In Japanese Claudia also specifically says a girl with a "グイグイ引っ張っていく" personality. "Guigui" (グイグイ) is an onomatopoeic word that means pulling. It means a person who can lead people without hesitation, with strong leadership, optimism and decisiveness. Aerith is the only character I know of that they describe specifically using the words "グイグイ引っ張っていく" in her character profiles in the books.
@@fiprosha Oh you're right！2 of the girls do! "ぐいぐいと引っ張っていく." The same as what Claudia said! And I realized Aerith's theme plays in the OG game scene. They really made it very clear I think.
I think at least 98% of all players know that Claudia's description fits Aerith more than anyone else. If they deny this, they're lying. At least to themselves, because this is soo obvious.
Also the fact that she doesn't just say Tifa. Usually if you know the person you would just say their name. Even Claudia knew that Tifa wasn't a good fit for her boy.
well obviously you didn't see any Cloti comment section and their mental gymnastics that Claudia is describing Tifa, and all follow like sheeps a false narrative just to fit their delulu point view (that Tifa is the main girl and the only girl for Cloud), they even say that without Tifa the story wouldn't exist. i tried to talk some sense into them but they gang up on me and bombarded me with imaginary "arguments", my conclusion is that most of Clotis are a lost cause (and aggressive), especially since they got a stiff kiss and Zack is sort of back
@@L4zyC4t I’ve read a ton of Cloti comments, so I’m pretty familiar with their arguments. Most of them are amusing because they’re so ridiculous. But honestly, I don’t think even they believe what they’re saying. That’s what I mean by them lying to themselves 😄
@@L4zyC4t That's funny because the story wouldn't exist without Aerith. I made the comment a while back on another FF7 video, that you could remove Tifa and tweak the story a bit and the story would still work. But if you remove Aerith, there is no story. Needless to say, some had an issue with my comment. Tifa is just not nearly as important as they make her out to be. In the OG she's more of a supporting character. Also in the OG she even says to Barret that she really didn't do anything in the lifestream and that Cloud mostly did it himself. I've never found Tifa particularly interesting.
Claudia: "Someone who can keep you on the straight and narrow and tell you when you're being a silly goose. That's the perfect type for you I'd say." ------------------------ Cloud: "So what you wanna stay?" Aerith: "Come on Cloud, DON'T BE SILLY."
Also, he says he hasn’t slept in a bed like that in a long time. Then it cuts to him laying in bed at his home in Nibelheim. Cloud feels at HOME at Aerith’s. She is home to him ❤
@@artangel23 yeah, which would correlate with the REMAKE artwork perfectly where he's standing outside of Elmyra's in his AC uniform while she's in the kitchen. 👀
I don't care if people prefer Cloti over Clerith but please don't lie or spread misinformation about who Cloud's default partner is, the game, although it doesn't tell you very directly, gives you enough clues to know Why Aerith is the perfect person for Cloud. If she wasn't, why haven't they even made Cloti canon yet? Many years have passed, it seems that Cloti is the most popular ship, at least in the West; and Aerith is dead. The romantic story is about a man who lost someone he loved but that does not stop him from continuing to love her and searching the answers, the Promised Land where he can one day reunite with her again.
Couldn’t have nailed it any harder here. And it’s not as if the clues that game give the player are hidden or easy to miss…it’s legit basic clues a 5 year old could figure out 😂
Yeah, and if most of the game wasn't clear enough, they literally spell it out for everyone. Cait Sith: "Poor Tifa." "You are perfect for each other." "Aerith's star and Cloud's star!" But it's not like his fortunes are reliable or anything. It's not like all his fortunes have been true or anything🙄🤣
I agree with this. I hope that in Part 3, after 500 years have passed and they show Red XIII’s scene, they also show Cloud and Aerith in the Promised Land.
@@Chiharu3pr9 I was actually a bit disappointed that Cait Sith didn’t deliver that line of dialogue in rebirth. Hopefully they can still do it in part 3 somehow.
Way back when I played the OG for the first time back in 98 I went into the game convinced that Tifa was the one for Cloud. 60 hours of game later as I'm watching the end credits roll I was 100% Convinced I was wrong and was completely sold on Clerith. This was well before any compilation media or crossover appearances in other games and everything that has come out afterwards has only increased my belief in this. If people like Clouti, that's great and I'm not going to shit on them for it. Aerith and Cloud both seem to compliment and support each other providing what the other person needs more than Cloud and Tifa (Made much more apparent in REmake and REbirth)
That's an awesome story and I feel the exact same way, as we get progressing with FF7 media it becomes more and more apparent how clerith aligns with the narrative and becomes stronger.
Hey man, I just wanted to say you're doing an awesome job with these Clerith videos. I really enjoy watching them! I'm a graphic designer and used to be a RUclipsr myself, so I know how much time and effort goes into creating videos like this. I’ve even thought about making my channel 100% Clerith-focused and removing all my old videos, though it probably wouldn’t get many views and would definitely upset my 680k subscribers LOL. Unfortunately, I'm too busy with life & work to make videos myself, but I’m really glad there are creators like you who make us Clerith fans happy and give us something to enjoy. You’d probably make much better videos than me anyway, with your great analysis and charming voice haha. Keep up the amazing work. I’ve just subscribed to your channel! (I also followed you on Twitter lol)
The whole "older sister" argument got on my nerves ever since i saw people commenting on it a week or two ago. Like, its clearly meant in the same way as Claudia mentioned it. If people want to see it that way, they also have to acknowledge the whole thing about tifa taking on a maternal role for cloud as time passes
I wouldn't take any of that seriously tbh. It's just cloti's way of coping to make up blank false statements like "older sister". No one goes on dates with their sister, unless you living in Kentucky or something.
yeah, I don't know who made up the lie that Aerith acts sisterly around Cloud, but it spread like wildfire, i see that lie everywhere where Clotis go, they try to make the Clerith relationship like brother and sister, which is very far from the truth, why would a sister tell her brother not to fall in love with her
@@L4zyC4t It happened because TheGamer published an article saying that the relationship between Aerith and Cloud isn't romantic, but more sisterly, which is completely false.
On a channel called Resonant Arc (who actually do make excellent arguments and are very fair to even the sides they disagree with, mind), the two hosts were discussing in one of their podcasts about FFVII and they casually mentioned that Aeri(s/th) is like a younger sister because of how she carries herself. I dropped a comment that Aerith is 22 and actually older than both Cloud (21) and Tifa (20); one of them responded in shock that he hadn’t noticed this detail all this time… To be clear I’m not having a go, but more emphasis on how they misunderstood why Aerith carries herself with a more carefree demeanour than the other two: that her traumas and how she responds to them are quite different from the two Nibelheim residents. Consider that Cloud is broken, while Tifa went from a more impulsive and lighthearted 15-year-old teen girl to a more reserved, mature-beyond-her-years 20-year-old young woman; Aerith had a traumatic early childhood where she lost her birth mother at 7 (and her father pre-birth), being adopted and cared for but still having a deeply-lonely childhood that left her cherishing the smaller things in life. More saliently, even if you don’t think Claudia is correct about the exact type of woman for her boy, I’ve never held to the idea that everyone has one specific person (or variety of person) “made for” them… If Aerith hadn’t died at the Ciry, I can see alternate worlds where either she OR Tifa could have gotten together with him longterm and had meaningful lives together. Differing kinds of lives, but no less meaningful necessarily; thing is we don’t know because the point of time is for Cloud a very tumultuous one… Heck, I’d say that we don’t know if Zack, had he lived, would have stayed with Aerith; they’re the first love, not the eternal love necessarily. So… what am I saying? Simple: Clerith and Zoti are the real OTPs!
Aerith. She is exactly what Claudia described. Aerith complements Cloud in a way Tifa never can. The connection between Cloud and Aerith is unmatched while Cloud and Tifa are always dysfunctional and awkward.
Well said! It’s core to Tifa’s character. Which is okay of course, but she in no way comes close to Claudia’s description. Thanks and glad you’re here! 🙂
I think a lot of the guys who go for CloTi prefer a slightly more passive woman. Controversial I know, but some folks just like hot, quiet women that won't question you.
Yes, it's very common, though leaning towards that type smacks of misogyny, well, or immaturity in my opinion. There are also cases that ignore Tifa's personality and assign her qualities that are more in line with her appearance, well, that's quite clinical.😅
@ladyvergerin6791 O I couldn't agree more! I married a feisty one. She brought the passion and I brought the pragmatism and practicality. Can't stand the idea of marrying arm candy. I do think the misogynistic side has grown as graphics have improved. There have always been decent Clotis - I used to be one, but recently their ranks have swelled with... Well... Interesting folk.
@@ThereasonableclerithUnfortunately, it's the "interesting" members of the Cloti side that are the noisiest and most visible in the fandom, and it just so happens that their behavior forms not the best opinion of Cloti as a whole, nor of Tifa, whom they idolize. Of course there is a bright side, I have interacted with an adequate part of their community, but these people will not be highly visible, for some of their statements will get them eaten by their own comrades. On the subject of misogyny, I can add the fact that Iris is criticized by many for her daring character (seriously!!) and the fact that she "humiliates and offends" Cloud! Also unflattering about her femininity in the sense that the heroine does not have the right to be able to flirt, show her "playful" disposition, wink, joke and do everything that can characterize her as a charismatic character. As far as I know this all started long before Remake was announced, but certainly the new games have attracted a new young audience that is easily brainwashed and of course the fandom doesn't get any healthier from that.
I remember a long time ago I explained the whole online wars for Cloud affection to my Dad. He eventually played it and then still didn't get what it was people were fighting over. Verbatim, he said, "For me - Tifa makes a great girlfriend.. but I'd want Aerith as my wife." There was a lot of talk about who Cloud really is and the fact that - Tifa and Cloud may have history, but it is so warped by the trauma and inaccurate memories that it taints how far they could really go as Tifa will always want the knight to save the damsel (even though she can kick ass herself) and Cloud will never feel like he does enough to meet those expectations. But with Aerith, there is no expectation or demand. She just likes Cloud being Cloud and wants to spend time with him because she enjoys being with him.
Such a well crafted explanation here, nailed it. When it comes to Aerith it’s legit a clean slate that was much needed for Cloud to grow and become who he is. Tifa essentially holds him back due to the trama.
Some will disagree, but Tifa's current affections for Cloud are rooted in her teenage fantasy, sort of to your point. Their "history" is in reality very limited and the games point this out directly. Others argue he can't love Aerith to the same level because he hasn't known her long enough. So I guess by that reasoning, someone like Zidane can't love Garnet (or really most FF pairings) either.
You know Clerith is canon when it's being pushed by characters like Claudia, Nanaki, Cait Sith, Marlene, Zack, Barrett, Vincent and a whole load of minor characters
I love the way you always keep the context for your analysis (NOT LIKE SOME PEOPLE) and don't twist stuff to fit your narrative Im so happy I found on you twitter AND RUclips 🥹🙏
I like both Cloti and Clerith but it’s pretty obvious Claudia is talking about Aerith in that scene, idk why anyone would try to argue otherwise lol. This video explains partly why I have such a soft spot for Cloud and Aerith together - they are opposites and fill in each other’s weaknesses whilst being alike due to having such lonely childhoods and feeling different to others. That scene in the playground where neither wanted to leave left such an impression on me when I played the game and was super sweet. :’)
@@mlwjrpg not only lonely, but mostly rejected by others. They literally accept one another more than pretty much anyone else in each others' lives (barring Elmira). You probably already know of it, but Pollen Ainne has some great analysis of their compatibility.
Wait...I haven't played the OG, but Aerith's literal theme song is playing while Claudia describes the perfect girl for Cloud? LOL. Pls...the only way it could be more obvious is if she straight up said her name 🥲
@mlwjrpg I want to someday!! :) However I did see some people saying things like "since when is the person you want to be with the person your parents want for you?" So even if she did say Aerith's name, they still wouldn't count it as a loss on their part lol
@@brileonn well yeah cause what other ppl THINK is best for you isn’t always who you will love or what you actually NEED. I’m not sure why this is “evidence” but it’s fun to talk about anyway haha
It’s just the fact that they try soooo hard to deflect that anything from this scene could be describing aerith like they seriously think the music of this scene matters more than the fact that aerith is shown and told to be the 1-1 description of claudia throughout the game
Yeah the music is something they’ve brought up, but even that is lying as well. I didn’t touch on the music in the vid because I’m not into music theory and mechanics. But I’ve talked with a few reliable sources that got degrees in music that explains the music well. I’d like to get with one of them and make a video about it.
