I'm a new soundboard tech at my church and was taught this wrong. My church uses gain as a last resort and the sound barely has any green and definatelly no yellow and red. Tomorrow at church I want to try it your way! ;)
I just got a little mixer and encountered a little distortion on a recording earlier today. I looked up videos on RUclips about the proper way to set Gain and Levels. Thank goodness I watched yours first. I watched about 6 others after and 4 of them were recommending absolute garbage. You really outline the terminology and principles so well. Thank you. I'm getting perfect pristine sound now.
Wow ! BRUNO IS STILL THE BEST. He never ceases to amaze me with his very well spoken and easy to understand way of explaining things. Thank you Bruno! Keep rockin' steady my brother.
I've said it before, and I'm saying it again. Someone who is so good and clear I have so far never found, completely world class. All electronics manufacturers should bombard you with offers. Many thanks, a pure joy to watch listen and learn from you.
Am a novice when it comes to properly setting up equipment. Out of all the many videos on the web addressing gain, your video leads the pack with your straightforward instructions and explanations. Well done. Two thumbs up.
- Thanks for the question, this is an interesting issue! I would begin by turning your amps down by 6dB - if your amp level controls are not marked in dB, turn them down to the 12 o'clock mark, and adjust from there. The chances of feedback will not increase as long as you do not increase your channel gain more than the amount by which you have turned down your power amps.
I get my ideas here and it is very handy for a starter like myself, understanding the basics and applying them is fun, but thank you GLB and Bruno for putting this together no BS just straight up sharing of each important piece about sound management, God bless and more power Sir!
Anyone who is serious about wishing to learn the correct methodology of mixing desk and sound configurations should definitely subscribe to this most excellent channel!
This is a VERY good explanation! The best I've found so far. My Soundcraft Notepad 124 requires me to have the gain set to FULL up to get any level from a dynamic, low-impedance mic. I can't even get to 0db, much less into the yellow.
Thank You, Very, Very Much!! I've been hampered by improper gain structure for years. I've watched several long videos on this topic that leave me feeling that I've missed something. Your demonstration was short, clear and insightful. We have an event coming up next week and I'm planning on implementing your lesson then. Thanks again!!
That's great news Chuck, thanks for getting in touch! Gain structure is both very simple and very complex at the same time but end users can get 80% of the way there just by setting that knob at the top of the channel strip correctly! How did your event go?
Bruno, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We produce the Worthy Music Ministries' Family Stage at the Orting Pumpkin Festival. The event is run by the Tacoma Events Commission www.tacomaevents.com/pumpkin-festival.html . This year the sound was better than ever and that was Greatly due to your very helpful presentations!! Thanks again from myself and the Tacoma Events Commission. Now I'm looking forward to rather then dreading next years Freedom Fair 4th of July event www.freedomfair.com/. Thanks again Bruno!!
You know your stuff man. I do more studio stuff (mixing, tracking, etc...) and I can absolutely reaffirm your statement that proper gain staging is probably THE MOST important aspect of audio. It drives me INSANE sometimes when I get raw tracks to mix that have the levels completely jacked up. Gain staging cannot be stressed enough. Well done.
I have now watched several of your tutorials, they are best out there, bought a mixer couple of months ago and with your videos learned to use it correctly, thanks
- You're most welcome. If that is the case I would turn down your power amps - if they are set to maximum try turning them to 50% and then raising the gain on your mixer. The idea is to set gain on the mixer correctly and then use the power amps to determine the final volume of the PA system.
- Thanks for the question. In general, it is best to keep the channel fader all the way down when setting gain, mainly as a safety precaution against unexpectedly high levels. Console master faders should be at unity, power amp levels should be at whatever you have determined works best with your system. Once gain is set, then bring up the channel fader to hear the source through the PA.
- Yes, main faders are set to zero (unity gain) although this does not actually affect the gain setting procedure using the PFL button - you can still use this procedure with the main faders all the way down, monitoring the output of the mixer on headphones. Thanks also for the good point about gain for sung vs spoken vocals.
this is really very helpful. it's like going to an actual seminar. atleast with your videos i don't have to to go actual seminars and pay. all i need to do is watch your videos and try to apply them. thanks so much. all this time i thought that its only limited to setting your gain input to 12 o clock..
Glad to hear that! Yes gain is designed to be continuously variable just like the gas pedal on your car - more gain for lower level signals, less gain for higher level signals.
thanks so much again sir. now atleast i know. i couldn't set my gain to more than 12 o clock cause i thought it would destroy my speakers...hahahaha...wow..thanks so much again. i've been watching your different videos. really helpful
I bought my soundcraft from my job in downtown Orlando. It is a piece of history! Kid Rock, Supervillains, Backstreet Boys any one who ever played the Social. I need to learn this Board and I appreciate your video ! Thanks and God Bless you !!
Definitely can hear the noise floor slowly disappear when you reach unity gain. Great tutorial. Live audio isn't as forgiving as the noise floor in a digital virtual mixer. But too low a signal level causes many big problems in the digital world also. Thanks for the refreshment of this very important procedure in setting up the input gain sensitivity!
You're most welcome Myra. Too much gain is definitely a recipe for feedback! Glad your problem is solved, and feel free to contact me any time you have more questions.
