it’s true. Sex exists for one purpose: procreation. St. Augustine helped me understand this. I was made for God not pleasure. If I was made for pleasure and happiness than I would not have been made to die.
This is why I’m celibate because I exist for God alone.
There aren’t many of us with same sex attraction in the church but I try very much to pray for the conversion of my brothers and sisters in the LGBTQ community.
St. Mary of Egypt prays for us indeed. If I could give you a hug, I would.
And I know hugs aren't particularly politically correct in this age of 6' spacing, but that's another thing to consider.
Please accept my prayer intentions on your behalf.
I keep you in prayer. 🙏
I think it's worth clarifying for other people browsing the comments that the Church recognizes sex as unitive AND procreative, with both parts inherently intertwined.
I'll be praying for you brother! But yes, it's good to clarify- it's not just for procreation. It's for the unification of the spouses too. The ecstasy you get is supposed immerse you in the joy of loving God and other people
May God continue to bless you Charles in your journey back to God the Father.
I led this lifestyle for many, many years. Growing up in a very devout catholic household, I was an altar boy, lector, went to Mass faithfully, all of that. But I always knew that I was different. Then as I hit 21, I thought I needed to start living how I thought I should live: that is a gay lifestyle. It was a choice, yes, a choice, that I made, and I lived this way for 27 years. Having been in same-sex relationships, having gay friends, basically "being" gay all around. But, around 4 years ago, I had this very strong pull, as it were, to come back to the Church, but I resisted. I can't explain it, but that pull grew stronger and stronger which later I attribute this to the BVM and Divine Mercy. Eventually I realized that I needed to make amends with God and come back to Church. I went to confession and started going to Mass again. I started to pray just a little bit and as more time went by, I started to pray more and more. Today, prayer, going to Mass daily, and to Eucharistic Adoration are a huge part of my life. I have come to realize that I am not gay. I may be same-sex attracted, but the two are completely different things. As Fr. Schmitz said, one is an identity that you choose to be recognized by.
I have come also to realize that it's not about me; it's about God. The more I read the writings of the greats like St. Teresa of Avila, St John of the Cross, St Catherine of Siena, Francisco de Osuna, Walter Hilton, Thomas a Kempis, the more, as I said, it's about God. God is the ultimate, the supreme. In today's day and age, it's all about me. This is the trick of the Accuser. God created me and I owe God everything. I owe God my worship and my adoration. I owe Him my life. There are certain priest, Fr. James Martin, SJ, and ministries like Fortunate Families and Dignity that put everything on the person. They teach false love, false compassion and false mercy. They teach a gospel of love and mercy and compassion but forget the other main point: repentance. Repentance is key first. You can't have love, mercy, and compassion without repentance of your sins, but you have to accept your sins, too. If you don't, then there is no mercy. It's about humility. You have to humbly approach God and with your whole heart, you have to acknowledge your sins regardless of what they are. This isn't part of any of Fr. Martin's or Fortunate Family's agendas. Hidden behind a very thin veneer, they want the Church to accept homosexuality as normal. In fact, FF goes as far as saying in their beliefs, that no amount of therapy or prayer can help. This tells you right there how wrong they are. They are saying that God cannot heal the wounds of this sin. That in itself is a sin. Prayer with faith can heal. It might not change the SSA, but it helps you overcome the desires, the concupiscence and gives you the strength. But, you have to put God first and recognize that He is above all and you owe Him everything. If you don't, regardless of what your sin is, you will continue in your sin.
We are so overwhelmed today by individual rights, etc., that even if we were taught who God is and how much He loves us, we will tend to forget that and then become blinded by our own individual pride. We have to have the humility to go to God, who loves us more than anything we can ever imagine on in this earth in this life, who is there waiting for us to run to Him and ask for that forgiveness and mercy. We have to turn to Him and trust Him completely with humility. We have to give our day, our night, our lives to Him. God owes us absolutely nothing. It's us who owe Him everything. We want God, who never changes, always was, is, and will be the same, to bend to us and accept what we want namely the right to sin, and God can't and won't ever do that. Until we realize it's not about us, and it's about Him, we will be a slave to this sin or any sin.
Well said.
may God bless you and keep you Jim. Your testimony is beautiful.
Beautiful. God has really called you to Himself.
Today is the anniversary of my older brother Stephen's death 18yrs ago, and have been thinking about him so strongly today, more than ever before. I pray for his soul daily. He was also in a gay relationship for 27yrs, and shortly before he died, he seemed to try to get back to his Catholic faith...yet, he struggled.
