Rolex Submariner vs Blancpain Fifty Fathoms - Which One is The Ultimate Dive Watch?
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2023
- The Rolex Submariner is the world's most famous dive watch. As the Rolex watch that most watch buyers think of when they think of "Rolex," the Submariner may also be the world's most famous watch of any kind. Launched in 1953, the Submariner has faced many dive watch rivals, but none are as enduring as the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms. Launched in 1953 or 1955, depending on who you believe, the Fifty Fathoms is a pure luxury play against the Submariner's blue-collar roots. In tonights show, I review and compare the world's most famous dive watches.
Rolex redesigned the Submariner (124060) and Submariner Date (126610) in 2020. For the first time, a 41mm case was employed for larger wrists and modern tastes. Newly refined, the Submariner also gained a Rolex caliber 3235 automatic movement with 70 hours of power reserve. In a break with precedent, Rolex chose to launched both the No-Date Submariner and Date model simultaneously. Each includes 300-meter water resistance, a unidirectional diving bezel, and a Glidelock clasp with 20mm of incremental adjustment in 2mm increments.
In terms of price, a standard Rolex Submariner costs $9,100; the Submariner Date costs $10,250. Higher prices are charged for green bezel Subs and various precious metals, but the steel Submariners always set the baseline for the aftermarket. To that end, a preowned Rolex Submariner with partial warranty remaining often sells for $3,000 to $5,000 over its retail price as a used watch. The 2023 arrival of official Rolex Certified Pre-Owned watches from authorized dealers may increase the premium commanded by pre-owned Rolex Submariners.
The Blancpain Fifty Fathoms reference 5015 launched in 2007, but the model remains among the most recognized and respected luxury dive watches to this day. In 2023, Blancpain has marked the 70th anniversary of the Fifty Fathoms with a series of limited edition models, but the concurrent launch of the Blancpain x Swatch Bioceramic Scuba Fifty Fathoms has done the most to catapult the dive watch into the popular consciousness. Mainstream media attention to the collaboration between the Swatch brand and Blancpain has redirected a certain amount of attention from the $400 Scuba Fifty Fathoms to the $15,300 Fifty Fathoms 5015-1130-52a.
Blancpain, which produces fewer than 10,000 watches per year, is a brand defined by the Fifty Fathoms dive watch. Unlike the Rolex Submariner, each Fifty Fathoms is assembled by a single watchmaker after the individual components have been decorated and checked by human hands. The Blancpain caliber 1315 offers five days of power reserve, automatic winding, an an antimagnetic silicon hairspring. Extensive decoration includes snailing across the bridges, black polishing of screws, and beveling of bridges. Also unlike the Rolex Submariner, many versions of the Fifty Fathoms include sapphire display casebacks that permit viewing of the movement.
As a dive watch, the Fifty Fathoms features a 300-meter diving depth that matches but does not exceed the Submariner. The Blancpain's unidirectional dive bezel includes a famous sapphire cap that permits extensive use of luminous paint on the bezel itself - a feature Rolex cannot match. While Rolex always includes a bracelet on the Submariner, most versions of the Blancpain 5015 include a durable sailcloth strap. For extra cost, the Blancpain X71 bracelet always has been available, but it adds considerably to the Fifty Fathoms' already sizable price premium over the Rolex.
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The 50 fathoms is a culmination of everything there is to love about a watch.
Agreed. 5015 Ti/Blue is pretty close to my ultimate watch. Really. I'd take this over a pile of Pateks and indie brand complications.
Best,
Tim
The thing is, nobody is debating the merits of the Blancpain. The only issue, which is a deal-breaker, is the awkward proportions. Bring the size down and the Blancpain is superior. But at 45 mm, nope. I try it on a couple times a year and every time I leave disappointed.
I have high hopes for the regular production version of the 42.3 when we get it.
Best,
Tim
Once they make it wearable, then you’ll have to deal with a waiting list.
The race to the bottom (in sizes) won't last forever. The regular Fifty Fathoms does lock some folks out with it's size, but I think the Bathyscaphe (43) and the Act 3 (41) are reasonable sizes within the family.
