The real issue is matchmaking that puts together vastly different skill level players, bc ppl gonna be where they are in their own learning curve journey no matter adjustments to the complexity ceiling.
Exactly, every game has this figured out, even rocket league which epic operates. Why is it that 7 years later low skilled players still get put into high skill lobbies?
@@juiceskyrous Because building and editing are such rogue skills to measure that the stats used from anyone's singular game or all-time stats to put their skill level anywhere can't accurately predict someone's skill
@@AegonTargeryen I can't tell what exact method they should use, but other games have unique mechanics and still have successful matchmaking. Another option would be to just do away with skilled matchmaking entirely, the Squads playlist does this and it works well.
@ I mean you aren’t wrong about removing sbmm being a good idea but there isn’t any stat that can accurate-ishly predict someone’s skill with everything that building and editing provides to a player. And could you give me some examples of other games with unique mechanics because I mostly just play Fortnite so I don’t know much about other games.
PeI’m pls are already complaining about the queue times, adding sbmm to pubs would inevitably kill the game. Whether through bots or outrageous queue times.
At a certain point we need to realize there is no way to close the gap between good players and the bad. It’s literally just how a competitive game works and there is little you can really do about it
i do think there is things that could be done, but fortnite is too iconic and too many people are using to the way it is for any good changes to be done (imo)
The bad players could just improve.. I mean when I first started on mobile I didn’t even build n I barely won any games then I switched to console n got better.
@@MaeFlower-m1zthat’s the problem, when u gotta put in that time and effort into get good, most people simply don’t want to. Plenty of games just take playing it here and there to be decent at it, Fortnite just isn’t one of those games
true but a decent tutorial made by epic could easily fix this. like if everyone watched a single billy biceps video they'd realize it isn't even that hard to understand. you can only place 4 pieces in a square grid dude lol
I think the real issue is how hard it is to learn, all the youtube vids don't know what a "beginner" is and the that not everyone has an absurd amount of time to spent practicing.
@@pigguviews9624 If you play the game consistently even for like 2 hours a week, you'll get better. That's how it was (sometimes even less) for me in college.
As a zero build player myself, I will admit I’m terrible at building, but the reason I don’t play build mode is because I feel like zero build just feels more calm
@@OsamaBahhursame😂 They should do like a “slow build mode” where you can build but there’s like a 3 second delay every 3 or 4 builds so you can add cover to protect yourself but you can’t all of this bullshit
@@yatokun5704you know what’s massive: the unfortunate case of ‘the disappearance of yatokun5704’s dad’ the police have been looking for him for 10 years the last thing yatokun5704 was told is that his father would “Be back he’s just getting milk” Very sad and massive
11:35 You are forgetting ONE major thing. The Gap remains the same, yes, HOWEVER, the PERCENTAGE/RATIO of said gap decreases. To illustrate this, let us assume that everyone's building 'skill' can be measured as one 'rank'. So say the FNCS champ is level 100, while the no builds noob is 12, and someone with their builds unbinded is 0. Let us say a new feature made it easier by 500 levels, so everyone's level went up by 500 (except for the unbinded dude, cause he can't use the feature). This would make the noob level 512 while the champ is level 600. The Gap is the same, 88 levels, but 88 levels when the max is 100 is WAAAAAAY more of a gap than 88 levels when the max is 600. A GREAT example would be health. IIRC there were some LTMs that changed your health. 88 health did not matter AS much to Doom's Chosen than it matters to someone playing OG (where shields are RARE af).
The solution to literally ALL of these issues is something Epic seems to ignore: FIX SKILL BASED MATCHMAKING! This means that good players always will be in tournament-level lobbies (yes, even in public/casual matches) and thus they will always complain about how difficult their lobbies are. The leaderboards in FortniteTracker will no longer have people with insane win percentages and stratospheric k/d ratios. The crown farming in pubs will end. Pubstomping will end. Fixing SBMM would keep below average (bad) players away from these fiends. Epic should use ALL AVAILABLE stats like Accuracy, Materials Used, and Edits Per Minute to place the good players into their own, high tier lobbies, and they would never, ever run into new or bad players. It would let new players slowly build their skills over time, without getting pubstomped endlessly.
Low-key want to get into building but feel discouraged every time since while I'm struggling to consistently ramp, these niggas are out here building sky scrapers and making edits before I can even comprehend it. While for some people this is the optimal way to learn, I'd rather be at my skill level and build my skills that way 😭
@@patrickstar8132This has been the case for YEARS you just have to play to learn not to win. Use zone wars and respawn modes for practice. I got good on the Switch on crossplay aka nightmare difficulty in a few weeks Fortnite + builds == fighting game with guns
Isolating the dedicated competitive playerbase by making their lobbies so difficult that they may consider quitting, is not a profitable strategy. You forget that not only does epic have to cater to the casual player base, they must cater to the competitive player base as well.
1:28 that’s actually so true, sometimes I go to play 1v1 and I fight demons and very good players(good fighting mechanics and fast editing) but they seem not to play any tournaments
I love fortnite, been playing since chapter 2. So I had to learn how to build and survive. But now I’m more a zero build player, and every season I end up playing it more because I feel that every person I run into can full box me. I just wanna have fun man
The only issue I have with building is I have very high and unstable ping, but I still love it. Building when you aren’t lagging feels so well done and is actually quite easy to learn and repeat, since it is just patterns and lists on inputs to do anything.
If it's not a server issue then it's your location in reference to the server and your internet stability. Not much Epic Games could do to change that.
One point that I think didn't get mentioned in the video at all is that, as I'd say, every 'good' builds player has muscle memory for selecting tiles. Especially in my case, I’m not a pro by any means, but I’ve developed muscle memory, and I just don’t want to lose all of that just to switch to simple edit, no matter if they make it better or not.
I did not know about turbo building till I watched this video. Before I watched this video my builds were trash and delayed. After I watched a little bit I found out about turbo building, now my builds feel way better. Thanks!
7:15 The only way IMO that getting rid of Turbo building would work is if Epic pulled a time machine and made it so that it was NEVER implemented. That would make it so that the IDEA of modern build spam would never be there. Sure, the top pro players in FNCS finals would use butterfly clickers and macros and all, but majority of the playerbase won't
@@birdi2772 Yea i do think that. Though IMO it could have also went a different way, with building taking a backseat and the 'meta' being more focused around positioning and aim.