Since he had died on May 1st, Mary's month, and around the 3o'clock hour, I pray God had mercy upon his dear soul. He was a good man, had a wonderful sense of humor, and we loved him no matter. So, Thanks Jim C, I really appreciate what you have written. God bless you!
@@marylockman7466 I’m so sorry for your loss. I will keep your brother in my prayers. God is beyond all time and His mercy just can’t be grasped.
I was already sure about the answer of Fr Pine to the question. But I wanted to hear him articulate the metaphysical truth of the nature of human sexuality. Fr Pine is one of the greatest and faithful Catholic intellectuals of our time. I hope he becomes a saint.
Perhaps the theological angle on Christ and the Church?
Fr. Pine is coming up, he hasn't gone far yet. Yes, he is a rising start among the league of Catholic intellectual
Fr. Mike Schmitz has said a lot of good stuff on this topic. One thing he talks about is that there’s a difference between relief (that can be momentarily experienced in sexual activity) and freedom, the power, through grace, to live chastely, whether as someone with SSA or anyone else; even married people have to take up their cross in living well-ordered and disciplined sexual lives.
Answer: Never. Brothers and sisters, pray for the Church and our Pope. May the Lord's will and teachings come forth through our Pope. God bless our church, our Pope and us all.
It doesn't matter what any layman, deacon, priest, bishop, cardinal or even pope says, believes or even does.
@@robertweidner2480 what matters, is what God has said, which is made very clear through His Divine Word in Sacred Scripture. This is the revealed truth of God. Truth, like God, is unchangeable. So in a way, you are right, it does not matter what a member of the clergy says, because God’s truth has already been revealed, and the truth is unchanging.
@@christopherhennigan9834 Obviously catholic priests dont care what the church teaches. The priesthood is a big fat gay bath house. Good luck with your religion.
@@robertweidner2480 Would you say it doesn't matter what the Apostles had to say?
In a word?
Never.
Catholic teaching has not, cannot, and will not change.
HOWEVER, I see so many "Catholics" who simply ABANDON their brothers and sisters struggling with same-sex attraction. They are our brothers and sisters too, and they need us.
I spoke with a friend of mine who is straight but considers herself polyamorous. This means she has many romantic relationships - and in her mind that doesn't necessarily mean that they need to have sex. I gather that this is probably a common opinion among people who support the LGBT movement, that the distinction between friendship and romance is not sex. I have no idea what it would be then, but I think this is a defining point of difference between Catholics and LGBT Advocates that needs to be addressed.
Polysmorus? sounds like nonsense.
Read session 11 of the Ecumenical Council of Florence and then read Vatican 2’s Lumen Gentium 15 & 16. Sure looks like a change in doctrine to me.
They need God first. No compromise here. Jesus said go sin no more.
They want the church to fall so no no
Except when church teaching changed around usury, religious freedom, slavery, the death penalty, marriages outside the church, salvation outside the church, limbo…need I go on?
Excellent explanation step by logical step as to why the Church won't condone gay "marriage." Thank you.
I've found that sexual sins are really simple to deal with: get humble, go to Confession, pray the Rosary and every other prayer you can find every day, pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy every day at 15:00, pray the Angelus at least once a day (I do it 3x), go to Mass every weekend and holy day of obligation, give up meat on Fridays, and go to Confession when (not if, when) you mess up. Do that for 7+ years, and you will shake the worst sexual sins, no matter how bad the addiction. I speak from personal experience.
To do every single thing you list would probably require living in a monastery.
This is the kind of intense denial of reality that has ultimately landed many Christians into therapy. You’re essentially saying a person can pray their “struggles” away if they do it enough and for long enough. But that is simply ignoring reality, pushing it down and away, and never confronting. This is unhealthy on every level. And to especially teach children this is why the suicide rate among LGBTQ people is so damn high. I’m currently doing everything I can to protect a family member from this kind of harm. They deserve a normal childhood. Not one plagued with constant repetitive prayer, ignoring their body and mental health. I pray other LGBTQ people have someone who will also walk with them and not force them to suppress their thoughts and emotions.
I agree with you. The more we (I) focus on God, the less we're consumed by our sins. I really needed to hear that, thanks!
@@zenbum2654 No, it's not. It's actually quite easy to implement these prayers into your life. Our busy and materialistic culture makes it seem impossible.
@@fooberdooge3103 💯
Always enjoy listening to Fr Pine and his very rational and well explained talks.
The church can’t change the truth it has always taught.
Newman has entered the chat
ROMANS 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
it has changed many times. Vat2 was a major change in your church.
Exactly. God has spoken, it is time for Christians to choose which road they want. Narrow or wide?