@@EdwardViaTomatothere’s no race to the bottom. Offering watches closer to vintage proportions or at the large end of vintage sizes is not indicative of a race to the bottom. It’s common sense. A 38mm case diameter is not a small watch by modern or vintage standards.
By vintage standards, a 36-38mm case is already a jumbo. Realistically, a 38-41.5mm in the grander scheme of things is a large watch. How large it wears will depend on lug yo lug, height and the size of the dial. 42 and over and you’re looking at - arguably, an XL. There’s no race to the bottom, the watches are not becoming diminutive, they are becoming better proportioned.
@@waterfordrs22 I think the original was 42mm, and was large for the time, but built to an end.
Whether talking "vintage" or the present race to the bottom, you're largely still talking about the same thing, trends in fashion/style. That's just how that works (in waves). The AP 5402 was called "jumbo" at 39ish mm because it was considered large at the time.
I think having smaller sizes available is good for those that straight up can't wear the larger versions, in the same way that "mid-size" options remained available and sometimes limited to certain markets during the big watch phase, but I don't expect it to take very long before general perceptions once again deem it a bit strange looking for a dive watch to be (visually) smaller than a Villeret, on something like a 7+" wrist.
Anyone can wear anything for any reason, but I do think it's important to remain cognizant when it comes to something meant to transcend any such a span of time. It's not even about whether someone's own preference will change, which is normal, but how they're likely to react to their own change in preference.
The 45mm FF is like a UFO on your wrist. They need a regular production 40-41mm and they’re set. 42.3 is also good let’s hope they put it into regular production and make the price reasonable. And thanks for the shout out love your work Tim
Amazing episode with the macro live shots. Great work Tim!
More to follow. As we dial the tech, the shots will look better. Big-time watches will come next week to make the most of this system on screen.
Best,
Tim
What I know is: Carli, Italian historian and Rolex collector who was there when the sub were released clearly states in an interview on RUclips subs were not working until 1962 with the introduction of 5513. That’s why the seals discarded them and choose the fathom. The only working dove watch until the beginning of the sixties. Depositing a patent is one thing. Realising the working object another one. The fathoms still is he first proper functioning modern dove watch. Love
If our start date for the Sub - or just functional Subs - gets pushed to 1962, then a ton of dive watches pre-date the Sub. A huge number of them from many, many manufacturers hit the market from 1955-1962.
Best,
Tim
As always Tim, amazing episode. Thank you so much.
Hey! Great Video - do you have any comment on when the new standard FF might be released? I’ve been eyeing the FF for a while now but I just feel it’s too large…
A master class in Blancpain divers! Excellent show!
I had fun with this one. Thanks for watching!
Best,
Tim
*absolutley unbelievable idea with the macro lens!!! loving the insane close ups as Tim speaks about the piece!!!*
*fantastic idea*
MUCH more to follow. Next week is going to be nuts with lots of hardware from top outfits. Expect Lange, Greubel, and surprises from others.
Best,
Tim
Just make FF 42mm and Bathyscaphe 40mm, and people will quickly realize how superior Blancpain’s dive watches are to Rolecks.
This channel is way better than Netflix or TV!
That's a high standard! I hope I can live up to it. Give me a few years, perhaps?
Best,
Tim
@@the1916companyyou’re already living up to it now! Great work!
This was a fantastic Vid..Very informative and entertaining.Thank you.
Great show Tim! It’s an interesting comparison and the macro shots are genius. I must say though, the thing that struck me most tonight was your wardrobe…..Spot on! Great jacket perfectly tailored and fitted with just the right balance of formality and casualness, just like the watches you featured. Did you have a date after the show?
All in all, a seriously classy show. I’m looking forward to the next one.
Thank you. That's from Mark Cho at the Armoury. His crew does a great job there, and they let me pick the fit, color, and style.
Best,
Tim
I just bought an Act 3 & now catching up on all the Blancpain fifty fathoms content on YT for the last year.... so happy with my purchase & seriously considering a Blue dial gold 42.3mm also, it wears great on my smaller/thin wrist!!! Great vid 🍻
Not able to wake up in time to catch the evening show. But always happy to catch the replay. Great show Tim.
I appreciate that you support the show any way you can!
Best,
Tim
Best vid I've seen from Tim, easy watch despite the length
I love the bathyscaphe desert limited edition the most. your take?