Why are so many people like this… the problem is not the skill ceiling. The problem is the skill GAP. The game is fun because of how complicated building rudiments are and how you can do a bunch of things super fast. As another reply said, the competitive scene is encouraged by how mechanically intense and skill based the fighting gameplay is. As long as players of a certain skill level can actually get matched with people of similar skill, or at least make building and fighting tutorials and drill maps more accessible in-game
@@birdi2772we'd probably be around like chapter 3 building speed without turbo build. I still think the skill gap would be around the same though. It ultimately comes down to who can spam builds faster without turbo build
I think the ping disadvantage in taking/holding walls can be fixed by having the server track how long a player has been holding their place button so that the server can place a wall for whoever has been holding it longer instead of just granting it to whoever’s place packet first reaches the server
As a mobile player who has always played zero build because of the low ping,FPS,screen size and just weird controls on mobile I have always wanted to build and edit fast which as never possible on mobile which has allowed me to become an extremely good zero build player but now with simple edit I can finally build and get the joy of a build fight
My point exactly. These people who may not be as mechanically skillful, can now make those complex edits and piece control plays at the press of a button. Making what was once a "bad" player, better than average.
We have a similar problem with fighting games, but it usually pertains to certain characters and not mechanics, and I think a good example to give would be Zangief or any character from his archetype. Zangief is usually not regarded as a top tier or really anywhere close in that matter, but characters in his archetype being grapplers are not normally hard to play at a surface level causing them to be really good scrub killers. Bad players have trouble beating them because one move could take 40% of their life bar when for them it take 5 moves to do the same damage, but for good players not only will they know how to play around that move, one 40% combo won't be hard for them. If you nerf the grappler they get even worse at high level. If you buff the grappler they get better at high level but now the low level players is dying even faster.
Me and my friends just play no builds for this exact reason. Most of us played during chapter 1 and our building skills ranged from ok for some of us to pretty good / entry level competitive (atleast for me, I played a lot of tournaments and Arena and got pretty far in them, always getting to the highest rank in Arena with rather ease and placing ok in tourmanents). But then we quit the game for almost 5 years. Only really coming back for chapter OG the previous year and now. Now, when playing unranked builds, I'm getting completely outplayed in like 80% of my fights and the only way to win is to rely on my aim. Let alone how my friends who were very casual players even during chapter 1 would do in an average build lobby.
THe core issue is skill-based. The entire game would be fine if you weren't shoved into higher skill lobbies every time you went up in skill. Nobody wants to get good at a game only for the algorithm to decide they don't get to win more. If you are a zb player you simply CAN'T switch to build because of universal sbmm.
I think the main issue stems from the discrepancy in ping / latency. The skill ceiling is quite literally capped / different due to the timings that people have access to.
Fortnite is one of the hardest games to learn but also has some of the most ways to practice and also the most ways to avoid “sweats” but it does need a bit of a tutorial just to teach players how to do basic things
totally agree with your final comments about a tutorial. i play zero build because i searched on youtube for like 30 minutes for a building tutorial that explained like how it works and what to set bindings to for example, and only found shi from random pros about "easy build tips" that are actually just 90 cranking stuff. :/
I think simple edit is the future, they can make some slight tweaks to it to allow us to see through walls (which would also fix the cross hair placement issue with simple edit) and also allowing us to select all the edits on the different build pieces. One thing you didn't mention but personally I think one of the biggest problems is due to the lack of buttons on controller and not having scroll wheel reset building and editing and getting your speed up to a professional level is at such a disadvantage compared to mouse and keyboard
Fortnite OG could be the casual mode of Battle Royale, and I feel the best way to reduce the urge to build is to make it not only slower, but less reliable for combat. While removing turbo building is one thing, building delay before you can place another structure and even to start building can be added to the mode. And if you want to go even further, remove editing completely or limit the type of edits you could do.
excellent video :) i love settings that reduce complexity (and keep you on the same playing field as other players, or even place you at a disadvantage against them in some aspects) without undermining the efforts of highly-skilled players, and still maintaining fn's high skill ceiling. lowering the entry barrier is the best way forward for this game imo. i think another problem is that the default binds for building and editing are terrible and have been unchanged for years. a newer player isn't likely to realize the problems with the current default binds (if they even think about binds at all), and by the time they have improved enough to notice the flaws they might be too used to their current binds to want to learn a new set of binds.
Theres a difference between something being hard and difficult and something that just improves with time. You put the time in? You can build with no issues. No effort to get better at building? You stay bad. If it was truly 'hard', only a few people would be good at it. Most if the player base are good at it so it's not that hard, c'mon now.
I feel like simple edit is going to be such a popular feature. I can imagine in the future people setting up 1v1s and protesting "no simple edit" or "only simple edit"
Id like to see a system / gamemode where rather than an extension of the player's body, building becomes a mere tool in the player's arsenal. This could be done by putting a capped number of builds you can place before they go on cooldown, similar to how the chug cannon has limited uses that recharge over time. This would allow for the "fort building" mentioned by some of the players who came back to build because of simple edit, but also change the way the skill ceiling is shaped, in that rather than simple mechanical skill, players can be classified as better or worse based on their strategic use of limited builds. This mode shouldnt replace build mode, but i think fortnite should give it the ZB treatment and let players get a chance to experience it through an LTM. If it is well received (like ZB), they could consider making it a permanent mode. Pros: introduces builds to new players at a slower, more comprehensible rate and limits the advantage building knowledge grants more skilled players. Encourages more strategic play by limiting options and resources Cons: Slows gameplay loop by encouraging more conservative behavior. May feel unfair to pro / comp players who have had one of their legs knocked out from under them.