But they will say they changed it or worse, they will say truth was never such and distort reality. Aren't we already there?
Church has no authority to allow same sex marriage. First of all, there is no such a thing as same sex marriage.
There can be if we define it that way.
The argument "God defines it a certain way" is self-defeating since ancient non-Christian cultures also define what marriage is, the word would then not come from God.
Yes there is. It's when you give marriage to 2 people of same sex, it's not rocket science. I suppose you don't approve it, but to say that it's nonexistent is just flat out lie.
Same-sex marriage is a very controversial and contentious issue. I'm quite impressed how Fr. Gregory Pine expressed opposition to it without expressing any hatred for those who support it. If everyone could approach controversial issues like this, we would have a much better world.
Expressing God commands is not hatred. At some point Christians will have to be politically correct and follow God no matter what.
If you are soft like Pope Francis, gay people will push their agenda aggressively. Don't you know that?
@@kelechukwuanozyk7605 catholics we are very soft and that lead to compromise truth.
Imagine bishops pushing sex marriage?
As if they didn't know God!!! So horrible.
Thank you so much for this, Father. So much wisdom condensed into just under 15 minutes. I think that many people believe the lie that the Catholic Church hates gay people, but really we believe that their acts are disordered, and we are called to love them. But the Church must speak plainly on this issue, as you did here. All we can do as Catholics is explain what the Church teaches in a calm, yet firm way, and what they do with that is ultimately up to them.
There definitely is bigotry against gay people in or outside of the Church
Thank you for posting this! Very brave!!!
It shouldn't even be a question. God calls homosexuality an abomination so it ends here. Either we choose this world or God commands
G-d or Paul? How do we know what is true except the holy spirit shows us? Peter said some things too but according to Paul they were not right so they 'argued'...how do we know what is true then?
@@Bah1357 If you don't know what it is true keep searching. The Bible is Cristal clear. No negotiation
@@Bah1357 It wasn't only Paul. Also on a purely personal testimony, when I had already become chaste to prioritise God and then first accepted that Christ was indeed God, I had an instantaneous healing of sinful sexual disorders by way of a clarifying light that simply made it obvious what God's design for me was and how it had been corrupted. I have so much love for people with these burdens and I pray that God will shine this same light of faith for them. Some sins are obvious by the direct harm they do but others are not so much and it only needs to be seen that, where we had never fallen, they would never have arisen. They are not of the narrow path. Even though many who are confused seek to become their truest and most loving selves by liberal exploration of all options, there is only one way that God designed as true and loving and only in God can they come to see this.
@@DarkAngel-cj6sx never said it wasn't. U do realize there are things Christ said and the apostles that contradict? Ex:Christ said not to call anyone father but then 1 Corinthians 4:15. Then in galatian 2:12-14 paul opposed peter. So what what if others did what peter taught by example? Hence my point. We need the Holy Spirit of God to recieve understanding
@@Bah1357 the Church
Check out Eden Invitation as well! It’s a great community of Catholics who experience same-sex attraction and gender discordance and still adhere to the Church’s teachings.
Not God teaching read what Genesis 1/27
LOVE them. ❤️❤️
Thanks, I’ll look at them.
@@raffaelegibellini667 Pitiful reading comprehension, he never said he's advocating for the LGBT, he said he's teaching what the Church teaches despite having same-sex attractions.
He never said he engages in sex with men, nor that he's transgender.
Gender dysphoria is a real thing, no different than autism.
Fr. Gregory, Thank you for this truths filled talk. Our family thoroughly appreciate your invaluable talks. Please know we're having a Mass said for your incredible late Mom this morning. Please keep our family in your prayers. god bless you. Laureen
Very well done father. Clear, firm yet with lots of care and compassion
You have addressed this topic so well. Dominicans are the best!!! I also enjoy Godsplaining. Thank you.
Excellent!
Thank you for this thoughtful and thought provoking discussion.
I keep you in prayer Father.🙏
What a blessing is to have 1) The TRUTH 2) A Church that has guard it during 2000 years 3) Well prepared and highly intelligent priests that communicate it so well.
The answer Father gives makes perfect philosophical sense.
As a former addicted to S.S.A., healed through Grace, I am grateful to this young, brilliant preacher for his words of truth.
Many youngsters today are led astray by depraved adults grooming them into sin.
We need more Catholic preachers who are not afraid to speak the truth to these confused souls.
So owning and beating slaves is ok, but 2 guys kissing is an abomination?
That was never my experience as a gay person. I’m not “addicted to SSA” and no adult seduced me as a child or adolescent
“The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.”