- You're welcome, glad they've been helpful. Yes it's fine to use both sets of outputs at the main time - in fact it is ok to use *all* of the outputs of a mixer at any time :)
- Yes. However, *maximum* system gain can only be achieved with correct gain structure throughout the *entire* PA system, in other words all gain stages are set to clip at the same time. In other words, begin with correct channel gain, then set the power amps to clip when the mixer clips. And then make sure you have limiters throughout the system to ensure that you don't ever clip the input to your power amps. Does that make sense?
- You're most welcome, glad it was helpful. The volume knob on the back of the receiver is normally set to 100%, i.e. fully clockwise. This should yield a gain setting on your console of somewhere between 10 and 2 o'clock if you are running into a microphone input. The reason for this is mainly consistency between channels, and to achieve the best signal to noise ratio.
Have you had the chance to play around with the gm10XU? I recently considered going analogue and I decided on the Yamaha mg10XU. I am used to digital than analogue so to say for example, when it comes to compressor, I just punch numbers on ratio, threshold ect.. of course assigning the right value depending on what needs to be achieved. When it comes to analogue gears, how far should I dial on the compressor during live vocal recording? Should I even bother much with the compressor during live vocal take or should I take care of everything in the DAW that I am using to record in combination with the Yamaha? If you have any notion and that you don’t care sharing, I would appreciate it in advance. Thank you again for your tutorial Video on proper use of “Gain”
***** I haven't used the XU versions of the MG mixers but I'm familiar with their 'one knob' compressors and I find they don't offer much control. If working with them live I tend to set them to 12 o'clock on vocal channels and just leave them there - this theoretically gives a compression ratio of 2:1 at a threshold of +7dBu so is useful for housekeeping but not much else. I suggest you use your ears and see what sounds best. When recording I generally do not use a mixer so will do all of my processing within my DAW.
Thank you for suggestions and feedback. I kept my settings at 12 o clock on the eq. i first played around with the com knob and I realized that it didn't really affect the vocalist much. I was testing it then, I didn't really see the use on that application. I can however, see it being useful with a live band on Drums.
GLB Productions Bruno- thanks so much! I have one question. When setting gain for my line level keyboard what is the correct balance between gain and volume on the keyboard volume slider (which doesn't display dB levels). Should the slider on the keyboard be higher and the gain lower or vice versa with the slider lower and gain higher?? Thanks so much in advance. Appreciate your clear videos!
When setting gain structure, the fader on which you are setting the gain should be a unity, ( an important part of the equation) and the master output (during the mix or performance should be set to unity gain or just under. Very good video!
+mozart dedeaux Not necessarily - when the PFL button is depressed, it simulates this arrangement of faders. I feel it is important to set gain with the fader all the way down to begin with, as it prevents nasty surprises from unexpectedly hot input levels. Once you have verified correct input levels, then you can raise the fader. Of course, if you mixer is not equipped with PFL buttons, the above is the only way to ensure that you are setting gain structure correctly :)
+mozart dedeaux PFL = Pre Fade Listen (also called Solo) which negates the use of the fader for gain setting in this example.It directs the channel output straight to the main output LEDs and sometimes to the phones channel. Does not utilise channel fader or main buss fader when depressed.
Learned to mix on an X32 console, each channel strip has it's on input meter, so no PFL is required. But it's cool to learn that in case I ever have to mix on an analog board at some point. We do have a couple in use for karaoke at our venue, but I haven't spent much time to fully learn them, as that's not my primary job. I'm the event engineer for the venue room mixing bands, so I spend most of my time learning more about the Behringer X32. This video covers gain very well so that even a novice could understand and implement that. Gain structure is the very foundation, and as you said, the most important knob on your mixer!
Some bookmarks for me: Most mixers operate at line level 1:19 Setting preamp gain (Loudest sections to be in the yellow) 4:11 Now - with audio taken from mixer main output (loudest sections in the yellow) 4:48
Thanks, that was very helpful. Esp. the background information why you actually do what and how it is supposed to work was very helpful for understanding the concept. This should be a 1o1 for everyone diving into sound works of any kind (podcasts, music recording, music production whatever)
Gain is the amount by which the signal needs to be increased in order for the mixer to be able to process it. Fader is the amount by which the signal is trimmed in order to balance it against the other signals in the mix. So gain brings all signals to line level (around 1 volt) and the faders are used to balance them against one another.
- In general, console master volume should be set at unity gain to begin with, ie 0dB. Amplifier volume controls should be set at maximum, or lower if necessary to balance different sections of the PA system. Channel fader should be set to obtain sufficient volume levels in the PA system.
- Typically companies will run the amps wide open because it's a setting that's easy to get consistent, and it will also give you the maximum possible level out of your system for a given channel gain. So it's not a bad way to do things. Sonically, some mixers sound different when driven hard, especially the analogue boards, so there can be a difference in the way things sound.
Hmm true, you have a point. So with this, is it safe to say that maximum system volume is not dependent on whether or not the amps are cranked to full sensitivity? In other words, the same maximum volume can be achieved with full sensitivity+less channel gain and less sensitivity+more channel gain?
- That's a good question and is something of a grey area in live sound. In my opinion, as long as nothing is overloading you should be ok. Myself I would set both the output of the mixer and input of the reverb unit to unity gain, and then adjust the channel sends to taste.