I began to play the game seas 9 chap 1 on switch, until seas 3 chap 4 on ps5. My skill massively increased in those 2 years, but I am still in the average tier, which sucks after 6 years, when you see kids scoring unreal after 1 year (my max is elite btw). I have to improve a lot on controller, because I can’t play keyboard (I’m playing in the living room), and I kept a lot of bad habits from my Nintendo experience (4 years is pretty long). I think the easiest way for anyone to improve on controller is to change the binding, but it takes some time to adapt. It’s working pretty well when you found the most intuitive key binding on the right action, as per exemple to quit the building mode with something else than o/b/a because you can’t turn your head while doing so (without using claws grip, which feels uncomfortable for me). While wall-replacing, you pickaxe, you build your wall, take a short time to quit building mode (you can press q on keyboard while flicking), edit, and then peak/shoot. This short time without being able to move the camera makes you loose the advantage of surprise, and makes you predictable. So, I recommend to use the right stick, for someone who uses the left stick for editing, to quit the building mode AND being able to turn their head at the same time, OR the right trigger to avoid some "unintendedly" fast flick with the right stick while staying intuitive (shoot command). Therefore, it forces you to use something different for the building attributed to this key, so it’s not perfect. Let me know if you got another idea with less issues.
I've been playing fortnite since season 3, as soon as Zero build came out I made a full switch, building is what made the game stand out, and people (in my opinion) weren't constantly obnoxious with it. Building used to be 1×1's with simple edits, now my brain can't process the speed at which builders edit now. Building isn't hard, it's just that people have figured out all the intricacies of it, and have practiced a ton, and most people don't want to spend hours learning how to do it
Slightly unrelated fact but with fighting a player who is bad, depending on how good their mechanics are you can very easily decide what the better play is. If you can’t build/enemy has better mechanics, hold out shotgun, if you are fighting a person who cannot build or at least is not at your level of mechanics, play mechanically
I agree with single button resets, scroll wheel was always a work around to poor design, & for that same reason I disagree with changing Simple Edit to a 'select piece to edit'. One of the biggest issues with building & editing, is the insane amount of button clicking & swiping required, it's not just a skill barrier but an accessibility barrier & for the most part, the changes Epic have made with Simple Edit are intuitive "why can't I just look at where the window should be, & instantly open the window?" well now I can. I'd like a lot more options, the 'select piece to edit' suggestion could be one, but fuck is this game uncomfortable to play at times. The very old, the very young, & those without much time, they'll just never be able to enjoy the core game as it was. As you acknowledge here, even if it makes the game easier for new players, it doesn't necessarily remove the skill gap, which I think is good for competitive while removing the biggest barrier to entry for new & casual players. Sure they'll still get shit on, but at least it won't feel as overwhelming. It doesn't necessaerily make building easy, most casuals still struggled with 90s in Chapter 2 which doesn't even require edits, but it makes it a hell of a lot less daunting.
As a controller player, the main issue for me with building, after simple edit was added, is finding good binds to make editing easy (limited buttons) and much more importantly, ping. No matter how much I try to box fight someone, I will always lose to ping and less overall look control.
Brother, simple edit makes things SIMPLE lol. Just keep the regular binds of the building pieces, make sure you have edit on release turned on and if youre on a controller with no paddles or anything, I would swap my edit bind to L3, and find something else for sprint. Also if your controller doesnt have paddles or buttons, GET ONE.
Always wanted a slow build mode, especially for og. Youre example with your custom match was for really competetive players, but i think in a pubs match it could make a really good difference. And even in that competetive match it looked alot more managable than normal competetive builds.
I’m a ZB player. Partly through choice and partly bc I’m a 44yr old dad with slow reflexes that plays on a high ping, high input delay setup. Even with the new build functions, I can’t build for squat to compete in pubs nvm ranked. Unless you’re a competent build player to begin with, the simple edit isn’t game changing.
One thing that people don't understand with simple edits is that you still NEED to understand how to build. Sure I can edit quick now but that doesn't mean squat if I can't understand what to do when the opponent does XYZ or the optimal/safe way to play
@@patrickstar8132 I can undersand this, but im 38, and have been playing since 2017. So building and editing hasnt been a problem for me, but as I get older my reflexes, and such arent comparable to these 13 y/o kids. However, with the release of simple edit, people in my position where you felt stuck, and stagnant, can now progress to new levels. Learning HOW to build effectively is NOT DIFFUCLT. A lot of these people on YT with tutorials and stuff aren't actually showing you EFFECTIVE, and BASIC building strategies. These flashy edits they do, and unnecessary triple edits in moments when its pointless, just confuse people. Most of the stuff you see is simply for style points. Building effectively is really quite simple, and there are a few people out there who do a great job explaining how to begin learning to piece control, and not doing it in a way where youre wasting material to look flashy.
I actually did test this out, altho I'm not all that good at fortnite, I still had basic knowledge and decided to try Simple Edit. I did this for 2 weeks and then yesterday I just got off simple edit and everything feels worse, I'm forgetting to click after pressing Edit and when I do.. I'm not even looking at the other tiles to edit. If you want to keep editing without Simple Edit, then try simple edit rather like once a day, don't do it long term.
people saying they want og fortnite back is like saying you want soccer from, the 1970s back people evolve and improve overtime, thats just how life works and if you cant keep up then it is what it is
I’ve basically only played zero build since i started playing 2 years ago, never liked builds as i played on controller and building is much harder, but tbh when simple edit came out, it makes builds sooo much fun, i feel like me and my friends can now just jump into a builds game and actually have fun because we can compete with the t try hard 9 years olds on this game, i would never attempt to play tournaments like this but this feature is just really nice for the worse builds players imo
As a controller player I’ve tried to switch to keyboard and mouse for building but I always just can’t seem to wrap my head around having to click 2 buttons to build. There should be a setting where you only have to click one button to place a build, for me selecting a tile then confirming it is too difficult
Personally as someone who just started playing keyboard and mouse for about 2 weeks I can say that simple edits are a huge help. sure I'm getting clapped by good players but I feel like I have at least somewhat of a shot at being able to build fight (keep in mind, 2 weeks new to PC). However, I can see the point you're making.
See, this would be the exact same for controller, but you would adapt quicker if you came from a controller. Simple edit for your average controller player, just made life so much better.
I agree, doesn't make sense what he said. As he said simple edit has too many downsides for already good players, so the only player switching to simple edit are newer and more bad players which closes the skill gap as you say.
They should overhaul building in pubs and keep it the same in ranked. Some ideas I've heard are no turbo building mode to replace zero build (i know you did a custom but that has above average players). Or even making it so you can't edit until your piece is completely down.