Thank you Tim and team.
It's a pleasure to spend Mondays with my (online) friends!
Best,
Tim
The Blancpain is a beautiful watch on some parts better than the sub, but it just doesn't wear like a sub, if the core FF would be 40-42 x 11-12 mm instead of only the limited editions, I think it would be more competitive to the Sub, but BP just don't want to make as many as Rolex i guess. great show as always ;)
Great show. Love the macro shots!
It'll be even better when we have it in place for the full episode. This will allow a completely different look than just cycling through the graphics. And it allows me to make our actual watches part of the show.
Best,
Tim
Great job as always Tim and crew.
Thank you!
Best,
Tim
Fantastic episode, really enjoyed the edification in Blancpain Fifty Fathoms watches. Oh, to be a Tool!
I don’t see any definitive arguments about the FF not existing and being used by divers in 53. Arguments like patents and comercial launch in 54 and 55 do not mean the story of FF existing before the submariner is false.
Great stuff Tim.
I appreciate it!
Best,
Tim
My FF Barakuda is perfection on my just under 7" wrist. One of my favorite watches. Looking forward to seeing a smaller FF in the core line. They also need to decrease the bathyscaphe size to 40mm.
You and me both. I'm excited to see where 2023 ends for this collection. Maybe we'll see one more limited series before the new core model becomes a regular offering.
Best,
Tim
I find the 43mm Bathyscaphe to wear on the smaller side. In talks to buy one now and I never go above 42mm. The 38mm was too small and I own a 39mm Explorer and a 38.5 mm Breguet Transatlantique which I love.
@@DWilliam1 I'd love to see a slighly smaller version of the 43mm Bathyscaphe with the thin bezel. The 38mm I agree is too small and the bezel seems a bit too thick in relation to the dial. Unfortunately the 43mm just looks too large on my wrist
This show was 🔥🔥🔥 with that live camera of the watch! Shout-out to my friend Yamid for making the wrist shot!!
That's going to be a big part of next week's show. More to come!
Best,
Tim
Thank you Tim and Shawn as always. Rolex is Rolex as always. Blancpain 🤔 Some interesting offerings regarding the 70th anniversary. Good coverage across the board Tim, I am just unsure with the Blancpain pricing, though it is better than some of its competitor's. Still a good produced product. Great Macro...🥃🥃🥃
Between the Blancpain fifty fathoms and JLC polaris who has better build quality and finishing?
Fifty phantoms does. Esp the movement finishing
@maximl8820 who would you say between the fifty fathoms and the new Breguet type xx?
@@DavidEAngell breguet. I own two beguet marines and finishing is great
Sorry, but there was enormous pushback against Perez's claims in the comments section, and the narrative has shifted back toward the Fifty Fathoms being the original dive watch. Other RUclips channels like Theo & Harris took aim at his claims, and his Rolex fandom seemed like it took over when he wrote that article. The New York Horological Society sid an hour long presentation refuting these claims as well.
My fav is the nageurs de combat…the brushed steel, simple dial and engraved case back 👌
It's a good one. That might be the cleanest 5015 variant. A reductive approach suits the model well.
Best,
Tim
I bought the fifty fathoms with Grande Date. And I'm really surprised of the wearability. The Titanium Case makes IT easy top wear and use. Since I bought it, it ist on my wirst. Great watch and Something special.
I like that one. It looks like it should have been that way from the beginning if they were going to launch the Fifty Fathoms with any date at all.
Best,
Tim
Great show Tim. Bathyscaphe is beautiful but as per others the sizing didn’t work for me. 43mm was too big and the 38mm didn’t look right, lost the wrist presence which is the appeal of a FF.
Have you tried the 5008? It might be a great option if you're between sizes with the Bathyscaphe models.
Best,
Tim
I will do now cheers Tim. Or maybe the Fifty Scuba?!
Tim, you’re the best! Love it that you’re still wearing your green strap, same as from last weekend.
Thank you! I love that watch, so its gets most of my wrist time.
Best,
Tim
Wow, Tim, great jacket!
It's a great one. Tailored by Mark Cho's crew at the Armoury.
Best,
Tim
Depending on the brand, grey market can easily be 40-50% discount. If you're ok with little to no warranty, it's a massive difference in many cases.