For best signal to noise always use a compressor limiter , also better tables have a unity gain structure , also for line instruments you aim for highest possible output at the instrument and aim for unity on the desk
When you set the gain level on a channel, do you do it with the channel levels(fader) all the way down? Where do you set the main mixer level volume when you are controlling the gain?
- I normally will set gain with the channel fader all the way down, simply as a safety measure. Once you hit PFL the meter levels are independent of the fader position so it's just in case you have a very hot signal coming into the channel. Master faders are at unity position.
Is the proper way to set the gain with or without "Phantom Power ON" and where should the one knob compression setting be during this initial setup? Thank you for the tutorials and I am using the Yamaha MG20XU mixing board with wireless mics and drums and 1 electric guitar.
Gain can be set with the phantom power on or off as it doesn't affect the signal level. I would set gain with the one-knob compressor turned all the way down, unless you know that you will be using it for that channel, in which case I would set it to the level that you expect to use. Fortunately the PFL metering includes the gain added by the compressor.
RE-teaching this to our volunteer staff week after week after week after week... then the paid consultant comes in and teaches the same thing... Thank you for confirmation, I will pass this on. Sound check with full band, and setting 0db input gain. Can't skip step 1, or else everything else is a mess...
Glad you have the patience :) With volunteers who are running the same console with the same musicians week after week it is often best to give them a starting point for setting the gain eg 2 o'clock for vocals and 11 o'clock for instruments (depending on your console). I find that this greatly speeds up the soundcheck because they are already in the ballpark so only need to check the gain rather than set every single channel from zero.
- That depends a lot on what sort of music your band plays. But a good starting place would be a short 'room' or 'chamber' type reverb for fast songs and a longer 'hall' type reverb for ballads and slower songs. When playing live, be sure not to add too much reverb - generally if you can hear the effect separate from the vocal, you've added too much.
- Yes, but make sure to leave yourself some room to work with. Most artists sing/play louder during the actual show than during soundcheck! That's why I recommend not running right up to 0dB during the soundcheck itself. Of course some people get stage fright and then you're fighting to get enough level but that's not as common...
I'm a beginner. Please forgive this basic question. Why do you set gain while speaking into the mic instead of singing into the mic? It would seem like the setting would need to change as soon as the singer started singing. I may be confusing volume with gain. Thank you in advance for answering this question.
Hi Stephen, welcome to the sound engineer community 😄 In an actual performance you would of course get the artist to sing into the mic whilst setting gain during the soundcheck - in this video I am just doing a demonstration of the process. You can also use this process to do a preliminary setting of the gain in order to verify that your signal chain is working before the band arrives, known as a line check.
- I would say begin by setting the gain slightly lower - if the gain is usually around 2 o'clock have them set it at 12 o'clock to start with. Secondly check that there is no boost on any of the EQ - set all EQ controls at the 12 o'clock position and work from there. If you follows these guidelines you should be ok.
Hey brother thank you for helping us out on this roller coaster of sound we are on how can I improve on My Pastor’s mic from making the monitors ring super loud when near them ?
Thank you brother for the video. I’m trying to help my small church with sound. I have a hard time understanding the frequency knob how to adjust but I understand the high mid and low what it does. I didn’t understand the correlation between the frequency knob and regular high mid and low. Also we have the Allen health GL 2400 mixer. I’m trying to do a Facebook live straight from the mixer to the phone to get a good sound any suggestions on that and what kind of hook up I need please help.
You're welcome! The mixer shown has what is known a semi-parametric midrange section, in other words there are two parameters for the mid band: cut/boost and frequency. This allows you to choose the frequency that you are cutting or boosting, as opposed to the high and low which have a fixed frequency. That's the correlation.
I'm presuming that your main O/P level is set to 0 (zero)? Also, the gain setting for singing vocals will usually not be set as high as they are for normal conversational audio I/P, but the principal is the same. To set the gain just until vocal audio is touching in the Yellow.
Great informations! Thank you! What if using an external mic preamp coming with line signal in the mixer? How should I set the gain of the preamp? Can I follow the same steps on the mixer and the only difference would be to play with the Gain knob of the external preamp? Thank you!
You're welcome Sebastian! If you're using an external mic preamp with a line level output, then connect the output of the preamp to the LINE level input on the mixer and set the mixer gain to 0dB initially - that way 100% of your gain is coming from the preamp and the mixer is just passing the signal along at unity gain.
Hi Sir it's very easy to understand but my question if I am having mixing console which does not having pfl meter how can I set the input gain . please explain if it is possible
- Yes, assuming there are no downstream devices like graphic equalizers or crossovers that could increase the level to the amps after the limiter. A better system is to put the limiter just before the amps, or use amps with a built in limiter - most modern amps offer this feature. However, bear in mind that if you are constantly 'hitting' the limiter you are increasing the signal density, which can lead to heating and thermal damage to the speakers' voice coils, so it's not a 100% solution.
I really appreciate your lesson. Kindly do a lesson on input sensitivity on amplier that the voltage requied as gain that is whether 0.775 v or 1 v or 1.4 v. And how to opperate a 1.4 v amplifier with a 0.775 v mixer, please.