The game takes too much time to learn for most people. There is so many small details you will miss if you arent a pro player. Like what edits to make, how to rotate properly, how to make efficient builds and so on. Like probably 90% of the playerbase probably cant even do triple edits and they've played since like chapter 1
I've been playing since chapter 2 season 5. Been on console controller the entire time rececently switched 2 new gen. My friends would describe me as a sweat. My aim is really good and my builds and editing are pretty good. I still switched 2 simple edit because yes there is delay when you reset with scroll wheel, controller players don't have that, so it still is probably the fastest option. My friends who are not very good at the game because they don't play often also use simple edit, but that doesn't mean they can suddenly beat me. I still win most if not all of our fights because I play smarter not just better. I hit more shots for more damage, and I make smarter decisions so as to not take as much damage in return. I think simple edit is a great feature, and honestly closing the skill gap in Fortnite is impossible and I don't think it should be done necessarily. I'm not where near a pro skill level, but I enjoy the game because I'm good at the game. What I love about simple edit is that it can help both bad and good players increase skill level without making players who weren't very good before demons at the game, but still much better then they were.
they just need a mode called "slow build" where you can build 1 piece every 10 seconds. we can still use the building to make bases without having to go against sweaty builders . boom problem solved
what do you define sweats, i consider myself a casual only playing pubs barely any ranked and im just chill on creative but still be called a "sweat" because i build 3 boxes to have height
could be that they just want free wins, but i think that one reason they might be playing pubs is that they arent actually as good as you think they are, and they would get clapped in ranked
If you're building like mad, you're a sweat. There is zero reason in a non competitive setting to build more than a floor, 2 walls and a ramp. It isn't that serious. If you take it that seriously you shouldn't ever be in pubs. Comp is the only way to be practice for comp. I've always thought building shiuld only be in comp. It allows poor gun fighters to get advantage. And those who need advantage to win aren't good. And are sweaty. Building isn't about who can build best. It's about who can run for advantage more. And in a comp setting that's fine, in pubs, it makes those who do so look hella goofy and like they aren't as good as they want to believe they are. If you were, you wouldn't be in my pubs match. You'd be competing. (None of this applies to you, just sharing my thoughts process) @@Wishy.
I never play pubs, only with bad friends that really aren’t horrible just a skill gap like explained in the video cuz I have years playing comp and competitive 1v1s and scrims and I haven’t come across any sweats in pubs it just doesn’t happen because the real good players won’t waste their time in pubs, the ones that are in pubs are just probably fast at editing and nothing else
They could take out turbo build and decrease the limit of mats to make builds playable for the average player again but I can see some people complaining about that. Until something changes ima stick to ZB
let's also realize that turbo building IS the mechanic to increase the skill floor. turbo building makes it easier for beginners. thinking that removing it is gonna fix anything is stupid. the problem is that pros are pros and they will find a way to perfect any mechanic introduced to the game, so, doesn't matter if there is or there isn't any turbo building, pros will be better than noobs.
The solution is creative. Would probably be best to grind 1v1 against a slightly better player so you can learn but it's hard to find someone that is better than you without them completetly destroying you every round when you just got into the game.
3:38 that is my biggest problem and I have literally played since the start. I can build and I can edit but when I try to combine then together I always have trouble.
13:40 yeah but sadly epic never seems to listen to the great tips that youtubers give them, only after over 50% of the fn community starts agreeing with it
The real issue is matchmaking that puts together vastly different skill level players, bc ppl gonna be where they are in their own learning curve journey no matter adjustments to the complexity ceiling.
Exactly, every game has this figured out, even rocket league which epic operates. Why is it that 7 years later low skilled players still get put into high skill lobbies?
@@juiceskyrous Because building and editing are such rogue skills to measure that the stats used from anyone's singular game or all-time stats to put their skill level anywhere can't accurately predict someone's skill
@@AegonTargeryen I can't tell what exact method they should use, but other games have unique mechanics and still have successful matchmaking. Another option would be to just do away with skilled matchmaking entirely, the Squads playlist does this and it works well.
@ I mean you aren’t wrong about removing sbmm being a good idea but there isn’t any stat that can accurate-ishly predict someone’s skill with everything that building and editing provides to a player.
And could you give me some examples of other games with unique mechanics because I mostly just play Fortnite so I don’t know much about other games.
PeI’m pls are already complaining about the queue times, adding sbmm to pubs would inevitably kill the game. Whether through bots or outrageous queue times.
The aussieantics diss is Wild💀
bro i was just about to coment like that same thing and then it was the top comment💀
💀
Fr
Fr
Where
At a certain point we need to realize there is no way to close the gap between good players and the bad. It’s literally just how a competitive game works and there is little you can really do about it
i do think there is things that could be done, but fortnite is too iconic and too many people are using to the way it is for any good changes to be done (imo)
The bad players just need to put in time and effort if they really want to get good
The bad players could just improve.. I mean when I first started on mobile I didn’t even build n I barely won any games then I switched to console n got better.
@@MaeFlower-m1zthat’s the problem, when u gotta put in that time and effort into get good, most people simply don’t want to. Plenty of games just take playing it here and there to be decent at it, Fortnite just isn’t one of those games
true but a decent tutorial made by epic could easily fix this. like if everyone watched a single billy biceps video they'd realize it isn't even that hard to understand. you can only place 4 pieces in a square grid dude lol
I think the real issue is how hard it is to learn, all the youtube vids don't know what a "beginner" is and the that not everyone has an absurd amount of time to spent practicing.
lmao yeah, even when he was pretending to be a potato all the muscle memory was still pulling through
@@pigguviews9624 If you play the game consistently even for like 2 hours a week, you'll get better. That's how it was (sometimes even less) for me in college.
As a zero build player myself, I will admit I’m terrible at building, but the reason I don’t play build mode is because I feel like zero build just feels more calm
It's definitely more calm... Until you're getting sprayed in the open 😂
@ Honestly, I would rather deal with that then getting full boxed by some guy wearing a superhero skin
@@OsamaBahhursame😂
They should do like a “slow build mode” where you can build but there’s like a 3 second delay every 3 or 4 builds so you can add cover to protect yourself but you can’t all of this bullshit
@pt5728 he went over why that is a bad idea in the video dude. Did you even watch it🤔
@@catshq762he’s like “well then spamming is going to be meta” like that’s what it was when everyone was bad back in the early chapter
0:13 you know what else is massive?