Isaiah 40:8 ESV
“and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?”
Matthew 19:5 ESV
“Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.”
Romans 1:24-27 ESV
“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV
This is the issue that led several of my friends out of Congregational churches. Something cannot be false yesterday and true today just because a vote was held.
People can say whatever they want to suit their needs, but our God s word will never change🙏
Short answer: never
Long answer: never but longer
What a wonderful video! May God reward your charity for sharing such an excellent and thoughtful explanation with us, Fr Pine.
What a beautiful and effortless sermon on such a controversial issue! God first, and everything else will follow in beauty, grace and order. Can’t bend God’s will to ours. It just won’t ever be done in a way that wouldn’t lead us to our own destruction, in this world and the next.
Hi fellow Catholics! I'm a Filipino, And I'm here just to ask for a simple petition, and that is if you can pray for our country the Philippines? Our Election day would be on May 9 and the election season have been messy, especially since the son of the former dictaror Ferdinand Marcos is running for presidancy; and on recent election surveys he is always getting the majority of the votes. A prayer would be indeed a great help for a country in fear of being stripped away of its democracy. Your prayer would be deeply appreciated!
O Mary conceived without sin pray for us who have recourse to thee.
I’m currently “discerning” the faith, I think that’s what it’s called. I’m interested in Catholicism because of Christ and his teaching. So many churches have fallen prey to becoming more “modern”. If the church says the same thing that secular society does, then what is the need for the church? I’m interested in Catholicism, I’m not interested in trying to change Catholicism for my own aims. As someone that grew up in Seattle and is living in Chicago, I can tell you it’s a major problem. Public school teachers are telling kids at a very young age that they can choose their own sexuality. So many young ones have been misled by this new secular religion, I see Catholicism and God as the bulwark against this.
This is so enlightening. God asks us to love Him first then each another. None of us can cross the line in the sand. We don’t not need to be hateful to individuals who choose same sex relationships. We should be praying for them to realize Gods will for them. We all have opinions and when others are different than us, most of us are not loving. It’s easier to judge others than to pray for them. We are mostly prideful people which is not a good road to choose. I think we need to work on our own hearts so others can see the difference in us. We Christians are falling very short of being good examples. We can’t see we are more like the Pharisees than we want to admit.
I know of a young man and at the age of six, thought God hated him because he knew he was different as having gay thoughts and shut God out. He is in his 30’s and I’m still praying he lets God in his heart. 🙏🏽🕊🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🕊🕊🕊🕊
fr gregory pine is a theological genius
Oh Dude, Fr. Pine, I don't know if these comments ever get back to you but I do plan to buy your book and it's crazy how suited to me it sounds. I've recently resolved to attend more to the content put out by you and one other priest whose positive character traits I want to imitate, and I _direly_ struggle with the virtue of prudence. So a book called 'Prudence' written by you? Yes, you have yourself one pre-order right here.
Thank you Fr. Pine for easing my anxieties after hearing some in the Church promote confusing and conflicting ideas. God bless 🙏
This is VERY refreshing! Thank you, Fr. Pine!
I hope not. If it does, the there will be a split in the church. Most assume that the lgbt lifestyle is all about a monogomus couple, but that is the minority. Check out what Milo Younopolos and Becket Cook have to say about that lifestyle, there's a lot of trauma and pain behind those rainbow flags, and it isn't caused by traf Catholics.
Trauma and homosexuality/transgenderism/promiscuity go hand in hand.
Which is true - and the monogamous ones almost never "seek out" other gays. I've known "married" gays who go on gay cruises, camps etc just to "meet" other gays. Really defeats the purpose of marriage unless they do by their redefinition.
Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs is reflected in your concept quite beautifully. 👌
Also, what people don’t understand sometimes when asking “will the church allow same sex marriage” is that we follow Divine Law and Principles not created by men. It is not about the Pope or any human hand to change that.
Unfortunately the Church isn't unified in it's "pastoral care to address that great wound." I personally know of a single woman in our entire diocese going from parish to parish to start enCourage/courage, and at least half of the head pastors say they do not want to deal with that.
Father, if you’re looking for a video topic, may i suggest you do one on gluttony, it’s prevalence in today’s society, and how to overcome it. I think this may be very helpful to many- especially today
Thank you for this
Thank you for this educational video, Fr Pine, and thank you for hosting such content, Mr Fradd.
I really loved this explanation. Really gives a robust account of the human person as a whole, and explains it in such a logical and philosophical manner that made clear sense to me. Great video!
Love you Father Gregory
If the Church changed its stance on same sex marriage it would be like every other denomination, that's what separates Catholicism from the rest. Its core teachings remains the same and untouched.
