This theory is pretty good, but I think I can fill in some gaps. The "Elden ring"is apart from the "Greater Will". The goal of the greater will is to take control of the Elden Ring, the Lands between and consequently everything. I belive that Merika brought the elden ring to the lands between, or discovered how to manipulate it. This change sent out a message to the deep void of the universe and drew in the greater will. Where a golden star fell to the earth. A star that would be the elden beast and the raw material to create Radigan. A perfect mimic of herself, or perfectly herself.
When it comes to Empirians and what that means. I belive that Merika and Radigan having seen the inflictions of their first two children(most likely for only having one soul);Sought out the help of Renalla who was the authority on soul sourceries at the time. And Renalla assisted by lending a part of her own soul in order to complete Rani. Thus making her Rani's mother
Why Marika shattered the Elden Ring is because she was driven to the brink. What drove her to the brink: 1) at first, her intent was to search the depths of the Golden Order, but then she found that the Golden Order is broken to the core; 2) she won a lot of wars and established peace, but even then none of her children or stepchildren can succeed her for too long; 3) she was about to be merged with Radagon and there’s nothing she can do about it, except to shatter the Elden Ring.
Fia's ending, or "The Age of the Duskborn", I believe, is not simply a reintroduction of Death into The Lands Between. You've already released Destined Death by defeating Maliketh, so Death has already been returned to the natural cycle. Fia, throughout her questline, is a defender of individuals who "Live in Death" or what we cosnider, undead. Since Death is locked away, we can only consider those who "Live in Death" to be those who refuse to return to the Erdtree for rebirth, and have long been persecuted by the Golden Order for this choice. Fia wishes to end this persecution and allow those who "Live in Death" to be, not only common, but encouraged. So, in essence, Death would not be the end, rather the beginning of your new eternal life.
I'm shocked at how many people miss this, returning Destined Death to the Elden Ring happens regardless of the ending, Fia explicitly says her goal is to integrate Those who Live in Death into the natural order
@@emilyadams1844 yeah, it seems like "those who live in death" are every unfortunate fucker who happens to be near a death root, i would not be very happy to be a rotten ass skeleton
@@emilyadams1844 Yeah it's not actually something they choose, which is a big writing problem with her quest and ending IMO. Her whole thing is supposed to be an “order of the many and the meek” but you don’t really get that feel from the undead in the game. Becoming one of Those Who Live in Death doesn’t really seem to be correlated with bringing about justice for an oppressed underclass or something, they just seem to be generic undead that rise out of graves. Outside of Rogier deliberately becoming Death Blighted to study it, undeath doesn’t seem to be voluntary, and doesn’t correlate at all with social class or discrimination in life. The Deathroot sprouts up in random places as a result of Godwyn’s corpse being at the roots of the Erdtree, and the Tibia Mariners go around spreading it and bringing people back from the dead by force. Neither Ranni or Godwyn deliberately created undeath. It was basically a cosmic accident resulting from Ranni’s scheme to kill her body but not her soul. The way Fia seems to present it, her whole scheme with the undead is meant to solve or a social problem or injustice - but the undead are basically a glitch in reality that she turns into a “feature”. The problem being solved isn’t a social one related to society in the Lands Between, it’s a cosmic accident that on the whole is not really going to change much for most people.
I do like the optional endings based on our unique descessions that we make along the way. But its interesting how even still the endings are still bound to the causality that is change itself.
There was cut content where Malenia calls you "Sweet Tarnished, my dearest companion" what if there was an ending where you help Miquella claim the Elden Ring, and possibly marry Melania? Kind of like Ranni's ending but instead of magic and the moon its holiness and the Haligtree, I'd personally prefer this ending over any other, since unlike Ranni, there can be no argument for Miquella being evil in any way, whereas Ranni could be considered as a simple regime change and nothing more
Ranni wish is to remove the influence of the greater will from everyone, a time of stars would start because the people are not going to be blinded by the erdtree, the golden order looses all the power, and probably, all the outer gods stop getting involved.
@@lorenzmaut3708 Yes, but lets think, is the removal of any and all kind of faith really a good thing? What if Ranni simply wishes to become the god of The Lands Between, as opposed to the noble cause of wishing to protect it fron the influence of other gods, either a grasp for power or a noble goal, we cant really tell which
That would be a better ending tbh. Malenia and Miquella are actually decent enough, with what their reasoning for the creation of the Haligtree being. Miquella wanting to remove all influences, and would actually probably fix the lands in between. Also, Malenia consort is nice-o.
Furthermore with Goldmask's ending, ever noticed how the Erdtree turns a more brilliant form of gold, pure gold, some might even say unalloyed gold. Plus we see the mending rune around the Elden Ring almost as to protect it. Lastly, we know from the haligtree (likely a sapling of the Erdtree) that the Greater Will's influence can be removed from its trees. So I think it's not much of a stretch to believe that the perfected order removes the medaling of all the gods including the outer gods
The Elden Ring by definition is an artifact of the Greater Will, any Order actuated through it is pro-Greater Will by definition. Miquella is not actually opposed to the Greater Will (we know this from his cut ending where he replaces Marika) and there is nothing to suggest the Haligtree removes its influence
@@soarel325 I mean, the Haligtree isn’t gold at all. And we don’t get any indication that anyone associated with the Golden Order (even Gideon) really knows what’s going on there, right?
@@soarel325 You can see an image of much more complex Elden Ring in Farum Azula. Which tell us that Elden Ring existed even in times of dragons and crusible, before Elden Beast arrived. So Elden Ring is definitelly NOT creation of greater will, it was just taken over and assimilated.
I'm not sure of it, but why chosen Empyreans (Marika, Malenia, Miquella and Ranni) are all trying to avoid or destroy the Order? Marika shattered the ring, Ranni is traveling to other worlds away from the Order, Malenia had this scarlet rot problem, which represented other goddess and Miquella basically created another Great Tree for cure his sister. What a self destructive will the Order has...
I've always liked Fia's ending the most due to it's obvious inspirations from Norse mythology. Godwyn, the golden son, is killed. He is then locked beneath the roots of a great tree until the time is ripe again for him to step forth and lead the world into a new era. This is almost one-to-one what happens to the Norse god Baldur. Baldur was the most beloved god of the Asir, who killed by a close member of his family. His soul then wandered the roots of Yggdrasil. Baldur's death, like with Godwyn's, ushered in an age of strife, until his resurrection after Ragnarok. Godwyn's rebirth as a greatrune would create an era of life within death. Death in Elden Ring is described as being a state of painless bliss, so Godwyn's ascension could possibly wipe away all suffering. Besides, I really think the ending really has a nice symmetry to it. Godwyn's death was the catalyst for The Shattering, and his return to the world would mark it's end.
I don't think undeath is comparable to bliss, rather oblivion. If Goldwyn continued to infect the roots, then ultimately every being would end up undead and the cycle of life and death would come to a halt. Which is one way to disrupt the golden order, but is it really a good one?
"Baldur's death, like with Godwyn's, ushered in an age of strife, until his resurrection after Ragnarok" bruh I can't believe I just had God of War Ragnarok potentially spoiled for me in an elden ring comment section
@@ethanwashington6789 I mean, if you know anything about Norse mythology, the endgame plot twist of Baldur becoming vulnerable by a mistletoe arrow is obvious.
I thought it was pretty obvious that Marika was rebelling against the Greater Will, despite her vassal status. Why else would she shatter the Ring? And specifically after Godwyn, her favorite child, is killed.
The other reason she finally managed to shatter the Elden Ring is because she was driven to the brink. That Godwyn was killed, should be a valid reason for Marika to be depressed. But, it doesn’t picture the whole story. What I found to complete the story: after defeating Malenia, Gideon will mention to the Tarnished about the Queen’s sorrows in regard to the Haligtree of being a husk, and that Miquella was kidnapped. Then, you can find the Golden Epitaph just outside of Leyndell, in Auriza’s Hero Grave, which paints a picture of a personal relation between Miquella and Godwyn, aside from only being Marika’s sons. Miquella and Godwyn are Marika’s best biological sons, given that the Omen twins are not acceptable to the Golden Order. But then those two sons are also the ones who left her side - Godwyn died from Ranni’s plot and Miquella created the Haligtree to cure Malenia. Marika could still hold herself from shattering the Elden Ring, except that she finally realized the fact of her whole family after elevating their status to demigods.
Yeah this whole video feels like a broken record, just detailed descriptions of things we already know with occasional cool thoughts like "what if the Elden Ring was with Marika for longer"
I think she was rebelling long before that. I believe she was responsible for the first burning and that she created the gloam-eyed queen. She left the tree as radagon after the burning because she thought she was free. She returned when she realized the outer god had not been slain with the burning and was made into a puppet before hewg could build a weapon capable of slaying the god.
Lands Between seems to me like a testing ground for Outer Gods. Place where they test orders and races and individuals that they will later perfect and implement somewhere else.
I like the idea that each of us, as players, is another “universe” in which the Greater Will has influence and in which we enact our own change. Kind of how the Lord of Cinder was technically the amalgamation of all the Ashes (players) who came before
@@malikmarshall5550 The final boss of Dark Souls 3 was called the Soul of Cinder. It was an amalgamation and reflection of popular builds and playstyles crafted by players in DS1 and would switch between them in random phases. Additionally, its arena was warped and isolated, with various semi-recognisable buildings and landscapes folding in towards the First Flame and curving around it as though it were a black hole sucking them in. Its this patchwork imagery that lets us draw a line to the Erdtree, the Lands Between and its own bizarrely patchwork nature.
Miyazaki said “The Eternal champion” was inspiration for Elden Ring. I highly recommend reading the synopsis. You will see a lot of the inspiration behind the story of the Tarnished, and it may even provide answers…
It's one of the elements that make me think that Marika isn't the first god to serve the Greater Will, and then reject it. That the Dragon God was to the dragons what Marika is to the Golden Order, until they fled, having Placidusax eternally wait for them and forcing the Greater Will to find a replacement in Marika.
@@arcanefire7511 As gold and the title of Elden Lord are both associated with the Greater Will, it's part of why I think the dragons used to follow the Greater Will.
Given that, according to various Japanese translating fans, the Greatree, the great tree and the Erdtree are probably the same thing, that means that the Erdtree has become separated from its roots. Since the Erdtree is tilted and broken, unlike in pantings that depict it in its prime, it seems likely that this severance was caused by the shattering of the Ring. Maybe this is one the reasons, if not the reason, why the Lands Between are folding and cracking and fracturing: without the roots of the Erdtree keeping the lands together, they start reverting to one, by the Law of Regression. This would also mean that Godwyn’s influence spreads through the disconnected roots. It seems likely to me that he’s entombed under the main fracture. Besides, maybe his infection is more metaphysical in nature that it first seems, and the fact these roots are technically dead but alive (due to the lack of Destined Death) is what makes them so conductive to his energy. Hell, this may help in wrapping our heads around Godwyn’s infection in Farum Azula, which is in the sky! Rant over. Peace.
@@SixBeark Thank you for the "good" and for the feedback! You're probably right about the Law of Regression, I called it a rant for a reason. The best thing in this community is giving and receiving all kind of suggestions. Anyway, I think that even removing the Law of Regression from it, my train of thought doesn't become totally invalid. At least until someone points out some fundamental problem in it haha
@@its_nuked Wormfaces, beastmen who live in death and roots with Godwyn’s eyes on them. Either it’s the Rune of Death itself, or it’s Godwyn’s influence like in pretty much all other instances of these occurencea (minus the wormfaces, who are quite ambiguous creatures in themselves).
The location Godwyn was buried in is states the Erdtrees roots, i believe it was the prince of deaths pustules description so it makes sense it would spread easily.
the only issue with your the erdtree is broken and tilted argument is that... there is quite literally a doorway leading into the erdtree and that isn't tilted with the erdtree itself...
For me The Lands Between reminded me of Bolataria from demon's souls. An entire continent cut off from the world by fog; Potentially done so by the greater will.
My biggest disagreement is with your interpretation of Ranni's ending, as I believe that only Ranni and her Elden Lord are leaving the Lands Between, leaving the people behind to create their own path, free of guidance from any higher being. It seems as though you believe that Ranni's moon is a sending gate designed to transport the population to another world, but I believe the moon we see is Ranni's Outer God, the one who would succeed the Greater Will as the guiding force of the world, but whether by its design or Ranni's betrayal, this new guiding force will abandon the Lands Between that those who live there may finally be free from the whims of higher beings, aligning with Marika's perceived goal outlined in the video, banishing not only the Greater Will, but any other Outer God who would seek to shape these lands.
@@juice2307 Ok Socrates, we're talking about a video game that revolves around outer gods and living stars affecting human fate, not the human condition and enlightenment.
If ranni’s ending expels all outer gods from TLB, not just the greater will, it would have major implications for world afterwards. Ex: Malenia,Radahn and possibly all of caelid would be cured of the scarlet rot ( though it wouldn’t affect Radahn much), Mohg would lose connection to the formless mother and by extension Miquella. The flame of ruin could theoretically be extinguished, as it lost its source of power. The great rune’s would obviously lose their power as they are fragments of the Elden Ring ie the greater will. Who knows what else would happen after Ranni’s ending, which is mostly why it’s my favorite. Definitely not because we finally get a maiden :P
I think that’s what the original Japanese implies since there was a mistranslation I believe. Also I don’t think the age of stars ending is a removal of faith, but that the gods (aka the objects of said fate which would be Ranni and the moon) would be far removed from the politics and have less involvement with their people. Marika/Radagon were too involved or as Goldmask says, “fickle”
elden ring is my first soulsgame, and thus my first introduction to this style of community storytelling and lore analysis. It's all so fascinating seeing everyones unique journeys and perspectives of the lore.
I would imagine this is not the first time Marika has been "out of line." Who knows, maybe the greater will sent the Astels to the eternal city in order to break her.
That would implied that Marika, or her faction created the fingerslayer dagger. Dagger that is alike "radagon-sword" from the Elden Beast, which can lead to think that a consort body has been used to create it... maybe a part of Placidusax ?