Thank you for taking time to explain things in a clear and concise way. Gathering help/information with regards mic ing up my wife's banjolele group for play-outs (they like to call them gigs) at various venus, usually rest homes and care home( captive audience(?)) bit naughty I know :-). Limited budget so running with Behringer power amp/mixer and xm1800s mics, we have Shure SM 58 when we perform. Thanks, please keep up the valiant work.
- Welcome to our industry! I would definitely get some training, either formally from a local college or more informally by working for a local sound rental company or recording studio. Watching videos is a good start but there's nothing like learning from a more experienced engineer and being able to ask questions and have your mistakes corrected. All the best!
Hi Bruno, how do you set gain with instruments like how do you test the instrument to set the gain like you were speaking in the mic to set the proper gain how do yo do it for instruments
Jidanov Valentin You would play the instrument at performance level (tell the player to play as loud as they would normally go during the show) and then use that to set the level.
But where should the sliders be? Thats ok if the sliders are off, but when they are at zero, the gains can only go up to about 10 o'clock before clipping ...Just wondering
They're called faders 😉 The position of the faders is not related to setting the gain - the gain knob optimises the signal to noise ratio in the channel, the fader dictates how much of that signal is sent to the output of the mixer. In general when mixing the faders should be at or around the 0dB mark, ie about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way up. In your case, what is clipping - the channel input as determined by the PFL button, the output of the mixer, the input of the power amplifier etc?
Good explanation.
One question: when you set gain. What level we have to set our fader.
There you go: ruclips.net/video/U54_AyR9SQk/видео.html
I'm a new soundboard tech at my church and was taught this wrong. My church uses gain as a last resort and the sound barely has any green and definatelly no yellow and red. Tomorrow at church I want to try it your way! ;)
How did that work out?
Absolutely fantastic explanation. English elocution and enunciation is perfect to boot. Thank you sir!
+Scott Rader You're welcome, thanks for watching.
I just got a little mixer and encountered a little distortion on a recording earlier today. I looked up videos on RUclips about the proper way to set Gain and Levels. Thank goodness I watched yours first. I watched about 6 others after and 4 of them were recommending absolute garbage. You really outline the terminology and principles so well. Thank you. I'm getting perfect pristine sound now.
Thanks Craig, very glad the video was helpful!
10 years after and still te best tuto on the subject! Cheers Bruno.
You're welcome Kiosko, amazing how time flies.
Wow ! BRUNO IS STILL THE BEST. He never ceases to amaze me with his very well spoken and easy to understand way of explaining things. Thank you Bruno! Keep rockin' steady my brother.
Always appreciate your encouragement my friend! 😊
I've said it before, and I'm saying it again. Someone who is so good and clear I have so far never found, completely world class.
All electronics manufacturers should bombard you with offers. Many thanks, a pure joy to watch listen and learn from you.
Thanks again my friend, you're the best! 🥰
Am a novice when it comes to properly setting up equipment. Out of all the many videos on the web addressing gain, your video leads the pack with your straightforward instructions and explanations. Well done. Two thumbs up.
Bill Leonard Thanks for watching, your vote of confidence is much appreciated :)
Probably the best audio advice on youtube .... Cheers man, Excellent comprehensive explanation.
You're welcome, thanks for watching :)
- Thanks for the question, this is an interesting issue! I would begin by turning your amps down by 6dB - if your amp level controls are not marked in dB, turn them down to the 12 o'clock mark, and adjust from there. The chances of feedback will not increase as long as you do not increase your channel gain more than the amount by which you have turned down your power amps.
I get my ideas here and it is very handy for a starter like myself, understanding the basics and applying them is fun, but thank you GLB and Bruno for putting this together no BS just straight up sharing of each important piece about sound management, God bless and more power Sir!
Glad to hear that, thanks for supporting the channel and all the best with your business!
Anyone who is serious about wishing to learn the correct methodology of mixing desk and sound configurations should definitely subscribe to this most excellent channel!
This is a VERY good explanation! The best I've found so far.
My Soundcraft Notepad 124 requires me to have the gain set to FULL up to get any level from a dynamic, low-impedance mic. I can't even get to 0db, much less into the yellow.
Thank You, Very, Very Much!! I've been hampered by improper gain structure for years. I've watched several long videos on this topic that leave me feeling that I've missed something. Your demonstration was short, clear and insightful. We have an event coming up next week and I'm planning on implementing your lesson then. Thanks again!!
That's great news Chuck, thanks for getting in touch! Gain structure is both very simple and very complex at the same time but end users can get 80% of the way there just by setting that knob at the top of the channel strip correctly! How did your event go?
Bruno, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We produce the Worthy Music Ministries'
Family Stage at the Orting Pumpkin Festival. The event is run by the Tacoma Events Commission www.tacomaevents.com/pumpkin-festival.html . This year the sound was better than ever and that was Greatly due to your very helpful presentations!! Thanks again from myself and the Tacoma Events Commission. Now I'm looking forward to rather then dreading next years Freedom Fair 4th of July event www.freedomfair.com/. Thanks again Bruno!!
Great news Chuck, very glad your event went well. Feel free to contact me in future if you have any more questions.