Blancpain usually goes between 23% - 28% off, especially since the release of the swatch fifty fathom, which has spurred new interest in the brand.
You’re exactly right, I got 40% off, Ti on the bracelet. I then bought the other 2 straps from the boutique.
I always thought that the actual dials used on the diver, like the Submariner and the Fifty Fathoms, came about as a result from the military putting out tenders for a dive watch. And that tender showed the dimensions of the dial, what was to be on the dial, where to put any information, etc, etc. it’s not that one copied the other. Rolex and Blancpain have very similar dials, and very different watch cases as a result of their own designs and the requirements of the military. 😊
Amazing Nixon Ibought it because of you
One thing about the price: No one is going to pay MSRP for the FF. Expect to get a 10-15% discount from most ADs.
True. But if you can get 20% grey market with a full set and possibly even a warranty card filled by the dumping dealer, that's the way to go. You could also buy a 1 or 2-year-old used example for 30% less preowned and still get a year of warranty if the watch was retailed by a Blancpain boutique.
Best,
Tim
@@the1916companywatchreviews Tim, btw I cannot overstate how much I enjoyed this video. A very good, in depth (mainly due to all the diving watches 😁) review of the models of one of my favorite brands. Absolutely excellent!
Blancpain, hands down. I'd certainly take the Act 3 over a Yacht-Master Oysterflex (which is one of a couple Rolexes I actually like).
My grail might be the (sedna?) gold Bathyscaphe Quantième Complet.
Agreed. I'm in love with the Ti/Blue 5015. Even if it sticks at 45mm, I'd wear it. The lug-to-lug is reasonable even on the full-size FF.
Best,
Tim
Tim how in the HELL DID YOU NOT TALK ABOUT THE Blancpain Fifty Fathoms Bathyscaphe Quantième Annuel ??????????????????????????
Linen doesn't breathe and therefore is uncomfortable in warmer weather despite popular belief.
Why do you only show the wrist shots of guys with the high end high dollar watches? I am sure there are guys who send you wrist shots of very nice intro to mid range watches that are very nice to show.
If you've seen my show before, then you know I feature Casios, Seikos, and micro-brands. Unless you only watch the first wrist shot segment, you can see that the watches generally are mainstream luxury models and lower. But if somebody sends me a Patek in a Ferrari, I'm always going to feature it because it's cool.
Best,
Tim
Fifty fathoms bathyscape in 39mm and Fifty fathoms in 41mm,general production.... Why not Blancpain 😭
I'd LOVE a 41mm Fifty. I doubt the 5015 replacement will be that size, but maybe the next generation Bathyscaphe will be. The Bathy has always been slightly smaller, and, having been released in 2013, it's due for a refresh in its own right.
Best,
Tim
Ah. A true match up! Love Rolex in general... but Blancpain for me.
Me too. I can't wait to own one. Even at 45mm, the titanium cased 5015 works for me.
Best,
Tim
"even though everyone knows that Mimo Loga was first with the logarithmic scale calculator bezel on an aviation watch" ...yeah, sure Tim, sure:)
with emphasis on "everyone knows", I'm not debating the other fact;)
I mean big watches have been out of style long enough that they might be almost back!
This happened in the 1970s. By the 2010s, those watches were considered cool again. Good examples of huge 70s watches include the 125th Anniversary Omega Seamaster Chronograph 378.0801, the Patek 3587, and the Zenith El Primero "TV Screen" 01.0200.415. They were considered monsters when new but thoroughly cool today.
Best,
Tim
Fifty Fathoms is a watch I want Rolex is not.
~42mm in a diver?? No thanks Blancpain. Too small for my wrists. If I can get over the whole plastic Swatch knock-off, I may pick up a 5015 at the end of the year. 44mm is my diver sweetspot, but I think the FF with its shorted lugs and fatter bezel gives similar effect.
I'll probably still get the titanium 5015. It wears small for its size, and depreciation is real thing with this brand.
Best,
Tim
Blancpain dribbling, activated.
Disappointed that you endorsed the Perezcope article. It is not definitive and does not refute Blancpain's claims.