Very interesting video! The one hang up I have is the idea that the tree is called a "parasite". It acts many times as a care giver, symbolically uplifting the denizens of the Lands Between in a symbiotic relationship. Since playing this game I've always felt like it was about an alien civilization that was colonizing other worlds and offering guidance and membership into a wider scope of civilizations across the vastness of space and between dimensional planes. What you're describing here is a war much the way the United States was born. A Declaration and war for Independence, much like how the American colonies gained independence from the British monarchy that established them. In that case it was because they were being taxed without proper representation, and the original colonies wished to declare themselves as a independent self-sufficient nation. From what you're saying it appears to be a fairly accurate allegory for this, but simply put in a fantasy setting. The greater will is like the ruler of a galactic alien civilization that they wish to not receive help from as they grow into their own thing separate from it, like a bird leaving the nest and flying on it own. Like Ranni's Age of Stars suggests, the "loneliness" of how a child grows up, setting out and taking care of themselves upon reaching adulthood. This is exactly what I think is happening here.
My personal interpretation about the parasite angle is this. There are two parts. There is the physical land of the Lands Between, and there are the people who live there. They are two separate things. This parasite has come from far away, and quite literally infected the literal land of the world. The physical place itself. With the physical *place* being what the Greater Will truely desires. However, the land of Lands Between is protected by those who live there. People will protect their homes, and these homes are on the land. Making the people unknowing defenders of the land of the Lands Between. The Greater Will knows this, and protects itself. It spreads its parasitic claws into the minds of the people. It forms a religion. It forms a group of those protectors and organizes them into a militant force. Pledging their service to their faith, and not dedicating themselves to driving away an extraterrestrial invader. Remember that long before the shattering, the first Elden Lord was a general who took on the entire world to protect the Erdtree, and won. To where there were no more enemies to fight. The greater will started small, and grew in the face of extreme resistance to the ones who lived there before. Until all of those that did not pledge their loyalty, were dead, and therefore no longer a threat. It also helps explain why so many organizations and people who were around since the early days turned their backs on the order and actively fought against it. As time went on, they learned that the Greater Will never loved them. They were just tools. Then once those tools were no longer useful, they were shelved. They were lied to. I feel like the interpretation of a benevolent civilization come to help isn't true. That is the propaganda of the victor trying to paint a picture that sees their true intentions and feelings hidden behind a smile.
@@TheFlipFlopFatality I don't know if that's true. It seems too cynical, even for a Fromsoft game. They know better than that about belief systems that center on nature. Trees are the center of many spiritual beliefs across the world and reflect a connection to nature which is not a malevolent force, but is simply about survival and balance of all living things. I've seen a few theories about the Erdtree being connected to fungus and mushrooms which would be extraterrestrial in origin, but again that is not a parasite. In real world biology it is a symbiotic organism that coexists and helps nurish trees in the soil through their root systems and recycles dead biological matter into its food source. Which in turn gives room for new life to emerge in a completely healthy way. Real forests thrive in this delicate balance which is an essential component of a complex ecosystem. I don't know how much of that translates to the story being presented, but as far as this system goes the state of the world is drastically changed when the balance is tipped one way or another or something is removed. My thoughts on this are that everything in the game is heresay. One person's truth is another person's misunderstanding, and another's total falsehood based only on how they see it. Who knows the actual truth? Words like propaganda are often thrown around in times of war and when personal bias impedes judgement and the ability to look at things objectively. So who really knows the intentions of anyone really?
@@AC-hj9tv I'm not sure if the Erdtree itself is the mushroom but the idea here stems from the coexistence of trees and fungi in an ecosystem that recycles biological matter. My understanding of it comes from the idea of "mother" trees that are an elder tree in a forest that through this process essentially take care of all the other smaller trees though a mycilium fungus network in the soil. It acts like a community that sends messages between root systems, allocates resources to those in need, and even builds defences through toxins to ward off things like pests that may harm them. I'm fairly certain this is a thing that's happening in Elden Ring's world with the miner Erdtrees, Avatars, Miranda flowers, and the giant insects found underground and on Miquella's Haligtree. Check out a video called "The Secret Language of Trees" by the channel Real Science. This is where I'm familiar with and referencing these concepts. :)
I still like the theory that the lands between means the lands between the living world and death, it would make sense why there r so many spirits roaming everywhere and how the tarnished needed to die before coming back to the Lands Between
Wow this makes all sense. Thinking out side the box actually assist in mending all the things that are happening. This also explains who was Radagon - He was the parasite within Marika who wanted the Golden Order to be established and was trying to repair the elden ring but when a tarnished enters the Erd Tree he is forced to take form and fight one last time to save the greater will but he fails and greater will the GOD has to come and save himself and the order he has created. Therefore at the very end we see only the husk of Queen Marika, (I think she died when she shattered the elden ring) broken with only elden ring using the fractured husk as a vessel. She is successful in bringing in change except for the three fingers ending where Melina is challenged to find and put an end to us because three figers should have been heading the calls of another similar GOD like the elden beast who commands the two fingers. Maybe there could an elden beast with two heads who commands three fingers.
I believe The Lands Between are influenced by Irish mythology, particularly the land of Tír na nÓg, have a look into it and you'll see many similarities.
Your idea that Marika shattered the Elden Ring to free herself and the world makes sense. The only interactions we have seen between a Outer God and a god/empyrean has been between Malenia and the Outer God of Rot, and Miquella and the Formless Mother. In both cases the Outer God has overriding the god's/empyreans will to make them their servant. These beings are very insidious and It is likely that Marika shared the same kind of relationship with the Greater Will.
Hey Jake, I do like this theory, but I always thought that “The Lands Between” was always more straightforward than this. Many think that the Lands Between refers to a place between other continents, however I think that we need to think about this vertically as opposed to horizontally. I think it is the Lands Between the Eternal City’s of below, which we can visit in game, and the floating city in the sky, which we can’t visit, but is discussed in various items including ruin fragments. This way the world is more like a sandwich and the Lands Between refers to the land between the great cities above and below.
Good theory, but most likely wrong. ''Between'' refers to places like the land of reeds, the badlands and numen, rather than a tiny temple above, and a city underground.
One of the theories I have that seems to get the most pushback is that Marika and Radagon were not always the same person. Their goals are opposed. Marika shattered the Elden Ring, and Radagon is trying to mend it. I think Marika was made a vessel for the Elden Ring by the Greater Will to enact it's will upon the Land's Between. (I'm not entirely sure what the Greater Will hopes to achieve by this.) In the process, Marika became a goddess, a physical manifestation of the Elden Ring. Somewhere along the line, Marika realized that she was being manipulated by the Greater Will, and "shattered" the Elden Ring. Marika IS the Elden Ring, in a sense, so she shattered herself (hence why she looks broken when we see her.) The Greater Will needed to mend the Elden Ring, so it chose Radagon, a devout follower of the Golden Order, to "mend" the Elden Ring. The Greater Will "mended" the Elden Ring by fusing Radagon and Marika into one being. In fact, I believe that "becoming Elden Lord" actually means fusing with Marika, or at least the Elden Ring itself. In every ending except Ranni's and Shabriri's, we are just fusing with the Elden Ring, with or without some extra runes to tweak the natural laws of the Lands Between. In Shabriri's ending, we are just destroying the Elden Ring, along with the Lands Between. (I'm pretty sure Shabriri is the/a name for the Great Old One that embodies the Frenzied Flame.) I'm not sure exactly what is happening in Ranni's ending. Is Ranni taking the power of the Elden Ring and rebuilding it in her own image? If so, how? Is she just "letting it die", in which case, does she have the power to make her own "Elden Ring" for her new order? Either way, Ranni would have to be IMMENSELY powerful, which would imply that Malenia and Miquella are as well (seeing as they are all Empyreans). On a side note, unless you gather a Mending Rune, or do Ranni's or Shabriri's endings, you get the "Age of Fracture" ending, which implies that we are missing pieces of the Elden Ring. You get this ending, even if you defeat all shard bearers AND awaken their Runes. This means we are missing some Runes. My guess is that the DLC(s) for Elden Ring will add new shard bearers and that collecting them all (and possibly also awakening them) will grant a new ending, where we don't need a mending rune and we don't have a fractured world. What that ending looks like, I don't know.
my thoughts on ranni's ending is that she's attempting to restore free will and worship of the stars to the lands between. like how the spell, ranni's dark moon, will absorb or block oncoming enemy spells, i think the moon that manifests in her ending is meant to absorb or block all influences of outer gods from the lands between.
This reminded me of a theory from destiny 1, about the Traveller and the enemies in the game( sorry I forgot their name). The theories is pretty much about how the Traveller are like a parasite, that give life to a world but will eventually deprived it of it resource and left the world to die, and the enemies are just the inhabitants from the world that the Traveller visited now dying.
It's been a long time since I kept up with destiny but I'm pretty sure that's true because the fallen had met the traveler they had a collapse because of the hive if I remember correctly and the hive had met The traveler I just don't think the cabal met the traveler until their former emperor decided to come to our solar system making his daughter the now empress come there but yeah that's pretty much it.
17:56 YES. I have been saying this since Demon's Souls. In DeS, it explicitly shows you that killing the Old One doesn't release you from the Nexus. You return, seal intact, revived by the Maiden in Black (with a full unique cutscene) to repeat the process, showing that NG+n is canonical to it. Your character collapses to the ground in dejection. DeS has one world connected by archstones, and may or may not be on an archtree, but God itself (the Old One, that is) is a massive tree. In Dark Souls, no matter how many people abandon the First Flame in DS1 to become Dark Lord, the sun will still be in the sky in DS3, meaning other people _did_ continue kindling the flame in your absence. Additionally, the area Ash Lake in DS1 shows us that the world there is built on an archtree, with several others visible (but inaccessible) in the distance. In Bloodborne, the Hunter's Dream has several barren, archtree-esque wooden posts in the distance, which may be trunks. Additionally, no matter how many times we slay the Great Ones across all chalices, _there is always another where they yet live._ Whether we free Gehrman or let him free us, whether or not we become a Great One ourselves, there is still another hunter in another world making their own choices. It's my favorite bit of lore across Miyazaki FromSoft works, oft overlooked.
I like the idea that there's a larger Miyazaki style omniverse and the games take place in different time periods and locations.i think that would explain the existence of archtree like structures in elden beasts room, the hunters dream and varying places in dark souls. I like to think that sekiro is an example of what the world would be like with far less involvement from outer gods of any sort(great ones, outer gods of ER) and before the current races evolution begin to reach godlike power. Bloodborne in my mind was only teleported to via the pain5ing not created by it, qnd 5hose arch trees might act as landmarks to let us know(by their differences) that were nearer to the gods of dreams and such. The golden architecture say we may be closer in Omniversal location to the greater will and its own kin. We also know there's some type of terrain to traverse in the space between multiverses both due to pvp in souls and that the greater will is affecting all our unis from a location far off in the distance.i think that there where it lives is a scource that is referred to by different names wich these entities are born, as we in ER know it the primeval stream. Going off in my previous point of omniverses, I think that the numan race may even be from the dark or demon souls world, wich I think would make sense as we the Tarnished have a rather oddly similar mission and start as the Ashen one. And on time periods, I like to think all such ages are bound to happen in a cycle very similar to dark souls natural cycle, maybe regardless rannis goal would come to be with the movement of faith and their gods losing face, something akin to Ragnarok is bound to happen in like fias ending either before or after, the specifics just change. The continuance of the order is like the kindling of the fire, or maybe even a shoot off of the technique, and somewhere in there we would be bound to have semi normal bouts like bbs waking world and sekiros largely outer God free lands. But that's just q theory, a dumbasses theory. Thanks for reading
I like to think the Elden Beast is the true Elden Ring. Part of this is the fact when you attack it across the duration of the fight, it makes cracking sounds as if glass is breaking bit by bit. Keep in mind too the Elden Beast is considered one of the gods of the greater (outer) will, who reign supreme over the Lands Between and even the demigods. So, maybe the final fight with the Elden Beast is you shattering the Elden Ring once again, since Radagon was for protecting the Elden Ring whereas Marika tried to break it.
There is an additional thought I wanted to share which is that Marika took over the Reign from the dragon god which Placidusax is waiting for, frozen in time, because he was in charge when the Erdtree used to be the Crucible, and all remnants of the crucible turned to support Godfrey as well as Marika, supported by the fact that the dragon knight keeps Marikas shadow Maliketh contained and under surveillance, maybe it's a piece that fits into your picture as well. Also in my head Melina was Marikas cindermaiden, chosen to sacrifice herself so Marika could end the age of the Crucible in the first place, which I support with the fact that she is tied with destined death, a power which only was in place before Marikas reign and kept a secret all the way. Maybe it is just my rambling but I hope it at least evokes some deeper thought s for y'all
I think the greater will legitimately thought the player character would bend to it's every whim and severely underestimated your critical thinking skills or the amount of help you'd receive. Maybe both
One interesting thing I haven't seen discussed is how/why the Elden Beast is using gravity magic. Aside from the transition to the weird final fight arena, you never see the elden ring/beast associated with that kind of magic.
It might be silly to try to support a theory with another theory, but I really liked how you described the pillars in Eldenbeast's arena as trunks to different dimensions. When I first saw them, I couldn't help but to think of the Hunter's dream, where you saw quite similar pillars surrounding the area - I've always thought that these were the different 'dreams' / worlds of all the other hunters we met or... well, other players.
Is interesting to imagine that the numem race itself was created by the greater will using dragon scale in order to have immortal champions to use in diferents lands. Like Marika for exemple seems to be made out of stone in the Final cutscene.
The Greater Will is not a parasite, it's a belief system (absolute order) inside a paradigm (order & caos). The Elden Lord is a vassal who imposes this belief (absolute order). The Elden Ring is the current paradigm that reigns (order & caos). The Elden Beast is an avatar of this god (absolute order). There are many gods in The Lands Between that enforces a belief inside a paradigm but don't reign.