You know your stuff man. I do more studio stuff (mixing, tracking, etc...) and I can absolutely reaffirm your statement that proper gain staging is probably THE MOST important aspect of audio. It drives me INSANE sometimes when I get raw tracks to mix that have the levels completely jacked up. Gain staging cannot be stressed enough. Well done.
I have now watched several of your tutorials, they are best out there, bought a mixer couple of months ago and with your videos learned to use it correctly, thanks
That's awesome, all the best with your music!
- You're most welcome. If that is the case I would turn down your power amps - if they are set to maximum try turning them to 50% and then raising the gain on your mixer. The idea is to set gain on the mixer correctly and then use the power amps to determine the final volume of the PA system.
- Thanks for the question. In general, it is best to keep the channel fader all the way down when setting gain, mainly as a safety precaution against unexpectedly high levels. Console master faders should be at unity, power amp levels should be at whatever you have determined works best with your system. Once gain is set, then bring up the channel fader to hear the source through the PA.
When do we usually use the volume faders?
Clear as crystal, a lot of potential arguments can be avoided using correct technique.
Best explanation on the whole youtube !!! You are a good teacher and I will keep watching your videos . Thanks
+MikeMirror88 Thanks very much for watching, your support is much appreciated :)
+GLB Productions I agree with +MikeMirror88 this most practical explanation, will be sure to share with my team. Thanks for the tutorial!
Great console btw, I worked on Soundcraft Spirit mixers myself numerous times and never had a problem!
***** Yes, this particular console lasted 10 years at our church and is currently still in service at another location. Thanks for watching!
- Yes, main faders are set to zero (unity gain) although this does not actually affect the gain setting procedure using the PFL button - you can still use this procedure with the main faders all the way down, monitoring the output of the mixer on headphones. Thanks also for the good point about gain for sung vs spoken vocals.
this is really very helpful. it's like going to an actual seminar. atleast with your videos i don't have to to go actual seminars and pay. all i need to do is watch your videos and try to apply them. thanks so much. all this time i thought that its only limited to setting your gain input to 12 o clock..
Glad to hear that! Yes gain is designed to be continuously variable just like the gas pedal on your car - more gain for lower level signals, less gain for higher level signals.
thanks so much again sir. now atleast i know. i couldn't set my gain to more than 12 o clock cause i thought it would destroy my speakers...hahahaha...wow..thanks so much again. i've been watching your different videos. really helpful
Best video ever on gain principle. Thank you!! Never knew volume vs gain difference i thought it was the same thing! Bravo!
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
I always find this guy to be pleasant, concise and very helpful indeed !
Thank you
You're welcome Julian :)
I bought my soundcraft from my job in downtown Orlando. It is a piece of history! Kid Rock, Supervillains, Backstreet Boys any one who ever played the Social. I need to learn this Board and I appreciate your video ! Thanks and God Bless you !!
Awesome! Hope it serves you well for many years to come!
Thank you Bruno!
Your explanation was crystal clear.
The Lord bless you!!!
You're most welcome, God Bless you too!
Definitely can hear the noise floor slowly disappear when you reach unity gain. Great tutorial. Live audio isn't as forgiving as the noise floor in a digital virtual mixer. But too low a signal level causes many big problems in the digital world also. Thanks for the refreshment of this very important procedure in setting up the input gain sensitivity!
Thank you so much. I was having a bad feedback problem. I'm not tech savvy at all and this trick fixed the problems. God bless you.
You're most welcome Myra. Too much gain is definitely a recipe for feedback! Glad your problem is solved, and feel free to contact me any time you have more questions.
- You're welcome, glad they've been helpful. Yes it's fine to use both sets of outputs at the main time - in fact it is ok to use *all* of the outputs of a mixer at any time :)
- Yes. However, *maximum* system gain can only be achieved with correct gain structure throughout the *entire* PA system, in other words all gain stages are set to clip at the same time. In other words, begin with correct channel gain, then set the power amps to clip when the mixer clips. And then make sure you have limiters throughout the system to ensure that you don't ever clip the input to your power amps. Does that make sense?
- You're most welcome, glad it was helpful. The volume knob on the back of the receiver is normally set to 100%, i.e. fully clockwise. This should yield a gain setting on your console of somewhere between 10 and 2 o'clock if you are running into a microphone input. The reason for this is mainly consistency between channels, and to achieve the best signal to noise ratio.
WOW! I never knew that! I would always fiddle with the Gain knob to get the best sound.
Thanks a lot!
Kevin
+1crazynordlander You're welcome, thanks for watching!
THE BEST TUTORIAL !!!!)
Me too.....and not just with the "Gain"...
Vital information that's well explained. I wish complicated classes were thought by individual like himself.
***** Glad you could understand the concepts explained, thanks for watching.
Have you had the chance to play around with the gm10XU? I recently considered going analogue and I decided on the Yamaha mg10XU. I am used to digital than analogue so to say for example, when it comes to compressor, I just punch numbers on ratio, threshold ect.. of course assigning the right value depending on what needs to be achieved. When it comes to analogue gears, how far should I dial on the compressor during live vocal recording? Should I even bother much with the compressor during live vocal take or should I take care of everything in the DAW that I am using to record in combination with the Yamaha? If you have any notion and that you don’t care sharing, I would appreciate it in advance. Thank you again for your tutorial Video on proper use of “Gain”
***** I haven't used the XU versions of the MG mixers but I'm familiar with their 'one knob' compressors and I find they don't offer much control. If working with them live I tend to set them to 12 o'clock on vocal channels and just leave them there - this theoretically gives a compression ratio of 2:1 at a threshold of +7dBu so is useful for housekeeping but not much else. I suggest you use your ears and see what sounds best.