Your forhead😂
the low taper fade meme
@@yatokun5704 Nuh uh it’s the 🎵LoW taPeR FAdE🎵
Lowwwwww tappppperrrrr fadddeeee
@@yatokun5704you know what’s massive: the unfortunate case of ‘the disappearance of yatokun5704’s dad’ the police have been looking for him for 10 years the last thing yatokun5704 was told is that his father would
“Be back he’s just getting milk”
Very sad and massive
11:35 You are forgetting ONE major thing. The Gap remains the same, yes, HOWEVER, the PERCENTAGE/RATIO of said gap decreases.
To illustrate this, let us assume that everyone's building 'skill' can be measured as one 'rank'. So say the FNCS champ is level 100, while the no builds noob is 12, and someone with their builds unbinded is 0.
Let us say a new feature made it easier by 500 levels, so everyone's level went up by 500 (except for the unbinded dude, cause he can't use the feature).
This would make the noob level 512 while the champ is level 600. The Gap is the same, 88 levels, but 88 levels when the max is 100 is WAAAAAAY more of a gap than 88 levels when the max is 600.
A GREAT example would be health. IIRC there were some LTMs that changed your health. 88 health did not matter AS much to Doom's Chosen than it matters to someone playing OG (where shields are RARE af).
Bro wrote an entire essay in a comment section of a Fortnite video
@@Skiny6khe’s was explaining something to everybody and u have ur pfp as a Fortnite character are u even real?
Touch some grass
But in all seriousness it makes sense
The skill gap would not be level 512 and champ 600 it would be 500 and the champ 1000
8:34 SkibidiSigmaBoy caught me off guard
9:34 massive?
You know what else is massive?
loWWWWWWW
Taaaaaapeerrrr
Faaadeeeee
@@I8-Flame imagine
“The delay is not massive”
But you know what is massive???????
THE NINJA LOW TAPER FADE MEME 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
lowwwwwwwwwww ta-
Your mo-
true👆
jk😂
The solution to literally ALL of these issues is something Epic seems to ignore: FIX SKILL BASED MATCHMAKING! This means that good players always will be in tournament-level lobbies (yes, even in public/casual matches) and thus they will always complain about how difficult their lobbies are. The leaderboards in FortniteTracker will no longer have people with insane win percentages and stratospheric k/d ratios. The crown farming in pubs will end. Pubstomping will end. Fixing SBMM would keep below average (bad) players away from these fiends. Epic should use ALL AVAILABLE stats like Accuracy, Materials Used, and Edits Per Minute to place the good players into their own, high tier lobbies, and they would never, ever run into new or bad players. It would let new players slowly build their skills over time, without getting pubstomped endlessly.
this ain’t lowkey bad tho
you need to tweet that😹
Low-key want to get into building but feel discouraged every time since while I'm struggling to consistently ramp, these niggas are out here building sky scrapers and making edits before I can even comprehend it.
While for some people this is the optimal way to learn, I'd rather be at my skill level and build my skills that way 😭
@@patrickstar8132This has been the case for YEARS you just have to play to learn not to win. Use zone wars and respawn modes for practice. I got good on the Switch on crossplay aka nightmare difficulty in a few weeks
Fortnite + builds == fighting game with guns
Isolating the dedicated competitive playerbase by making their lobbies so difficult that they may consider quitting, is not a profitable strategy. You forget that not only does epic have to cater to the casual player base, they must cater to the competitive player base as well.
if dont want the new players to get pubstomped, make bot lobbies. sbmm isnt the end all be all, it sucks in many major ways
1:28 that’s actually so true, sometimes I go to play 1v1 and I fight demons and very good players(good fighting mechanics and fast editing) but they seem not to play any tournaments
I love fortnite, been playing since chapter 2. So I had to learn how to build and survive. But now I’m more a zero build player, and every season I end up playing it more because I feel that every person I run into can full box me.
I just wanna have fun man
I think that's a mental thing. I can almost never box people and I win games
The only issue I have with building is I have very high and unstable ping, but I still love it. Building when you aren’t lagging feels so well done and is actually quite easy to learn and repeat, since it is just patterns and lists on inputs to do anything.
If it's not a server issue then it's your location in reference to the server and your internet stability. Not much Epic Games could do to change that.
One point that I think didn't get mentioned in the video at all is that, as I'd say, every 'good' builds player has muscle memory for selecting tiles. Especially in my case, I’m not a pro by any means, but I’ve developed muscle memory, and I just don’t want to lose all of that just to switch to simple edit, no matter if they make it better or not.
Epic really just needs to hire Reiss at this point. His solutions were very well thought out.
What solution did he offer in this vid?
0:14 do you know what else is massive?
IMAGINE IF TFUE GOT A HIGH TAPER FADE 💀
shits not funny
low taper fade
shits is funny
@@axemuth1757I just shit my pants
I did not know about turbo building till I watched this video. Before I watched this video my builds were trash and delayed. After I watched a little bit I found out about turbo building, now my builds feel way better. Thanks!
Lots of this topics are locked behind playing on console and PC, and many people don't recognize it
What do you play on?
Based pfp
I started realizing I couldn’t play casually when I had to warm up before hopping into pubs
lmaoo so true. I mainlt just playu creative for 20 mins at a time and barely play real games now
Yes, yes it is reisshub
🗣️🔥
no, no its not aydarr
@@cactuseksyes, yes it is
@@goodie2goodie1 skill issue
No shit @@cactuseks that's exactly why it's too hard, the vast majority of people have the skill issue
7:15 The only way IMO that getting rid of Turbo building would work is if Epic pulled a time machine and made it so that it was NEVER implemented. That would make it so that the IDEA of modern build spam would never be there. Sure, the top pro players in FNCS finals would use butterfly clickers and macros and all, but majority of the playerbase won't
i feel that if turbo building was never added, the game never would have developed a competitive scene. Or at least not to the level we are at now.
@@birdi2772 Yea i do think that. Though IMO it could have also went a different way, with building taking a backseat and the 'meta' being more focused around positioning and aim.
Why are so many people like this… the problem is not the skill ceiling. The problem is the skill GAP. The game is fun because of how complicated building rudiments are and how you can do a bunch of things super fast. As another reply said, the competitive scene is encouraged by how mechanically intense and skill based the fighting gameplay is.