When I played the OG, I saw this scene of Cloud's dream with his mother Claudia, I thought: well, he could have dreamed about anything else, but he dreamed about this, and that's pretty much to the point. So when reflecting on the previous moments, everything makes even more sense as to why he had this dream. Cloud spent an entire day with Aerith, and that was experienced intensely by him. And then I thought, OK, this is a reference that Claudia is referring to Aerith and the game's narrative is telling us about that. In the trilogy project, this scene again. In EC, this scene again. Obviously this is a key point of the game. It is curious to know that some media outlets were unable to have the same sense of analysis of this scene. One of two things, either they are playing the game and are not immersed in the narrative and details like this go unnoticed, or, point 2: They are biased. If the answer is point 2. Then, If you are a shipper who denies and disfavors the Cloud and Aerith narrative line... I have bad news for you who celebrate misinformation. If a communication vehicle acts biased once, there is nothing stopping it from having acted like this before, nor the next time. Today these people may be celebrating misinformation, because they benefit them. But tomorrow, misinformation could affect them too. One should never celebrate misinformation. The law of return takes time but does not fail.
Claudia meant Aerith. You can open FFVII Ultimania Omega page 077 and see the answer. Official book literally says: "Is the type of woman Cloud's mother recommends similar to Aerith?" It always was her.
Please keep absolutely cooking my dude this was a beautiful video showing all the relevant information and giving a well thought out interpretation of Claudia's words. You came to your conclusion without being smug and you weren't mean about Tifa. You even showed her scenes to back up your thoughts and did so without being awful to her. As someone who has always thought it was super obvious who the game wants you to believe Cloud loves, and who Claudia is describing, it's really vindicating seeing someone else putting my feelings into words on this particular matter. Especially when most of my friends are Cloti.
In Korea, you can literally call any woman older than you "sister (Noona)". So, for example, a man could say something like "Hey, Noona" to his wife or girlfriend, and that's totally normal. "Onee-san" is pretty much the same. During the dream date scene, male NPCs call Aerith "Onee-san" in the Japanese version. Does that mean they're her brothers or Cetras? No 😂
I just finished a K drama where the male lead calls his girlfriend (also his senior coworker) sunbae the whole time. I thought it was interesting, but that's because I'm not Korean so I only have a surface level understanding of "titles". But it did remind me of the Cloti/onee-san brigade lol. It's almost as if there are other languages and cultures outside of the West, who knew 😂
@@sansakitty9650 Whaaaaa?! No, that can't be dude. What are you smoking? Nothing exists outside of 'MERICAAA!!! (F*CK YEAH!). It's the oldest country after a- ... Wait, there are countries older than 250 years? Including my own?! Ha, good one. Next you're gonna tell me the earth is round.
I love Aerith so much she is so selfless and always thinking about everyone else and encouraging them. A true leader and heroine for sure. Cloud and Aerith really do compliment each other the best, the way she provides reassurance by taking the lead is very inspiring because a person like Cloud needs that push. She reminds me of Claudia a lot and I know the two of them would've gotten along great Tifa and Cloud are similar in the sense that they're both reserved and self-conscious, both of them need someone to reassure them and provide direction instead. Tifa has her own expectations given their promise and I think that has always added pressure on Cloud to be someone he is not for the sake of approval. Aerith is really perceptive and can see past the facade, that is why she is always teasing Cloud and playfully pulling him along so he can open up and just experience the life around him for once by simply being himself
I noticed throughout my gameplay of ff7 remake and rebirth that Tifa is hella negative all the damn time. All she does is grief, grief, grief. Like she wouldn’t shut up about the bar for the tenth time. She also only seems to care about herself. Aerith is always positive, and she wants to save the whole damn WORLD. Aerith also brings Cloud out of his shell. Clotis are on some hella big copium.
Claudia: You should be with an older sister type. Clotis: It's about Tifa. Devs: It's about Aerith. Also Clotis: Just because Claudia wants that for Cloud doesn't mean he does. It's also incest. The Devs: Tifa felt a maternal bond to Cloud. It was a similar feeling a mother would have. Also Clotis:
Yeah on Twitter you'll see this discussion come up at least once a week or every other week...And yes there are many posts and "agruments" that it's Tifa. It's wild lol...
@@mlwjrpg Always when I hear something about Twitter, I'm glad I don't have it🤣 But honestly I just stick to the Clerith spaces, to spare myself the nerves.
Who knew we would have a massive shipping war with something that is clearly explained in the game, but people are delusional and stubborn😭💀 Amazing video as always!! I love them🩷
Yeah I had no idea it was a issue until I hopped on board Twitter early last year. You legit see this come up every other week LOL Glad you love the vids! You rock!
@mlwjrpg I feel bad for the devs trying to make the players happy when there are people that only want cloud/Tifa or cloud/aerith to be the main story. If people want this, go watch Hallmark movies for goodness sake! (I'm not denying this at all, though, bc I've shipped clerith since OG & always will☺️) I think you rock the most for bringing us these videos for the clerith fans & others to enjoy! :D
Nice video analysis my man, been following your videos for a while now, this is the first time I comment on any of them. Coincidently I have been recently re-watching several streamers go through this particular chapter, specially the Claudia & cloud dream sequence, and boy... While I am with you, on the fact that the game is pretty self explanatory in addressing Cloud´s feelings in general with every character in the game. Like I said, been watching this scene many times lately and it click on me, there is an Arc to the Claudia´s dream sequence, and that starts in the rooftops walk, Cloud starts to know Aerith, we know he likes her (he finds her attractive, he "flirts" with her pretending not to remember her, and accepting the payment of the date), so what happens next? he spends the rest of the day by her side, doing the quests on sector 5, he gets to have a feel of her personality, that she might look sweet, innocent and maybe even frail, but not really, she is driven, strong headed, determent, noble, funny, sarcastic, sassy and mature. Then before he goes to sleep, he interacts with Elmira, Aerith MOTHER, regardless of the sour dynamic, he´s subcontinent latches on that, MOTHER, then he goes to sleep in a Cousy warm room, unlike the cold room Tifa got him at sector 7. So, then he goes and dreams with his own MOTHER, and of all the conversations he had with her, his subconscious latches to the time her mom address her wishes for the perfect girl for him. You know the saying... mother knows best. So, why Cloud subconscious pick that memory? Because Areith fits the bill, her personality fit the bill, check the marks her mom layout to him. But here comes the kicker. Cloud wakes up, and if you hit the bucket... this is not subtle, but I must confess I didn't see it for a long time, and to be honest until the Big sister dumb miss interpretation came along, then it make sense... Aerith come out of her room and scolds cloud, pushes him inside his room as a mature bossy woman would, as a mother or a big sister, that's the vibe the devs are addressing, that's the perfect example to me, that closes the Claudia Arc. You found her my boy. Any way sorry for the big text, keep it up my man.
I really appreciate that you’ve been watching the videos! I’m honored by your very first comment, don’t feel obligated to do so but you’ve got a lot of great input to share as you did here! Thanks! You reminded me that I completely forgot about the dialogue from Aerith when you get caught sneaking out! You’re 1000% spot on and this is so important! It’s further evidence as you pointed out Aerith IS THIS DESCRIPTION!
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Another beautiful moment was, when Aerith came to Cloud's rescue at Junon, helping him with his speech. 💖 Even if they don't end together in this retelling (something that I'll deeply mourn), Cloud and Aerith are soulmates, "star-crossed lovers", as Caith Sith said. The point of their relationship, at least in OG timeline, is to be tragic. "Traumatized protagonist just found someone that complements him and continuously helps him to get out of his shell and cherish his relationships? Well, let us take her away from him!" Oh Clerith, the ship that you are.
Yeah the Junon moment was gold! I actually thought of including right after I uploaded my video 🤣 Great example as you pointed out of Aerith stepping up and leading! Love all your insight here! Thanks for sharing! 🙏
Played Remake in 2020 without playing the OG, pretty clear who Cloud thought fitted the description, remember, he's the one who flashbacked to this scene.
If there was really nothing to Cloud and Aerith, these people wouldn't spend so much time and energy on aggressive and desperate attempts to dispute it, by their own actions they're confirming Clerith is real. Sadly, you can't reason with people whose opinions aren't based on reason in the first place.
It's a defensive reaction. TBH, Clerith's were like it after the OG, as there really wasn't much for us to hold on to. But after the extended universe/Remakes, we have more to celebrate now and CloTis are probably feeling less sure of their positions. Death doesn't rule anything out anymore, Aerith and Cloud have great chemistry, there are some wonderful Clerith scenes and Aerith is even more important to the overall plot. They are simply insecure.
Sounds like ppl are too serious about fake ppl’s relationship in a video game, including alot of ya’ll. It’s just fun since it’s a game. Not that deep. I think it’s obv to me that both characters are important to Cloud. And each person will have their opinion on who is best for cloud. I think that’s all there is to it lol
@@84rinne_moo I agree. I think both are valid, there is no canon and every group has the right to exist. Some people can't handle that and have to destroy the other group completely, hence the shipping wars.
Thanks for my weekly Clerith hit! Spot on as always. I've been spending a lot of time on CloTi channels, just trying to understand their viewpoint. Whilst I see Tifa as being valid, I cannot believe the lengths they go to, not just to talk up the Tifa relationship, but also to invalidate Clerith completely. I genuinely can't understand a) Why they do it and b) How they can ignore stuff like this.
@mlwjrpg Dutchdread I always debate with. He's one of these that will cultivate this aura of objectivity and fact, but ultimately he's just as bad as the basement dwellers, not content until Clerith is completely buried! You don't have to debate him for long, before the usual tropes emerge.
Also just to relate Cloud's mother mentioning about a girl who tell Cloud being a silly goose. In Cloud's resolution scene with Aerith in FF7 Remake, when Cloud say "So what. you wanna stay?" to Aerith and she responded "C'mon Cloud, Don't be silly". This also completed Cloud's mom of what the perfect girl for Cloud is. There should'nt be any argument there. Aerith is the ONLY perfect woman for Cloud.
@LoraFuntime Well of course! I do my best to reply, the past month I've been inconsistent at replying because the holidays, travel, etc...haha it's been tough juggling everything.
Awesome video! Wow JP version said girl who could, "Pull you along with her." Yes! How many times did we see Aerith pull Cloud's hand/arm? So many. She led him running on the rooftops too. 💕
So sorry to sound like a aerith fan boy but in the words of clouds mom find a good girl to keep you on the Straight and narrow Pretty much sounds like aerith Don't get me wrong I love tifa as well but she wants cloud to Constantly make her feel better 24/7 while poor clouds got his own Personal Baggage to deal with At least aerith is Patient and understanding
14:28 unrelated to the point of the video, but this is one of the lines specifically that makes me wonder why people believe things will be the same. They literally spelled it out that things will change
IMO Claudia's description is so blatantly favoring Aerith that from what I've seen most Cloti fans don't try to fight or warp the description into benefiting them so much as they just... pretend the scene doesn't exist. It's something they can't possibly dispute so they just deny and ignore it in favor of their girl getting an optional kiss and being alive. I suppose an argument could be made that Claudia isn't the true expert on what's best for Cloud or what he truly wants, but that adds unnecessary confusion to the story and I think it's really significant that the scene is given to you RIGHT AFTER meeting Aerith, clearly leading players to make that association to his 'ideal' type (and also probably indicating Cloud himself has recognized that on some level).
Yeah. Generally most Cloti fans don't bother with that scene. The discussions only start up because of an overseas interview where the answers are already translated and there's no raw Japanese text as reference. For many of us, we know what they mean. But some Cloti fans try to be disingenuous and use it to invalidate Clerith.