When recording I generally do not use a mixer so will do all of my processing within my DAW.
Thank you for suggestions and feedback. I kept my settings at 12 o clock on the eq. i first played around with the com knob and I realized that it didn't really affect the vocalist much. I was testing it then, I didn't really see the use on that application. I can however, see it being useful with a live band on Drums.
GLB Productions Bruno- thanks so much! I have one question. When setting gain for my line level keyboard what is the correct balance between gain and volume on the keyboard volume slider (which doesn't display dB levels). Should the slider on the keyboard be higher and the gain lower or vice versa with the slider lower and gain higher?? Thanks so much in advance. Appreciate your clear videos!
When setting gain structure, the fader on which you are setting the gain should be a unity, ( an important part of the equation) and the master output (during the mix or performance should be set to unity gain or just under. Very good video!
+mozart dedeaux Not necessarily - when the PFL button is depressed, it simulates this arrangement of faders. I feel it is important to set gain with the fader all the way down to begin with, as it prevents nasty surprises from unexpectedly hot input levels. Once you have verified correct input levels, then you can raise the fader.
Of course, if you mixer is not equipped with PFL buttons, the above is the only way to ensure that you are setting gain structure correctly :)
+mozart dedeaux PFL = Pre Fade Listen (also called Solo) which negates the use of the fader for gain setting in this example.It directs the channel output straight to the main output LEDs and sometimes to the phones channel. Does not utilise channel fader or main buss fader when depressed.
Very Helpful!! Clearly presented and articulate explanation of the importance of setting gain levels first! Thank You from Key West Florida!!
- You're most welcome, thanks for watching!
PS: My father is from St Petersburg ;)
Russia?
Ian Ritchie Stewart
No, St Petersburg Florida :)
Learned to mix on an X32 console, each channel strip has it's on input meter, so no PFL is required. But it's cool to learn that in case I ever have to mix on an analog board at some point. We do have a couple in use for karaoke at our venue, but I haven't spent much time to fully learn them, as that's not my primary job. I'm the event engineer for the venue room mixing bands, so I spend most of my time learning more about the Behringer X32.
This video covers gain very well so that even a novice could understand and implement that. Gain structure is the very foundation, and as you said, the most important knob on your mixer!
Some bookmarks for me:
Most mixers operate at line level
1:19
Setting preamp gain
(Loudest sections to be in the yellow)
4:11
Now - with audio taken from mixer main output
(loudest sections in the yellow)
4:48
This was really helpful, I will start doing this procedure right away.
Thanks, that was very helpful. Esp. the background information why you actually do what and how it is supposed to work was very helpful for understanding the concept. This should be a 1o1 for everyone diving into sound works of any kind (podcasts, music recording, music production whatever)
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
THAT was one of the most easily understood demo that I have experienced. Thanks a ton!
Napoleon Haney You're welcome, thanks for watching!
Great explanation, thanks
...one question what ist the difference between gain an fader?
Gain is the amount by which the signal needs to be increased in order for the mixer to be able to process it. Fader is the amount by which the signal is trimmed in order to balance it against the other signals in the mix. So gain brings all signals to line level (around 1 volt) and the faders are used to balance them against one another.
Finally it's clear to me, how to set the gain.
Thank you so much!
I am a subscriber now.
You're most welcome, thanks for watching and subscribing!
- In general, console master volume should be set at unity gain to begin with, ie 0dB. Amplifier volume controls should be set at maximum, or lower if necessary to balance different sections of the PA system. Channel fader should be set to obtain sufficient volume levels in the PA system.
Bruno, you are such a blessing, thank you and may GOD bless you for being a blessing to the music industry.
You're most welcome Elroy.
You are evidently a born sound engineer :)
- Typically companies will run the amps wide open because it's a setting that's easy to get consistent, and it will also give you the maximum possible level out of your system for a given channel gain. So it's not a bad way to do things. Sonically, some mixers sound different when driven hard, especially the analogue boards, so there can be a difference in the way things sound.
Hmm true, you have a point. So with this, is it safe to say that maximum system volume is not dependent on whether or not the amps are cranked to full sensitivity? In other words, the same maximum volume can be achieved with full sensitivity+less channel gain and less sensitivity+more channel gain?
Hello again what I would like to know is how are you hearing what's actually going through the mixer?
You would use headphones - pressing the PFL button routes just that channel to the HP output.
- That's a good question and is something of a grey area in live sound. In my opinion, as long as nothing is overloading you should be ok. Myself I would set both the output of the mixer and input of the reverb unit to unity gain, and then adjust the channel sends to taste.
For best signal to noise always use a compressor limiter , also better tables have a unity gain structure , also for line instruments you aim for highest possible output at the instrument and aim for unity on the desk
When you set the gain level on a channel, do you do it with the channel levels(fader) all the way down? Where do you set the main mixer level volume when you are controlling the gain?