I just noticed that the into cinematic shows both Marika and then Radagon. The two flashes at the start which are strikes on the Elden Ring by one then the other. It showed us from the beginning that they were/are one person. Your focus is pulled to the bright flash of light that is centered on the forge, it’s a slight change in clothing and body shape. From a female form in a dress to a male form bare chested.
You touched on part of my theory briefly, here is mine. Bare with me here, these are just theories but I hope you will find them interesting. Please read to the end for full understanding of my theory. It seems fairly obvious to me that the second Round Table Hold that you find in Leyndell is the in the current timeline and the one Melina brings you to is in the past since the one in Leyndell is identical but dilapidated. The biggest clue to this is the description of the Coded Sword that is found upon the throne of the Two Fingers in the Leyndell version of the Round Table Hold: "Hidden sword once granted to the Tarnished of the Roundtable by the Two Fingers. A formless cipher comprises its blade, which deals holy damage no shield can repel. Champions would gather at the Roundtable Hold in days long past, when the Two Fingers were masters of oration, their flesh yet full of vigor." Its not a secret that many believe that Ranni the Witch is Melina, and time travel would highly support this since Ranni’s real body is long dead. So Melina could be the past version of Ranni. In my theory, the event of the shattering actually fragmented reality itself, making different times as well as realities collide. I believe some characters are aware of this phenomenon, and some are not. Possible effected characters: Melina: Melina is Ranni Support for this theory is: 1) Ranni has a ghostly figure next to her that shares an eye with her, the eye is closed and would match Melina’s closed eye, it even has a similar symbol underneath. 2) Both Ranni and Melina fade away in similar fashion. 3) Both Ranni and Melina know Torrent Millicent: I think Millicent is Malenia, either from the past or from an alternate reality. Her ‘sisters’ could be from alternative realities as well (making 6 versions in all, more on that later) support for this theory includes: 1) her missing the same arm 2) her knowing the water foul dance 3) Gowry saying “No, she must embark on her journey, and stare her fate in the eye.” when speaking of her visiting Malenia at the Halig Tree. 4) Millicent believes she is related to Malenia in some way but can’t even ponder it herself, even mentioning she might be an “offshoot” of some kind. 5) Gowry when speaking of her death and personal decision to take out the needle he remarks “Millicent... Malenia... Do you detest us, so utterly?” of course he can be speaking of 2 people, but with everything else in consideration it can certainly be seen both ways. All of this of course would mean that Gowry is aware of the fragmentation of reality. Goldmask: I believe Goldmask is part of a paradox within the fragmented reality. Him wanting to study the Golden Order leads him to actually creating it! His ‘mending rune of perfect order’ would end up becoming the ‘Golden order’ An interesting revelation I had is that Goldmask is very similar to the 2 fingers, as he does not speak and moves his arms (and fingers) in a method of communication. Brother Corhyn even mentions this a few times. Other loose possibilities: Abducted Miquella is from the past alternate reality as he is in his seedling form before he was able to sprout into the Haligtree Jar Barin becomes Alexander when he absorbs his heart. One of the more important parts of my theory is that every alternative reality is governed by each of the six endings or (ages) being the perfect number as I mentioned earlier there are six alternate versions of Malenia/Millicent. Each possible age all ready has influence in the lands between even though they have not happened yet as they are all part of this fragmented timeline and clash of alternate realities. When an NPC invades it does so from another world or ‘reality’ the Urd tree and minor Urd trees act as conduits to the link between these worlds explaining why when you kill Urd Tree Avatars certain NPC invaders can no longer invade. When the Urd tree is set ablaze the the link is weakened causing the fire to seep into the time rift which results in the past version of the round table hold burning down, leading to it’s eventual current state that you find it in Leyndell. Another thought is about Melina's hands: Melina has scar tissue on her hands. This could mean she has been the burning maiden before in previous ages, she keeps trying to fix the broken timeline, in every age (alternate reality).
"The Lands Between" might also be a slight nod to Berserk's "MidLand" or even the Interstice/Fantasia. Honestly a lot possible there. There are many, many references to berserk scattered all through out the game and we know Berserk was one of Miyazaki's biggest influences. Dark Souls is more beloved as a Berserk game than the actual Berserk games.
Thank you for helping me figure out the roots with eyes are from Godwyn. I always noticed the ones in the catacombs, but not near his body so I never figured out where they originated from.
At 14:30 you say that death would be known for the first time but, didn't we restored destined death when we defeat maliketh? Because in the mending rune of the death prince says: Formed of the two hallowbrand half-wheels combined, it will embed the principle of life within Death into Order. The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored. Because it says death restored but also embed the principle of life within Death, i think it is not the same as with only the rune of death. Also i like your theory.
It's interesting how (almost) every character from the intro is connected to an ending. Hoarah Loux - Age of Fracture (After Morgott's body disappears, we can see the guidance of grace pointing Godfrey towards us, 'cause the Greater Will thinks we want to get rid of Its influence given that We burned the Erdtree; If Godfrey had won, He would probably choose to mend the Elden Ring in the Greater Will's favor). Goldmask - Age of Order Fia - Age of the Duskborn Dung Eater - Age of Despair Gideon Ofnir - Something else eniterly - we do nothing. (No in-game ending; still probably would favor Marika's beliefs) Also, we can see 'stars' or 'cosmos' inside those circular teleports in the Lands Between, so the huge Moon in the Age of Stars' ending being a teleport is pretty much undeniable. What interests me though is that, in Ranni's ending, this Moon is collapsing into itself, and in the edge between the moon and the teleport where the Moon is being collapsed to are stars and galaxies, so it may be the visualization of "The Moon guiding the stars", and the Moon actually BEING the cosmos and stars, like a being controlling the cosmos, with Moon being its visual respresentation.
i've given a look at the endings be4 i eventually finish my first run, but i just rly don't like any of the endings. all of them feel like bad endings, and we just choose whose corrupt ideology we decide to implement (or simply do nothing and let the world continue suffering as it is). the age of the stars felt the closest one to a good ending, weren't for the part where we just skedaddle and let the world slowly die. i don't trust Ranni, she could just be lying like literally everyone else and making us just leave the world forever pushes me away from trusting her even more. the only character i feel like i can trust in this game is Alexander. heck, just lemme have an age of the jar ending and it'll already be better for me
Elden ring is one big boss battle we cross the fog into the lands between which is the bosses name. The rest of the game is just a long battle with a big tree. Miazaki really liked bed of chaos so wanted to make a boss fight with even more unessassery steps.
I'd like to say that I love these kinds of theories. BUT Time has proven that the more a theory needs to speculate, the bigger it falls flat when DLC and other stuff is released XD (I still haven't watched the entire video tho)
It’s nice to see something a bit newer on the lore scene I haven’t seen anything on this theory so love new stuff. Keep it up love watching when I’m high 😂
(First of all, sorry for explaining all over the place and bad English) I HAVE A THEORY, that Marika and radagon were not the same before, but fused somehow. I believe that radagon was to Marika what blaid was to ranni, a shadow given by the 2 fingers to go mad if they refused the greater will. I believe that once Marika refuses the greater will, radagon went full hostile against her, just like we see bliad becoming hostile at the end of ranni's quest. Marika knew this, so she sent radagon to Raya lucaria in hopes that he would be defeated by Rennala, and while he was away Marika pit her plan to motion. Radagon, receiving order from the 2 fingers, leaved rennala and went back to Marika to confront, just as he was programed like blaidd, and this is the moment when they became one. I believe that during that time, Marika found a way to fuse 2 beings into 1, and used that knowledge to fuse ragadon onto herself, taking full control of him. Until Marika tries to break the elden ring, where she's unable to control radagon anymore, hence why you see in the intro cinematic both in the exact same place, one fixing it and the other breaking it. Marika dies at this point, while radagon becomes a puppet made to protect the greater will inside the Erdtree. Why I say a puppet? Well during his fight if you pay attention, you'll notice that some of his moves seem unnatural, like he's not moving on his own, he moves like a puppet beings pulled by the strings, this is mostly noticeable when he randomly changes target completely out of nowhere. Sorry if this is all over the place, I'm still trying to find a way of explaining it without it becoming too complex.
A couple things... Malekith was Marika's shadow, so unless she had two, Radagon wasn't in that role. He certainly still could have been manipulated by the Greater Will though. The other thing is that, as I understand it, Marika *can't* die, as Destined Death is sealed within Malekith (until we come along, anyway). The Greater Will seems to have chosen to immobilize and imprison her/them within the main Erdtree instead.
Yes, that Marika & Radagon were fused. You can see this from Melina’s dialogue “O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.” And yes before the merger was completed, she managed to shatter the Elden Ring first. “Queen Marika is driven to the brink,” as said by the narrator. Also no, that Radagon is the leal hound of the Golden Order and with that, the shadow of Marika is Maliketh. Why Maliketh is not hostile to Marika is because finally Marika is Radagon, who’s loyal to the Golden Order. The Marika-Maliketh pairing happened a long ago, when Marika was still just an Empyrean just like Ranni. Radagon has nothing to do with it, except when directly ordered by the Golden Order, its incarnation the Elden Beast.
I agree with the trunks in the Elden Beast arena representing multiple dimensions or perhaps "worlds". The Elden Beast looks very much like "the great attractor", a cosmological theory of the movement of galaxies throughout the universe. What guides them? The Greater Will is clearly supposed to be that force, and indeed is named similarly. The arena is our chance to see the inconceivably vast influence the Greater Will has on the entire fucking universe.
I love the wild theorizing a lot more, since once you're free of trying to 'prove' your interpretation is correct, you can just... make interesting speculation and then follow through on interpreting *why* that sequence of events is meaningful and thematically interesting.
Could you do a video on the finger readers? They are such a fascinating figure and I was very curious when I first saw that huge amount of them dead close to Marikas chamber on Lyndell
In my own world that I have been world building, when you are born you are given a divine soul from the gods which allows you to wield magic, but in my version of christian judgment day, the ones who refused the god's offer are the only ones to live, as the god of shadows steals the souls of all that oppose him. This is kind of similar the the sight if grace in my opinion, and being reborn through the Elden tree: It is heavily implied to be a holy thing but really I believe it to be an inescapable, grotesque cycle of torture in which you are enslaved to the greater will.
This is a great culmination of ideas that bring this theory about! Love this sort of content from you, sir! Very unique set of speculations and concepts. 🙏🏼 keep it up.
Yeah, it's definitely a curiosity, and the way they warp and distort is probably why AgtJake guesses that Ranni's dark moon is, itself, a sending gate (・∀・)
Ranni's ending was mistranslated significantly, you should check out what it's actually supposed to say before examining it. Iirc it was supposed to be you and her going on the 1000 year voyage, to take the godly power away from humanity who would wreak havoc and disparity with it, and remove it from the world.
Another important point is that this theory woukd make it make sense lorewise how we could summon eachother, and when you do summon someone it says the'yre being brought to your world, and for them it says they're being brought to another world, and i think that right there is undenyable evidence
I think that the Perfect Order ending actually helps the Greater Will. To explain, Goldmask's entire goal was to prevent "the gods no better than men" from changing the Golden Order, namely Marika and Radagon. I think that by perfecting the Golden Order, you are returning it to the control of its original creator, the Greater Will. Now, it could be interpreted that by "gods no better than men" Goldmask was referring to the Outer Gods, but I highly doubt that this is the case, as much as I'd like to believe it to be the truth. Remember that Goldmask views the Golden Order as an equation rather than a philosophy, which leads me to believe that he'd be much more inclined to serve the Outer God of Order than the fickle goddess Marika. But these are just my thoughts based on what I know about Elden Ring's lore. Edit: Credit goes to SmoughTown for the research on Goldmask.
Elden Ring is SYMBOLIC. It's a lot like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings in that way, unsurprising given it was written by Martin. I actually think Martin did a reasonable job, no it isn't up to Tolkien's standards, but nothing ever will be. So I suggest instead of worrying about timeline inconsistencies, look at the symbology of the events. I suspect that asking "where are the Lands Between" is like asking "where is Heaven".... some people may be able to give you an answer, and those will vary greatly, as do opinions on what all this means. It's not as simple as saying "this one thing means something", because it isn't that type of story... it's more like a collection of metaphors and symbolic concepts, and while the Lord of the Rings certainly has a very simple surface layer "plot" (go to Mt Doom and destroy the One Ring) we all know it is so much deeper, hence the reason it is loved so much. Elden Ring and The Lord of the Rings both share a deep sense of mythology, because in a way, they are both trying to be like the Bible.
although i do agree with you, i wouldn't say that elden ring is symbolic because of Martin having written the base for the world. Rather the nature of From's games in general, dark souls, bloodborne etc. are all just as full of symbolism as elden ring. but because of that it is that From and Martin made such a good team because he like tolkien also leans heavily into symbolism in his stories.
The lands between seems like a random island hidden in the fog. Radahns arena shows shipwrecks as do many other beaches they also mention many other countries. It's quite unlike bloodborne where I feel like the "dream" is an actual dimension that you're trapped in.
Great theory on Marika's plans. I've been suspecting that she was involved in the night of black knives and this strengthens my suspicion. Also, there are quotes referring to Marika as the one giving and taking grace away. That explains why even the Dung Eater is being guided by grace, given that he openly opposes the Greater Will. He's an asset in Marika's personal war.
I love this. I think Smough's dissection just covers more bases in exonerating Marika, but knowing he had to dig so hard to do that, means that this theory is/was very solid in general. I think you're right about Marika' wanting change, but I think (after watching like 90 videos at this point over and over lol) she was only spurred to do so after Godwyn died as a part of Ranni's selfishness. She's painted as a lover/heroine, but in actuality, we are also being used by her as well. I never realized the moon in the end is a huge sending gate, which BLEW MY FRICKIN MIND, so thanks for that. I'm making a Dnd campaign based off of the Elden Ring story, and this is awesome content and lore to have!
