This Elden Ring Theory Changed My Mind
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
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ELDEN RING Shadow of the Erdtree takes players beyond the Lands Between to explore the Land of Shadow, a completely new world from ELDEN RING. Players can seamlessly travel back and forth between its vast maps interspersed with diverse situations and meticulous dungeons where menacing enemies roam.
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i also think its actually a pretty solid idea even if i think that the og theory creator doesnt know enough about the lore to understand all the theories implications.
also i personally feel that melina is more akin to the marika, radagon situation with it being miquella was the original personality and melina/trina was her own person and perhaps the adult version of trina being so terrifying was actually the version of her we saw during the flame of frenzy ending and her purple eye isnt the gloam eye of the gloam eyed queen but the sleep magic within her AND that puts even more about 'her mother' into perspective as she would be talking as her purpose from 'her mother' actually techincally being to miquella and it was just to st. trina by proxy
Holly shet two replay now is my chance, Fia is Fortissax :D
Jake!!! Fia is Fortissax names shorten as dragon shorten into maidens item descriptions lanseax is Lanea
Rya doesn't teleport you, they just skip the travel sequence because who wants to follow an NPC that insanely far?
At this point Miquella is Miyazaki himself
Hidetaka Miquellazaki.
Miquellaki*
@@tasosplat3589 St. Trina is in a sleep swamp, and is Miquella, and Miyazaki loves Swamps. Simple. Miquellaki.
best girl for real
Thanks for the support, Jake! And I’m glad you liked the upbeat jams. I need this DLC immediately
The man , the myth , the legend.
Music is good, maybe a little loud at times, though? Anyway, thanks for the theory, Tim, looking forward to whatever you're cooking up next.
@@zefft.f4010 Noted! I’m definitely lowering it a bit in my next video. Working on a Land of Shadow speculation video now!
Hi @timdiggity thanks for that great Video
Please let me add some great Thinks to bring us all to more great Content.
1. St.Trina aka Melina alias Miquella is also the One who established the Maiden System and whom the Maidens drew their Power from similar to how the Godskins Channeled there Power from the Gloam-Eyed Queens Flame, the Maidens Channel there’s trough St.Trinas Flame aka Miquellas Torch. Melina was the Only one who had to look for a Flame, that is the purpose given to her.
2. Originally Torrent is from the Land of Shadows Miquella created him there. In the DLC Trailer someone said: I’m asking myself what “kind” Miquella was doing there. What he meant is what kind of creatures is Miquella creating in the Land of Shadows with the Help of Unalloyed Gold and all his Wisdom he gathered in the Lands Between. Fun Note: “Kind” means Child in German🫥
The Whistle is Made out of Unalloyed Gold and summons Torrent from the “Land of Shadows”. If the Crucible is really in the Land of Shadows that would explain alot.
3. Maidens are related to that Hand Gesture and someone in the Lands Between hunted them down. We don’t really know the Full Story about that Topic but I hope the DLC will give us those kind of answers.
4. Divesting thy Flesh -
Yes Fromsoftware but with “What” and how “much” of it is something all of Marikas Children did, some willingly and others did not even had a Choice…
I believe it’s a criteria if those Demigod children want to ascend. Gideon said that all of us should continue to struggle unto eternity because the Rune of Death was sealed and no one really died in the Lands Between because of Marika/Radagon.
5. I believe Melina/Miquella dislikes the Frenzied Flame because that was originally the Worst possible outcome for the Lands Between. Please consider that what happened or what we will find in the Land of Shadows is either older than the 2 or 3 Fingers established Existence and Working Mechanics or worse than the Frenzied Flame Ending because why wouldn’t Marika Hide something like that from the Lands. Maybe the Fingers and the Divine Towers are originally from the Land of Shadows. And in the Frenzied Flame Ending it looks like Melina is even stronger and threatens the Lord of Frenzied Flame.
6. The Black Knive Assassins are presumably Scions of the Eternal City and Godwyn is the Scion of the Golden Bough. Maybe his children or his personal Maidens who betrayed him. Maybe Maidens are all related to the Golden Lineage.
I hope I could help the Community
I have more but let’s Stop here Thanks
Where can I find this music? Can you share some names of the tracks? I was thinking maybe it is from Nier?
Messmer being the one in the egg instead of Miquella is reminiscent of the Cuckoo bird, which is an important symbol and hints at a deeper Carina connection
he just put some dude in there then?
Either Messemer or some as of right now unknown random guy. The body does closely resemble Morgott after we defeat him, who in turn resembles the guy in the paintings with Marika that we later see trying to remove a real nasty splinter from...his entire body. From the shoulders down, Morgotts corpse resembles the headless demigod bodies in the Mausoleums, so whoever is in the egg, they are a demigod of some sort
@@Coast2CoastFlyin i theorized long ago that the body morphed into an omen like creature because the omen blood of Mogh. and Maybe Mogh original body also looks like Morgott corpse when we defeat him
I could kind of understand why people would think that, but I don’t think it’s the case for one reason: Miquella was kidnapped way after Messmer waged war. From what we see, the hidden war was long ago, and was right after the Golden Order was made. So, it’d be really confusing if Messmer waged war, then got possessed by Miquella somehow, and now he’s just a corpse in an egg.
Maybe the real Miquella was the friends we made (and got killed) along the way.
Lmao
And you know what's wild? you know what they say, Sleep and Death are cousins.
Sleep is the “cousin” of death.
@@satorrotas93in Jungian psychology (which is what Elden Ring is partially based on) sleep, or more specifically lucid dreaming and interpretation are used as tools to communicate with the unconscious aspects of yourself.