As long as players of a certain skill level can actually get matched with people of similar skill, or at least make building and fighting tutorials and drill maps more accessible in-game
@@birdi2772we'd probably be around like chapter 3 building speed without turbo build. I still think the skill gap would be around the same though. It ultimately comes down to who can spam builds faster without turbo build
I think the ping disadvantage in taking/holding walls can be fixed by having the server track how long a player has been holding their place button so that the server can place a wall for whoever has been holding it longer instead of just granting it to whoever’s place packet first reaches the server
The clips in the video reminded me why we need old movement animations. Then I could actually see my pickaxe while editing.
Really love how analytical your content is, keep up the great work!
As a mobile player who has always played zero build because of the low ping,FPS,screen size and just weird controls on mobile I have always wanted to build and edit fast which as never possible on mobile which has allowed me to become an extremely good zero build player but now with simple edit I can finally build and get the joy of a build fight
Low ping is a good thing, do you mean high ping?
My point exactly. These people who may not be as mechanically skillful, can now make those complex edits and piece control plays at the press of a button. Making what was once a "bad" player, better than average.
10:53 HAS ME DYINGGGG LMAO
We have a similar problem with fighting games, but it usually pertains to certain characters and not mechanics, and I think a good example to give would be Zangief or any character from his archetype. Zangief is usually not regarded as a top tier or really anywhere close in that matter, but characters in his archetype being grapplers are not normally hard to play at a surface level causing them to be really good scrub killers. Bad players have trouble beating them because one move could take 40% of their life bar when for them it take 5 moves to do the same damage, but for good players not only will they know how to play around that move, one 40% combo won't be hard for them. If you nerf the grappler they get even worse at high level. If you buff the grappler they get better at high level but now the low level players is dying even faster.
Me and my friends just play no builds for this exact reason. Most of us played during chapter 1 and our building skills ranged from ok for some of us to pretty good / entry level competitive (atleast for me, I played a lot of tournaments and Arena and got pretty far in them, always getting to the highest rank in Arena with rather ease and placing ok in tourmanents). But then we quit the game for almost 5 years. Only really coming back for chapter OG the previous year and now. Now, when playing unranked builds, I'm getting completely outplayed in like 80% of my fights and the only way to win is to rely on my aim. Let alone how my friends who were very casual players even during chapter 1 would do in an average build lobby.
You know what else is MASSIVE
Fr
MY MOM
Low taper fade
THe core issue is skill-based. The entire game would be fine if you weren't shoved into higher skill lobbies every time you went up in skill. Nobody wants to get good at a game only for the algorithm to decide they don't get to win more. If you are a zb player you simply CAN'T switch to build because of universal sbmm.
I think the main issue stems from the discrepancy in ping / latency. The skill ceiling is quite literally capped / different due to the timings that people have access to.
As a 52 y/o building and editing made me fall in love with this game. TY for the masterclass it has been insightful.
Fortnite is one of the hardest games to learn but also has some of the most ways to practice and also the most ways to avoid “sweats” but it does need a bit of a tutorial just to teach players how to do basic things
totally agree with your final comments about a tutorial. i play zero build because i searched on youtube for like 30 minutes for a building tutorial that explained like how it works and what to set bindings to for example, and only found shi from random pros about "easy build tips" that are actually just 90 cranking stuff. :/
I think a better solution is to limit the material cap in OG, from 300 to something really limiting like 30
1:39 that's crazy
U know what else is crazy
LOWWWWWW TAPPPER FADDEE
YESSS, ANOTHER VIDEO. This channel has gotten me back into comp fortnite honestly
I think simple edit is the future, they can make some slight tweaks to it to allow us to see through walls (which would also fix the cross hair placement issue with simple edit) and also allowing us to select all the edits on the different build pieces.
One thing you didn't mention but personally I think one of the biggest problems is due to the lack of buttons on controller and not having scroll wheel reset building and editing and getting your speed up to a professional level is at such a disadvantage compared to mouse and keyboard
Raise your hand if you’ve been watching Reiss for a while now ✋
Such a Great Video Reiss
Fortnite OG could be the casual mode of Battle Royale, and I feel the best way to reduce the urge to build is to make it not only slower, but less reliable for combat. While removing turbo building is one thing, building delay before you can place another structure and even to start building can be added to the mode. And if you want to go even further, remove editing completely or limit the type of edits you could do.
excellent video :)
i love settings that reduce complexity (and keep you on the same playing field as other players, or even place you at a disadvantage against them in some aspects) without undermining the efforts of highly-skilled players, and still maintaining fn's high skill ceiling. lowering the entry barrier is the best way forward for this game imo.
i think another problem is that the default binds for building and editing are terrible and have been unchanged for years. a newer player isn't likely to realize the problems with the current default binds (if they even think about binds at all), and by the time they have improved enough to notice the flaws they might be too used to their current binds to want to learn a new set of binds.
as someone who thrives in fps shooters and is dogshit at building in fortnite, these fixes with simple edit that you suggest are a good idea👍
Theres a difference between something being hard and difficult and something that just improves with time. You put the time in? You can build with no issues.
No effort to get better at building? You stay bad.
If it was truly 'hard', only a few people would be good at it. Most if the player base are good at it so it's not that hard, c'mon now.
Tip sprint with 3 in every game so you can hit W and sprint at the same time with 1 finger
I feel like simple edit is going to be such a popular feature. I can imagine in the future people setting up 1v1s and protesting "no simple edit" or "only simple edit"
Id like to see a system / gamemode where rather than an extension of the player's body, building becomes a mere tool in the player's arsenal. This could be done by putting a capped number of builds you can place before they go on cooldown, similar to how the chug cannon has limited uses that recharge over time. This would allow for the "fort building" mentioned by some of the players who came back to build because of simple edit, but also change the way the skill ceiling is shaped, in that rather than simple mechanical skill, players can be classified as better or worse based on their strategic use of limited builds. This mode shouldnt replace build mode, but i think fortnite should give it the ZB treatment and let players get a chance to experience it through an LTM. If it is well received (like ZB), they could consider making it a permanent mode.