Disorders don’t have “rights” and this should be clear. After Roe v Wade is overturned this summer, we should focus on overturning Obergfell next. We have to oppose the agenda to promote this disorder, especially from Disney.
Those who suffer temptations of this kind, even those who give in to them and act in a disordered fashion with God's gifts to them, have rights however.
Just the same as everyone else. No special privaliges, except the nonsense the world hands them to appease their tragic cries for acceptance of the unacceptable: to hate and abuse through sin and call it the equal of love, of true family.
Positive vs Negative vision. Christianity has been on the negative vision side for a while. Perhaps now it's time for positive vision. Instead of focusing on the legality of homosexuality, cultivate a culture of true God-centered vision of sexuality. I know we have it in theory but we need to sell our ideas better.
What is this Obergfell ruling of which you speak, Moses King?
@@GrislyAtoms12 the same sex marriage ruling back in 2015?
@Saints and Scholars if God is better than the culture, then we should be able to define why our vision is better than the world's.
The Mormons are pretty fucking good at doing it. It's a wretched scandal that Catholics can't sell their family values in a respectable way somehow.
Marriage by defnition is the union of a man and a woman for the procreation of children.
Marvelous! That was a beautiful talk. I learned a lot.
I’ll pray the Holy Spirit someday gives us a pope like you.
Brilliant. Thanks for building this from the ground up.
If someone is looking for a LGBT+ friendly church, become an Episcopalian. I prefer the Roman Catholic Church and hope it stays with its original teachings. I love being Catholic because we’re following the true word of the Lord and not caving to modern ideology.
No. The Catholic Church isn't some heretical Protestant denomination.
This is an important topic because it is an issue that affects white men and the West. It is not an issue in Africa. In Africa, some Catholics want the Church to allow polygamy. Polygamy and gay marriage are issues and hot bottom topics, which the Church has taken a firm stance based on the teachings of Jesus Christ
And white women too, many women here identify as bisexual, and many more are taking hormones in hopes of becoming male. I was watching an interview with Ugandan Baptist pastor Gabriel Babba, and he was saying the West is trying to import this nonsense to Africa, hopefully Africans will say no. It's caused quite a bit of damage here.
Interesting. Thanks for your reflections on Africa.
Thank you for your contribution, brother. You are quite correct when you say that the African counterpart to gay marriage is polygamy. For example, the Yul Edochie "second wife" story (irrelevant as it really is), has made me painfully aware that many Nigerian "Christians" think nothing is wrong with "marrying" more than one woman. Some even try to adduce scriptural texts to support it!
LOL @ "Hot bottom topics". You meant to say "hot button", as a "hot bottom" is a man who plays the role of the woman in homosexual intercourse. One of the most famous being Congressman Barney Frank (Democrat, of course) who advertised himself as a "hot bottom" in homosexual media and was exposed. Back when being a sodomite was something to be ashamed of.
Well, Africa is Huge!
I don't know where you live but where I live Catholics don't have issue
The Catholic Church will not change
Because God cannot change
Yr study and observation is exactly correct Thank you Rev. Fr. for explaining the Catholic view of marriage quoting from the writing of St. John Pau11l The Church has been always dead against it
Love Fr. Pine! Speaking the truth in love to the LGBTQ community has developed into one of my greatest personal struggles. I deeply desire the LGBTQ community to hear the "Love" of God come through me and the Church; unfortunately all it seems they hear is 'holy finger wagging'. As Fr. Pine noted in how we are 'silenced', and I would say vilified in our efforts. I try to relate a shared fallen human experience by acknowledging the plank in my eye as a precept to any dialog - unfortunately to no avail so far. Maybe my approach is unloving??
Hi Brian - if you'll let me speak into your good heart, I have some thoughts. I think sometimes good Catholics underestimate the pain and rejection we have felt, particularly in relation to God and the church. Now, I am trying to deepen a practice of prayer to ask for God's will to be done. I think Our Lady cares deeply too, and I commend people to her. It's not that your approach is unloving - it's not necessarily. But it might be that there is more for you to listen and understand before your words reflect all that you want them to.
Well said Fr.
Not the true church; God's law does not and will not change.
The church does not have the authority to accept that which is sin.
I'm a protestant but I'm not going to lie, the life of a monk would really suit me if we had something similar. Spending my days in study, prayer and worship.
Amidst all of this talk of what constitutes marriage or a sexual relationship, I can't help but notice that both sides aren't bothering to define what a friendship is or what friendships can do or what makes a more intimate relationship distinct from a friendship.