I think you might be onto something. However, I would go one step further: The Greater Will, in order to control fate and destiny, decided to have multiple parallel universe run at the same time, send their emissary (the Two fingers) in every universe to guide the development of the universes, and when one universe reached a satisfactory state it will merge with the primary universe: the Lands Between. Which would make the Lands Between a universe from which would spawn all other universes, a universe that is special and chosen unlike all of others. A little like the golden child of all the other universes. Which would match perfectly with the symbol of the Greater Will dynasty: the Golden Tree. It would expect a looooot of things such as why did Radagon left all of the sudden Renalla and why his children are considered demi god and Empyrean ? Because the Greater Will realized that he didn't need a real Elden Lord anymore, so he merged the Lands Between with a reality where he chose the last descendant of the Fire Giants to rule over the world instead of Marika, which would merge both Marika and Radagon together. If Radagon and Marika are the same person, how to explain Miquella and Malenia ? Created due to a merge with a reality where these children existed. Now, the elephant in the room: what happened during the shattering ? My guess is that Ranni found out what the Greater Will has been doing, and tried to escape from that plan. During that plan, Godwyn died, and since the Elden Ring was not complete the Greater Will couldn't merge universes to fix that. Either in a desperate attempt to save her son, or to enact revenge toward the Greater Will, Marika destroyed the remaining of the Elden Ring which triggered the Shattering. And so, in order to "save the world" the Greater Will decided to merge all universe at once to choose champions whose task would be to save the Elden Ring (the tarnish). But by doing so, it brought things it never intended, like Milena from a world where the Dusk eyed Queen was not dead, the other "exotic" runes you can collect from Gold Mask, Fia or Dung Eater which are "mutated" runes from other world, and even something like Farum Azula.
I interpret The Lands Between to be a reference to Berserk's planes of existence. You have the Mortal World, that looks like our own, with no supernatural elements. The Ideal World, where the gods reside. And in between you have the Astral World, filled with mythical monsters, and where gods have a much stronger influence (due to the Astral World being closer to the Ideal World). Perhaps Ranni's ending is the player journeying to the Ideal World?
This could be supported by Master Hewg’s prayer to Merika. He’s basically asking her to forgive him for failing to kill a god, and that failure is why she was so angry with him that he was made a prisoner. I think it was Hewg that imbued death into the weapons of the black knife assassins, but the weapons failed to kill Godwyn completely, leaving his body alive and corrupted. That doesn’t really work with the idea that his body was meant to weaken the Erd tree, but it’s clear to me that Merika was involved in Godwin’s death.
Great video! I agree with most of what you said, however, I do not believe Ranni intends to take the rest of humanity to another world. I think only the Tarnished and Ranni will leave for a thousand-year voyage under the Dark Moon, whilst everyone else is left behind to grow and live on their own without the negative influence and meddling of anymore Gods. As that doesn't make any sense with what Ranni said about faith being physically disconnected from one's senses, if they're all traveling with their God and her Lord the whole time. Also, the Greater Will isn't what gives the Tarnished their grace, it is Marika based on what Melina has said throughout the game. Even the Two Fingers who serve it were confused and tried to commune with it to understand why the Tarnished were locked out of the Erdtree if the Greater Will wants them to become Elden Lord. It's like Varre said, the Two Fingers got fucked up when the Elden Ring was shattered, and they're just spouting senile delusions and have no clue what is actually going on. Just look here: "Very well. In Marika's own words. My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die. Well? Perhaps that might serve you in lieu of a maiden's guidance. In Marika's own words. Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey." Then, when you combine this with the intro showing Marika's statue hovering over all the Tarnished's tombs as they arise it's pretty clear it is Marika's guidance the Tarnished are receiving.
Considering 'the lands between' is obviously a reference to 'midgard' there very well maybe indeed other 'universes' such as the 'badlands' where hoara loux and his warriors and also most of the tarnished come from. So yeah, there very well might be other such places that aren't actually other continents (even though we can see other landmasses eastward when looking from some of the coasts) but lands "above" and "under" the "lands between".
I tend to see the lands bewtween as something like H.P. lovecrafts dreamlands as they share many similarities couple that with the fact that in bloodborne your meant to die right at the start and wakeup in a dream wich seems to have been repeated in elden ring and i think that fits well with this theory
I believe that the Greater Will is a metaphor for us the player and that the different fingers represented the player's hand which inputs the player's will. In this same context, you can kind of think of the Elden beast as a "controller" and the various runes that make up the Elden ring as the different buttons on that controller. Great video btw!!
Wow. I loved this video; at the end of my playthrough I also had the impression that the outer gods acted pretty much like parasites to the gods in The Lands Between, but this theory explores that idea in a very interesting and well-written way. Subscribed!
To understand Marika, you need to understand her inspiration, Mārīcī, and Fromsoft tradition of criticising Buddhism. Marika's inspiration is Mārīcī, (Sanskrit: मारीची, lit. "Ray of Light"; Chinese: 摩利支天; pinyin: Mólìzhītiān; Japanese: Marishiten), is a Buddhist god (devi )or goddess, as well as a bodhisattva associated with light and the Sun. Furthermore, Mārīcī was equated with Virgin Mary symbolism by first Europeans who learned of her. Best example that shows Marika was inspired by Mārīcī, is that while she is mostly seen as female deity, she actually has male aspect/alter ego that is god and protector of warfare, warriors and combat. To understand Marika's inspiration is to understand Marika and her motives and goals. Mārīcī's goal is to help and "usher" mankind into an enlightenment. And I believe so is Marika's, by manufacturing eternal, unending conflict. First and most important lesson of Buddhism is that life is suffering. Only by freeing oneself from the meaningless illusion of life one can be free and achieve state of non-being that liberates you from pain and cycle of reincarnations. Just like Golden Order encourages/forces people to reincarnate. In the Buddhist context, nirvana refers to realization of non-self and emptiness, marking the end of rebirth by stilling the fires that keep the process of rebirth going. Nirvana (nibbana) literally means "blowing out" or "quenching. Mārīcī/Marika's goal is to make mankind realise the grand illusion through eternal conflict, until they quench the flame of ambition that drives them on, finally freeing themselves from the pain and cycle of rebirth by. This is Mārīcī/Marika's design that made Gideon Ofnir afraid, as he realized their god had betrayed her own religion and society to usher all people into non-being. If Marika wanted to have her revenge against Greater Will, nothing would be better way to accomplish this, than to allow fire that drives all life slowly be quenched. In this sense, Marika is similar to Sister Friede and Prince Lothric, but willing to actually become martyr for what she believes in, content to be crucified to lead mankind into "salvation". If you quit playing Elden Ring without finishing the game, or get the most simple Age of Fracture ending, Marika essentially wins. Mārīcī is the most fearsome villain in Soulsborne history. She is the prophet/envoy of non-being and apathy, and intends to take all the world with her into nothingness. God Mask understood this, and begged Greater Will to save the world from fickle and zealous gods.
I've always thought the same, "the lands between what?" My hypothesis is the lands between life itself. ie Heaven for lack of a better world. Look around the game. the whole place is literally built apon death. In our home across the fog, sounds to me like to get to the lands between you have to die in what ever place you inhabit currently.
●I got the frenzied flame my first playthrough, but i sacrificed melina to the flame by beforehand as well, i didnt know that she comes after you when you become frenzied flame, i felt bad for the lands between afterwards because no one can stop me
Something I wonder is why was Godwyn "the first to die", and who else died? I think the first is not hard to make reasonable speculation - Godwyn was the golden child, the heir apparent. He was a Golden Order fundamentalist. Killing him was a blow to the Order and the Greater Will. Left alive, Godwyn would have rallied the Order and the faithful, taken down the rebellion (even if it meant killing family), and replaced Marika. The headless bodies in the walking mausoleums are said to be the remains of demi-gods. That... is pretty much all we know. We don't even have names to give these bodies. I think it's safe to speculate these are the others implied to have died. But who were they? Why did they also die? Maybe these were also hard-line fundamentalists, taken out by the Black Knives to further weaken the Order?
I had a different feeling about Marika. I feel that she planned the downfall of the GW by giving birth to her children and letting in all the outer gods creep in through the suffering of her children, what more of a tragic story can you get.
Great video, but we actually do have a rough idea of how long Marica has been around imo. Check the piles of tablets in the queens chambers bonfire room before the elden throne Its stacks and stacks of cuneiform record keeping tablets
Awesome video AgtJake. I love that you are taking your time your time with the lore to better understanding it. I would like to share something dire to the lore of Elden Ring. But first I would first like to share a very important detail; I implore you read this AgtJake. Elden ring: "In our home, across the fog, The Land Between." Demon's Souls: "That is, until the colorless fog swept across the land." Dark Souls: "The world was unformed, shrouded with fog." What a strange coincidence, don't you think? These examples of fog being used are all from the intro cinematics. Something else which is big is when you meet The Monumental from Demon's Souls is that they say, "In order to mend the fabric of what land still remained, we entrusted six leaders with precious Archstones". Another thing I found is that at the very beginning of Demon's Souls, we see our character, surrounded in fog, enter a fissure to enter Bolitaria. I am not sure what to make of these discoveries, which is why I wanted to share them with you all. There may be more connections with fog in other SoulsBorne games, so make sure to be on the lookout. Thank you for reading.
I'd like to say that summons and how they work in elden ring really helps your theory. You can never actually see another player character in the flesh, thus maybe your just summoning another version of them just like your NPC spirit ashes which can be independent of the flesh character. Similar for invading your simply entering another world in a literal sense. Idk but seems like a good theory as spirit ashes and summons all seem very important in lore
what are the Odds Marika grew tired of the Two Fingers and The Greater Will's Aspect of Order and the shattering of the Elden Ring was the result of Her communing with the Three Fingers and becoming Frenzied?
Excellent point,infact. Erdtree seems like a parasite but act like a fungus. Or more imitates the fungus cycle,which is expelling the leafs into the soil so can soil turn them into nourishment for the Erdtree. The only q is why and with what purpouse is doing so. The roots in the dungeon confirm its origins of the fungus. And fungus seems works for the best for it self and envirointment,well,it has to,in order to have good nourishment product. Is there something deeper? Damn,yes..like a world which has been pulled over our eyes. Even the empyrians are worning the tarnished bout this. Are they our guidance,long lost?
Marika comes from the lands of the Numen (likely the Eternal Cities). She only became a goddess **after** the Greater Will arrived to the Lands Between. "The goddess Marika originally came from the lands of the Numen. She was an empyrean who ascended to godhood and became ruler of the Lands Between with the assistance of an Outer God: the Greater Will".
I loved that you mentioned the multiple trunks within the elder beast and how it could be a representation of infinite possibilities, each a different tarnished, it was what I thought first seeing it. Also I think that it's a representation of the Elden Beast itself, since it's also made of golden branches, in a way you could think that's is time and space itself taking just a inferior representation of itself to be comprehended by the tarnished. Also I don't think that the moon is a literal portal, but a representation of power and will of a being, likely in this case a outer good, the moon itself... We see this same phenomena across our journey, when we fight Renala and then Ranni intervene or fighting Astel, that transforms a cave into a infinite cosmos... The being is so powerful that it's mere presence bends reality itself, like the erdtree phase the worlds and planes into themselves, with makes me think the great will is time and space itself, hence a hole different level of power and interference from the outer gods
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Whats that armour?
This theory is pretty good, but I think I can fill in some gaps.
The "Elden ring"is apart from the "Greater Will". The goal of the greater will is to take control of the Elden Ring, the Lands between and consequently everything.
I belive that Merika brought the elden ring to the lands between, or discovered how to manipulate it. This change sent out a message to the deep void of the universe and drew in the greater will. Where a golden star fell to the earth. A star that would be the elden beast and the raw material to create Radigan. A perfect mimic of herself, or perfectly herself.
When it comes to Empirians and what that means. I belive that Merika and Radigan having seen the inflictions of their first two children(most likely for only having one soul);Sought out the help of Renalla who was the authority on soul sourceries at the time. And Renalla assisted by lending a part of her own soul in order to complete Rani. Thus making her Rani's mother
Why Marika shattered the Elden Ring is because she was driven to the brink. What drove her to the brink: 1) at first, her intent was to search the depths of the Golden Order, but then she found that the Golden Order is broken to the core; 2) she won a lot of wars and established peace, but even then none of her children or stepchildren can succeed her for too long; 3) she was about to be merged with Radagon and there’s nothing she can do about it, except to shatter the Elden Ring.
I personally think elden ring is connected to demon souls
Fia's ending, or "The Age of the Duskborn", I believe, is not simply a reintroduction of Death into The Lands Between. You've already released Destined Death by defeating Maliketh, so Death has already been returned to the natural cycle. Fia, throughout her questline, is a defender of individuals who "Live in Death" or what we cosnider, undead.
Since Death is locked away, we can only consider those who "Live in Death" to be those who refuse to return to the Erdtree for rebirth, and have long been persecuted by the Golden Order for this choice. Fia wishes to end this persecution and allow those who "Live in Death" to be, not only common, but encouraged. So, in essence, Death would not be the end, rather the beginning of your new eternal life.
I'm shocked at how many people miss this, returning Destined Death to the Elden Ring happens regardless of the ending, Fia explicitly says her goal is to integrate Those who Live in Death into the natural order
I believe it may not be a choice based on what sorcerer Roger said but just a random chance
UNDEAD YES. UNPERSON NO!
@@emilyadams1844 yeah, it seems like "those who live in death" are every unfortunate fucker who happens to be near a death root, i would not be very happy to be a rotten ass skeleton
@@emilyadams1844 Yeah it's not actually something they choose, which is a big writing problem with her quest and ending IMO. Her whole thing is supposed to be an “order of the many and the meek” but you don’t really get that feel from the undead in the game. Becoming one of Those Who Live in Death doesn’t really seem to be correlated with bringing about justice for an oppressed underclass or something, they just seem to be generic undead that rise out of graves. Outside of Rogier deliberately becoming Death Blighted to study it, undeath doesn’t seem to be voluntary, and doesn’t correlate at all with social class or discrimination in life. The Deathroot sprouts up in random places as a result of Godwyn’s corpse being at the roots of the Erdtree, and the Tibia Mariners go around spreading it and bringing people back from the dead by force. Neither Ranni or Godwyn deliberately created undeath. It was basically a cosmic accident resulting from Ranni’s scheme to kill her body but not her soul. The way Fia seems to present it, her whole scheme with the undead is meant to solve or a social problem or injustice - but the undead are basically a glitch in reality that she turns into a “feature”. The problem being solved isn’t a social one related to society in the Lands Between, it’s a cosmic accident that on the whole is not really going to change much for most people.