@@dojiz7242 Yes, I've seen the discourse lately about how Aerith is a 'sibling' to Cloud. Cloti fans are taking it at face-value to invalidate the opposition whereas if you just understand the context of Japanese culture it was actually (another) huge win for Clerith since the dev was ONCE AGAIN confirming Aerith is the type of girl Cloud's mother thinks is perfect for him. She's an 'onee-san' type who leads/pulls him along. Literally EXACTLY what Claudia describes is how the dev described her. To be fair to a fraction of fans, they lack the understanding/context of Japanese culture and took the 'sisterly' comment seriously (though I think the journalist definitely stirred up trouble and should have PROVIDED the context/nuance), but on the other hand I think a lot of people are just desperately ignoring the true meaning. They try so hard to invalidate Clerith and deny it as even POSSIBLY romantic, much less the more favored/intended route. I just don't understand that. Ship and prefer whichever girl you want, but the games and supplementary materials shove Clerith in your face so hard it should be undeniable that there is/was love there. Cloud MIGHT find happiness with Tifa in a future where Aerith is gone, but he clearly would/should find love with Aerith if she IS alive. I think that's the point they know and fear deep down, which is why they're so insistent that the story/ending won't change and Aerith stays dead. Because they know if she's alive, they've lost.
"...and tell you when you're being a silly goose." If that alone doesn't scream Aerith, idk what will. That girl is constantly telling him he's being really weird. Especially after that hand massage scene.
It’s Aerith. Many of their “romantic” moments are obligatory (canon). The kiss between Cloud and Tifa was a choice by players (not canon). And Cloud’s mental state in Advent Children pretty much says it all. Aerith broke through his shell
10:49 I can't shake the feeling of falseness on Tifa's part, her "shyness" sometimes defies logic, looks out of place and feels like what I would call "begging for initiative and attention" on my part. It's not everywhere, but the date in GS, Loveless, and the way she takes a long time in the gondola to respond to Cloud, who extended his hand to her, makes me perplexed and disgusted with the character. In theory, I can speculate that Tifa is indeed influenced by the "perfect wife" stereotype that was imposed by Nibelheim, but again, that's not something that can be attributed to leadership qualities. 11:31 I find this moment amusing, she's here in a "Boss againsst" kind of way😂, but I feel a bit sorry that in the open world of Rebirth Aerith doesn't feel the kind of confidence that was felt when we walked with her through the slums of Midgar, there she really was a "living person", who knows the city, knows the rules, knows the people - it's an incredible detail and demonstration that Aerith isn't your typical spiritualized and mystical heroine, she's just a "city girl" with her own connections and secrets.
I too feel the same way about Tifa and I think it's due to her discrepancies. She wants to be protected by someone and be a follower when in reality she can be a protector and possibly a leader just fine. When it comes to Cloud, she expects a leadership role from him when in reality he's just as shy and awkward that he doesn't know how to take the initiative which leaves a lot of their situations feeling just as weird. And when he does Tifa still hesitates as shown when he extends his hand to her. It's an interesting way to show how she meets him halfway.
One thing that I love about this flashback scene is that they can never use their "Cloud is Zack" fallacy for it. Just like how they did when Cloud shed a tear when Aerith is leading the way to Sector 7 and had some flashbacks from the Sleeping Forest. Because obviously, Zack's mother isn't Claudia lol.
I'm not a shipper, but i don't think aerith is an older sister to cloud, she have deep feelings for him, and tifa needs him not a spouse, to be a hero, a loyalty to her, and close friend, i love both girls they have amazing personality, but i think Aerith she's meant for cloud and i claudia was right about him to get a girlfriend and Aerith's on my top 5 of final fantasy vii characters
@@mlwjrpg and there's no way that Aerith & Zacki won't coming back to the third and last part of the ffvii remake trilogy, they have to, 'cause without them it's not the "final fantasy vii remake trilogy"
I know it wasn’t mentioned in the video but even without the so obvious description of Aerith and intentional placement of the scene, when Cait Sith reads Cloud and Aerith’s fortune he begins by saying “Poor Tifa” followed by how they’re a perfect match for each other, anyone who doesn’t acknowledge the statement IN GAME that they’re the perfect pair is just choosing to be selectively blind 😅
Of course it’s Aerith. An older sister type/older than Cloud?✅ Leading Cloud around without hesitation?✅ A Flowers Blooming in the Church track played during this scene?✅ Cloud having this flashback when he stays at Aerith’s house?✅ Had Tifa been the one, Claudia would’ve said Tifa’s name in the dialogues since she knew Tifa and the Lockharts being her neighbors.
Super late to the commenting game, so it's possible someone already said this, but for me it's most obvious that Claudia isn't talking about Tifa due to the fact that, if she were, she would have just said, "you should be with someone like, Tifa." Claudia knew Tifa. If she wanted to Cloud to be with her, or at least someone like her, she would have told him that. I love Tifa, by the way. I didn't in OG but do now in the remake trilogy. She's a great character with a crucial and interesting arc of her own. But I ultimately agree with Claudia, Tifa and Cloud are not right for each other as anything other than friends (which is exactly what Cloud needs at this point in the game).
I wouldn't call Tifa more mature, even if we're talking about psychological maturity. Tifa can't deal with her own dilemma regarding Avalanche's actions, Tifa is unable to express feelings and emotions, Tifa needs the approval of the people around her, Tifa is unable to lead anyone, she can only follow someone. About how she lives in her fantasies according to the OG plot and how it harms Cloud, and not only him, or how she tries to suppress him so that everyone likes him too, you can write a separate essay. I was about 12 years old when I first played OG, I wasn't as observant and well-read as I am now, I didn't have the ability to analyze deeply, I didn't have the internet to be influenced by other people's opinions, I had no reason to ignore the plot segment about Aerith and Cloud, the music and the sequence of events to make myself question which character Claudia's words were referring to. It's probably too easy to see the most obvious plot points.🤦
Speaking 🔥🔥🔥 Everything here is spot on and how I see Tifa as well. I do believe she has shown maturity at specific moments, but it’s inconsistent. She’s always taking steps forwards and fumbling backwards at the same time.
Tifa is well adjusted to social life, she gets along with people, she doesn't hide from them, life has really forced her to adapt in her new surroundings and yes, it is certainly the ability to adapt that can be attributed to a display of maturity)
Personally, beside the usual reasons, I think people try to deny this scene being pro-Clerith because they're well aware of both narrative reasons. As well as the importance of parental approval. If Claudia's alive, she would approve of Aerith as a possible girlfriend for Cloud.
There is no question about this. Aerith...it's not a realistic outcome since she was meant to die, but during their journey together they fell in love, and that is why we keep shipping them. Somewhere out there, in one of those scenarios there really was a merc named Cloud, who carried on his best friend's will, inheriting his courage, aspirations and legacy. Zack was living proof that SOLDIER aren't just lap dogs, but free spirits, seeking their own way...and Cloud completed that, by resisting and defying destiny, creating a new reality from his own dialogue with the lifestream. "Follow them, the yellow flowers" - she told him. Somewhere, in some place..he did, and at the top of those old Cetra ruins they found their promised land.
Thank you for yet another banger video, my friend! This scene is such an important clue for understanding the true nature of their bond. Especially since this memory was prompted subconsciously by the real Cloud. He gets to spend a day with this girl, goes to sleep and his real self basically thinks "hey this girl is like my mom's description of my perfect girl". People like to yada yada this with stupid shit like "since when is your parents choice of partner the one you actually go for?" Like you said, it's just basic media literacy. The devs put that scene right there and made the context around it what it is for a reason. Same thing with Cait Sith's predictions. Yes, in universe they are just dumb luck. That's how fortune telling works. But they are meant to foreshadow events. "What you seek will be yours but you will lose something dear" is obviously about Aerith's death. The prediction itself isn't magic, just dumb luck. But it's put there for a reason. For players to connect the dots. They even went so far as to change them for Rebirth so that ALL 3 come true in some way. Also as a Clerith i love that they rephrased the one about Aerith's death as "you will forever lose what you cherish most". It's no longer just "something dear" but straight up "what you cherish most".
I would assume that Rebirth's translation of the fortune is actually more accurate to the original Japanese intention. It's been a while so I don't remember the exact translation, but if you watch Tim Rogers' series (Let's Mosey: A Slow Translation of FF7) comparing the Japanese and English translations of the games, the original line was something more like "you'll lose the MOST PRECIOUS [person/object/etc]". So yeah, the original English translation going with "you'll lose something dear" actually waters it down and underplays how much losing Aerith will hurt Cloud. In general the English version of the original FF7 lost a bunch of nuance and subtlety that favored Aerith, but I don't blame that on shipping bias. I blame it on the fact that it had a single translator working at an unreasonable, feverish pace. Remake and Rebirth, on the other hand, might have genuinely had some shipper bias in the way certain things got translated...
“since when is your parents choice of partner what you actually go for?” This always sends me because they forget this isn’t real life, nor or these characters. The projection is wild 😂 Thank you for all of this, amazing insight 🙂
So this "feels like an older brother/sister to..." just isn't meant in the same friend zone death sentence way in Japan as in a lot of other places, I think that's where a lot of the confusion comes in^^ (a lot of willfull ignorance here though, of course). Honestly, I wish people didn't have to pretend that scene isn't what it is (along with a lot of other bad faith takes lately), it doesn't mean you can't ship whoever you want🤷♀️
I’m not necessarily disagreeing, as since OG I’ve always felt like Cloud and Aerith belong together. But GOD, shippers on either side are weird. Ideally yes, Cloud would be with Aerith. But considering Rebirth has solidified the fact that she’s destined to be fish food at the bottom of a lake… there’s literally only one choice. Not to mention, Rebirth really pushed Cloud/Tifa in a way it never had been before. And Aerith felt more like a friend. It was really weird, tbh. It’s kinda clear what the direction of the devs intent are going. As for Claudia, idk, I’m not so sure if I’d like my parent deciding who would be the best type for me. Cloud obviously had that memory come to mind because it described Aerith. But that’s what Claudia wants for him, not necessarily what he wants. Honestly, considering how close Tifa/Aerith are in the remake, Cloud/Aerith/Tifa would have been a good throuple, and I stand by that.
I think you made a mistake by not making emphasis on Hamaguchi's words because, regardless of how much do people try to twist and manipulate what he said, he literally described Aerith specifically using the very same words as Cloud's mother. Words that clotis spent entire decades claiming that were describing Tifa, until now, conveniently. Great video anyways, and really nice observation about the LOVELESS play. Needless to say that this is anyways also weaponized by clotis claiming that Cloud takes the initiative with Tifa's but Aerith has to spin alone cause Cloud doesn't really want to play along with her. Their insecurities are showing 😂
It's amazing how often the issue of physical touch comes up in Cloti vs Clerith discourse. So often I've seen Cloti fans insisting that Cloud is more assertive and willing to touch Tifa while it's always Aerith initiating things with Cloud, which... 1, isn't entirely true, and 2, definitely isn't the point in Tifa's favor that they think it is. There ARE several times where Cloud does choose to touch Aerith first (like for instance when he briefly takes her hand to lead her forward into the spotlight at the end of the play & song, REGARDLESS of who your date was), but when it comes to Tifa he's frequently taking the lead basically because he HAS to. Tifa herself is shy and awkward when it comes to romance, and WANTS him to take the lead so he's pressured into doing it, even if he is ALSO actually shy and awkward at heart and would prefer to follow rather than lead in these circumstances. I hear so much about how Cloud must be so into Tifa because he "can't help" but touch her and yank her to him in the play and (optionally) kiss her during the date while his physical moments with Aerith are so much more "tame" by comparison and clearly he must be annoyed and enduring her always touching him and pulling him around. And it's like... are we thinking of the same character? The same guy who had NO problem expressing his disinterest in Avalanche's cause at the beginning of Remake, and showing how annoyed he was at Tifa wanting his help and not having his money? The same guy who bluntly told accused Jessie of being desperate when she was all over him? If Cloud had an issue with how much Aerith grabbed him and dragged him along, he would show it. He would say something. But he doesn't and more to the point, he keeps letting her do it. Heck, in the dream date he was HAPPY to be led around by her and even pointed out the photo op to keep the date going (AND was clearly upset when they weren't chosen, which he shouldn't care about if he truly wasn't interested in her). Meanwhile with Tifa, I think her promise with him shows what she really wants - a classic knight in shining armor, a true leading man who she could play the damsel in distress to. Someone charming, and who would take the lead in romantic matters, more like, well, Zack (or Balthier from FF12). That's NOT who Cloud is or how he would truly interact with someone, but without meaning to she subconsciously pushes her expectations on him (and maybe even at times makes herself more helpless/pathetic to really play into that, when we KNOW she's actually very capable in her own right) and he tries to play that role for her. Romantic fantasies are all well and good, but her particular dream tries to box both Cloud AND herself into roles they don't really fit into. For me the scene with Cloud's mom just reinforces and clearly spells out the framing that is all over the rest of the story. We can SEE based on how Cloud interacts with both girls that he's typically happy to go along with whatever Aerith wants (he was a bit standoffish at first, like he is with EVERYONE initially, but he thawed out with her FAST), while his interactions with Tifa are often more stilted and awkward. Unnatural, since one or both of them is trying to conform to Tifa's fantasied romantic ideal. Claudia's description of the perfect type of girl for Cloud matching Aerith so well is just the devs trying to make it blatantly obvious to the player. Yet still some fans refuse to acknowledge it.