- I normally will set gain with the channel fader all the way down, simply as a safety measure. Once you hit PFL the meter levels are independent of the fader position so it's just in case you have a very hot signal coming into the channel. Master faders are at unity position.
Is the proper way to set the gain with or without "Phantom Power ON" and where should the one knob compression setting be during this initial setup? Thank you for the tutorials and I am using the Yamaha MG20XU mixing board with wireless mics and drums and 1 electric guitar.
Gain can be set with the phantom power on or off as it doesn't affect the signal level. I would set gain with the one-knob compressor turned all the way down, unless you know that you will be using it for that channel, in which case I would set it to the level that you expect to use. Fortunately the PFL metering includes the gain added by the compressor.
Thank Bruno .When setting up the gain on a particular channel, at what level should the channel fader and master fader be placed?
I have answered this in another video 😀: ruclips.net/video/U54_AyR9SQk/видео.html
@GLBProductions Thank you kindly mate.
RE-teaching this to our volunteer staff week after week after week after week... then the paid consultant comes in and teaches the same thing... Thank you for confirmation, I will pass this on. Sound check with full band, and setting 0db input gain. Can't skip step 1, or else everything else is a mess...
Glad you have the patience :) With volunteers who are running the same console with the same musicians week after week it is often best to give them a starting point for setting the gain eg 2 o'clock for vocals and 11 o'clock for instruments (depending on your console). I find that this greatly speeds up the soundcheck because they are already in the ballpark so only need to check the gain rather than set every single channel from zero.
- Which microphone are you using? And what sort of situation - are you recording or singing in a club/band?
- That depends a lot on what sort of music your band plays. But a good starting place would be a short 'room' or 'chamber' type reverb for fast songs and a longer 'hall' type reverb for ballads and slower songs. When playing live, be sure not to add too much reverb - generally if you can hear the effect separate from the vocal, you've added too much.
Just recommended this video to a Friend that's starting /restarting his home studio. Great Reference Video!!
I like how you explain gain it was very good and you kept me interested
- My first question would be: is the system loud enough at a lower gain level? Or is it feeding back before it reaches a usable level?
Thank you sir, great demo, our church desk definitely needs adjusting.
You're welcome :)
- Yes, but make sure to leave yourself some room to work with. Most artists sing/play louder during the actual show than during soundcheck! That's why I recommend not running right up to 0dB during the soundcheck itself. Of course some people get stage fright and then you're fighting to get enough level but that's not as common...
Yeap, understood! A limiter on the master output channel would be enough to prevent clipping on the amps after gain matching the whole system right?
I'm a beginner. Please forgive this basic question. Why do you set gain while speaking into the mic instead of singing into the mic? It would seem like the setting would need to change as soon as the singer started singing. I may be confusing volume with gain. Thank you in advance for answering this question.
Hi Stephen, welcome to the sound engineer community 😄 In an actual performance you would of course get the artist to sing into the mic whilst setting gain during the soundcheck - in this video I am just doing a demonstration of the process. You can also use this process to do a preliminary setting of the gain in order to verify that your signal chain is working before the band arrives, known as a line check.
@@GLBProductions Makes sense. Thank you for the response!
- I would say begin by setting the gain slightly lower - if the gain is usually around 2 o'clock have them set it at 12 o'clock to start with. Secondly check that there is no boost on any of the EQ - set all EQ controls at the 12 o'clock position and work from there. If you follows these guidelines you should be ok.
- I'm sorry I don't understand your question. Are you asking about the use of condenser mics in live sound?
I’ve watched so many of these tutorials that I feel as though I know Bruno personally 🤜
Hey brother thank you for helping us out on this roller coaster of sound we are on how can I improve on My Pastor’s mic from making the monitors ring super loud when near them ?
You're welcome. I suggest decreasing the level of your pastor's mic in the monitors.
Thank you brother for the video. I’m trying to help my small church with sound. I have a hard time understanding the frequency knob how to adjust but I understand the high mid and low what it does. I didn’t understand the correlation between the frequency knob and regular high mid and low. Also we have the Allen health GL 2400 mixer. I’m trying to do a Facebook live straight from the mixer to the phone to get a good sound any suggestions on that and what kind of hook up I need please help.
You're welcome! The mixer shown has what is known a semi-parametric midrange section, in other words there are two parameters for the mid band: cut/boost and frequency. This allows you to choose the frequency that you are cutting or boosting, as opposed to the high and low which have a fixed frequency. That's the correlation.
@@GLBProductions Thanak you for explaining brother.
You really helped me a lot. You're a good teacher
I'm presuming that your main O/P level is set to 0 (zero)? Also, the gain setting for singing vocals will usually not be set as high as they are for normal conversational audio I/P, but the principal is the same. To set the gain just until vocal audio is touching in the Yellow.
Great informations! Thank you!
What if using an external mic preamp coming with line signal in the mixer? How should I set the gain of the preamp? Can I follow the same steps on the mixer and the only difference would be to play with the Gain knob of the external preamp?
Thank you!
You're welcome Sebastian! If you're using an external mic preamp with a line level output, then connect the output of the preamp to the LINE level input on the mixer and set the mixer gain to 0dB initially - that way 100% of your gain is coming from the preamp and the mixer is just passing the signal along at unity gain.