I do like the optional endings based on our unique descessions that we make along the way. But its interesting how even still the endings are still bound to the causality that is change itself.
I think you misspelled "everyone agrees with me"
Decisions*
I love making descessions in games too.
Me who basically completed all the quests I could on my first playthrough "I wonder which one imma get" still haven't been spoiled on endings
All lies within the flow of causality
There was cut content where Malenia calls you "Sweet Tarnished, my dearest companion" what if there was an ending where you help Miquella claim the Elden Ring, and possibly marry Melania? Kind of like Ranni's ending but instead of magic and the moon its holiness and the Haligtree, I'd personally prefer this ending over any other, since unlike Ranni, there can be no argument for Miquella being evil in any way, whereas Ranni could be considered as a simple regime change and nothing more
Ranni wish is to remove the influence of the greater will from everyone, a time of stars would start because the people are not going to be blinded by the erdtree, the golden order looses all the power, and probably, all the outer gods stop getting involved.
@@lorenzmaut3708 Yes, but lets think, is the removal of any and all kind of faith really a good thing? What if Ranni simply wishes to become the god of The Lands Between, as opposed to the noble cause of wishing to protect it fron the influence of other gods, either a grasp for power or a noble goal, we cant really tell which
@@lorenzmaut3708 She may have removed influences from greater will, but she still didn't do anything to fix the lands.
That would be a better ending tbh. Malenia and Miquella are actually decent enough, with what their reasoning for the creation of the Haligtree being. Miquella wanting to remove all influences, and would actually probably fix the lands in between.
Also, Malenia consort is nice-o.
@@bimates2690 What does "fixing the lands" mean? Her mission was to get rid of outer gods and let the people of the lands be free. She achieves that.
Furthermore with Goldmask's ending, ever noticed how the Erdtree turns a more brilliant form of gold, pure gold, some might even say unalloyed gold. Plus we see the mending rune around the Elden Ring almost as to protect it. Lastly, we know from the haligtree (likely a sapling of the Erdtree) that the Greater Will's influence can be removed from its trees. So I think it's not much of a stretch to believe that the perfected order removes the medaling of all the gods including the outer gods
The Elden Ring by definition is an artifact of the Greater Will, any Order actuated through it is pro-Greater Will by definition. Miquella is not actually opposed to the Greater Will (we know this from his cut ending where he replaces Marika) and there is nothing to suggest the Haligtree removes its influence
There is also the fact that the mending rune's description says that it was found by Goldmask
@@soarel325 I mean, the Haligtree isn’t gold at all. And we don’t get any indication that anyone associated with the Golden Order (even Gideon) really knows what’s going on there, right?
@@SageStudiesGunnarFooth That doesn't mean Miquella is opposed to the Greater Will
@@soarel325 You can see an image of much more complex Elden Ring in Farum Azula. Which tell us that Elden Ring existed even in times of dragons and crusible, before Elden Beast arrived. So Elden Ring is definitelly NOT creation of greater will, it was just taken over and assimilated.
I'm not sure of it, but why chosen Empyreans (Marika, Malenia, Miquella and Ranni) are all trying to avoid or destroy the Order? Marika shattered the ring, Ranni is traveling to other worlds away from the Order, Malenia had this scarlet rot problem, which represented other goddess and Miquella basically created another Great Tree for cure his sister. What a self destructive will the Order has...
I've always liked Fia's ending the most due to it's obvious inspirations from Norse mythology. Godwyn, the golden son, is killed. He is then locked beneath the roots of a great tree until the time is ripe again for him to step forth and lead the world into a new era. This is almost one-to-one what happens to the Norse god Baldur. Baldur was the most beloved god of the Asir, who killed by a close member of his family. His soul then wandered the roots of Yggdrasil. Baldur's death, like with Godwyn's, ushered in an age of strife, until his resurrection after Ragnarok.
Godwyn's rebirth as a greatrune would create an era of life within death. Death in Elden Ring is described as being a state of painless bliss, so Godwyn's ascension could possibly wipe away all suffering. Besides, I really think the ending really has a nice symmetry to it. Godwyn's death was the catalyst for The Shattering, and his return to the world would mark it's end.
I don't think undeath is comparable to bliss, rather oblivion.
If Goldwyn continued to infect the roots, then ultimately every being would end up undead and the cycle of life and death would come to a halt. Which is one way to disrupt the golden order, but is it really a good one?
Tbh I would really rather not live in a world full of Basilisks, Wormfaces, Deathbirds and living skeletons.
May chaos take the world! MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!!
"Baldur's death, like with Godwyn's, ushered in an age of strife, until his resurrection after Ragnarok" bruh I can't believe I just had God of War Ragnarok potentially spoiled for me in an elden ring comment section
@@ethanwashington6789 I mean, if you know anything about Norse mythology, the endgame plot twist of Baldur becoming vulnerable by a mistletoe arrow is obvious.
I thought it was pretty obvious that Marika was rebelling against the Greater Will, despite her vassal status. Why else would she shatter the Ring? And specifically after Godwyn, her favorite child, is killed.
The other reason she finally managed to shatter the Elden Ring is because she was driven to the brink. That Godwyn was killed, should be a valid reason for Marika to be depressed. But, it doesn’t picture the whole story. What I found to complete the story: after defeating Malenia, Gideon will mention to the Tarnished about the Queen’s sorrows in regard to the Haligtree of being a husk, and that Miquella was kidnapped. Then, you can find the Golden Epitaph just outside of Leyndell, in Auriza’s Hero Grave, which paints a picture of a personal relation between Miquella and Godwyn, aside from only being Marika’s sons. Miquella and Godwyn are Marika’s best biological sons, given that the Omen twins are not acceptable to the Golden Order. But then those two sons are also the ones who left her side - Godwyn died from Ranni’s plot and Miquella created the Haligtree to cure Malenia. Marika could still hold herself from shattering the Elden Ring, except that she finally realized the fact of her whole family after elevating their status to demigods.
Yeah this whole video feels like a broken record, just detailed descriptions of things we already know with occasional cool thoughts like "what if the Elden Ring was with Marika for longer"
she clearly shattered the ring because she was tired of marriage. she wanted a divorce
I think she was rebelling long before that. I believe she was responsible for the first burning and that she created the gloam-eyed queen. She left the tree as radagon after the burning because she thought she was free. She returned when she realized the outer god had not been slain with the burning and was made into a puppet before hewg could build a weapon capable of slaying the god.
Lands Between seems to me like a testing ground for Outer Gods. Place where they test orders and races and individuals that they will later perfect and implement somewhere else.
I like the idea that each of us, as players, is another “universe” in which the Greater Will has influence and in which we enact our own change. Kind of how the Lord of Cinder was technically the amalgamation of all the Ashes (players) who came before
Well all gwyn needed to do was GET OUT OF THE KILN
Who’s the lord of cinder
@@malikmarshall5550 You are a Lord of cinder if it burns when you piss
@@malikmarshall5550 The final boss of Dark Souls 3 was called the Soul of Cinder. It was an amalgamation and reflection of popular builds and playstyles crafted by players in DS1 and would switch between them in random phases. Additionally, its arena was warped and isolated, with various semi-recognisable buildings and landscapes folding in towards the First Flame and curving around it as though it were a black hole sucking them in. Its this patchwork imagery that lets us draw a line to the Erdtree, the Lands Between and its own bizarrely patchwork nature.
That would imply the Greater Order is losing influence over *checks sales numbers* 13.4 million universes at once lmao
Miyazaki said “The Eternal champion” was inspiration for Elden Ring. I highly recommend reading the synopsis. You will see a lot of the inspiration behind the story of the Tarnished,
and it may even provide answers…
Edit: guys I get it, i misread the post. Chill
Im not reading a whole novel for videogame lore. Got a tldr?
@@nitothefunkybunch6938 dude he recommended to just read the synopsis
@@nitothefunkybunch6938 they synopsis is your tldr man
Hey thanks for this, interesting read
@@nitothefunkybunch6938 mate you won't take 1 minute to read a story synopsis but you'll listen to a 20 minute video on videogame lore?
I like how the Elden Beast have abilities that both Astel and Dragonlord Placidusax use. Makes me think that they are all the same source.
It's one of the elements that make me think that Marika isn't the first god to serve the Greater Will, and then reject it.
That the Dragon God was to the dragons what Marika is to the Golden Order, until they fled, having Placidusax eternally wait for them and forcing the Greater Will to find a replacement in Marika.
Whats the similarity to Placidusax? Astel yes, they both are stars and originate in the cosmos.
@@arcanefire7511 A breath of golden flames. They're the only enemies that use flames of that color.
@@draghettis6524 Ah right. Yeah, Placidusax has a unique flame color. Maybe because he was Elden Lord?
@@arcanefire7511 As gold and the title of Elden Lord are both associated with the Greater Will, it's part of why I think the dragons used to follow the Greater Will.
Given that, according to various Japanese translating fans, the Greatree, the great tree and the Erdtree are probably the same thing, that means that the Erdtree has become separated from its roots. Since the Erdtree is tilted and broken, unlike in pantings that depict it in its prime, it seems likely that this severance was caused by the shattering of the Ring.
Maybe this is one the reasons, if not the reason, why the Lands Between are folding and cracking and fracturing: without the roots of the Erdtree keeping the lands together, they start reverting to one, by the Law of Regression.
This would also mean that Godwyn’s influence spreads through the disconnected roots. It seems likely to me that he’s entombed under the main fracture. Besides, maybe his infection is more metaphysical in nature that it first seems, and the fact these roots are technically dead but alive (due to the lack of Destined Death) is what makes them so conductive to his energy. Hell, this may help in wrapping our heads around Godwyn’s infection in Farum Azula, which is in the sky!
Rant over. Peace.
@@SixBeark Thank you for the "good" and for the feedback! You're probably right about the Law of Regression, I called it a rant for a reason. The best thing in this community is giving and receiving all kind of suggestions.
Anyway, I think that even removing the Law of Regression from it, my train of thought doesn't become totally invalid. At least until someone points out some fundamental problem in it haha
Wheres his infection if the sky? Worm faces?
@@its_nuked Wormfaces, beastmen who live in death and roots with Godwyn’s eyes on them. Either it’s the Rune of Death itself, or it’s Godwyn’s influence like in pretty much all other instances of these occurencea (minus the wormfaces, who are quite ambiguous creatures in themselves).
The location Godwyn was buried in is states the Erdtrees roots, i believe it was the prince of deaths pustules description so it makes sense it would spread easily.
the only issue with your the erdtree is broken and tilted argument is that...
there is quite literally a doorway leading into the erdtree and that isn't tilted with the erdtree itself...
Ranni does say that she wants to abandon the soil with her order, so your ranni theory seems a lot more possible to me than before
For me The Lands Between reminded me of Bolataria from demon's souls. An entire continent cut off from the world by fog; Potentially done so by the greater will.
My biggest disagreement is with your interpretation of Ranni's ending, as I believe that only Ranni and her Elden Lord are leaving the Lands Between, leaving the people behind to create their own path, free of guidance from any higher being. It seems as though you believe that Ranni's moon is a sending gate designed to transport the population to another world, but I believe the moon we see is Ranni's Outer God, the one who would succeed the Greater Will as the guiding force of the world, but whether by its design or Ranni's betrayal, this new guiding force will abandon the Lands Between that those who live there may finally be free from the whims of higher beings, aligning with Marika's perceived goal outlined in the video, banishing not only the Greater Will, but any other Outer God who would seek to shape these lands.
Exactly. The night represents the absence of a guiding light and therefore free will. Only the dimmest, faintest form of rules and order still apply.
Freedom is the ability to do good without slavery to base, selfish desires. None of the endings offer that.
@@juice2307 Ok Socrates, we're talking about a video game that revolves around outer gods and living stars affecting human fate, not the human condition and enlightenment.
If ranni’s ending expels all outer gods from TLB, not just the greater will, it would have major implications for world afterwards. Ex: Malenia,Radahn and possibly all of caelid would be cured of the scarlet rot ( though it wouldn’t affect Radahn much), Mohg would lose connection to the formless mother and by extension Miquella. The flame of ruin could theoretically be extinguished, as it lost its source of power. The great rune’s would obviously lose their power as they are fragments of the Elden Ring ie the greater will. Who knows what else would happen after Ranni’s ending, which is mostly why it’s my favorite. Definitely not because we finally get a maiden :P
I think that’s what the original Japanese implies since there was a mistranslation I believe. Also I don’t think the age of stars ending is a removal of faith, but that the gods (aka the objects of said fate which would be Ranni and the moon) would be far removed from the politics and have less involvement with their people. Marika/Radagon were too involved or as Goldmask says, “fickle”
elden ring is my first soulsgame, and thus my first introduction to this style of community storytelling and lore analysis. It's all so fascinating seeing everyones unique journeys and perspectives of the lore.
I would imagine this is not the first time Marika has been "out of line." Who knows, maybe the greater will sent the Astels to the eternal city in order to break her.
I like to imagine that Astel was what Radahn was holding back
@@beeman5436 there were others before, for all we know. The eternal city got wrecked ages ago
That would implied that Marika, or her faction created the fingerslayer dagger. Dagger that is alike "radagon-sword" from the Elden Beast, which can lead to think that a consort body has been used to create it... maybe a part of Placidusax ?
Already been stated astel isn’t from anything other than the stars it’s a beast that exists no purpose literally a malformed star
@@strix4609 sacred relics isn’t radagons
Very interesting video! The one hang up I have is the idea that the tree is called a "parasite". It acts many times as a care giver, symbolically uplifting the denizens of the Lands Between in a symbiotic relationship. Since playing this game I've always felt like it was about an alien civilization that was colonizing other worlds and offering guidance and membership into a wider scope of civilizations across the vastness of space and between dimensional planes. What you're describing here is a war much the way the United States was born. A Declaration and war for Independence, much like how the American colonies gained independence from the British monarchy that established them. In that case it was because they were being taxed without proper representation, and the original colonies wished to declare themselves as a independent self-sufficient nation.
