I've Received More Complaints About This Company Than Any Other - MSR - Outdoor Company Review

[@lindsaymac01]

The #1 rule so many manufacturers seem to either forget or ignore: "A happy customer tells his friends, an unhappy customer tells the world."

[@ue40zocken]

I own a "MSR Elixier 2" tent for more than 2 years now, had it with me on several longer bike tours and never had an issue, whatever weather conditions i used it in. Last year i had to spend 3 whole days and nights in it in very heavy rain and it didn't leak at all. Maybe i'm lucky, but i like that tent and think the 400 Euros were spent well. Greetings from Germany, thx for your videos.

[@jlt131]

this really surprises me, they've been one of the best brands I've used - including top notch customer service all three times I've required it. they even shipped me parts, across an international border, free of charge, free shipping, and gave me more pieces than i needed.

[@S.L.1211]

I have an MSR Solo Hubba NX tent and their pocket rocket 2 stove - never fails me. My sister has an MSR Elixer tent too. We love their products. Well designed and a pleasure to use. In my mind, they are top notch. Maybe I'm just lucky.

[@stevenperron3619]

I've had the same "hit and miss" experience with MSR over the last 20+ years. The one thing that has NEVER let me down is my Hubba-hubba tent. Days of heavy downpour and not one drop got through. Mine has lasted me through 2 AT though hikes and many small weekenders. Some say that they wear out, but mine is going strong after 12 years of regular use. Downside: very expensive.

[@jlt131]

One thing I've always appreciated about MSR products (stoves, filters, etc) is their field repairability. everything can totally be disassembled, repaired/cleaned, and reassembled, even when out in the woods. i've never tried their tents - perhaps they're not as good in that area. But be careful about saying a company is bad just because you've seen more bad posts about it than good - people that have good experiences with gear and customer service are a lot less likely to make noise and speak out than those that have had a bad experience.

[@keeperofthegood]

People don't selectively speak out. If you have 10 companies that are statistically equivalent (not materially equivalent), you would have 10 equal levels of bad reviews (customer experience over time evens out). If you have 1 of those 10 gaining more negatives than the other 9, that is significant. Given too the size of the company, the partner companies, the past and present owner companies and given that all these firms market shares are comparable it is not a situation of "BIG" company VS "little firm". What Luke said is that that over 10 years this one company is a stand out for the amount of negative experiences voluntarily reported and that is significant.

[@jlt131]

@@keeperofthegood that's not entirely true though. One of those ten companies could have 80% happy customers while another one has 80% unhappy customers. You're still just seeing mostly bad reviews, so there's no way to tell the true overall experience. And the mere fact that MSR has gone through so many changes/owners sort of makes all older experiences moot. If it's a new customer service system, only new complaints are valid. If it's new products or source materials, only new complaints would be valid. (Unless you're out there buying used gear, then older reviews would be what you'd want). And maybe that means my own experiences with their fantastic customer service aren't valid because it was over 5 years ago. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@idiot_RC]

That's true to point. But equally true is the fact that a lot of people buy something and review it before they've ever used it because it "looks great" or "feels like good quality." A lot of other people use a product very lightly and never really put it to the test. Take tents for example. I would estimate that the majority of people tent camping only go in nice weather with clear skies, never knowing whether or not their tent is waterproof or holds up to its claims. Now yes, the majority of those people are probably using Coleman and Walmart branded tents, but are still a significant amount of people who buy premium products who really don't get much use from them. And I will say, in my own experience and the experience that I've heard from others, MSR has by far the most complaints of a premium brand. While all companies have issues with certain products, the majority of complaints I hear about MSR is how they handle issues and not necessarily the issue itself.

[@maximusjoseppi5904]

It's generally accepted in business that you are 3 times more likely to receive negative feedback than good. Happy customers is every minute your phone isn't ringing.

[@keeperofthegood]

@@jlt131 Thats why our firm reviews the past 90 days in reporting customer satisfaction results to our clients (thats the significant time frame, we can report any time frame needed). A single bad employee will cause a 'blip' in negative feedback, removing that employee will level that blip down again. Having QA the numbers over time, what you will normally see is a variance of 0.1 to 0.2 on a 1.0 to 5.0 scale for consumer satisfaction (or 0 to 10 if doing net promoter/detractor scoring to one decimal). It really does even out over time, and that makes any deviation significant as it shows there is an issue. An excess of positive reviews is also bad, it suggests actions being taken to drive the positives. The metrics get more complicated from there of course, but that is dashboard values for most companies that really do monitor their business. Look at it like a sports league. All the teams are equal players, some teams win more than others, but overall they are fairly even. If you get one stand out losing team that team has an issue that normally you get a headline "coach soandso was fired". The opposite is also true, if you get a team that seems to win more often over the rest that is often when doping or number fixing happens and again headlines follow.

[@briargoatkilla]

I have an original hubba that is going on 20 years old. Still lighter and tougher than most new age backpacking tents on the market. It's awesome. I spray and seam seal it every couple years, so no leaks. A lot of people complain about condensation with their tents, but it's really all about keeping the fly up off the ground and general site selection.

[@briargoatkilla]

@Adrian T well don't you just know absolutely nothing. Go watch some more videos.

[@rossseymour5223]

For the past five years only purchased 3 MSR products, with generally good results. 1) Pocket Rocket stove. Not sure the model, the one with the Piezo lighter. No problems. 2) MSR Snowshoes. No problems. 3) MSR Trail Shot. No QC problems, but it just wasn't designed well for more than light use (e.g. taking a quick sip while trail running) and wasn't good for backpacking. FWIW, still have a Whisper Light stove from the 1980's that works well.

[@dudeymcduderson]

I've got the trailshot and it's like a gym workout unless all you want is a little sip. I switched to the Sawyer micro and it's so much better.