This practice leads to shattering of the Persona/social mask that we all wear. As well as a confrontation with the Shadow which is the repressed and/or unacceptable aspects of ourself.
It goes much deeper than this but that's a decent start.
... but not one in the same. Even still, after hearing this I don't think they are tye same.
It's more evidence for torrent being him then her
Gotta find that gold, man. It annoys me when people scoff at the pretty clear.philosphical themes in these games. Spot on.
Bit of nietzchian "frenzy=nihilism / affirmation of life being a good thing"
as well (be but mainly yungian, yes)
The egg will grab us, then if we have collected the M's from all bosses that start with M, a giant M will apear, flip upside down and the screen will shake as we enter the WUMBO realm!
😭😭😭😭
*PEAK FICTION INTENSIFIES!!!*
The all powerful demigod whose name strikes fear into the hearts of his adversaries, and his name is Mark. Fear him!
EUREKA!!! If Miquella and Melina are like two halves of the same being, like Radagon and Marika, then EACH half has its own alter ego! St. Trina is the alter ego of the Miquella half, and The Gloam Eyed Queen is the alter ego of the Melina half. BOOM!💥
Methamphetamine
Or st Trina is the gloam eyed queen
Didn't the gloam eyed queen exist well before the birth of Miquella and even before the elden beast landed in the lands between?
@@mynameisurl1073 Do we have any actual confirmation on when Micky and Malenia were born? Not that i can remember. I think the game wants us to be confused on this aspect, and personally i think the divine twins were born far before the Carian kids.
Ohhhhh I like this!!! Helps a lot with the alternatives, could also be like Greek gods and they're different names gods have been called over so much time!!
The reason for Mohg saying "Dearest Miquella" to the corpse is that he was in the Shadow Realm together with Miquella but had to peace out when you showed up
Actually more believable than Melina being him.
"Comely" is an old word for attractive or pretty.
"She's a comely lass, and quite jolly"
Make sure to not confuse it him "homely" if you go around complimenting people.
He's Miquella, He's Miquella, you're Miquella - I'M MIQUELLA!
Are there any OTHER Miquellas I should know about?!
trump is miquella bro everytime he goes to sleep his second personality kicks in
*meows in miquella*
Whoever is Miquella, please put me to sleep until the dlc is released. This wait feels like an eternity.
22:00 to add to your suspicion, the voice we all assume to be Miquella's says "touch THE withered arm" not "MY withered arm" - feels like one of those details Fromsoft like to hide in plain sight
Holy macaroni
Imagine if this turns out to be true melina's "I'm no maiden" becomes literal lmao
So all this time we would actually be Maidenless?
Jokes on you I'm into that
I'm still in the camp that Melina is Messmer's alter ego, the one he divested himself of the first time he burned the entree, which is why she is also deadset on burning the erdtree as well. Both of them also have their left eye shut.
but messmer has dragon comunion eyes
@assgardiano Melinas right eye is yellow like the same color of the dragon eyes. However, Marika looks very differently than Radagon as well, yet they're the same person. However Marika and Radagon were also rhe Elden Beast, sooooo what if Melina, Messmer, Miquela and St Trina are the same person
Alternative weird entry idea, the hand grabs us and yoinks us into the egg.
ds1 moment
“Comely” is def a GRRM contribution. Uses it all the time in ASOIAF
Comely lmao, not cumley. Trina is comely, I'm cumley
You either die comely or live long enough to be declared craven
I always thought that it’s not Miquella inside the egg. My best guess is that it’s Messmer placed there as a decoy. Messmer is shown to have a thin almost spindled body type. Almost exactly like the arm. Perhaps his body is there while his spirit is in the land of shadow.
If you look closely, when Messmer stands tall in the trailer, his snakes flow behind him in a nearly identical form as Marika’s robes from her statue
8:30
From what I know, riding side-saddle was a common thing amongst women of nobility as it was thought to protect the hymen from rupturing. This further added to the idea of noble womanhood.
I mean it's definetly considered a more feminine thing to do, to the point where it was super obseen for males to do it. And women who had trouble or hated riding side saddle actually had a fake wooden leg they would poke out with their real one (while hiding the other under their dress) to appear as if riding side saddle to maintain femininity 😂
It’s even simpler than that, man.
It’s because it’s harder to sit in a saddle when you’re wearing robes/a dress instead of pants. That’s it.
13:45 I think you're trying to describe Astral Projection, which I could see. But "divesting of flesh" reminds me more of Ranni's actions
I like your theory about Mezmer being Miquella because somewhere in the game i remember reading or hearing how the people of the lands between all feel compelled to worship Miquella as if it were not their own will and this gets into the meaning of the word, Mesmerize, like the name of the new demigod
You also mentioned the snake in the cocoon and this association with blood are both associated with the outer gods, the Night Mother and the Great Serpent
In Morgotts monologue, he reveals his contempt when addressing the thrones, as if they were all in cahoots, within the shadow of the Erdtree, where the enemies of the Erd Tree reside and weave their plans. The serpent was also tied in with Rykard and these are all red phantom Coventry, so to speak.
Also, before Morgott fight, you can summon Melina and she uses a couple of unique skills; the erd tree daggers like Margit/Morgott but also the Erd Tree healing spell.
This would make sense that Melina is the shadow of Marika or maybe Ranni; being an assassin but also a proxy of the Erd Tree 2 finger assassins, but in Rannis case she rebelled.