@@AlyssaJ14 I've never understood the whole: "Cloud and Tifa touch all the time and Cloud and Aerith never touch." I heard that one in Remake a lot where most of Cloud and Tifa's "touching" scenes are action scenes. I couldn't tell you a single scene where they touch in a non-action scene apart from the optional resolution (but that might be a me thing because I don't usually rewatch Tifa scenes much hah). Then you have Aerith in Remake. Cloud takes her hand on the sidequest where they save the two kids (which is semi-action I guess), then Aerith takes his hand when he's seeing Sephiroth and Cloud literally never removes her hand. Then he again takes Aerith's hand in Corneo's mansion to help her up, which he absolutely didn't have to. Then we have the highfive. It's small things, but Cloud literally knows her for a day in these scenes and they feel way more personal to me than him jumping out of a train together with Tifa. In Rebirth, the argument (especially paired with "Cloud only acts with Tifa") becomes even more absurd. Like... when does Cloud ever touch Tifa in a romantic way if you remove the optional scenes? There's nothing except for the almost-kiss, which is clearly Tifa's doing and not Cloud's. Pretty sure the only time he touches her is in Nibelheim when he puts a hand on her shoulder to comfort her when she's about to have a panic attack. And even if you add the optional two GS dates, it's still not "Cloud acting." I've seen people be all: "Oh, with Tifa Cloud immediately accepts the GS date, but with Aerith, he doesn't really want to." When Tifa is talking about friends hanging out and then asking him if he's up for "a little exploring." Whereas Aerith is all, "Hey, let's go sightseeing, the skywheel is running a special for couples." It's then also Tifa who takes his hand there when they reach the Skywheel and Cloud looks confused at best. Literally the only time Cloud "acts" is in the optional kissing scene. And even there, it's Tifa who starts the whole thing with her: "Or am I getting ahead of myself again?" Cloud's mocap actor compared that scene to the hug in Remake, where he felt that Cloud thought he had to hug Tifa back or he "wasn't a man." Then you have Cloud and Aerith in Rebirth. Where he takes her hand to put her behind him to protect her from the Turks, where he protects her from the sandstorm, where he takes pictures of her (which is not touching, but still a pretty romantic action done by Cloud absultely unprompted). On the GS date, no one forces Cloud to take Aerith's hand either, he does that all on his own. And then there is the entire dream date where he smiles at holding hands with her, participates in the couple shooting which was his idea and then hugs her back in the church. Aerith and Cloud have soooo many more romantic scenes and it's crazy how people can seriously look at Rebirth and go: "Yeah, only Tifa and Cloud have romantic scenes."
Oh I want to go into that but in a separate video. It’s truly funny what they’ve done with that interview 🥴 Thanks for watching and the input! You’re awesome!
I like both Cloti and Clerith but yeah this proves that Clerith is also the canon ship as well and cloud loves Aerith as much as Tifa. So these debate wars on Twitter are pointless.
This has been obvious since day one. I can't believe how long this has gone on and is still argued 🙄 I hope the devs squash this is part 3 and have real confessions of love not this read between the lines junk. Great video
Maybe the devs want it to be open to each person’s interpretation? It’s more fun that way perhaps. It’s up to them how they wanna present the story and I think neither ppl who think Aerith or Tifa is Cloud’s match doesn’t make it canon. It’s just fun to talk about tho. I don’t think it’s that deep. Damn didn’t know ppl were getting this worked up over this lol
@@84rinne_moo You might be right but this discourse in the entire FF7 community is really bad like people have gotten crazy about this specific topic. I think SE wants to end that tbh I hope they do.
@@SuperQueenV. idk I would think they would like that it drives engagement with the game perhaps. Honestly didn’t know about this deep “discourse” (XD) til today and prob wont even think about it in a few hours time. Like I said it’s not that deep.
10:54 Slightly off topic, but while we're here, does anyone have an explanation for the bump in Tifa's thigh area at this point? Aerith doesn't have it, the pose reads fine, but with Tifa I can't understand the silhouette, it can't be a knee, looks weird. I also saw that Yuffie has her legs sticking out from under the texture of the dress at this point, it's hackwork on her face, but I can explain it by the fact that the dress is too big for her, but Tifa is not so much taller than Aerith (although the dress is definitely too small for her) that the silhouette is so "broken".
This detail has been bugging me for a long time, it's too annoying, just like Tifa's feet sticking out from under her dress at the moment when the rating for the performance is awarded😅
I always assumed Claudia was describing a woman like Aerith but the there is one part of her description that points towards Tifa and I noticed you avoided discussing this aspect and it's "a good girl". Tifa can definitely be described as "a good girl" but Aerith certainly cannot, Aerith is mischievous and definitely the naughty one out of the two.
Being playful is all it takes to not be a "good girl" to you? Yikes. Yeah, Aerith likes to tease and flirt, but she's still one of, if not THE kindest character(s) in the game. She is BELOVED in Sector 5 where everyone knows and relies upon her, she goes out of her way to talk to and help basically everyone she can. In what world does she not qualify as a "good girl"?
Respectfully “a good girl” is 1000% subjective here…there is no cookie cutter definition for it. That can literally mean anything and it’s based on the person defining it.
No, she doesn’t mention/hint Tifa at all. Tifa wasn’t good to her son; she didn’t even play with him. There’s no reason for Claudia to describe Tifa when talking about her preference for a daughter-in-law. Saying ‘good girl’ is a general statement that could apply to anyone, but ‘older, more mature’ is a specific preference Claudia suggested. While she didn’t know Aerith personally, the devs clearly included this line and scene for a reason.
Think again: If Claudia had wanted to describe Tifa, she would’ve said her name Tifa in the dialogue. Yet she didn’t. Both in the OG and Remake/Rebirth.
Keep deniying no one has a power over devs that is over keeping this shipping war it's a nonsense anymore For years no one mentioned Claudia but now searching for an exit because Hamaguchi cleared it I mean have you guys watched the cutscenes or you just watched the Aerith cutscenes Kids don't understand head canon it's so painful these remake series has more romantic scenes with Tifa go watch amd listen to it So in my opinion the kiss scene should've been with Aerith as they gave her exclusive Song Default Canon Rosa to say a proper goodbye but why they chosed Tifa? Why from kalm to junon and finally in GS they kissed why Tifa because devs chosed her Keep arguing they said Aerith is a sisterly character who pulls pushes Cloud to show him his destiny have you blinded people listened the conversation about Zack In GS date With Aerith or Tifa Cloud Asks if Tifa talked to Aerith we get a flashback scene and seeing Tifa tells her then it's cut many of you say Song has written for Cloud but what if she wrote the song for Zack what if we don't know what they talked about we will learn in part 3 But I know you toxic kids will keep deniying but it's over the girlfriend has been chosen the kiss has been made to show growth devs saying this not me I only say things what developers saying and what I see in the game many of you neither played the original game or Crisis core But head canons well keep believing it
"Song has written for Cloud but what if she wrote the song for Zack" PRETTY SURE SHE MEANS IT MORE TOWARDS AVALANCHE THEN ZACK LMAO. This argument is so dumb....
You're just a Tifa fanboy c'mon, your pfp makes it extremely obvious not to mention If we click on it we can see your previous comments and they're all about Tifa
I always wonder what scenes people think about when they say "Cloud and Tifa have more romantic scenes." Because I literally don't see them. Can't think of even one romantic scene between them that is not optional. At least none where it was Cloud initiating. Also, I'm glad Aerith and Cloud didn't kiss in that gondola. I prefer Cloud to sort out his identity issues first, but I guess Tifa fans don't mind that he acts like Zack around her lol. Claudia's words have also definitely been talked about before Hamaguchi's interview and people have constantly tried to make it about Tifa when it's clearly about Aerith. And even without Claudia's words, it still wouldn't kill the ship because "sister" in Japan has not the same meaning as "sister" in the West. You can use it for literal strangers and it does not have to imply actual family-bond-relations are all. But, you know, considering Hamaguchi not only describes Aerith as the sister type (like Claudia) but also mentions Aerith leading Cloud around (like Claudia), it becomes pretty obvious that this Hamaguchi comment is pro-Clerith lol.
@fiprosha I don't know about the people that they thought the description of Claudia they thought it's Tifa I personally think too it's for Aerith but there's one real think in the real world not everyone going for the girl that their mother wants to be with that kind I don't have problem people to have their own favorite ships whatsoever you can't change the reality of what happened in rebirth what the developers said they make up the story and they making it officially For the part about romantic scenes between them Cloud and Tifa that depends how you watched those scenes or listened to the conversation No one has the power to change the fact no one only developers can Hamaguchi didn't said only Aerith is Sisterly he clarified Aerith is sisterly to Cloud not romantically what you searching more in Japanese terms sisterly can mean differently but he said not romantically he also said there's liking and liking whatever bro I'm waiting for part 3 and following the developers what they say I don't listen to this shipping things I get annoyed only kids don't want to accept the truth even after developers said it because kids didn't get their own wish Like I said no one has the power to change this what they showed us and said have your own shipping but Learn to accept what the developers said
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
In Japanese Claudia also specifically says a girl with a "グイグイ引っ張っていく" personality.
"Guigui" (グイグイ) is an onomatopoeic word that means pulling. It means a person who can lead people without hesitation, with strong leadership, optimism and decisiveness.
Aerith is the only character I know of that they describe specifically using the words "グイグイ引っ張っていく" in her character profiles in the books.
Wow thank you for the input and insight! That’s very interesting about “Guigui”
It's also how the girl in Costa describes Aerith when they ask Cloud and her to go on a date in the sidequest.
@@mlwjrpg Thank you for posting these interesting videos!
@@fiprosha Oh you're right！2 of the girls do! "ぐいぐいと引っ張っていく." The same as what Claudia said! And I realized Aerith's theme plays in the OG game scene. They really made it very clear I think.
I think at least 98% of all players know that Claudia's description fits Aerith more than anyone else. If they deny this, they're lying. At least to themselves, because this is soo obvious.
100% spot on here, imagine self gaslighting your own self to believe Claudia's description isn't about Aerith...yikes
Also the fact that she doesn't just say Tifa. Usually if you know the person you would just say their name. Even Claudia knew that Tifa wasn't a good fit for her boy.
well obviously you didn't see any Cloti comment section and their mental gymnastics that Claudia is describing Tifa, and all follow like sheeps a false narrative just to fit their delulu point view (that Tifa is the main girl and the only girl for Cloud), they even say that without Tifa the story wouldn't exist. i tried to talk some sense into them but they gang up on me and bombarded me with imaginary "arguments", my conclusion is that most of Clotis are a lost cause (and aggressive), especially since they got a stiff kiss and Zack is sort of back
@@L4zyC4t I’ve read a ton of Cloti comments, so I’m pretty familiar with their arguments. Most of them are amusing because they’re so ridiculous. But honestly, I don’t think even they believe what they’re saying. That’s what I mean by them lying to themselves 😄
@@L4zyC4t That's funny because the story wouldn't exist without Aerith. I made the comment a while back on another FF7 video, that you could remove Tifa and tweak the story a bit and the story would still work. But if you remove Aerith, there is no story. Needless to say, some had an issue with my comment. Tifa is just not nearly as important as they make her out to be. In the OG she's more of a supporting character. Also in the OG she even says to Barret that she really didn't do anything in the lifestream and that Cloud mostly did it himself. I've never found Tifa particularly interesting.
Claudia: "Someone who can keep you on the straight and narrow and tell you when you're being a silly goose. That's the perfect type for you I'd say."
------------------------
Cloud: "So what you wanna stay?"
Aerith: "Come on Cloud, DON'T BE SILLY."