[@ironkid8836]

Love the pocket rocket and my mother worked for cascade designs in Midleton co
Cork Ireland

[@FrankieC200]

Agree 100% regarding MSR tents. Hubba-hubba leaked on first use. Company replaced. Got a couple of years then all seam tape started peeling off. Company said "That's the life span." Told me to slather outside with seam sealer. On the plus side, it bent but did not break in "bomb cyclone" on Lost Coast.

[@PhilAndersonOutside]

Same identical issue with seam tape peeling. I too was able to mend it with seam sealer.

[@engrmoutassim]

There’s a direct relationship between expense and expectations. MSR ain’t cheap hence their customers tend to have high expectations that meet the company’s ads/specs and would definitely complain if it disappoints. Cheap brand don’t generate high expectations and should they perform well, they end up getting all the praise.
I own the same MSR tent for 6yrs and it performs exactly as advertised, darn well. Though, I’m no MSR fanboy, they still got their ups and downs.
Great video!

[@phasmata3813]

This. MSR also gets a lot more customers than many of the rando brands flooding Amazon. More customers, more complaints--just a numbers game.

[@tomkruczek668]

Love the subject, Luke. I have purchased many, many products over the years, and I'm a bit of a gear junkie. The only MSR product I own is the MSR Lightning Ascent Snowshoes. I've owned them for about 5 years, along with the extensions and storage bag. No issues whatsoever and I use them every winter in New England. Thanks for a great subject and for your channel!

[@tbo2120]

Love this series. My MSR experience? 57 camps in my Elixir 2, through 30mph winds, extreme downpours and relentless weather conditions (usually in the British summer months which can be real wash outs) Totally bomb proof in my experience. It’s a 2019 edition and is seam sealed. Can’t fault it. Would buy another and I’m considering it just because I love reliable gear. Cheers. Look forward to the next in the series!

[@Matthew-hs1qi]

My experience with the elixir as well!

[@tbo2120]

@@Matthew-hs1qi no reason to buy a different tent, feel it’s a great all rounder and worth the money 👍🏼

[@Matthew-hs1qi]

@T Bo for sure I was caught in a week's worth of hard rain in Scotland West Coast bone try I'm starting to think there's a difference in supplie and service in the US to the eu

[@logannevins1959]

I think it was the pocket rocket 2 that got me into MSR and I've used it for about 3 years, in the US and in 2 trips to Indonesia. It's always been a phenomenal stove for me.

[@cal8362]

I have an MSR Hubba Hubba and its been great, held up perfectly in an ice storm once. I also like the MSR windburner stove and groundhog stakes. So my luck with the company has been good so far

[@Wordsmyth8]

Love the groundhog stakes.

[@crankshaft007]

You would be one of the few my friend, my 3 generations of hubba hubba has had nothing but issues many design flaws. Secondly I have 2 other msr tents and all the flies fell apart and msr refused to help me. Customer service is zero stars

[@HostileTakeover2]

@@crankshaft007 Interesting. I've personally used maybe 4 or 5 different of their tents over the years, and camp monthly with a group that uses 6 of the Elixer 3s and 2 of the Hubba NX1s each time and they've been using them for just shy of 3 years; >100 degree summers, subzero winters, super windy storms, snow, you name it. There have been zero problems with any of them when set up and used correctly. Except for the stupid tiny aluminum stakes bending in anything less than soft ground, but I don't count that. Never used the Hubba Hubba itself though.

[@Valeohamilton]

My MSR Hubba purchased in 2016 has been a great tent; Ive only had to replace the elastic cord that runs through the tent poles last year and no other impactful wear. No leaks in a day of thunderstorms and rain. Great design. I've heard complaints about modern iterations however.

[@theoriginalrabbithole]

Great subject for a series! There's been many companies that have started out great in the beginning but after they change ownership, the 'recipe for success' gets tinkered with in the interest of increasing profits by eliminating redundant personnel and manufacturing cost cutting due to a new corporate structure that's now the real boss and things change internally at the company, as well as in the final product we buy. Same brand on the package but different people with different objectives behind it now.

[@Pygar2]

Dilbertizing.

[@azclaimjumper]

Please review Hilleberg tents, Soto, or Western Mountaineering
A series like this, Luke, is long overdue. Grrreat idea, keep 'em coming.
I bought an MSR Whisperlite Stove when they were first introduced back in the 1970's; it's always fired up & has served me well, truly a quality product & I paid something like $35.00 for it. Yes, I annually disassemble it, clean the parts & reassemble it for another year of trouble free use. Mine came with a leather washer in the pump, not a plastic seal.
My water filter of choice is their MSR Trailshot. I've tried some other brands but keep coming back to the Trailshot.
I was well aware of the major leaking issues with their tents that weren't seam sealed & YES, MSR is still having to deal with a very poor public image of all MSR labeled products because of the way they tried to ignore their leaking tent issues with their customers.
Warm Regards from bone dry Reno, Nevada

[@greyhikes5236]

Good spot. I have MSR tents, poles and burners. Elixir 1 and 2. The 2 has been fantastic for us. Had it 2 years in all conditions, its changed colour and it's still going strong. Looked after it seem sealed it again and waterproofed it and it's still going strong. Purchased another one that's how confident I am with this tent. I think where you live has a lot to do with it. My windburner broke and I had absolutely no luck with the retailer I bought it from. I got in touch with MSR and they sent me a replacement FOC. Snapped a pole on the Elixir and they replaced it FOC, had no issues with the UK customer service. On the price range before all the inflation C19 etc they were not an expensive tent? Still only paid £240 for Elixir 2 a months ago and paid £220 for a Lanshan 2 Pro. Quality is miles apart in my humble opinion. My walking poles saved my life, so no complaints with them. Windburner breaking has been the only blemish on the company so far but replacing it before the seller did anything is great customer service on their part 😉

[@drvoxmentat]

My MSR Hubba NX 1-man tent has sheltered me on many diverse adventures and conditions throughout the last decade. Flawless performance. I use their stoves as well, same performance. Perhaps their quality has slipped over the last few years, but I can’t say anything bad about them. This episode was a surprise to me.