1 more thing that comes to mind are the Baleful Shadows sent to assassinate the enemies of the 2 fingers/Erd Tree. So think of it as the shadows cast of the 2 fingers, with light from the Erdtree.
This may also be what Goldmask is actually studying, the broken patterns of light and shadow are like a binary matrix code that he can interpret.
It seems to me that every core story character may have a shadow double
Dude the light and shadow part of what your saying is so so cool. Honestly I never thought about that but like all the outer gods are kinda light sources if you think about it. The moon, the sun, the erdtree, the different fires associated with outer gods. All casting shadows when effecting an object. The fact there is so much shadow and light imagry feels important. Like the duality of it and the splitting of one thing into two also feels like a great explanation along with chemistry/ alchemy imagry for having like duality of chemicals or reactions. Or mixed metals being heated up and made unalloyed/it's untrained, original state in cruicibles. So much like whole imagry and it's divisions/dualities. Like the many combos of merika/radagon, melania/miquiella, the empyreans to their shadows, the erd tree and it's shadow realm.
The goldmask comment you made also is so thought provoking!!
awesome theory no joke
Ranni, Melina, Gloom Eyed Queen, St. Trina, Messmer, Malenia...... omg, at this point my braincells cant even look at all the theories from those and think about it 💀
Imo Marika/Radagon are "one being" with "two existences" possibly giving more weight to the Miquella/Melina theory
So Miquella isn't (but he Also is) Saint trina ,but we apparantly meet her in the dlc, and Melina is Miquella but also probably Saint trina, because that's one of the leading evidences for that, but she (melina) burns herself ,which makes it impossible for Melina to be her
ANOTHER CONNECTION!!!!!
If Miquella is Melina, who is St. Trina. It makes COMPLETE sense why Miquella was trying to revive/summon another Greater Being in Castle Sol! 🤯
He is very familiar with the Rot God AND Frenzy Flame, as well as how to summon AND repel ANY Outer Gods he wants. He learned to repel them through his needle as well as he learned that it requires ENORMOUS AND VAST amount of prayer/begging/sorrow/desire etc. whatever the feeling, it takes a vast amount of people to pray for a wish that baits and calls forth an Outer Being. So he tried to get the inhabitants of castle Sol to all wish for his Brothers revival and promised them salvation at the Haligtree to tempt their desires and make the prayers stronger, similarly as all the Merchants in the catacombs wished for revenge and summoning the Frenzy Flame…. However as the final ghost in the castle states…”Their Prayers Were Not Strong Enough..” and that’s probably because it was never THIER wish to begin with, they weren’t suffering like the Merchants or Mohg/Margott. It was a prayer given to them, it wasn’t their own. And so they were never able to summon any type of new Outer Will and Miquella had to move on to a new plan
It's so lovely to see the atmosphere of collaboration and jolly co-operation that FromSoft has fostered in its fans. All the Soulsborne channels I watch credit each other, work together, shout each other out, put spotlights on new channels, etc. It's so nice!!
Crazy theory: GEQ is Marika’s Dark Moon (Numen) shadow self making GEQ-type traits pass down to her children along with their Father’s ancestry. Melina inherited Radagon fire + Gloam eye traits which emerged with the release of Death. Miquella inherited day/gold + slight Numen mind control ability (compel) while Trina inherited night/silver + slight Numen mind control and GEQ-lite ability (sleep). Godwyn was the Scion of the Golden bough but became the Prince of Death (switched aspects from light/life to gloam/death). I don’t think Marika could control her GEQ shadow self, so removed it and sealed it away to establish dominance over her own shadow self. I doubt she was counting on Ranni’s GEQ traits kicking in since Radagon fathered her and saw shattering the ring as the only way to keep her GEQ shadow self sealed off, thus sealing Melina’s eye as well. Melina is probably more the GEQ aspect’s daughter than the Marika aspect’s. The shapes of the Godslayer’s Sword and the Sacred Relic Sword to me hinted at opposite sides of the same whole. Maybe, anyway.
The split theory kinda makes sense seeing that miquella is the empyrean child of radagon/marika especially with the gold/red hair theme both have
The corpse in the cocoon is Cleanrot Knight Finlay. He was wounded badly after bringing Malenia back from Caelid and made the cocoon to heal himself. He was then taken after being mistaken for being Miquella. I have absolutely nothing to back this up, but it would be funny if it was true.
She* Finlay was a woman
@@assgardiano ah, my bad. I’m still learning the lore.
One thing, though, about the corpse in the egg being Messmer’s: Messmer was alive and waging wars long before Miquella was even alive, let alone before Miquella cocooned himself, and Messmer was most likely locked away in the Shadow Realm long before Miquella was around, so… I don’t see how a guy could be doing all this crazy stuff, only to end up a mummy in an egg while being called a different name.
Reason for why I think this: in the story trailer, we see Messmer burning stuff down, and it’s said that after Marika made the Golden Order, a huge war broke out. We got a warmonger as Messmer, lining up real nice after Marika started the Golden Order, and after that, it’s presumed Messmer’s locked up because Marika wants to hide how the Erdtree was made. How would Messmer then end up in a cocoon, which ends up with Mogh? That’s a little bit all over the place, IMO.