Nailed it Ryan!!! 💪💪
This should have been enough… but apparently now for CTs 🙄
Also, he says he hasn’t slept in a bed like that in a long time. Then it cuts to him laying in bed at his home in Nibelheim. Cloud feels at HOME at Aerith’s. She is home to him ❤
@@artangel23 yeah, which would correlate with the REMAKE artwork perfectly where he's standing outside of Elmyra's in his AC uniform while she's in the kitchen. 👀
It's confirmed Cloud's mom is a Clerith shipper lol
I don't care if people prefer Cloti over Clerith but please don't lie or spread misinformation about who Cloud's default partner is, the game, although it doesn't tell you very directly, gives you enough clues to know Why Aerith is the perfect person for Cloud. If she wasn't, why haven't they even made Cloti canon yet? Many years have passed, it seems that Cloti is the most popular ship, at least in the West; and Aerith is dead.
The romantic story is about a man who lost someone he loved but that does not stop him from continuing to love her and searching the answers, the Promised Land where he can one day reunite with her again.
Couldn’t have nailed it any harder here. And it’s not as if the clues that game give the player are hidden or easy to miss…it’s legit basic clues a 5 year old could figure out 😂
Yeah, and if most of the game wasn't clear enough, they literally spell it out for everyone.
Cait Sith:
"Poor Tifa."
"You are perfect for each other."
"Aerith's star and Cloud's star!"
But it's not like his fortunes are reliable or anything. It's not like all his fortunes have been true or anything🙄🤣
I agree with this. I hope that in Part 3, after 500 years have passed and they show Red XIII’s scene, they also show Cloud and Aerith in the Promised Land.
@@Chiharu3pr9 I was actually a bit disappointed that Cait Sith didn’t deliver that line of dialogue in rebirth. Hopefully they can still do it in part 3 somehow.
So glad somebody made a video on this. The devs didn't put the Claudia scene in there for nothing. It had a purpose.
Way back when I played the OG for the first time back in 98 I went into the game convinced that Tifa was the one for Cloud. 60 hours of game later as I'm watching the end credits roll I was 100% Convinced I was wrong and was completely sold on Clerith.
This was well before any compilation media or crossover appearances in other games and everything that has come out afterwards has only increased my belief in this. If people like Clouti, that's great and I'm not going to shit on them for it. Aerith and Cloud both seem to compliment and support each other providing what the other person needs more than Cloud and Tifa (Made much more apparent in REmake and REbirth)
That's an awesome story and I feel the exact same way, as we get progressing with FF7 media it becomes more and more apparent how clerith aligns with the narrative and becomes stronger.
Hey man, I just wanted to say you're doing an awesome job with these Clerith videos. I really enjoy watching them! I'm a graphic designer and used to be a RUclipsr myself, so I know how much time and effort goes into creating videos like this. I’ve even thought about making my channel 100% Clerith-focused and removing all my old videos, though it probably wouldn’t get many views and would definitely upset my 680k subscribers LOL. Unfortunately, I'm too busy with life & work to make videos myself, but I’m really glad there are creators like you who make us Clerith fans happy and give us something to enjoy. You’d probably make much better videos than me anyway, with your great analysis and charming voice haha. Keep up the amazing work. I’ve just subscribed to your channel! (I also followed you on Twitter lol)
The whole "older sister" argument got on my nerves ever since i saw people commenting on it a week or two ago. Like, its clearly meant in the same way as Claudia mentioned it. If people want to see it that way, they also have to acknowledge the whole thing about tifa taking on a maternal role for cloud as time passes
I want to dedicate a video to that specifically! So damn silly “siblings” smh
I wouldn't take any of that seriously tbh. It's just cloti's way of coping to make up blank false statements like "older sister". No one goes on dates with their sister, unless you living in Kentucky or something.
yeah, I don't know who made up the lie that Aerith acts sisterly around Cloud, but it spread like wildfire, i see that lie everywhere where Clotis go, they try to make the Clerith relationship like brother and sister, which is very far from the truth, why would a sister tell her brother not to fall in love with her
@@L4zyC4t It happened because TheGamer published an article saying that the relationship between Aerith and Cloud isn't romantic, but more sisterly, which is completely false.
On a channel called Resonant Arc (who actually do make excellent arguments and are very fair to even the sides they disagree with, mind), the two hosts were discussing in one of their podcasts about FFVII and they casually mentioned that Aeri(s/th) is like a younger sister because of how she carries herself. I dropped a comment that Aerith is 22 and actually older than both Cloud (21) and Tifa (20); one of them responded in shock that he hadn’t noticed this detail all this time…
To be clear I’m not having a go, but more emphasis on how they misunderstood why Aerith carries herself with a more carefree demeanour than the other two: that her traumas and how she responds to them are quite different from the two Nibelheim residents. Consider that Cloud is broken, while Tifa went from a more impulsive and lighthearted 15-year-old teen girl to a more reserved, mature-beyond-her-years 20-year-old young woman; Aerith had a traumatic early childhood where she lost her birth mother at 7 (and her father pre-birth), being adopted and cared for but still having a deeply-lonely childhood that left her cherishing the smaller things in life.
More saliently, even if you don’t think Claudia is correct about the exact type of woman for her boy, I’ve never held to the idea that everyone has one specific person (or variety of person) “made for” them… If Aerith hadn’t died at the Ciry, I can see alternate worlds where either she OR Tifa could have gotten together with him longterm and had meaningful lives together. Differing kinds of lives, but no less meaningful necessarily; thing is we don’t know because the point of time is for Cloud a very tumultuous one… Heck, I’d say that we don’t know if Zack, had he lived, would have stayed with Aerith; they’re the first love, not the eternal love necessarily.
So… what am I saying? Simple: Clerith and Zoti are the real OTPs!
Aerith. She is exactly what Claudia described. Aerith complements Cloud in a way Tifa never can. The connection between Cloud and Aerith is unmatched while Cloud and Tifa are always dysfunctional and awkward.
Tifa being very indecisive is part of her people pleasing nature. She hesitates a lot. Thanks once again for a well articulated video.
Well said! It’s core to Tifa’s character. Which is okay of course, but she in no way comes close to Claudia’s description. Thanks and glad you’re here! 🙂
I think a lot of the guys who go for CloTi prefer a slightly more passive woman. Controversial I know, but some folks just like hot, quiet women that won't question you.
Yes, it's very common, though leaning towards that type smacks of misogyny, well, or immaturity in my opinion. There are also cases that ignore Tifa's personality and assign her qualities that are more in line with her appearance, well, that's quite clinical.😅
@ladyvergerin6791 O I couldn't agree more! I married a feisty one. She brought the passion and I brought the pragmatism and practicality. Can't stand the idea of marrying arm candy.
I do think the misogynistic side has grown as graphics have improved. There have always been decent Clotis - I used to be one, but recently their ranks have swelled with... Well... Interesting folk.
@@ThereasonableclerithUnfortunately, it's the "interesting" members of the Cloti side that are the noisiest and most visible in the fandom, and it just so happens that their behavior forms not the best opinion of Cloti as a whole, nor of Tifa, whom they idolize. Of course there is a bright side, I have interacted with an adequate part of their community, but these people will not be highly visible, for some of their statements will get them eaten by their own comrades.
On the subject of misogyny, I can add the fact that Iris is criticized by many for her daring character (seriously!!) and the fact that she "humiliates and offends" Cloud! Also unflattering about her femininity in the sense that the heroine does not have the right to be able to flirt, show her "playful" disposition, wink, joke and do everything that can characterize her as a charismatic character.
As far as I know this all started long before Remake was announced, but certainly the new games have attracted a new young audience that is easily brainwashed and of course the fandom doesn't get any healthier from that.
Thank you for taking on the recent Hamaguchi quote misread, and God bless you for having the patience to dedicate a full video to that.
I remember a long time ago I explained the whole online wars for Cloud affection to my Dad. He eventually played it and then still didn't get what it was people were fighting over. Verbatim, he said, "For me - Tifa makes a great girlfriend.. but I'd want Aerith as my wife." There was a lot of talk about who Cloud really is and the fact that - Tifa and Cloud may have history, but it is so warped by the trauma and inaccurate memories that it taints how far they could really go as Tifa will always want the knight to save the damsel (even though she can kick ass herself) and Cloud will never feel like he does enough to meet those expectations. But with Aerith, there is no expectation or demand. She just likes Cloud being Cloud and wants to spend time with him because she enjoys being with him.
Such a well crafted explanation here, nailed it. When it comes to Aerith it’s legit a clean slate that was much needed for Cloud to grow and become who he is. Tifa essentially holds him back due to the trama.
Some will disagree, but Tifa's current affections for Cloud are rooted in her teenage fantasy, sort of to your point. Their "history" is in reality very limited and the games point this out directly. Others argue he can't love Aerith to the same level because he hasn't known her long enough. So I guess by that reasoning, someone like Zidane can't love Garnet (or really most FF pairings) either.
THAT ROSA LOVELESS DIFFERENCE IS INSANE I DIDN'T CATCH THAT BROOO 😭. She's always so ready to lead I love that....
Ah Clerith, the ship that you are. I'll never forget you for as long as I live
I’m right there with you!
You know Clerith is canon when it's being pushed by characters like Claudia, Nanaki, Cait Sith, Marlene, Zack, Barrett, Vincent and a whole load of minor characters
Flowers Blooming in the Church in the background should make it super obvious.
Exactly this 😎
I love the way you always keep the context for your analysis (NOT LIKE SOME PEOPLE) and don't twist stuff to fit your narrative
Im so happy I found on you twitter AND RUclips 🥹🙏
These words are beautiful! 🥺 I’m so happy that you’re here and found me!
You know what they say, mother truly knows you the best.
I like both Cloti and Clerith but it’s pretty obvious Claudia is talking about Aerith in that scene, idk why anyone would try to argue otherwise lol. This video explains partly why I have such a soft spot for Cloud and Aerith together - they are opposites and fill in each other’s weaknesses whilst being alike due to having such lonely childhoods and feeling different to others. That scene in the playground where neither wanted to leave left such an impression on me when I played the game and was super sweet. :’)
I love how you mentioned them having lonely childhoods. It’s not talked about enough this similarity. Great insight 🙂
@@mlwjrpg not only lonely, but mostly rejected by others. They literally accept one another more than pretty much anyone else in each others' lives (barring Elmira). You probably already know of it, but Pollen Ainne has some great analysis of their compatibility.
Wait...I haven't played the OG, but Aerith's literal theme song is playing while Claudia describes the perfect girl for Cloud? LOL. Pls...the only way it could be more obvious is if she straight up said her name 🥲
The game might as well should have just had Claudia say Aerith 😂😂😂
Also go play OG! You’ll love it!
@mlwjrpg I want to someday!! :)
However I did see some people saying things like "since when is the person you want to be with the person your parents want for you?" So even if she did say Aerith's name, they still wouldn't count it as a loss on their part lol
@@brileonn well yeah cause what other ppl THINK is best for you isn’t always who you will love or what you actually NEED. I’m not sure why this is “evidence” but it’s fun to talk about anyway haha
It’s just the fact that they try soooo hard to deflect that anything from this scene could be describing aerith
like they seriously think the music of this scene matters more than the fact that aerith is shown and told to be the 1-1 description of claudia throughout the game
Yeah the music is something they’ve brought up, but even that is lying as well. I didn’t touch on the music in the vid because I’m not into music theory and mechanics. But I’ve talked with a few reliable sources that got degrees in music that explains the music well. I’d like to get with one of them and make a video about it.
I wonder if any SE/FF7R dev/worker watches this and they're like "Oh, gee! We can't hide this anymore."
“How’d he figure it out?” 😂
When I played the OG, I saw this scene of Cloud's dream with his mother Claudia, I thought: well, he could have dreamed about anything else, but he dreamed about this, and that's pretty much to the point. So when reflecting on the previous moments, everything makes even more sense as to why he had this dream. Cloud spent an entire day with Aerith,
and that was experienced intensely by him.
And then I thought, OK, this is a reference that Claudia is referring to Aerith and the game's narrative is telling us about that.
In the trilogy project, this scene again.
In EC, this scene again. Obviously this is a key point of the game.
It is curious to know that some media outlets were unable to have the same sense of analysis of this scene.
One of two things, either they are playing the game and are not immersed in the narrative and details like this go unnoticed, or, point 2: They are biased.
If the answer is point 2. Then,
If you are a shipper who denies and disfavors the Cloud and Aerith narrative line... I have bad news for you who celebrate misinformation.