I think we all know the experiential personal component of a romance, but I can't help but feel like the LGBT community cannot intellectually address the distinction between a friendship and a sexual relationship. Perhaps Catholics can?
Please read the Old Testament book of First Samuel. Start at chapter 17 or so. The king, Saul, had a son, Jonathan, who was dear friends with David (who slew Goliath). If Hollywood told that story today, they would totally make it severely gay gay gay. But these were married men who were friends with a deep brotherly bond.
Male friendship is defined in 1st Samuel, and the Globohomo cabal cannot stop themselves from perverting it.
Exactly, I believe our perception of friendship is so shallow that we mistake anything deeper for romance. We are so quick to sexualize all our relationships
Jonathan and David; Chesterton and Shaw; Tolkien and Lewis, Moses and Joshua; Jesus, Peter, James, and John. . .
Men used to have good, close, intimate friends.
The problem is that language has been hijacked in the last 145 years. Intimacy didn't mean always solely reference to conjugal activity. . .it meant closeness.
Likewise, gay meant happy.
Sure, some took things way too far. For instance, my friend Oscar Wilde. Yes, I call him a friend for he found the Truth and true friendship with Him in his last days.
He clearly is an inspiration, and I pray he can be a patron Saint of us suffering, wrestling with the sins of the flesh, the debauchery we engage in.
@@ABB14-11 I think this is at least one side of the profound loneliness of American culture. Nobody feels like they can trust each other anymore. I understand the fear of being taken advantage of when you share even mild physical intimacy like a hug.
@@AJKPenguin pretty good insight.
When the church decides to ignore the clear and consistent teaching of the Holy Bible. So hopefully never. I don't say that in a hateful manner, believe me. I struggle with sexual sin myself. But I love the word of God more.
That's like asking when will atheism change its stance on the belief in God.
I hope you’re right, Padre
Awesome explanation and discourse on this topic. May God bless you.
Hi Father Pine. Could you make a video about St Thomas Aquinas’ view on the best of all possible worlds? Thanks for all the great content.
Just read the epistles, neither murderers theives, rapist, nor homosexuals have any part in the Kingdom of Heaven. Preach confession, repentence, then Forgiveness by Christs Blood. To claim faith in Jesus and continue in a grievous sinnful manner is blasphemy of The Holy Spirit.
Never, God willing...
2 Timothy 3:12 tells us; "And all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." There are many other verses like this.
Love is Love is Love. 👬👫
Never. The Church doesn't have the power to approve of things that God has already condemned.
When will it change its teaching? Never. But we should always act with charity
i pray for cardinals and bishops who embrace his sin
I identify as SSA. I also identify as a person of faith. (It may just be a mustard seed, but it’s there.) I’m trying to deepen it. Been attending my local state university Catholic center last couple of months. Grew up in Christian school. Considering converting to Catholicism. I have pause however when someone tells me I’m meant to be alone. That I have to give up any form of sexuality. Even what I do privately, in my home, on my own. I don’t think that’s healthy and would hope not God’s will either. If I must be celibate at some point, ok. But I’m still a sexual being and there are ways to take care of that without lusting or objectifying another.
Aside from this, one thing that is challenging for me right now as a person of faith and who is SSA, is the debate on whether these attractions are a result of nature or nurture. Or both. People may say God didn’t make you this way. Ok, fine. But I imagine he allowed it. That noted, I imagine it serves a purpose and I don’t deem that to living a life alone. While other, straight, married, men can have all the sex and all the comforts of a relationship they want.
I have two brothers. One’s little boy actually reminds me of how I was as a kid. He’s 4. Where I’m going with this is that people also claim that a seed of sin got in somehow when I was young. Y’all, this kid is only 4. If he’s like me I’m thinking it’s because he was meant to be.
So, with that said. I’m thinking that’s a God created thing. If this is the case. Something came to mind last night while I was reflecting on it. God says in the Bible a few things. 1. It’s not good for man to be alone. 2. For I know the plans I have for you. Plans to prosper, not to harm. 3. Love covers over a multitude of sins.
The Catechism says that gay men must be celibate. But Paul said this wasn’t a mandate. He also said better to marry than to burn with lust. (This goes back to my topic of sex. It’s not everything. But we are sexual beings).
How you going to demand one group of people just turn that off like a light switch while you live happily ever after??
So. This all may sound progressive and such. I’m actually not trying to come across that way. These are thoughts of mine I’ve been wrestling with.