Yall remember how Mohg took Miquella before his tree finished? There are stone looking trees that are usually around ancestral followers and blue zappy spirits, that have the tops of them broken off. You cam see ancestral spirits emerge out of some trees, and it makes me think the zappy spirits do too. If Miquella, while sleeping, dreamed of helping his sister. He could be the blue fairy that helped her seal rot away, within her self. The different existences could be like how when fillianore wakes up, a different reality is shown. But in this case Miquella could be a different person as he sleeps. St Trina is known to have dissappear as quickly as she showed up. I think St Trina was Miquella's dream form that bewitched people with her dreamy appearance. If it was a fully grown spirit with full grown wings, it would explain why it's weird that Miquella cursed with youth, would have an older dream form. Thing is though, the frenzy eye looks like the same as the sleep status effect eye, but awake and pissed. The person obsessed with St Trina may have also been Miquella himself, obsessed with becoming his other self in a dream that actually happened. The briar set has a medallion on the chest of winged beings fighting a manticore. It has a head that looks like serosh, insect like wings and a big scorpion tail. It looks like it emerged from a crucified demon that can pop it's own head off and form a new body going from demon Medusa lady to manticore after ditching her crucified body, to be defeated by the winged beings that look like valkrye. Even the horse a guy is riding has wings, but I think this is the fairy defeating the manticore and sealing it away. It links like she is sheathing her sword around the still forming tendrils of the undying manticore, sealing it and herself away like a stonesword seal. I believe this was a secret story of St Miquella and the manticore. The manticore reforms out of red snakes, and whoever the fairy was sealed herself away with it. I think Miquella got corrupted by what she sealed away in his dream of helping his sister.
Ok, I think it's accurate but a bit of a disconnect. "Another Existence" leaves a LOT of possibility.
I've had a running theory on this for awhile. My explanation gets convoluted so I had chatGPT put it in chronological bullet form:
Ancient Astrologers Meet a Celestial Entity: A civilization of astrologers and sorcerers make contact with a celestial being.
Non-Corporeal Nature: This entity is non-corporeal, existing without a physical form.
Marika Steps Up: One of their own, possibly a leader, volunteers to channel this entity to help communicate with it.
Invasion of Will: Instead of just communicating, the entity takes over, subverting her will and using Marika to assert itself as a goddess, setting up the Golden Order under the banner of the "Greater Will".
Marika’s Realization: Realizing the disaster she's unleashed, Marika decides the only way to fix things is to cut off the entity’s influence by ending her connection to it-through her own destruction.
Creation of Radagon and Seeking Allies: As Radagon, she travels to Raya Lucaria to seek assistance from the queen, Rennala. There, they plan in secret.
Birth of Ranni: Ranni is conceived to execute the plan, either through reproduction or similar mystical means as Radagon.
Ranni’s Mission: Ranni aims to completely separate her will from the Greater Will. She destroys her body and uses puppets for physical actions.
The Heist for Destined Death: Ranni forms the order of the Black Flame (or Dagger) to steal "Destined Death," the only weapon that can end Marika. They execute their plan.
Partial Success: They succeed only halfway. The Elden Beast keeps Marika's body intact using the Golden Runes and takes full control of Radagon.
Radagon's Final Act and the Egg: Before fully succumbing to the Greater Will, Radagon passes on the knowledge of the egg to Rennala, which may explain how Ranni was created. The Elden Beast, needing a new host of Marika's bloodline, creates the egg to produce such a host.
Malenia's Role: Recognizing the unfinished task, Ranni, unbound by physical form, also manifests as Malenia. Her goal: to engage the recently arrived Tarnished to finally end the Golden Order and destroy the Elden Beast. The ultimate act requires burning the Erdtree.
Miquella's Emergence: After the Elden Beast's destruction at the hands of the Tarnished, it retreats to the body of Miquella, another creation meant to preserve its corporeal influence in the world.
Thoughts and insults welcome!
I was also convinced until I saw a new video yesterday that dismisses this theory and tries to prove that Miquella is actually Torrent. Miyazaki based him off a mythological God that can shape shift into an animal that looks a lot like Torrent along with other "evidence". People should watch that one too. Timdiggity also commented on it.
unfortunately we witness both miquella and melina riding torrent at some point in the game, concept art or game art.
And we can't forget that GRRM had a hand in the story. Any one of these characters could secretly be a horse
Ti ston peo kanei o 2j edw
St Trina is referred to as "of the cradle song." It's (probably) the song the merchants play. It's implied that miquella had compassion for them, just like he had compassion for all the rejected people of the lands between, and he tried to help them stave off the frenzied flame, which is reinforced by the needle releasing you from its influence, but not harming you in any way.
Melina, on the other hand, says she's going to kill you for becoming lord of frenzied flame, and never says, "hey man, we all make mistakes. just use the needle so we can be bros again." Doesn't sound like the same person to me.
If Melina is the gloam eyed queen and also st trina, why are the godskins susceptible to sleep, when canonically, any enemy associated with a particular status or damage type is resistant to it?
Why wouldn't melina just straight up give us the spirit calling bell after giving us the whistle if it was hers?
I do think ranni and miquella were working together at some point, given kale snoozing through our conversation with her, as well as miquella's followers at castle sol praying for an eclipse and miquella seemingly sending malenia to kill radahn to allow the stars to be set in motion again. There are also a bunch of miquella's lilies at renna's rise, as well as at least one st trina's lily at ranni's rise.
I think miquella allowed mohg to abduct him specifically because he knew the blood ritual would separate his soul from his body, just like ranni did, but instead of inhabiting a puppet, he went to the realm of shadow, possibly to find Godwyn, or perhaps to gather intelligence about Marika.
Messmer could very well be melina's alter, since he's 1, into flame, 2, hanging out in the spirit realm, 3, has the symbol of the serpent, which is associated with blasphemy, just like the burning of the erdtree was blasphemous, and 4, has the proportions of an Emperean and bears a resemblance to radagon with the red hair, which seems to be a shared feature of the most powerful of marika's children.