Another ace vid, Bruno. You explain things very well, fella. Thanks again 👍👍
Hi Sir it's very easy to understand but my question if I am having mixing console which does not having pfl meter how can I set the input gain . please explain if it is possible
With that type of mixer there will usual be a 'gain set' light that tells you when the correct level is reached.
Very nice - This is the best explanation I've found. Well thought out, great video.
Thanks for watching :)
- Yes, assuming there are no downstream devices like graphic equalizers or crossovers that could increase the level to the amps after the limiter. A better system is to put the limiter just before the amps, or use amps with a built in limiter - most modern amps offer this feature. However, bear in mind that if you are constantly 'hitting' the limiter you are increasing the signal density, which can lead to heating and thermal damage to the speakers' voice coils, so it's not a 100% solution.
Wow this video finally makes me understand how to set gain. Thank you very much
You're welcome!
Thanks so much sir. I truly appreciate your tutorials.
You're welcome Godwin!
This is awesome. Did u also do the Yamaha MG12 Tutorial.
Yes. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the video! What happen with small mixers without PFL buttons?
In that situation you would set both master and channel faders to unity, which simulates what the PFL button does.
- I would say that your PA system does not have enough power! Are your amplifier levels set to maximum?
I really appreciate your lesson. Kindly do a lesson on input sensitivity on amplier that the voltage requied as gain that is whether 0.775 v or 1 v or 1.4 v. And how to opperate a 1.4 v amplifier with a 0.775 v mixer, please.
Thanks for the suggestion :)
- No problem, all the best with making good music sound better!
- Thank you. Is that fully clockwise, ie at maximum?
Thank you for taking time to explain things in a clear and concise way. Gathering help/information with regards mic ing up my wife's banjolele group for play-outs (they like to call them gigs) at various venus, usually rest homes and care home( captive audience(?)) bit naughty I know :-). Limited budget so running with Behringer power amp/mixer and xm1800s mics, we have Shure SM 58 when we perform. Thanks, please keep up the valiant work.
You're welcome, hope the play-outs are going well!
Bruno, is it correct to set up each chanel to the 0db, than to correct it dynamicly via insert, if needed - I mean in the time of soundcheck?
- Welcome to our industry! I would definitely get some training, either formally from a local college or more informally by working for a local sound rental company or recording studio. Watching videos is a good start but there's nothing like learning from a more experienced engineer and being able to ask questions and have your mistakes corrected. All the best!
Brother.. when doing this where the volume fader should be ? Please advise. Much appreciated
The volume fader can be in any position - I typically keep it all the way down when setting gain initially.
@@GLBProductions Thanks much.
@@GLBProductions Thanks. Much.
Sincere thanks for you informative sessions they have been valuable in helping me understand many aspects of mixing
You're most welcome Brian, very glad the videos have been helpful.
Hi Bruno, I have 1 guestion. How to setup gain of mic when mix has no PFL button? Thx.
Mixers without a PFL button will typically have a 'level sit' light which will flash when the channel level is around the 0dB mark.
Only thing I am interested in is where you have your volume start pint while setting the gain?
I keep the fader all the way down when setting the gain.
@@GLBProductions ok and then up to the u when playing?
Up until it's loud enough :)
- Thank you for the positive feedback :)
hi sir, could you please make a video on how to set gain for instruments such as drum pads, keyboard, guitar.
Hi Raj the process is the same for instruments as for vocals - the only difference is that instead of singing into the mic you play the instrument.
Hi it was really good, how do I connect a 2 channel mixer to a Yamaha RXV 667
Use the RCA connectors on one of the analog inputs.
Hi Bruno, how do you set gain with instruments like how do you test the instrument to set the gain like you were speaking in the mic to set the proper gain how do yo do it for instruments
Jidanov Valentin You would play the instrument at performance level (tell the player to play as loud as they would normally go during the show) and then use that to set the level.
Okay thank one more question sorry how do you know what instrument/mic is plugged into which channel strip
Jidanov Valentin You label the channels with white tape and marker pens :)
Okay thanks so much :)
Another excellent video/teaching aid, learning as I go sort of thing. Mic set ups for ukulele/banjolele band. Thank you very much. Take care.
You're welcome, all the best with your music :)
This video was really helpful for my church mixer settings. Can you please make more videos on EQ settings.
Sure, I have another video on that topic: ruclips.net/video/m6McBjaU9PM/видео.html
hi....i see there is two adjustment knobs on front of my amp,what is the use of these knobs?
What if I’m using the mixer with guitar amps as speakers and they also have a gain knob?
In that case I would connect to the amp's line in or FX loop return connector to bypass the preamp section which contains the gain knob.
thanks for the video, can you make a video setting up a compressor? thanks in advance
But where should the sliders be? Thats ok if the sliders are off, but when they are at zero, the gains can only go up to about 10 o'clock before clipping ...Just wondering
They're called faders 😉 The position of the faders is not related to setting the gain - the gain knob optimises the signal to noise ratio in the channel, the fader dictates how much of that signal is sent to the output of the mixer. In general when mixing the faders should be at or around the 0dB mark, ie about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way up.
In your case, what is clipping - the channel input as determined by the PFL button, the output of the mixer, the input of the power amplifier etc?
@@GLBProductions Yes, thanks for that. I'm a newbie to mixing. You vids are very well done.