[@JulienMorrissette]

I have a hubba hubba and i have the same experience. Can't say anything wring about it

[@russelllapua4904]

Wasn't it because they shifted their build to China?

[@drvoxmentat]

@@russelllapua4904 according to their press releases, their products are predominantly made in Seattle and Cork, Ireland.

[@nilesdelta8636]

Agree

[@JohnGault2398]

Would love to see an episode on Coleman. They seem to be a company that is coasting on reputation, some of their things I have seen in the stores the last few years were obviously poorly made.

[@212caboose]

The biggest problem with these larger brand names is that for the most part, you're paying for a name. You're not getting a product that is consistent with the cost. Then, they have the audacity to consistently blame the customer when problems arise. That's NOT the way to do business. In fact, if they WANT to drive their business into the ground, THAT is how to accomplish it.

[@ivanalban5037]

This is a brilliant subject to explore. There are fewer people willing to tackle this subject with an objective view point. You're awesome and thanks my homeboy!

[@OutsideChronicles]

Great video idea and a great discussion. I have always viewed MSR as rock solid. I own the Whisperlite Universal, PocketRocket 2, Groundhogs, and several pairs of EVO Trail and EVO Ascent snowshoes. My experience with these products has been extremely positive. I opted for a JetBoil MiniMo over the Windburner, I love the MiniMo, but sometimes have some buyers remorse. The only issue I have had with MSR is with the bindings of my EVO Ascents. I have wore them out at the hinge point and the rubber is thin. I wanted to replace them, but they are having supply issues through COVID. It looks like they are now transitioning to the Paraglide binding on the Trail series. Hopefully, I will be able to replace them. FYI, the Ascents are. 10+ years old and have seen 100's of hard miles. On a side note, I had to field repair a binding after a fall using the televator heel as a pin. It is genius how they make the gear field replaceable.
I am looking for a tent and the MSR Hubba Hubba 2P is on my list. I am looking for durability. Many of the lightweight tents are pretty delicate (BA Copper Spur is also on the list) But have seen reports of the Easton poles not being polished correctly and causing splinters. People that sanded them with fine grit paper report "no more splinters" and love the tent.
MSR has not failed me in very cold conditions in the Adirondacks. The comments on this thread are very helpful. It will be interesting to see how other companies stack up. See you outside!

[@prizm63]

Ozark trails . I heard good and bad , I myself LOVE the A frame tent being limited on my lifting. I found this tent and air mattress works. Thanks

[@Trapster99]

Tough to review an entire companies product line in one video.
But, that brief overview was important and all I really needed to know. The company was once run by experienced, and enthusiastic outdoor experts, it was then sold, then sold again. Now, they just want to make money.

[@andreasweber7828]

No purchase , no problem. Solved. You wouldn’t believe how many MSR gear items I’ve found in mountain cabins or on trail while hiking the GR20 last year. Basically gear that’s been left behind by the owners. Their tent pegs however are ace

[@PhilAndersonOutside]

My MSR Hubba Hubba 2 tent is the best/most problematic tent I have ever had. It's light enough, roomy enough, easy to set up, good in shoulder seasons. I also had the taped seams start to come apart (fixed with seam sealer), I had a connector rod jam into a tent shaft (MSR wanted to sell me a part and fix it myself, I sent it to a place called Tent Pole Technologies who fixed it at a very reasonable price). There have also been complaints about the Syclone poles causing splinters, which I have not experienced. This was such an issue I created a RUclips video on this exact tent and it's problems.
I should state I also have an Access tent, and it is fantastic, zero problems. I own Lightning Explore snowshoes, and have had zero problems. I owned the old Pocket Rocket 1 stove and a titanium pot, and had zero problems with heavy use. But there is no question the Hubba Hubba tent has caused me a lot of frustration.

[@Pedenzo]

I replaced my Svea with a Whisperlite....because it was the newest shiny object, work ok for several years....but I am back to using the Svea which I have had to replace the fuel cap gasket once. The Whisperlite usually got maintained or rebuilt at the end of each season. I also have one of MSR's pump filters, bought it in the 80's and it is still going strong with just occasional filter element replacement.

[@thomasmusso1147]

👍

[@00Klingon]

I've not owned many MSR products until recently but the ones I own have been pretty good. The Pocket Rocket 2 works very well, it's a little noisy (may indicate less efficiency but boils water faster than many other stoves I own) and the Ground Hog tent stakes have been fantastic, both the large and small varieties. No complaints with those. I've owned enough products from enough companies to know the grass isn't always greener, all manufacturers turn out lemons now and then. That's why I appreciate this channel because it can help me avoid the truly bad products and shop at stores that have good return policies for everything else.

[@darkangelgaming1117]

Cant say I have ever owned any of their products, they never really fit the budget back in the day when I was gearing up. Didn't have any concerns about their gear until I got the run down from you in this video, I appreciate it because a big thing for me is customer service after the sale and being willing to stand behind your product, which it sounds like I would have issues doing with MSR gear. Thank you for the info Luke, I look forward to further company reviews.

[@olliecole7492]

I’ve had the MSr pocket rocket deluxe for a couple of years and it’s never let me down. Great product. Would love to see a review of Rab!

[@kikconzuelo]

Very nice idea Luke! I've never had any MSR products but always looked up to the brand considering it top notch, now that I know about the service I'll take my cautions, I stay with companies that solve the customer's doubts and issues, they're the ones that know s** happens in the outdoors and know that gear failures sometimes are nobody's fault. Stay safe, take care!