What I find interesting is melina doesn't have flaming red hair: hers is a muted pink, which would imply that she's diminished in some way. Maybe the bulk of her power is in messmer in the shadow realm, but she can still act as a conduit for the flame of the giant's forge.
If melina is the gloam eyed queen and led a rebellion against the golden order (another blasphemous act), dying in the attempt, it would make sense that she would be stricken from the record, and gideon, an avid reader, never heard of her. Marika may have confiscated everything that referenced melina and either destroyed it or kept it locked down, like the stacks of stone tablets we find in the queen's bedchamber.
melina can be summoned as a cooperator in the morgott fight, and casts an incantation we've never seen used anywhere else. Miquella was known to invent incantations, which some might theorize strengthens the miquella is melina argument, but he may have gifted his sister with it in the same way he gifted Radagon with one.
A plausible series of events might look something like this: miquella invented the steed whistle, which can only summon torrent, as well as the incantation melina uses in the morgott fight, then melina died, then miquella invented the spirit calling bell and gave it to ranni to give to us before shutting himself away in the cocoon.
What was the point of the whole thing? I think the player is the reincarnation of miquella. How else can you explain torrent choosing us? How else can you explain us being able to weild every weapon and spell we lay hands on? And why do so many people in this hyper aggressive world trust us on sight? Why is Varre waiting for us from the beginning, and why did he seemingly kill our maiden? I think miquella, "the divinity," put him up to it. I think miquella wanted ranni to become the god of the new age, and wanted to be her consort, but in order for their reign to be free of the outer gods entirely, they both had to kill their bodies.
The moment he mentioned st. trina at the start it felt like something excessively obvious just clicked and everything he explained there after feels almost like no new revelation at all, it fits that well.
I think of it like a bunch of planes of existence sitting on top of each other and we're the only one inside all the realms
Let's also not forget about the "tri" in St. Trina, which could be hinting at the possibility of 3 beings in 1 (as opposed to 2 in 1 for Marika/Radagon). So I'd bet that it's either Miquella/Melina/Trina, or Miquella/Messmer/Trina as the 3 in 1.
Comely means "Pleasant to look at, attractive, pretty, etc." A somewhat mild way of saying beautiful. Can also mean agreeable.
"i haven't looked at Melina's feet enough to know if those are her shoes" 😭😭😭
Late to the party but sudden epiphany! "St. Trina of the Cradlesong" - the honorific is quite unique in this world, calling to mind babies, specifically. The Gloam-Eyed Queen "swaddled" the Godskin Nobles. which is another term that is usually used in reference to the bundling of an infant as they're placed in a cradle. To further chase this rabbit trail, and falling in line with other theories, gloam or 'dusk' if you will, is the bridge of day into night; the time when most creatures begin to prepare for sleep (also note 'dusk' and 'dreams' are very closely linked in mythos and literature). So I see no issue with Melina being the Gloam-Eyed Queen, who is simultaneously an aspect of St. Trina. It's quite common for different titles to be given to people based on the perception of their interactions and the roles they play at a given time. As an add on diverging down another path, I've always thought that it is strange that Mohg's blood spells are fiery. Well, if he's using the blood of Mesmer the fiery effects would make a lot of sense to me. OH! And one more thing, but this one's probably pretty weak, but might as well mention it while tossing ideas around, it's an interesting parallel that Melina states she was born at the foot of the Erdtree and we clearly see the spot where Miquella's cocoon was torn...from the base of the Haligtree. And upon revisiting a picture reference of Malenia's arena, the face of the figure we see in the roots seems to have a marred left cheek. Love this game and community so much! Have a wonderful holiday to my American friends and a great weekend to the rest of the world!
FWIW, when you burn yourself as kindling with the Frenzied Flame, you fall into the giant flame brazier but still wake up in Farum Azula. So you could think of it like death and falling asleep are both entrypoints into FA, strengthening the connection between the two.
The "different existences" Miyazaki is referring to is most likely refering to the Tolkein idea of seperate existences, where a single entity can split into multiple entities all with their own consciousness, ideals and goals but who are still technically the same person.
An idea born from the holy trinity, which is as always extremely relevant in any Miyazaki game considering how he likes to base a lot of lore and themes around the history of the catholic church as well as his very tolkein style of fantasy. DS1, BB, DS3 and ER all have stories that spend a long time focusing on his versions of the catholic church.
Just makes it a lot easier to understand how these very different people can be the same person and act differently at the same time.
Why is it so schizo that Miquella is Melina? I mean if their mother can be both male and female. I have been saying this for some time. I also feel that Ronnie and Melina are twins or at least twin spirited. Radagon (or Queen Marika) is her father mother. I am inclined to believe that the whole purpose of Radagon hooking up with Queen Rennala was to produce offspring to help her deal with /understand the Golden Order.
Fanfic in the purest state
I think melina could even be an aspect of marika as she was born at the foot of the erdtree. It all depends whether or not she was around during the shattering or if that was the point when she came to be.
You should definitely do more videos reacting to and/or analyzing other lore videos. Great video brother!
My position with all the speculations lately:
- Malenia most likely fought Radahn to make the stars move, since we need to kill him to enter the DLC.
- The body on the cocoon is Mesmer, the size of the corpse and the ring on the hand resembling snakes.
- You have a point, Miquella used his blood to grow the Haligtree so is possible that the "Lord of Blood" just cared about the blood on the cocoon.