1. Blancpain never claimed to commercially offer the first dive watch. They claim it was the first created and initially was offered only to the military. Launching to the public at a watch fair in 1955 doesn’t change that timeline and, actually makes sense if Blancpain’s claims are true.
2. The 1954 patent also aligns with Blancpain’s claims. At that time, patents were assigned on a “first to invent” basis rather than “first to file”. There was also likely a year grace period between public use and filing requirements. So a 1954 filing date very well could correspond to a 1953 invention date.
3. Trademarks indicate a source of a good or service in commerce. Blancpain didn’t need trademark registrations until the Fifty Fathoms was offered to the public (as opposed privately to the military), so the later trademark applications aren’t evidence contrary to Blancpain’s claims either.
I'm open minded. If Blancpain has concrete documentation to refute Jose, now is the time to show it. The silence speaks volumes if it continues.
Best,
Tim
Regarding your point 1., Blancpain state on their own web site that the watch was „launched“ in 1953. on the German version of their web site, they even say it was „introduced in the market“ in 1953.
@@user-wi9nn6dz8w Hopefully. I'm rooting for them to bat this back. How much would I love to not re-shoot 30+ Fifty Fathoms review videos with a new origin date?
Best,
Tim
The Perezcope article could be one line long. All it really says is that there is no high quality evidence that the FF existed in 1953.
@@the1916companySame here. I also want them to bat this back! I asked them for their comments on this a few days ago. Remind me again in latest a month. It was nice meeting you at Dubai Watch Week in 2019!
Nice
Thanks for watching!
Best,
Tim
Conservation scheme lol love it
Yeah, flying people around the world to junkets for marketing and sales doesn't seem particularly green. I'd rather luxury companies just say "we're here to make money." It's not as friendly, but it's more honest.
Best,
Tim
I second that emotion it would be refreshing
One remark regarding Gombessa: this is the name Laurent Ballesta gave his expeditions, nothing Blancpain started. The multiple nature photography award winner has done incredible work. Blancpain supporting his noble cause for 10 years is commendable. This should have been an easy research before doing a video and now criticizing one single event (after a ten year pause by the way).
the lugs of the act III ar fare too long and the price is ... insulting. had it on my wrist and it just does not look that luxurious
I agree on the lugs. They look huge. I'm hoping it's just an illusion of the aspect ratio and not as tough to stomach as some Ball models that have reasonable diameter but huge lugs.
Best,
Tim
My wrist is similar to Tim's & whilst they are long, the Act 3 lugs look great on me 🍻
The Blancpain may be the first, but it's just not as iconic as the Sub - i dont care what anyone says. It also isn't as well oroprtikned and goid looking, not as comfy and doesn't give you that grest feeling you get with the sub.
Rolex gets a pass for lying about summitting Everest though.
Rolex never claimed to be the first watch to summit Everest.
That, the Milgauss CERN claim, and many others. But Rolex history - even the reality of it - is better recorded than Blancpain, so any meaningful insights into the history of the Fifty Fathoms are in short supply. I give Jose credit for making a good faith effort even if he turns out to be wrong.
Best,
Tim
@@cecaju9516yeah taking out full page ads don't count as a claim at all, do they 😂
@@the1916companyare we just simpimg for Rolex here? Their documentation of advertising shouldn't be held as credible either, they have proven history of dishonesty in advertising material. Why do they get automatic free passes where others clearly don't
The biggest Rolex lie ever said was inventing the automatic self winding movement. They had to apologize for that one.
Blancpain has lost the plot and the brands pride/snobbery prevents it from becoming a major player in the watch world. It’s a perfect example of a company riding on its laurels…right into the ground. The only Blancpain that I desire purchasing is the Hodinkee Mil-Spec and Blancpain stupidly made it a LE. Do they NOT want to sell watches?!!! Blancpain boutiques are nothing but museums.
it's working on me. If I had that FU money, I'd have either a gold Bathyscaphe Quantieme Complet or that Act 3. (Probably the bathyscaphe, though)
OUCH! Your sound is terrible. Are you in a warehouse, or some dungeon basement with naked stone walls? Really bad echo!
Best channel on RUclips! 🤍❤🕰
Thank you! I'll do my best to keep it that way.
Best,
Tim
😂😂😂 common……