[@jlt131]

take it with a grain of salt though - I've had nothing but good experiences with MSR's customer service. just remember you'll hear more bad things than good about a company because people don't speak up as much when something goes right as when something goes wrong.

[@joegajewski7057]

I have a Hubba Hubba NX that has the seams taped. I have used it for years and it continues to be a great shelter.

[@SarahFennPhotos]

My first Hubba NX the seam tape was peeling off when it arrived. Replaced without quibble by the shop I bought it from but after a some very light use and then sitting in storage for a while I discovered the tent pole cord had degraded. After that I lost confidence in the tent not failing somehow on a trip. Although painfully expensive, my go to now is Hilleberg. My 7 year old bombproof Akto is as pristine as the day I bought it, so when I replaced the Hubba I went for their Anaris for the summer months. Having confidence in my gear is key

[@azclaimjumper]

That Hilleberg Akto is something you'll want to WILL to a relative as it will outlast you & the next owner.
I own a Hilleberg Enan.

[@SarahFennPhotos]

@@azclaimjumper it's true :D

[@Tiggs004]

I have an MSR whisperlite international stove (home modded to a universal) and it has performed flawlessly over the years with tons of use (exery day for three months on a trip this year in all weather's) , I trust it so far.. I will continue to watch this company review series on RUclips, make sure to do updates to each review, thanks

[@alexmorgan3435]

I have the same stove and 100% agree with you. A great stove.

[@davegrove795]

I’ve only used pocket rocket and water filter. Used both for many years, zero fails!

[@MrWand73]

I spent 120 NIGHTS car camping in an MSR Elixir 4 during the summer of 2022, travelling around Scotland. I had 2 weeks of very heavy rain in Ullapool and it didn't let in a drop. It was pitched on a campsite there exposed to the sea and had some extremely strong winds but it stood firm. The only problem I had was a pole hub at one crossing point broke, probably more to do with me forcing the poles than a design error. MSR sent me a replacement part within the week, for free!
It's a truly awesome tent and although I don't use it for my current backpacking trips, it's unlikely I'll sell it as I have so many good memories, and photos.
The only obvious improvement for me would be better stakes.

[@ItsGoodintheWoods]

Great subject material. I have had great experience with MSR over the years. I have seen their Lightning ascent snowshoes in action for 13 years now. Lots of use in the mountains of New England. Those shoes have made hundreds of ascents over the years. Still going strong. Been using the pocket rocket 2 for about 10 years. Never let me down. Bought the FreeLite 1 solo tent last year and love it. I hope for continued good experiences with the gear. I have been considering getting the Access 2, been doing a lot of research on it, that is actually why I watched this video. I am a bit surprised by your findings. I guess that is what happens to companies that get bought, reworked and sold for a profit. Quality tends to suffer more often than not. It is unfortunate. Another great video Luke

[@jimw3484]

I purchased an Elixir 3 in 2018 and just recently asked the warranty dept if I could get a 10 piece set of their Groundhog stakes to replace the original stakes that were standard tent stakes. They sent out 12 of the Groundhog stakes without hesitation (mind you these are not cheap either. A set of 12 runs like $60). I found calling the warranty dept and speaking to a rep explaining whatever your issue is, then being polite, but firm in not taking no for an answer is a great way to get results. I have a few MSR products and so far seem to be very good. (Windburner stove, dishes, utensils, etc). I enjoy your channel and your non bias approach. How about reviewing Osprey. I own a 75L pack. Like em a lot. Thanks!

[@connermorton]

Had a terrible experience with them recently, trying to get my MSR Hubba zipper repaired. They charged me and sent me back the tent exactly the way it was when I sent it in there. Not a good company anymore. Thank you so much for making this honest video

[@andrzejwojcik47]

I own MSR hubba hubba nx for quite a few years already and never had any issues with leaking or condensation. Although it is 3 season tent I used it in all 4 seasons. It survived thunderstorms, snowstorms, few days non-stop heavy rain days, super high winds and absolutely nothing happened! I always use dedicated footprint with the tent for extra safety specially when I set it on rocky or gravel ground. It is easy to set up with few different configurations depends on where you go and weather conditions. It is absolutely fantastic.

[@bblakemore15]

It's the same with all companies. You'll get good and bad products the problem is people only remember the bad

[@jmurray0482]

The only MSR products I have are a Whisperlite stove and set of non-stick pans. Both about 15 years old and still in working order. I'd like a company review on OneTigris next.

[@chrisb9279]

This is the most recent video, so I'm including it here. I just wanted to say how wonderful your videos are, aside from how clean, wholesome, and relaxing they are, you have some sweet taste in music.
There is no doubt that you seem to have a talent for the choice and use of music. So many times I have just had your videos on a loop on a side screen. However, I have found myself drawn to the video by the impeccable choice and timing of your choice of music. And many times I have ended up googling a lyric just to add a tune you are playing to my favourites list.
Keep it up, always appreciated.