- The Gloam Eyed Queen was Marika main rival so she existed before Miquella, but what if the same way Malenia is afflicted by the Elder God of rot, Miquella is afflicted by the Elder God that that Gloam Eyed Queen served, and the same way Shabriri can hop bodies and "infect" others (Hyetta), maybe the Gloam Eyed Queen exist through Miquella alter ego (aka, St Trina).
- There is the purple butterflies on the new spell shown on the DLC trailer, in the foot of the Haligtree there is a set of the same butterflies. It could be the butterflies that represent St Trina.
- Miquella could've "divested himself of his flesh" trying to be free from an Elder God, in doing so separating his conscience from the Gloam Eyed Queen.
Your idea that we die or take damage to get to the spirit world would explain why we need a new leveling system in the DLC
The idea of multiple manifestations of an entity existing for different reasons refers to a real life occult concept known as emenantions. Taken from anceint Judaic and Vedic concepts, it's the idea that divine beings will split off a reflection of themselves to fulfill specific purposes within the lower realms. In the same manner a human might have multiple characters within an MMO for different mission specific loadouts. The irony is both of those examples are known as avatars. :)
Also, the Golden Epitaph sword doesn't just 'do extra damage' to those who live in death, when it kills them... they Stay Dead. Instead of coming back to life, that is... if you don't damage the corpse before they reconstitute. So, if Miquella wants Godwin to die and stay dead via a 'proper death'... this was probably an early attempt, but it just wasn't strong enough. Hence, the attempted use of whatever special properties the Eclipse has at Castle Sol.
St Trina has the same nose as Mesmer.
I have the best theory, which is probably correct. Miquilla can change just like radagon and Marika can.
When it’s said that he’s divested himself of his own body, I think it’s the same thing that Ranni did when she took over the doll, or the inverse of what happened to Godwyn. His physical body has died, but his soul is still out there somewhere inhabiting a new form. It would be interesting to see if they somehow connect Godwyn and Miquella into one being.
The fact that Ranni doesn’t appear until after Melina gives us torrent is a terrible argument. How could Ranni have heard about a tarnished riding around on torrent, which was the entire pretense for her seeking us out in the firstborn place. She wasn’t waiting for Melina to give torrent away so she could refer to her as Torrents former master. He could’ve been owned by any number of people in the past that Ranni could be referring to. I do think she’s referring to Miquella, or some instance of him at least
Also wanna add that I just started a new playthrough where first thing I rushed all the way to the elevator to access the great plateau.... Where Melina grants you access to the Roundtable Hold without defeating Margit. And the twin maiden husk vendor are now selling summoning the bell and the wolf ash that Ranni would normally give you at your first meetup. So going far into the lands between, actually cancels the possibility of this first encounter with Ranni to happen. So would debunked this evidence as pointless.
But why would the husk sells Bell and Wolf Spirit? What's the significance?
If Melina is capable of teleporting you to roundtable through shadow realm, then why is the bells/wolf spirit ashes avaliable to buy?
A lot of this doesn't make sense, Rodrika teleported herself to roundtable after you she give you spirit jelly.
NPC like Diallos, Brother Cohen and D is capable of teleporting into shadow realm then going back to Erdtree realm...
So many mysteries and really can't answer to all those. Idk just have that feeling that Melina is more related to Rena than she is to Miquella. If the gloam eyed queen took the title of Rena the witch, could explain how Rani learned of the rune of death, and how to use it. Could explain why she even knows of Torrent. And all that sleep magic can just derived from that ancient Destined Death power she had before.
What if everything we’ve seen so far is just the beginning/intro to the dlc. The unseen war and fighting Mesmer as the first boss after he grabs you from the cacoon. And then the rest of the dlc we just have no idea what’s gonna happen. That would be wild
What is Mesmer is Godwyns twin? One represents all holly and the other all sinful. Both have a relationship with dragons (friendship and dragon comunion). Maybe Mesmer was left behind in the land of shadows similarly as the omen twins where hidden.
Another thing off topic. When it is said that the elden Beast became the elden ring means that the enden ring already existed and the beast fused with it to manipulate it. when you kill the beast, the ring remains.
Also, and finally, Marika won. To kill the beast you have to kill the current god and in the end of the game whe se that god, the one with the elden ring inside, is Radagon. Once the beast and Radagon die, the only thing remaining is Marikas body with the elden ring inside, forever, without demigods that can usurp her,a god eternal.
We’ve come a long way from the Two Fingers being mushrooms to Melina being Messmer, Gloam Eyed Queen and St. Trina lol
the side saddle riding of torrent is a representation of miquellas fertility as side saddle was a means of riding a horse for royal women so as not to break their hymen and ruin their purity because the bouncing on regular riding could actually do that. So idk if melina being side saddle really has a meaning in this but is actually more evidence of melina being royalty prior to her body burning and becoming a spirit
also i think melina is gloam eyed queens souls after messmer burned her body in the war
Miquilla being Melina makes the most sense to me of any unconfirmed theory I've heard. I mean, even without all of that, it makes sense to me that Miquilla would have a rebus just like Merika since he is the one highlighted as the most likely Empyrian to take her place.
Miquella does not say "Touch MY withered arm. He says "Touch THE withered arm".
Mohg is talking TO Miquella when touching the withered arm, but isn't refering to the withered arm as Miquella.
The guy in the cocoon is MESSMER. Miquella made Mohg KILL Messmer for him. Which is why Messmer's corpse is there.
Messmer's soul is in the land of shadow. The real and dead Messmer in the physical realm, is the corpse in the cocoon.
maybe melina is part of the tree fused somehow, after maybe dealing with a attack with the frenzied flame by someone maybe like vyke. she probably was sealed up as she crossed paths with him. and that's probably why she would rather any ending besides the frenzy ending. maybe their stories intertwine somehow idk.