From what you're saying it appears to be a fairly accurate allegory for this, but simply put in a fantasy setting. The greater will is like the ruler of a galactic alien civilization that they wish to not receive help from as they grow into their own thing separate from it, like a bird leaving the nest and flying on it own. Like Ranni's Age of Stars suggests, the "loneliness" of how a child grows up, setting out and taking care of themselves upon reaching adulthood. This is exactly what I think is happening here.
My personal interpretation about the parasite angle is this. There are two parts. There is the physical land of the Lands Between, and there are the people who live there. They are two separate things.
This parasite has come from far away, and quite literally infected the literal land of the world. The physical place itself. With the physical *place* being what the Greater Will truely desires.
However, the land of Lands Between is protected by those who live there. People will protect their homes, and these homes are on the land. Making the people unknowing defenders of the land of the Lands Between.
The Greater Will knows this, and protects itself. It spreads its parasitic claws into the minds of the people. It forms a religion. It forms a group of those protectors and organizes them into a militant force. Pledging their service to their faith, and not dedicating themselves to driving away an extraterrestrial invader.
Remember that long before the shattering, the first Elden Lord was a general who took on the entire world to protect the Erdtree, and won. To where there were no more enemies to fight. The greater will started small, and grew in the face of extreme resistance to the ones who lived there before. Until all of those that did not pledge their loyalty, were dead, and therefore no longer a threat.
It also helps explain why so many organizations and people who were around since the early days turned their backs on the order and actively fought against it. As time went on, they learned that the Greater Will never loved them. They were just tools. Then once those tools were no longer useful, they were shelved. They were lied to.
I feel like the interpretation of a benevolent civilization come to help isn't true. That is the propaganda of the victor trying to paint a picture that sees their true intentions and feelings hidden behind a smile.
@@TheFlipFlopFatality I don't know if that's true. It seems too cynical, even for a Fromsoft game. They know better than that about belief systems that center on nature. Trees are the center of many spiritual beliefs across the world and reflect a connection to nature which is not a malevolent force, but is simply about survival and balance of all living things. I've seen a few theories about the Erdtree being connected to fungus and mushrooms which would be extraterrestrial in origin, but again that is not a parasite. In real world biology it is a symbiotic organism that coexists and helps nurish trees in the soil through their root systems and recycles dead biological matter into its food source. Which in turn gives room for new life to emerge in a completely healthy way.
Real forests thrive in this delicate balance which is an essential component of a complex ecosystem. I don't know how much of that translates to the story being presented, but as far as this system goes the state of the world is drastically changed when the balance is tipped one way or another or something is removed.
My thoughts on this are that everything in the game is heresay. One person's truth is another person's misunderstanding, and another's total falsehood based only on how they see it. Who knows the actual truth? Words like propaganda are often thrown around in times of war and when personal bias impedes judgement and the ability to look at things objectively. So who really knows the intentions of anyone really?
Is it a mushroom?
@@AC-hj9tv I'm not sure if the Erdtree itself is the mushroom but the idea here stems from the coexistence of trees and fungi in an ecosystem that recycles biological matter. My understanding of it comes from the idea of "mother" trees that are an elder tree in a forest that through this process essentially take care of all the other smaller trees though a mycilium fungus network in the soil. It acts like a community that sends messages between root systems, allocates resources to those in need, and even builds defences through toxins to ward off things like pests that may harm them. I'm fairly certain this is a thing that's happening in Elden Ring's world with the miner Erdtrees, Avatars, Miranda flowers, and the giant insects found underground and on Miquella's Haligtree.
Check out a video called "The Secret Language of Trees" by the channel Real Science. This is where I'm familiar with and referencing these concepts. :)
@@Dan_ModernDayViking very cool. Thank you
I still like the theory that the lands between means the lands between the living world and death, it would make sense why there r so many spirits roaming everywhere and how the tarnished needed to die before coming back to the Lands Between
Purgatory, until you find a way to bend it to your will or bend it to the will of the outer gods influences.
Wow this makes all sense. Thinking out side the box actually assist in mending all the things that are happening. This also explains who was Radagon - He was the parasite within Marika who wanted the Golden Order to be established and was trying to repair the elden ring but when a tarnished enters the Erd Tree he is forced to take form and fight one last time to save the greater will but he fails and greater will the GOD has to come and save himself and the order he has created. Therefore at the very end we see only the husk of Queen Marika, (I think she died when she shattered the elden ring) broken with only elden ring using the fractured husk as a vessel. She is successful in bringing in change except for the three fingers ending where Melina is challenged to find and put an end to us because three figers should have been heading the calls of another similar GOD like the elden beast who commands the two fingers. Maybe there could an elden beast with two heads who commands three fingers.
I believe The Lands Between are influenced by Irish mythology, particularly the land of Tír na nÓg, have a look into it and you'll see many similarities.
There's a lot of inspiration from various mythologies.
Definitely fitting!!
So I suppose she would correlate to Titania?
Your idea that Marika shattered the Elden Ring to free herself and the world makes sense. The only interactions we have seen between a Outer God and a god/empyrean has been between Malenia and the Outer God of Rot, and Miquella and the Formless Mother. In both cases the Outer God has overriding the god's/empyreans will to make them their servant. These beings are very insidious and It is likely that Marika shared the same kind of relationship with the Greater Will.
Hey Jake, I do like this theory, but I always thought that “The Lands Between” was always more straightforward than this. Many think that the Lands Between refers to a place between other continents, however I think that we need to think about this vertically as opposed to horizontally.
I think it is the Lands Between the Eternal City’s of below, which we can visit in game, and the floating city in the sky, which we can’t visit, but is discussed in various items including ruin fragments. This way the world is more like a sandwich and the Lands Between refers to the land between the great cities above and below.
Good theory, but most likely wrong. ''Between'' refers to places like the land of reeds, the badlands and numen, rather than a tiny temple above, and a city underground.
@@Zindril that's just your interpretation. That's never directly stated as the origin of the name. So his theory holds merit.
Just had to reply to say you were right 👍
One of the theories I have that seems to get the most pushback is that Marika and Radagon were not always the same person.
Their goals are opposed. Marika shattered the Elden Ring, and Radagon is trying to mend it.
I think Marika was made a vessel for the Elden Ring by the Greater Will to enact it's will upon the Land's Between. (I'm not entirely sure what the Greater Will hopes to achieve by this.) In the process, Marika became a goddess, a physical manifestation of the Elden Ring.
Somewhere along the line, Marika realized that she was being manipulated by the Greater Will, and "shattered" the Elden Ring. Marika IS the Elden Ring, in a sense, so she shattered herself (hence why she looks broken when we see her.)
The Greater Will needed to mend the Elden Ring, so it chose Radagon, a devout follower of the Golden Order, to "mend" the Elden Ring. The Greater Will "mended" the Elden Ring by fusing Radagon and Marika into one being.
In fact, I believe that "becoming Elden Lord" actually means fusing with Marika, or at least the Elden Ring itself. In every ending except Ranni's and Shabriri's, we are just fusing with the Elden Ring, with or without some extra runes to tweak the natural laws of the Lands Between.
In Shabriri's ending, we are just destroying the Elden Ring, along with the Lands Between. (I'm pretty sure Shabriri is the/a name for the Great Old One that embodies the Frenzied Flame.)
I'm not sure exactly what is happening in Ranni's ending. Is Ranni taking the power of the Elden Ring and rebuilding it in her own image? If so, how? Is she just "letting it die", in which case, does she have the power to make her own "Elden Ring" for her new order? Either way, Ranni would have to be IMMENSELY powerful, which would imply that Malenia and Miquella are as well (seeing as they are all Empyreans).
On a side note, unless you gather a Mending Rune, or do Ranni's or Shabriri's endings, you get the "Age of Fracture" ending, which implies that we are missing pieces of the Elden Ring. You get this ending, even if you defeat all shard bearers AND awaken their Runes. This means we are missing some Runes. My guess is that the DLC(s) for Elden Ring will add new shard bearers and that collecting them all (and possibly also awakening them) will grant a new ending, where we don't need a mending rune and we don't have a fractured world. What that ending looks like, I don't know.
Great theories, dude! Very well explained too!
I really hope it gives more ending opportunities, because while some seem better than others, nothing quite feels like the ending I'm looking for...
my thoughts on ranni's ending is that she's attempting to restore free will and worship of the stars to the lands between. like how the spell, ranni's dark moon, will absorb or block oncoming enemy spells, i think the moon that manifests in her ending is meant to absorb or block all influences of outer gods from the lands between.
Big stretch right there
@@carlosdario9810 *doesn't explain why*
Whoa
Not a bad theory at all.
@@eddyh5 thank you kindly :D
Nice to see the Marika vs Greater Will theory become more popular. I always beleived in it from the start.
This reminded me of a theory from destiny 1, about the Traveller and the enemies in the game( sorry I forgot their name). The theories is pretty much about how the Traveller are like a parasite, that give life to a world but will eventually deprived it of it resource and left the world to die, and the enemies are just the inhabitants from the world that the Traveller visited now dying.
It's been a long time since I kept up with destiny but I'm pretty sure that's true because the fallen had met the traveler they had a collapse because of the hive if I remember correctly and the hive had met The traveler I just don't think the cabal met the traveler until their former emperor decided to come to our solar system making his daughter the now empress come there but yeah that's pretty much it.
17:56
YES. I have been saying this since Demon's Souls.
In DeS, it explicitly shows you that killing the Old One doesn't release you from the Nexus. You return, seal intact, revived by the Maiden in Black (with a full unique cutscene) to repeat the process, showing that NG+n is canonical to it. Your character collapses to the ground in dejection. DeS has one world connected by archstones, and may or may not be on an archtree, but God itself (the Old One, that is) is a massive tree.
In Dark Souls, no matter how many people abandon the First Flame in DS1 to become Dark Lord, the sun will still be in the sky in DS3, meaning other people _did_ continue kindling the flame in your absence. Additionally, the area Ash Lake in DS1 shows us that the world there is built on an archtree, with several others visible (but inaccessible) in the distance.
In Bloodborne, the Hunter's Dream has several barren, archtree-esque wooden posts in the distance, which may be trunks. Additionally, no matter how many times we slay the Great Ones across all chalices, _there is always another where they yet live._ Whether we free Gehrman or let him free us, whether or not we become a Great One ourselves, there is still another hunter in another world making their own choices.
It's my favorite bit of lore across Miyazaki FromSoft works, oft overlooked.
I like the idea that there's a larger Miyazaki style omniverse and the games take place in different time periods and locations.i think that would explain the existence of archtree like structures in elden beasts room, the hunters dream and varying places in dark souls. I like to think that sekiro is an example of what the world would be like with far less involvement from outer gods of any sort(great ones, outer gods of ER) and before the current races evolution begin to reach godlike power. Bloodborne in my mind was only teleported to via the pain5ing not created by it, qnd 5hose arch trees might act as landmarks to let us know(by their differences) that were nearer to the gods of dreams and such. The golden architecture say we may be closer in Omniversal location to the greater will and its own kin. We also know there's some type of terrain to traverse in the space between multiverses both due to pvp in souls and that the greater will is affecting all our unis from a location far off in the distance.i think that there where it lives is a scource that is referred to by different names wich these entities are born, as we in ER know it the primeval stream. Going off in my previous point of omniverses, I think that the numan race may even be from the dark or demon souls world, wich I think would make sense as we the Tarnished have a rather oddly similar mission and start as the Ashen one.
And on time periods, I like to think all such ages are bound to happen in a cycle very similar to dark souls natural cycle, maybe regardless rannis goal would come to be with the movement of faith and their gods losing face, something akin to Ragnarok is bound to happen in like fias ending either before or after, the specifics just change. The continuance of the order is like the kindling of the fire, or maybe even a shoot off of the technique, and somewhere in there we would be bound to have semi normal bouts like bbs waking world and sekiros largely outer God free lands. But that's just q theory, a dumbasses theory. Thanks for reading
Isn’t demons souls God different than the old one? I thought God placed the old one on earth to keep his creation (aka humans) in check?
I like to think the Elden Beast is the true Elden Ring. Part of this is the fact when you attack it across the duration of the fight, it makes cracking sounds as if glass is breaking bit by bit. Keep in mind too the Elden Beast is considered one of the gods of the greater (outer) will, who reign supreme over the Lands Between and even the demigods. So, maybe the final fight with the Elden Beast is you shattering the Elden Ring once again, since Radagon was for protecting the Elden Ring whereas Marika tried to break it.
There is an additional thought I wanted to share which is that Marika took over the Reign from the dragon god which Placidusax is waiting for, frozen in time, because he was in charge when the Erdtree used to be the Crucible, and all remnants of the crucible turned to support Godfrey as well as Marika, supported by the fact that the dragon knight keeps Marikas shadow Maliketh contained and under surveillance, maybe it's a piece that fits into your picture as well. Also in my head Melina was Marikas cindermaiden, chosen to sacrifice herself so Marika could end the age of the Crucible in the first place, which I support with the fact that she is tied with destined death, a power which only was in place before Marikas reign and kept a secret all the way. Maybe it is just my rambling but I hope it at least evokes some deeper thought s for y'all
I think the greater will legitimately thought the player character would bend to it's every whim and severely underestimated your critical thinking skills or the amount of help you'd receive. Maybe both
One interesting thing I haven't seen discussed is how/why the Elden Beast is using gravity magic. Aside from the transition to the weird final fight arena, you never see the elden ring/beast associated with that kind of magic.
I always kinda interpreted, the lands between, as being the lands between life and death (stuck in neverending stagnation and no true deaths)
It might be silly to try to support a theory with another theory, but I really liked how you described the pillars in Eldenbeast's arena as trunks to different dimensions. When I first saw them, I couldn't help but to think of the Hunter's dream, where you saw quite similar pillars surrounding the area - I've always thought that these were the different 'dreams' / worlds of all the other hunters we met or... well, other players.