I want to live authentically. (Think I’m meant to.) I also want to know and follow God. I’m not sure what both look like as I move forward in life. I’ve been married for 8 years. Our life together hasn’t produced bad fruit. I don’t deem him to be a manifestation of sin and more so a blessing. One I prayed for even. That said, I get the notion to leave and just become crazy dog dude. I will.
I also am fortunate to be a graduate student at Baylor university. Attempting to acquire my MSW. Obviously, LGBT concerns and religiosity are a focus of mine. I recently did a community engagement project with an emphasis on reducing suicide and lgbt young people leaving their faith of origin due to religious identity conflict.
I don’t have a resolution to offer just yet. Just that organizations need to be able to talk to young people without having them feel condemned or ashamed. That’s not going to be helpful.
I always say that I grew up being told that being gay was something someone chose out of spite and sin. No one ever warned me that it was something one could naturally feel. This causes more confusion among young people who grow up in church. Whether you think it’s right or wrong. I will say that people are naturally gay. Some will realize they have these feelings. That they didn’t choose them or want them. How you respond to this as a parent or church leader is really going to impact their whole being and not just their sexuality.
Ok. Stepping off the soap box.
@@mike-cc3dd Yea, did ya even read it? Due to your lack of empathy, $100 bucks says ya didn’t. Thanks for playing.
@@mike-cc3dd Ya know what jackass. Actually, let’s play. People like you say don’t identify as my sexual interest.
First of all. It’s not an interest. It’s my sexuality.
So, you say I can’t identify as such. Do you not identify as a heterosexual? I’m also of native decent. You wouldn’t tell a particular person of various ethnicity to not identify as black, or as white, or as Chinese. You know how stupid your argument. “Don’t identify as your sexuality sounds?” Just stop it.
And I can’t identify by various things that make me? Such as I like to skateboard. I’m a skateboarder. I like to write. I’m a writer. Or I’m an older brother. A son. A college student.
Stupid, ignorant, unempathetic, troll.
...I am 58 years old.
As I was growing up, sexuality was not "in the air" as it's now; it was not mentioned, not even taught in school, it was not a subject of conversation among friends, TV programming was not "lazed" with it nor were the movies. My friends and I were growing up with the "innocence" that, in my opinion, has been taken away from children in today's world. What I see now it's just the opposite; sex is everywhere, even to advertise deodorant they somehow have to introduce a sexual connotation...and, not only that, children are taught sexuality at such a young age! I was still playing with my dolls at age 12! Now, 12 year olds are sexually active, they "master" the use of condoms (or not!), some had gone already through all kind of experiences that have taken them to dark places, including addiction to pornography, the ultimate "objectification" of our beings (let's not forget that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit...).
It seems to me that there are very powerful groups of "interest" out there, which have their own agendas, and which are continously hammering us with messages leading us to believe that what "defines" us is our sexuality.
This concept goes up and against WHO we really ARE, this is, CHILDREN OF GOD and so, to remove us from God, the spirit of the world is luring us to "emphasise" ourselves.
There cannot be "ME" and "GOD" at the same level; we have to "decrease" so that HE can "increase" in our lives...
I want to share with you Bishop Barron's meditation on the Joyful's second mystery, the "Visitation":
"Why does Mary go IN HASTE to visit Elizabeth? Because she has found her MISSION, her ROLE in the THEO-DRAMA. Today, we are dominated by the EGO-DRAMA and all its implications: I am writing my play, I am producing it, I am directing it and, above all, I am starring it. We see this everywhere in our culture; the FREEDOM OF CHOICE reigns supreme! I BECOME THE PERSON THAT I CHOOSE TO BE! But, the THEO-DRAMA is the great story told by GOD, the great play directed by GOD. What makes life worth living is TO DISCOVER our ROLE in GOD'S Theo-drama... and THAT is, precisely, what happened to MARY...She found her ROLE and wanted to commune with Elizabeth who found also her ROLE in that same drama..."
I think this world has removed "meaning" from our lives and some of us are seeking God by striving to find out what our role is in His drama...I, myself, started to find it not that long ago...through lots of suffering and, one of the keys to find it is to DENY oneself FOR THE GOOD OF THE OTHER, which is what TRUE LOVE IS...not this meaningless "love is love" that the world is trying to push down our throats.
Jesus said, “If any man would come after me, let him DENY HIMSELF, TAKE UP HIS CROSS and FOLLW ME” (Matt. 16:24).
...but, HOW can we TAKE UP our CROSS?
By imitating Him, by liking whatever He likes, disliking whatever He dislikes. Taken up the Cross is not about "dwelling" in ourselves; it's just the opposite, it's about EMPTYING OURSELVES OUT..