Pros: introduces builds to new players at a slower, more comprehensible rate and limits the advantage building knowledge grants more skilled players. Encourages more strategic play by limiting options and resources
Cons: Slows gameplay loop by encouraging more conservative behavior. May feel unfair to pro / comp players who have had one of their legs knocked out from under them.
This is a great video and as a intermediate Fortnite player I understand a lot of the issues you talked about
9:33 But you know what is MASSIVE?
LOWW TAPERRR FADE🔥
Lowww taper fade
Lowwwww taper fade🔥🔥🔥
I began to play the game seas 9 chap 1 on switch, until seas 3 chap 4 on ps5. My skill massively increased in those 2 years, but I am still in the average tier, which sucks after 6 years, when you see kids scoring unreal after 1 year (my max is elite btw). I have to improve a lot on controller, because I can’t play keyboard (I’m playing in the living room), and I kept a lot of bad habits from my Nintendo experience (4 years is pretty long). I think the easiest way for anyone to improve on controller is to change the binding, but it takes some time to adapt. It’s working pretty well when you found the most intuitive key binding on the right action, as per exemple to quit the building mode with something else than o/b/a because you can’t turn your head while doing so (without using claws grip, which feels uncomfortable for me). While wall-replacing, you pickaxe, you build your wall, take a short time to quit building mode (you can press q on keyboard while flicking), edit, and then peak/shoot. This short time without being able to move the camera makes you loose the advantage of surprise, and makes you predictable. So, I recommend to use the right stick, for someone who uses the left stick for editing, to quit the building mode AND being able to turn their head at the same time, OR the right trigger to avoid some "unintendedly" fast flick with the right stick while staying intuitive (shoot command). Therefore, it forces you to use something different for the building attributed to this key, so it’s not perfect. Let me know if you got another idea with less issues.
🥶🥶
I've been playing fortnite since season 3, as soon as Zero build came out I made a full switch, building is what made the game stand out, and people (in my opinion) weren't constantly obnoxious with it. Building used to be 1×1's with simple edits, now my brain can't process the speed at which builders edit now. Building isn't hard, it's just that people have figured out all the intricacies of it, and have practiced a ton, and most people don't want to spend hours learning how to do it
8:41 very skillfull opponent
Slightly unrelated fact but with fighting a player who is bad, depending on how good their mechanics are you can very easily decide what the better play is. If you can’t build/enemy has better mechanics, hold out shotgun, if you are fighting a person who cannot build or at least is not at your level of mechanics, play mechanically
I think that a game mode with edit/ building speed restrictions would be good, like you can only build/ edit once a second
What we need is a mind reading machine with 0 input lag to make all these edits.
I agree with single button resets, scroll wheel was always a work around to poor design, & for that same reason I disagree with changing Simple Edit to a 'select piece to edit'.
One of the biggest issues with building & editing, is the insane amount of button clicking & swiping required, it's not just a skill barrier but an accessibility barrier & for the most part, the changes Epic have made with Simple Edit are intuitive "why can't I just look at where the window should be, & instantly open the window?" well now I can.
I'd like a lot more options, the 'select piece to edit' suggestion could be one, but fuck is this game uncomfortable to play at times. The very old, the very young, & those without much time, they'll just never be able to enjoy the core game as it was.
As you acknowledge here, even if it makes the game easier for new players, it doesn't necessarily remove the skill gap, which I think is good for competitive while removing the biggest barrier to entry for new & casual players. Sure they'll still get shit on, but at least it won't feel as overwhelming.
It doesn't necessaerily make building easy, most casuals still struggled with 90s in Chapter 2 which doesn't even require edits, but it makes it a hell of a lot less daunting.
As a controller player, the main issue for me with building, after simple edit was added, is finding good binds to make editing easy (limited buttons) and much more importantly, ping. No matter how much I try to box fight someone, I will always lose to ping and less overall look control.
Brother, simple edit makes things SIMPLE lol. Just keep the regular binds of the building pieces, make sure you have edit on release turned on and if youre on a controller with no paddles or anything, I would swap my edit bind to L3, and find something else for sprint. Also if your controller doesnt have paddles or buttons, GET ONE.
Always wanted a slow build mode, especially for og. Youre example with your custom match was for really competetive players, but i think in a pubs match it could make a really good difference. And even in that competetive match it looked alot more managable than normal competetive builds.
11:02 I was gonna laugh so hard that I almost choked on my food😂💀
I’m a ZB player. Partly through choice and partly bc I’m a 44yr old dad with slow reflexes that plays on a high ping, high input delay setup. Even with the new build functions, I can’t build for squat to compete in pubs nvm ranked. Unless you’re a competent build player to begin with, the simple edit isn’t game changing.
One thing that people don't understand with simple edits is that you still NEED to understand how to build. Sure I can edit quick now but that doesn't mean squat if I can't understand what to do when the opponent does XYZ or the optimal/safe way to play
@@patrickstar8132 I can undersand this, but im 38, and have been playing since 2017. So building and editing hasnt been a problem for me, but as I get older my reflexes, and such arent comparable to these 13 y/o kids. However, with the release of simple edit, people in my position where you felt stuck, and stagnant, can now progress to new levels. Learning HOW to build effectively is NOT DIFFUCLT. A lot of these people on YT with tutorials and stuff aren't actually showing you EFFECTIVE, and BASIC building strategies. These flashy edits they do, and unnecessary triple edits in moments when its pointless, just confuse people. Most of the stuff you see is simply for style points. Building effectively is really quite simple, and there are a few people out there who do a great job explaining how to begin learning to piece control, and not doing it in a way where youre wasting material to look flashy.
I actually did test this out, altho I'm not all that good at fortnite, I still had basic knowledge and decided to try Simple Edit. I did this for 2 weeks and then yesterday I just got off simple edit and everything feels worse, I'm forgetting to click after pressing Edit and when I do.. I'm not even looking at the other tiles to edit.
If you want to keep editing without Simple Edit, then try simple edit rather like once a day, don't do it long term.