[@ghostdog7306]

glad to see you doing the comparison/overview of outdoor companies. I had an old original thermostat the small one develop a leak that I couldn't find after many years of use. they replaced it no charge with a new blemished one, it's still going strong. another larger thicker thermostat had a leak I couldn't find I returned it, it was repaired for a fee, no complaints. I own one of their 200 ft Wing tarps, it's about 10 years old, no problems, love it. it's the old Moss design of a heavy polyester, but not rip stop material is my only complaint. I hear people complaining about the newer lighter versions. for car camping it's great for our family

[@bobv7753]

Finishing my 2nd year of camping with the MSR hubba hubba tent. I purchased at REI so I was well covered for a year if something went wrong. The tent met all of my need requirements. After much research (including your investigation on like MSR tents) I was concerned with leakage. After purchasing the tent I immediately tested it for water intrusion. I evenly drenched it with a hose & yes it leaked. Not bad but leaked. Rather than take it back to REI I called the MSR support line. I immediately received personal assistance. Yes, they stated that since the initial leak issue they are now factory seam sealing. Since mine had only minor leaks & was factory seam sealed they recommended sealing again. Within 3 days I had a bottle of seam sealer from MSR. I seam sealed the tent & retested. After 20 minutes of a heavy hose drenching & putting it up in 2 major rain storms I had no leaks. I've been using the tent ever since. I'm very happy with the tent performance & MSR customer service so far. I have other MSR products with no issues. This tent was my most expensive purchase. Overall no negatives to report. As for seam sealing I am unaware of any tent that doesn't need seam sealing during its life. Durability depends on use or abuse. MSR has my trust so far. Helps buying from REI with the warranty to be sure. Excellent company evaluation video! Thx & keep em coming! Bob V

[@kendelaurier3080]

I definitely agree with but from a company you can return stuff too. I love REI. The one I go too has a very good return policy. If it’s within a year they don’t question anything

[@dl1st]

I have a hubba and a hubba hubba for 5 years now and all I can say, never had a problem with them. Replaced once the rubber band in the poles but the rest is fine. I like how fast to pitch for a single person. Use them every year on bike trips.

[@dominiquerochette1485]

I purchase the mini works something like 20 years ago. Love it. At one point the caoutchouc valve ripped and i contact MSR asking about the possibility to purchase the valve. To my surprise they send me the part no question ask. Last year my son broke the handle and i had to change the filter cartridge. Since the cartridge is 2/3 of the price of a new unit i decided to purchase a new unit. Now i have spare parts when i go camping, fishing and hunting.

[@alexmorgan3435]

I have had mixed experiences with MSR. Have several of their tents MSR Hubba Hubba HP which has been good, Exlixir 2 and Hubba NX have all been good. However I bought one of their Windboiler stoves which refused to light brand new out of the box. I know how to use them as this was my 2nd. My first one which worked brilliantly, was stolen. Earlier this year a pole broke on my Hubba NX whilst camping on Gran Canaria. I managed to make a repair. When home I emailed them, they wanted me to send in the whole pole set for repair. I wasn't keen as I needed the tent again in a few weeks for another cycle tour and they could not guarantee that they could have it back to me in time. I would also have to pay expensive carriage costs. Eventually after quite a few emails back and forth with their warranty department, they agreed to send me out a replacement pole section and new shock chord as pretty much all the shock chord in the pole set had inexplicably stretched and denatured so much so it was useless as it was no longer elastic. I had only used the tent twice in 4 years for a total of about 3 weeks. Anyway with a replacement pole section and new shock chord I made a full repair and my Hubba NX tent was good to go again.
I also have several other MSR stoves a Pocket Rocket which has been fine for the few times I've used it, a Whisperlite which has also been good until I got a Whisperlite Universal International which has been brilliant. I use it most days to cook my meals. It's a great stove. Powerful and simmers on low heat really easily. Lots of control. A+++.
So on reflection on the whole I am happy with their products and customer service although I tend not to push my equipment to the limits, except the Whisperlite Universal International which gets regular use. With their other products I own, I am more an occasional user than every day, but when I do use any equipment I expect a lot from it, for it to perform faultlessly especially if it's premium product that I have paid top dollar for.

[@seantaylormtb7170]

I have the MSR freelite 2 and had no issues so far after about 18months. I will say if i'm lazy/sloppy with how i pitch the tent it makes a difference (of course) and could see how it might be compromised in extreme conditions. But, they are premium products, and if you sell premium it should come with premium service. That's warranties, customer service, replacing faulty gear etc. I would hesitate from buying more of their products after seeing/reading numerous reviews like this regarding customer service. Really good vid as always thanks.

[@MarkSixFilms]

Overall I’ve had a pretty good experience with MSR. Their dragon fly stoves, Hubba Hubba 2P tent + gear shed and their snow shoes have all proven very reliable for me. The Guardian purifier is great except for it’s leaking. MSR didn’t have any sort of fix for it and didn’t seam to have a plan on improving it further down the line. Had to make a special gasket to stop the water from leaking. Pretty abysmal on that front.
Other than that, I would for sure purchase from them again. You just have to do your research and really know what you’re buying before you pull the trigger. Every brand makes some crap.

[@MaddBaggins]

I really only have 1 complaint with MSR. Back in the 90's, I bought a great water filter from Sweetwater. There weren't a ton of options then and it was a great filter for my budget. Fast forward some years and MSR bought Sweetwater. They continued the Sweetwater filter under the MSR line, just changed the color scheme. Great! I could still get replacement elements from MSR.
Fast forward some more years and MSR discontinued the Sweetwater line. That left me with a filter I loved and have used since the 90's but no further support. I had a small stash of replacement elements so I was good to go for a while.
I thought long and hard about a replacement filter for my pack. There's so many options available now. I eventually landed on Grayl. Super happy with it.
So, not really a complaint about MSR products, just disappointment that they killed my favorite filter after buying them out. Other than that, I have a couple MSR Dromedary bags from 20yrs ago. They are still great water bags.

[@chadake1528]

I have a 1 person elixir tent from MSR, and it has held up extremely well!!! I am a Scout leader, so I camp more than most average people. Since owning this tent it has been on 12 regular weekend campouts (2 nights) & 2 week long summer camps (7 nights). I decided to purchase this tent due to the dimensions and the previous good luck I have had with this brand (stoves, water filters, cookware). I understand how the luck of the draw works out, but for myself I cant say enough good things about this company.