Is interesting to imagine that the numem race itself was created by the greater will using dragon scale in order to have immortal champions to use in diferents lands. Like Marika for exemple seems to be made out of stone in the Final cutscene.
Hmmm
The Greater Will is not a parasite, it's a belief system (absolute order) inside a paradigm (order & caos).
The Elden Lord is a vassal who imposes this belief (absolute order).
The Elden Ring is the current paradigm that reigns (order & caos).
The Elden Beast is an avatar of this god (absolute order).
There are many gods in The Lands Between that enforces a belief inside a paradigm but don't reign.
I just noticed that the into cinematic shows both Marika and then Radagon. The two flashes at the start which are strikes on the Elden Ring by one then the other. It showed us from the beginning that they were/are one person.
Your focus is pulled to the bright flash of light that is centered on the forge, it’s a slight change in clothing and body shape. From a female form in a dress to a male form bare chested.
Is there a "We're in miquella's Dreamworld" theory yet?
The OSRS music during the sponsorship part is incredible. Impossible to skip through that. Good move sir 👏
You touched on part of my theory briefly, here is mine.
Bare with me here, these are just theories but I hope you will find them interesting. Please read to the end for full understanding of my theory.
It seems fairly obvious to me that the second Round Table Hold that you find in Leyndell is the in the current timeline and the one Melina brings you to is in the past since the one in Leyndell is identical but dilapidated. The biggest clue to this is the description of the Coded Sword that is found upon the throne of the Two Fingers in the Leyndell version of the Round Table Hold:
"Hidden sword once granted to the Tarnished of the Roundtable by the Two Fingers. A formless cipher comprises its blade, which deals holy damage no shield can repel. Champions would gather at the Roundtable Hold in days long past, when the Two Fingers were masters of oration, their flesh yet full of vigor."
Its not a secret that many believe that Ranni the Witch is Melina, and time travel would highly support this since Ranni’s real body is long dead. So Melina could be the past version of Ranni.
In my theory, the event of the shattering actually fragmented reality itself, making different times as well as realities collide. I believe some characters are aware of this phenomenon, and some are not.
Possible effected characters:
Melina:
Melina is Ranni Support for this theory is:
1) Ranni has a ghostly figure next to her that shares an eye with her, the eye is closed and would match Melina’s closed eye, it even has a similar symbol underneath.
2) Both Ranni and Melina fade away in similar fashion.
3) Both Ranni and Melina know Torrent
Millicent:
I think Millicent is Malenia, either from the past or from an alternate reality. Her ‘sisters’ could be from alternative realities as well (making 6 versions in all, more on that later) support for this theory includes:
1) her missing the same arm
2) her knowing the water foul dance
3) Gowry saying “No, she must embark on her journey, and stare her fate in the eye.” when speaking of her visiting Malenia at the Halig Tree.
4) Millicent believes she is related to Malenia in some way but can’t even ponder it herself, even mentioning she might be an “offshoot” of some kind.
5) Gowry when speaking of her death and personal decision to take out the needle he remarks “Millicent... Malenia... Do you detest us, so utterly?” of course he can be speaking of 2 people, but with everything else in consideration it can certainly be seen both ways.
All of this of course would mean that Gowry is aware of the fragmentation of reality.
Goldmask:
I believe Goldmask is part of a paradox within the fragmented reality. Him wanting to study the Golden Order leads him to actually creating it! His ‘mending rune of perfect order’ would end up becoming the ‘Golden order’ An interesting revelation I had is that Goldmask is very similar to the 2 fingers, as he does not speak and moves his arms (and fingers) in a method of communication. Brother Corhyn even mentions this a few times.
Other loose possibilities:
Abducted Miquella is from the past alternate reality as he is in his seedling form before he was able to sprout into the Haligtree
Jar Barin becomes Alexander when he absorbs his heart.
One of the more important parts of my theory is that every alternative reality is governed by each of the six endings or (ages) being the perfect number as I mentioned earlier there are six alternate versions of Malenia/Millicent. Each possible age all ready has influence in the lands between even though they have not happened yet as they are all part of this fragmented timeline and clash of alternate realities.
When an NPC invades it does so from another world or ‘reality’ the Urd tree and minor Urd trees act as conduits to the link between these worlds explaining why when you kill Urd Tree Avatars certain NPC invaders can no longer invade.
When the Urd tree is set ablaze the the link is weakened causing the fire to seep into the time rift which results in the past version of the round table hold burning down, leading to it’s eventual current state that you find it in Leyndell.
Another thought is about Melina's hands: Melina has scar tissue on her hands. This could mean she has been the burning maiden before in previous ages, she keeps trying to fix the broken timeline, in every age (alternate reality).
"The Lands Between" might also be a slight nod to Berserk's "MidLand" or even the Interstice/Fantasia. Honestly a lot possible there.
There are many, many references to berserk scattered all through out the game and we know Berserk was one of Miyazaki's biggest influences. Dark Souls is more beloved as a Berserk game than the actual Berserk games.
Thank you for helping me figure out the roots with eyes are from Godwyn. I always noticed the ones in the catacombs, but not near his body so I never figured out where they originated from.
At 14:30 you say that death would be known for the first time but, didn't we restored destined death when we defeat maliketh? Because in the mending rune of the death prince says:
Formed of the two hallowbrand half-wheels combined, it will embed the principle of life within Death into Order.
The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.
Because it says death restored but also embed the principle of life within Death, i think it is not the same as with only the rune of death.
Also i like your theory.
It's interesting how (almost) every character from the intro is connected to an ending.
Hoarah Loux - Age of Fracture (After Morgott's body disappears, we can see the guidance of grace pointing Godfrey towards us, 'cause the Greater Will thinks we want to get rid of Its influence given that We burned the Erdtree; If Godfrey had won, He would probably choose to mend the Elden Ring in the Greater Will's favor).
Goldmask - Age of Order
Fia - Age of the Duskborn
Dung Eater - Age of Despair
Gideon Ofnir - Something else eniterly - we do nothing. (No in-game ending; still probably would favor Marika's beliefs)
Also, we can see 'stars' or 'cosmos' inside those circular teleports in the Lands Between, so the huge Moon in the Age of Stars' ending being a teleport is pretty much undeniable. What interests me though is that, in Ranni's ending, this Moon is collapsing into itself, and in the edge between the moon and the teleport where the Moon is being collapsed to are stars and galaxies, so it may be the visualization of "The Moon guiding the stars", and the Moon actually BEING the cosmos and stars, like a being controlling the cosmos, with Moon being its visual respresentation.
The collapsing on itself Moon looks like a big Astel eye
I had a pretty bad year myself and it just so great to see someone rebuild themselves to what you have Jake keep it up
i've given a look at the endings be4 i eventually finish my first run, but i just rly don't like any of the endings. all of them feel like bad endings, and we just choose whose corrupt ideology we decide to implement (or simply do nothing and let the world continue suffering as it is). the age of the stars felt the closest one to a good ending, weren't for the part where we just skedaddle and let the world slowly die. i don't trust Ranni, she could just be lying like literally everyone else and making us just leave the world forever pushes me away from trusting her even more.
the only character i feel like i can trust in this game is Alexander. heck, just lemme have an age of the jar ending and it'll already be better for me
Elden ring is one big boss battle we cross the fog into the lands between which is the bosses name. The rest of the game is just a long battle with a big tree. Miazaki really liked bed of chaos so wanted to make a boss fight with even more unessassery steps.
I'd like to say that I love these kinds of theories.
BUT
Time has proven that the more a theory needs to speculate, the bigger it falls flat when DLC and other stuff is released XD
(I still haven't watched the entire video tho)
Just got through the intro and DUUUUDE this is going to be a wild ride! Hell yes, always love your videos, so lets GOOOOO!
It’s nice to see something a bit newer on the lore scene I haven’t seen anything on this theory so love new stuff. Keep it up love watching when I’m high 😂
I love the OSRS music during the ad 😂
Great video, I enjoyed it. Thank you man.
(First of all, sorry for explaining all over the place and bad English)
I HAVE A THEORY, that Marika and radagon were not the same before, but fused somehow.
I believe that radagon was to Marika what blaid was to ranni, a shadow given by the 2 fingers to go mad if they refused the greater will.
I believe that once Marika refuses the greater will, radagon went full hostile against her, just like we see bliad becoming hostile at the end of ranni's quest.
Marika knew this, so she sent radagon to Raya lucaria in hopes that he would be defeated by Rennala, and while he was away Marika pit her plan to motion.
Radagon, receiving order from the 2 fingers, leaved rennala and went back to Marika to confront, just as he was programed like blaidd, and this is the moment when they became one. I believe that during that time, Marika found a way to fuse 2 beings into 1, and used that knowledge to fuse ragadon onto herself, taking full control of him.
Until Marika tries to break the elden ring, where she's unable to control radagon anymore, hence why you see in the intro cinematic both in the exact same place, one fixing it and the other breaking it.
Marika dies at this point, while radagon becomes a puppet made to protect the greater will inside the Erdtree. Why I say a puppet? Well during his fight if you pay attention, you'll notice that some of his moves seem unnatural, like he's not moving on his own, he moves like a puppet beings pulled by the strings, this is mostly noticeable when he randomly changes target completely out of nowhere.
Sorry if this is all over the place, I'm still trying to find a way of explaining it without it becoming too complex.
I confused myself, I need to get better at explaining
Pain
A couple things... Malekith was Marika's shadow, so unless she had two, Radagon wasn't in that role. He certainly still could have been manipulated by the Greater Will though. The other thing is that, as I understand it, Marika *can't* die, as Destined Death is sealed within Malekith (until we come along, anyway). The Greater Will seems to have chosen to immobilize and imprison her/them within the main Erdtree instead.
Yes, that Marika & Radagon were fused. You can see this from Melina’s dialogue “O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.” And yes before the merger was completed, she managed to shatter the Elden Ring first. “Queen Marika is driven to the brink,” as said by the narrator.
Also no, that Radagon is the leal hound of the Golden Order and with that, the shadow of Marika is Maliketh. Why Maliketh is not hostile to Marika is because finally Marika is Radagon, who’s loyal to the Golden Order. The Marika-Maliketh pairing happened a long ago, when Marika was still just an Empyrean just like Ranni. Radagon has nothing to do with it, except when directly ordered by the Golden Order, its incarnation the Elden Beast.
I agree with the trunks in the Elden Beast arena representing multiple dimensions or perhaps "worlds". The Elden Beast looks very much like "the great attractor", a cosmological theory of the movement of galaxies throughout the universe. What guides them? The Greater Will is clearly supposed to be that force, and indeed is named similarly. The arena is our chance to see the inconceivably vast influence the Greater Will has on the entire fucking universe.
I love the wild theorizing a lot more, since once you're free of trying to 'prove' your interpretation is correct, you can just... make interesting speculation and then follow through on interpreting *why* that sequence of events is meaningful and thematically interesting.
Could you do a video on the finger readers? They are such a fascinating figure and I was very curious when I first saw that huge amount of them dead close to Marikas chamber on Lyndell
In my own world that I have been world building, when you are born you are given a divine soul from the gods which allows you to wield magic, but in my version of christian judgment day, the ones who refused the god's offer are the only ones to live, as the god of shadows steals the souls of all that oppose him. This is kind of similar the the sight if grace in my opinion, and being reborn through the Elden tree: It is heavily implied to be a holy thing but really I believe it to be an inescapable, grotesque cycle of torture in which you are enslaved to the greater will.
Knowone really knows but the games creators…but I figured the lands between meant between life and death. A purgatory….
I was thinking the same
The exact same
This is a great culmination of ideas that bring this theory about! Love this sort of content from you, sir! Very unique set of speculations and concepts. 🙏🏼 keep it up.
I listened to everything your wonderful theory stated, but all I could picture was Lady Maria kicking my ass a million times.
I'm sure others have pointed it out, but that moon has galaxies in it. As Obi wan says: "That moon ain't right."
Yeah, it's definitely a curiosity, and the way they warp and distort is probably why AgtJake guesses that Ranni's dark moon is, itself, a sending gate (・∀・)
Ranni's ending was mistranslated significantly, you should check out what it's actually supposed to say before examining it. Iirc it was supposed to be you and her going on the 1000 year voyage, to take the godly power away from humanity who would wreak havoc and disparity with it, and remove it from the world.
Can't wait for the next theory that changes everything
Another important point is that this theory woukd make it make sense lorewise how we could summon eachother, and when you do summon someone it says the'yre being brought to your world, and for them it says they're being brought to another world, and i think that right there is undenyable evidence
I think that the Perfect Order ending actually helps the Greater Will. To explain, Goldmask's entire goal was to prevent "the gods no better than men" from changing the Golden Order, namely Marika and Radagon. I think that by perfecting the Golden Order, you are returning it to the control of its original creator, the Greater Will.
Now, it could be interpreted that by "gods no better than men" Goldmask was referring to the Outer Gods, but I highly doubt that this is the case, as much as I'd like to believe it to be the truth. Remember that Goldmask views the Golden Order as an equation rather than a philosophy, which leads me to believe that he'd be much more inclined to serve the Outer God of Order than the fickle goddess Marika.
But these are just my thoughts based on what I know about Elden Ring's lore.
Edit: Credit goes to SmoughTown for the research on Goldmask.
Elden Ring is SYMBOLIC. It's a lot like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings in that way, unsurprising given it was written by Martin. I actually think Martin did a reasonable job, no it isn't up to Tolkien's standards, but nothing ever will be. So I suggest instead of worrying about timeline inconsistencies, look at the symbology of the events. I suspect that asking "where are the Lands Between" is like asking "where is Heaven".... some people may be able to give you an answer, and those will vary greatly, as do opinions on what all this means. It's not as simple as saying "this one thing means something", because it isn't that type of story... it's more like a collection of metaphors and symbolic concepts, and while the Lord of the Rings certainly has a very simple surface layer "plot" (go to Mt Doom and destroy the One Ring) we all know it is so much deeper, hence the reason it is loved so much. Elden Ring and The Lord of the Rings both share a deep sense of mythology, because in a way, they are both trying to be like the Bible.
although i do agree with you, i wouldn't say that elden ring is symbolic because of Martin having written the base for the world. Rather the nature of From's games in general, dark souls, bloodborne etc. are all just as full of symbolism as elden ring. but because of that it is that From and Martin made such a good team because he like tolkien also leans heavily into symbolism in his stories.