Melina is the one half of Gloam eyed Queen, and St, Trina Is the other half of Miquella. But Mesmer has for one half something else, but with the appearance of Miquella. Mogh got tricked.
And this is why I love Soulsbourne lore
Elden Ring lore is often contradictory, generally way too vague and just not worth thinking too much about.
Its funny. It took one close look at an engraving thats been in the game since the beginning to blow the entire community into a frenzy
What if Miquella split his being like Marika did to create Radagon, but unlike her, his self-division was perfect, and Melina and Messmer are the two halves of Miquella.
13:50 as tarnished we are already divested of grace, and we were dead before we came back to Lands Between. Maybe that's enough.
I think you got it backwards. I think Melina is Messmer. I believe we will be guided to the land of shadow to confront Melina/Messmer but Melina won't be our maiden anymore. Miquella/St. TRINA will be our new maiden. Turns out that Melina/Messmer used us in the original game to hunt everyone down and kill them. Miscellaneous sort of awakens and tells who the real bad guy is and becomes our guide in the land of shadows to go after Melina
Conclusion: The Gloam-Eyed Queen is in the Shadowlands and Miquella/Melina is looking for her to bring Death Indiscriminate to the Lands Between (and Godwyn). When FrenzyLord burns everything into one, the two lands merge again and Miquelina re-appears as the New GEQ.
Counterpoint: Miquella has no business being the Kindling Maiden, or am I missing something? Their paths dont seem to be compatible.
Love both your theories btw. Community is awesome!
Interesting that you @agtjake mentioned different "existences". We know for a fact that the Shadow Realm was once a place in the Lands Between that physically disconnected later. What if the Shattering was the reason why the Shadow Realm disconnected? It seems like everything there is stuck in a state the predates the Shattering whith dead Godwyn being very important. Maybe the Miquella's many identities are the results of the Shattering? Messmer seems to be an amalgamation of Sin while the Miquella seems to be an amalgamation of Virtues.
So if Miquella has multiple parallel identities, is it possible that these are actually shards of him, like the Elden Ring was shattered into shards? Think about how Miquella has this bright blonde hair while his twin has bright red hair. What if someone (Marika or Miquella himself) shattered Miquella into shards, and one of those shards contained his heretical beliefs, forming Messmer, who was then banished? Remember Marika told Radagon before they became one: "Let us be shattered". So this idea of shattering people, of merging people together, is central to the game's story. So maybe Miquella shattered into multiple shards, each one becoming an identity parallel to his own: St. Trina, Melina, and Messmer.
My take on this is:
Outside the Shadow Realm they manifest as Miquella/Melina, while inside the Shadow Realm they're Messmer/St. Trina
Miyazaki has already said mezmer is his own separate child of merika and is not miquella
I also have a theory that Boc is Miquella. I mean, have you seen these two in the same room?! Undeniable proof right there!
To enter the shadow world, you dap up the long egg hand
So glad you said the same thing I did about the side saddle 😂 we can be assholes together
22:05 is the same person wearing that helmet with crescent spike in the DLC the same robe and detailed embroidery on the collar that matches the lower half.Instantly spotted it.
Main point that got me interested is that Miquella's needle reverses the Frenzy Flame ending, in which Melina will "hunt you down" for.
The Melina is Miquella theory makes sense at about 65% but its nothing compared to the Miquella is Mesmmer theory which is coming in at about 93%
Me>Mi makes sense, and has droplets of lore sprinkled in, Its like building the skeleton of a story that is missing 3 fingers on one hand, half its ribs and an entire leg. As far as a story goes it does not quite fit and it cannot stand on its own.
Mi > Mes feels more like a full narrative and first chapter to a complete story. I think the problem is that because it feels a bit "on the nose" people dismiss it out of hand as if it doesnt even exist and are intentionally looking for a far more convoluted story to head canon around. Its biggest problem is there hasn't been a serious and comprehensive video similar to the Timdiggty video to point to the dozens of points that make it relevant. Ive been considering doing it but its a LOT of work and my own time is very limited and probably would not be able to accomplish it in a month.
Remember Ranni also said only I, miquella and Melainia are empyreans.Yes messmer is the cadaver,and the body looks burned inside the cocoon.Possibly he set himself on fire after mohg grabbed him.We need to know what a damn empyrean is to understand the game,they really need to explain what makes the empyrean.They left out way too much to even be a coherent story at all.
The argument that they both ride torrent in a sidesaddle seat must be evidence that they are the same person is the funniest shit to me.
Try riding with your legs on either side of the animal while wearing a dress. Good luck. You won't be comfortable, that's for sure lmao
Divesting himself of his flesh, that’s what ranni did on the night of the black knives no? Living in spirit not body, ranni also has the spirit ashes “entrusted “ to her to deliver to the tarnished with torrent.
Ranni and Miquella are loosely related but how well did they get along? Maybe one learned from the other.
What's crazy is the ring on Melina's hand at 6:55 looks like the same ring on the hand inside the cocoon
If you want another wild theory, Tarnished Archeologist put out a video theorizing that Marika burn the Erd-Tree the first time to gain access to the Elden Ring
“GamePlus | the alchemist” also has some WILDLY believable theories!!
Pretty sure he didn’t say it was Marika who did it but yeah
It would be interesting to see us having to fight this cocoon corpse ONLY because Mohg has been infecting it with his blood. it seems weird to mention that fact without there being some sort of consequence.