If a communication vehicle acts biased once, there is nothing stopping it from having acted like this before, nor the next time. Today these people may be celebrating misinformation,
because they benefit them. But tomorrow, misinformation could affect them too. One should never celebrate misinformation.
The law of return takes time but does not fail.
Claudia meant Aerith. You can open FFVII Ultimania Omega page 077 and see the answer. Official book literally says: "Is the type of woman Cloud's mother recommends similar to Aerith?" It always was her.
Please keep absolutely cooking my dude this was a beautiful video showing all the relevant information and giving a well thought out interpretation of Claudia's words.
You came to your conclusion without being smug and you weren't mean about Tifa. You even showed her scenes to back up your thoughts and did so without being awful to her.
As someone who has always thought it was super obvious who the game wants you to believe Cloud loves, and who Claudia is describing, it's really vindicating seeing someone else putting my feelings into words on this particular matter. Especially when most of my friends are Cloti.
In Korea, you can literally call any woman older than you "sister (Noona)". So, for example, a man could say something like "Hey, Noona" to his wife or girlfriend, and that's totally normal. "Onee-san" is pretty much the same. During the dream date scene, male NPCs call Aerith "Onee-san" in the Japanese version. Does that mean they're her brothers or Cetras? No 😂
I just finished a K drama where the male lead calls his girlfriend (also his senior coworker) sunbae the whole time. I thought it was interesting, but that's because I'm not Korean so I only have a surface level understanding of "titles".
But it did remind me of the Cloti/onee-san brigade lol. It's almost as if there are other languages and cultures outside of the West, who knew 😂
@@sansakitty9650 Whaaaaa?! No, that can't be dude. What are you smoking? Nothing exists outside of 'MERICAAA!!! (F*CK YEAH!). It's the oldest country after a- ... Wait, there are countries older than 250 years? Including my own?!
Ha, good one. Next you're gonna tell me the earth is round.
Thank you for this insight! 🔥🔥🔥
I love Aerith so much she is so selfless and always thinking about everyone else and encouraging them. A true leader and heroine for sure. Cloud and Aerith really do compliment each other the best, the way she provides reassurance by taking the lead is very inspiring because a person like Cloud needs that push. She reminds me of Claudia a lot and I know the two of them would've gotten along great
Tifa and Cloud are similar in the sense that they're both reserved and self-conscious, both of them need someone to reassure them and provide direction instead. Tifa has her own expectations given their promise and I think that has always added pressure on Cloud to be someone he is not for the sake of approval. Aerith is really perceptive and can see past the facade, that is why she is always teasing Cloud and playfully pulling him along so he can open up and just experience the life around him for once by simply being himself
I noticed throughout my gameplay of ff7 remake and rebirth that Tifa is hella negative all the damn time. All she does is grief, grief, grief. Like she wouldn’t shut up about the bar for the tenth time. She also only seems to care about herself. Aerith is always positive, and she wants to save the whole damn WORLD. Aerith also brings Cloud out of his shell. Clotis are on some hella big copium.
Claudia: You should be with an older sister type.
Clotis: It's about Tifa.
Devs: It's about Aerith.
Also Clotis: Just because Claudia wants that for Cloud doesn't mean he does. It's also incest.
The Devs: Tifa felt a maternal bond to Cloud. It was a similar feeling a mother would have.
Also Clotis:
😂😂😂😂😂
I’m dying!
"Cloud is mentally 16! So that means Tifa is older!"
@daphreyes8859 And even though that rationalization gives me the ick it STILL doesn't disqualify Aerith
@@daphreyes8859 "But so is Aerith... we'll call it a tie, just once."
Great video as always! Can't believe people are actually arguing about this, it's like the most obvious thing.
Yeah on Twitter you'll see this discussion come up at least once a week or every other week...And yes there are many posts and "agruments" that it's Tifa. It's wild lol...
@@mlwjrpg Always when I hear something about Twitter, I'm glad I don't have it🤣 But honestly I just stick to the Clerith spaces, to spare myself the nerves.
Who knew we would have a massive shipping war with something that is clearly explained in the game, but people are delusional and stubborn😭💀
Amazing video as always!! I love them🩷
Yeah I had no idea it was a issue until I hopped on board Twitter early last year. You legit see this come up every other week LOL
Glad you love the vids! You rock!
@mlwjrpg I feel bad for the devs trying to make the players happy when there are people that only want cloud/Tifa or cloud/aerith to be the main story.
If people want this, go watch Hallmark movies for goodness sake!
(I'm not denying this at all, though, bc I've shipped clerith since OG & always will☺️)
I think you rock the most for bringing us these videos for the clerith fans & others to enjoy! :D
Because I think it’s obv they made it open ended and up to interruption so that players will ship who they want. It’s not that deep lol it’s just fun
Nice video analysis my man, been following your videos for a while now, this is the first time I comment on any of them. Coincidently I have been recently re-watching several streamers go through this particular chapter, specially the Claudia & cloud dream sequence, and boy... While I am with you, on the fact that the game is pretty self explanatory in addressing Cloud´s feelings in general with every character in the game. Like I said, been watching this scene many times lately and it click on me, there is an Arc to the Claudia´s dream sequence, and that starts in the rooftops walk, Cloud starts to know Aerith, we know he likes her (he finds her attractive, he "flirts" with her pretending not to remember her, and accepting the payment of the date), so what happens next? he spends the rest of the day by her side, doing the quests on sector 5, he gets to have a feel of her personality, that she might look sweet, innocent and maybe even frail, but not really, she is driven, strong headed, determent, noble, funny, sarcastic, sassy and mature. Then before he goes to sleep, he interacts with Elmira, Aerith MOTHER, regardless of the sour dynamic, he´s subcontinent latches on that, MOTHER, then he goes to sleep in a Cousy warm room, unlike the cold room Tifa got him at sector 7. So, then he goes and dreams with his own MOTHER, and of all the conversations he had with her, his subconscious latches to the time her mom address her wishes for the perfect girl for him. You know the saying... mother knows best. So, why Cloud subconscious pick that memory? Because Areith fits the bill, her personality fit the bill, check the marks her mom layout to him. But here comes the kicker. Cloud wakes up, and if you hit the bucket... this is not subtle, but I must confess I didn't see it for a long time, and to be honest until the Big sister dumb miss interpretation came along, then it make sense... Aerith come out of her room and scolds cloud, pushes him inside his room as a mature bossy woman would, as a mother or a big sister, that's the vibe the devs are addressing, that's the perfect example to me, that closes the Claudia Arc. You found her my boy. Any way sorry for the big text, keep it up my man.
I really appreciate that you’ve been watching the videos! I’m honored by your very first comment, don’t feel obligated to do so but you’ve got a lot of great input to share as you did here! Thanks!
You reminded me that I completely forgot about the dialogue from Aerith when you get caught sneaking out! You’re 1000% spot on and this is so important! It’s further evidence as you pointed out Aerith IS THIS DESCRIPTION!
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. Another beautiful moment was, when Aerith came to Cloud's rescue at Junon, helping him with his speech. 💖
Even if they don't end together in this retelling (something that I'll deeply mourn), Cloud and Aerith are soulmates, "star-crossed lovers", as Caith Sith said.
The point of their relationship, at least in OG timeline, is to be tragic. "Traumatized protagonist just found someone that complements him and continuously helps him to get out of his shell and cherish his relationships? Well, let us take her away from him!"
Oh Clerith, the ship that you are.
Yeah the Junon moment was gold! I actually thought of including right after I uploaded my video 🤣
Great example as you pointed out of Aerith stepping up and leading! Love all your insight here! Thanks for sharing! 🙏
Played Remake in 2020 without playing the OG, pretty clear who Cloud thought fitted the description, remember, he's the one who flashbacked to this scene.
100% obvious 🤣
smaller detail of cloud following aerith: when Cloud wears the dress for don c, he models how he walks and stands after Aerith.
👀
All intentional!
‘Come on Cloud, don’t be silly’ 🥹
😎
If there was really nothing to Cloud and Aerith, these people wouldn't spend so much time and energy on aggressive and desperate attempts to dispute it, by their own actions they're confirming Clerith is real. Sadly, you can't reason with people whose opinions aren't based on reason in the first place.
There are people that wake up and think “how can I diminish clerith?” 🤦♂️
@@mlwjrpg I wonder why they even engage with a game that distresses them to the point of delusion.
It's a defensive reaction. TBH, Clerith's were like it after the OG, as there really wasn't much for us to hold on to. But after the extended universe/Remakes, we have more to celebrate now and CloTis are probably feeling less sure of their positions. Death doesn't rule anything out anymore, Aerith and Cloud have great chemistry, there are some wonderful Clerith scenes and Aerith is even more important to the overall plot. They are simply insecure.
Sounds like ppl are too serious about fake ppl’s relationship in a video game, including alot of ya’ll. It’s just fun since it’s a game. Not that deep. I think it’s obv to me that both characters are important to Cloud. And each person will have their opinion on who is best for cloud. I think that’s all there is to it lol
@@84rinne_moo I agree. I think both are valid, there is no canon and every group has the right to exist. Some people can't handle that and have to destroy the other group completely, hence the shipping wars.
Thanks for my weekly Clerith hit! Spot on as always.
I've been spending a lot of time on CloTi channels, just trying to understand their viewpoint. Whilst I see Tifa as being valid, I cannot believe the lengths they go to, not just to talk up the Tifa relationship, but also to invalidate Clerith completely. I genuinely can't understand a) Why they do it and b) How they can ignore stuff like this.
I’ve got a few more CT vids I want to react to…they legit are all the same though. Fill head canon, no facts 🤦♂️
@mlwjrpg Dutchdread I always debate with. He's one of these that will cultivate this aura of objectivity and fact, but ultimately he's just as bad as the basement dwellers, not content until Clerith is completely buried! You don't have to debate him for long, before the usual tropes emerge.
Also just to relate Cloud's mother mentioning about a girl who tell Cloud being a silly goose. In Cloud's resolution scene with Aerith in FF7 Remake, when Cloud say "So what. you wanna stay?" to Aerith and she responded "C'mon Cloud, Don't be silly". This also completed Cloud's mom of what the perfect girl for Cloud is.
There should'nt be any argument there. Aerith is the ONLY perfect woman for Cloud.
Mhmmm! This is so true! The evidence is overwhelming heh
I’ve always respected Cloti! But Clerith for me has my heart. Anyways, love your vids and early!!
You were super early! Ha ha! So glad to have you here and loving the vids!
@@mlwjrpgYou replied!! Keep it up!!
@LoraFuntime Well of course! I do my best to reply, the past month I've been inconsistent at replying because the holidays, travel, etc...haha it's been tough juggling everything.
@@mlwjrpgHave a good one!
Awesome video!
Wow JP version said girl who could, "Pull you along with her." Yes! How many times did we see Aerith pull Cloud's hand/arm? So many. She led him running on the rooftops too. 💕
She’s basically doing this the entire games 😎
So sorry to sound like a aerith fan boy but in the words of clouds mom find a good girl to keep you on the Straight and narrow
Pretty much sounds like aerith
Don't get me wrong I love tifa as well but she wants cloud to Constantly make her feel better 24/7 while poor clouds got his own Personal Baggage to deal with
At least aerith is Patient and understanding
Tifa is legit the exact opposite of Claudia's description.
14:28 unrelated to the point of the video, but this is one of the lines specifically that makes me wonder why people believe things will be the same. They literally spelled it out that things will change
100% this! People need to go and play through Remake again and refresh.
Mlw great talking points. Very straightforward, keep em coming..!
For sure! 😉
IMO Claudia's description is so blatantly favoring Aerith that from what I've seen most Cloti fans don't try to fight or warp the description into benefiting them so much as they just... pretend the scene doesn't exist. It's something they can't possibly dispute so they just deny and ignore it in favor of their girl getting an optional kiss and being alive. I suppose an argument could be made that Claudia isn't the true expert on what's best for Cloud or what he truly wants, but that adds unnecessary confusion to the story and I think it's really significant that the scene is given to you RIGHT AFTER meeting Aerith, clearly leading players to make that association to his 'ideal' type (and also probably indicating Cloud himself has recognized that on some level).
Yeah. Generally most Cloti fans don't bother with that scene. The discussions only start up because of an overseas interview where the answers are already translated and there's no raw Japanese text as reference. For many of us, we know what they mean. But some Cloti fans try to be disingenuous and use it to invalidate Clerith.