[@lynnwark5238]

I bought a new MSR Windburner stove a year ago and found it to be efficient and reliable for use when camping on my motorcycle. most foods were in boiling pouch format and the hot water left over after cooking made for excellent tea.

[@lisapirkkala9247]

I purchased the Hyperflow filter and my friends complained that the filtered water tasted fishy, so we started using a different one. What I didn't like about it was all the moving parts, gaskets, etc, although it worked great attaching to a nalgene bottle. I purchased new filters for it but went for the Trailshot which was a great choice. Light and easy to clean, I like the tube with the macro filter. I also have the MSR pocket rocket deluxe and it is my go-to stove for backpacking even though it's more weight than my ultralight Ion. So I have good reviews of the company. But I won't purchase a shelter. Weight and price is a factor and I have a friend who has the hubba bubba and it leaks. The Nature hike Mongar 2 is supposed to be the same design as the hubba bubba, and I have that tent, but I stayed completely warm and dry in the Mongar, so I don't think its a design flaw but a materials or waterproof issue with the MSR. thank you for this review series! I hope the company will take care of the issues.

[@64TMS]

Please review Mountainsmith as a company.
My first experience with this company was a 15L fannypack. I've been rockhounding with it for 25 years and it's carried 20# rocks, driftwood, wood burls and it's ready to go right now. I have had nothing but superb quality and company response has been great. Replaced an entire backpack when I tore it at one of the pockets . They wanted to see if they had an issue with their stitching or something similar. Super supportive company.

[@SJ-fx6td]

I was affected by the Xtrem Shield disaster, taking out a brand new Mutha Hubba with my young son to a state park. It completely failed during the heavy rain in the night, leaking you would not believe it. Sent the pictures to MSR and was told it is condensation and I did not pitch it correct! No mentioning of the issue with their seal technology. Only found out about this by researching in the internet. I sealed the tent now myself and now it works well. I own several other products from MSR and they work very well (Pocket Rocket, Groundhogs etc). However, when I needed a smaller 1-2 person tent it was not a MSR and I will never buy a MSR tent again...

[@goodredman]

Revisit Colemans. I remember couple months back you mentioned they’re expensive tents. As a kid in the 80s and 90s their products were pretty good unfortunately mostly buying from Wally world. But yeah I would be interested to hear your thoughts on Colemans over the decades and may be what you’ve gained from viewers feedback.

[@marshallmccoy6573]

I’ve used the Miniworks EX water filter for over a decade, but much more so over the last 3 years. I’ve never had a single issue with the water filter; never been sick from the water it filtered. I did buy the maintenance kit a month ago which replaces all of the o-rings and wearable items ($20). My buddy also has one and it’s been trouble free as well. I purchased mine in 2016.

[@CristianBodnari]

I have the MSR Mutha Hubba 3 person tent and it has been great even in heavy rain. It is my favourite tent that I ever had.

[@reckon6493]

I've purchased 3 MRS products: 1) Pocket Rocket stove (gen 1 and gen 2), they've been fine; 2) Evo 22 snowshoes, they've been fine; 3) Gen 1 Mutha Hubba - I bought it new and only used it three times over a span of 8 years. The tent was stored bone dry in a temperature controlled storage room, but when I pulled it out the last time the fly was sticky and unusable. Cascade Designs told me it was out of warranty and that the tent lifespan was appropriate for the product. This was extremely disappointing for a premium product. I haven't purchased an MSR product since.
Contrarily, my Arcteryx Beta jacket fell apart after 8 years (after coming out of a wash). Arcteryx's warranty department admitted that some of their taping methods/products may have been defective during that period of time and replaced it hassle free (after receiving my defective jacket and inspecting it). I've supported them by purchasing multiple clothing pieces ever since.

[@latinpiknee7684]

I have a elixir 3 and it was awesome in a rainstorm at the Delaware seashore. In the morning, there were tents that were wrecked in the campground. My tent was steaked properly and I stayed bone dry without any leaks.

[@lorrieexplores]

Great idea! I would also like to hear about outdoor gear suppliers, like REI and Moosejaw, etc. Do they stand behind their customer service promises? Looking forward to more episodes!

[@mtadams2009]

My experience with REI has been awesome. They do stand behind what they sell.

[@chili1593]

Been an REI member for decades. Their service is legendary. Have also been purchasing from Moosejaw lately and have no issues whatsoever with them either.

[@mikey1942]

Love my pocket rocket deluxe, never had an issue with it, still working like new

[@reginaldwalton]

Wow! I've had my MSR Hubba Hubba tent for over 5 years and not one single issue.

[@stevenwood7131]

I bought a MSR hubba hubba nx. I bought it 2014 I've always packed it away dry. In 2019 The bathtub floor interior became sticky, then I noticed the seam taping began to degrade and flake off. I love MSR, I just wish the quality was better.

[@musingwithreba9667]

I had a HUGE problem with the MSR Trail Shot filter. It failed while I was out on a 3 day trip, and I had only used it for 1 overnight prior. It took MSR customer support forever to reply to emails and voice mails, I sent it to their warranty warehouse, and THEY SENT IT BACK. and tried to tell me they sent me a brand new one 🤪 I was not happy. I've also had 2 Thermarest XLites pads fail on me.
Inexplicably I just bought a Pocket Rocket Delux because I'm going out for a late fall multi-day trip, and it's *supposed* to be more efficient in the cold than my usual BRS knock-off. My friend will have her Jetboil with her, in case the MSR fails I can use hers.
I don't really trust MSR or any Cascade Desgn company, but the Soto Windmaster is $100 here in Canada and the MSR is "only" $70, so 🤔 if it fails tho, I'll be returning it for sure. There are mixed reviews, so we'll see.