Miquella and Melina have a dual nature, one that is Golden and another one that is dark and mysterious.
They both are the best clues we got in order to explore what many believe is young Marika despicted in the statue of Farum Azula.
I think Mezmer is the corrupted form of Miquella after Mohg put him in the cocoon. Miquellas body and spirit are seperated.
I do NOT think Melina and Miquella are one in the same. Melinas true identity is tied to her closed eye. We see her in the frenzied flame ending but people forget that alot of the characters have a duality to them. If one character has one eye closed there is a counterpart with the opposite eye closed. I see more commonality between Ranni and Melina.
Miyazaki has already said that mezmer is his own seperate entity and is not miquella.
Mezmer is a seperate child of merika
Maybe messmer was made by miquella to burn the scarlet rot on melania?
I don't think so , he was child of marika and radagon
Just dawned on me that the opening shot of the dlc trailer could in fact be Melina. Like the shot of that mysterious person's legs whilst the narrator talks about Miquella.
So miquella and milenia are like the D brothers? 2 minds, 2 bodies, 1 soul?
I doubt tarnished have to "divest themselves of their flesh" to die and go to the land of shadow. it is likely related to miquellas' being a demigod and needing to separate themselves from the two fingers and the influence of the greater will to truly die just as ranni did.
Crazy, the only flaw I felt was the chins of Mel and Trina aren't quite exact, but stiiiiiill huge potential here, for as I feel, Miquella has been playing everyone I thing, puppet master extraordinaire, everyone has been moved like chess pieces by him in someway initially, and upto and including the player. It makes too much sense. But the question left, is why betray everyone, including his sister, what would be the goal he's after, that is something not quite known, is it power, is it to kill the tree, is it to cure the siblings or my own thoughts, perhaps All of the gods and potentials who were touched by the trees power have lost there ability to rebel, and he's the last hope of this family of dying gods. Idk I love this speculation. Til then, all the blessings other players 😊😊😊😊👋
Lands between is a confirmed afterlife of sorts. You need to have died outside the lands between in order to enter it. The reason why we continue returning to the lands between when we die there, instead of going to the shadow realm or wherever (which is why Miquella and Ranni had to go to such great lengths to “divest themselves” of their flesh and heritage; they had to circumvent Grace. The more I think about it the more I think the demigods intentionally fell out of Grace, as did Godfrey and the tarnished. Miyazaki described it as something to the effect of Grace refuses to let us leave the lands between, which doesn’t paint the Grace of gold as something desirable
Could you elaborate on the Lands Between being a confirmed afterlife? I did not know about this, and can think of several counterexamples.
There’s an interview with Miyazaki from the time around when the base game was launched. When asked to explain the lore reasons for our character respawning, that’s what he said.
It’s also shown in Thebes opening cinematic, with key tarnished like Horah Loux and dung eater clearly dead, then again stated outright by Marika via Melina. There’s also the maiden shield, which depicts a maiden that had her eyes crushed by the briars of sin, killing her, but then she wakes up in the lands between
@@Coast2CoastFlyin Ahh I see what you're saying. I do agree that dying is one way to get to the Lands Between, but characters like Roderika and the Numen and Godfrey (possibly) arrived by boat. So it seems to me that there is more than one way to arrive.
all ive been saying since dlc was announced was i wish there was more of melina. i need to know more about her.
I really dont think this is the case if anything I think Melina is Messmr's twin. He also has a closed right eye. Maybe Messmr and Melina are somehow like bizzaro versions of Miquella and Melania possessing the opposite vices and virtures? Or perhaps they are even all quadruplets. The four of them are too similar to not be closely related and even more so then the other demi gods except maybe Ranni who could also be a doll controlled by Miquella(He definitely has something to do with her transformation).
So if divesting yourself of flesh is a requirement to enter the land of shadow, I wonder if Ranni might be in the land of shadow as well….
Would that mean the statue in Maliketh's arena is of Miquella? When Ranni give's us the bell we get the 3 wolves ashes as well.
The land of shadows can't be a "spirit realm" as the land of shadows is where Marika rose to godhood. And if that's true it's also her birthplace. Which makes it the land of the numen.
I just realized that the person we assume is Miquella in the DLC says "Touch the withered arm and travel to the land of shadow," rather than "Touch MY wither arm," very curious.
I remember when this stuff happened in the Xenoblade community. People theorised Riku to be a Different and most important character in the series, and he turned out to be nothing close
Jake! Hi. I discovered something I haven’t seen anyone bring up about the DLC. Not a revelation but the sleeping character in the sleep swamp I think is the skeleton horse boss we see later in the trailer. If you notice, the scenery is exactly the same but from a right side perspective. I don’t think that character is saint trina and I also don’t know what the hell that thing is lol take care man! Just thought I’d point that out!
I’d also like to add that the head of the creature looks like a crystal ball and in some cut content of the base game Saint Trina also has a crystal ball. in Sekiro Dubi’s recreation video, Saint Trina’s crystal ball looks extremely similar! Something to check out!
Melina with fighting style she could of been one of the blackknight assisins lol
My theory always been that messmer teamed up with mogh to capture miquilla and that messmer crusified is mother merica when he first burnt the erd tree that's why years later we see the golden image of the tree and the Vail been hiding the real erd tree wich is the burnt tree in the Shadow land but only thing that confused me is we tarnished repeat history and we can alter to lord of chaos and I have characters with frenzied flame and ones that arnt because I wanna see if thier a difference and 1 chac that's burning myself and one burning Malina because thier gotta be affects where she keeps her word and fights us in dlc :)