@@dojiz7242 Yes, I've seen the discourse lately about how Aerith is a 'sibling' to Cloud. Cloti fans are taking it at face-value to invalidate the opposition whereas if you just understand the context of Japanese culture it was actually (another) huge win for Clerith since the dev was ONCE AGAIN confirming Aerith is the type of girl Cloud's mother thinks is perfect for him. She's an 'onee-san' type who leads/pulls him along. Literally EXACTLY what Claudia describes is how the dev described her.
To be fair to a fraction of fans, they lack the understanding/context of Japanese culture and took the 'sisterly' comment seriously (though I think the journalist definitely stirred up trouble and should have PROVIDED the context/nuance), but on the other hand I think a lot of people are just desperately ignoring the true meaning.
They try so hard to invalidate Clerith and deny it as even POSSIBLY romantic, much less the more favored/intended route. I just don't understand that. Ship and prefer whichever girl you want, but the games and supplementary materials shove Clerith in your face so hard it should be undeniable that there is/was love there. Cloud MIGHT find happiness with Tifa in a future where Aerith is gone, but he clearly would/should find love with Aerith if she IS alive. I think that's the point they know and fear deep down, which is why they're so insistent that the story/ending won't change and Aerith stays dead. Because they know if she's alive, they've lost.
"...and tell you when you're being a silly goose."
If that alone doesn't scream Aerith, idk what will. That girl is constantly telling him he's being really weird. Especially after that hand massage scene.
And she straight up tells him exactly that in the resolution scene in Remake.
"So what? You wanna stay?"
"Come on, Cloud. Don't be silly."
It has always been Aerith for Cloud. 💓💓
It’s Aerith.
Many of their “romantic” moments are obligatory (canon).
The kiss between Cloud and Tifa was a choice by players (not canon).
And Cloud’s mental state in Advent Children pretty much says it all.
Aerith broke through his shell
This is it 100% it in a nutshell!
10:49 I can't shake the feeling of falseness on Tifa's part, her "shyness" sometimes defies logic, looks out of place and feels like what I would call "begging for initiative and attention" on my part. It's not everywhere, but the date in GS, Loveless, and the way she takes a long time in the gondola to respond to Cloud, who extended his hand to her, makes me perplexed and disgusted with the character. In theory, I can speculate that Tifa is indeed influenced by the "perfect wife" stereotype that was imposed by Nibelheim, but again, that's not something that can be attributed to leadership qualities.
11:31 I find this moment amusing, she's here in a "Boss againsst" kind of way😂, but I feel a bit sorry that in the open world of Rebirth Aerith doesn't feel the kind of confidence that was felt when we walked with her through the slums of Midgar, there she really was a "living person", who knows the city, knows the rules, knows the people - it's an incredible detail and demonstration that Aerith isn't your typical spiritualized and mystical heroine, she's just a "city girl" with her own connections and secrets.
I too feel the same way about Tifa and I think it's due to her discrepancies. She wants to be protected by someone and be a follower when in reality she can be a protector and possibly a leader just fine. When it comes to Cloud, she expects a leadership role from him when in reality he's just as shy and awkward that he doesn't know how to take the initiative which leaves a lot of their situations feeling just as weird. And when he does Tifa still hesitates as shown when he extends his hand to her. It's an interesting way to show how she meets him halfway.
One thing that I love about this flashback scene is that they can never use their "Cloud is Zack" fallacy for it. Just like how they did when Cloud shed a tear when Aerith is leading the way to Sector 7 and had some flashbacks from the Sleeping Forest. Because obviously, Zack's mother isn't Claudia lol.
I think you're underestimating them.😅
@ladyvergerin6791 whattt???!!! No wayT^T.
Actually there’s a guy on Twitter that did 😂😂😂
I'm not a shipper, but i don't think aerith is an older sister to cloud, she have deep feelings for him, and tifa needs him not a spouse, to be a hero, a loyalty to her, and close friend, i love both girls they have amazing personality, but i think Aerith she's meant for cloud and i claudia was right about him to get a girlfriend and Aerith's on my top 5 of final fantasy vii characters
Yeah "older sister" doesn't literally mean biological sister LOL
It's absolutely hilarious how anyone would even conclude this...
@@mlwjrpg and there's no way that Aerith & Zacki won't coming back to the third and last part of the ffvii remake trilogy, they have to, 'cause without them it's not the "final fantasy vii remake trilogy"
I know it wasn’t mentioned in the video but even without the so obvious description of Aerith and intentional placement of the scene, when Cait Sith reads Cloud and Aerith’s fortune he begins by saying “Poor Tifa” followed by how they’re a perfect match for each other, anyone who doesn’t acknowledge the statement IN GAME that they’re the perfect pair is just choosing to be selectively blind 😅
Of course it’s Aerith.
An older sister type/older than Cloud?✅
Leading Cloud around without hesitation?✅
A Flowers Blooming in the Church track played during this scene?✅
Cloud having this flashback when he stays at Aerith’s house?✅
Had Tifa been the one, Claudia would’ve said Tifa’s name in the dialogues since she knew Tifa and the Lockharts being her neighbors.
Super late to the commenting game, so it's possible someone already said this, but for me it's most obvious that Claudia isn't talking about Tifa due to the fact that, if she were, she would have just said, "you should be with someone like, Tifa." Claudia knew Tifa. If she wanted to Cloud to be with her, or at least someone like her, she would have told him that.
I love Tifa, by the way. I didn't in OG but do now in the remake trilogy. She's a great character with a crucial and interesting arc of her own. But I ultimately agree with Claudia, Tifa and Cloud are not right for each other as anything other than friends (which is exactly what Cloud needs at this point in the game).
I wouldn't call Tifa more mature, even if we're talking about psychological maturity. Tifa can't deal with her own dilemma regarding Avalanche's actions, Tifa is unable to express feelings and emotions, Tifa needs the approval of the people around her, Tifa is unable to lead anyone, she can only follow someone. About how she lives in her fantasies according to the OG plot and how it harms Cloud, and not only him, or how she tries to suppress him so that everyone likes him too, you can write a separate essay. I was about 12 years old when I first played OG, I wasn't as observant and well-read as I am now, I didn't have the ability to analyze deeply, I didn't have the internet to be influenced by other people's opinions, I had no reason to ignore the plot segment about Aerith and Cloud, the music and the sequence of events to make myself question which character Claudia's words were referring to.
It's probably too easy to see the most obvious plot points.🤦
Speaking 🔥🔥🔥
Everything here is spot on and how I see Tifa as well. I do believe she has shown maturity at specific moments, but it’s inconsistent. She’s always taking steps forwards and fumbling backwards at the same time.
Tifa is well adjusted to social life, she gets along with people, she doesn't hide from them, life has really forced her to adapt in her new surroundings and yes, it is certainly the ability to adapt that can be attributed to a display of maturity)
Personally, beside the usual reasons, I think people try to deny this scene being pro-Clerith because they're well aware of both narrative reasons.
As well as the importance of parental approval. If Claudia's alive, she would approve of Aerith as a possible girlfriend for Cloud.
It’s such a shame that people can’t set aside personal preferences and take in what the story is telling them.
There is no question about this. Aerith...it's not a realistic outcome since she was meant to die, but during their journey together they fell in love, and that is why we keep shipping them. Somewhere out there, in one of those scenarios there really was a merc named Cloud, who carried on his best friend's will, inheriting his courage, aspirations and legacy. Zack was living proof that SOLDIER aren't just lap dogs, but free spirits, seeking their own way...and Cloud completed that, by resisting and defying destiny, creating a new reality from his own dialogue with the lifestream. "Follow them, the yellow flowers" - she told him. Somewhere, in some place..he did, and at the top of those old Cetra ruins they found their promised land.
Defying destiny! He for sure pulled that off at the end of Rebirth!
Unrelated but love your music choice for the vod! FF16's tracks are so good.
Ha ha appreciate it!
LET HIM COOK
Thank you for yet another banger video, my friend! This scene is such an important clue for understanding the true nature of their bond. Especially since this memory was prompted subconsciously by the real Cloud. He gets to spend a day with this girl, goes to sleep and his real self basically thinks "hey this girl is like my mom's description of my perfect girl". People like to yada yada this with stupid shit like "since when is your parents choice of partner the one you actually go for?" Like you said, it's just basic media literacy. The devs put that scene right there and made the context around it what it is for a reason. Same thing with Cait Sith's predictions. Yes, in universe they are just dumb luck. That's how fortune telling works. But they are meant to foreshadow events. "What you seek will be yours but you will lose something dear" is obviously about Aerith's death. The prediction itself isn't magic, just dumb luck. But it's put there for a reason. For players to connect the dots. They even went so far as to change them for Rebirth so that ALL 3 come true in some way. Also as a Clerith i love that they rephrased the one about Aerith's death as "you will forever lose what you cherish most". It's no longer just "something dear" but straight up "what you cherish most".
I would assume that Rebirth's translation of the fortune is actually more accurate to the original Japanese intention. It's been a while so I don't remember the exact translation, but if you watch Tim Rogers' series (Let's Mosey: A Slow Translation of FF7) comparing the Japanese and English translations of the games, the original line was something more like "you'll lose the MOST PRECIOUS [person/object/etc]". So yeah, the original English translation going with "you'll lose something dear" actually waters it down and underplays how much losing Aerith will hurt Cloud.
In general the English version of the original FF7 lost a bunch of nuance and subtlety that favored Aerith, but I don't blame that on shipping bias. I blame it on the fact that it had a single translator working at an unreasonable, feverish pace. Remake and Rebirth, on the other hand, might have genuinely had some shipper bias in the way certain things got translated...
@AlyssaJ14 OOH so it wasn't a rephrasing, they straight up FIXED it! That makes it even better! Thanks for pointing that out😁
“since when is your parents choice of partner what you actually go for?” This always sends me because they forget this isn’t real life, nor or these characters. The projection is wild 😂
Thank you for all of this, amazing insight 🙂
So this "feels like an older brother/sister to..." just isn't meant in the same friend zone death sentence way in Japan as in a lot of other places, I think that's where a lot of the confusion comes in^^ (a lot of willfull ignorance here though, of course). Honestly, I wish people didn't have to pretend that scene isn't what it is (along with a lot of other bad faith takes lately), it doesn't mean you can't ship whoever you want🤷♀️
Oh yeah I fully agree, there’s a disconnect with many players and JP culture/media.
As always, perfect video! 👌Aerith is a natural leader. Some FF7-"fans" tend to downplay that unfortunately.
I hate that! It’s one of her characteristics that I love most about her.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing, as since OG I’ve always felt like Cloud and Aerith belong together. But GOD, shippers on either side are weird.
Ideally yes, Cloud would be with Aerith. But considering Rebirth has solidified the fact that she’s destined to be fish food at the bottom of a lake… there’s literally only one choice.
Not to mention, Rebirth really pushed Cloud/Tifa in a way it never had been before. And Aerith felt more like a friend. It was really weird, tbh. It’s kinda clear what the direction of the devs intent are going.
As for Claudia, idk, I’m not so sure if I’d like my parent deciding who would be the best type for me. Cloud obviously had that memory come to mind because it described Aerith. But that’s what Claudia wants for him, not necessarily what he wants.
Honestly, considering how close Tifa/Aerith are in the remake, Cloud/Aerith/Tifa would have been a good throuple, and I stand by that.
Well, for me chapters 13 and 14 of Rebirth 'solidified' the opposite things than what you stated, but everyone is entitled to their interpretation
I think you made a mistake by not making emphasis on Hamaguchi's words because, regardless of how much do people try to twist and manipulate what he said, he literally described Aerith specifically using the very same words as Cloud's mother. Words that clotis spent entire decades claiming that were describing Tifa, until now, conveniently.
Great video anyways, and really nice observation about the LOVELESS play. Needless to say that this is anyways also weaponized by clotis claiming that Cloud takes the initiative with Tifa's but Aerith has to spin alone cause Cloud doesn't really want to play along with her. Their insecurities are showing 😂
It's amazing how often the issue of physical touch comes up in Cloti vs Clerith discourse. So often I've seen Cloti fans insisting that Cloud is more assertive and willing to touch Tifa while it's always Aerith initiating things with Cloud, which... 1, isn't entirely true, and 2, definitely isn't the point in Tifa's favor that they think it is. There ARE several times where Cloud does choose to touch Aerith first (like for instance when he briefly takes her hand to lead her forward into the spotlight at the end of the play & song, REGARDLESS of who your date was), but when it comes to Tifa he's frequently taking the lead basically because he HAS to. Tifa herself is shy and awkward when it comes to romance, and WANTS him to take the lead so he's pressured into doing it, even if he is ALSO actually shy and awkward at heart and would prefer to follow rather than lead in these circumstances.