[@tinbarnranch]

Great idea Luke! Maybe add a way to vote on these companies/products. Only real users can give factual data. Any product I purchase these days gets roughly an hour of review investigation. This is why you channel to me is so very important. Honesty and integrity.

[@Winnie122459]

I purchased a stove and some other items with great results. Sad to hear that they would send out tents that they knew leaked. Once someone is stiffed by a company it results in a number of other people hearing about this. Keep up the good work and keep the video's coming!

[@ericasaviano4093]

I have a MSR Elixir 3 tent purchased in 2017 and unfortunately, it has a VERY leaky (useless) rainfly (seams flaked apart...was faded/discolored though it was stored properly and barely used). I did not use it in a rainstorm until it was past warranty, unfortunately, so have not yet had luck getting help from Cascade designs or Moosejaw (where I purchased it). You would not even know there was a rainfly on the tent it leaks so bad. I tried seam sealing it myself and applying a new waterproof coating....didn't help. - - - - I'm surprised to see others post the opposite, that this tent kept them dry in crazy storms. I have a theory that Cascade designs ships out a portion of their products to be manufactured/assembled etc. elsewhere to save on cost. But they make sure to oversee enough themselves that they still end up with 4 out of 5 star average ratings on products. I just don't know how else this tent works great for 5 years for one person...and leaks like a cotton sheet right out of the box for another person. It's ridiculous.

[@mes6276]

Love my pocket rocket though.

[@ReasontoLiveAdventures]

Me too.

[@toddtabor5745]

Me three😁

[@craigwardell8282]

Me four

[@brandonwilliams2431]

Me 5

[@chriscutts6942]

Me 6

[@ernestbuckstarr]

I research a lot of tents and shelters. I rarely find any bad reviews of MSR tents. I do find many many good reviews. The Hubba series seems to be the most reviewed tent on RUclips by far. It’s hard to find a bad review.

[@andres16op]

I bought the updated version of the FreeLite 2 this past year and it has held up well, no complaints, but I still need to fully test it’s performance in the rain. The price and weight seemed to make sense in my situation. I did see the comments about seam sealing and leakage for the pervious versions of all their popular tents.

[@InimitaPaul]

I’ve only ever purchased a couple of water filter’s from them and they’re fantastic. I have a Hyperflow filter and a Guardian pump filter and they’ve never let me down, I added an inline carbon filter to the Guardian and take it on every trip. I need to sell the Hyperflow having said that.

[@Babel7078]

Now, when you have hit the nail with this topic, we'll be all waiting in line to see where our gear stands. I'll be waiting for the NEMO tents. I have just got a NEMO Hornet 2P, and if you had reviewed this tent in the past, I would like to have that link very much! Thanks !

[@marksmithj9892]

I’ve used MSR products extensively for the past 30 years. I’ve never had one issue. All MSR products I’ve used have been flawless!
Can’t comment on customer service…never needed it.

[@jaspurr6173]

Just like Coleman ‘THE’ mainstay of Camping, Hiking & Backpacking products in the past, and gradually over time their products have gone downhill, but they still ‘somehow’ make some outstanding products to this day, in fact top-of-the-line products at premium prices. That is why Walmarts brand Ozark Trail has become popular, at ‘affordable’ prices, to the point that you can buy 2 of the same product, and keep 1 for spare parts. That is because models change with time, and getting spare parts is almost impossible.

[@benjaminlesue1372]

I owned an MSR Fusion 3 tent back in the day. It was a great tent. I sold it to upgrade my tent and bought a Big Agnes. My pocket rocket has been reliable, and my cookset is awesome. I've been looking at the Access 2 tent, but the negative reviews scare me. I don't want to spend nearly a grand on a tent and be worried about its quality. I'll stick to stoves and cookware from MSR.

[@militaryflyboy22]

Great idea for a set of videos. Ive only ever bought a pocket rocket from MSR. Had good luck with it so far. Will keep my eye out in the future for more info about the company

[@0113mountainman]

Got the Trailshot filter, never had an issue. Although I always filter clean flowing water, this helps to maintain the life. Got eye on the Hubba NX 1 man tent, the price is putting me off though.

[@christopherrosing4473]

The MSR coffee filter changed my life. I use it at home everyday. The flavor is better than any other coffee making method that I've tried. So easy and quick. I love my MSR coffee filter!

[@nfinnigan]

I have 1 & 2 person Huba tents and used for about 5 years now and still working great, fingers crossed I will get another 5 years plus. I think that if anyone buys expensive product and it's not what they expected, they will complain about it, which they should do, but when you buy cheap and it goes wrong, they don't complain because they maybe half expected it not to be great in the first place.

[@MightyMidgey]

I’ve purchased quite a few MSR products over the years, primarily stoves and cookware, and love their products in general and find they tend to be long lasting. I had a reliability issue as well with my pocket rocket deluxe late last year, and the piezo quit working. So I reached out to their warranty department to request a repair or just advice via email. Still haven’t heard back from them. Luckily I was able to fix the piezo myself after reviewing some online tutorials….

[@a.4891]

I have the MSR Hubba NX 1 , I like the weight of the tent and the packing size. Also very easy to set up, but think the quality should be better for the price. Have used the tent a few times for more day walks. With the last multi-day hike I had had a few days of rain in a row. The tent was leaking, at the end of my walk the coating came off my indoor tent. When I got home I cleaned it. and let the tent dry, but already noticed that the fabric of my inner tent felt sticky and there were flakes of the coating in my inner tent. I always store my tent loosely in a laundry bag. I haven't had this before with other tents from other brands.

[@flightographist]

It would be interesting to see a cross reference piece on the top shelf manufacturers and their warranty service, a comparison of complaints and outcomes.