The lands between seems like a random island hidden in the fog. Radahns arena shows shipwrecks as do many other beaches they also mention many other countries. It's quite unlike bloodborne where I feel like the "dream" is an actual dimension that you're trapped in.
Particularly as there's also the Land of Reeds.
3:31 "Try to keep an open mind." Dumbledore said calmly.
To me the different players worlds, the dreams, the waking world, the “Old Ones, Great Ones”, Marvelous Chester, to it Ties to Bloodborne .
I believe we will see the Prince of Death in DLC , I feel he’s not dead just separated like Ranni but his spirit is in a different world
Great theory on Marika's plans. I've been suspecting that she was involved in the night of black knives and this strengthens my suspicion.
Also, there are quotes referring to Marika as the one giving and taking grace away. That explains why even the Dung Eater is being guided by grace, given that he openly opposes the Greater Will. He's an asset in Marika's personal war.
I love this. I think Smough's dissection just covers more bases in exonerating Marika, but knowing he had to dig so hard to do that, means that this theory is/was very solid in general.
I think you're right about Marika' wanting change, but I think (after watching like 90 videos at this point over and over lol) she was only spurred to do so after Godwyn died as a part of Ranni's selfishness. She's painted as a lover/heroine, but in actuality, we are also being used by her as well.
I never realized the moon in the end is a huge sending gate, which BLEW MY FRICKIN MIND, so thanks for that. I'm making a Dnd campaign based off of the Elden Ring story, and this is awesome content and lore to have!
Holy snapper, that DS2 music fits perfectly for that dialoge with the old finger maiden!
I think you might be onto something.
However, I would go one step further: The Greater Will, in order to control fate and destiny, decided to have multiple parallel universe run at the same time, send their emissary (the Two fingers) in every universe to guide the development of the universes, and when one universe reached a satisfactory state it will merge with the primary universe: the Lands Between.
Which would make the Lands Between a universe from which would spawn all other universes, a universe that is special and chosen unlike all of others. A little like the golden child of all the other universes. Which would match perfectly with the symbol of the Greater Will dynasty: the Golden Tree.
It would expect a looooot of things such as why did Radagon left all of the sudden Renalla and why his children are considered demi god and Empyrean ?
Because the Greater Will realized that he didn't need a real Elden Lord anymore, so he merged the Lands Between with a reality where he chose the last descendant of the Fire Giants to rule over the world instead of Marika, which would merge both Marika and Radagon together.
If Radagon and Marika are the same person, how to explain Miquella and Malenia ? Created due to a merge with a reality where these children existed.
Now, the elephant in the room: what happened during the shattering ? My guess is that Ranni found out what the Greater Will has been doing, and tried to escape from that plan.
During that plan, Godwyn died, and since the Elden Ring was not complete the Greater Will couldn't merge universes to fix that.
Either in a desperate attempt to save her son, or to enact revenge toward the Greater Will, Marika destroyed the remaining of the Elden Ring which triggered the Shattering. And so, in order to "save the world" the Greater Will decided to merge all universe at once to choose champions whose task would be to save the Elden Ring (the tarnish).
But by doing so, it brought things it never intended, like Milena from a world where the Dusk eyed Queen was not dead, the other "exotic" runes you can collect from Gold Mask, Fia or Dung Eater which are "mutated" runes from other world, and even something like Farum Azula.
Queen Maria is from the lands of numens which confirmed when choosing a keep sake or base template
Fantastic into, cinematic as hell and love you using the ER music. Such a good soundtrack
I interpret The Lands Between to be a reference to Berserk's planes of existence. You have the Mortal World, that looks like our own, with no supernatural elements. The Ideal World, where the gods reside. And in between you have the Astral World, filled with mythical monsters, and where gods have a much stronger influence (due to the Astral World being closer to the Ideal World).
Perhaps Ranni's ending is the player journeying to the Ideal World?
This could be supported by Master Hewg’s prayer to Merika. He’s basically asking her to forgive him for failing to kill a god, and that failure is why she was so angry with him that he was made a prisoner.
I think it was Hewg that imbued death into the weapons of the black knife assassins, but the weapons failed to kill Godwyn completely, leaving his body alive and corrupted.
That doesn’t really work with the idea that his body was meant to weaken the Erd tree, but it’s clear to me that Merika was involved in Godwin’s death.
Great video! I agree with most of what you said, however, I do not believe Ranni intends to take the rest of humanity to another world. I think only the Tarnished and Ranni will leave for a thousand-year voyage under the Dark Moon, whilst everyone else is left behind to grow and live on their own without the negative influence and meddling of anymore Gods. As that doesn't make any sense with what Ranni said about faith being physically disconnected from one's senses, if they're all traveling with their God and her Lord the whole time.
Also, the Greater Will isn't what gives the Tarnished their grace, it is Marika based on what Melina has said throughout the game. Even the Two Fingers who serve it were confused and tried to commune with it to understand why the Tarnished were locked out of the Erdtree if the Greater Will wants them to become Elden Lord. It's like Varre said, the Two Fingers got fucked up when the Elden Ring was shattered, and they're just spouting senile delusions and have no clue what is actually going on.
Just look here:
"Very well. In Marika's own words. My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace.
With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die.
Well? Perhaps that might serve you in lieu of a maiden's guidance.
In Marika's own words.
Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed.
Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring.
Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey." Then, when you combine this with the intro showing Marika's statue hovering over all the Tarnished's tombs as they arise it's pretty clear it is Marika's guidance the Tarnished are receiving.
The nostalgia from the Runescape music playing during the advertisment is real
Considering 'the lands between' is obviously a reference to 'midgard' there very well maybe indeed other 'universes' such as the 'badlands' where hoara loux and his warriors and also most of the tarnished come from. So yeah, there very well might be other such places that aren't actually other continents (even though we can see other landmasses eastward when looking from some of the coasts) but lands "above" and "under" the "lands between".
I tend to see the lands bewtween as something like H.P. lovecrafts dreamlands as they share many similarities couple that with the fact that in bloodborne your meant to die right at the start and wakeup in a dream wich seems to have been repeated in elden ring and i think that fits well with this theory
I believe that the Greater Will is a metaphor for us the player and that the different fingers represented the player's hand which inputs the player's will. In this same context, you can kind of think of the Elden beast as a "controller" and the various runes that make up the Elden ring as the different buttons on that controller. Great video btw!!
Wow. I loved this video; at the end of my playthrough I also had the impression that the outer gods acted pretty much like parasites to the gods in The Lands Between, but this theory explores that idea in a very interesting and well-written way. Subscribed!
The hole in Liunia is there before Alexander gets stuck in it. So they are not caused by him teleporting.
Wow…the idea of Alexander fell from the sky never came to my mind,such a cool idea,thank u
To understand Marika, you need to understand her inspiration, Mārīcī, and Fromsoft tradition of criticising Buddhism.
Marika's inspiration is Mārīcī, (Sanskrit: मारीची, lit. "Ray of Light"; Chinese: 摩利支天; pinyin: Mólìzhītiān; Japanese: Marishiten), is a Buddhist god (devi )or goddess, as well as a bodhisattva associated with light and the Sun. Furthermore, Mārīcī was equated with Virgin Mary symbolism by first Europeans who learned of her.
Best example that shows Marika was inspired by Mārīcī, is that while she is mostly seen as female deity, she actually has male aspect/alter ego that is god and protector of warfare, warriors and combat.
To understand Marika's inspiration is to understand Marika and her motives and goals.
Mārīcī's goal is to help and "usher" mankind into an enlightenment.
And I believe so is Marika's, by manufacturing eternal, unending conflict.
First and most important lesson of Buddhism is that life is suffering. Only by freeing oneself from the meaningless illusion of life one can be free and achieve state of non-being that liberates you from pain and cycle of reincarnations. Just like Golden Order encourages/forces people to reincarnate.
In the Buddhist context, nirvana refers to realization of non-self and emptiness, marking the end of rebirth by stilling the fires that keep the process of rebirth going. Nirvana (nibbana) literally means "blowing out" or "quenching.
Mārīcī/Marika's goal is to make mankind realise the grand illusion through eternal conflict, until they quench the flame of ambition that drives them on, finally freeing themselves from the pain and cycle of rebirth by.
This is Mārīcī/Marika's design that made Gideon Ofnir afraid, as he realized their god had betrayed her own religion and society to usher all people into non-being.
If Marika wanted to have her revenge against Greater Will, nothing would be better way to accomplish this, than to allow fire that drives all life slowly be quenched.
In this sense, Marika is similar to Sister Friede and Prince Lothric, but willing to actually become martyr for what she believes in, content to be crucified to lead mankind into "salvation".
If you quit playing Elden Ring without finishing the game, or get the most simple Age of Fracture ending, Marika essentially wins.
Mārīcī is the most fearsome villain in Soulsborne history. She is the prophet/envoy of non-being and apathy, and intends to take all the world with her into nothingness.
God Mask understood this, and begged Greater Will to save the world from fickle and zealous gods.
I've always thought the same, "the lands between what?" My hypothesis is the lands between life itself. ie Heaven for lack of a better world. Look around the game. the whole place is literally built apon death. In our home across the fog, sounds to me like to get to the lands between you have to die in what ever place you inhabit currently.
●I got the frenzied flame my first playthrough, but i sacrificed melina to the flame by beforehand as well, i didnt know that she comes after you when you become frenzied flame, i felt bad for the lands between afterwards because no one can stop me
Something I wonder is why was Godwyn "the first to die", and who else died?
I think the first is not hard to make reasonable speculation - Godwyn was the golden child, the heir apparent. He was a Golden Order fundamentalist. Killing him was a blow to the Order and the Greater Will. Left alive, Godwyn would have rallied the Order and the faithful, taken down the rebellion (even if it meant killing family), and replaced Marika.
The headless bodies in the walking mausoleums are said to be the remains of demi-gods. That... is pretty much all we know. We don't even have names to give these bodies. I think it's safe to speculate these are the others implied to have died. But who were they? Why did they also die? Maybe these were also hard-line fundamentalists, taken out by the Black Knives to further weaken the Order?
I had a different feeling about Marika. I feel that she planned the downfall of the GW by giving birth to her children and letting in all the outer gods creep in through the suffering of her children, what more of a tragic story can you get.
Great video, but we actually do have a rough idea of how long Marica has been around imo. Check the piles of tablets in the queens chambers bonfire room before the elden throne
Its stacks and stacks of cuneiform record keeping tablets
Awesome video AgtJake. I love that you are taking your time your time with the lore to better understanding it.
I would like to share something dire to the lore of Elden Ring. But first I would first like to share a very important detail; I implore you read this AgtJake.
Elden ring: "In our home, across the fog, The Land Between."
Demon's Souls: "That is, until the colorless fog swept across the land."
Dark Souls: "The world was unformed, shrouded with fog."
What a strange coincidence, don't you think? These examples of fog being used are all from the intro cinematics. Something else which is big is when you meet The Monumental from Demon's Souls is that they say, "In order to mend the fabric of what land still remained, we entrusted six leaders with precious Archstones". Another thing I found is that at the very beginning of Demon's Souls, we see our character, surrounded in fog, enter a fissure to enter Bolitaria. I am not sure what to make of these discoveries, which is why I wanted to share them with you all. There may be more connections with fog in other SoulsBorne games, so make sure to be on the lookout. Thank you for reading.
The map is literally the shape of a furled finger like the one to lay down your sign.
I'd like to say that summons and how they work in elden ring really helps your theory.
You can never actually see another player character in the flesh, thus maybe your just summoning another version of them just like your NPC spirit ashes which can be independent of the flesh character. Similar for invading your simply entering another world in a literal sense.
Idk but seems like a good theory as spirit ashes and summons all seem very important in lore
Awesome theory but I'm still trying to figure out how and why Marika was able to "break" from the will's control to break the ring.
what are the Odds Marika grew tired of the Two Fingers and The Greater Will's Aspect of Order and the shattering of the Elden Ring was the result of Her communing with the Three Fingers and becoming Frenzied?
Excellent point,infact. Erdtree seems like a parasite but act like a fungus. Or more imitates the fungus cycle,which is expelling the leafs into the soil so can soil turn them into nourishment for the Erdtree. The only q is why and with what purpouse is doing so. The roots in the dungeon confirm its origins of the fungus. And fungus seems works for the best for it self and envirointment,well,it has to,in order to have good nourishment product. Is there something deeper? Damn,yes..like a world which has been pulled over our eyes. Even the empyrians are worning the tarnished bout this. Are they our guidance,long lost?
Marika comes from the lands of the Numen (likely the Eternal Cities). She only became a goddess **after** the Greater Will arrived to the Lands Between. "The goddess Marika originally came from the lands of the Numen. She was an empyrean who ascended to godhood and became ruler of the Lands Between with the assistance of an Outer God: the Greater Will".
I loved that you mentioned the multiple trunks within the elder beast and how it could be a representation of infinite possibilities, each a different tarnished, it was what I thought first seeing it. Also I think that it's a representation of the Elden Beast itself, since it's also made of golden branches, in a way you could think that's is time and space itself taking just a inferior representation of itself to be comprehended by the tarnished. Also I don't think that the moon is a literal portal, but a representation of power and will of a being, likely in this case a outer good, the moon itself... We see this same phenomena across our journey, when we fight Renala and then Ranni intervene or fighting Astel, that transforms a cave into a infinite cosmos... The being is so powerful that it's mere presence bends reality itself, like the erdtree phase the worlds and planes into themselves, with makes me think the great will is time and space itself, hence a hole different level of power and interference from the outer gods
Merica trying to conquer death for her favorite son reminds me of Freya and the death of Baldur.