I hear so much about how Cloud must be so into Tifa because he "can't help" but touch her and yank her to him in the play and (optionally) kiss her during the date while his physical moments with Aerith are so much more "tame" by comparison and clearly he must be annoyed and enduring her always touching him and pulling him around. And it's like... are we thinking of the same character? The same guy who had NO problem expressing his disinterest in Avalanche's cause at the beginning of Remake, and showing how annoyed he was at Tifa wanting his help and not having his money? The same guy who bluntly told accused Jessie of being desperate when she was all over him?
If Cloud had an issue with how much Aerith grabbed him and dragged him along, he would show it. He would say something. But he doesn't and more to the point, he keeps letting her do it. Heck, in the dream date he was HAPPY to be led around by her and even pointed out the photo op to keep the date going (AND was clearly upset when they weren't chosen, which he shouldn't care about if he truly wasn't interested in her). Meanwhile with Tifa, I think her promise with him shows what she really wants - a classic knight in shining armor, a true leading man who she could play the damsel in distress to. Someone charming, and who would take the lead in romantic matters, more like, well, Zack (or Balthier from FF12). That's NOT who Cloud is or how he would truly interact with someone, but without meaning to she subconsciously pushes her expectations on him (and maybe even at times makes herself more helpless/pathetic to really play into that, when we KNOW she's actually very capable in her own right) and he tries to play that role for her. Romantic fantasies are all well and good, but her particular dream tries to box both Cloud AND herself into roles they don't really fit into.
For me the scene with Cloud's mom just reinforces and clearly spells out the framing that is all over the rest of the story. We can SEE based on how Cloud interacts with both girls that he's typically happy to go along with whatever Aerith wants (he was a bit standoffish at first, like he is with EVERYONE initially, but he thawed out with her FAST), while his interactions with Tifa are often more stilted and awkward. Unnatural, since one or both of them is trying to conform to Tifa's fantasied romantic ideal. Claudia's description of the perfect type of girl for Cloud matching Aerith so well is just the devs trying to make it blatantly obvious to the player. Yet still some fans refuse to acknowledge it.
@@AlyssaJ14 I've never understood the whole: "Cloud and Tifa touch all the time and Cloud and Aerith never touch." I heard that one in Remake a lot where most of Cloud and Tifa's "touching" scenes are action scenes. I couldn't tell you a single scene where they touch in a non-action scene apart from the optional resolution (but that might be a me thing because I don't usually rewatch Tifa scenes much hah).
Then you have Aerith in Remake. Cloud takes her hand on the sidequest where they save the two kids (which is semi-action I guess), then Aerith takes his hand when he's seeing Sephiroth and Cloud literally never removes her hand. Then he again takes Aerith's hand in Corneo's mansion to help her up, which he absolutely didn't have to. Then we have the highfive. It's small things, but Cloud literally knows her for a day in these scenes and they feel way more personal to me than him jumping out of a train together with Tifa.
In Rebirth, the argument (especially paired with "Cloud only acts with Tifa") becomes even more absurd. Like... when does Cloud ever touch Tifa in a romantic way if you remove the optional scenes? There's nothing except for the almost-kiss, which is clearly Tifa's doing and not Cloud's. Pretty sure the only time he touches her is in Nibelheim when he puts a hand on her shoulder to comfort her when she's about to have a panic attack. And even if you add the optional two GS dates, it's still not "Cloud acting." I've seen people be all: "Oh, with Tifa Cloud immediately accepts the GS date, but with Aerith, he doesn't really want to." When Tifa is talking about friends hanging out and then asking him if he's up for "a little exploring." Whereas Aerith is all, "Hey, let's go sightseeing, the skywheel is running a special for couples." It's then also Tifa who takes his hand there when they reach the Skywheel and Cloud looks confused at best.
Literally the only time Cloud "acts" is in the optional kissing scene. And even there, it's Tifa who starts the whole thing with her: "Or am I getting ahead of myself again?" Cloud's mocap actor compared that scene to the hug in Remake, where he felt that Cloud thought he had to hug Tifa back or he "wasn't a man."
Then you have Cloud and Aerith in Rebirth. Where he takes her hand to put her behind him to protect her from the Turks, where he protects her from the sandstorm, where he takes pictures of her (which is not touching, but still a pretty romantic action done by Cloud absultely unprompted). On the GS date, no one forces Cloud to take Aerith's hand either, he does that all on his own. And then there is the entire dream date where he smiles at holding hands with her, participates in the couple shooting which was his idea and then hugs her back in the church.
Aerith and Cloud have soooo many more romantic scenes and it's crazy how people can seriously look at Rebirth and go: "Yeah, only Tifa and Cloud have romantic scenes."
Oh I want to go into that but in a separate video. It’s truly funny what they’ve done with that interview 🥴
Thanks for watching and the input! You’re awesome!
thats cute and all, but Cloud has his own Opinion, just because his mother says Aerith fits better, he could choose a diffrent girl :P
I like both Cloti and Clerith but yeah this proves that Clerith is also the canon ship as well and cloud loves Aerith as much as Tifa. So these debate wars on Twitter are pointless.
This clearly describes Madame M
This has been obvious since day one.
I can't believe how long this has gone on and is still argued 🙄
I hope the devs squash this is part 3 and have real confessions of love not this read between the lines junk.
Great video
Yeah this is very much agrued every other week on Twitter alone lol
@mlwjrpg Yes it's just awful tbh. Gotta keep the truth up.
Keep up the hard work!
Maybe the devs want it to be open to each person’s interpretation? It’s more fun that way perhaps. It’s up to them how they wanna present the story and I think neither ppl who think Aerith or Tifa is Cloud’s match doesn’t make it canon. It’s just fun to talk about tho. I don’t think it’s that deep. Damn didn’t know ppl were getting this worked up over this lol
@@84rinne_moo You might be right but this discourse in the entire FF7 community is really bad like people have gotten crazy about this specific topic. I think SE wants to end that tbh I hope they do.
@@SuperQueenV. idk I would think they would like that it drives engagement with the game perhaps. Honestly didn’t know about this deep “discourse” (XD) til today and prob wont even think about it in a few hours time. Like I said it’s not that deep.
10:54 Slightly off topic, but while we're here, does anyone have an explanation for the bump in Tifa's thigh area at this point? Aerith doesn't have it, the pose reads fine, but with Tifa I can't understand the silhouette, it can't be a knee, looks weird. I also saw that Yuffie has her legs sticking out from under the texture of the dress at this point, it's hackwork on her face, but I can explain it by the fact that the dress is too big for her, but Tifa is not so much taller than Aerith (although the dress is definitely too small for her) that the silhouette is so "broken".
Hmmm that’s a very good catch! I never noticed that until reading your comment.
This detail has been bugging me for a long time, it's too annoying, just like Tifa's feet sticking out from under her dress at the moment when the rating for the performance is awarded😅
mlw are people just getting really bored why are the ship debates getting so extremely nasty 😔
Marlene
Neither Aerith or Tifa is the best fit for Cloud. It was Jessie Raspberry.
Polyamorous relationship, perhaps?
AOTA
Do ppl really care this much? Lol I find this hilarious tbh just like who you like it’s not that deep
I guess Aerith died for nothing then :(
Tifa shoudla died imo
I always assumed Claudia was describing a woman like Aerith but the there is one part of her description that points towards Tifa and I noticed you avoided discussing this aspect and it's "a good girl". Tifa can definitely be described as "a good girl" but Aerith certainly cannot, Aerith is mischievous and definitely the naughty one out of the two.
Being playful is all it takes to not be a "good girl" to you? Yikes. Yeah, Aerith likes to tease and flirt, but she's still one of, if not THE kindest character(s) in the game. She is BELOVED in Sector 5 where everyone knows and relies upon her, she goes out of her way to talk to and help basically everyone she can. In what world does she not qualify as a "good girl"?
Respectfully “a good girl” is 1000% subjective here…there is no cookie cutter definition for it. That can literally mean anything and it’s based on the person defining it.
No, she doesn’t mention/hint Tifa at all. Tifa wasn’t good to her son; she didn’t even play with him. There’s no reason for Claudia to describe Tifa when talking about her preference for a daughter-in-law. Saying ‘good girl’ is a general statement that could apply to anyone, but ‘older, more mature’ is a specific preference Claudia suggested. While she didn’t know Aerith personally, the devs clearly included this line and scene for a reason.
The mental gymnastics you’re trying to do here is wild
Think again: If Claudia had wanted to describe Tifa, she would’ve said her name Tifa in the dialogue. Yet she didn’t. Both in the OG and Remake/Rebirth.
Keep deniying no one has a power over devs that is over keeping this shipping war it's a nonsense anymore
For years no one mentioned Claudia but now searching for an exit because Hamaguchi cleared it I mean have you guys watched the cutscenes or you just watched the Aerith cutscenes
Kids don't understand head canon it's so painful these remake series has more romantic scenes with Tifa go watch amd listen to it
So in my opinion the kiss scene should've been with Aerith as they gave her exclusive Song Default Canon Rosa to say a proper goodbye but why they chosed Tifa?
Why from kalm to junon and finally in GS they kissed why Tifa because devs chosed her
Keep arguing they said Aerith is a sisterly character who pulls pushes Cloud to show him his destiny have you blinded people listened the conversation about Zack
In GS date With Aerith or Tifa Cloud Asks if Tifa talked to Aerith we get a flashback scene and seeing Tifa tells her then it's cut many of you say
Song has written for Cloud but what if she wrote the song for Zack what if we don't know what they talked about we will learn in part 3
But I know you toxic kids will keep deniying but it's over the girlfriend has been chosen the kiss has been made to show growth devs saying this not me
I only say things what developers saying and what I see in the game many of you neither played the original game or Crisis core
But head canons well keep believing it
Man, whoever invented punctuation knew what he was doing.
"Song has written for Cloud but what if she wrote the song for Zack" PRETTY SURE SHE MEANS IT MORE TOWARDS AVALANCHE THEN ZACK LMAO. This argument is so dumb....
You're just a Tifa fanboy c'mon, your pfp makes it extremely obvious not to mention If we click on it we can see your previous comments and they're all about Tifa
I always wonder what scenes people think about when they say "Cloud and Tifa have more romantic scenes." Because I literally don't see them. Can't think of even one romantic scene between them that is not optional. At least none where it was Cloud initiating.
Also, I'm glad Aerith and Cloud didn't kiss in that gondola. I prefer Cloud to sort out his identity issues first, but I guess Tifa fans don't mind that he acts like Zack around her lol.
Claudia's words have also definitely been talked about before Hamaguchi's interview and people have constantly tried to make it about Tifa when it's clearly about Aerith. And even without Claudia's words, it still wouldn't kill the ship because "sister" in Japan has not the same meaning as "sister" in the West. You can use it for literal strangers and it does not have to imply actual family-bond-relations are all.
But, you know, considering Hamaguchi not only describes Aerith as the sister type (like Claudia) but also mentions Aerith leading Cloud around (like Claudia), it becomes pretty obvious that this Hamaguchi comment is pro-Clerith lol.
@fiprosha I don't know about the people that they thought the description of Claudia they thought it's Tifa I personally think too it's for Aerith but there's one real think in the real world not everyone going for the girl that their mother wants to be with that kind
I don't have problem people to have their own favorite ships whatsoever you can't change the reality of what happened in rebirth what the developers said they make up the story and they making it officially
For the part about romantic scenes between them Cloud and Tifa that depends how you watched those scenes or listened to the conversation
No one has the power to change the fact no one only developers can
Hamaguchi didn't said only Aerith is Sisterly he clarified Aerith is sisterly to Cloud not romantically what you searching more in Japanese terms sisterly can mean differently but he said not romantically he also said there's liking and liking whatever bro
I'm waiting for part 3 and following the developers what they say I don't listen to this shipping things I get annoyed only kids don't want to accept the truth even after developers said it because kids didn't get their own wish
Like I said no one has the power to change this what they showed us and said have your own shipping but Learn to accept what the developers said