We must remember that to pick up the crosses we humans carry, through no fault of our own, all throughout our lives, we must turn to God and away from the idea that following a temptation to sin will be easier.
The cross is not incidental to our call to follow Christ, but rather an essential part of it. If we reject the cross we are NOT Jesus' disciples...We flourish when we look for the Will of God..(not our will)
Your sister in Christ,
Thank you for your beautiful honesty here. I would love to share my story. I hope we can dialogue offline in some way.
@@joepugh678 Sure, I’d love to hear it. Thank you.
Soooo smart this fella.
It will not, ever, as that'd be a tremendous betrayal of those tempted like that who deal with that cross.
This was great! I love how you bring in Adam and Eve, and yeah - how are humans, animals to survive w/o love, relationship, and inter course between and man and a woman?
Wow - thank you
So much here!
Prickly issue asside, reframe to: How should the church treat sinners?
Then the answer becomes obvious: with love and compassion. Individuals sin is for individual atonement, acceptance and transcendence. The church functions best as a background reminder to Christ - leaving the foreground atonement to the individual.
Christ can only be in the hearts of individuals - this is not compatible with beurocratic group think judgment. This is precisely why God shotguns judgment for Himself alone - He does not want it poisoning His church
I’d be interested in seeing a video like this one contraceptives
Exactly the same argument Fr. Pine uses here to oppose same-sex marriage could also be used to oppose the marriage of elderly (or otherwise infertile) heterosexual couples. But I'm pretty sure the Church doesn't take that position. Does this reveal a flaw in his argument? Or is the teaching of the Church inconsistent on this point?
But these are still open to life, God gave a son to Abraham and Sarah
@@filopon7116 Yes, God sometimes miraculously blesses infertile couples with children. So I suppose if a modern-day Abraham and Samuel were "open to life" they might have a child too, and therefore should be allowed to marry.
@@zenbum2654 No, because it's against the nature that he created
@@filopon7116 Obviously, Adam and Eve were heterosexual. Maybe Cain and Abel and Seth and their unnamed sisters were all heterosexual too. But in more recent times the "nature that God created" has included about 4% of the population being homosexual. Who are we to question the infinite wisdom of that choice?
I don't expect the Catholic Magisterium to get over its homophobia any time soon. But at least they should try to come up with better arguments. It's especially ironic since a lot more than 4% of clergy are gay. Maybe even Fr. Gregory Pine.
@@zenbum2654
Romans 1, 26-27
Pray for us Holy mother of God!
*Jesus is God and he NEVER CHANGES!*
Not now but in the future for sure. We won’t be around to object.
When the Bible stops saying what it says - that’s when.
The novus ordo V2 protestant church likely will cave in on this issue soon. But the true Catholic Church never will.
No. That’s unchangeable. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Excellent.
It was intentional why this answer is long. It is for thought provocation, piercing of the mind and, in due time, the heart.
The fact we complain this answer is unsatisfactory is only proof minds have been pierced in some way.
It also shows how petty and soft we are, still absorbing the milk and not solid food. Haven't we gotten to the day where we can eat the steak and savor it?
Let the words digest. You can read Chesterton, you should be able to reflect on Pine.
@Cero
Must be Stanley Cup season. ; )
Thank you for your encouragement. I can only point to our God's Third Person, the Holy Ghost.
Never ever because the Lord Christ is the only way to get to Heaven 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
When Jesus comes back and says he changed his mind.
It's not a marriage. We need to stop calling it that because it perverts the meaning of the word.
Its a civil Union where two people become one. Marriage. Not hard to understand
No. Never. But heretics, apostates, and defectors from Truth will try to advance it every turn. We must always reject them and remain faithful to the Gospel.
I'm not Jewish(as far as I know). And I'm not a teenage boy. I don't get to have a bahmitzva. Even if I really, really want one.
Hail Mary Most Pure Conceived Without Sin
Let's hope NEVER. Otherwise we are going against Gods law
The fact is not that someone is homosexual, that isn't their identity. They are people who suffer from temptations of same sex attraction.
Yes, it takes a man and women to make a marriage. Gods way is the best way and the only way . We all need to yield to the LORD TO LIVE HIS WAY.
Missed opportunity to make a comically short video! Title: When will thing happen? Video, 3 seconds long: "Never."
Anglican church passed it soon pope francis will bless it !! 🏳🌈🏳🌈🏳🌈
People in the church may teach separate beliefs than Jesus taught but that just becomes a different church cannot change would Jesus taught us you cannot change what God told us from the beginning you cannot change Christianity because that means the church that Christ found so no matter what some people in the church does God never changes