[@IMDARKFIRE007]

My goodies with no issues yet are UCO, best candle lanterns out there, especially when converted to oil. Helinox, expensive but well worth it for the quality and durability (my chair just WON'T die). Fjallraven, quality clothing and the Abisko tarp is NO joke. Also whoever makes the desert walker cot, that thing is nice and light enough to backpack. It's not a company, but you can NOT go wrong with military surplus....from the MSS to the ICS to the Molle 2 ruck. Good stuff.

[@rstar88105]

I really like my MSR Elixer 2 tent. It held up well to winter backpacking down into the Grand Canyon. There was a 50 MPH rainstorm that I was happy to be in that tent.
I do wish they offered the tan rainfly for it in the US. It looks like the red and grey is a US only option where from European retailers are selling it in a tan rain fly that blends in better with the surroundings.

[@cameronmcmaster4323]

How well has it lasted up until this point? I am considering buying the exact same model.

[@rstar88105]

Very good! There is another RUclips channel where a couple height through the GR11 in the Pyrenees mountains with this tent, and it held up through that whole, hiking experience great. They were the reason why I bought this tent to begin with. It is worth noting that this tent is not ultralight, and it is not heavy either but that is the trade off with a durable tent.

[@delta6789]

I have an MSR Reactor Stove, which I've used for the last few years and it hasn't let me down yet, so my views of MSR were generally positive until this video. I was actually thinking of buying an MSR tent but perhaps a little more due diligence on my part will be required given the issues you highlighted, so thanks for the heads up.

[@BerlinBikes]

I have an Elixir 2 and am very satisfied. A great tent. Would like to buy the Hubba Hubba but unfortunately it's a bit too expensive

[@Mart687]

I got one as well. Nice attention to detail and it looks and feels like a quality product. But a buddy had one and used it a lot. Not weekly but a lot. After 1 year it started leaking on the fly fabric, not the seams. Nothing could be done about it and it was a write off. Btw he looks after his gear so no storing it damp/dirty. If he has to pack it wet, he will dry it out at home. Maybe he was unlucky.

[@BerlinBikes]

@@Mart687 if he still has it he should take a look at GearAid Tent Fabric Sealant. Worked very well on the fly for a friend

[@lukerumsey516]

Elixir 2 is a wonderful tent. I have the 3 person and it’s been good everytime through wind, rain, and snow. Even in a terrifying 90 mph wind storm one night with trees snapping everywhere. It was fully staked and taught as possible that night of course

[@Mart687]

@@BerlinBikes I'm not sure if he still has it. But I'll ask next time I talk to him.

[@buddycamp_]

I'm also using msr, but I was considering another model. It's light and prevents gusts of wind. I think this is the best tent for me. Thank you for the detailed product description. I can trust Msr and use it

[@kvangork]

My multi-decade experience with MSR has varied by product. Stoves, cookware, and snowshoes have all been rock solid quality for me, but my friends and I had a series of poor quality tents and unhelpful customer service back in the 2010-2015 era, so we no longer buy those from MSR.
Strength and honor Luke, and thanks for all your hard work here on the channel.

[@MultiTaraka]

I really like the concept of this video, the only problem I see is, it is not necessarily a bad thing statistically speaking, if there a many many complaints about ine company. Let me explain the best I can in english. It could simply be, that MSR products are the most bought products, therefore a failure rate and complaints rate of for example 5% would result in a huge number of complaints.
Now a company that sells way less products might have a complaints rate of 30% but due to being bought less, the absolute number of complaints might still be waaaaay lower than with MSR. Therefore deducing the percentage of complaints and failures based on the absolute number of complaints is impossible without knowing the individual sales numbers. It could just be, that MSR sells massive amounts of products. And this is not even taking into account, that maybe your viewers skew towards one thing or another, for example maybe they have more sway in a different market or whatever. Still great video!

[@MultiTaraka]

Of course, that doesn't in any way excuse bad customer service and so on

[@jonallan392]

Have sent 3 items in for warranty issues to Cascade Designs over past 10 years or so. Haven't had any problems yet, issues resolved. My pocket rocket 2 just went in for a loose arm. I'll keep you posted.
They were very nice on the phone.

[@rwun283]

Overall, good information. For other review suggestions, used a Eureka timberline for years. Loved it. Looks like they still make the same tent, 40 years later, exactly the same. Another... (I'll catch flak for this,) is Ozark Trails (OT). Starting a family, I bought an used OT, 2 room cabin tent, 20 years ago. No issues till it ripped this year. Purchased the upgraded, instant up, version of the same from OT. So far, only issue was a leak at one of the door zippers (downpour conditions).

[@normanmallory2055]

I’ve used , carried into the backcountry and mountains in the Olympic mountains and never had failure with one MSR stove with my oldest being over 34 years !
I own several of their stoves now !
I trust them every time I go out !

[@simonward4520]

I am from a engineering and development background, look at it like this, there will be multiple teams looking after different products ranges. Designers and engineers come and go hence the good the bad. Bad warranty is no excuse.

[@triel77]

My contribution for the series name: Outdoor Stuff Syndicate Overview
What about NEMO next? They are a high $$$$ Outdoor Stuff Syndicate. An Overview of a company with a history, parent company information, best products and worst, customer service experiences, and warranty. That seems like a really good series! I have heard that when people have bad experiences, they tend to tell more people then when they have good experiences. That seems even more true in the days of online social networking, in that rather than telling an average of 6 people (pre-internet days) they are telling everyone they know at the same time.

[@kajakawa]

I have been a MSR user for over 30 years. I worked for REI from 2000-2010. I noticed the change in MSR when they were purchased by Cascade Designs. MSR made absolutely bombproof gear before that. Afterwards, product quality dropped. My experience with their gear has been hit-or-miss since then. My Reactor Stove is amazing. On the other hand, I've had significant issues with my Autoflow XL filter. They were unable or unwilling to help me with that.