Loving all the content reiss!!!
people saying they want og fortnite back is like saying you want soccer from, the 1970s back people evolve and improve overtime, thats just how life works and if you cant keep up then it is what it is
I’ve basically only played zero build since i started playing 2 years ago, never liked builds as i played on controller and building is much harder, but tbh when simple edit came out, it makes builds sooo much fun, i feel like me and my friends can now just jump into a builds game and actually have fun because we can compete with the t try hard 9 years olds on this game, i would never attempt to play tournaments like this but this feature is just really nice for the worse builds players imo
As a controller player I’ve tried to switch to keyboard and mouse for building but I always just can’t seem to wrap my head around having to click 2 buttons to build. There should be a setting where you only have to click one button to place a build, for me selecting a tile then confirming it is too difficult
Personally as someone who just started playing keyboard and mouse for about 2 weeks I can say that simple edits are a huge help. sure I'm getting clapped by good players but I feel like I have at least somewhat of a shot at being able to build fight (keep in mind, 2 weeks new to PC). However, I can see the point you're making.
See, this would be the exact same for controller, but you would adapt quicker if you came from a controller. Simple edit for your average controller player, just made life so much better.
1:39 what did aussie do to u🙏😭
I think the way to get isnt doing edit courses but by just playing casuals and that.
but then that's how I learned how to get better
14:15 there is a setting for this on controller btw over by confirm edit on release there’s an option to confirm reset on release called “both”
Aussie vs Reisshub 🗣️🔥
That sneaky jab at Aussie when talking about bad builders was hillarious 🤣
the solution is to add employment-based matchmaking
11:02 dam Courage that's embarrasing...
Building hard ❌️
A sweat ✅️
Tbh not many good players use simple edit so it would probably close the skill gap between casual and good players as many casual players use it
I agree, doesn't make sense what he said. As he said simple edit has too many downsides for already good players, so the only player switching to simple edit are newer and more bad players which closes the skill gap as you say.
They should overhaul building in pubs and keep it the same in ranked. Some ideas I've heard are no turbo building mode to replace zero build (i know you did a custom but that has above average players). Or even making it so you can't edit until your piece is completely down.
The game takes too much time to learn for most people. There is so many small details you will miss if you arent a pro player. Like what edits to make, how to rotate properly, how to make efficient builds and so on. Like probably 90% of the playerbase probably cant even do triple edits and they've played since like chapter 1
I've been playing since chapter 2 season 5. Been on console controller the entire time rececently switched 2 new gen. My friends would describe me as a sweat. My aim is really good and my builds and editing are pretty good. I still switched 2 simple edit because yes there is delay when you reset with scroll wheel, controller players don't have that, so it still is probably the fastest option. My friends who are not very good at the game because they don't play often also use simple edit, but that doesn't mean they can suddenly beat me. I still win most if not all of our fights because I play smarter not just better. I hit more shots for more damage, and I make smarter decisions so as to not take as much damage in return. I think simple edit is a great feature, and honestly closing the skill gap in Fortnite is impossible and I don't think it should be done necessarily. I'm not where near a pro skill level, but I enjoy the game because I'm good at the game. What I love about simple edit is that it can help both bad and good players increase skill level without making players who weren't very good before demons at the game, but still much better then they were.
11:04 WHY WAS THAT SO PERFECT
bro i will be in a “peaceful” end game and then some kid edit courses me in final moving
me thinking it’s a pro but it’s a complete random
as a casual player, simple edit is necessary. i cant even edit at all normally but with it i can compete
Reissub has the best and smartest tutorials.
they just need a mode called "slow build" where you can build 1 piece every 10 seconds. we can still use the building to make bases without having to go against sweaty builders . boom problem solved
I don’t think it is, the issue is more about how despite having ranked, sweats still end up playing pubs.
what do you define sweats, i consider myself a casual only playing pubs barely any ranked and im just chill on creative but still be called a "sweat" because i build 3 boxes to have height
could be that they just want free wins, but i think that one reason they might be playing pubs is that they arent actually as good as you think they are, and they would get clapped in ranked
SBMM still exists (to an extent) in pubs, My Friend's lobbies are significantly worse than mine. (even though we are on the same platform)
If you're building like mad, you're a sweat. There is zero reason in a non competitive setting to build more than a floor, 2 walls and a ramp. It isn't that serious. If you take it that seriously you shouldn't ever be in pubs. Comp is the only way to be practice for comp.
I've always thought building shiuld only be in comp. It allows poor gun fighters to get advantage. And those who need advantage to win aren't good. And are sweaty.
Building isn't about who can build best. It's about who can run for advantage more. And in a comp setting that's fine, in pubs, it makes those who do so look hella goofy and like they aren't as good as they want to believe they are. If you were, you wouldn't be in my pubs match. You'd be competing. (None of this applies to you, just sharing my thoughts process) @@Wishy.
I never play pubs, only with bad friends that really aren’t horrible just a skill gap like explained in the video cuz I have years playing comp and competitive 1v1s and scrims and I haven’t come across any sweats in pubs it just doesn’t happen because the real good players won’t waste their time in pubs, the ones that are in pubs are just probably fast at editing and nothing else
Love this guy and the videos he make
1:40 Aussie Antics is crazy lmao
11:04 Courage really thought he was cooking
They could take out turbo build and decrease the limit of mats to make builds playable for the average player again but I can see some people complaining about that. Until something changes ima stick to ZB
Thanks tor reconfirming why Zero Build is the best option
This is bouta start a riesshub aussie antics rivalry TEAM HUB
let's also realize that turbo building IS the mechanic to increase the skill floor. turbo building makes it easier for beginners. thinking that removing it is gonna fix anything is stupid. the problem is that pros are pros and they will find a way to perfect any mechanic introduced to the game, so, doesn't matter if there is or there isn't any turbo building, pros will be better than noobs.
babe wake up reisshub posted
RUclips hide this from me for 12 seconds it slacking ngl (also yes it is pretty hard for me at least bulding takes forever to learn)
Not to mention ping difference also plays a major role in
4:11 this is why I use my ring finger on w/S my pinky on a and middle finger on d so that my index finger rests on f
I want to become better but idk how,that’s my problem but idk about other people
The solution is creative. Would probably be best to grind 1v1 against a slightly better player so you can learn but it's hard to find someone that is better than you without them completetly destroying you every round when you just got into the game.
3:38 that is my biggest problem and I have literally played since the start. I can build and I can edit but when I try to combine then together I always have trouble.
1:39 bro dissed aussieantics
13:40 yeah but sadly epic never seems to listen to the great tips that youtubers give them, only after over 50% of the fn community starts agreeing with it